28/10/2011 The Review Show


28/10/2011

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On the review show tonight, Tintin, as a very smooth operator, rough

:00:10.:00:15.

stuff in the drug-fuelled drama Top Boy, politics on stage and in 50

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:00:25.:00:27.

Thundering typhoons it is Tintin in 3D, does Spielberg's version take

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flight or fall flat. What do you know of the Unicorn? Not a lot,

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that is why I'm asking you. Surely some mistake, Private Eye

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turns 50, as the scrappy scandal sheet, does it still have the power

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to shock. In our name we can all be better, in our name. Modern London

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tworbgs ways, in 13, Mike Bartlett's new play about

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politicians of protest, unmissable or just unlucky.

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In Top Boy, already compared to The Wierbgs the capital as a - the Wire,

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the capital as a drug market, dangerous or way out of line. Live

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in the studio, sitar music from Anouska Shankar.

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On the panel with me are the wider and actor, David Schneider,

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novelist and stand up comedian AL Kennedy, journalist and former

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editor, Rosie Boycott, and Natalie Haynes, comedian and classist.

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We are monitoring your tweets right now. Here is a challenge, who else

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should be on the list of famous Belgians apart from Magritte,

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Hercule Poirot and Tintin. Tintin has greater fame now that Steven

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Spielberg and Peter Jackson has joined forces to bring him to the

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screen in the motion capture an nation, Tintin: The Secret of the

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Unicorn. Tintin began his adventures in 1929 at the hands of

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Belgian artist, Georges Prosper Remi, better known as Herge. Tintin,

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a young travelling reporter was the reporter young Herge wanted to be.

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He reflected the author's hopes, fears and dreams of distant land.

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The world fell in love with the quiffed crusader, 350 million

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copies of the book in 80 languages, adapted for film, stage and radio.

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Now Tintin is born-again in the form of Jamie Bell, with motion

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capture veteran, Andy Serkis, supplying the moves and voice of

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his side kick, Captain Haddock. is a story I'm working on, a man of

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war, triple masted and 50 guns. What do you know of the Unicorn?

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Not a lot that is why I'm asking you. That ship is known to only my

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family. Herge was a film maker in his own right. Most of the time the

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books were like a storyboard for a movie. On this movie Stephen was

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very much stepping into the role of an illustrator rather than film

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maker, he said the technology made him more of a painter than before

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it's taking it for panel for panel as Herge was when coming up with

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the books. Turn the ship round, get me a flare.

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The screen writers had to choose which of the 23 completed books to

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adapt for the film. We combined two books, we combined the Golden Claws

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and The Secret of the Unicorn. Because the Crab with the Golden

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Claw is the first time Tintin meets Captain Haddock. It is when the

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Tintin universe and character and locations start to form in Herge's

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mind and our's. Herge is a great story-teller, the simplicity of it,

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or the deceptive simplicity of it is what endures for kids of all

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ages. Are the adventure of Tintin better told in the original comic

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books or is Herge's hero in 3-D about to find a new generation of

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fans. Rosie, is a film like this ever

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going to satisfy the aficionados? I'm not sure that it will. Tintin

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has really big fans. I wasn't one of them, I think they are

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incredibly male these stories. They are very lacking in emotion. Tintin

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is this strange character, he has no mother, father, nowhere that he

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lives, no apparent means of support. There is nothing emotional at all

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about him. I have never related to him as a kid. I spent today reading

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Tintin in America, I didn't relate to it again. I did go and see it

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yesterday, and I took my step grandchildren, who are 13 and 10.

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Boit had read some of the Tintin and the girl hadn't, they loved it

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and completely got into the animation. They didn't worry about

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the lack of the back story? They didn't. They loved the big set

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pieces. The bits say when the two boats are battling in the sea and

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the big chase at the end. For me it became a bit too much like a rather

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weird Indiana Jones, and you wondered which speil spol you were

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in. They liked it. - Spielberg you were in. They liked it. For people

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who are real fans they will find it a pretty strange experience. David?

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The vocabulary of watching films and superheros in films and Tintin

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is a sort of superher rofplt you want the back story, was Tintin

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bitten by a strange hair-do! It took me a while to accept I wasn't

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going to learn about his mother or father. The animation took over and

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the fantasy, the excitement of the adventure took over and I did go

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with it. It is abstract. There is so little information? That is the

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point, Tintin was bitten by an accountant, the point is he's the

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straight man and everyone else insane. He was the boring annoying

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one when I was a kid. I read them as a kid, I loved Captain Haddock

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and Snowy. He's more of a character? He's very vanilla. What

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upset me is the style with the motion cap tuerbgs and a lot of the

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vocal performances were unanimated, they looked like vocal corpes.

