15/02/2017 BBC Business Live

Live from London, that's our top story on Wednesday, 15th February.

The people of Greece take to the streets

The country's economy is shrinking, but its creditors

Also in the programme - up, up and away, as India breaks

a world record and shoots 104 satellites in one go into space.

We're going to look at how that country is becoming a serious

It was another record setting day on Wall Street.

Also in the programme, finding a diamond in the rough!

We'll meet the woman whose company is turning waste into energy.

Lloyds of London is banning drinking during work hours.

Today we want to know, is the liquid lunch a thing of the past?

Is it ever acceptable to drink during the working day?

The EU's top economist, Pierre Moscovici, is visiting

Greece today to talk about the country's debt problem.

He's trying to break the deadlock over the release

Athens and its international creditors have been wrangling

for months over the issue, and failure to reach agreement has

Yesterday it was revealed that the Greek

economy unexpectedly shrank in the last three months of 2016.

So what options does the country have?

Greece is now under increased pressure to step up its economic

reforms, including on painful things like cutting pension

Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund says Greece needs more

money, give it more cash in order to get its economy back on track.

But that's not going down well with the Eurozone,

which says it's already written off enough Greek debt.

The Greek government faces debt repayments

And they can't afford those payments unless they meet the conditions

being asked by the lenders and in return, the lenders

will agree to release more money from the country's

Vicky Pryce, economist at the Centre for Economics

It is not Aaron's fault, but he has been reciting the same story as we

all have time and time again. Here we are yet again, Greece having

problems paying its debts. What is to be done and why are we still

here? There have been issues in the way Greece has been implementing the

reforms. What's been going on, there has been an agreed third bail out.

The IMF decided it wasn't going to take part in it until it satisfied

itself that Greece were doing the right things and that the debt was

sustainable. And there has been review after review, we're in the

second review for the third bail out. This review has not been

concluded because nobody is convinced that Greece is really

doing the right things and this review should have been completed

months ago and there is a crucial meeting on 20th February which needs

to decide what happens with Greece next? It isn't the case of a new

bail out, it is really having the extra bit of the bail out that was

meant to be coming a few months ago really which hasn't been forthcoming

yet. We have sat here over the years, right and spoken about this.

Before Brexit came along, we used to talk about Grexit. That was the word

on the street and people used to go, "Europe will never let another go

leave the Union." Now Brexit is happening, I'm wondering is there a

mindset in Europe which makes it easier to go, "It's OK if Greece

does leave." I think it is the opposite. Given that there is going

to be Brexit under some conditions which, of course, still have to be

agreed the last thing that Europe needs now is to have further

disintegration. There it is facing Trump who has been pretty critical

of what the EU does and to see a country like Greece leave and the

whole Europe project therefore being put into question will be pretty,

pretty hard. Sorry Ben, Europe could be a different political landscape.

We have election ins France, the Netherlands and Germany and you

could get people in power that won't have the appetite to give anymore

money to Greece? That's true, of course, it isn't anymore. It is the

bail out that was agreed before. That's what we're talking about, but

yes, of course, we have the elections in the Netherlands in

March. It is one of the reasons why everyone is trying to get agreement

before the elections. So perhaps we get something by mid- March, there

will be something on 20th February which says yes, we have a way

what we will see after that, we have what we will see after that, we

the elections and indeed they have the elections and indeed they have

the French and the Germans, if there is any serious unsettling sort of

movement in Europe, that is going to in many ways help the populist

parties which the current players don't really want to see. I think

they will try hard to get a compromise. We were talking about

whether Greece would leave the European Union. If not quite leaving

the European Union, do you think we could foresee bli see Greece leaving

the single currency? When you look at opinion polls which used to be

very, very positive in relation to the euro and Europe in Greece, they

have swung a little bit. Now, you get some polls which suggest the

majority of Greeks want to get out of it because of the pain it has

caused them over a number of years. I think there may well be a

possibility of a snap election coming after this agreement is

settled and I think the euro, or being part of Europe, may well play

a part in whatever it is that particularly the Syriza party the

one in power, maybe going to the electorate with. So we may well see

some of that, but overall the Greeks will be conservative. They feel they

should be attached to Europe. They are concerned about developments in

Russia and everywhere and of course, so does the rest of Europe in fact.

