Episode 16 Dragons' Den


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Transcript


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Tonight on Dragons' Den...

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I'm going to give you just a little piece of advice now -

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you could blow this.

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Physical orders, written down, confirmed - what have you got?

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Nope. Good try, but that doesn't answer my question, either.

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-If you develop a guerrilla brand,

-if

-you crack that,

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then you could make a fortune.

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If any one of my MDs is ordering a Michelin-star meal,

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I'd throw him out the nearest window.

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Ugh!

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-Ah!

-Oh, Yes!

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Welcome to Dragons' Den.

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The Dragons have built empires

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by spotting great business opportunities.

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But here, only the entrepreneurs who can offer big returns

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will get a vital cash investment.

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The rest will walk away with nothing.

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First into the Den, a former blue-chip corporate lawyer

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who has stepped off the career ladder

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to try and clean up in the male grooming market.

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I took a gamble.

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It was an itch I had to scratch.

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But what we're setting out to achieve here could be enormous.

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Win, lose or draw, I'd love to work with these guys

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and take the business to where I think it can go -

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right up in the stratosphere.

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The sky's the limit for this entrepreneur,

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but will the Dragons be blown away by the fragrance of his business?

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Hello.

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Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure to introduce you

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to the British start-up Gruhm.

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Gruhm makes and sells its own line of male fragrances.

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When I started this business three years ago,

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I did so out of frustration.

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I felt like there was so much more to come

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from the male grooming market.

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There was still a new 2.0 brand that was going to deliver what I wanted

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from the product - something fresh, masculine,

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modern and introducing the best of traditional techniques

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with a modern twist.

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We were also looking to develop a line of products that would

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complement the shaving routine, such as razors and brushes.

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My belief - that Gruhm is now ready

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to go into the mainstream corporate market.

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We have a supply chain based here in the UK,

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worth over 250 million in turnover,

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who also represent decades of experience in this field.

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The intention for Gruhm is to become a corporate player.

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We have been niche now for three years,

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last year turning over just £30,000 from our two fragrances.

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Before that, it was just £8,000, the year before, just four.

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I'm looking for an investment of £75,000,

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in exchange for 15% of the business.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I believe you're looking at the future of UK

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and, hopefully, global male grooming.

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My name is Rob. I'd love to take your questions

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and to offer you some samples.

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A well-coiffured pitch from Rob Hallmark,

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who's willing to shave 15% off his male grooming business

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in exchange for a £75,000 investment.

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I have some cards you can spray, if you'd rather not.

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-I was going to spray Nick, and smell him.

-OK!

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And when you stand before the multi-millionaire Deborah Meaden,

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you only get one chance to make a first impression.

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So, Rob, thank you for that.

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-Hello. Deborah, thank you.

-Can I start off by saying,

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-that is the sharpest suit and squarest jaw...

-Thank you!

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..I've seen in a long-time, and you fit your product very well.

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-Thank you very much.

-So, that's a great start.

-So...

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-Are you flirting, Deborah?

-I'm not blushing, it's make-up!

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It's slightly direct, if I am flirting, isn't it?

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No, I get much more coquettish when I flirt.

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Actually, you look like a Marvel cartoon character.

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I'm loving this!

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LAUGHTER

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Is it Mr Incredible with the really square jaw line?

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Is it Captain America?

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I'm going to scrap this. I'm going to go and try and get a job

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in Hollywood, maybe that's my missed calling.

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Anyway, the reason I say it,

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you actually represent your brand very well,

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-which is, you know...

-Thank you.

-That's great.

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So, you're making in the UK.

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-Correct.

-You develop the fragrances?

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What I did was, I approached...

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The original plan was to be purely organic, so I researched UK-based,

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organic, certified fragrance houses, which limited it to just a handful,

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which helped.

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So, I started with the closest, and met the team.

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In fact, met the director.

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And he actually was a very good mentor,

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he recommended I didn't go purely organic - it was an acquired taste.

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So, I started on a learning curve,

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and developed what I really wanted above all else,

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which was a fresh, wearable fragrance,

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something you would throw on as a grooming routine,

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bring it back to that morning shower, shave, fragrance

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out of the house.

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And so we developed this scent, based on my brief, and a selection,

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so we whittled it down to this fragrance you have today.

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-Rob, erm...

-Peter.

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I don't like the smell.

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It's very, erm...

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It feels like somebody's sort of grabbed me

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and I've gone through a few lemon trees.

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-OK.

-And there's some...

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..lavender on the ground and I feel like I've been dragged along

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and then left up a lemon tree.

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Interestingly, not everyone's into citrus. My...

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That's quite specific!

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It's good, you should be a nose, Peter, I'm impressed by that.

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-What else is in it?

-We've got patchouli,

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which starts to pull through as a heart note,

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so that's pulling in more of a woody texture.

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Then it's got oakwood and musk finishing at the end.

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So, it has a woody, smoky finish to it.

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Rob is standing firm on the smell,

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but it seems that Peter Jones is not for turning.

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Now, Deborah Meaden wants to know where he stands

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in a saturated fragrance sector.

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This is a market that has seen a lot of new entries recently.

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-Correct.

-A - what was the gap that you saw

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and B - why do you attack that?

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I think what I was interested in in the marketplace is,

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there are a lot of start-ups, frankly hundreds coming in.

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A lot were in the beard market,

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a lot of the male brands coming out were a bit too...

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Not to be derogatory, but a bit too T-shirts, tattoos and beards,

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which wasn't my sort of marketplace.

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I just wanted something fresh and masculine.

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So, aimed at guys.

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Hence I like the monochrome colouring.

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The strong name, it's not trying to be too clever, but it's got a twist.

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And the lawyer in me was saying, look, you can trademark that.

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It's a great name, so as soon as it was trademarked,

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that was really when I started to take the brand seriously.

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Gruhm, how do you...?

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I mean, it doesn't help that I can't read very well, but Gruhm,

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how do you...? Is that how you pronounce that?

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-"Groom", yeah.

-What is that, German?

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Well, interestingly, I have a bit of German Heritage.

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Is that how you pronounce "groom" in German, then, or...?

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Or spell it? If I looked at that, I would say that's, like...

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"Grew" or "Grew-me".

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It has been heard before, that some have said, "Grew-me".

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I think the advantage is when they hear "Groom",

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it clicks and it stays, so it doesn't remain confusing.

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Oh, I think when you verbally said it, I knew what your brand was.

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-Yep.

-Obviously.

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But I would have looked at that and said, that was "Grew-me".

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Gruhm for men clearly isn't growing on Peter Jones,

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and it appears that Touker Suleyman, the Dragon at the helm

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of a quintessential British menswear brand,

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is also feeling sniffy.

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Rob, you missed a big trick.

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Why didn't you pick an old English name?

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It could have been Smith & Jones,

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it could have been Barker & Smit, or whatever you want to call it.

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-Yep.

-And package that as an old English type of product.

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-Yep.

-That would have really attracted heritage, it would have...

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Lots of things. Rather than being very contemporary, and just another...

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Another piece on the shelf, piece of everything else.

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Yeah. I think it's quite rare to see a brand start today to be

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this punchy, you know, go for that corporate heart stone,

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that the big brands like to dominate, as you say, like Boss.

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The market, because it's worth billions, you know, we take 1%,

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that 35 million estimate in 17 years, that's only 1% of the market.

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But you've been doing it for three years!

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30 grand is what a little shop takes on Jermyn Street

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by two o'clock on a Saturday afternoon.

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My belief with Gruhm is, it's a new generation product, which means

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our USP is this start-up culture,

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the kind of Apple-IBM tussle between the big dogs

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and the new kid on the block,

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and I think consumers will come flooding to that eventually.

