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My Lord, before this inquiry begins, | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
I desire to express on behalf of His Majesty | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
our deepest sympathy with all those who have to mourn the loss | 0:00:49 | 0:00:54 | |
of relatives or friends amongst the passengers, | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
the officers and the crew of this ill-fated vessel. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
A thorough inquiry will be made with the object of ascertaining | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
as fully and as precisely as possible | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
the circumstances surrounding this disaster. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:11 | |
Every possible source of information and all available evidence | 0:01:13 | 0:01:18 | |
will be placed before your Lordship in this inquiry. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
The question, substantially, is this. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
The Californian is said by the donkeyman, Mr Gill, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:34 | |
to have seen the distress rockets fired from a vessel, which, | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
according to Mr Gill, was the Titanic, | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
and to have taken no notice of those distress rockets. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:45 | |
Whether it was the Titanic that she saw or not | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
is a matter that can only be determined | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
after we have heard the evidence. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
-You look nervous, Mr Groves. -Lawyers make me nervous. -Hmm. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
You're a man wise beyond your years, Mr Groves. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:46 | |
You see what it's like out there? | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
The newspapers and the politicians, they're all looking for...answers. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:55 | |
Yes, there's a certain hysteria. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
But we have nothing to fear. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
-So what do we say, sir? -We tell the truth, Mr Gibson. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
We have nothing to fear from the truth. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
You were on lifeboat 13 from the Titanic? | 0:03:16 | 0:03:21 | |
And you saw a light before the Titanic plunged to the bottom? | 0:03:21 | 0:03:26 | |
Whether it was a fishing vessel or a steamer or what she was, | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
I do not know. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:31 | |
-It might have been a mast headlight. -It might have been a mast headlight. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
It was the one that we were going to pull for. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
Before you left with your boat, did you see any other third-class passengers, | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
women or children, waiting to go into the boats? | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
There were no women left there | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
when our boat was lowered into the water, not as far as I could see. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
We had our work cut out to get away with the crowd that we had in our own boat. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
Tell us about the passengers in your boats. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
Had you third-class passengers in your boat? | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
Second and third. A few second, principally third. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
-And they behaved well? -Very well indeed. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:11 | |
MURMURING | 0:04:11 | 0:04:13 | |
They're making the crewmen who manned the lifeboats look guilty. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
They're guilty because they survived. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
What are they going to do to us? We've already made statements. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
-Why don't they believe us? -Ernest Gill. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:40 | |
Ernest bleeding Gill, that's why. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
Three, two, one. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
Jumping ship and running to the newspapers with his lies. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
-I heard he got 500. -And you believe him? | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
The question, I would have thought, | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
is whether the inquiry will believe him. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
It's the word of a dirty little coal stoker against you, me | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
and every officer on the ship. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
He may be a dirty little coal stoker, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
but he's got us into all this. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:09 | |
Oi, we didn't do anything wrong. Just remember that. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:14 | |
We stick together. We stand by the captain. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
Gentlemen, this is Mr Dunlop. He will be representing us. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
Actually, I'm retained by the Leyland Line, your employer. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
Surely that amounts to the same thing? | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
I assume our evidence to the inquiry will be a mere formality? | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
I would have hoped so, too. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
But Lord Mersey, the president of the inquiry, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
has made it clear that he intends to be extremely thorough. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
As he should be. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:55 | |
I should also tell you that Mr Isaacs, the Attorney-General, | 0:05:56 | 0:06:01 | |
is representing the Board Of Trade. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
They do not relish taking all of the blame for the insufficient | 0:06:04 | 0:06:08 | |
number of lifeboats on the Titanic, nor for certain other deficiencies, | 0:06:08 | 0:06:15 | |
and they may try to deflect attention in another direction. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:21 | |
Are they going to try and stitch us up? | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
No, of course not. This is a properly constituted legal inquiry. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:29 | |
The problem that the crew of the Californian has is that | 0:06:29 | 0:06:34 | |
Mr Ernest Gill's evidence... | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
Ernest Gill saw nothing that night. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
He's a gold digger, peddling his lies, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
trying to make money out of them that went down with the Titanic. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
He's a lying little shit. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
Well, perhaps. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:48 | |
I would advise you not to use those EXACT words | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
in front of Lord Mersey, Mr...? | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
Stone. Herbert Stone, my second officer. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
And this is Mr Groves, my third, and our apprentice, Gibson. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
-Mr Gill's evidence... -Allegations. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
Quite. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:09 | |
Ernest Gill's allegations have, as it were, muddied the waters. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:17 | |
There was nothing we could have done. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
I understand, and I am certain your evidence will bear this out. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
-And you have all of our written statements. -Yes, I do. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
But to be frank, gentlemen, the Leyland Line | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
is concerned that there is a move on to put the blame on the Californian. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:36 | |
The crew of the Californian. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:38 | |
The whole thing had nothing to do with us. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
It was the Titanic's fault from the very start. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
We warned them about the icebergs. What did Captain Smith do? | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
He just kept steaming on like some rookie officer. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
And that wasn't the only warning we gave them. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
Yes, that's good that you warned them. I'll stress that point. | 0:07:54 | 0:08:01 | |
Now, you estimate that the Titanic sank | 0:08:01 | 0:08:07 | |
in latitude 41 degrees 33, | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
and your stated position is that you were at the time in question | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
at latitude 42 05. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
Some 30 miles away. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
Indeed. And at that distance, | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
it would not have been possible for you to have sighted the Titanic. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:30 | |
