17/02/2012 The Review Show


17/02/2012

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On tonight's Review Show... Tom Hanks and Sandra Bullock in

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Jonathan Safran Foer's Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. Six

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months after his death, a huge retrospective of one of Britain's

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greatest artists, Lucian Freud. Acclaimed novelist Colm Toibin

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explores how families created the great writers. And a look back at

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the most celebrated director of them all, Martin Scorsese. And

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mulling over all of that, this week's panel... The comedian and

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activist Mark Thomas, who's been building his own political

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manifesto on Radio Four. Crime novelist Denise Mina, who's

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currently scripting the graphic novel of The Girl With the Dragon

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Tattoo. Former Director of the Edinburgh Film Festival, now a

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writer, Hannah McGill. And journalist, commentator and critic,

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Sarfraz Manzoor. Good Evening, and welcome to the Review Show.

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Throughout the programme we'll be luxuriating in the wisdom of Mark,

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Hannah, Denise and Safraz, but we also want to hear from you, so do

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get in touch through e-mail or twitter, we're always waiting for

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one polite enough to read out on air. First up, a film six years in

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the making. Jonathan Safran Foer burst into the literary world in

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2002 with his novel everything is illuminated which was later adapted

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into a hugely popular film starring a Elijah Wood. His second novel,

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Extremely Loud And Incredibly Close, has just undergone the same

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treatment, this time a starring Tom Hanks and Sandra Bullock, directed

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by Stephen Daldry. It is the story of Oskar, a young New York boy

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struggling to come to terms with the death of his father in the

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World Trade Centre. Please just a Sandra Bullock and Tom Hanks are

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the parents of the boy. His father is very sensitive to the child's

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eccentricity, creating adventurous puzzles for him as an attempt to

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overcome his shyness and idiosyncrasy. Computer consultants.

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One amateur everything? It is a compliment. Amateur pacifist?

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Amateur inventor? OK, we are all said. When, after his father's

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death, Oscar finds a mysterious key his latest adventure becomes clear

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- to find the lock the key fits as his father's loss challenge to him.

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A quest through New York ensues, taking the Oscar far from his

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comfort zone in Manhattan. As much as it is a physical journey for him,

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at heart, it is an emotional challenge. I am trying to find a

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lot for this key that was in the envelope that belonged to my father.

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I am sorry, I don't have anything about the key, or your father.

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cameos are bound including violet Davies, and now be -- and Max von

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Sydow, as the mute Llodra, who has received the Oscar not. Do you have

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a criminal record? Maybe you heard people for a living? What is your

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Everything is illuminated seemed to please fans, so has Stephen Daldry

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been as successful with this film which was based on a more complex

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narrative? And which delves into Mark, it is more than a decade now

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since 9/11 so do you think it seems a less taboo subject for a film?

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think it has been less to do for a while. For example, United 93, a

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great movie about what happened then. So it is not the taboo

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subject, the problem with this film - and I did try to find positive

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things about it, which is hard - the problem is it is over

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sentimentalised, cloying, the characters are not really

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believable and actually it is vaguely insulting. Did you think it

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was insulting? I thought it was unbelievably cynical. If it was not

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for the fact it was based on a Booker would have thought they had

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deliberately named the child Oscar because they wanted but award! He

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seemed to be trying to take the right of passage film's structure

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of a boy who needs to overcome his dad to become a man, then crowbar

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and use the structure of 9/11 as an excuse for it. I think that is

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offensive. The you think 9/11 was just crowbar it in? I was a bit

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more interested in how it portrays parenting and childhood as it is

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regarded in America at the moment. I think it is a kids' film,

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completely, that is not necessarily derogatory. I don't think it even

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tries to make any emotional depth to the adult characters. It has

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this child to everybody kowtows and facilitates this fantasy, his

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hypersensitivity, his neediness, to such an extent that by the end you

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think this is not real life, this is a fantasy where everybody

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gathers round and says yes, your fantasy of your perfect father and

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the worst day of all time and the fairy tale of everyone in New York

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coming together loving each other, everyone conspires to protect him

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in his fantasy world. For me, that was the scary thing, more than the

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9/11 stuff, this weird, cosseted child he was not coming up against

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the real world but actually does being encouraged to live in a

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fantasy. It is the sense that it is not exactly magic realism, but

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heightened reality say we should not be too forensic about the

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detail. -- so we should. Although you can do that in prose, you can't

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necessarily do it in film and the child comes over as a peculiar, not

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a peculiar child which are suggested by the autism, but a

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bizarre construction of childhood which has a very American thing.