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Oh, really? Don't compare yourself to Apple.

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You've gone down the wrong track,

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you're going to compete with the big boys, you're going to struggle,

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you might do 60 grand next year, or 50, but you'll still lose money.

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Go back and read your books, maybe go back as a corporate lawyer,

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because that's not going to make you money.

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I'm not going to invest in you, and I'm out.

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Not enough heritage to be distinct for Touker Suleyman.

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And he's first to decline the deal.

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But has Nick Jenkins sensed a fighting spirit in the young pretender?

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This is one of those extraordinary businesses,

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where, if you look at the actual cost of producing a bottle

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of even one of the high street brands

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that sells for £50 a bottle,

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what would that actually cost to produce?

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If you're a major brand...

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-Yep.

-They'd be looking at around about a dollar a bottle.

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Yeah, OK. So therein lies my point.

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You are looking at cost of sales of probably a few hundred thousand.

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The rest is gross margin.

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But, of course, what comes into that is this enormous marketing budget.

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-Yep.

-So tell us about that.

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My strategy is to be an alternative, a challenger brand.

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So I'm trying to go in places where those brands

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wouldn't go into and create a kind of guerrilla attack

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to what we are trying to achieve.

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So we've approached hotel chains, who've really adapted the brand

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because it's different, it's innovative, it's new.

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If I'm honest, they're kind of done with the big corporates now.

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They're looking for something with more character, frankly.

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-If you develop a guerrilla brand...

-Yep.

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If you crack that then, erm...

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Then you can make a fortune.

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E-commerce gifting millionaire Nick Jenkins

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is finding Rob's sense of adventure commendable.

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Can Deborah Meaden see the product in her investment portfolio?

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I have a thing about putting stuff on your skin.

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You know, I have publicly said I wouldn't put anything on my skin

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I wouldn't put in my mouth.

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So when you said you went down the organic route, I thought,

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"Oh, maybe he has found a way of doing..."

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I understand the issues about doing an organic product.

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The trouble is yours isn't organic.

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I won't be investing. I'm out.

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Rob, you know what, I'm probably going to be condemned

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for saying this, but I can't help but say what comes into my head.

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-If I wanted to bring out an aftershave...

-Yep.

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..and I wanted to go and invest in a brand,

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I'd bring out Peter Jones aftershave.

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There's not a smell that I really buy into.

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So I'm going to say that I'm out.

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Too pungent for Peter Jones, who turns his nose up at a deal.

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Consumer specialist Sarah Willingham clearly sees the appeal

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of the man and his fragrance,

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but is the business potent enough for her to invest £75,000?

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Rob, haven't you picked the most difficult market in existence,

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with the most enormous brand names with enormous budgets,

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to try and, kind of, creep up on?

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It depends on how we want to achieve our growth.

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I think some of those big budgets aren't being as effective

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as they used to be and that's almost their only trick -

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mass advertising, push products into retailers,

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push products into the home.

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And even, I think, some retailers are finding the footfall's

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dropping away because they're all becoming very complacent.

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I honestly think in reality that unless you've got

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some kind of superhero power, it would be a market

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that would really, really scare me to try and...

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(It's exciting.)

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Without a USP, without a story,

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I think it's a tough, tough, tough market.

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I just think you're going to really struggle to break into it,

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I really do.

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I'm afraid I'm out.

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Four Dragons have declined the offer.

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Rob's hopes now all rest on Nick Jenkins' willingness

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to splash the cash.

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I actually quite like the brand, Gruhm,

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-because it's not trying to pretend to be anything else.

-Yeah.

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The difficulty is in trying to understand the probability of you

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being able to pull this off and that is completely unpredictable.

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I'm afraid, unfortunately, I just can't get beyond the fact

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that what you are essentially have and what you've valued at £600,000

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is someone else's formula and a nice name,

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but not enough certainty that this will work for me

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to be able to invest.

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So I'm afraid I'm out.

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-Thank you, everyone.

-Thanks, Rob.

-Good luck.

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Thank you very much. Thank you.

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And so the former lawyer leaves the room empty-handed...

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..but with a third career choice.

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-Who is the Marvel character?

-Is it Captain America?

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-No... No, I think it's Mr...

-Is it not Buzz Lightyear?

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-It's Mr America.

-I think it's Buzz Lightyear.

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I think it's Mr Incredible.

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'Not feeling Mr Incredible at the moment.

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'It surprised me they were so unwilling to have a crack.'

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They were concerned it couldn't be done

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and that's where we're different.

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Next in the Den, a man who believes people need more convenient access

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to some of the best cooking in the world.

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I'm passionate about the business.

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No-one else is doing what we're doing.

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The challenge of going into something

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which was forward thinking and Internet-based

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was really, sort of, quite a fun thing to do.

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It's tough, though, building something from scratch.

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I just hope they like what the business has got to offer, really.

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Hello. My name is Peter Georgiou.

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I'm the founder and CEO of Supper.

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Supper is a web-based, on demand, high-end food delivery service

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currently working in central London.

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I'm asking for 100,000 for 10% to help with marketing,

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key hires and further product development.

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We've so far partnered with 25 restaurants,

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two are Michelin-starred,

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four are represented by Michelin-star chefs,

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and the rest are award-winning.

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We've had sales of over £165,000

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and successfully processed over 2,000 orders.

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But we've only just scratched the surface.

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The aim is to curate the best restaurants in London

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and place them all together on the same platform for the first time,

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assuring customers the best choice of eateries

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available anywhere online.

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Supper is, in essence, a technology company.

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We've utilised cutting edge tech

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to link customers to restaurants seamlessly.

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However, the delivery process will now,

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and for the foreseeable future, remain human.

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I'd love for you to be part of this culinary journey.

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I believe your delivery has arrived.

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Singing for his supper is London-based Peter Georgiou...

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..whose company delivers food from high-end restaurants

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straight to your door.

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He's looking for £100,000 in exchange for 10% of his business.

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-Have you come from London?

-Yes, sir.

-You have?

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-All the way from London?

-Not in that!

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Multimillionaire Touker Suleyman has entertained

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at some of the top tables in the capital.

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Is this an investment he could dine out on?

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Peter...

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I like the name. I like the branding. It's good.

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I live in central London so I know every restaurant

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you need to know.

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Have you got exclusivity with these restaurants

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or can they use any delivery service?

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Yeah, 80% of the restaurants you see on there have exclusivity,

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but a lot of the restaurants on there...

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Before we came, they wouldn't even consider delivery.

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Peter, I'm quite surprised that a Michelin-starred restaurant

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would allow their food to go out of their restaurant,

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be placed in your hands

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and delivered 40 minutes later somewhere else.

0:18:330:18:35

Well, we don't work on those kind of timeframes.

0:18:350:18:38

-What sort of timeframe is it?

-About 15 minutes.

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-15 minutes?

-Yeah, we can get...

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The bike can get across London in three and a half,

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four miles, in 15 minutes.

0:18:450:18:47

On an average week, how many orders would you take?

0:18:480:18:51

100 or so at the moment, but the average order

0:18:510:18:54

is in excess of £68-70.

0:18:540:18:57

OK, so £70 is the order.

0:18:570:19:00

We take commission from the restaurant.

0:19:000:19:02

We have a delivery charge and a service charge.

0:19:020:19:04

OK, so on £70...

0:19:040:19:06

-Yeah, on a £70 order, we'll make £9.

-You'll make £9.

0:19:060:19:10

So how much money have you put into it, or how much money is invested?

0:19:100:19:13

What is your structure of the business at the moment?

0:19:130:19:17

I've put over £300,000 in so far.

0:19:170:19:21

-Of your own personal money?

-Yeah.

0:19:210:19:25

Wow.

