Browse content similar to 12/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. This story may have | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
been running for days, but not an hour seems to go by without another | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
astonishing development in this phone-hacking story. This morning, | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
Gordon Brown told the BBC he was reduced to tears when News | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
International published that his son, Fraser, had cystic fibrosis, | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
and then launched a full-throated attack on their links to what he | :00:41. | :00:51. | |
:00:51. | :00:52. | ||
called "the criminal underworld". This is the scene right now in the | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
Home Affairs Select Committee, where they've been grilling the | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
policemen in charge of the original investigation. We'll bring you the | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
very latest on what's been said. And we will be talking about other | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
political news! There is some, you know?! Today, the Government's | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
going to say how its going to keep carbon emissions down, fuel prices | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
low and generate enough electricity to keep the lights on, all at the | :01:13. | :01:22. | |
same time! We'll try to find out just how they're going to do it. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
All that in the next half an hour. With us for the duration, former | :01:26. | :01:34. | |
Liberal Democrat leader, Charles Kennedy. He was then promoted to be | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
Lord Rector of the University of Glasgow, a far more important | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
decisions. It is rather nice, you calling me Lord something, I could | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
get used to that. Well, I wouldn't! Indeed not! | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
First, as Andrew said, every day is an extraordinary day in this whole | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
phone-hacking saga. Today is no exception. Early this morning, the | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
former Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, gave his reaction to allegations | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
that his personal life had been intruded upon by journalists | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
working for News International. had my bank account broken into. I | :02:07. | :02:15. | |
had my lawyers' files effectively blacked, with someone getting | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
information from my lawyers. My tax returns went missing and one point. | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
Medical records had been broken into. I don't know how all this | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
happened, but I know that in two of these instances, there is absolute | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
proof that News International was involved in hiring people to get | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
this information. I do know also that the people that they work with, | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
because this is what really concerns me most, are criminals, | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
known criminals, criminals with records. Criminals who sometimes | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
have records of violence as well as fraud. These links with the | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
criminal underworld mean that there is nothing, I think, that a serious | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
organisation can say, when it is alleged that they are operating | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
underhand tactics, by using criminal elements. People will | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
rightly say, how can a reputable news organisation in this country | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
run their affairs by using known criminals to carry out much of the | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
work? News International put out a | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
statement basically saying "no comment" to all of that. Although | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
they did insist that their information about Fraser Brown had | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
not been obtained illegally. How significant is this Gordon Brown | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
intervention? It is another nail in the coffin. As every day goes by, | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
there is another outrage. An innocent child, for heaven's sake, | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
who is born with a terrible condition like that. There is no | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
real legitimate public interest in that, however the material was | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
granted. Unless the parents had decided to talk about it, which | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
they did not. I think it is bad for them. Having said that, and there | :03:57. | :04:05. | |
will be 110% sympathy for the Browns in this issue, and I share | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
it. News International say no comment. I think if I was in Gordon | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
par shoes, I would have no comment be on the statement I made last | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
night -- Gordon's shoes. wouldn't you, and why is he? | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
would do so on a personal basis, I would feel distressed about this | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
coming into the public domain, and I would leave it at that. People | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
sometimes feel the need to talk to television cameras, maybe get | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
something off their chest. There is quite a lot of swelling and | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
discussion going about the village of Westminster over these past few | :04:39. | :04:49. | |
:04:49. | :04:50. | ||
days. Others had a lot of this stuff come up before the general | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
election, given the tightness of the result, would have influence | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
things in a Labour's direction. I think that is fanciful but there is | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
an element of psychology at work. Is this an element of revenge for a | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
man who feels personally slighted and attacked? I don't understand | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
the feeling. It drove him to tears, then he goes to a wedding, he goes | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
to a summer party. In 2009, he tells the Guardian, I have regular | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
communications with Rupert Murdoch, as you would imagine. He has the | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
most enormous personal regard for Rupert Murdoch, he told the | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
interviewer. There is nothing unusual in the prime minister | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
talking to Rupert Murdoch. That was before The Sun turned. On | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
