19/10/2011 Daily Politics

Good morning. This is the Daily Politics.

There've been angry clashes at Dale Farm in Essex where dozens of riot

police have entered the camp to clear the illegal part of the

travellers' site. Two people were tasered this morning and one person,

so far, has been arrested. Officers were targeted with bricks and

rubble. We'll have the latest. Mervyn King warns time is running

out to solve the world economy. The governor of the Bank of England

says the recovery has gone off track and the consequences will

"inflict pain on everyone". Is our green and pleasant land

about to be ruined by the Government's proposed planning

legislation? Or is there a whiff of a U-turn on the horizon?

And talking of the countryside, as the EU prepares to reform the

Common Agricultural policy, we hear from one farmer who says it's a

lost opportunity. Yes all that and more, including

The next 90 minutes of TV bronze. We worry about the bureaucratic

proposals. And we worry about whether we are less competitive

rather than more competitive. All that and more, including Prime

Minister's Questions. Coming up in the next 90 minutes of TV bronze.

See how self-effacing we are! There is a terrible smell of blue in the

studio. Have you gone back to sniffing? No, I took my nail

varnish off before. And with us for the duration we have a match made

in heaven. Indeed the Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher of Westminster.

The Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, and the newly-promoted

Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umanna. The BBC pronunciation

department scores they first. Welcome to you both.

First this morning let's turn to events at Dale Farm in Essex, where

after a long, legal battle riot police and bailiffs moved in this

morning to evict travellers, many of whom have lived there for over a

decade. Our correspondent is there. What is the latest?

The police and the bailiffs are still trying to dismantle the main

gate of Dale Farm. The 40 ft barrier. They went into the site

from the other side, from the friends behind the back. They went

in pretty swiftly and used Taser gun as and rocks and other missiles

were thrown at the police. And they are trying to get the protesters

down of the scaffolding, so they can clear away the barricades at

the front and get the emergency vehicles in. They need to put out

at least one fire that is burning inside Dale Farm and begin the

process of clearing the site of those illegal homes. It looks as if

the resistance is coming from the protesters as much as the

travellers, is this going to be a long, drawn-out process? I think it

is, I think the council was initially planning for this to take

eight weeks, and that was a month ago. We have had all of the legal

challenges since then. Although the number of travellers inside Dale

Farm and supporters have dwindled, we think most of the children are

already out. Some of the caravans have left. The number of supporters,

there were about 100 a few weeks ago, now down to about a couple of

dozen. It is an easier operation than it might of been, and some are

offering various degrees of resistance. Others are resisting

more peacefully. This is going to be a drawn-out process, not just

securing the site, but beginning the removal of those homes. Thanks

very much for the update. Now, earlier I spoke to the local

MP for the area, John Barron. I began by asking him whether he had

any sympathy for the families who were being evicted. These are

families that have broken the law. We cannot have in this country, our

law for one group of people and a law for another group of people.

These traveller families have been offered alternative accommodation.

They have refused that because they deem it to be bricks and mortar.

There are other alternative authorised sites around the country,

but they said they do not want to travel. Also the council has an

obligation to look after the elderly, the young and the

vulnerable from the site. Those that are displaced from the site.

Doesn't the council take some responsibility for having taken so

long to sort this out. After 10 years surely they have earned some

right to stay? The previous Government stock the council from

taking some action. But there were periods in the past, for up to two

years, the Labour Government stock Basildon council from taking action.

In that period, the site quadrupled in size. It is not local residents

fault and that they have been landed in this situation. Now we

have had to go through the courts, which has taken time. What impact

has that had on the wider constituency? What the law abiding

majority want and local people want is the law enforced equitably.

Otherwise it is the law-abiding society being prejudiced against.

What message would it send out to everybody else? Everybody would say,

if they can do it, why can't we get away with it and we would have

chaos. Caroline Spelman, has this been a sensible use of money? �22

million so far. You could have given them all a house? You cannot

have one law for the travelling community and a law for the settled

community. Everybody knows, you cannot just occupy a piece of green

belt land, green meadow, and rip off the turf and build what you

want. You have to have planning for mission. You let plenty of tents in

Westminster Square. If I put a tent in Hyde Park you would arrest me?

That is a separate issues. It is the same point? No, we need more

authorised sites for the travelling community. We provide more? Yes,

the new Government said we would provide an incentive to local

authorities that provide authorised sites for travellers. They would

have greater powers to enforce the law than on unauthorised sites.

Basildon has done its bit. But some of the surrounding councils don't

have provision for travellers. It is important that we provide for

both the travelling community, but make sure the law is upheld for

both the settled and the travelling community. They have been there for

10 years, where do they go now? they want to settle in Basildon,

like you or I want to settle in Basildon. If we were homeless

tomorrow we become a priority on the house and Liszt in Basildon.

That is if they want to settle her. A lot of these are fixed structures.

If that is what they want to do, prioritising the elderly, the

children and families. If you want to settle in a local authority area

and you are without a roof, you are homeless, you become a priority on

that housing list. Isn't that right, they have put a permanent

structures which means they are not travel as any more. Why should they

be able to do what the rest of us cannot do? We cannot just go up and

put houses up where we feel like it? It is important the law is a

poll but I wonder if there is a better way for the law to be upheld.

I don't know the answer. I have a site opposite might constituency.

These pictures are unprecedented. People having Taser gun as used on

them, and after this situation has been dealt with, Basildon council

will carry out an inquiry to see if they handled it correctly and

whether it could have been handled better. It sounds like you would

like your policy to be different than the Government's, but you

haven't got one? I am just being honest. There is no point in me

expressing huge outrage for the sake of doing so. Most people

watching this will look at that and think it is not every day you see

something like that happening. has taken 10 years? As I understand

it, they actually own the site but they're not allowed to build on it.

Part of it, they have legitimate planning. It is the part they

don't? Absolutely. One can either criticise a particular situation

and seek to learn from it, and I think that is what needs to happen.

Actually, the problem does go back a long way to a change in the Lord

John Prescott made. One of the difficulties is, councils have

spent taxpayers' money trying to tackle illegal or unauthorised

encampments. When we formed the Government we made a conscious

decision to change the law, to make sure we are able to answer this

question about how do you make sure there is an enforcement of the law

that you can make it work. But, there is plenty of provision for

those who want to travel. I think the package the Government has come

up with is the right one. We shall see how events develop today and

tomorrow as well. Now, listen carefully because this

is complicated but yesterday the Backbench Business Committee voted

to hold a debate on holding a vote to have a referendum on Britain's

membership of the European Union. We reported it on the programme

yesterday. Now many backbench Conservatives - and we know what a

lot of them think of the EU - may not be over the moon to hear that

David Cameron will order his MPs to vote against holding a referendum.