0:19:250:19:26

A huge personal stake from a self-starter

0:19:280:19:31

willing to put his money where his mouth is.

0:19:310:19:35

Now, Peter Jones wants to work out

0:19:350:19:37

whether the cash has been well spent.

0:19:370:19:40

You've had the system developed which is the website, yeah?

0:19:420:19:45

So far, it's the website.

0:19:450:19:46

The amount of money that you've ploughed into developing that site

0:19:460:19:49

is 300,000 or less?

0:19:490:19:51

No, obviously that's the whole business.

0:19:510:19:53

That's buying all the bikes...

0:19:530:19:54

So, what have you spent the money on?

0:19:540:19:56

A lot of the money has gone on technology,

0:19:560:19:58

probably around 190,000 or so.

0:19:580:20:02

Right, and where did you get your money from to put the money in

0:20:020:20:04

in the first place?

0:20:040:20:06

My background is trading.

0:20:060:20:08

I was a City trader for 13 years.

0:20:080:20:10

-Who for?

-I traded for myself.

0:20:100:20:13

-With whose money?

-My own money.

0:20:130:20:16

And how much did you make?

0:20:160:20:18

I obviously did OK, because I've had enough money

0:20:180:20:20

to put into this business, so...

0:20:200:20:22

-Yeah, I've had quite a good run.

-So, you made 300,000 or more, or...?

0:20:220:20:26

-Yeah.

-More than a million?

0:20:260:20:28

Yeah, I've probably taken much more than a million out of the market.

0:20:280:20:32

I didn't start the business to become, you know,

0:20:320:20:34

a billionaire or anything like that.

0:20:340:20:36

I started the business because I thought there was a gap

0:20:360:20:38

in this particular market.

0:20:380:20:40

We're here and we're proving that this works.

0:20:400:20:43

Peter Jones identifies deep pockets supporting a personal passion,

0:20:460:20:50

but Sarah Willingham, the Dragon that made her millions

0:20:500:20:53

in restaurant roll-outs, has been here before.

0:20:530:20:57

Peter, I'm going to be a bit controversial.

0:21:020:21:04

I'm going to completely disagree, actually.

0:21:040:21:06

I don't think you have got something.

0:21:060:21:08

I had the largest chain of Indian delivery restaurants in the UK.

0:21:100:21:14

I know how hard this is.

0:21:140:21:16

The problem is, if this works, it will fail.

0:21:160:21:20

There is a reason why top-end restaurants cap their seats

0:21:220:21:26

and that is because they can control what is going through that kitchen.

0:21:260:21:31

It is fine-tuned and, actually, they operate to their capacity.

0:21:310:21:35

I've tried it in the lower end of the market with Gourmet Burger,

0:21:370:21:41

with Pizza Express delivery.

0:21:410:21:43

It didn't work for this very reason, and it's because the kitchens

0:21:430:21:47

cannot cope with that extra level of turnover.

0:21:470:21:50

So, if it's a success, it automatically fails,

0:21:500:21:54

because they can't do it.

0:21:540:21:56

It is a difficult thing, and I think one thing we haven't looked at -

0:21:560:22:00

the corporate market, and how, when corporates order,

0:22:000:22:04

-they will order £300, £400, £500 at a time.

-Yeah.

0:22:040:22:06

And some of them want to sit in their own offices

0:22:060:22:08

and have private meetings.

0:22:080:22:10

They don't want to go to these particular restaurants, because...

0:22:100:22:12

Sensitive information.

0:22:120:22:14

So if we can tap into that market, there's not many restaurants

0:22:140:22:16

that don't want more business during the day.

0:22:160:22:19

-And in the evening...

-Except for the high-end, Michelin-starred ones

0:22:190:22:22

that actually are so fine-tuned that every hour is all about prep.

0:22:220:22:28

They cannot be making things randomly out of the hours.

0:22:280:22:32

I think it is a big mistake.

0:22:340:22:36

And for that reason, I'm not going to invest.

0:22:380:22:40

So I'm out.

0:22:400:22:42

Serial restaurateur Sarah Willingham

0:22:450:22:47

predicts hell in the kitchen, and bows out.

0:22:470:22:51

But Peter Jones is having concerns of a very different kind.

0:22:510:22:55

Peter, you mentioned about having somebody order at a dinner table

0:22:570:23:03

or lunch table in their office a Michelin-starred meal.

0:23:030:23:07

I can tell you, I've been in business for 30 years,

0:23:070:23:09

I own 28 different companies,

0:23:090:23:11

if any one of my MDs was ordering a Michelin-star meal,

0:23:110:23:15

I'd throw him out the nearest window.

0:23:150:23:18

That's such a decadent lifestyle.

0:23:180:23:20

So your business is not only niche,

0:23:220:23:24

I think your model is really in question,

0:23:240:23:26

your valuation is ridiculous,

0:23:260:23:28

so I can't invest in something like that.

0:23:280:23:30

So, sadly, I'm out.

0:23:300:23:31

Two Dragons have declined the deal on the table.

0:23:350:23:38

Is Touker Suleyman tempted to invest in Michelin-star meals on wheels?

0:23:380:23:43

If you had come here today and said,

0:23:470:23:49

"I have got a contract with every restaurant you can't get into..."

0:23:490:23:54

You know, where you've got to wait three months to get a booking,

0:23:540:23:57

or they're always fully booked unless they know you,

0:23:570:24:00

and you had your USP, something very unique, and said,

0:24:000:24:03

"People want to get into these restaurants, they can't,

0:24:030:24:05

"but I can deliver it..."

0:24:050:24:07

I agree with you, but we've spoken to all those restaurant groups,

0:24:070:24:11

and they're on the wait-and-see.

0:24:110:24:13

So, obviously, it's a sort of chicken and egg.

0:24:130:24:16

We need to deliver and show that the business is taking off,

0:24:160:24:19

and actually, this is working, and high-end restaurants

0:24:190:24:22

can actually use our service and be confident

0:24:220:24:25

that when they've given us the food, the customer will receive it

0:24:250:24:27

at the other end.

0:24:270:24:28

With all due respect, it's a very small proportion of the population

0:24:280:24:33

in Kensington and Chelsea, in that area,

0:24:330:24:36

-that are going to want Michelin food delivered.

-No, but...

0:24:360:24:38

They want the experience.

0:24:380:24:39

So my thing is, they want the experience of going there

0:24:390:24:43

and having that Michelin-star experience.

0:24:430:24:45

They don't want a takeaway, and pay Michelin star prices.

0:24:450:24:48

So, for that reason, I'm out.

0:24:510:24:53

A flawed food concept for Touker Suleyman,

0:24:560:24:58

who becomes the third Dragon to decline the deal.

0:24:580:25:01

Now, Deborah Meaden is pondering whether a £100,000 investment

0:25:030:25:08

will even touch the sides.

0:25:080:25:10

How much have you allowed in your future projections

0:25:130:25:17

for further investment?

0:25:170:25:20

OK, well...

0:25:200:25:21

I mean...

0:25:210:25:24

The thing is...

0:25:240:25:26

I know that the business...

0:25:270:25:29

Like, obviously, we have however many customers...

0:25:290:25:32

12,000-15,000 customers,

0:25:320:25:33

and if we get to, say, 6,000 in the next, you know, three weeks,

0:25:330:25:37

four weeks, whatever, we do a big marketing campaign,

0:25:370:25:41

then hopefully we'll achieve those.

0:25:410:25:43

And I understand, they're not super sexy for an investor.

0:25:430:25:46

But they are quite conservative.

0:25:460:25:48

Peter, I'm letting you run with this,

0:25:480:25:49

-but it in no way answers my question.

-OK.

0:25:490:25:52

Probably, in order to achieve a growth of, say, 6-7%

0:25:520:25:58

-on 30%, 40%-plus...