Correct. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:31 | |
If we had seen the Titanic, | 0:08:31 | 0:08:32 | |
we would have gone to an immediate rescue, obviously. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
I have no doubt. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:37 | |
But there is this problem of the ship you DID see. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
-You mean the other ship? -The other ship. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
-That wasn't the Titanic. -Now, you're quite certain of that? -Absolutely. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
I know a passenger liner when I see one. It was much too small. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
There is no way you could have been mistaken? | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
CAPTAIN SIGHS | 0:08:59 | 0:09:00 | |
Anyway, as I've already said, the last reported position | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
of the Titanic was some 30 miles from the Californian. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
Good. And, of course, your log book will bear this out. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:11 | |
Of course. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:12 | |
Excellent. So, if it definitely was NOT the Titanic, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:19 | |
we have little to worry about. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
Er, you also have the scrap log book? | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
I'm afraid the scrap log book has gone missing. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
Missing? | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
But you can't fill in this log book | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
without the contemporaneous notes from the scrap log book. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
-Am I correct? -Yes. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
Well, it must have been mislaid. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
Well, that's a pity. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
I would urge you, gentlemen, to use your best endeavours | 0:09:55 | 0:10:02 | |
and redouble your efforts and try to find it. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
Well, gentlemen, you all heard Mr Dunlop. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
Let's make some enquiries, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
see if we can't find this damned scrap log book. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
I filled in the scrap log book before I went off duty that night, | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
-then you took it over. -Yes. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:32 | |
-Have you seen it since? -No. -Well, where do we start to look for it? | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
-I've already tried and I can't find it anywhere. It's gone. -Gone? | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
Yes. You know what it was like. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
In all the confusion, it must have got thrown away. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
The one thing that proves exactly where we were that night, | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
-and it's lost? -Yes, it's most unfortunate. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
-More than that, surely? -How so? | 0:10:51 | 0:10:52 | |
Well, you have to admit, it looks a bit... | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
-A bit what, Mr Groves? -Convenient. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
On the contrary, Mr Groves. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
I'm sure the captain finds it most inconvenient. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
Captain Stanley Lord to the stand. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
Place your right hand on the Bible and repeat after me. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:25 | |
-I, Stanley Lord, do solemnly swear... -Don't worry, son. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
I, Stanley Lord... | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
Captain's more than a match for these stuffed shirts. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
..that the evidence I give in this inquiry will be the truth, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me, God. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
Are you the captain of the SS Californian? | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
Yes. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:45 | |
On Sunday, April 14th, did you have to stop on account of ice? | 0:11:45 | 0:11:51 | |
I had to stop and reverse engines at 10.21pm. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
-What sort of ice was it? -Field ice, right ahead of me. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
Now, close upon 11 o'clock on Sunday night, you saw a steamer's light. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:05 | |
It was approaching me from the east on the starboard side. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
She was heading to the westward. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
-Did you then ask your wireless operator what ships he had? -Yes. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
And he said, "Nothing. Only the Titanic." | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
Did you think that the vessel approaching you was the Titanic? | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
No. I remarked at the time that she was not the Titanic. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
-How could you tell that? -It's difficult to mistake those ships. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
By the blaze of light. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
About what distance, approximately, did you consider she was from you? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:33 | |
I suppose she was six or seven miles away. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
-Were there any other officers on deck? -Yes. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
Mr Groves, the third officer, was on deck until 12. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
And then at 12 the second officer, Mr Stone, relieved the third officer? | 0:12:43 | 0:12:47 | |
At 10 past 12. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:48 | |
And did you tell him anything with regard to this vessel? | 0:12:48 | 0:12:53 | |
I told him to "Watch that steamer," | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
that she had stopped, | 0:12:56 | 0:12:57 | |
and then I went to my chart room at a quarter past 12. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
I told Mr Stone I was going to lie down. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
A little later, did he whistle down the tube | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
and tell you whether he had seen any signal? | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
-He said he had seen a white rocket. -From her? -From her. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
-Did you see it? -No. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
Is it the fact that this vessel from which the rocket appeared | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
was, at the time, in the position which, probably, the Titanic was? | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
-No. -What is in my brain at the present time is this. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
That what they saw was the Titanic. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
That is in my brain, and I want to see whether I'm right or not. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
Clear it up, if you can. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
Can you tell us whether you saw one or two mast headlights? | 0:13:38 | 0:13:42 | |
I only saw one. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
-You only saw one? -And the third officer, Mr Groves, said he saw two. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
Now, that is important. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:49 | |
That is VERY important, because the Titanic would have two. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:54 | |
If Mr Groves did see two lights, | 0:13:54 | 0:13:55 | |
it must have been the Titanic, must it not? | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
-It does not follow. -Do you know of any other vessel it might have been? | 0:13:59 | 0:14:04 | |
No, I do not know. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
Has Mr Groves ever expressed any opinion to you | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
that it was the Titanic he saw? | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
No, my Lord. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
-Never? -Never. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:14 | |
-Did he say to you that she was "evidently a passenger steamer?" -No. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:20 | |
And did you say to him, | 0:14:20 | 0:14:21 | |
"The only passenger steamer near us is the Titanic?" | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
-I might have said that. -Do collect your mind. Did you say it? | 0:14:25 | 0:14:31 | |
I don't recollect saying it. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
You do not give answers that please me at present. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
Do you now suggest that you do not remember whether you said it or not? | 0:14:36 | 0:14:41 | |
I don't recollect saying anything at all to him that night, my Lord. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:45 | |
I have heard so many stories about the Titanic after she went down | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
that I honestly don't remember what I heard that night. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
Do you know of any other passenger steamer near you except the Titanic? | 0:14:51 | 0:14:56 | |
-I did not. -But you knew the Titanic was not far from you? | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