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want to stick with what you are saying about vanilla, all the

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nuances in the cartoons and the dilemmas and things, and the little

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tropes, are all missing? It is all ironed out. Particularly Haddock,

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he's a lot more out of control. I don't think that is disturbing for

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kids. When I was a kid and I met children, I don't have them but I

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do know some, it is wonderful for adults to be completely

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irresponsible, dysfuntional and fail, and be hysterically funny at

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one stage, Haddock delivered that, you don't wanted a dults to be

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sensible all the time. What about the other actors, motion captured

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does it do the actors justice or not? I hated the film on two counts.

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Both of them because they tried too hard to be close to the comic books.

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One, the story is rubbish, I love Joe Cornish, it breaks my heart to

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say it. Joe Cornish, Steven Moffat and Edgar Wright. I love them less,

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now I have made me say it. I love Joe Cornish. In the comic books it

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doesn't matter Tintin is passive, in a film it really matters. Every

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time anything happens it happens to Tintin, he's not pro-active. Snowy

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is more pro-active than him. That is where the motion capture is

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interesting. It is worse, it should look like the comic books, no it

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shouldn't, it is a film, you are Steven Spielberg, how could you not

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know this. I'm still cross, I will be cross at the end of the clip.

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That's cool. Wait for this let's Snowy's a hero. He is, they should

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have named the film after him, and he should have got it. It should

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have been Snowy and Haddock, because Tintin is boring. He's not

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motion capture. He's properly animated. A lot of the motion

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capture is amazingly laboured, and the delivery of lines is

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fatastically slow. He sort of shows how to do it, he slightly

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exaggerates his movements so you connect emotionally and physically.

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I felt some of the background, some of the drawing is absolutely

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beautiful. The rendering of the town is fantastic, and the ship.

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Speil spol did - Spielberg had the enormous joy of the animators

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putting it together. The long books they weren't something like a comic

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you read quickly. Actually you could read them at your own speed.

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I think you get flung through this at such, it doesn't let you up for

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a minute. There is something happening. Actually you can go

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slowly. No-one has any expressions. All Herge is doing is projecting

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the idea that this is this hero, the hero he could never be because

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he was never very heroic, Herge himself, he has Tintin, that is

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enough to get him through the book. The idea that Tintin is good and

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evil. He is an unhero, the thing with the film is the craziness of

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the other people has disappeared. In Spielberg's hands you expect him

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to do something extraordinary with it. You take actors who can act

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really well, with motion cap tuerbgs you cover them with

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something much - capture, you cover their face with it. When I think of

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Spielberg I think of ET and I still cry at it. It is not with heart

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this. What happens normally in a film is you build and build and

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build, this is where the jeopardy occurs, it is very linear. It is

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because they stayed with the comic book, it has to be Captain going

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after the hidden treasure, but Captain owns a ship, he's not

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starving, what is the jeopardy. They gave Captain a lot of sudden

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dough AA lines. And set up a sequel before the end of T we set up the

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idea at the beginning of the show you could give us other famous

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Belgians. Dries Van Notten. Jean- Claude Van Dame. It is not often

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the hallowed halls of the V & A have laughter. There was scattered

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hilarity to a new exhibition about Private Eye, the satirical manage

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zeen has been appearing every fortnight since October 1961,

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featuring some of the best cartoonist from Britain. Now the V

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& A is marking half a century of. During its 50 years in print,

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Private Eye has what can only be described as an eventful life.

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satirical manage zeen, Private Eye, has won its libel damages appeal.

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Ian Hislop didn't attempt to disguise his joy when he left court.

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The Court of Appeal has officially declared I'm not a banana. It was

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bought in 1962 by Peter Cook, after being a student manage zeen. Then

:12:32.:12:42.
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investigative journal I was was introduced. It became the a

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different vehicle. It is a good reason to keep it going. Private

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Eye is the biggest selling news and investigative affairs magazine, and

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shifts more than 200,000 copies. The challenge for the museum's

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curators is how to bring to life a magazine that has changed so little

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since it began. The idea for the show began with plieft private, we

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got a call - with Private Eye, I got a call and a message. I went to

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Ian Hislop's office and was struck by the meem beelia and chaos and

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confusion, and I thought this was the show. Cartoons, yes, but create

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this creative mayhem, it is so far away from what you think a

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newspaper usually works in. In the exhibition are 50 iconic front

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covers, chosen by current editor, Ian Hislop, and some cartoons from

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the extensive archive. This is the Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan,

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portrayed as if he's Christine Keeler. This got the magazine

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banned by WH Smith. Here is a great raffle Steadman in the spirit of HM

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Baitman, he did a series of cartoons called "the man who...".