-No.

0:25:580:26:01

Nope. Good try, but that doesn't answer my question, either.

0:26:010:26:05

Around 300,000-350,000, probably.

0:26:050:26:07

Of what?

0:26:070:26:09

Cash to keep the business going...

0:26:090:26:11

So, you're going to need an additional 300,000-350,000?

0:26:110:26:16

Yeah.

0:26:160:26:18

-First of all, I'm glad you're aware of that...

-Yeah.

0:26:190:26:22

..because I absolutely promise you, you're going to need more money.

0:26:220:26:26

And I can tell you now, knowing you're going to need more money,

0:26:260:26:29

which means that I'm going to get more diluted and, I promise you,

0:26:290:26:33

it'll be a lot more than 350,000,

0:26:330:26:36

you're going to dilute me to the point at which I'm...

0:26:360:26:38

I'm just not going to be interested.

0:26:380:26:41

I'm sorry, Peter, but you've structured it wrong,

0:26:410:26:45

which is a shame.

0:26:450:26:47

So I'm out.

0:26:470:26:49

The final bill is too much for Deborah Meaden,

0:26:520:26:55

which leaves just one Dragon.

0:26:550:26:58

Does e-commerce expert Nick Jenkins also take the view

0:26:580:27:02

that Peter's food delivery concept is overcooked?

0:27:020:27:06

Now, if you had come to me with someone who really understood

0:27:060:27:09

the restaurant business, years and years of experience

0:27:090:27:11

of understanding how kitchens worked,

0:27:110:27:13

that would be helpful. If you had come to me with a really good

0:27:130:27:15

understanding of how the logistics side of this worked,

0:27:150:27:18

then that would have been really helpful.

0:27:180:27:19

But, unfortunately, you've got lots of passion, lots of enthusiasm,

0:27:190:27:22

and you have thrown a lot of money into this,

0:27:220:27:24

and thrown your life into it,

0:27:240:27:25

but that's not enough to convince me that you can make this work.

0:27:250:27:28

So I'm afraid I can't invest, and I'm out.

0:27:320:27:35

Thank you very much.

0:27:390:27:40

So the final verdict is delivered, and Peter Georgiou heads back

0:27:400:27:44

to London without a Dragon investor to join him for the ride.

0:27:440:27:48

I think they, sort of, underestimate the sort of appetite

0:27:480:27:52

for this kind of delivery service.

0:27:520:27:56

I suppose it is niche right now,

0:27:560:27:57

but it may not be niche in a year or two's time.

0:27:570:28:00

-Made me hungry.

-Yeah.

0:28:000:28:02

-Is this beef tartare?

-Beef or tuna?

-I don't know.

0:28:020:28:06

Nick will eat it. Just don't eat the plastic, Nick.

0:28:060:28:09

Still to come on tonight's show...

0:28:140:28:17

Boxing gloves.

0:28:170:28:19

This is what I need!

0:28:190:28:21

..a culinary challenge...

0:28:220:28:24

It's probably the most alien food that I have consistently eaten

0:28:240:28:27

over a period of time, ever.

0:28:270:28:29

Nobody buys a snack that does that.

0:28:290:28:32

..and a clash of personality.

0:28:320:28:35

We didn't start off on the right foot.

0:28:350:28:37

I think the excitement - you got a bit carried away with it.

0:28:370:28:39

Don't blow it. Go and talk to the wall.

0:28:390:28:41

-Go and climb the wall.

-Sensibly.

0:28:410:28:43

Next into the Den, a married couple trying to combine

0:28:460:28:50

their family tradition of making a living

0:28:500:28:52

from the South Wales shoreline with a popular Japanese snack.

0:28:520:28:56

-Oh, they've got water here.

-Can you pour me a glass, please?

0:28:590:29:03

Don't drink too much now, right?

0:29:030:29:05

(Just forget about the Dragons, yeah? Forget about them.)

0:29:050:29:08

'I had lots of respect growing up with my grandfather.

0:29:100:29:13

'People knew his name for miles on end.'

0:29:130:29:16

There was always an obligation on me to keep his name alive.

0:29:160:29:19

And I think he'd be immensely proud to...

0:29:210:29:24

To see his name...

0:29:260:29:27

To see his name on the products throughout the shops.

0:29:270:29:30

(Come on. Do it for the boys.)

0:29:310:29:35

An emotional connection to the past,

0:29:350:29:37

but will the entrepreneurs manage to hold it together

0:29:370:29:40

when laying out plans for the future?

0:29:400:29:43

Hello, Dragons. My name's Ashley Jones and this is my wife Kate.

0:29:470:29:50

We're here today seeking a £70,000 investment for 20% equity

0:29:500:29:55

in our company Selwyn Seaweed Ltd,

0:29:550:29:57

which produces light and healthy seaweed snacks.

0:29:570:30:00

Selwyn was my grandfather, and established a business

0:30:000:30:03

over 50 years ago on the beautiful shores of the Gower Peninsula.

0:30:030:30:06

Selwyn would gather his cockles, mussels and laverbread daily

0:30:060:30:09

and sell them throughout the South Wales valleys.

0:30:090:30:13

In 2008, I visited Japan, and I was impressed

0:30:130:30:15

by their mutual love for seaweed.

0:30:150:30:17

Whilst there, I discovered flavoured, roasted seaweed snacks,

0:30:170:30:21

and after some research,

0:30:210:30:22

decided this was a perfect new direction for our company.

0:30:220:30:25

We've sailed the seven seas to source only the best -

0:30:250:30:28

dim ond y gorau, grade A nori seaweed.

0:30:280:30:32

And in July 2015, we launched three flavours of seaweed snack -

0:30:320:30:37

honey and sesame, which has won a Great Taste award,

0:30:370:30:40

sea salt and vinegar and coconut and chilli.

0:30:400:30:44

Seaweed-flavoured food and drink

0:30:440:30:47

are set to be the next big superfood trend in Europe.

0:30:470:30:50

This presents a great opportunity for manufacturers such as ourselves.

0:30:500:30:56

And we would love it if a Dragon or Dragons were to join us

0:30:560:31:00

on our adventure. Who would like to try some?

0:31:000:31:03

-ALL:

-Yes, please!

0:31:030:31:07

A passionate pitch by a couple with the sea in their blood.

0:31:070:31:11

So, we have three plates there.

0:31:110:31:13

Kate and Ashley Jones are looking for £70,000 for a 20% stake

0:31:130:31:18

in their seaweed snack business.

0:31:180:31:20

Deborah Meaden has digested both pitch and product,

0:31:210:31:25

and appears to be grappling with a snack food dilemma.

0:31:250:31:28

So I've eaten and all of my salt and vinegar I thought were lovely.

0:31:300:31:33

Thank you.

0:31:330:31:35

And, actually, I agree with you, they're actually quite satisfying.

0:31:350:31:39

But I'm slightly disappointed by the consistency.

0:31:390:31:42

When I'm eating a snack, I kind of want to...

0:31:440:31:47

You know, we're all used to tearing this off and pick up fingerfuls.

0:31:470:31:50

This doesn't feel like a snack.

0:31:500:31:52

I've got slightly sticky fingers

0:31:520:31:54

and I'm not quite sure how to eat it.

0:31:540:31:56

It kind of feels to me like it should be a little less alien.

0:31:570:32:01

The seaweed comes in very thin forms,

0:32:010:32:03

so it's almost like a sushi sheet.

0:32:030:32:05

There are, obviously, secondary processes where we can maybe make

0:32:050:32:08

a sandwich or different ideas...

0:32:080:32:09

We can make the product thicker, but at this stage,

0:32:090:32:12

this is what has been eaten around the world and that's the format

0:32:120:32:15

we've decided to take on.