the same day as Mr Brown made his last speech as Prime Minister to | :05:39. | :05:46. | |
the Labour Party conference, Cade - - came out against him. I was there | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
at the time. We were in no doubt as to how furious Mr Brown was, how | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
angry he was, how betrayed he felt, by papers that had supported him | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
and Mr Blair before. And timed with such a detonation effect, on the | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
morning of the big speech. There must be a great residual bitterness, | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
there is no doubt about that. Having said that, let's face it, | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
politicians across the spectrum have been far too supine, not just | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
with News International, but with loads of titles. We are all chasing | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
approval, complimentary remarks, as close as we can get to newspapers, | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
saying vote for this party, that party. That has always been the way | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
of things. Have you always found yourself having showers the morning | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
after, thinking I wish I didn't do that yesterday, cosying up to the | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
newspapers, but I was frightened not to? Certainly not with News | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
International, I never expended any energy with the Liberal Democrats, | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
in my day -- they never expended any energy. That was never a moral | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
dilemma that I faced. I don't think there was anything terribly | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
corrupting. The position at the Lib Dems were in 10 years ago is very | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
different from where we are today. You didn't have the same level of | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
pressure upon you. You were worried about The Independent and The | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
Guardian, and that was pretty much it. The New York Times is saying | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
that all of these MPs coming out of the woodwork, they are calling it | :07:27. | :07:36. | |
the British bring. -- British spring. William Hague | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
had a very good joke. He said, 1 million people are marching on our | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Palace, meaning Buckingham Palace, and we are completely relaxed! | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
This morning, a big event in the Commons Select Committee. Some of | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
the police officers involved in the original investigation into phone | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
hacking, which didn't seem to get that far, have been giving evidence | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
to this Home Affairs Select Committee. Not for the first time. | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
Chief among them, John Yates, the Assistant Commissioner of the | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
Metropolitan Police who has been criticised for deciding in 2009 not | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
to reopen an earlier inquiry into the whole scandal. Saying, in | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
effect, he thought it was job done. Clearly, that wasn't the case. He | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
was asked by the committee chairman this morning, who work -- who he | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
was apologising to today. I am regretting, I express regret, we | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
didn't do enough about dealing with those who are potentially affected. | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
I hold my hands up. I passionately believe I'm doing the right thing | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
around these matters. If I'm about to be wrong and have made an error, | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
I will hold my hands up. Please do not take that admission as in any | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
way accepting that I accept responsibility that News | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
International have not done, with regards to this case, from 2005, | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
2006, 2009, 2010, even up until yesterday. Please do not take that | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
as an admission that I am accepting responsibility for that. Why did | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
you not properly review the evidence that was sitting in bags | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
at Scotland Yard? Because there was nothing to indicate to me, in July | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
2009, out of the article that was written in The Guardian, that so | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
there was new material in there that would justify the investment | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
of resources, to go through all that material. Let me be clear, it | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
may have been placed in bin bags, as is the common parlance, but it | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
was in exhibit bags that was placed in bin bags. That material was gone | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
through by counsel in 2005 and 2006, it was reviewed by counsel in light | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
of the indictment they had framed. You know that when council is | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
focused on a particular indictment, they are going to be focused on | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
looking for evidence about that indictment. Your responsibility was | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
to look for matters outside of the individual indictment in that case. | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
You had thousands of pages of documents, why did you not look at | :10:07. | :10:15. | |
them? The case had been finished. Two people had gone to court and | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
had been sentenced. All the material... I appreciate the point | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
about relevance... Had been seen by the council and reviewed by the CPS. | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
I think it is accepted, I daren't say, that there was nothing in that | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
Guardian article that said, that is new, we don't know about it in the | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
police. We knew about that. That was Mr Yates giving evidence | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
this morning. I think he is still doing so. We are joined by our | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
political correspondent, Ross Hawkins. When I was watching, I had | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
never seen this before. A select committee of the House of Commons, | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
treating a senior police officer of their met with a mixture of | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
hostility and mockery. -- of the Met. Absolute derision, laughing at | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
him. He was reading through letters from use on the international | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