Thank you. Shares in Toshiba tumbled

further during trade The firm's chairman resigned

on Tuesday, after the company announced a $3.4 billion net loss

for the year. The company had announced it

expected to take a $6.3 billion writedown at its troubled

US nuclear business. Dutch brewer Heineken has reported

a rise in its organic net profit, The world's second biggest brewer

expects to see further revenue growth this year,

but warns economic conditions Facebook is launching an app that

will allow users to stream videos in their news feed through set-top

boxes to their TV. The move could allow it

to eventually better compete with the likes of YouTube

and traditional television channels India has entered the history books

by successfully launching 104 satellites on a single mission,

smashing the previous record of 37 satellites

launched by Russia in 2014. An incredible accomplishment for

India, but it is really highlighting that country's presence, I guess,

right in this space race? That's right. I mean there is a lot of

Indians feeling very proud today, Aaron, but it is not just about

pride. This is about money as well. About six months ago I was at the

Indian Space Agency headquarters in Bangalore. At that time they

launched 49 foreign satellites into space and earned $120 million doing

so. Today the number has gone up by 101, 101 satellites were on that

rocket. It puts India on a firm footing in the global market as far

as launch vehicles for satellites are concerned and there is huge

demand for it because companies today want to not just launch one

satellites or two satellites into space, but 20, 50, 100 satellites.

Astonishing stuff. Thank you for that. We'll talk to you soon.

Let's take a look at the Asian markets.

All helped by another wow on the Dow! Another record session on Wall

Street. Wall Street was boosted by the big boss of America's Central

Bank, Janet Yellen who spoke yesterday, when she speaks, markets

stop! And we listen. Everybody listens to every word that comes out

of her mouth. Yesterday she kind of flagged a possible interest rate

rise next month which kept the US dollar near three week highs. Let's

look at the European markets because the market watchers were expecting

the same enthusiasm to continue in our trading session over here and

that's exactly what is happening right now. Ben.

Joining us is Richard Lewis, Head of Global Equities

Aaron was mentioning the testimony from Janet Yellen to Congress. The

markets seeming to like what she had to say? Yes, this is one of the semi

annual testimonies. It is a well watched event and Mrs Yellen is

carefully managing market expectation and here we saw another

change in nuance from Mrs Yellen hinting at further rate rises to

come, interest rate rises to come this year, but nothing really that

the market wasn't expecting. So what she has done with these comments is

really confirm the markets, say to the markets, you're about right with

your expectations of where you are. And European markets responding to

what we were talking about with Greece as well? Yes. Well, I think,

the most powerful influence for the European markets is what Mrs Yellen

says. There is a secondary story with Greece which is once again, you

know, this dilemma that the EU has with the Greek bail out and it is

where we were two years ago and I don't suppose that much will happen

this side of the German elections of any note, but what all this

stalemate does do is it ensures that Mr Draghi, the chairman of the ECB

will keep interest rates at negative rates and he will keep pumping QE

and that's the most important message for European financial

markets. In a very bizarre sense, the Greek dilemma, which is a Greek

tragedy for the Greek people, but the Greek dilemma is proving

remarkably positive for the European financial assets because of the

effect on the ECB. You mentioned Draghi, we mentioned Janet Yellen.

Never before, I'm asking you this as a question, have we seen where the

markets are so focussed on central banks? Yes. Yes! It is the only game

in town. It has been since the great financial crisis. Exactly. The

central banks have intervened very heavily in financial markets for six

years and the financial markets are now completely dependant on that

intervention. OK. You will come back and take us through some of the

papers. All right, we'll talk to you very soon, thank you, Richard.

Still to come, turning rubbish into a resource.

We'll hear from the woman whose company makes energy from waste.

You're with Business Live from BBC News.