I had no idea where the Titanic was. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
GASPS AND MUTTERING | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
Did you know the steamer had fired a number of rockets? | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
I did not. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:11 | |
According to you, did she fire only one rocket? | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
Only one rocket. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
Have you never heard from other officers that she fired a number of rockets? | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
-Since. -When did you hear that? -The next day. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:22 | |
-Who told you? -Mr Stone. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
What did he say? | 0:15:24 | 0:15:25 | |
He said she had fired several rockets in his watch. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:30 | |
My lord, I think it is very desirable | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
that the other witnesses from the Californian | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
should be out of court while this witness gives evidence. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
Where are the witnesses from the Californian? | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
Well, gentlemen, I think you'd better leave the court at present. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
My God, they're giving the captain a right grilling, aren't they? | 0:16:05 | 0:16:09 | |
Mr Stone, where are you going? | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
It's not right. What do lawyers know about the sea? | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
About as much as we know about the law. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
We should put them in a bloody ice field. See how they like it. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
-Where's Mr Stone gone? -Washroom, I think. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
He was in a right hurry. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
Must've been holding it in a while. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
We were dealing with the rockets. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
Captain Lord, you had never been in ice before? | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
Not in field ice, no. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
You were treating the ice, so to speak, with great respect | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
and behaved with great caution with regard to it. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
I was treating it with every respect. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
Was that the reason, perhaps, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
why you were not so inquisitive as to the rocket | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
as you might otherwise have been? | 0:17:10 | 0:17:12 | |
No, that had nothing to do with it. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
Do you consider it reasonable, seeing you had very little experience of ice, | 0:17:14 | 0:17:19 | |
to go below to the chart room and lie there? | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
Perfectly reasonable. I was looking after my own ship. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:26 | |
Captain Lord, you said earlier, "I heard of one rocket. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
"I did not see it fired." And you did nothing further. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:35 | |
I did nothing further myself. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
I remained in my chart room. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
This rocket, it must have been a distress signal, mustn't it? | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
If it had been a distress signal, my second officer, Mr Stone, | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
would have informed me. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:48 | |
But Mr Stone did. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:50 | |
He sent Gibson, the apprentice, down to inform you. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
So I understand. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
But you know perfectly well that he came. | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
-I know now. -Did you know then? -I did not. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
I was asleep. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:02 | |
Yes, but you were not asleep, at least I suppose not, | 0:18:02 | 0:18:07 | |
when you said to Gibson, "What is it?" | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
I was wakened by the opening of the door, the banging of the door. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
These are answers that do not do you the least good. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
Did Mr Stone send Gibson to report to you at any time? | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
He told me afterwards that he had done so. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
And did you not enquire whether they were all white rockets? | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
I do not know. I was asleep. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
Think. This is a very important matter. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:37 | |
It is much better to tell us what happened, Captain. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
He came to the door, I understand. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
I have spoken very closely to him since. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
He said that I opened my eyes and said, "What is it?" | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
He delivered the message and then I asked the time. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
And then I believe he said that I asked him | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
if there were any colours in the light. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
Is he telling the truth? | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
I do not know. I don't doubt it for a moment. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
Just think. You say you do not doubt it for a moment. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
Do you see what that means? | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
It means that the boy did go to the chart room to you, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
he did tell you about the rockets from the ship, | 0:19:11 | 0:19:14 | |
you asked him whether they were white rockets and told him to report | 0:19:14 | 0:19:17 | |
if anything further occurred. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
So he said. That is what he said. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
Have you any reason to doubt it? | 0:19:22 | 0:19:23 | |
I was very likely half-awake. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
I have no recollection of Gibson saying anything to me at all that morning. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
Why did you enquire whether they were white rockets? | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
Well, I suppose this is something to do with | 0:19:34 | 0:19:36 | |
whether or not they were company signals. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
Do just think. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:39 | |
Company signals usually have some colour in them. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
So that if they were white, | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
it would make it quite plain to you that they were distress signals? | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
No, not necessarily. Some companies use white. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
Really do try to do yourself justice. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
I am trying to do my best. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
MUTTERING AROUND COURTROOM | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
I must ask you something more. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
Do you remember Mr Stone reporting at 2:40 that morning through the tube? | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
I do not. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
Listen to this. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
This is Mr Stone's statement. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:12 | |
He report at 2:40 through the tube and told you that the steamer | 0:20:12 | 0:20:17 | |
had disappeared bearing southwest half-west. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:20 | |
Do you remember that? | 0:20:20 | 0:20:21 | |
I do not remember it. He has told me that since. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
Have you any reason to doubt it? | 0:20:25 | 0:20:26 | |
-I do not know anything at all about it. -Listen to this. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
"The captain again asked me | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
"if I was sure there was no colours in the light that had been seen." | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
-Do you remember that? -I do not. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
And that he, Mr Stone, assured you they were white lights. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:42 | |
He has told me all of this since | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
but I have not the slightest recollection | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
of anything happening that way. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
-You have no reason to doubt it? -If he's telling the truth I do not. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
They're taking a long time with the captain. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
-They're just being thorough. -Thorough? | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