saying, they weren't telling me the truth. One of the MPs -- from News | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
International. One of the MPs said they -- would you expect MPs to | :11:21. | :11:31. | |
Four you and I know normally, in the select committee hearings, one | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
political side favours the witness more than the other side. They | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
differ in their approach. Right now, everyone on the committee seems | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
keen to give John Yates a bit of a kicking. A bit earlier, something | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
significant from Ian Blair, the commissioner when the first | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
investigation was carried out. He said, 2006, this was not regarded | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
as terribly significant at the time. He was warning about 50-50 | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
hindsight, everyone has got that now. But the mistakes of the past | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
are coming back to haunt the police, and the MPs want to make sure they | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
are seen at the forefront of dragging them up. Thank you. Giving | :12:07. | :12:17. | |
some flavour of what has been happening. We are joined by David | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
Ruffley, who was Shadow Minister for Police Reform when the Tories | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
were in opposition, and Peter Kirkham, who used to be a detective | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
chief inspector in the Metropolitan Police. David Ruffley, as you look | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
at what has just been happening, MPs in the Commons calling for Miss | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
Yeates to go, it is hard to conclude that his position is not | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
untenable -- calling for Mr Yates to go. I think it is untenable. I | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
don't think he is lying. He can't answer this question. That the | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
11,000 pages of documents referred to the details of Milly Dowler, | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
relatives of 7/7 and also the Soham murders. That was the information | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
in the bin bags when in 2009, he was asked, is there anything more | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
could we should be looked at -- looking at? For him not to know, or | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
not to have reliable lieutenants to go in and say, this is what we have | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
looked at, is beyond belief. He is not a liar, but he is not competent. | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
I think there is a wider issue. The London public and the British | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
public. They think, are the police on top of things? I think the | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
answer from today's evidence must be no. You have been backs of | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
evidence full of smoking guns, as it turns out, and you don't bother | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
looking at their -- you have been bags. They will look at to some | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
extent by the original investigation. John Yates was asked | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
to consider whether there was a new evidence which merited the official | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
-- initial investigation, which she had not been part of. He took the | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
view that it wasn't, there was nothing new. Effectively took it on | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
trust that they had done a competent job originally. He wasn't | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
asked to check whether they had done a competent job. He gave the | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
impression, and we as journalists were given the impression that | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
another voice had looked at the original inquiry and rolled it OK. | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
Now we are being told that is not what has happened. There is | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
learning in terms of the language that was used, and what it means | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
and people consider it to mean. are dealing with the police force, | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
elements you seem to be in the pay of News International -- elements | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
of whom seem to be. Elements of whom have an incredibly cosy | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
relationship with News International. Some of whom end up | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
working for News International. And you are telling us, we need to | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
learn about the use of language? I am saying on that point, what | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
John Yates was saying was misinterpreted because he was using | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
phrases that meant one thing. Nobody put us right. I am not sure | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
he recognised he was being misunderstood. In relation to the | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
whole thing, there are serious issues about the whole framework of | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
how the media and police work together. It is an inevitable | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
relationship that needs a clear ethical framework. A former | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
commander of operations at Scotland Yard said at the time Mr Gates was | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
dealing with a serious terror threat, he had his hands full -- Mr | :15:15. | :15:25. | |
:15:25. | :15:25. | ||
The police have never been it so well resourced. If he did not have | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
the resources, it was his duty to say, I do not have the resources | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
and to be clear what investigation he had done. All the stuff we heard | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
from Ian Blair about hindsight, this is not acceptable. It is | :15:42. | :15:50. | |
talking about words. There was a set of smoking guns in the Met it | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
and they signed up saying there is no more to investigate. John Yates | :15:54. | :16:02. | |
should have had a team tasked by him to give the right answer. His | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
position is not tenable but it also asks the questions about police | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
resources. I hear the nonsense, they had a 50% real-terms increase | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
in a decade. If he did not have enough officers he should have said | :16:16. | :16:26. | |
so. They have 70 on it now. Let me ask you this. It is part of my job | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
to mix with political leaders on the left and right and centre. I | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
have been doing that a lot in the past week. I have never known, | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