0:32:150:32:16

-Kate, Ashley.

-Hi.

0:32:180:32:20

I'm a convert of seaweed, so I just want to start by saying that.

0:32:200:32:24

I spent a year in Japan and it's probably the most alien food

0:32:240:32:28

that I have consistently eaten over a period of time, ever,

0:32:280:32:32

anywhere in the world, but I actually think just because

0:32:320:32:35

they eat it in Japan doesn't mean that

0:32:350:32:37

it will translate over to a Western palate.

0:32:370:32:39

It's quite hardcore, isn't it, as a flavour?

0:32:390:32:42

Do you think the UK market's ready for a seaweed snack?

0:32:420:32:46

I absolutely adore the flavours.

0:32:460:32:48

I snack on them all the time, my kids snack on them and, yes,

0:32:480:32:52

it is relatively new to the UK market,

0:32:520:32:55

but we believe that it has great potential.

0:32:550:32:58

It's healthy, it's nutrient dense and the flavours, I think,

0:32:580:33:03

do appeal to the UK consumer.

0:33:030:33:05

One question for you - how much does a packet of this cost

0:33:070:33:10

-at retail?

-Retail, 99p.

-OK, the slight issue I have here -

0:33:100:33:13

-it is only 4g.

-Yeah.

0:33:130:33:15

So this is actually a snack for people

0:33:150:33:17

who don't want to fill themselves up.

0:33:170:33:20

It's like a weenie, weenie, weenie packet of crisps.

0:33:200:33:23

I would much rather pick that up and feel better

0:33:230:33:27

about the way I've eaten and...

0:33:270:33:29

I get that but it's like, "Here's a packet of crisps

0:33:290:33:31

-"with a crisp in it."

-Yeah.

0:33:310:33:33

Yeah, it is the same as other seaweed snacks on the market.

0:33:330:33:37

I think, as it is at the moment,

0:33:370:33:39

you're pioneering in a very risky market.

0:33:390:33:42

You're producing what is, per gram,

0:33:420:33:45

an extraordinarily expensive product.

0:33:450:33:47

I would be more attracted to this business

0:33:470:33:49

if it was starting with the raw seaweed

0:33:490:33:52

and you were doing it locally

0:33:520:33:53

because then it would be an interesting story.

0:33:530:33:55

I really hope you end up producing your own,

0:33:550:33:58

but I'm going to have to leave you to it, I'm afraid.

0:33:580:34:02

-I'm out.

-Thank you very much.

-Thank you.

0:34:020:34:04

Not authentic enough for Nick Jenkins,

0:34:070:34:09

who becomes the first Dragon out.

0:34:090:34:12

Peter Jones has backed everything from hot sauce to noodles,

0:34:120:34:17

but are the numbers attached to this seaweed snack rock-solid?

0:34:170:34:20

So take me through the amount of money

0:34:220:34:24

that's gone into this business.

0:34:240:34:25

We spent, personally, about £275,000.

0:34:250:34:28

-Are you serious?

-Yeah.

-You've spent £270,000?

-Yeah.

0:34:300:34:35

We've built a new factory which is...

0:34:350:34:38

We think is good enough for any supermarket.

0:34:380:34:41

-Do you own the factory?

-No.

0:34:410:34:42

We've built the factory under previous owner's land

0:34:430:34:46

and we have a rent-free agreement.

0:34:460:34:47

You built the factory out and you don't own that factory?

0:34:470:34:50

No, but I have a great relationship with the owners of the land

0:34:500:34:53

-and we have a lease agreement for 20 years.

-I bet you do.

0:34:530:34:55

You've just given them money for the next 20 years in advance

0:34:550:34:59

on the back of a business that you haven't yet properly launched.

0:34:590:35:02

Peter Jones is struggling to get to grips with their strategy,

0:35:070:35:11

but does Touker Suleyman share his concerns?

0:35:110:35:13

Guys, it's all about the brand.

0:35:160:35:19

You are entering a very, very competitive field

0:35:210:35:25

and unless you have the cost of production really low

0:35:250:35:28

and you have an excess capacity that you can really churn out...

0:35:280:35:31

Yeah, we can produce 20,000 packets of seaweed a day

0:35:310:35:34

-in an eight-hour shift.

-And how many are you selling at the moment?

0:35:340:35:37

Not enough at the moment, obviously.

0:35:370:35:39

We're only producing three days a month at the moment

0:35:390:35:41

because we have spare capacity.

0:35:410:35:43

So you actually run the factory three days a month?

0:35:430:35:45

-Yeah, and then we sell the stock then. So we have...

-It's just us.

0:35:450:35:47

-The rest of the time, the factory stays idle?

-Yeah, yeah.

0:35:470:35:51

A factory only operating three days a month

0:35:530:35:56

is small fry for Touker Suleyman.

0:35:560:35:59

Deborah Meaden is a convert to the taste,

0:35:590:36:02

but will she see seaweed as a solid investment?

0:36:020:36:05

If I were you, I would try to do something different.

0:36:080:36:10

I wouldn't do what everybody else is doing.

0:36:110:36:14

I'd turn it into what I would call a snack.

0:36:140:36:17

You know, I've make it edible for me when I'm walking around,

0:36:170:36:20

because I'm not quite sure what it is.

0:36:200:36:23

Nobody buys a snack that does that.

0:36:230:36:25

So I'm afraid I won't be investing. So I'm out.

0:36:290:36:32

I just feel that the consumer is...

0:36:350:36:38

-It's just not there yet.

-OK.

0:36:380:36:41

You need to have a particular palate,

0:36:410:36:44

you need to really yearn for new, exciting, healthy things.

0:36:440:36:48

Of course there is a market for that,

0:36:480:36:50

but it's not a particularly big market. It remains quite niche.

0:36:500:36:53

I don't think we're there yet.

0:36:530:36:55

It's not for me, I'm afraid. I'm sorry, I'm out.

0:36:570:37:00

Sarah Willingham and Deborah Meaden

0:37:030:37:06

cast the business proposition adrift.

0:37:060:37:09

It's down to Touker Suleyman to revive the hopes and aspirations

0:37:090:37:13

of a seaweed harvesting dynasty.

0:37:130:37:15

I'm very concerned that you've got this production facility

0:37:180:37:23

and you've got three days' production per month.

0:37:230:37:25

My advice would be to find out what else can that factory make?

0:37:250:37:30

And keep the brand totally separate, otherwise you'll always lose money.

0:37:300:37:36

I personally think you're very passionate about seaweed,

0:37:360:37:39

I can understand why,

0:37:390:37:41

but I'm not going to be on that journey and I'm out.

0:37:410:37:45

That just leaves me.

0:37:470:37:49

I do like the product.

0:37:540:37:56

Thank you.

0:37:560:37:58

Both of you are incredibly passionate and driven.

0:37:580:38:04

That's a positive thing because people buy people first.

0:38:050:38:09

The issue is that I still can't get my head round why you would spend

0:38:120:38:16

a quarter of a million pounds on rent

0:38:160:38:19

as opposed to buying the very thing

0:38:190:38:21

that actually is an appreciating asset.

0:38:210:38:26

Nobody in their right mind would pay 20 years in advance on a building.

0:38:260:38:29

I've never heard of it in 30 years of business.

0:38:290:38:32

I guess that shows my commitment,

0:38:320:38:33

that I want to be there for 20 years, running a business.

0:38:330:38:36

I think that's bordering on ludicrous.

0:38:360:38:38

We could do something else with the building, obviously.

0:38:410:38:43

It's ours for 20 years.

0:38:430:38:45

So, therefore, we could make different seaweed products

0:38:450:38:47

or even leave the seaweed behind and do other food manufacturing

0:38:470:38:50

-in the premises.