They're making out like it was our fault. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
They're trying to make us the scapegoat. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
-Everyone knows it was Captain Smith's fault. -The captain of the Titanic is dead. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:49 | |
Dead men don't make good scapegoats. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
Is there any reference in your log | 0:21:56 | 0:21:58 | |
to your steamer having seen these rockets? | 0:21:58 | 0:22:00 | |
-No, sir. -Or this mysterious ship that was not the Titanic? | 0:22:00 | 0:22:05 | |
No, sir. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:06 | |
Is it not usual to record these things in the log? | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
We never realised what these rockets were, my lord. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
If they'd been distress rockets then, yes, | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
we would have entered them in the log. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
But the next morning you knew that the Titanic had gone down. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:20 | |
-Yes. -Did you make no record then in your log of the signals you'd seen? | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
-No. -Why not? | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
We never took them to be distress rockets. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:30 | |
Do you mean to say nobody on your ship supposed that they might be distress signals? | 0:22:30 | 0:22:35 | |
The second officer, the man in charge of the watch, | 0:22:35 | 0:22:42 | |
said most emphatically that they were NOT distress rockets. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:47 | |
GASPS AROUND THE COURTROOM | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
Did you question Mr Stone as to why you had not been called? | 0:22:55 | 0:23:01 | |
I did. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:02 | |
What was his explanation to you? | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
He said that he had sent Gibson down | 0:23:05 | 0:23:06 | |
and that Gibson had told him I was awake | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
and that I had said, "All right, let me know if anything is wanted." | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
I was surprised that he hadn't called me out, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
considering rockets had been fired. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
He said if they had been distress rockets | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
he would most certainly have called me himself. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
But he was not a little bit worried about it at all. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:27 | |
And it was his view that they were not distress rockets? | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
That was apparently his view. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
MUTTERING | 0:23:35 | 0:23:37 | |
Mr Stone. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
Captain...I didn't expect to see you. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:53 | |
I know they want to keep us apart | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
but they can't stop me going to the washroom. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:57 | |
Dunlop was right. It's a witch-hunt. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
They're trying to pin the blame on us. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
Us? | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
When they ask about the rockets, | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
I should warn you that I said you only told me | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
about the one white rocket that wasn't a distress signal. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
-But, sir, I told you about the other rockets. -I was asleep. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
But it's in my statement, sir. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
I know you SAY you told me but I was asleep. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
But Gibson went down and told you, he went into the chart room. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
So he says. I didn't hear him. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
"When Pilate saw he could prevail nothing but rather a tumult was made. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:32 | |
"He took water and washed his hands saying, | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
"I am innocent of the blood of this just person." | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
You never struck me as a man steeped in the Bible, Stone. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
Oh, I'm full of surprises, me, sir. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
I want to know what you were saying about us in there. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
-Washing your hands of us, were you? -You're forgetting yourself, Mr Stone. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
The captain is supposed to look out for his crew. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
Last man to leave the ship and all that. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
And what boy's own comic did you read that in? | 0:24:54 | 0:24:56 | |
I thought you were a man of the world, Stone, | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
not some dewy-eyed apprentice like Gibson. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
But, sir, I told you about the rockets. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
Forget the damned rockets. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
You were the senior officer on deck. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
-It was your responsibility. -My responsibility? | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
-You never told me that the ship was in distress. -I didn't know... | 0:25:14 | 0:25:18 | |
Meantime the Titanic sank, Mr Stone. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:20 | |
Well, if I'm to be blamed, I'm dragging you down with me. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
Why did you stay below decks? Why could you not give any orders? | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
I was asleep. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:29 | |
-Oh, is that what they call it now? -Be careful, Stone. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
You say you never sup at sea but did you that night? Did you? | 0:25:32 | 0:25:36 | |
I'm not going to dignify that with a response. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:41 | |
The fact is that if the rockets you saw that night were distress rockets, | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
you should have woken me no matter what. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
-But I told... -If our positions were reversed, | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
I would have dragged you from the chart room. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
So, what, I'm to be blamed, is that it? | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
Oh, think, Stone! | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
The point is not that rockets were fired | 0:25:59 | 0:26:01 | |
but whether they were distress rockets. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
If they were not distress rockets, | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
there was no need for you to do anything. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
And no need for you to inform me. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
I see, sir. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:15 | |
You're a good officer, Stone. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
Now pull yourself together, man. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
Yes, sir. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:26 | |
On the night of the 14th April, was it your watch from 12 to 4? | 0:26:38 | 0:26:44 | |
Yes. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
Did Mr Groves make any communication to you about the steamer when you relieved him? | 0:26:46 | 0:26:51 | |
He told me he had called her up on the Morse lamp and got no answer. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
After a time, did you make any communication to the captain? | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
-Yes. -How? -By means of the speaking tube. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:01 | |
What did you communicate? | 0:27:01 | 0:27:03 | |
I communicated that I had seen white lights in the sky | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
in the direction of the other steamer | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
which I took to be white rockets. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
-How many more did you see? -I saw four more then. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
In quick succession? | 0:27:15 | 0:27:16 | |
At intervals of about three or four minutes. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
You saw five rockets go up in fairly quick succession. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
What did you think at the time that they meant? | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
Well, I knew they must be signals of some sort. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
Of what sort did you think? | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
-I did not know at the time. -Now, try to be frank. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
I am trying. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:37 | |
If you try, you will succeed. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
What did you think those rockets were going up at three to four minute intervals were for? | 0:27:40 | 0:27:46 | |
I just took them as white rockets and informed the captain | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
and left him to judge. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:50 | |