The Conservative MP, David Nuttall, who is expected to propose the

motion, next week is on College Green. How many Conservative MPs do

you expect to join you in this? Already we know from the order

paper that there are dozens and dozens of Conservative MPs who have

signed this motion. The total number of names on here, we have

had double more added this morning and we are up to 16 games to back

his emotions. Across all parties! As a Conservative MPs, did you say

60 MPs across all parties? Yes, across all parties. The vast

majority are Conservatives. There are some Labour members who had

signed. What about the Liberal Democrats? Would you be expecting

many more of those MPs to sign because it was in their manifesto?

Up to now, no Liberal Democrats have signed, but I would expect

them to sign it because after all it was in their manifesto. Lots of

voters who voted for them will want to see this motion passed next week

and they can have a say on this vital issue. I suppose one might

ask you did not stand on a platform and the Conservatives did not stand

on a platform for an in and out referendum. Do you have a mandate

for this? It is 36 years since we had a referendum on this issue. The

Conservatives at the last election stood on a platform at wanting to

renegotiate powers. This is provided for in the referendum I am

proposing. It is in line with what we stood on. I believe if this

legislation was passed, it would strengthen the hand of the

Government in any negotiations with the rest of the European nations.

It won't be binding will it, it will be indicative? I believe if

the House of Commons passes this motion, any Government would be

hard-pressed to ignore the Democratic will of the British

people as expressed through their democratically elected Members of

Parliament. You cannot be surprised David Parliament is going to try

and obviously get MPs not to support it? What matters is what is

good for the country and British businesses who are Bob down by red

tape from Brussels. They have to compete on the world stage and it

is about British jobs and securing a flourishing future of the three

enterprise in this country. That's what is behind this. Imagine if

there was the vote and Britain did leave the EU, what would happen in

terms of trade? We are long way from that. You are asking people to

vote, so what would happen? believe that as a trading nation,

most of our trade is with the rest of the world, some of it goes to

Europe. When somebody go shopping, do they really look were an item

was produced? No, they buy it because it is good quality and at

the right price. That is matters when you try to sell abroad. No

British housewife looks and says, I am not buying this because it

wasn't produced in the European Union.

I am going to dispute that, I do look at the like -- label. If

people want to buy British, you can look at a food label and with

I don't think this is a nightmare. The most important thing is what is

in the interest for the country right now. With the crisis in the

eurozone, from which we are not immune, it is clear having a

referendum about the membership of the European Union is not what is

needed now. He has said they would like to have one of the votes on a

renegotiating powers which was a promise by the Conservatives. Are

you going to keep that promise? will have a referendum, if there

was a treaty change which would see more power to Brussels, and that is

a commitment to stand by completely. The manifesto promise to

renegotiate and repatriate power. Yes, and if you look at their his

policies, this important negotiations right now about how to

conserve fish stocks, and that could be done with a much better

localised approach to make sure that the fishing industry closest

to the coastal waters that... You're not repatriating fishing

powers and that will you promise to do. It's designed to make sure we

have sustainable fish stocks for the future, and we have support

amongst other countries. Are there any others? If you take the reform

of the Common Agricultural Policy, which is coming up right now, as

part of a negotiation, we are do in conjunction with other member

states, the detailed implementation of that should be decided in the

context of the member states, because farming in Cyprus and the

UK are very different to. Why don't you let them have their vote? Why

don't the MPs have their boat and see what they say on the issue you

stood for at the election? Up at the election we said we would have

a referendum... Why won't you let them? I don't think it will help

the situation. People are worried about paying their mortgages, and

want the economic turmoil on the world stage and within Europe, just

be sorted out. No one is saying you should have a referendum now that

have it next year. Had it with the independent Scottish referendum.

The important point played in that interview, City have a good part of

our trade is in a Europe. It would be... Hold on a minute. 93% of our

trade would not be affected being inside or outside. It was

negotiated by GAT, so they couldn't put tariffs against us. What is

your answer to that? 40% of our trade is with other European

countries. Which would not be affected. Yes, it would.

wouldn't, because of they can't put tariffs against the rules. Not Just

parrots, but you seek to ensure a level playing field in a single

market. It's an advantage of the countries that operating on a

single playing field for the WTO rules cover both barriers. Andrew,

and talks have broken down. There is no agreement on trade

liberalisation. Yes, there is also its to bring in emerging markets

balls-up where is this huge demand for the referendum? I haven't had

one business meeting, another new been a couple of days now, and I'd

been in the team for many months now, and I haven't had one Business

asking me for a referendum on Europe. Right, Now it appears that

not a day goes by without more bad news on the economy. Last night the

governor of the Bank of England, some might mistake him for the

harbinger of doom these days, gave us a sober assessment of the

economic situation. Mervyn King said Britain must use the gravity

of the global crisis to provoke a bold response. Jo bring us up to

speed. Each day there is news of fresh economic woes both at home

and abroad. Let's just take a quick snapshot of what we have learnt in

the last 24 hours. Yesterday morning, the latest inflation

figures were published with the consumer price index hitting 5.2%,

and the retail price index a massive 5.6% The figures published

yesterday showed that gas prices have gone up by 13% since August.