among senior politicians in this country, such hostility to the | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
police. Is the Met a where they have lost the confidence of the | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
political leaders of this country? I am sure they are, this is a | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
unique situation where the police have a relationship with the | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
organisation suspected. We have the issue of come up are their old | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
scores being settled? People deflecting attention from their | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
failings? Positions deflecting attention on to the police, and on | :17:10. | :17:20. | |
to the media. This wasn't considered a major issue. There is | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
a massive market in trade in personal data. In the Guardian | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
newspaper, Devon and Cornwall are invested in a major investigation | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
which came to court in 2005, and it was kicked out. Charles Kennedy. | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
You speak to politicians more than I do, do you agree there is almost | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
a complete collapse of trust in the competence and integrity of | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
elements of the police? That is a fair assessment. It is not the | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
usual suspects with a face like the anti- establishment view. Cabinet | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
ministers have expressed their concern. It is also a reflection of | :18:08. | :18:17. | |
this. Going back to the revelations of last week. MPs and, our role | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
should not be dismissed completely. It sometimes is, as being a | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
reflectors of our electorate. There are certain occasions when the | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
whole purpose of parliamentary democracy works and we are | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
lightning conductors. Every one of us the length and breadth of the | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
country when the revelations came out, a tidal wave of public anger | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
was communicated to us. You have seen that affected. We will have to | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
leave that here. I have a feeling we will be coming back to it. The | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
News of the World story is gripping us all at Westminster. But, unless | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
you're famous, or for some other reason you're in the public eye, | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
it's not going to affect your life very much. One thing that will, is | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
the sheer cost of gas and electricity. Today, the government | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
will be publishing proposals for reforming the electricity market. | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
It doesn't sound like a sexy subject. But the challenge is | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
enormous. They've got to find a way of generating enough power to keep | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
the lights on, cut carbon emissions, and keep energy bills down at the | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
same time. Energy Secretary Chris Huhne will unveil his electricity | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
market reforms in the Commons this afternoon. He is aiming to redraw | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
the energy market to ensure that we have the right investment so that | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
we can cut carbon, as well as guaranteeing the supply, and keep | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
the lights on. The numbers are staggering. Ofgem says �200 billion | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
may be required over the next 10-15 years for new power stations, and | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
to upgrade the grid. And the government is forecasting that | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
electricity consumption will double by 2050, as heating and road | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
transport switches to electricity to reduce CO2 emissions. And who is | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
going to pay for this massive change in the way we generate, | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
transmit and use electricity? Yes, we, the consumers. Ofgem has | :20:14. | :20:24. | |
Although Mr Huhne has promised that overall bills will be "down in the | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
long-run." With us now is David Porter, chief executive of the | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
Association of Electricity Providers, which speaks on behalf | :20:30. | :20:40. | |
of anyone and everyone who generates electricity. | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
Are we in this disaster when it comes to household bills because | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
the companies have been creaming off profit for such a long time and | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
not reinvesting? No, that is quite wrong, the companies are major | :20:54. | :21:01. | |
investors, they are among the UK's big investors. The problem we have | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
had recently is something different from the one that the White Paper | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
is seeking to redress. The recent problem has been to do with fuel | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
price rises. But, the white paper is about securing investments in at | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
low carbon electricity for the long term. But also it is acknowledged | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
there has not been the investment in the grid, there will be a | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
massive investment of �200 billion just to keep things going. Energy | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
generators are still making a windfall according to one report. | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
They carry on taking hefty windfall profits. There is some confusion | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
here. What we are talking about today is a bold move by the | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
government to create a framework in which the energy companies can | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
raise �200 billion of investment, mostly in power stations and partly | :22:02. | :22:09. | |
in the networks. That is designed to deliver low carbon electricity. | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
I understand that. But he acknowledged the assessment that in | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
every given that scenario it is going to hit the consumer hard? | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
think it is a fair bet that prices will rise. They have gone up | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
recently because of increases in Vauxhall fuel prices, coal and gas. | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
But, somehow, if we do make this �200 billion of investment, by the | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
way, the equivalent of building two Channel tunnel's a year for nine | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