You mean to say that you didn't think for yourself? | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
Did you think that they were distress signals? | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
No. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:03 | |
MUTTERING AROUND THE COURTROOM Did that not occur to you? | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
-It did not occur to me at the time. -When DID it occur to you? | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
After I had heard about the Titanic going down. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
So, throwing your mind back, | 0:28:12 | 0:28:13 | |
you thought that they WERE distress signals? | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
I thought they possibly might have been distress signals. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
From the Titanic. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
Not necessarily. They might have been from some other steamer. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
I did not think that vessel was the Titanic. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
You communicated these facts to the captain? | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
Yes, through the speaking tube. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
What was his answer? | 0:28:32 | 0:28:33 | |
He asked me, "Are they company signals?" | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
What was your answer? | 0:28:36 | 0:28:37 | |
I said, "I do not know but to me they appear to be white rockets." | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
Did the captain tell you that you were to report to him any news | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
and give him any information that you'd got? | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
When I received more information to send Mr Gibson down with it. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
-After Mr Gibson had come did you see more rockets? -Yes. -How many? | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
Three. In the direction of this steamer. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
-In quick succession? -About the same period as before. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:02 | |
Did anything pass between you and Gibson when those rockets went up? | 0:29:02 | 0:29:06 | |
He remarked to me once that he did not think they were being sent up for fun. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
And I quite agreed with him. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
Did either Gibson suggest to you or you suggest to Gibson | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
that that ship over there is in trouble | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
and might require assistance? | 0:29:16 | 0:29:17 | |
I made no remark about that at all. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
About the ship being in distress the whole time. | 0:29:19 | 0:29:22 | |
Did it never occur to you? | 0:29:24 | 0:29:25 | |
It did not occur to me after what the captain said. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
He emphasised the fact about company signals. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
Wait. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:33 | |
You did not think that they were company signals? | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
No. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:39 | |
You did not think that they were being sent up for fun? | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
-No. -WHAT did you think? | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
I just thought they were white rockets, that is all. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
HE TUTS | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
When you saw her disappear, | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
did you think that something had happened to her? | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
No, nothing except that she was steaming away. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
In view of the fact that this vessel had been sending up rockets, | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
did you not think at the time that this ship was in distress? | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
-No. -It never occurred to you? -It did not occur to me | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
because if there had been any grounds for supposing the ship | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
would have been in distress, the captain would have expressed it to me. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
Never mind about the captain. You were being asked about what you thought yourself. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:25 | |
Do you mean to tell us that neither you nor Gibson expressed | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
any opinion that there was something wrong with that ship? | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
-No. Not wrong with the ship. -You want me to believe that notwithstanding those rockets, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:37 | |
neither you nor Gibson thought there anything wrong on board that ship? | 0:30:37 | 0:30:41 | |
-Yes. -You mean to tell His Lordship that you did not know | 0:30:41 | 0:30:45 | |
that the throwing up of rockets or shells, throwing stars of any colour | 0:30:45 | 0:30:49 | |
or description, fired one at a time at short intervals | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
is the proper method for signalling distress at night? | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
Yes, that is the way it is always done, as far as I know. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
Is not that exactly what was happening? | 0:31:00 | 0:31:04 | |
The very thing was happening that you knew indicated distress? | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
I knew that rockets fired at short intervals, one at a time, meant distress signals, yes. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:14 | |
Do not speak generally. On that very night, you knew, did you not, when you saw | 0:31:14 | 0:31:19 | |
-those rockets being sent up that they were signals of distress? -No. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:24 | |
Now, do think about what you are saying. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
You have just told me that what you saw from that steamer was exactly | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
what you had been taught to understand were signals of distress. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
-You told me so! -Yes. -Well, is it true? | 0:31:34 | 0:31:39 | |
It is true that similar lights are distress signals, yes. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
And you had seen them from that steamer! | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
A steamer that is in distress does not steam away from you, M'Lord. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
Judging from the appearance of the lights, | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
could she have possibly been the Titanic, in your opinion? | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
Not by any means. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
Had you heard of any other steamer | 0:32:12 | 0:32:15 | |
-that was in the neighbourhood at that time? -No. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:18 | |
-But you knew the Titanic was there? -Yes. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:22 | |
They've called lunch. So I will see you gentlemen later. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
Chin up, Gibson. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
Chin up? Did you see what they did to Mr Stone? | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
They gave him a right going over. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
I hope to God they don't go after me like that. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:57 | |
All you have to do is say what you saw. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
Me and Mr Stone were on the bridge, | 0:33:01 | 0:33:03 | |
we didn't know what those rockets were. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
-Then tell them that. -These lawyers, they twist things. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:11 | |
That's what they're paid to do. Very well paid. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:16 | |
-I'm not up to it, Mr Groves. I know I'm not up to it. -Steady on, Gibson. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:21 | |
You saw the rockets and you went down and informed the captain. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:25 | |
That's true, isn't it? | 0:33:25 | 0:33:27 | |
Mr Lee tells me you're all off the Californian. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:31 | |
Yes, that's right. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
That is for my husband, sir! | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
He went down on the Titanic. A good man. And a fine officer. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:42 | |
He remained on his ship. He gave his life to save as many as he could. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
He did his duty. Why didn't you do yours? | 0:33:46 | 0:33:50 | |
Why didn't you do yours? | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
This is not the way, Margaret. I'm sorry, sir. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:55 | |
Come on, Margaret. We'll get someone to take you home. | 0:33:55 | 0:34:00 | |
I just came to wish Gibson luck. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
How is our young friend? | 0:34:20 | 0:34:23 | |
Nervous as hell. He's gone to the toilet for the 25th time since lunch. | 0:34:23 | 0:34:29 | |
He'll be all right. He'll not let us down. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
You did well in there. It mustn't be easy. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
You'll find out soon enough. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
-Pleased with yourself? -What? | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