And electricity has gone up by 7.5%. Then last night the Governor of the

Bank of England Mervyn King warned that the time is running out to

solve the world economic crisis and that the consequences threatened to

inflict pain on everyone. Over in Greece, a 48 hour general strike

has begun as parliament prepares to vote on the latest round of

spending cuts and tax increases. And ahead of the EU Summit this

weekend, President Sarkozy said of the crisis facing the single

currency that allowing the destruction of the euro is to risk

of the destruction of Europe. British people are now going

through the severest squeeze on their living standards since the

1920s. What are you doing about it? We need to be clear what the

Government can and can't do. There are two things which are beyond our

control completely. The rising commodity prices for food because

of increasing population and rising energy prices. They haven't risen

since 2008. Not on energy prices. They are way off the peak. Allow

fuel bills are still rising. Energy prices rose in at 2008, the retail

price rose as well. They have fallen since. Our retail prices are

still rising. So what will you do? There are things you can and can't

do. Particularly on energy prices helping people paying their bills

despite the scaremongering. We have kept the winter fuel allowance for

pensioners at �200. After that two severe winters we have had and

possibly another one to come, it's important to help the vulnerable

families because it's important for people to stay warm. It doesn't do

anything for the squeeze the middle. The most important thing we can do

is help people to reduce their energy consumption. The green deal

is designed to help everyone. It makes a difference. If you fit

homes would double glazing you can halve your energy bill. Your

response to the severest squeeze on living standards since 1925 is

double glazing? I'm telling you what we can do. What is basically

nothing. We need to produce more food because it's in short supply,

so the number one priority is to produce more food and to produce it

at less cost. That's not going to happen overnight for the are you

going to pay for my double glazing? You can draw down �6,000 of capital

to suit your property. I'm supposed to do this at a time when average

pay is rising by less than 2%, and prices are rising by 6%? It doesn't

come out of your pay packet but drawn down over your utility bills

over a number of time, because people don't have the capital right

now to I play on energy conservation. Basically, other than

things on the margin, there is very little the Government can do to

ameliorate this terrible squeeze on living standards? We can't change

the trajectory of world prices but we can do things to help are

vulnerable families. Overall, with food, we need to produce more food

because of supply and demand. have said all that. The Governor

said last night the root cause of the debt crisis was unsustainably

high levels of consumption by governments, companies, and

individuals. Who presided over that? I'm not sure. Your hinting at

certain conclusions there. I'm not sure we have the financial problems

we have now because we spent historically too much on schools,

hospitals he's just saying governments, companies and

individuals all borrowed too much. And it was unsustainable and the

party would have to end. Who presided over this unsustainable

borrowing in all three sectors? were in power for 13 years, that's

a fact. In relation to private consumption, and spending and its

place in our overall GDP, we need to rebalance the economy so we are

not reliant so much on consumption, which makes up two-thirds of GDP.

We need to build and Grover's other sectors, like manufacturing. --

grow those other sectors. In so far as the public sector debt is

concerned, clearly, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now were it

not for the financial crisis which found itself in the banking sector.

Things would be very difficult and different now had not been for that.

The key way to resolve these things is to get growth and jobs back and

the economy because we had 2.5 7 million unemployed people at the

moment and we have to pay them benefits, and they don't pay income

tax so, ultimately, it costs us about half a billion pounds, for

the more people we get back into work, the quicker we will be able

to resolve the issues of the public sector debt. How do you do that but

we will come back to that of. We will have the Guess The Year

competition and then PM queues for the -- pm at questions. A new

presenter has seen the ratings plummet, there have been newspaper

reports of feuding talent and the critics are beginning to wonder if

the show is past its best. No, we haven't lost our X Factor. How

could we? But you've got to feel sorry for poor old Simon Cowell,

whose show has it appears. Luckily, me and my Sinitta have got some

advice. Simon, don't worry about the songs or the stylists. You can

have mine. Forget winning the �27,000 mini. If you want to keep

your audience, it's all about having this very special prize.

get better every week. Doesn't it? We'll remind you how to enter in a

minute, but let's see if you can At least 18 people have died and

thousands more injured in these spontaneous riots which the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 53 seconds

Governor of California has termed a Nostalgia rules. To be in with a

chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our

special quiz email address. That's [email protected]. And you can see

the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

That's bbc.co.uk / dailypolitics. It's coming up to midday here. Just

take a look at Big Ben. There it is framed in a beautiful blue sky.

It's Wednesday. And that can mean only one thing. Yes, Prime

Minister's Questions is on its way. Before we head over to the Commons

we've been joined by Matthew Parris of the Times. Welcome back. Good to

see you. What should Mr Miliband go on today? In a cornucopia of

choice? There will be up to be something about Liam Fox, but my

guess is that he will hit the economy had a, and the inflation

figures. -- harder. I would have thought he doesn't want to appear

to political but would want to appear on the side of ordinary

people, or not thinking a lot about Dr Fox, and nothing about the way

the Government benefits, pensions, would actually be going up as much

as inflation and inflation is going up faster than people thought.

would you advise him to go on? There is a cornucopia of issues.

What would I go on? Liam Fox is the issue of the moment. For ordinary

people? His life work is undone. He's lost his job. Maybe the issue

of the moment is not the issue brought up with me on the doorstep.

We have not mentioned at this morning for the only you. Didn't

you? Matthew just mentioned it. is the bubble personified. So I

think it will be the big issue for people at the moment, the economy.

But we will wait and see. Mr Miller and, despite -- Ed Miliband never

sounds totally in command when it comes to the economy. It's

difficult to sound in command when it you are a new Leader of the

Opposition. Margaret Thatcher shadow the Chancellor before she

became leader of the Conservative Party and she never sounded much in

command, either. It comes with experience, and he's got plenty of

time. One of the things which strikes me about the political

elite on the left and right at the moment is a total absence of

credible policy. Alternatives to what's happening at the moment.

which makes politics quite interesting in one sense but in the

other sense, quite a doll. We are being forced down the same channel.

-- quite dull. Caroline would disagree with me on this. There has

been, since the crash in at 2008, two quite distinct positions. In

some senses, grounded in the party attitudes towards the state and how

much it should intervene. I think there are real differences in

approach. What is the major difference? Our five-point plan for

growth shows the Government doing things for demand and we don't

think the state is the answer to everything but I suppose we take a

more benign view than ideological, the Conservatives would do. We will

come back to that. Let's go to the I am sure the whole House will wish

to join me in remembering rifleman DJ ride from the Gurkha Rifles. He

was a talented soldier. He was proud to be a Gurkha and it is at

times like these we remembered the deep debt of gratitude we owe those

brave soldiers. I had meetings this morning with ministerial colleagues

and others and I will have such further meetings later.

Can I commend and share the views of the Prime Minister concerning

our brave military personnel. Is the Prime Minister a word that this

year we are commemorating the 75th anniversary of the Jarrow march?