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When I watch American films I think do they have kids there, because

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they are like little middle-aged men. The character is hyper

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literate, but it does not work as well on film. I thought the use of

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this potential suggestion of Asperger's was a bit of a cop out

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clause in a sense because it meant you had somebody who was supercar

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precocious, literate, speaks like a 30 year-old, without requiring the

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majority of wisdom and insight that a 30 Roald would have -- Super

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precocious. So in the end Sandra Bullock can say bad things happen,

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we cannot explain them. That is not a good enough. If it is always

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literally at the Chow's level, it can seem infantile, if they are

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more sophisticated you think the ABBA writer does not have the

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child's point of view. I think a child does a good job. -- the child.

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The thing about his character is it is Berry constructed in a lazy

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fashion. Self harming, it is just like any kid who has an emotional

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time is a self harm. If they are precocious they need a bit of

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knowledge, they need to be naive and then you give them Asperger's.

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It seems reconstructed. Don't you think we get more depth from the

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character, the mute man played by Moxey -- Max von Sydow. He has a

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simpler thing to do because his character is straightforward

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whereas the child carries the weight of being the audience's

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fantasy of what it would be like to be a child to anybody would do

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anything for. -- who anybody. It never comes across as a human.

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is a self-centred damage because the mother is damaged. The

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grandmother is damaged. Everything is just about this kid and his

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needs. But is quite a selfish thing. His 80 year-old grandmother is

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standing there saying shall I come under there with you, under the bed

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because he is having a hard time, it is like everybody is going under

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there with him. This child doesn't seem to care about the people

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around him. He is horrible. Isn't part of this that when you watch

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this movie it has been constructed in such a way, we know it is a sad

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tale, somebody has lost their father in 9/11, it will be sad, but

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every bit of it underlines it and says this is really sad, but this

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is really, really sad. They have the idea of the The Falling Man

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which is the famous image from the World Trade Centre, but they kind

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of rendering it -- render it in a way it is like the opening sequence

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of the film. I found that offensive. It was different from the subtlety

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of the book where the Cha's obsession with the falling and only

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gradually emerges after time. have the scope of VAT in a book but

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it just comes over as really cloying and far too much. It would

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be enough for his father to die. It did not have to be within the

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context of the tragedy. Not a positive verdict, it is fair to say.

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Now, when Lucian Freud died in July, he was still hard at work on a

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painting, characteristically, of a nude man reclining with a dog. That

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is just one of many works on display at a major new

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retrospective at the National Portrait Gallery in London. We sent

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In the first large-scale display of Freud's work since his death, 130

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works have been assembled from collections across the world.A

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arranged chronologically, the exhibition highlights sometimes

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dramatic changes Freud made in his technique. That early style of

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painting was painstaking, and it was very - it was incredibly slow,

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and so quite relatively early on, he abandoned this way of working

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and moved on to moving much bolder brush strokes.

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We have in the exhibition Hotel Bedroom, which was the last

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painting he made sitting down, and we see that he begins to pull out

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from the subject so that you start to see the interiors. Throughout

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the exhibition, Freud's obsession with the human body is dramatically

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in evidence. His first nude was painted in 1966, and he felt

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himself that he wanted to pull out from the head and start looking at

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the whole body. The exhibition also highlights the intimate

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relationship Freud had with his subjects.