Are you happy with what you had to say? | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
If you have something to say to me, Mr Groves, | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
have the courage to say it plainly. | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
You know the truth. We all do. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:55 | |
The truth is the ship we saw was not the Titanic. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
She fired up eight rockets, the same as the Titanic. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:02 | |
-Coincidence. It was another ship. -These were distress rockets. Why didn't you do...something? | 0:35:02 | 0:35:09 | |
The captain gives the orders pertaining to our ship, Mr Groves. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
We were in the middle of an ice field. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
-We could have gone down, like the Titanic. -We could have saved them. -Nonsense. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:20 | |
-We were too far away. -Were we? -What do you mean? | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
The scrap log book will show exactly where we were. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
It would show the whole world we're telling the truth. What happened to it? | 0:35:28 | 0:35:33 | |
-I don't know. -I don't believe you. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
Take care what you are saying, Mr Groves. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
I do care, Mr Stone. I care a great deal! | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
-Were you an apprentice on the Californian? -Yes. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
On this night, between Sunday the 14th and Monday the 15th, | 0:36:02 | 0:36:07 | |
what time did you go on watch? | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
-12 o'clock midnight. -Which of the officers was in charge? | 0:36:09 | 0:36:14 | |
-Mr Stone. -Did you form any view as to how far away this ship was? | 0:36:14 | 0:36:19 | |
From four to seven miles. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:21 | |
Did Mr Stone say anything to you about this ship? | 0:36:21 | 0:36:26 | |
That she had fired five rockets. He told me he'd reported it to the captain. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:31 | |
Did he tell you what the captain had instructed him to do? | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
-To call her up on Morse light. -What had been the result? | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
She had not answered him, but had fired more rockets. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:42 | |
-Did you see her fire these rockets? -I saw three rockets. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:48 | |
-What colour rockets were they? -White ones. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
Did you think yourself that there was anything wrong? | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
We had been talking about it together. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
I should very much like you to tell me what you had been saying to the Second Officer. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:04 | |
He remarked to me | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
that a ship wasn't going to fire rockets at sea for nothing. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:11 | |
A ship was not going to fire rockets at sea for nothing. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:18 | |
-Yes. -I daresay you agreed with him. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
-Yes. -Do I understand from you that Mr Stone came to the conclusion | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
that this was a ship in distress? | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
No, sir. Not exactly. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
What do you mean by "not exactly"? | 0:37:31 | 0:37:35 | |
-Mr Stone said a ship does not fire rockets at night for nothing. -Yes. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:41 | |
Does not that convey to you in his opinion this ship was in distress? | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
-Not exactly in distress, sir. -What then? | 0:37:45 | 0:37:48 | |
-That everything was not all right with her. -In trouble of some sort? | 0:37:48 | 0:37:53 | |
-Yes. -Did you know when the rockets were being sent up that they were being sent up as danger signals? | 0:37:53 | 0:38:00 | |
-No. -What did you think the rockets were being up for? | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
I thought they were some sort of private signal. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:07 | |
Who told you they were private signals? | 0:38:07 | 0:38:10 | |
Nobody told me. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
-Had you ever seen private signals of this kind? -No. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:21 | |
What took place after that between you and Mr Stone? | 0:38:21 | 0:38:25 | |
About twenty minutes past one, Mr Stone remarked to me | 0:38:25 | 0:38:31 | |
that she was slowly steaming away towards the southwest. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
Then Mr Stone remarked to me... | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
"Look at her now, she looks very queer in the water. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
"Her lights look queer." | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
-Did you look at her then through your glasses? -Yes. -What did you see? | 0:38:47 | 0:38:53 | |
That she seemed to be heavily listed to the starboard. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
She seemed to have a list and you thought to starboard? | 0:38:57 | 0:39:01 | |
Yes. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
Did you call Mr Stone's attention to this? | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
Yes. He remarked it to me at the time. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
He told me to look through the glasses at it. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
He told you to look through the glasses at that very thing? | 0:39:12 | 0:39:16 | |
-Yes. -When did you first make that statement? | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
The statement you've just made, that you were told to look through the glasses at this list. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:25 | |
When did you first tell anybody that? | 0:39:25 | 0:39:28 | |
This is the first time. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
You never told anybody until now in the witness box? | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
I have spoken to Mr Stone about it since. That is all. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:41 | |
Have you a clear recollection of that? | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
-Yes. -Just tell us. You say you spoke to Mr Stone about it. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:50 | |
-What did he tell you? -He said, "Look at her now, Gibson. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:55 | |
"Her lights look queer." | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
I told him... "She seems rather to have a big side out of the water." | 0:39:57 | 0:40:03 | |
We were talking about it all the time, sir. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
Until five minutes past two, when she disappeared. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
-What were the orders that Mr Stone gave you when she disappeared? -"Call the captain and tell him | 0:40:10 | 0:40:15 | |
"the ship has disappeared in the southwest. And she's fired altogether eight rockets." | 0:40:15 | 0:40:21 | |
-Did you report that to the captain? -Yes. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:25 | |
-Where did you go? -Into the chart room. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
-Did you find the captain there? -Yes. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
-Was he awake? -Yes, sir. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:35 | |
Did you give him the report that you were ordered to give him? | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
-Yes. -What did the captain say? | 0:40:39 | 0:40:44 | |
He asked me, "Were they all whites?" | 0:40:44 | 0:40:46 | |
-The rockets? -Yes. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
-He asked whether there was any colour in them at all. -What did you tell him? | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
-I told him they were all white. -Did he give any instructions? -No. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:59 | |
Will you ask him what he understood by the word "disappeared"? | 0:41:01 | 0:41:06 | |
Yes, M'Lord. You say you were told to report that the ship had disappeared. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:11 | |
-What did you mean by "disappeared"? -That we could not see anything more of her. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:16 | |
A ship goes out of sight when she goes down to the bottom. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:21 | |
What did you understand by the word "disappeared"? | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
That is all I could understand about it. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
A ship that has been sending up rockets has disappeared. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
Did you understand from Mr Stone to mean that she had gone down to the bottom? | 0:41:32 | 0:41:36 | |
-No. -Well, what did you understand? That she'd steamed her way through the ice? | 0:41:36 | 0:41:41 | |
COURT MURMURS | 0:41:41 | 0:41:43 | |
At any time, did Mr Stone say to you, "This vessel seems to be in distress"? | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
No... He said, "There must be something the matter with her." | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
Did he make any remarks to you as to the captain taking no action? | 0:41:54 | 0:41:59 | |
Did he say anything to you at all? | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
-No. -Are you sure? | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
Yes. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:05 | |
Did you say anything to yourself about it? | 0:42:05 | 0:42:07 | |