Sick pay and sickness benefits is costing state and businesses

around ?23 billion per year, according to a new

They are calling for a more flexible Fit Pay to be introduced

which they say would be suitable for modern times.

Joe Dromey is senior research fellow at the IPPR.

Did you say Fit Pay? What is that? Fit Pay is a new benefit we are

recommending which would help keep more people in touch with work when

they developed a health or mental health condition. The government has

been trying to reduce the number of people on sickness related benefits

for many years and they have failed. We argue this is because too many

people who developed a hell for mental health condition just fall

out of work and end up on benefits. We are talking for more support from

the state and employers to keep people well in work and to keep

people in touch with work and Fit Pay is one of the ways we think this

can be done. If a company like the idea you have suggested and they

want to implement it, how easy is it? When systems are in place, it

can be a real headache trying to change to something different. We

believe it would be relatively easy to implement so if an employee

develops a hell for mental health condition and the GB agrees it is

best for them to reduce their hours, -- a health or mental health

condition. They can reduce their hours with the agreement of their

employer and Fit Pay would ease the loss of earnings and also if an

individual has fallen out of work completely but wants to return on a

part-time basis then Fit Pay, this flexible sick pay, if you will, will

help support them back into work and make sure that their income is

always better off in work. We hope that it would be better for

employees and employers, who spent ?9 billion per year on sick pay at

the moment, and better for the public finances. Thank you for

joining us. We are trying to... You know what?

You aren't. The person who sits down is the person who has to deal with a

tablet. I've just fixed it for you. We should talk about Lloyd's

stopping the boozy lunch. We will talk about that later. But I wanted

your opinion. Is on the Business Live page, even if we can't show you

right now! Our top story - the EU's top

economist, Pierre Moscovici, is visiting Greece today to talk

about the country's debt problem. Yesterday, it was revealed

that the Greek economy unexpectedly shrank in the last three months

of 2016, but the country is facing increased pressure to step

up its economic reforms, including painful things

like cutting pension But they are not doing it. They

promised to do it for some time but they haven't.

Turning waste into energy might seem like the ultimate efficiency.

What could be greater than using the stuff we throw

But it's not always as easy as that, with waste often having to be

transported great distances before it can be processed

Well, our next guest thinks she's cracked that conundrum.

Sandra Sassow has created two patented products,

They use technology which converts food and animal waste

And the company has just struck a near ?1 billion deal in India -

Sandra Sassow is the co-founder and CEO of SEaB Energy.

Great to have you with us. It is like the three stooge... No, not

three! We will be more polite from here on in. I've got to ask because

you worked on the Hubble telescope navigation systems and now you are

doing this. Can you tell us how, for dummies, like me, how it works? It

is almost the same as the Hubble space telescope, going out into the

distance, taking waste that is local and converting it. It is a bacterial

process. The bacteria it the waste in the shipping containers. Then it

produces biogas which is then converted in an engine to

electricity and we capture the water from the waist so if you have food

waste, which is 80% water, you can take the 80% that you are

recapturing and turn it into a water resource for the site as well. Who

is buying into the idea? Do you have any big customers who have said they

liked the sound of it and they are going to install it? Absolutely, we

started selling the production version of the product last year and

we have closed sales in four countries. We have the NHS in

Southampton, that has taken one, to take the waste from the site and

produce electricity for the hospital, saving them money, giving

them more money to do other things related to health care. We have a

large corporate in Manhattan that has retrofitted one, or is

retrofitting one, into one of their existing iconic buildings in the

city so a Fortune 50. We have got a client in Portugal. Is it expensive

to get started, though? It's not, it to get started, though? It's not, it

is a plug and play system, it arrives ready to go. What would it

cost me if I wanted one? It depends where but it will give you a three

to five year payback, so the systems range from ?140,000, up to ?400,000,

depending on the size of the system, amount of waste you are going to be

converting into electricity. How much space does it take up?