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Here is a man asking at WH Smith if they have Private Eye, all the men

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with their girly magazines are recoiling in horror at the

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disgusting inquiry that anyone could ask for it. A new book,

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Private Eye The First 50 Years, written by a staffer is the life of

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Private Eye. Filled with tales of larger than life characters,

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lawsuits and internal rifts. With such a rich history and colourful

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cast, can a moderate two-roomed display at the V & A do it justice.

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You are the sat teirist here, David, was it a - satirist here, how was

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it for you? Private Eye is something in my life I have wanted

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to write for and avoided because I wanted to write satire. It is the

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front bench, they give you the weekly fix of funny. Everyone is

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talking about the institution, but it is so part of the fabric of our

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satirical life. I found it was great seeing this exhibition. And

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particularly the time line. What is excellent about Private Eye is it

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is not only funny, great sat tierbgs shouldn't just make you

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laugh, should - satire, shouldn't just make you laugh but your jaw

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drop. There was a piece about the SAS shooting in Gibraltar, and they

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were asked why did you only shoot 16 times and it was because they

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ran out of bullets. It was to embed points you might ignore if they

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didn't make you laugh, Private Eye is great at doing that. It lasts,

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when you think of all the things that happened, That was The Week

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That Was, Spitting Image, we still have Have I Got News For You, but

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why did it last? Because it is incredibly good journalism, and

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they kept that up. There are lots of things incredibly impressive

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about Private Eye, I'm always impressed by the amount of stories

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they have. In this current issue they have a page, you read it here

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first, it is the story of Aitken, tax evasion, this, that and the

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other, which then go on to huge scandals. Underneath the belly of

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the fun and the satire and the jokes and the schoolboy humour is

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this serious, serious getting at the establishment for being on the

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gravy train and other such corruptions. It is great. When

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Richard Ing rams game in he put in the investigative journalism. It is

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about the cart soons and in the V & A they are there, but not there is

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how many different stories they have drilled in to. It was a

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buesful exhibition and the V & A is about art and they will look at art,

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but it was undercurated in that, if you didn't know the famous

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Christine Keeler photograph, and some may have not known who Harold

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Macmillan was, you needed more background. It is such an important

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part of a lot of the humour. A lot of the cartoons. It is gorgeous

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drawings. They had this fantastic drawing of the judge in the Oz

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trial, if you didn't know about that trial, yes it was a wonderful

:17:22.:17:28.

piece of art but you don't know what you are looking at. It was

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undercurated, a lot of people like me were affectionate, you end up

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with warm wet ears, because people are laughing when they look at

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things. There were laugh out loud moments, I had never seen the

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cartoon that bade Barcelona 0 and sur-real Madrid 2. These were

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British cartoonists over the 50 years? Everybody funny was working

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for Private Eye in some way. agree that the exhibition was

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undercurated, because you end up missing out on exactly the

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journalism, the seriousness that underpins it, the cartoons, yes,

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there are ones that are incredibly resonate, there is a great one of a

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choir master going into church saying it is like everyone I ever

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slept with there. They could have done an exhibition just about

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cartoons? You got the impression that V & A are slightly embarrassed

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about having it. It is not listed as an exhibition, when you get to

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it and it is welcome to the display. They haven't put it in the

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janitor's ku cupboard, but not far away from that. I'm not sure why

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they bothered, if they weren't going to commit to it. It is a

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better magazine than exhibition. is a magazine that resonates with

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you, do you still read it and like it? I do read it because my

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boyfriend is a subscriber to it. But I don't read it with the same

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degree of commitment that he does. It has, like Rosie I very much like

:18:56.:19:00.

their kick-ass journalism, I don't particularly like cartoons,

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generally. Is it offensive enough now? Almost never, I don't think. I

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like it when they get the whole, at one time they included a coupon for

:19:07.:19:13.

you to write in and say, I withdraw my subscription. I wish they were

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edger, I'm glad they have stopped getting sued for libel every 20

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minutes. But I wish they were still so strong. When Ian Hislop went

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after the superinjunctions, it wasn't for the paper, but he

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believed it was wrong, it is a campaigning vehicle not just

:19:32.:19:35.

putting it on the page? That is what satire is about. You get that

:19:35.:19:40.

from the wall, that is the benefit of the wall of covers, is that it

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shows an element of the campaigning. I agree, in the cartoons, they are

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funny, but. The place that Private Eye occupies, the exhibition in the

:19:52.:19:55.