I only thought the same that he thought. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
And what was that? | 0:42:10 | 0:42:11 | |
That a ship would not fire rockets at sea for nothing | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
and there must be something the matter with her. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
Then you thought it was a case of some kind of distress? | 0:42:16 | 0:42:21 | |
Yes. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:24 | |
PEOPLE IN THE GALLERY MURMUR | 0:42:24 | 0:42:28 | |
I'm sorry, captain, I did my best. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
Quite. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
It's just, there were so many questions and it's hard to... | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
I know you did your best. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
It's over now. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:54 | |
Go and have your smoke. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
Mr Groves. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:22 | |
Sir. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:23 | |
Mr Stone informed me about what passed between you earlier. | 0:43:23 | 0:43:28 | |
You will apologise to Mr Stone. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:31 | |
He is your superior officer, Mr Groves. And you will apologise. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:42 | |
My apologies, Mr Stone. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:47 | |
You may leave us now, Mr Stone. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:54 | |
Yes, sir. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:56 | |
So... | 0:44:04 | 0:44:06 | |
I understand you may have some misgivings | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
about the evidence you'll give today. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
Yes, sir. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
That's understandable. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:14 | |
We have, all of us, been under the most intolerable pressures. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:18 | |
Even the strongest of us might begin to doubt himself. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
I don't doubt myself. | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
Excellent. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:26 | |
Then you will know that for the good of your comrades | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
and the greater good of the service you must do your duty today. | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
That is all that is required. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
And that is the only loyalty you owe anyone. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
I can see that you are troubled. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
You have compassion, Mr Groves, | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
and that is a good thing in an officer. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
But you must not allow your emotions to sway you. | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
Concern yourself only with the facts. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
The ship had a list, a list to starboard. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
It was the Titanic that we saw. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
It was not. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
-And you must not say that it was. -You know that it was. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:20 | |
I know no such thing. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:23 | |
That's why there was no mention of the rockets in the logbook. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:28 | |
That's why the scrap logbook has gone missing, | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
so that you could put in the co-ordinates that suited you | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
the next day to say that we were nowhere near the Titanic. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
Those are the facts. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
Mr Groves, you lose the run of yourself. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:42 | |
And once the logbook is doctored to set the position we want to be in | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
then we can go ahead with the denials. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
Deny we saw the Titanic, | 0:45:47 | 0:45:49 | |
deny we know what a distress rocket is. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
Dear God, even the rawest recruit | 0:45:52 | 0:45:54 | |
knows a distress signal when he sees one. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:56 | |
I didn't know about any damned rockets. | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
Stone told you, | 0:45:59 | 0:46:01 | |
Gibson told you... | 0:46:01 | 0:46:03 | |
I was asleep! | 0:46:03 | 0:46:04 | |
And while you slept, the Titanic sank! | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
How dare you? | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
The Titanic sank because the captain chose to ignore iceberg warnings, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
warnings that we gave him. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:30 | |
He made a mistake | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
and he paid for that mistake with the lives of his crew | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
and his passengers. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:37 | |
Mistakes can have terrible consequences, Mr Groves. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:44 | |
And you must not make one today. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
We saw a ship, | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
that's all. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:53 | |
It was not the Titanic. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
They are dead. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:02 | |
We are living. | 0:47:02 | 0:47:03 | |
And there is nothing, | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
nothing that you can do to help bring any of them back. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:09 | |
Now. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:16 | |
Do your duty, Mr Groves. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
Your duty to your captain and your crewmates. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:25 | |
Aye, sir. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:28 | |
Good man. | 0:47:38 | 0:47:40 | |
Mr Groves? | 0:47:56 | 0:47:57 | |
Yes. | 0:47:58 | 0:47:59 | |
The name's Lee. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:01 | |
I wanted to apologise. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
Sorry about what happened. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:05 | |
The lady who slapped you. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:07 | |
Margaret's not herself. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:10 | |
Hasn't been herself since. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
I understand. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:13 | |
And I want you to know that I, that we, in the Titanic, | 0:48:13 | 0:48:18 | |
don't harbour any grudge. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
I know you would have helped us if you could. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
If you'd known it was us, you would've come straight for us. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
Ice or no ice. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
Just like if our situation were reversed, | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
-we'd have come for you. -Yes. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
We have an understanding, | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
a code of honour to look out for each other. | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
It's part of who we are. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:42 | |
HE HEARS EXPLOSIONS AND SCREAMS | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
Charles Victor Groves, | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
Charles Victor Groves to give evidence. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
Your name is Charles Groves. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:56 | |
About 11:10, ship's time, | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
I made out a steamer coming up on our starboard. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:04 | |
Did you report that to the captain? | 0:50:04 | 0:50:06 | |
Yes, I went to the lower bridge and I told him. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
Did you say what kind of steamer you thought she was? | 0:50:09 | 0:50:12 | |
I said she is evidently a passenger steamer. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:16 | |
Did you say why you thought she was a passenger steamer? | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
Yes, I told him I could see her deck lights and that that made me | 0:50:19 | 0:50:23 | |
pass the remark that she is evidently a passenger steamer. | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
How many deck lights had she? Had she much light? | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
Yes, a lot of light. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
There was absolutely no doubt in her being a passenger steamer, | 0:50:34 | 0:50:37 | |
at least, in my mind. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:39 | |
You could see two masthead lights? | 0:50:39 | 0:50:41 | |
I did see two masthead lights. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:43 | |
Did you have any more conversation with the captain about the steamer? | 0:50:43 | 0:50:47 | |
He came up on the bridge and said, | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
"That does not look like a passenger steamer." | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
I said, "It is, sir. She put her lights out a few minutes ago." | 0:50:51 | 0:50:56 | |