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Some people he got to know through painting them. Others, he'd

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obviously known for a very long time - for example, his portrait of

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David Hart -- David Hockney David calculated took 130 hour, so

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although they were friends already, you get to know someone in a

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different way through that sitting. One of Freud's most frequent

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subjects was himself. Self-Portrait shows the importance of him because

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he felt that he ought to understand the rigours of what he was putting

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his sitters through. As he got older, the self-portraits became

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more reflective and moving, and the final self-portrait we have in the

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exhibition, he almost appears to be engulfed by the wall of paint

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behind him. So is the inevitable posthumous reassessments are made,

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does this exhibition justify the claim for Freud as one of the

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greatest in modern Britain? Denise, this is such a wide-ranging

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exhibition, but I thought the early pictures, in particular, were

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really striking, so different from his more famous work. Very

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different, more stylised, quite flat, plain. The ones that were all

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about skin I found quite - absolutely beautiful - I mean,

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really a pleasure to the eye. You wouldn't go walking about with big

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headphones on listening to the whole history of the painting. You

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would just look. I find the earlier pictures much more intimate. I

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don't know how you felt, but the naked ones where you're staring at

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someone's per kneeum or some intimate part of them, you felt

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really distant and he was almost trying not to say anything about

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them, and it actually felt quite cold - an experiment on a surface

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paint pattern. I thought his attitude was really interesting -

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he couldn't connect with his mother until she was no longer interested

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in him because she was depressed. He invited his children in to paint

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them to have a relationship with him. Even when he does saccharin

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pictures - children with ducks - Lee is in the background of the

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portrait leering out. He had things to say. It feels very much he's

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holding back from the viewer somehow, he's always hiding away.

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There was a big change in technique, wasn't there, from the early to the

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later paintings? And he stood up. I like the early stuff. And picked

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another brush. Picked up a whole set of brushes - I agree. It's good

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to see the early ones just to see he wasn't born with that signature

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style and had an entirely different way of painting in the '50s, but I

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just thought the later stuff was amazing. It is intimate. There was

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a quote I read which said he liked to think of human beings as animals.

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I think there is a sense that he's looking at everybody naked as an

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animal whether they're wearing clothes or not. What was quite

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interesting is that a lot of the paintings - they don't name who

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they are. There is a sense he's looking at everybody as a species.

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Actually at the end of it, we're all just bags of skin. We're all

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going to die. We're all going to have mottled skin by the end - it

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felt like a zoological study more than... Not quite a celebration of

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flesh but a compulsion to paint it. I thought it was a celebration,

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actually, because this was my first Freud exhibition I have been to. I

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left it a convert. I adored it. You could chronologically follow his

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point. You could see those points he made the changing in his paging.

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The flesh - I became absolutely drawn into this because the detail

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on it is just incredible, and you just - it got to the point where

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I'd walk up to a picture of someone with clothes on and say, I don't

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want to see it. I was just drawn into it. I thought the characters

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of the people did come out. I think in his mother it came out. When you

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see portraits of other artists you can really see this character

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coming through as well as his flair. Were you as drawn in as these

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pictures? Some of them you're drawn in. They're very, very variable. I

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prefer the more stylised things earlier on, the fleshy ones. For me,

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they're very cold and distant. I read a quote from him where he said

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the head is no different than a hand or a foot. He's not interested

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in the personality as expressed by the face, but as it's splayed out

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and you're lying in an awkward position. I find these awkward

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positionings awkward as a viewer, and they're meant to be, but the

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feeling of someone in a position they'd never be in in any natural

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way - sometimes that really works. The Lee Barry one is really great

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because this was someone who was an artist of his body. Even in those

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most awkward position, he looks like... Absolutely. They're amazing.

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He has this great face as well. Some of them - looks like he just

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had someone lie over there, look awkward and hold a rat and that'll

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be really weird rather than say something about the picture.

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you find the distance in the self- portraits because I thought there

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was a Piersing gaze there? I felt as though I was slagging him off

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because I loved this exhibition. I don't want to sound like that but I

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felt he was very influenceded by the expressionists and always

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denied it. He references Rembrandt. He references Andy Warhol. Why? He

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was the most vacuous painter ever. The interior after war hole is the

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least effective group paintings. I really do love it. But I do find

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he's moving away, and I felt the self-portraits were a cynical

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reference. He is placing himself in the cannon and doesn't need to do

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that. I noticed you could really get close to the paints. It's

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amazing you could literally see - not even just two-dimensional.

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There was a portrait of I think a woman called Ria, and her face was

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a mound of paint coming out. Yeah. Just the idea that painting is a

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physical activity. It's for the sitters and Freud as well.