V & A is completely irrelevant, but it is this thing that people see it

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as a moral guardian, something that began as an underground paper in

:19:59.:20:02.

the 60s, that was the scourge, that didn't come from the left or the

:20:02.:20:08.

right. It didn't come out of a Marxist belief or any known

:20:08.:20:11.

political thing, it is somewhere that people want Private Eye to

:20:11.:20:14.

approve of them. And Private Eye's blessing is a great thing. People

:20:14.:20:19.

don't want it to be very nasty about them. It is like as though

:20:19.:20:23.

Ian and the cast of them have become in some sort of way the

:20:23.:20:26.

keeper of our moral flame. It is a strange thing to have achieved in

:20:26.:20:31.

50 years. It is a pure form of sature. Satire is the only literary

:20:32.:20:36.

form invented by the moments. went after the injunctions because

:20:36.:20:40.

he thought they were wrong. And he did it. It is pure juvenile,

:20:40.:20:45.

because it mocks everybody, he's the first great satirist, people

:20:45.:20:48.

who are dead because he doesn't want to get killed, but after

:20:48.:20:52.

everyone, it is a very pure satirical form. It is interesting

:20:52.:20:55.

to see how Private Eye is doing fine, eventhough there is the

:20:55.:20:59.

Internet, where there is lots of satire on the internet. It is still

:20:59.:21:06.

so hand knitted. The design has not changed. They have not gone glossy,

:21:06.:21:10.

they will carry on being funny, doing the journalism and being

:21:10.:21:14.

satirical. Eventhough the Internet is on them. It is the time when you

:21:14.:21:20.

were a comedian and you can't go on tele or go on a game show, it is

:21:20.:21:25.

when you thought comedy was the voice of truth and power. Another

:21:25.:21:29.

half century of Private Eye perhaps. Still to come the TV drama by Ronan

:21:29.:21:32.

Bennett, which has East London all fired up.

:21:32.:21:38.

Why have we to make it to hard for the customers, the Feds know people

:21:38.:21:43.

are selling and buying, as long as we don't make no noise, they don't

:21:43.:21:48.

really care. That is still to come. If Private

:21:48.:21:53.

Eye is being grappling with the fast failure in Uganda affairs in

:21:53.:21:58.

British politics over the past 50 years, on stage writers, such as

:21:58.:22:02.

David Hare and Howard Brenton are doing the same thing. Mike Bartlett,

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just 31, might just be an inheritor of that tradition. His new play, 13,

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which opened in the National Theatre in London, is an ambitious

:22:13.:22:17.

contemporary piece set in the City of Dreams, and visions of street

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protests and political uncertainty. The world of 13 is both familiar

:22:21.:22:25.

and strange, the economy has stalled, the population is restless,

:22:25.:22:30.

and across the capital, Londoners are haunted by the same terrifying

:22:30.:22:33.

nightmare. Meanwhile, a female Conservative Prime Minister

:22:33.:22:37.

deliberates over whether to join a hawkish US administration in

:22:37.:22:43.

invading Iran to put a stop to its nuclear ambitions. As the prospects

:22:43.:22:50.

of war draws closer, the emegmatic figure of John returns to the city

:22:50.:22:58.

to preach a message of renewal. He takes 12 members of society,

:22:58.:23:04.

cleaner, soldier and pensioner, he leads a peace movement. There can

:23:04.:23:09.

be no progress without belief. Belief in the capacity of mankind,

:23:09.:23:14.

belief that we can be better, that we can be more than animals, more

:23:14.:23:18.

than selfish, more than war like tribes, pushing each other out of

:23:18.:23:22.

the way in brutal competition. is the work of Mike Bartlett, the

:23:22.:23:25.

current writer in residence at the National Theatre studio, and a

:23:25.:23:29.

graduate of the Royal Court theatre's young writers programme.

:23:29.:23:34.