-But that's not our intention.

0:38:500:38:53

We truly believe in this product.

0:38:530:38:54

My grandfather's been in business all his life, my father, my mother.

0:38:540:38:57

We're passionate about being in business and doing the best we can.

0:38:570:39:00

Yeah, but there's a difference between passion

0:39:000:39:02

and the direction of that in business

0:39:020:39:04

and what you get out of it as a result.

0:39:040:39:07

I would get concerned, if I was to invest,

0:39:080:39:11

the speed at which you would make those emotional decisions

0:39:110:39:14

and not really protect the very thing that would be important to me,

0:39:140:39:16

which is my investment.

0:39:160:39:18

I'm not going to make you an offer. So I'm out.

0:39:200:39:23

-OK.

-Thank you.

0:39:250:39:27

So it's all over for the kelp crusaders,

0:39:290:39:32

who failed to take a Dragon back to Wales,

0:39:320:39:35

but still have fire in their belly for the business.

0:39:350:39:39

-We tried.

-Did well. We'll make it.

-We will.

-Yeah, for our boys.

0:39:390:39:44

We're still passionate about our product and about our brand...

0:39:440:39:47

And certainly determined to succeed.

0:39:470:39:49

-OK?

-Good luck.

-Let's do this.

0:40:030:40:06

The final entrepreneur in the Den is a Cornish engineer

0:40:060:40:09

with a passion for building things.

0:40:090:40:12

When I was a kid, playing with Lego that was...

0:40:120:40:15

I've always known that was what I wanted to do.

0:40:150:40:17

I always wanted to make stuff.

0:40:170:40:18

'And because I am passionate about sport,'

0:40:180:40:21

it was a natural progression to work in an area

0:40:210:40:24

to do with sport and fitness.

0:40:240:40:26

So...

0:40:260:40:28

It's all good.

0:40:310:40:32

'We're a small business from Cornwall'

0:40:320:40:34

and we want to take over the world, and why shouldn't we?

0:40:340:40:39

A confident prediction from an inventor with ambition.

0:40:390:40:42

But will the Dragons share his vision?

0:40:430:40:45

Hello, Dragons. My name is Simon Heap

0:40:490:40:52

and I'd like to introduce Rugged Interactive.

0:40:520:40:56

I'm here today to ask you for £100,000

0:40:560:41:00

in return for a 10% equity share in our company.

0:41:000:41:04

Using motivational technology

0:41:060:41:08

and innovative new software techniques,

0:41:080:41:13

we've, erm...

0:41:130:41:16

We've tried to take the best of gamification and competition

0:41:160:41:23

and make exercise more motivational, more fun, more exciting.

0:41:230:41:27

Interactive fitness is just at the beginning of its market growth.

0:41:290:41:33

There is no doubt that, in years to come,

0:41:350:41:38

going into a gym and running on the treadmill or lifting weights

0:41:380:41:43

will become archaic and unusual.

0:41:430:41:46

Our CardioWall, FitMakr and TrailBlazer products

0:41:460:41:50

are now profitable and we expect to triple our turnover next year.

0:41:500:41:55

We sell globally and...

0:42:060:42:09

design and manufacture our products in Cornwall

0:42:090:42:13

and we're very proud to do so.

0:42:130:42:16

I'd now like you to come up and have a go

0:42:160:42:19

with our sports scientist Lucy and our designer Lauren.

0:42:190:42:22

OK, so who would like to have a go?

0:42:230:42:25

TOUKER GROANS

0:42:250:42:27

Futuristic sports equipment inventor Simon Heap

0:42:270:42:30

is looking for £100,000 for a 10% stake

0:42:300:42:33

in his lightpod-bopping business.

0:42:330:42:36

-Do I just go here?

-Yes, you're on this side, you're on that side.

0:42:360:42:39

-Go!

-Hit the red one.

-Just the red one.

0:42:390:42:42

They test various things - stamina, high impact, interval training.

0:42:420:42:47

More speed, less power!

0:42:490:42:50

Faster, faster! Four, three, two, one, zero.

0:42:510:42:55

-You're done.

-64-45!

0:42:550:42:59

Some friendly competition in the Den.

0:42:590:43:01

I might have a go. Sarah, are you going to have a go?

0:43:010:43:03

I'll have a go.

0:43:030:43:04

But when it comes to spotting a business opportunity,

0:43:040:43:07

the gloves are off.

0:43:070:43:08

Boxing gloves.

0:43:080:43:11

This is what I need!

0:43:110:43:12

I might just wear these in the Den constantly.

0:43:140:43:17

Go, go, go!

0:43:170:43:19

-That's good.

-Hit right on the... Right in the middle.

0:43:210:43:24

Oh, it's really even.

0:43:240:43:27

Come on.

0:43:270:43:28

Stop, stop, stop! It's finished!

0:43:280:43:30

-SARAH GROANS

-Deborah wins.

0:43:300:43:33

Deborah wins.

0:43:330:43:34

That's just as well because I get really grumpy when I lose.

0:43:340:43:39

Technology business guru Peter Jones

0:43:390:43:41

is the only Dragon with enough puff left to ask the first questions.

0:43:410:43:45

-OK, so that's game one.

-Yes.

0:43:480:43:50

And what's the difference between the other two?

0:43:500:43:52

So they all run off the same core technology.

0:43:520:43:54

-So, it's the same idea with that?

-Exactly, yes. Yeah.

0:43:540:43:57

It's in a different body. It's more suitable for different environments.

0:43:570:44:00

So that particularly goes well in schools

0:44:000:44:02

and trampoline centres, recently.

0:44:020:44:05

And, obviously, the climbing wall is for climbing,

0:44:050:44:08

so it goes well in climbing centres and in schools.

0:44:080:44:11

It's the same thing.

0:44:120:44:14

And if you had it up there, you'd be climbing along and around it.

0:44:140:44:17

Can I just feel the...? I just want to feel the grip on it, actually.

0:44:190:44:23

Because that is the deal-breaker, isn't it?

0:44:230:44:28

The thing is, these are really easy for kids to hold on to,

0:44:280:44:30

so they forget about how much they're using their body

0:44:300:44:33

and they scamper around the place and they love it.

0:44:330:44:35

OK, that's good.

0:44:350:44:37

OK, so you turned over, the most recent year,

0:44:370:44:40

-and your best year is 250,000 revenue?

-Yes.

0:44:400:44:42

Can I call my advocate at this point?

0:44:420:44:46

Would that be OK?

0:44:460:44:49

-What does he do?

-He's new business and sales.

0:44:490:44:52

-What's his name?

-Martin Worth.

-OK, let's get Martin up, then.

0:44:520:44:55

Thank you.

0:44:550:44:56

With a financial grilling looming,

0:44:580:45:00

it appears the sports equipment innovator

0:45:000:45:03

isn't prepared to take on Peter Jones alone.

0:45:030:45:06

Enter Simon's business associate, Martin Worth.

0:45:060:45:11

Will he be able to provide clarity on the fitness of the finances?

0:45:110:45:15

-This is Martin.

-Hi, Martin.

-Hello.

0:45:150:45:19

So, I was just asking Simon, the last 12 months you've turned over...

0:45:190:45:23

-Generated sales of 250,000?

-Yes.

0:45:230:45:25

And he then, I don't know why,

0:45:250:45:28

but seemed to get a little bit worried and then called for you.

0:45:280:45:30

-Are you his safety blanket?

-I don't know.

0:45:300:45:33

I've never been called that before.

0:45:330:45:35

So, talk me through the last... This last year, 250,000 in revenue.

0:45:360:45:40

What was the gross profit that you made?

0:45:400:45:42

So, in the last 12 months, we anticipate posting...