Isn't it wrong that even today, people in this country living fear

of the door and unemployment? The Government have been in a year and

already we are back to the 1980s. Can I ask the Prime Minister

question? Will he be supporting workers or will he be sacrificing

them? I believe we need to be supporting people and helping them

back into work. We should commemorate the Jarrow march, and I

noticed it has been commemorated this year. We have a challenge

across the country as we see numbers employed in the public

sector inevitably go down. And that would be happening whoever was

standing here. We have to make sure there are more jobs in the private

sector. In the north-east, we seem Nissan is creating 200 jobs,

Hitachi have to 500 jobs, the Lear Corporation up to 300 jobs and BT

are creating an extra two wounded 80 jobs in South seals. There are

half a million more private sector jobs compared at the time of the

election. I agree we need to do more.

Can I congratulate the Prime Minister... Are on his joint

declaration with Canadian Prime Minister on Ocean renewable

energies. Obviously we need to make sure we have growth in our economy.

May I ask as to what he thinks universities such as Plymouth, who

have a very good reputation for marine research, can do to try and

help? I commend him for his question, because there are a

number of universities across the country, and including Edinburgh,

which I visited. They are leaders in marine renewable energy and

yesterday the climate change Secretary announced we will be

going ahead with the renewable obligations certificates, making

sure we Bruce this industry and attract jobs to this country for

offshore wind and other renewable technologies. -- boost.

Can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the riflemen from

2nd Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles in joining the army was

following a proud family tradition. He showed the utmost courage and

bravery and our condolences are with his family and friends. The

revelations over the last week about what has been going on in the

most sensitive department at the heart of the governments are

worrying. The former Defence Secretary had an unofficial adviser

with access to top officials in the military and foreign governments,

funded by undeclared, private donations solicited by him. Yet the

Prime Minister says he and Number Ten knew nothing about these goings

on for 18 months. How did he allow this to happen?

I agree with him, this is an important and serious issue and

that is why I set up a proper inquiry, by the Cabinet Secretary.

He has produced that report and the report has been published. I do

think it is worth, Mr Speaker, recognising in this case, the

Secretary of State for Defence recognised he made a mistake,

acknowledged team broke the ministerial code and resigned. That

is not something that always happened in the last 13 years!

Miliband. Mr Speaker, a piece of advice to the Prime Minister, this

week of all weeks, show a bit of humility! And the truth is, we

still don't know the full facts about his case. About the money

trail, about to be in the Government Messer Adam Werritty. It

is becoming clear there were a network of individuals who funded

Mr Werritty, some with close links to the Conservative Party and

others close links to the Cabinet. Giving he says he knew nothing

about the arrangements of the former Defence Secretary, can he

get this house a categorical guarantee that over the last 18

months, no other Government minister has been engaging in

similar activities? I think we should have a little bit of

humility from the people who gave us cabs for hire, passports of

favours, mortgages for maids! Dodgy de Souza. -- dodgy dossier. These

are the questions he was meant to ask last week. Perhaps I have some

advice for him - if you jump on a bandwagon, make sure it is still

moving! Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, no answers to the questions people

want answers. This is a Prime Minister and we see a pattern of

activity. He does not ask the tough questions of those around him and

when anything goes wrong, it is nothing to do with him. What did he

say in the ministerial code? He said, it is not enough simply to

make a difference, we must be different. And in the last three

months we have seen his Defence Secretary resign in disgrace and

his spin doctor arrested. Is that what he meant about being

different? He seems to have failed to notice the minister in question

has resigned. You're just a bit late!

Would my Right Honourable Friend agree that at a time when... Order.

Would my Right Honourable friend agreed that at a time when the

Governor of the Bank of England has said we are facing possibly an

unprecedented economic crisis, it is a good thing this country is

still committed to getting debt under control, and to retaining

credibility in the financial He makes an important point. People

should listen to the Governor of the Bank of England when he served

with a lower level of sterling we were on track. But the problems in

the Euro area and a marked slowing of the economy have length and the

big period that their returns to normality is likely. We should

stick to the plan of dealing with debts and deficits. If we listen to

the party opposite and added �23 billion to the deficit this year,

it wouldn't be Greek economics, it would be freed Economics.

Mr Speaker, the Speaker has acknowledged there was collusion in

the murder of Pat Finucane. Does he accept in order to get to the

bottom of that, we have to get to the top of that? Does he recognise

many of us lack confidence that a review by even an eminent lawyer is

going to be able to do that, and will he reflect further on the

grave misgivings reflected by the family and the Irish Government?

course I accept the scepticism. But there was scepticism at the time of

the inquiry as to whether that would get to the truth. What

matters is the intent of the British Government in uncovering

what happened, being frank about it, acknowledging it and apologising

for it. You don't need an open- ended inquiry to achieve that. To

those who are sceptical, I know they will go on being sceptical,

just have an open mind and I believe we can deal with this issue

properly. Will a prime Minister join me in congratulating my

Gorrell council -- Borough Council in building the first council

housing in many years. But also recognise their anxiety the first

draft of the new national planning policy framework could render them

powerless to defend treasured and green spaces on the urban fringe

which are being deliberately targeted by developers? Let me

reassure him on the planning policy. We are not making changes to green

belt and other protections. He can discuss that with the planning

minister. I congratulate all local councils to build the badly-needed

houses we need and deal with overcrowding. I am sure he will

welcome the announcement that have been made and the Deputy Prime

Minister and I have been working closely on this, to make sure use

money from the right to buy to build more social housing so we end

the scandal of overcrowded housing. Can I thank you and your staff and

put on record my gratitude to the Home Secretary and all sides of the

House for their support for their Hillsborough families during the

debate on Monday. Will the Prime Minister acknowledged governments

have made mistakes, that 22 years is 22 years to too long to fight

for the truth. If it is proven there was an orchestrated cover-up,

justice should still prevail? And those really responsible for the

Hillsborough disaster should be brought to book? First of all, let

me say to him, last week I promised him the time for his debate would

be properly protected and the house would have a proper time to debate

it, which it did. Yes we are going to open up those papers and publish

the papers as promised, so people can see what was happening. I would

say it is important to remember, the Taylor inquiry was a proper

investigation, it led to huge changes in the way we manage and

arrange football in this country. Hillsborough was a national tragedy,

I am sympathetic to the families of the victims and I'm sure there are

regrets from all the institutions involved at the time, including the

Government. The Prime Minister has giving his backing to national

heroes Day this Friday, 21st October. Will he commend hundreds

of schools taking part celebrating inspirational role models and

raising money for help for heroes? I am very pleased to do that, I am

a huge fan. It has been a remarkable story how that charity

has grown. I have seen for myself the extraordinary efforts they have

made at Headley Court, where they have built this swimming-pool which

is used by so many people recovering from their injuries in

Afghanistan and elsewhere. I am pleased to support what he says.