His first play for the national was last year's Earthquakes in London,

:23:34.:23:39.

staged to great acclaim. Now, given the vast space of the Olivier stage

:23:39.:23:43.

to fill, can Bartlett's take on the state-of-the-nation offer a

:23:43.:23:46.

convincing analysis of international diplomacy and people

:23:46.:23:50.

power. In our name, in this time, we can commune Kate to people in

:23:50.:23:55.

every home, in every place, instead, in our name, in this time, we can

:23:55.:24:01.

reach out and empower them, not batter and destroy them. In our

:24:01.:24:05.

name, we can demand freedom for Iran, we can encourage and support

:24:05.:24:10.

them to have a say over their future, in our name we can all be

:24:10.:24:19.

better. In our name! Natalie, Mike Bartlett takes all

:24:19.:24:22.

these different themes and strands, our emotions and anger and throws

:24:23.:24:26.

it back at us. Does it help make sense of our surroundings? Yes it

:24:26.:24:30.

kind of does. It is something he did incredibly well for the most

:24:30.:24:33.

part with Earthquakes in London last year or the year before. I

:24:33.:24:37.

liked it very much for the most part here. I think the problem is,

:24:37.:24:41.

that although they filled the stage with the most beautiful and

:24:41.:24:49.

brilliant set, Tom Scutt well done you, there is a huge cube, moving

:24:49.:24:53.

forwards and backwards, down and up, lit from one side and not the other,

:24:53.:24:58.

it is extraordinary. Although the performance fills the stage really

:24:58.:25:03.

well, and the story interlock in a twiterish way. You can have a small

:25:03.:25:08.

shot having a conversation, and another pair for another another

:25:08.:25:12.

story will walk in and cross against them, because it is well

:25:12.:25:16.

directed and rehearsed you are never confused. It sets up a really

:25:16.:25:19.

brilliant premise, which is the ultimate urban malaise, here is

:25:19.:25:24.

everyone in the city, panicky and worried and no-one can sleep,

:25:24.:25:27.

everyone having nightmares and no- one can sleep. This is the best

:25:27.:25:31.

idea you have heard for ages because you don't sleep, and the

:25:31.:25:40.

second act it ebbs away. The first thing you set up I wanted and it

:25:40.:25:44.

ebbs away. It didn't deliver did it in the second half all the things

:25:44.:25:48.

it seemed, it was as if it was going to come into some sort of are

:25:48.:25:53.

you by-election cube and come into focus at the end - rubix cube and

:25:53.:25:56.

come into focus at the end, you didn't know if you were harking

:25:56.:26:00.

back to Iran or Iraq, and whether we had any belief at all. Did it

:26:01.:26:06.

deliver? No after the interval, you heard the balls dropping off the

:26:06.:26:10.

thing that should have had balls. It seemed to be a continuation of

:26:10.:26:13.

the conversation that was Earthquakes in London, but the

:26:13.:26:16.

continuation of the bit that people thought was weak, which was the

:26:16.:26:19.

strange obsession that Bartlett seems to have at the moment, about

:26:19.:26:22.

if we could all tap into a collective unconscious, without

:26:22.:26:26.

having opinions and without there being facts, and without believing

:26:26.:26:29.

anything, then we would call mind meld and everything would be happy.

:26:29.:26:35.

But all of the things he opened, all of the relationships he opened,

:26:35.:26:38.

it didn't go anywhere. You have to have character that is you really

:26:38.:26:43.

believe in to do that, don't you? You definitely have to. I couldn't

:26:43.:26:49.

agree with more with what is being said, he sets up something

:26:49.:26:53.

fatastically exciting and then the rug is pulled out beneath you. John,

:26:53.:26:58.

the character people are meant to be emmobilising about is not strong

:26:58.:27:02.

enough. David Hare can do it, but you think this is somebody

:27:02.:27:09.

addressing what is going on across the river right now. It felt very

:27:09.:27:14.

current with the people protesting. You can't believe you are going to

:27:14.:27:19.

be here. He is writing it as he's going along? But the answer doesn't

:27:19.:27:24.

come and you feel let down. talk about David Hare, it was less

:27:24.:27:28.

obvious, he was not clear cut about which side he was on? It was play

:27:28.:27:33.

of two halves and slightly disappointing. Once you accepted

:27:33.:27:38.

the second half I felt it was interesting, and unDavid Hare-like,

:27:38.:27:43.

we weren't all celebrating mass of liberalism, he offered other

:27:43.:27:47.

alternatives. Like what? There was a parallel universe that sort of

:27:47.:27:49.

allowed him almost to defend Tony Blair's decision to go to war. You

:27:50.:27:54.

can only do it by creating a whole parallel universe, the big cube,

:27:54.:27:58.

but on the National stage there was a justification for going to war.

:27:58.:28:01.