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gizical activity for him right up until the very end which is so

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important because you have that last... That last picture is

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amazing because it's half finished. There is immense tenderness in

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those. I thought they were very moving. Very moving indeed. I am

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glad you all enjoyed that. The Lucian Freud Portraits

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is on display at the National Portrait Gallery in London until

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27th May, and you can see an exclusive documentary about his

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life tomorrow night here on BBC Two. Now, New Ways to Kill Your Mother -

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not an idiot's guide for would be matricides but a new collection of

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essays by the acclaimed writer Colm Toibin about the relationship

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between writers and their families -which aims to shed light on some

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of our greatest, and emotionally complicated, authors. From feuds to

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funerals, from Jane Austen to Barack Obama, New Girl explores how

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19th and 20th century writers have written about family relationships.

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It begins with a 19th century reference to write out parents

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altogether in favour of aunts citing the works of Jane Austen and

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Henry James. In most cases, of course, the mother is the dominant

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character. You cannot rake me. something! Your mother insists.

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an Irish author himself, Colm Tobin is drawn to writers like the

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playwright JM Sing whose evangelical domineering mother

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deplored his literary success. Then there was what Samuel Beckett

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described as the "savage loving" of his mother. Then of course there is

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the traditionally fraught paternal relationship. He observes, for

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instance, the rivalry between Henry James and his father, who tried his

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own hand at writing, then resented his son's success. More recently

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James Baldwin and Barack Obama have explored sons and fathers, absent

:20:22.:20:29.

or otherwise, in their work. The deployment of inter-generational

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dynamics to portray change also an interest to Tobin. In Doyle's

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writing about his parents, he sees the changing face of Ireland

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through the course of the 21st century. This the band, is it?

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Bet you two are shitting yourselves. Tobin revels in the anecdotal value

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of family. Pul itser prize winning author - loathed his wife, his home

:20:58.:21:03.

in upstate New York and sexuality. Tennessee Williams was throughout

:21:03.:21:11.

his life haunted by the ghost of his sister Rose. Deeply written in

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his often funny prose, Tobin chart misunhappy family relationships.

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Safraz, it's almost received wisdom, isn't it, the text should be

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everything in finding out about writers' lives is a bit of a guilty

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pleasure, but there is a real power of autobiographical information

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running through these essays. is. What's interesting is it tells

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you a lot of people's fiction is inspired by the reality they didn't

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necessarily write about except in journals in letters. Most of the

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collection of essays he's published elsewhere - it feels slightly

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random in terms of the writers he's chosen. I had mixed feelings about

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it. In a way that was my own failing because I hadn't read all

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the writers he was talking about. Therefore you could only connect

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more with certain ones than others. The thing I found more interesting

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is the little human facts - the stories - come through. John

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Cheever comes across as a monstrous man who hates women and was having

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a penis-measuring competitions in college whilst having three kids.

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Those anecdotes come through. Also coming through is the damage having

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a family to a writer. It's impressive the range of writers he

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discusses through the Irish writers right up to John Cheever, Henry

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James, so on. It is impressive. The problem is unless you know the

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writers, you're always going to be one step removed. It's always going

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to be harder to get into it. That was certainly barrier for me to

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begin with. But it's fantastically gossipy. It's very personalised. I

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love - there was stuff like the letter us that Yates' father sent

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his son. "Have you read my poems yet?" What are you doing? There was

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a certain emotional car crash to this... That it takes a very long

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time how to write a play, "dad!" There are great moments, "When you

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have seen my play and seen how good it is perhaps you'll let me give

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you a few tips -" Whoa! You do begin to see similarities, so the

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relationship between Yates and his father is like the relationship

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between Henry James and his father. In a way I think there is a

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randomness to it, there is a sense of these essays vaguely tied

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together by the family thing. It doesn't necessarily need to be

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about writers, just that being nosey about other people's families

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is great. These families are more likely to have diaries and letters.

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There is a slightly spurious way of tying it together saying the

:23:46.:23:49.

novelist is trying to kill the parent which I didn't think worked.

:23:49.:23:55.