0:45:420:45:46

Just about breaking even on that figure.

0:45:460:45:49

Was that what I asked you?

0:45:490:45:51

-Gross profit.

-Oh, sorry, the gross profit.

0:45:510:45:55

In the last... Well, the...

0:45:550:45:57

The gross profit that we're posting at the moment

0:45:570:45:59

is around about 50% on the turnover.

0:45:590:46:04

-So around about 125,000?

-Yes.

0:46:040:46:08

-You've valued your business at £1 million.

-That's right.

-Yes.

0:46:100:46:14

And you're definitely old enough to be slightly sensible.

0:46:140:46:17

Yes. Careful.

0:46:170:46:19

So, what's... What am I missing?

0:46:190:46:22

Well, it's been an incredible run rate over the last quarter.

0:46:220:46:25

Our run at the moment is £50,000 a month

0:46:250:46:28

and that is growing month on month.

0:46:280:46:30

-Shall we go through the balance sheet?

-Go ahead.

0:46:320:46:34

Ask me questions and I'll respond.

0:46:340:46:36

I'm not an accountant. You know, numbers... I'm an engineer.

0:46:360:46:39

My background is not, you know, numbers.

0:46:390:46:41

So, you know, I've left that to others.

0:46:410:46:43

What's the number at the bottom of your balance sheet?

0:46:430:46:45

-Is it positive or negative?

-Positive.

-How much?

0:46:450:46:48

Obviously, that varies, but, at the moment, it is...

0:46:480:46:53

Roughly £10,000.

0:46:530:46:55

Actually, it's a bit less than that.

0:46:550:46:57

-Simon, do you not know?

-I don't know exactly.

-No?

0:46:570:47:00

The trouble is, if you put enough ish-es into a balance sheet,

0:47:000:47:03

-you can end up being several hundred thousand pounds out.

-Yes, yeah.

0:47:030:47:07

So, I'm asking you. You don't really know, do you?

0:47:070:47:10

I don't.

0:47:100:47:11

Despite the arrival of backup in the Den,

0:47:150:47:18

it hasn't saved Simon from an edgy exchange over the balance sheet.

0:47:180:47:23

Will Touker Suleyman go any easier on the business duo?

0:47:230:47:28

How big is your forward order book in money terms?

0:47:290:47:33

In money terms for the next year, we're looking at 800,000.

0:47:330:47:37

-Physically written orders?

-We've...

0:47:370:47:40

No, no, no, physical orders, written down, confirmed -

0:47:400:47:44

-what have you got?

-We've got several commitments...

0:47:440:47:46

No, no, no! Physical orders in money terms, signed, sealed and delivered,

0:47:460:47:51

-that would confirm?

-Yes.

-How much?

0:47:510:47:53

We've got commitment on the 800,000.

0:47:530:47:56

So your next year's turnover would be in excess of,

0:47:560:47:59

what, £800,000-1 million?

0:47:590:48:01

That's our estimate, yes.

0:48:010:48:02

You have not got £800,000 worth of committed orders, have you?

0:48:040:48:08

Can I ask the boss?

0:48:080:48:10

Have you got £800,000 worth of committed orders?

0:48:100:48:13

-Can I answer you in a different way?

-No, just... It's a yes or no.

0:48:130:48:15

We... We have a forward...

0:48:150:48:18

We have a forward order book for...

0:48:180:48:20

-800,000?

-No, for half a million.

0:48:200:48:22

Our pipeline is half a million.

0:48:220:48:23

-Your pipeline?

-Yes.

0:48:230:48:25

You have not got forward orders of 800,000, have you?

0:48:250:48:28

No.

0:48:280:48:29

Confusion around what's been promised

0:48:330:48:35

and what's been confirmed has left the Den disgruntled.

0:48:350:48:39

The Dragon who made her millions in holiday parks

0:48:400:48:43

wants to drill down into what's driving their sales to date.

0:48:430:48:47

Can I ask - how much do they cost? How much do they sell for?

0:48:470:48:50

This one here, depending on the...

0:48:500:48:53

The warranty and the support, is around about £8,000-9,000.

0:48:530:48:57

So, what I'm interested in is how that will enhance my revenue.

0:48:570:49:01

Why would that make my business in a gym better?

0:49:010:49:04

OK, so... So, you know, gyms are boring.

0:49:040:49:07

They have a high churn rate.

0:49:070:49:08

People go to the gym and I think it is something like two thirds

0:49:080:49:11

of gym users buy a membership and never go back.

0:49:110:49:13

I can cut this short and say it makes it more interesting...

0:49:130:49:16

-It makes it more interesting.

-..when you go to a gym.

0:49:160:49:18

-It makes it more compelling.

-OK, OK.

0:49:180:49:20

I've played something really similar to this on Brighton Pier.

0:49:200:49:24

-Yes.

-I've played it many, many, many times.

0:49:240:49:27

-Because it's a lot of fun.

-It is.

0:49:270:49:28

So, what is your USP?

0:49:280:49:30

You know, as a business, our USP is our...

0:49:300:49:33

Our ability to create and innovate.

0:49:330:49:35

One thing we don't talk about is it is Internet-connected,

0:49:370:49:39

it goes up to the Cloud.

0:49:390:49:41

But why is that a benefit?

0:49:410:49:42

It's not a benefit for the majority of people,

0:49:420:49:44

but for professional sport and health care and schools,

0:49:440:49:47

it's a real benefit because it means

0:49:470:49:49

they can track longitudinal performance.

0:49:490:49:51

You know, this isn't just a British business.

0:49:510:49:53

This is a British business selling worldwide.

0:49:530:49:56

We know it's popular in America.

0:49:560:49:58

We know it's popular in China.

0:49:580:49:59

We know it's popular in France.

0:49:590:50:01

We're ahead of the game. Nobody else is where we are.

0:50:010:50:03

The entrepreneurs have come back fighting.

0:50:070:50:10

But for one Dragon in particular, it's wasted energy.

0:50:100:50:13

As you probably know, I was at university business school

0:50:160:50:21

with your business partner, Harry Stevens.

0:50:210:50:24

So, according to the rules of the Den,

0:50:240:50:26

I won't be able to invest.

0:50:260:50:29

I didn't actually know that you were coming in today

0:50:290:50:33

and I didn't say anything until the end

0:50:330:50:35

because I just thought I would sit back and...

0:50:350:50:37

And watch the fireworks.

0:50:370:50:39

-But we will let nature take its course.

-Thank you.

0:50:390:50:42

But I'm out.

0:50:420:50:44

Den rules dictate that the Dragons can't know anything

0:50:450:50:48

about the business beforehand, so Nick Jenkins walks away.

0:50:480:50:53

But are Simon's products innovative enough

0:50:530:50:56

for tech pioneer Peter Jones to overcome his concerns

0:50:560:51:00

about their order book?

0:51:000:51:02

-Martin, we didn't start off on the right foot.

-No.

0:51:020:51:04

I think the excitement - you got a bit carried away with it.

0:51:040:51:07

But I've got to say, I really like it.

0:51:070:51:10

And I don't think it's a game, potentially,

0:51:120:51:14

that will become repetitive and boring, either,

0:51:140:51:16

because it's got that whole cardiovascular fitness piece.

0:51:160:51:20

It's not a game.

0:51:200:51:22

You know, this is basically to try and get you healthy.

0:51:220:51:27

The thing I do like also, it's typically, quintessentially British.

0:51:280:51:32

I love it and I love it so much, I want to make you an offer.

0:51:340:51:38

But I want to make you an offer on the basis

0:51:390:51:41

that I do think it works best in terms of collaboration,

0:51:410:51:44

so I'm going to offer you half of the money...

0:51:440:51:47

..but for that, I want 15% of the company.