There was, even if it were three lines, a justification of the

:28:01.:28:07.

market, which you don't normally hear in that. Only because you were

:28:07.:28:10.

taking the most boiled down versions of a dated left-wing

:28:11.:28:17.

approach, and the most boiled down dated right-wing approach.

:28:17.:28:21.

wasn't real people offering real views. It is like a digested

:28:21.:28:26.

Guardian from a while ago. We are in a state of turmoil, so we have a

:28:26.:28:30.

lot of plays which are contemporary, we have Enron, Jerusalem in a

:28:30.:28:36.

different way as well. There is room, isn't there, for sharp

:28:36.:28:40.

writing about our contemporary problems? Absolutely, that is why

:28:40.:28:45.

we are having so many revivals, like at the RSC, you have Saved

:28:45.:28:49.

coming back, all of the playwrights of the 60s are not bringing new

:28:49.:28:52.

work, it is the all work bringing forward. It comes from a different

:28:52.:28:56.

time. An underlying problem is because directors run the theatre

:28:56.:28:59.

and they want plays that don't really have much couldn't tent

:28:59.:29:05.

because they want to impose their concept of the play, - connent, and

:29:05.:29:11.

they want to impose - content and they wanted to impose their content

:29:11.:29:19.

on the plays. It was like he had Tourettes on it, he didn't give us

:29:19.:29:22.

an answer. Don't you think there should have been some message. None

:29:22.:29:27.

of the messages got realised, Twitter can do it, other can do it,

:29:27.:29:31.

it was little nibbles. It was a tabloid version of modern day.

:29:31.:29:35.

was like believing is better than not believing. But believing what.

:29:35.:29:39.

That was the question that was not answered strongly enough. We will

:29:39.:29:43.

have to leave that believing or not believing it worked. Coming on to

:29:43.:29:46.

something which is a question of belief in the human spirit or not,

:29:46.:29:54.

Ronan Bennett is on a bit of a role, no sooner has its - has his

:29:54.:30:02.

conspiracy theory drama Hidden has finished, he starts another four-

:30:02.:30:07.

night drama on Channel 4. Top Boy is set on the Summerhouse Estate in

:30:07.:30:11.

London's East End, a mixture of gangster thriller and social

:30:11.:30:15.

realisim, which aims to reflect the lives of young people in our inner

:30:15.:30:19.

cities. It was created by the writer, Ronan Bennett, whose

:30:19.:30:23.

previous work includes The Hamburg Cell, and the dock can you drama

:30:23.:30:30.

based on the September 11th attacks, and Hidden, a small town solicitor

:30:30.:30:35.

forced to delve into his murky past. Bennett was inspired by seeing a

:30:35.:30:39.

child selling drugs near his Hackney home. And over a long

:30:39.:30:42.

period interviewed locals, from dealers to senior police officers.

:30:42.:30:47.

Top Boy shows a world in which crime is an all-too easy option for

:30:47.:30:56.

young people in particular. Broadcast over four nights, the

:30:56.:31:04.

drama centres on 13-year-old Ramell, left to his own devices after his

:31:04.:31:09.

single mother is hospitalised. put her in a mental hospital.

:31:09.:31:15.

is she coming home? I don't know. We also fall deShane who will stop

:31:15.:31:19.

at nothing to win a turf war and become the main supplier, rather

:31:19.:31:25.

than continue as a mere foot soldier. Why make it so hard for

:31:25.:31:29.

the customer, the Feds know we are buying and selling in Hackney, as

:31:29.:31:33.

long as we don't make no noise, they don't care. Few of the

:31:33.:31:36.

characters are played by professional actors, instead

:31:36.:31:41.

castings were held in schools, youth clubs and boxing gyms. Little

:31:41.:31:46.

Michael, ten years old, making his money. What are you lot saying, you

:31:46.:31:51.

want to make some paper. I do. Top Boy a dramatic depiction of

:31:51.:31:55.

life in places where drugs and violence are all too common, or a

:31:55.:31:58.

sensational story, which two months on from the riots, and less than a

:31:58.:32:07.

year before the Olympics, just reinforces negative stereo types.

:32:07.:32:11.

We began with the clear-cut write and wrong and evil and good in

:32:11.:32:17.

Tintin, but this is a much more ambivalent, ambiguous drama. Lots

:32:17.:32:22.

of shades of grey, lots of depth of character. I remember being sad

:32:22.:32:26.

when I watched the one when people were being happy about it making a

:32:26.:32:31.

fuss. Thinking this is what British television did in the 1960s and

:32:31.:32:37.