It is a shipping container? And you just put it in? So you don't need

planning permission? Some places, you do and some you don't. Some

places require extra permits. It depends on where you are in the

world and what the regulations are. Is this the kind of technology that

over time you can shrink so we could put it... It's a bit hard to have a

shipping container next to the house. Although it depends how big

it is. We have shrunk it, if you think about it because right now,

waste is converted in big centralised facilities that tend to

be outside the urban environment so you are trucking waste to those

sites. We have shrunk it into something that can fit in an urban

environment and can be placed into the megacities that are expanding

around the world. We have taken it down into 20 foot shipping

containers. If you take that and shrink it down, we are trying, we

will go smaller when we can but technology and supply chain is

keeping us where we are. It is quite different from where you started

working on the Hubble space telescope. How did you make the

transition? Do you miss the Hubble work? It is all tech and there is as

much tech in this as there was and what I did there but just applied

differently. You must get a different reaction from people when

you say I worked with people on the Hubble space telescope and now I

work with waste. We got an award from Nasa, choosing us as one of the

nine tech firms in the world that was doing something advanced in the

waste sector and they took a view that that was advancing where the

world was going. They are looking at what we're doing as they closed loop

environment for long haul space flight. Who knows? I might go back

to space work in the future. Thank you for joining us. Great stuff.

Thank you for coming on. In a moment, we'll take a look

through the Business Pages, but first here's a quick reminder

of how to get in touch with us. The Business Live page

is where you can stay ahead of all the day's

breaking business use. We will keep you up-to-date

with all the latest details, with insight and analysis

from the BBC's team of editors Get involved on the BBC

Business Live web page, bbc.com/business, on Twitter

@BBCBusiness and you can find us Business Live on TV and online,

whenever you need to know. Joining us is Richard Lewis,

Head of Global Equities He has come back into the studio to

talk through some of the stories in the papers and there is one that has

got people talking a lot on Twitter about Lloyds of London banning...

Come on, when did you last have a boozy lunch? A long time ago because

I thought this thing had gone from the City under competitive pressures

but obviously there are still one or two areas where people still have a

drink at lunch time. We have got a feud tweets and thank you very much

for them, Erica says, "Can't understand why people feel the need

to drink during the working day". Erica does not work for the BBC!

Anthony says, "I thought those days had long gone", as you say. Alex

says, "If it is one during unpaid lunch break, I don't see a problem".

"Every Time I have a couple of Jack Daniels, I start singing show tunes

which is not good for the office". Let's move on... The satellite

launch in India. A phenomenal achievement, I'm sure launching 104

satellites is pretty difficult but I think what it shows is for somewhere

like India, a developing market like India does not go through the

industrialisation faith that the Western world did because these

countries can see the destination. They don't have to go through the

process, they jump from being quite underdeveloped to being right at the

forefront of technology in some cases and that is what this is all

about. Interesting point because we have been covering this all morning

and we have seen lots of tweets and so forth and questions have been

raised, some people have said, hang on, India has launched this amazing

rocket and has this programme and yet something like 150 million

Indians still don't have a Paul Allott. Yes, and probably 100

million Indians with engineering degrees. -- 150 million Indians

still don't have a toilet. But there's a lot of talented people in

India. Goldman Sachs shares shattering a 10-year record hitting

a new closing high. Is there any stopping the Trump trade rally? This

is a Trump trade squared, right? There's been a couple of personnel

moves that the market picks up on which looked very favourable to

Goldman Sachs. The first is that the presence of Gary Cowan, the former

president of Goldman Sachs, is Donald Trump's right-hand man when

it comes to advising on industry and financial regulation. The second

yesterday was the resignation of a very respected man called down to

Rouleau from the Federal Reserve who was a bit of a regulatory Hawks at

the confluence of those moves suggest to the market that the

regulation will go in Goldman Sachs' favour. And the man who was

confirmed, or 17 years at Goldman Sachs. It is a very well-connected

firm! Especially now! Thank you for joining us.

There will be more business news throughout the day on the BBC Live

webpage and on World Business Report.

Hello. Feeling very pleasant way you have the sunshine once again but

there will be a bit more cloud around than yesterday and