0:51:490:51:51

And I'll offer the other half.

0:51:530:51:55

It's an extraordinary turnaround, with two Dragons ready to invest,

0:51:580:52:03

although asking for 20% more of the business than was on offer.

0:52:030:52:07

Has Deborah Meaden also seen anything in the game of throws

0:52:070:52:12

to tempt her to invest?

0:52:120:52:15

Do you know the thing, for me, you actually got me very, very early on,

0:52:180:52:22

and it's the fact that it was watching these two play

0:52:220:52:26

that made Sarah and I think, "We want a go".

0:52:260:52:30

I've seen games that work and games that don't work

0:52:300:52:33

and I've seen why they work and why they don't work and this is...

0:52:330:52:35

This has got something about it.

0:52:350:52:38

So, I, too, am going to make you an offer.

0:52:380:52:41

I'm going to offer you half of the money

0:52:450:52:47

and I want 15% of the business.

0:52:470:52:49

Thank you.

0:52:520:52:54

OK, we need somebody that understands global business

0:52:540:52:59

and, you know, can make those deals happen.

0:52:590:53:02

And, you know, I don't want to sort of, say,

0:53:020:53:06

"Peter, give me your CV," but, you know...

0:53:060:53:09

I wouldn't.

0:53:090:53:10

I'm amazed. You must have done your research.

0:53:100:53:15

Yeah, but I'd like to hear, you know, not in terms of...

0:53:150:53:17

Not your experience...

0:53:170:53:18

No, I can give you all the words till I'm blue in the face.

0:53:180:53:21

-Yeah.

-All right, you tell me, what does Peter's global business do?

0:53:210:53:24

Well, international technology and expansion

0:53:240:53:27

and exploitation of new ideas around the world.

0:53:270:53:29

-So, you know...

-So, which bit of that...?

0:53:290:53:33

-No, listen.

-That sounds like a slam dunk to me! I mean...

0:53:330:53:36

Don't blow it... Don't blow it now.

0:53:360:53:38

I need to declare my hand. I'm going to give you

0:53:400:53:43

just a little piece of advice now - you could blow this.

0:53:430:53:46

I do think you've got amazing offers.

0:53:460:53:48

So, I'm out. Don't blow it.

0:53:500:53:52

-Go and talk to the wall.

-Go and climb the wall.

0:53:580:54:00

-Sensibly.

-We're going to talk to the wall.

0:54:000:54:01

(Of all the questions in all the world...!)

0:54:030:54:06

With Sarah Willingham and Nick Jenkins out,

0:54:080:54:11

there are three Dragon offers to consider.

0:54:110:54:14

But they're demanding 30% of the company,

0:54:140:54:18

three times as much as the 10% the entrepreneurs wanted

0:54:180:54:21

to exchange for the cash.

0:54:210:54:23

They're getting a great deal.

0:54:230:54:25

I think 30% is a little high.

0:54:310:54:34

I think, you know, if you could come back with a lower percentage,

0:54:340:54:38

that would... That would seal the deal.

0:54:380:54:40

We were looking somewhere around 15.

0:54:420:54:44

I mean, we are... We are way apart, aren't we?

0:54:460:54:48

You're 15 and we're 30. That's way off.

0:54:480:54:51

But there's a middle point, isn't there?

0:54:510:54:53

Deborah, would you do anything if your investment was repaid?

0:55:010:55:04

Yeah.

0:55:070:55:09

Yeah. Yeah, that could be an option, a buy-back.

0:55:090:55:12

-Cos this is all about risk.

-Yes.

0:55:120:55:14

The minute I receive back my investment, I will give you back 5%.

0:55:140:55:19

So, that leaves me then with 10% in the company.

0:55:190:55:22

I would agree that, but I would put a timescale on it.

0:55:220:55:25

-OK.

-Within the next two years, Peter, would that sound sensible?

0:55:250:55:28

Deborah Meaden and Peter Jones have joined forces to clinch the deal.

0:55:310:55:35

Touker Suleyman is now flying solo.

0:55:360:55:39

Will he up the ante?

0:55:390:55:41

Touker, where are you here?

0:55:430:55:46

I would say, I'll give you the whole 100,000 for 20%.

0:55:480:55:52

HE EXHALES

0:55:520:55:53

A bold late move from outsourcing supremo Touker Suleyman,

0:55:550:55:59

who undercuts the other Dragons

0:55:590:56:01

by letting them keep more of their company upfront.

0:56:010:56:05

-30% with a 10% buy-back...

-Yes.

0:56:050:56:09

Thank you for your offer...

0:56:140:56:16

..but I think we're going to go with Deborah and Peter.

0:56:220:56:25

-Excellent!

-Wow!

0:56:250:56:27

-SARAH:

-Well done. Congratulations.

-Well done.

0:56:270:56:30

The entrepreneurs snatch victory from the jaws of defeat...

0:56:300:56:34

-Well done.

-Lovely.

-Glad we got there in the end. It's very exciting.

0:56:340:56:37

..and they walk away with £100,000

0:56:370:56:40

and two Dragons well-suited

0:56:400:56:42

to take the interactive fitness machines global.

0:56:420:56:45

'It was up to us not to mess it up.'

0:56:470:56:49

There was a point where perhaps it looked

0:56:500:56:52

as though it was going that way but, you know, I think it was...

0:56:520:56:55

They understood and they got it.

0:56:550:56:57

Well done, guys.

0:56:570:56:59

Well, Touker, you put the cat amongst the pigeons then.

0:56:590:57:01

-I thought it was going wrong at one point with Martin.

-So did I.

0:57:010:57:04

It was the structure I was worried about - about who they employ.

0:57:040:57:07

Was that why you got so worried, you offered 100,000 to undercut us?

0:57:070:57:10

A triumphant end to a pitch that looked for a while

0:57:180:57:22

like it was going totally the opposite way.

0:57:220:57:25

Three Dragons vying for a business

0:57:250:57:27

is a fitting way to conclude tonight's show

0:57:270:57:30

and, indeed, this current series.

0:57:300:57:33

The Den has opened its doors to a myriad of entrepreneurs

0:57:330:57:36

and an accomplished few have secured investment.

0:57:360:57:39

Along the way, the Dragons have encountered the innovative,

0:57:390:57:43

the ingenious and the outright implausible.

0:57:430:57:47

-That...

-Oh, he's going to break it.

0:57:470:57:50

Dragons, I'm a multimillionaire.

0:57:500:57:53

-I don't need money.

-I'm oot!

0:57:530:57:56

It's quite good, isn't it?

0:57:580:57:59

Oh, yes, now we're talking.

0:57:590:58:02

-You all right there, Nick?

-I've been reborn!

0:58:020:58:05

How about if we just cut to the chase?

0:58:050:58:07

Do you understand you are standing in Dragons' Den?

0:58:070:58:10

Don't blow it.

0:58:100:58:12

You worked in three investment banks. God help us!

0:58:120:58:15

I think you're just a scaredy-cat.

0:58:150:58:17

Ohh!

0:58:170:58:18

I like what I see.

0:58:190:58:21

I think you've got a cracking business.

0:58:210:58:22

I'm going to make you an offer.

0:58:220:58:24

I would prefer it that you didn't try and negotiate

0:58:240:58:26

and then at the end of all of this, we can share the honey.

0:58:260:58:29

-Bee-hive yourself.

-Like it.

0:58:290:58:32

Excellent!

0:58:320:58:33

Well done.

0:58:330:58:34

Oh, I'm really pleased.

0:58:340:58:36

Thank you.

0:58:360:58:37

Thank you.

0:58:370:58:38

Thank you!

0:58:390:58:41

-Unbelievable!

-Brilliant!

0:58:410:58:43

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