1970s and forgot what to do, not having dramas based on things

:32:37.:32:42.

blowing up. Caring about characters and being interested in them and

:32:42.:32:46.

allowing actors act. It is a beautifully directed piece, he

:32:46.:32:50.

allows you to see actors acting their socks off. The kids,

:32:50.:32:59.

particularly, Malcolm Kamoletti, they are doing things, if you talk

:32:59.:33:03.

to grown-up actors, moving through a scene and carrying it with

:33:03.:33:09.

movement. It respects the variety. I love the very newspapers that

:33:09.:33:12.

like to demonise marginalised communities, rabble roused a

:33:13.:33:17.

response that the whole of Hackney was outraged. This is looking at

:33:17.:33:22.

partly why you might end up rioting or being in something that would be

:33:22.:33:26.

a criminal situation. But also why you might not. It takes the

:33:26.:33:30.

Darwinian community, but caring, a genuine community, it is all shown.

:33:30.:33:34.

It gives people dignity, it is a lovely world he makes. I couldn't

:33:34.:33:37.

agree more. I think it is an extraordinary portrayal of a slice

:33:37.:33:42.

of life that people are not aware of in London any more. London has

:33:42.:33:47.

become such a deeply schizophrenic city. The highest prices in central

:33:47.:33:50.

London are actually still rising as against everything else in the

:33:50.:33:53.

world falling apart. At the same time in the underbelly of the city

:33:53.:33:56.

we have situations like this. Where people don't have any option. I

:33:56.:34:01.

think it is brilliant, because it doesn't glamorise it, it doesn't

:34:01.:34:07.

try to garpbish it, it is very down - varpbish it, it is very dourpb to

:34:07.:34:11.

earth, we need to know it. It is great that Channel 4 have it on.

:34:12.:34:16.

I'm sad, it should be on the BBC, we should know about this. How are

:34:16.:34:22.

we going to change it, not have more riots. But it is not

:34:22.:34:29.

preaching? It is a brilliantly subtle posing of problems. There is

:34:29.:34:36.

one fantastic scene where one of the young lads, 12 or 14, the

:34:36.:34:40.

Gemcharacter, is finally taken under the wing. He's finally going

:34:40.:34:45.

to sell some drugs. He sits in the car and the director keeps the

:34:45.:34:48.

camera on his smiling, he feels he belongs, his dad is around but not

:34:48.:34:52.

very much. He's got a family, and you are challenged, because you can

:34:52.:34:57.

see how the drug dealers are a community for him. When I was

:34:57.:35:02.

watching it and also realising as you say, so many of these actors

:35:02.:35:06.

are amateurs. They are the real thing. It is almost, they are

:35:06.:35:10.

beautifully underplaying it. It is because they haven't been trained

:35:10.:35:14.

by theatre schools to be hopelessly overacting. So instead of getting

:35:14.:35:18.

that overacting which then looks wood on TV, you have exactly the

:35:18.:35:23.

same thing when it was Fishtank where the lead character was having

:35:23.:35:28.

a fight with her boyfriend on train station, and getting one of the

:35:28.:35:33.

most brilliant perm formances out of anyone. They get actual real-

:35:33.:35:39.

life children behaving like actual real-life children. That

:35:39.:35:42.

understated performance, when so often he's actually saying nothing,

:35:42.:35:46.

I think the bravery of the directing on television to do that,

:35:46.:35:50.

really takes the audience with it, doesn't it. It takes you between

:35:50.:35:55.

worlds. What this does incredibly well, which is actually not in The

:35:55.:35:59.

Wire, and it doesn't serve it well to compare it to that, it looks at

:35:59.:36:05.

the dual existence of people. Some of it is young black men selling

:36:05.:36:11.

drugs, boo to Hackney. But there is also a pregnant white woman with a

:36:11.:36:15.

marijuana farm, who wants to provide for the baby. Then you see

:36:15.:36:20.

her by day and she's selling tickets at a tube office and you

:36:20.:36:24.

see her world shift. The character of the young boy goes through both

:36:24.:36:28.

of the worlds on the right and I don't think sides of the tracks.

:36:28.:36:31.