Miliband. Last week we heard unemployment was

at its highest level since the last Conservative Government. This week

we heard retail price inflation was at its highest level since the last

Conservative Government. Does the Prime Minister still think his plan

is working? CPI, the measure of inflation we all now recognise, the

last time CPI was as high as this was in 2080 when he was in

Government. -- 2008. Inflation is too high, the principal reasons for

inflation being high of world food prices, fuel prices, the

depreciation of sterling and yes, there was an effect on the increase

in VAT, just as there was an effect when he increased VAT at the

beginning of 2010. But the reason for increasing VAT is to get on top

of the record at this at the last Government left.

As always the Prime Minister says it is just like that in the rest of

the world. We have the highest inflation than any other EU country

apart from Estonia. It is decisions he made, including VAT. The

evidence mounts his plan is not working and he just refuses to

change course. Lastly, we heard his flagship National Insurance scheme

had not worked. Now let me ask him about his flagship regional growth

fund which he launched 16 months ago. Can he tell us how many

businesses have had cash paid out One of the reasons why Britain has

such a difficult situation with inflation is we would be country

with the biggest boom and bust of any European country. He cannot

hide from that. The regional growth fund will distribute billions of

pounds it right across the country and it's a thoroughly worthwhile

scheme he should be supporting. don't think he knows the answer, Mr

Speaker. Mr Speaker, they have certainly issued lots of press

releases about the regional growth fund. 22, but how many businesses

have been helped in the last 16 months? Two. Two businesses in the

16 months. And how many have gone bankrupt in that time? 16,000. What

greater example can there be on the way this Government's plan is not

working. We've had 18 months of his economic experiment and what have

you got to show for it? More and more people losing jobs, businesses

going bust and inflation through the roof, and all we have is a

prime minister who is hopelessly out of touch. Because all he wants

to do is talk down the economy. He won't mention the fact that there

are 300,000 new businesses started. There are 500,000 people who got

jobs who didn't have them at the time of the election, but the big

question is, if he doesn't like our plan, where is his plan? We now

know his plan to deal with our debts is to... Order. Organised

barracking is not acceptable for the Prime Minister must be heard.

His plan is to add �23 billion to Britain's deficit this year and

almost �100 billion up by the end of the parliament, but there is not

one single country in Europe that Order! We are grateful to the

shadow chancellor followed advice but I would like him up to applied

to the House as a whole. The House must come down up. The Prime

Minister. The problem is, it was his advice which got us into this

mess in the first place. When is he going to learn there is not a

single country in a Europe that things you deal with your debts by

adding to your debts? That's why nobody listens to him here or in

Europe. Yesterday, a report was published in to the serious

failings by Nottinghamshire police to protect a young woman who went

on to be murdered by her violent partner. Would the Prime Minister

agree with me, it is imperative all police forces have the practices,

policies and the training to protect women from violent men?

absolutely agree. The point she makes is important because some

police forces have made huge steps forwards in domestic violence but

not all have, and we need to spread that best practice and recognise it

across the country. The Association of college principals has just

announced the largest fall in college enrolments since 1999 and

cite the abolition of EMA as a factor. It's a tragedy of the

Government's own making and lies directly at the door of the

Secretary of State for Education. What does the Prime Minister going

to do to put this right? figures actually show that some end

Romans had gone up and if you look at our replacement for EMA, it's a

well funded scheme which would be much better targeted on those

people in need of. People will get more under EMA. The families in the

country are facing very high fuel bills and there's a vested interest

by the Big Six feel companies not to allow competition into the

market. What of the primer so doing to bring more competition to get

prices down? One thing we are doing is insisting the Big Six up to make

more of their energy available into a pooling arrangement so new

businesses can come into this industry. The last government

abolished the pooling arrangements and created a situation with the

Big Six, and we don't have to ask who the energy secretary was in

that government. We are looking at him. Given the importance of carbon

capture and storage, as a way of helping reduce our carbon emissions

and also as an exporter will technology to rebalance the economy,

will the Prime Minister put his words into action and in short the

organic demonstration project goes ahead? What I can say is the

funding we set aside for carbon capture and storage is still there.

It will be made available. The scheme has not working in the way

they intended but the money from the Government, the support, is

there. Given the huge savings the nation made by the Cabinet Office

is across government without legislation, and a huge financial

risks provoked by constant structure reorganisation of the NHS,

wouldn't it be better at politicians learn to manage more

and medal less, even if the governments find the latter more

interesting? He makes an important point. Let me pay tribute to a

member for Horsham who does this very patient work at the heart of

government and doesn't always get recognised for it but we have

reduced management consultants by 70%, saving �870 million. We have

spent less on lay bat, temporary labour, spent less on marketing and

advertising. These are serious changes to cost things and provide

good value for money. None of these things were done under the last

government to put up the Prime Minister claimed before the

election anyone carrying a knife should go to prison. Has he read a

Brooke Kinsella's article in today's Sun newspaper revealing 40%

of knife crime is carried out by under 18? Why won't he put them in

jail? A we are doing something the last government failed to do,

create a mandatory sentence for adults caught with knives to make

sure that happens. The British people are simply crying out for a

referendum on the future of the Europe. Will he please make history

and follow the example of great prime ministers like Winston

Churchill and Margaret Thatcher and given the British people a chance

to vote on our future with the EU? I completely understand and share

the frustration that many have about the way the European Union

goes about its business, the bureaucracy, but I have to say, the

key focus here is to get on top of the EU budget, keeping Britain out

of the bail-out scheme, and make sure the single market is working.

Of course, we are committed to the return of powers from Brussels to

Westminster. We are committed as a government that if power passes

from Brussels there would have to be a referendum. That promise is

good for this Parliament and beyond but I don't support holding a

referendum come what may. I will not be supporting a motion. We are

aware of the courage of our armed forces as they serve and

Afghanistan. Last November, Major Ian McCormick from Coleraine in my

constituency, died in Helmand province, one of many but he paid

the highest price to defend freedom. His commanding officer said today

there is a gap in their ranks which no ordinary man can fill. He was

the best of his country and we mourn his loss. What the Prime

Minister ensure he will review the way the Ministry of Defence

prepares its honours list so families will see the entire nation

recognises the sacrifice and selflessness of these brave men and

women? I will certainly look very carefully at what he says and

perhaps arrange a meeting with him and the Minister for other veterans

and the honourable member for Blaby. I think it would be a good thing to

do. I had the highest possible regard for the professionalism,

courage, dedication of our forces are also we paid a high price in

Afghanistan and Iraq for all we had to do there, and the whole country,

actually, recognises that and feels that very strongly and are looking

for new ways to recognise what the armed forces do. That's why there's

such strong support for help for heroes and homecoming parades for

honours lists, the military government and those sorts of

things. I think we should recognise this service and sacrifice.