years, if we do make it, the companies have to get a return. And | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
that eventually finds its way to customers and their bills. There | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
are those who said his White Paper is tinkering at the margins, there | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
needs to be a root and branch overhaul, to take the power away | :23:03. | :23:13. | |
:23:13. | :23:18. | ||
from the Big Six. "stitching up the market" says Tim Yeo. The White | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
Paper is designed to attract investment, it may well attract | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
investment from companies that are not in the industry at the moment. | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
That could be quite important. A good many of the major players in | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
our industry at the moment do not have particularly attractive | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
balance sheets. Thank you for coming in to talk to us. Wobbles in | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
the eurozone are now no great surprise to us. Ireland, Greece and | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
Portugal have needed and had bailouts. Recently, Italy has felt | :23:45. | :23:53. | |
the chill of a euro crisis building. So is this currency collapsing and, | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
if so, what do people like our guest Charles Kennedy, who called | :23:56. | :24:06. | |
:24:06. | :24:13. | ||
for us to be part if it, think now? There's Euro-scepticism. And then | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
there's scepticism of the euro. Indeed, some would say they told | :24:18. | :24:27. | |
you so, from the start. The script was written, not by the British | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
have necessarily, but by the Bundesbank, they said if you take | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
monetary policy and give it to a central bank, and had a one size | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
fits all policy, that interest rates around Europe would not fit | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
everyone all the time. The euro has always been a wholly political | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
project, designed to bind Germany into Europe. But no one has ever | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
really explained how they would overcome the fundamental economic | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
problem, have you can have one interest rate for different | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
economies, how you could have a currency without a government. The | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
fact there isn't a government has proved a fatal flaw. There is an | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
element of I told you so. Not so gleeful but in sorrow. Yet, | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
government in Britain, indeed leading members of rival parties in | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
Britain, sat alongside one another to show their commitment to making | :25:17. | :25:25. | |
it work. Were they naive? In every tide of human history, there is a | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
part of the time way you put hope first. Your potential | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
disappointment you put to one side. As pro-Europeans, we are not in | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
favour of rushing into the euro head first, we don't believe Europe | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
is perfect and we will want to see reform takes place. But, we do | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
believe that Britain can and must lead in Europe. Need reform in | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
Europe, lead on the euro's benefits for Britain. I think people felt we | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
were being isolated, this was a political view also. They felt we | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
should be the heart of Europe in order to influence things. There | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
was a thought the markets bought into this. People didn't realise | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
they had been speculating on the system apparently succeeding. The | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
same people are now speculating on it failing. Now, it's not the | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
discomfort over just Portugal, Ireland and Greece they're | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
speculating on. In recent days, Italy is also threatening the | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
euro's future. If you do not deal decisively with | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
the small southern countries which are in trouble, if you do not solve | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
the great problem, it will spread to Spain and Italy. And Italy | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
cannot be bailed out, it is too large. Over the next three years, | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
the eurozone will get smaller, the weaker countries will split away. | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
After that who knows what will happen. Uncertainly correction | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
Margaret uncertainty and doubt after all that hope. Charles | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
Kennedy, President of the European Movement. | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
Who said, the euro despite gloomy predictions has proved to be a | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
success? We cannot afford, Britain cannot afford to be isolated any | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
longer? That sounds like Kennedy prose? Someone called Charles | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
Kennedy. That must have been another Charles Kennedy. You played | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
a rather fair clip of me from all those years ago, you could have | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
been prejudicial. In that I was making the point, I was strongly | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
there and I remained strongly in favour of the euro. And Britain | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
joining? Not now, obviously. 2000 you said it was time. It is | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
not going to happen in this Parliament. In your lifetime? | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
really don't know. I hope it will. Because I have always taken the | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
view you cannot be blamed for economic realities, but the | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
political determination it should be to have Britain within the | :28:05. | :28:12. | |
single European currency if we are within the single trading area. | :28:12. | :28:20. | |
said at one time, one size does not fit all. Clearly. At the same time, | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
and it's interesting listening to what has been said at a continental | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
level, there has to be a political will to get this fixed. If not, the | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
economic implications for the UK are awful. We have run out of time | :28:35. | :28:42. | |
for this subject. What a shame. That's all for today. Thanks to our | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
guests, especially to Charles Kennedy. We'll be back at 11.30am | :28:45. | :28:47. |