Also when Ronan Bennett set up all the characters so clearly, there is

:36:31.:36:35.

not one character that is not in danger. I find that, I was almost

:36:35.:36:40.

thinking what will I see next? Remember how there was no jeopardy

:36:40.:36:47.

in Tintin, it is all in this. not silly, nobody will die, nobody

:36:47.:36:52.

blows up. Is this lovely frailty. His mother, Lisa, the way she is

:36:52.:36:55.

dealt with in it, and the way she is. Taking something like this,

:36:55.:37:00.

almost like event television, you are stringing it across four nights,

:37:00.:37:03.

you are actually building it up to be something rather important?

:37:03.:37:07.

are making a statement with it. You are actually really wanting to

:37:07.:37:10.

shove it in people's faces and say open your eyes here and look at

:37:10.:37:15.

this. Who is it for, for white middle-class people, who is it

:37:15.:37:19.

actually for? I think it is for people who say everything's all

:37:19.:37:22.

right, and actually, in this society we have lots of

:37:22.:37:26.

opportunities. This is showing that some of the people we don't have it.

:37:26.:37:30.

You made a good point about the groups, if you don't have father

:37:30.:37:33.

figures of course you will cleave to that. It is the reason why

:37:33.:37:43.

people end up in the BNP. Mid- Summers Murder, wonderful black

:37:43.:37:47.

actors, why don't we see more. Before we move on I should mention

:37:47.:37:53.

after last week's show our panelist, cazcazcaz wanted to apologise to

:37:53.:37:57.

anyone offended by her reference to autism in the discussion about We

:37:57.:38:07.

Need To Talk About Kevin. Earl, that is Karen Krizanovich.

:38:07.:38:12.

Miriam Margolyes is appearing in A Day In The Death Of Joe Egg, we

:38:12.:38:16.

asked her about her favourite roles on stage and on screen. It was a

:38:16.:38:20.

great delight to be in Harry Potter number two and eight, particularly

:38:20.:38:24.

number eight because I will earn a lot of money from that one, I think.

:38:24.:38:29.

And to be in something which has appealed to so many millions of

:38:29.:38:36.

people, that's a thrill. Plenty of pots to go around, grasp your

:38:36.:38:42.

mandrake and pull it up. I worked with Baz Lurhman on Romeo and

:38:42.:38:48.

Juliet. I owe him a great deal, the studio didn't want me, they wanted

:38:48.:38:52.

Cathy Baits, she's more famous and a brilliant act stress. For some

:38:52.:38:58.

reason he wanted me. He told me to play it Cuban. I had to blink

:38:58.:39:04.

slightly when I accepted it, he asked could I do it. I said, of

:39:04.:39:10.

course. I desire some conference with you. I also like to test to

:39:10.:39:16.

myself in serious stuff because people think of me as someone funny.

:39:16.:39:23.

So when I do serious and End Game with Mark Rylance, that was a

:39:23.:39:28.

career high for me. I was in a dustbin for 15 minutes, but it was

:39:28.:39:34.

a rich time, dramatically. I'm now appearing in A Day In The Death Of

:39:34.:39:42.

Joe Egg by Peter Nichols, one of the most extraordinary plays of

:39:42.:39:50.

modern times. It is a mixture of hysteria and normality, of banality,

:39:50.:39:54.

cliche and terror. It is quite a tall order to get it all in the, I

:39:54.:39:59.

don't know, 20 minutes of the last act, which is when I appear. It is

:39:59.:40:06.

a mixture of farce, and tragedy. It confronts very genuine issues of

:40:06.:40:12.

dealing with a child who is disabled, critically disabled. And

:40:12.:40:18.

how husbands and wifes manage. It was first done 47 years a it was

:40:18.:40:23.

incredibly shocking. And you know I think it still is. I want very much

:40:23.:40:28.

to continue being an actress, but I would like to be at the National

:40:28.:40:33.

Theatre. I have written to them and have had no reply. I'm now putting

:40:33.:40:38.

out a public request, on television, please give me a job at the

:40:38.:40:44.

national theatre and why has it taken you so long.

:40:44.:40:50.

Take that. And you can Kashmir yam in A Day In The Death Of Joe Egg in

:40:50.:40:55.

the Citizen's Theatre in Glasgow, after that possibly available for

:40:55.:40:59.

the national. Everything is on the website. Let us know what you think.

:40:59.:41:05.

I will be back next week with a book special featuring the latest

:41:05.:41:08.

from Umberto Eco, Stephen King, Joan Didion and Aleksandr

:41:08.:41:15.

Solzhenitsyn. My thanks to my guests. We hope you will stay tuned

:41:15.:41:22.

for Coldseal Group Ltd, Ryan Adams all joining Jools after.

:41:22.:41:32.
:41:32.:41:32.

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