Inaccurate reporting and statements about a European director of that

applies to insulin-dependent diabetics seize up to one million

such people fearing for their driving licence, but is it not the

case, it's for the Department of Transport and how it interprets

this directives which will determine whether or not some body

loses their licence? When the Prime Minister make the position clear?

will try to do that. I understand his concern and it is shared by

many insulintreated diabetics across the country who want to go

on driving. I can reassure him that, relatively few people will lose

their licence as a result of this director's. The DVLA is going back

to the European Commission to check its understanding of the

interpretation of the minimum standards of this director's. On

too many occasion, gold-plated directives should be stopped it.

The British airports Authority's is selling Edinburgh Airport. Does he

agree it's important others many international routes and services

as possible. Why does the honours and the views of the four major

transport in Scotland who wish to see the devolution of air passenger

duty? We will listen carefully to these arguments balls-up Investment

should go and the infrastructure of airports. I know Edinburgh airport

has a superb facilities and they are being improved. We will go on

listening to those arguments are. Does he agree, private schools a

lot well before then she not only support underperforming schools but

also encourage them to federate? This should be cross-party

initiative and I pay tribute to Lord Adonis who live think is made

some extremely important speeches on this issue. There's an

opportunity for independent school to sponsor academies in the state

sector. I think we can to the breaking down of the barriers

between independent and state education. I hope this will have

all-party support. A change in the national targets regime have led to

the murders his services in Greater Manchester being in the disarray. -

- emergency services. The response time of the fire service has

doubled in parts of Greater Manchester and the police

switchboard is in meltdown. What reassurances can the Prime Minister

give to the House they won't be a tragic death because of this

failure in the service? I will look carefully at what the honourable

gentleman says balls of we are carrying out the �20 billion of

savings carried out by the Health Secretary but the depth of between

our policies, we are putting those savings back into the NHS whereas

the official Labour position is increasing spending in real terms

on the NHS is irresponsible balls- up we think it's irresponsible not

to do that. David Brown's spending in my constituency, being in

receipt of a regional growth and investment, that will help to

create 80 new jobs, does the Prime Minister agree with me that despite

the my brain and doom-mongering opposite, there are success stories

out there, and will he opened the new innovation and enterprise

centre at Huddersfield University in the spring? What a delightful

invitation. Can I thank the honourable gentleman. Or does. --

order. What he has managed to show his the first lot of questions were

irrelevant and the second set of questions were wrong. Mr Speaker,

the answer the prime minister just gave just isn't good enough. The

fact is, despite all his promises, but fewer people carrying knives

are going to prison so will we apologise to broken seller and

other bereaved families back Brooke Kinsella, for breaking the promises

he made that he would take a tougher approach. It's a brave

thing, her campaign, when you have lost a campaign in your own family

to campaign for change in the law and also the way the police behave,

young people behave. I think she is a thoroughly good individual with a

very great campaigner. What we are doing under this government is have

a mandatory sentence for knife crime and that will be introduced

in the forthcoming Bill. My Right Honourable friend, will hear

support the Royal College of speech therapist giving voice campaign

which is emphasising the central importance of speech, language and

communication in tackling a wide range of social issues. I will

certainly join my honourable friend doing that. This is an issue way

take a close personal interest as well. For anyone who has brought up

disabled children, they know the importance of speech therapists and

know this not another bum to provide a help and services we need

and no getting their services can be extremely tough, so I certainly

agree with what he says. The Prime Minister, Leno at officials from

other governments were given the impression that the former Defence

Secretary's an official adviser represented at the UK government --

an official. How many people were misled and rarely provide a list?

He should read the report by the Cabinet Secretary and he will find

in there all the details the needs about what's Adam Werritty was

doing. It comes El from a party to Even the former leader, in the last

two months, has got �120,000 for speeches to Credit Suisse, Visa and

he told us he was going to put money into the banks. We did not

know he was going to get it out so Does the Prime Minister accept that

moves towards will undermine the He makes an extremely important

point, which while we believe the logic of a single currency drives

fiscal integration, it poses particular threats and risks to

those of us who want the single market to work properly. It is

important to argue for safeguards, to make sure the single market

remains properly protected. Of course, in the longer term it maybe

there will be further moves towards further treaties and the rest of it.

They may be opportunities to bring further powers back to Britain and

then maybe powers Best opportunities for a recommend --

referendum. We have so much to do to get Europe to sort its problems

out. Michael Meacher. The statutory register of lobbyists, will the

Prime Minister also ensure so- called think-tanks, whose

propaganda is clearly aimed to manipulate both ministers and the

public for their own ends, should be required to reveal who

ultimately funds them, so we all know whose interests they really

represent? We are committed to having a statutory register and it

does need to be put in place. In needs to include think tanks and

other organisations. It also needs to include the lobby that owns the

party opposite, lock, stock and trade-union barrel - the trade

There was a switch to the economy, and a lot of argy-bargy. Whether

there was any wisdom, is a matter for you to judge.

It is split into two on Liam Fox and the economies.

Lorna Taylor says! David Cameron is a disgrace, he did not answer the

questions, I am so angry". From Phillip Taylor in Cheshire"

very angry, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

John says people are concerned about Liam Fox more than the

economy and unemployment. David Holmes in Newcastle" I am

impressed by David Miliband for the first time ever, had David Cameron

on the back foot on the economy". This from Simon Green in

Southampton"somebody shut Ed Miliband up, his party was in power

for 13 years and their policies have put this company on its knees".

This one from someone in author, David Cameron is in Government and

not in opposition. The Prime Minister accuses the

opposition of talking down the economy, has he forgotten all he

has done for the last six years is precisely that.