He starts with this essay about, why is it literary characters seem

:23:55.:24:00.

to have unconventional family set- ups? It's a bit like saying why do

:24:00.:24:04.

action heroes get into car chases? It's the wrong way around. Isn't he

:24:04.:24:10.

saying about 19th century writers the reason why aunts become

:24:10.:24:12.

paramount is if you have a character without the ties of

:24:12.:24:16.

parents, they can become much more independent? I think that's the

:24:16.:24:20.

first chapter which is really more of an introduction before the

:24:20.:24:24.

beginning. That's the only place women appear in a role other than

:24:24.:24:28.

very annoying mothers or the wives of homosexual men, pretty much, so

:24:28.:24:32.

it is a very - it's not ran David Miliband. It's really about men, so

:24:32.:24:36.

- and it's also about - you're talking about the theme of - all

:24:36.:24:41.

writers want to kill their mothers - do they? Do they? That doesn't

:24:41.:24:47.

really work. Doesn't say that. talking about - everybody wants to

:24:47.:24:51.

usurp their parents. There is one line where he says the children of

:24:51.:24:56.

failed artists always try to outshine their father's artistic

:24:56.:24:59.

failures so they can then show their mum they're a better man,

:24:59.:25:04.

things like that and never allowing - but that is one of the lovely

:25:04.:25:07.

things about it is he makes these random statements about thing, then

:25:07.:25:11.

tries to back them up. I found that really exciting. I found the fact

:25:11.:25:15.

that he would just go, no, this is what I think - he was just very

:25:15.:25:19.

bold about it. And I loved the fact that halfway through the book, he

:25:19.:25:23.

suddenly goes, look, happy childhoods might make good citizen,

:25:23.:25:29.

but it doesn't help you when you're staring at a blank page which is

:25:29.:25:36.

essentially at the core. The play by Barry is vaguely inspired by

:25:36.:25:40.

Charles Hawkney. He had three healthy kid, but that wasn't work.

:25:40.:25:43.

Fiction creates necessities, which means you have to have more

:25:43.:25:47.

complication. I think the line of how you take fiction and move on

:25:47.:25:51.

was quite interesting. In that chapter he says everything is

:25:51.:25:55.

byeography because Hinterland is very much based on biography. He

:25:55.:26:00.

says this is all about the writer. I think it's all about him and a

:26:00.:26:02.

kind of autobiography. It's beautiful because of that because

:26:02.:26:05.

he makes those sweeping statements. He really connects - tries to

:26:05.:26:09.

connect - when he talks about Ronnie Doyle, he talks about the

:26:09.:26:13.

fact that he knew someone who knew someone who was the sister of the

:26:13.:26:19.

grandfather - he really tries to make those connections. There is

:26:19.:26:22.

melancholy there in the lives of the writers destroyed by homophobia.

:26:22.:26:28.

He talked about John Cheever... don't know how they had time to do

:26:28.:26:35.

any writing. There was the strain of incredible paranoia and neuroses

:26:35.:26:40.

and fear. That chapter is about being a repressed homosexual and

:26:40.:26:46.

not dealing with it. It's much more about his crisis and Thomas Mann

:26:46.:26:52.

and his insane family - talk about good gossip - generations of incest,

:26:52.:26:57.

suicide and madness - for me, it's more a great piece of gossip than

:26:57.:27:00.

anything else. The whole thing about you needing good drama for

:27:00.:27:04.

fiction, in a way the writers who honour their parents aren't going

:27:04.:27:09.

to make as good of stories. That is true - scope for new work, perhaps.

:27:09.:27:12.

New Ways to Kill Your Mother is out now, published by Picador. Last

:27:12.:27:15.

Sunday, even the sea of stars at the BAFTAS was outshone by a humble

:27:15.:27:18.

speech from one of cinema's living legends. Martin Scorsese. So, in

:27:18.:27:27.

the week he became a BAFTA fellow, we look back at his long career.

:27:27.:27:31.

Martin Scorsese occupies the throne amongst Hollywood royalty. His

:27:31.:27:37.

career now spans over 40 years from first feature, Who's That Knocking

:27:37.:27:42.

at my Door made straight from film school and starring his classmate

:27:42.:27:46.

Harvey Keitel. That girl is bothering you. Shut up. Don't tell

:27:46.:27:53.

me to shut up. You get out. Don't tell me to shut up in my car.