Was anything said at the time about the Titanic? | 0:50:56 | 0:50:58 | |
He said, "The only passenger steamer near us is the Titanic." | 0:50:58 | 0:51:04 | |
Did the steamer continue on her course after that? | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
No, she stopped. | 0:51:06 | 0:51:10 | |
That was about 11:40, | 0:51:10 | 0:51:11 | |
her lights appeared to go out. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:14 | |
At 11:40, the engines were stopped on the Titanic. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
Yes, my lord. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:19 | |
I stayed on the bridge until sometime between 12:10 and 12:15. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:26 | |
And you were then relieved by Mr Stone. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:30 | |
I was. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:31 | |
You were the officer of the watch from 8pm to midnight. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
Would you, then, be keeping the scrap log? | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
I was keeping the scrap log. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:40 | |
Is the scrap log here? | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
No. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:43 | |
It is not kept. | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
Is it destroyed from time to time? | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
There is one log always kept, of course. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
But the scrap log is destroyed from time to time. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:55 | |
It is copied from the scrap log into the printed log. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
Into this fair copy, this book which I have here? | 0:51:59 | 0:52:02 | |
Yes. | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
Where is the scrap log book? | 0:52:04 | 0:52:06 | |
I expect it was thrown away. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
Where was it thrown away to? | 0:52:11 | 0:52:13 | |
I expect it went over the side. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:17 | |
Did you throw it over the side? | 0:52:17 | 0:52:18 | |
I did not. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:21 | |
Who did? | 0:52:21 | 0:52:22 | |
I do not know. | 0:52:23 | 0:52:24 | |
You would know that this book was the book which contained | 0:52:24 | 0:52:28 | |
the real record for 14 April. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
Of course I knew that. | 0:52:31 | 0:52:33 | |
And by that time, of course, you knew, | 0:52:33 | 0:52:34 | |
and others on your ship knew that a very serious enquiry | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
was being made as to the position of your ship | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
and what she was doing on 14 April. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:43 | |
Certainly. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:45 | |
And by that time you knew that there was some discussion | 0:52:45 | 0:52:47 | |
as to whether that ship was the Titanic or some other ship? | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
That was a discussion amongst ourselves. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:54 | |
You must have seen the scrap log book the next day when he came on duty. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:59 | |
Do you know whether it contains any record of these rockets being seen? | 0:52:59 | 0:53:04 | |
I saw none myself. | 0:53:04 | 0:53:06 | |
If you had been keeping the scrap logbook | 0:53:06 | 0:53:08 | |
and had seen a succession of white rockets fired from this vessel, | 0:53:08 | 0:53:13 | |
would you have made a record in your scrap log? | 0:53:13 | 0:53:16 | |
Most decidedly, that is what the scrap logbook is for. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:20 | |
So I should have thought. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:22 | |
Then it would have been the business of the man who had this book | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
to record those facts. | 0:53:25 | 0:53:27 | |
I think so, my lord. | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
Who was he? | 0:53:30 | 0:53:31 | |
Mr Stone was on watch. | 0:53:33 | 0:53:35 | |
Therefore if Mr Stone did what you think was his duty | 0:53:35 | 0:53:40 | |
then this scrap logbook which was thrown away, | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
or in all events cannot be found, | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
would contain a record of those rockets having been seen? | 0:53:47 | 0:53:52 | |
Yes, my lord. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:53 | |
I must ask you something more - | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
if the Titanic was in latitude 41 degrees, 33... | 0:53:55 | 0:54:01 | |
and your vessel was, as stated in the log, | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
in latitude 42 degrees, 5, | 0:54:04 | 0:54:06 | |
the Titanic would be some 33 miles to the southward | 0:54:06 | 0:54:10 | |
of the position where you were lying stopped? | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
Yes, about 30 miles. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:14 | |
And if the Titanic was 30 miles to the southward, | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
I don't suppose you could see any navigation lights at that distance? | 0:54:18 | 0:54:22 | |
No, none whatsoever. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:23 | |
If this vessel which you did see was only some four or five miles | 0:54:23 | 0:54:28 | |
to the southward of you, do you think she could have been the Titanic? | 0:54:28 | 0:54:33 | |
That is a question I want this witness to answer. | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
Speaking as an experienced seaman, and knowing what you know now, | 0:54:37 | 0:54:42 | |
do you think that the steamer that was throwing up rockets | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
and that you say was a passenger steamer was the Titanic? | 0:54:45 | 0:54:50 | |
Most decidedly... | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
I do. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:09 | |
CLAMOUR OF VOICES | 0:55:10 | 0:55:14 | |
So that is British justice, is it? | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
I demand to appeal. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:33 | |
I'm afraid you don't have the right to appeal. | 0:55:33 | 0:55:36 | |
You're merely a witness. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
You'd have to get the inquiry reopened, | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
and I don't think anyone wants to do THAT, do you? | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
So they can blacken my name forever? | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
These men, who have never even been to sea - | 0:55:47 | 0:55:49 | |
they can tarnish my reputation? | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
We haven't heard the findings of the inquiry yet. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
Perhaps you fret prematurely, Captain. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
Every officer and every man of my crew was an Englishman. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
And no Englishman will stand by and see anyone or anything in distress | 0:56:08 | 0:56:13 | |
without trying to lend assistance. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:15 | |
-LORD MERSEY: -'These circumstances convince me...' | 0:56:26 | 0:56:30 | |
that the ship seen by the Californian was the Titanic. | 0:56:30 | 0:56:36 | |
When she first saw the rockets, | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
the Californian could have pushed through the ice | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
into open water without serious risk... | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
..and so have come to the assistance of the Titanic. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:52 | |
Had she done so, she might have saved many - | 0:56:52 | 0:56:57 | |
if not all - of the 1,500 lives that were lost. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:01 | |
'Captain Lord was blamed for failing to help the Titanic, | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
'and was sacked as captain. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
'However, he managed to obtain a new command straight away | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
'and retired comfortably in 1927. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
'Lord publicly blamed Stone for failing to tell him | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
'that the rockets he had seen were distress rockets. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
'Herbert Stone was never seen fit to have command of a ship. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
'Tormented by guilt, he left the Merchant Navy | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
'and ended his days as a dock labourer. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
'He died in poverty. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
'James Gibson had a successful career spanning 46 years | 0:57:47 | 0:57:52 | |
'and made second mate. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:53 | |
'Charles Groves eventually was promoted to captain | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
'and served with distinction in both World Wars. | 0:58:00 | 0:58:03 | |
'A century later, it has never been definitively proven | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
'whether the ship sighted from the deck of the Californian WAS the Titanic, | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
'but many experts believe that it was. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:19 | |
'If it was the Titanic, | 0:58:20 | 0:58:22 | |
'the reason why the Californian did not go to her | 0:58:22 | 0:58:25 | |
'remains a mystery to this day. | 0:58:25 | 0:58:27 | |
'Over 1,500 people lost their lives that night.' | 0:58:28 | 0:58:32 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:54 | 0:58:57 |