I am glad John from Edinburgh is watching, because it means Scotland

is watching. He could be watching for London

feed of the Sky television system. Is there any mileage, Matthew

Parris in Liam Fox? I wouldn't have thought so from the party political

point of view. Everybody knows Mr Murphy was rather slow in getting

on to that particular bandwagon. I think the Prime Minister's joke

that it was too late to join the bus because it had stopped had hit

home. I think the story remains interesting, and the question Ed

Miliband asked, why didn't the Prime Minister know about this, it

is an important question but it is not important for the party-

political dogfight. So no party political advantage? He don't only

as questions for party political advantage, believe it or not!

Prime Minister's Questions, you do. You don't only, you keep butting

into me today Andrews. You also have a function to scrutinise what

Government is doing. Ed Miliband asked, what guarantees can the

Prime Minister give, the kind of practices that shadow advisory

operation that Liam Fox had in place, what guarantees can he give

no other minister has that kind of operation in place and what is he

doing to provide the public with confidence. What the public don't

like in my view and that is what is reflected in commence in my

constituency, they don't like power and influence they cannot see.

Transparency is key. Questions are remaining un answered. I am sorry

to interrupt you again, but do you have your phone on? Do you have a

phone on you? Is it on? I don't think so. It is interfering with

sound. I had to interrupt you there. If you have it on, can you switch

it off because Ahsan people will be very grateful. How can you

guarantee another minister is not running his own shadow operation?

The rules have changed regarding ministerial conduct. We have to be

transparent about the meetings we have with people in the department,

any hospitality we receive, any gifts we receive and put it in the

public domain. None of that would have stopped George

Papaconstantinou? Anyone would have seen who you were meeting on.

Nothing was done about it. What the Prime Minister launched, what more

safeguards can be put in place? So we make sure ministers abide by the

ministerial code. By the letter and the spirit of it. At the end of the

day, what a great wrong was done? I understand the stupidity. I

understand the bizarre arrangement to have someone almost helping you

to have your own shadow policy, but what wrong was done? We don't know,

because we don't have the answers to the questions. There are a set

of facts for potential wrongdoing and the public need to be given

confidence there hasn't been wrong doing. And if there has, action

will be taken. As things stand at the moment, you cannot tell me what

great wrong was done? On a basic level in terms of the facts we do

know, if you asked most people up and down the country, do you think

it is acceptable, is it right for someone to take one of their mates

along to a meeting? That is down as stupid. What is wrong? That is very

serious. There aren't many people around the Cabinet table who have

special brands protection. That is because not everybody is dealing

with serious matters for the Ministry of Defence. That is why it

is wrong to take you made a long to meetings. Also, Adam Werritty's

financial backers, they have shelled out a lot of money for no

discernible influence. And that is their problem. His senior Cabinet

Minister was trying to build up a power base and was probably failing,

but he shouldn't have been allowed to try in that way. Let's go back

to the economy, which I suggest effects your constituents more than

the fate of Dr Fox. You have a situation where unemployment is at

a modern high and inflation is at a modern hype. We used to call that

stagflation, the economy is in growing and inflation is high. Did

you ever thing under this coalition you would return to stagflation?

need to address absolutely, the question on how to get the economy

growing again. It on blocks of the situation, the economic situation

we are in. The decisions we have taken to tackle the debt we have

inherited has restored Britain's credit rating. Had we not done that,

interest rates would be higher. You scoff, but it is true. It is true

Mervyn King has endorsed this, the UK's plan to reduce debt is the

right plan. Like a man on a salary of 20,000, lived on a salary of

30,000 for 10 years. Given countries who were not regarded as

having credible reduction plans... Have high interest rates. Can I ask

the question? Greece, Italy, France, Spain, now paying more for their

Government bonds and we pay far ours? The payment term on our debts

is longer. It is not for France? You have talked about Greece, Italy

and Spain. The term on our debt is longer than it is for those

countries collectively. Interest rates were falling when we left

Government. One of the biggest drivers we have low interest rates

is we're not in the eurozone and thank God Gordon Brown does not

take us into that. Of course we have got to reduce the deficit, but

you cannot do that without growth. That is the problem, we don't have

growth. We saw record borrowing in August, the highest level of

borrowing for a Government. Over the course of this Parliament, we

will see it �46 billion higher. your standards, that is the good

thing. You want borrowing to be higher? They say they have a plan

and it is working. But it isn't working. We have a plan, Matthew

Parris coins this important phrase, it is payback time for the UK. We

have got to pay back and grow the economy. Perfectly possible to do

both things. You are not doing it. We are doing it. Everybody agrees

growth is needed, the Labour Party keep shouting Winnie growth, growth,

why isn't the Government doing anything about growth. Ensure

privately George Osborne and David Cameron are worried about gross.

Nobody knows how to get it. Money has been Ponton to the economy, --

pumped into the economy. I don't agree with this idea nobody knows

what to do about it. We are quite a consumption led economy. The drop

in confidence which fell off a cliff after the Comprehensive

Spending Review was announced, has had an impact on the man, so people

have not been spending. If you look at the measures in a five-point

plan... If you look at what happened, one of the points of it

was to reduce VAT, they raise you imposed on families this year. When

we did that at the end of financial -- to 1008. The last time we had a

financial crisis we did that, we put �11 billion, and people went to

spend �8 billion into the economy and it led to an increase. In terms

of the extra borrowing at that time, it is a favourite of yours to ask

for year and get a specific figure, but I do know... I am not worried

about 2008, I am asking you now, this Government will borrow around

125 billion, more than planned, which is 120 tears. It is about 10%

of the GDP. How much would you borrow? If you look at the Alastair

Darling plan, look at the gap between the parties going forward.

There is a gap of 8 billion. Alastair Darling plan did not

include a cut in VAT? It was a different situation in a different

scenario. If you are Max out on your credit card, you don't borrow

more money. We are forgetting there are emerging markets, China, Brazil.