:27:53.:28:01.

his most recent movie, the Oscar- nominated Hugo. Halt!

:28:01.:28:05.

distinctive directing style covers Roman Catholic guilt, redemption,

:28:05.:28:10.

period dramas, music and perhaps a subject close toast his heart,

:28:10.:28:13.

Italian-American immigrants, which can be seen in the early film he

:28:13.:28:16.

made features his mother and father. You were going to show us about the

:28:16.:28:21.

sauce. You were going to show us how to do the sauce. What shall I

:28:21.:28:27.

say? You're going to get up and show it to us. How did you learn

:28:27.:28:33.

it? Throughout his career, he's pushed his film-making techniques

:28:33.:28:36.

to the limit inspiring a whole new generation of filmmakers. For our

:28:36.:28:43.

first two films, Shallow Grave and Train Spotting, we unashamedly

:28:43.:28:51.

stole lots of things. The voice scrover was based on the Good

:28:51.:28:56.

Fellas voice scrover. Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career.

:28:56.:29:02.

critics suggest his weak points lie in his female characters, but he

:29:02.:29:06.

challenged that preconception with Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, a

:29:06.:29:14.

road trip featuring a suburban housewife leaving home with her son,

:29:14.:29:18.

leaving Ellen Bernstein an Oscar. am not going to discuss my sex life

:29:18.:29:22.

with you. I am not going to tell you about mine. Violent psychos and

:29:22.:29:26.

gangsters loom large in his work, and violent movies such as Mean

:29:26.:29:36.
:29:36.:29:39.

Streets and Good Fellas are perhaps That is a lot of money Fourie kid

:29:39.:29:46.

like you. Anyone asks, you got it in Vegas. Then there is the

:29:46.:29:51.

thought-provoking work, like the last 10 - Macca the Last temptation

:29:51.:29:54.

of Christ, and Shutter Island. Despite the illustrious career it

:29:54.:29:58.

took five Academy Award nominations before Scorsese finally won an

:29:58.:30:05.

Oscar for the departed in 2006. your father were life and saw you

:30:05.:30:08.

here sitting with me I would say he would have a word with me about

:30:08.:30:11.

this. So with Oscar Time approaching and another nomination

:30:11.:30:21.

under his belt, can Scorsese remain at the top? You have got a bit of

:30:21.:30:28.

talent. We have just been talking about family life and I think there

:30:28.:30:34.

was a good example of Scorsese's interest in it with that club with

:30:34.:30:37.

his parents. And you hear his voice and how fast he talks. That is

:30:37.:30:41.

always strikes me about him as a person, this anxiety and drive you

:30:41.:30:45.

get from him, he talks fast, manic, tries to move on to the next thing,

:30:45.:30:50.

do bigger and so on. This varied, long career with this extraordinary

:30:50.:30:56.

range of interests he has. He is always driven on, never satisfied.

:30:56.:31:00.

He never felt he was being appreciated the right way, he

:31:00.:31:04.

wanted the Oscar. So he never sits back. It is that anxiety that is

:31:04.:31:10.

fascinating. It is hard to really remember how revolutionary some of

:31:10.:31:18.

those early films were. Raging Bull was just absolutely outstanding.

:31:19.:31:25.

The way it was shot, the use of black-and-white, the epic filming

:31:25.:31:35.
:31:35.:31:35.

of the shops were incredible. -- was in -- shops was incredible. --

:31:35.:31:40.

shots was incredible. If you put everything aside, this man started

:31:40.:31:46.

out with Spielberg, Lucas, and he is still churning out films that

:31:46.:31:50.

have been nominated for awards 40 years later. For Hollywood, that is

:31:50.:31:55.

outstanding. I think he is the perfect example of an argument

:31:55.:32:01.

against awards. He did not win awards for the good stuff, started

:32:01.:32:04.

making films that appeal to the awards committees, but it was not

:32:04.:32:10.

as good as the early stuff which was ignored. I am not saying he was

:32:10.:32:17.

doing this now but he was making tremendous stuff, raging Bull, taxi

:32:17.:32:22.

driver, things like the Departed swept the board but they were not a

:32:22.:32:32.
:32:32.:32:33.