China's growth is falling as well. Germany exports more to China than

the whole of Europe put together. If there isn't an opportunity for

British-made products to export to those markets - it we cannot see

that, we are staring an opportunity in the face, an export-led recovery

is what the Government... Let's finish on the departments of

business which is run by the coalition Government. Citing

bureaucratic snags is conceding the 1.4 billion Growth Fund has

dispersed 1.5 �8 million. Why his The answer is you have got to give

value for money. If they don't provide that, we aren't any

position... Caroline, the money has not gone through. Now did you know

that if you're a taxpayer, you pay �107 every year to farmers. The

money forms part of the Common Agricultural policy, or CAP. And it

accounts for 40% of EU spending. Many governments have tried to

reform it. None have ever really succeeded. But the EU have decided

to have another go. We asked one farmer to explain why he thinks the

CAP project -- protect us from volatility in the market and at the

same time protects the consumer from volatility in food prices and

enables farmers to farm on the hills and other disadvantaged areas

where they provide a valuable landscape and other assets which

are incredibly important to the British public and also to tourism

We quite like the proposals from the CAP reform, they encourage

young Popple -- people do come into the industry and more research and

development. We worry about the complicated bureaucratic nature of

the proposals and we also worry about the fact that they might well

mean we are less competitive up rather than more competitive as a

result of the reforms. We need to be more market orientated so that

we become less reliant on payments from Europe for the it's incredibly

important to talk about the challenges ahead of us. Sir John

Beddington, the chief scientist of the Government, says we have to

produce more food in the next 50 years than we are produced in the

last 2000 due to the increased population in the world. One

proposal is to set aside more land and that, to me, seems totally

wrong given the challenges we face and the difficulty in achieving the

increase in food production as it is with a land we have. As farmers,

we would prefer it to derive our livelihoods in the market place but

as things stand today, at least half farmers would be out of

business were it not for the CAP payment. It's essential bigger

markets to work properly and that's the real challenge for government.

Gwyn Jones joins us now. Listening to that film, we have been talking

about food prices, people struggling to make ends meet and

they will say why can't farmers accept cuts, too? We absolutely

agree people are going to a very tough time at the moment and it's

very difficult. We also accept the Budget in Europe will be cut.

However, if we continue with food production within the European

Union, we are governed by the Common Agricultural Policy and

important thing for us is to make sure that its tears farmers away

from payments towards markets, and also make sure farmers in the UK

are not disadvantaged against competitors in the EU. Can we

afford to produce food on that sort of scale if we need that much

subsidy? Economically, it doesn't make sense. Do you accept that

argument? To an extent. The biggest problem we have is markets in many

areas just don't work for the the dairy industry in this country, we

have been four pence per litre below the European and world prices,

and also 27th out of 27 countries in Europe, so it's not just in milk,

but markets just don't work properly. You say farmers don't

want to be dependent on subsidies. Will that ever happen? How far away

are we from get into that position? With the last two reformers have

been slowly going in that direction but the real concern about this

particular proposal it takes us backwards actually add isn't going

to help to get us into a more competitive position. So we can

move away from payments from Europe. How old do you feel about wealthy

landowners getting the same sort of money as less well-off people

question is the right Prince Charles receives �1.3 million in

subsidies, for example? Generally, we are disadvantage in this country

if there was capping on payments, simply because our farms are

generally bigger than the ones in Europe. We have some very large

bombs in the horticultural sector and they are suffering incredibly

at the moment. They have millions of turnover and yet they are not

making profits and not covering their capital investments due to

the markets paying them less than the cost of production. We need to

produce more food but why are you taking more land out of production?

We are not. Well, more Greening. It's not my proposal. We have

proposed a reform which is a backward-looking and what we need

to do is produce more food sustainably. First there goes the

Asian is tomorrow for that we have said these proposals are

disappointing but we are going to work really hard to get a better

deal for UK farmers, taxpayers and consumers. What can you offer?

Times Arpad and why we are subsidising the pig prices rise? --

times are hard. -- big price rises. What is the dealer you're going to

be fighting for exactly? What is the deal? A greener CAP, because it

gives other public goods in return for the money also you not only

good food of good quality, say be produced, a reasonable price, but

the farmer takes measures to protect the environment for the we

want to get it recognised. pleased the Secretary of State

agrees more land should be taken out of it production, that's good.

Given the negative stance the Government has towards the CAP, we

worry how effective the negotiations are going to be, and

how will we get a more competitive position for us as British farmers?

We have to fish there. -- finish there. Thank you for coming in.

Caroline, do you remember this? looks like you run to the hills?

Not at all, we have to reform the Forestry Commission, but that the

regulator and a major seller of timber into the market and in this

day and age, you can't be the regulator and a major player, so we

have to reform those kinds of conflicts of interest. So the

Lady's Not For turning yet? No. I am ending the public consultation

on this and I take full responsibility for that for the

it's quite clear from the early responses to the consultation that

the public and many honourable members are not happy with the

proposals we set out. I am sorry. We got it wrong. But we have

listened to people's concerns. the lady was for turning after all.

U-turning over government proposals to sell off the forests. It's

amazing what a campaign led by a national newspaper, some rural

campaign groups and the Ramblers can do. And we are joined by the

Whitehall Editor of that national newspaper, the Daily Telegraph,

whose current campaign is aiming to defeat the Government's planning

policy. Before I come to you, are you going to do any you turns on

the planning laws? The point I wanted to make, the convicted

interest about being a regulator and adviser... That's history. Are

you going to U-turn on the planning laws? No, because they don't plan

for sustainable development. Everyone watching this programme

can think of where housing estates have been bolted on two villages

without the infrastructure in place. Surely you don't want to keep laws

which keep sustainable development. So your campaign will fail?

think it's a short-term problem for the Government, getting the economy

to grow but long term it will be a problem for rural areas. People are

concerned about building on green areas. Why are there four times as

many Treasury officials were among the plans as your officials? It

blows apart the whole argument it's an unbiased document for the first

of all, to be perfectly clear, Protection Fault green belts,

outstanding national beauty. National parks, none of this

changes. Rural areas is the concern. It's not DEFRA planning. Do you

really want the existing laws that produce unsustainable development

to continue under formed? You said you don't. You have waved the white

flag of the whole issue. I haven't up. This is fiction. You are

rewriting planning rules which have been in place for 50 years.

don't take policy documents to your sunbed. Communities department, in

charge by Eric Pickles, we work with local committees because we

believe sustainable develop at the heart of the public system will

produce a better result. Sustainable development is a brick

wrapped in something else. More building on the countryside. You

have got to bring back brownfield In 1987 per... Let me finish. In

1987, it is economically socially and environmentally, the three

pillars Of sustainable development. It's a lawyers' charter, simple as

that of. Will you put it to a vote? It's a consultation. It was like

being at Wimbledon there and I felt like the referee. That's it. We

have to leave it there. Thanks to our guests. Will be the result of