patch on it. I watched Mean Streets and you know that opening line when

:32:34.:32:37.

he says you don't make up for your sins in church, you make up for

:32:37.:32:44.

them at home. Those concepts of redemption, sin, betrayal and how

:32:44.:32:51.

they go through in a gangster film, you talked about it... But it seems

:32:51.:32:55.

to me a lot of people have been affected by the committee we

:32:55.:32:59.

directed but that spirituality and the idea of guilt, retribution and

:32:59.:33:05.

repentance, I don't think they tap into that so much. That element is

:33:05.:33:09.

strong. He is also brilliant stylist and his use of music is

:33:09.:33:19.
:33:19.:33:19.

easy to take for granted because That use of pop music to undercut

:33:19.:33:28.

something violent, music to evoke memories, that is entirely him.

:33:28.:33:31.

Brilliant style, he loved language and that rapid-fire dialogue and

:33:32.:33:35.

the hilarious use of obscenity, all the things we take for granted,

:33:35.:33:39.

became fashionable in the 1980s and 1990s when everybody was influenced

:33:39.:33:46.

by him. Without him you probably would not have things like the

:33:46.:33:52.

Sopranos, the wire, he is part of the evolution of the series, he is

:33:52.:33:58.

one of the big fossils along the way. A and other films like King of

:33:58.:34:05.

Comedy. Why don't people watch that more? A brilliant film! Scorsese

:34:05.:34:11.

tries out different things all the time and sometimes he fails. Gangs

:34:11.:34:18.

Of New York, New York, New York, you just think oh no! He made

:34:18.:34:24.

Robert De Niro as staff. It seems he chooses somebody and invest some

:34:24.:34:29.

of their best films in them, but I wrote a quote ways of the job of

:34:29.:34:32.

the artist is to make others care about his obsessions, and if you

:34:32.:34:35.

think about his obsessions, religion, his Italian background,

:34:35.:34:39.

cinema, that is what he has revolved around. It is what we have

:34:39.:34:45.

become obsessed with. He is brilliant as a film academic, the

:34:45.:34:49.

document up and preserve of cinema and quite revolutionary in terms of

:34:49.:34:53.

insisting on the preservation and recording of film history, a full-

:34:53.:34:58.

time job in itself. And archives of music, his documentaries about Bob

:34:58.:35:05.

Dylan and George Harrison, keeping the songs alive. This documentary

:35:05.:35:10.

was made by somebody who loves the music and country spat all those

:35:10.:35:20.
:35:20.:35:21.

influences and see them. -- and can trace back. I suppose he translated

:35:21.:35:25.

that passion for cinema into his latest film. He is one of these

:35:26.:35:32.

people that is an evangelist for more than just the power of cinema

:35:32.:35:35.

but the religious fixation he has with the cinema as a church, the

:35:35.:35:39.

transformative powers of it. I am not drawn to that whole magic of

:35:40.:35:45.

cinema thing, the nostalgia, sentimentality and history of

:35:45.:35:49.

cinema a bit dubious, I like him more when he is being a bit more

:35:49.:35:52.

immediate. But his Love of cinema is infectious and if you want a

:35:52.:35:58.

quick introductory guide to cinema he is the person to go to. And to

:35:58.:36:02.

be 70 making films with that much energy, we were talking about Woody

:36:02.:36:07.

Allen early on, if you think about how stayed his films are compared

:36:07.:36:11.

to the amount of frenetic energy in the editing of a Scorsese film, it

:36:11.:36:15.

is amazing. I am a constant reinvention. Maybe it is a good

:36:15.:36:25.
:36:25.:36:27.

thing is bonkers. Are we allowed to say that? Allegedly bonkers! Well,

:36:27.:36:30.

I imagine that won't be the last time Scorsese is celebrated!

:36:30.:36:32.

Talking of massively influential figures, yesterday was the 20th

:36:32.:36:35.

anniversary of the death of the seminal novelist Angela Carter. We

:36:35.:36:41.

asked Jeanette Winterson to explain just why she was so important.

:36:41.:36:47.

Angela Carter was exciting, when she published The Magic Toyshop in

:36:47.:36:52.

1967 she was writing her way past the social realism that seemed to

:36:52.:36:55.

be the purpose and method of fiction after its brief modernistic

:36:55.:37:00.

experiment from the likes of Joyce and Wolfie. Experiment which tried

:37:00.:37:04.

to do more than reproduce recognisable situations, and

:37:04.:37:10.

experiment with language and our unconscious, dreaming self. The

:37:10.:37:15.

novel was back to what it could see, there was not much interest in what

:37:15.:37:22.

it could be. Sure, there was Marcus and Calvisano, but British writers

:37:22.:37:28.

in the Sixties played it straight, think Kingsley Amos, or Iris

:37:28.:37:37.

Murdoch. Elsewhere, science fiction writers could get away with

:37:37.:37:42.

alternatives because they were alternative. But cross-

:37:42.:37:48.

fertilisation was not happening. Then along came Angela Carter, and

:37:48.:37:53.

landed into the colourful world of fairy-tales, themselves already

:37:53.:37:58.

pollinated by a rich, irreverent tradition where women met with

:37:58.:38:03.

waltz and men must take advice from cats. She shifted the novel into

:38:03.:38:09.

this different geography of out of scale plays and non-linear time,

:38:09.:38:13.

she re read fairy stories as though they were social realism and she

:38:13.:38:18.

rewrote realism as fairy-tale. In the company of false, filmed by

:38:18.:38:25.

Neil Jordan, her heroine prefers to reshape as a wolf and live with her

:38:25.:38:29.

hunted off lover rather than a return to social acceptability and

:38:29.:38:38.

the nice husband. Her most glorious creation in the Nights At The

:38:38.:38:42.

Circus. Is a giantess who claims to be hatched from an egg and hatches

:38:42.:38:46.

wings. Angela Carter was a feminist but believed women were more than

:38:46.:38:51.

the circumstances, we could be our imaginations. This put her at odds

:38:51.:38:55.

with quite in lot of 1970s feminist thinking which was only interested

:38:55.:38:59.

in gender experience. Angela Carter's politics included a

:38:59.:39:08.

radical wildness, a woman as mythical and magical -- woman as

:39:08.:39:11.

the mythical, magical and dangerous creature. She wrote as if women

:39:12.:39:15.

could fly, should fly and as if language and storytelling were

:39:15.:39:19.

themselves wings to hoist women over the kitchen sink and the way

:39:19.:39:26.

from our domestic dramas and dismal histories. -- away. This was not

:39:26.:39:36.
:39:36.:39:40.

romantic escapism, but eight re- -- a. Well, that's about all for

:39:40.:39:43.

tonight. Thanks to my guests Mark Thomas and Hannah McGill, Denise

:39:43.:39:46.

Mina and Sarfraz Manzoor. Remember, as ever, you can find out more on

:39:47.:39:49.

all tonight's items on our website, and we'll be tweeting wisdom

:39:49.:39:52.

throughout the week. Sarfraz will be scrutinising tonight's tweets in

:39:52.:39:57.

the Green Room in a second. Next week I'll be here with a stellar

:39:57.:40:00.

line-up including Brian Cox and Mark Millar to discuss the runners

:40:00.:40:06.

and riders in this year's Oscars. In the meantime, at the end of a

:40:06.:40:10.

week that saw the loss of a musical legend we hear from a rising star

:40:10.:40:14.

of the new generation, as part of our new partnership with BBC

:40:14.:40:24.
:40:24.:40:40.

Introducing. Here's Ruby Goe with I keep my gaze on you. I see my

:40:40.:40:50.
:40:50.:41:15.

mood and colours, something I can't When I ask for one thing, the

:41:15.:41:25.

others prevail. When I wish for blue skies, the heavens open up.

:41:25.:41:35.
:41:35.:41:38.

You with Perris just my luck... -- you with her is just my luck...

:41:38.:41:48.

Rushing like thunder, twisted realisation it was always you,

:41:48.:41:58.
:41:58.:42:03.

What could have been, what should have been, now why is it when I

:42:03.:42:13.

call heads, it is always tales? And when I ask for one thing, the other

:42:13.:42:21.

thing prevails. And when I wish for blue skies, the heavens open up.

:42:21.:42:31.
:42:31.:42:46.

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