Browse content similar to 31/10/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Are councils | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
failing to find children in care a proper home? The Government has | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
decided to name and shame the best and worst local authorites which | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
arrange adoption in England, and says will take tough action against | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
authorities that fail to deal swiftly with adoption cases. The | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
fair fuel lobby is still hot under the collar about the price of | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
petrol. Over 100,000 people say they want MPs to debate the issue, | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
but will they get the chance? We'll speak to Quentin Willson from the | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
campaign. And as Syria warns the West not to | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
intervene in the country's uprising, we'll be revisiting the Arab Spring. | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
All of that in the next half hour, and with us for the duration, Tony | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
Blair's former envoy to the Middle East, Lord Levy. He also raised a | :01:09. | :01:15. | |
lot of money for the Labour Party. Welcome. Thank you. First, let's | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
talk about growth, because the Government's keen to announce today | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
which businesses in England will benefit from nearly �1 billion of | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
Government support. The money is the second and final instalment | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
from the regional growth fund. The Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg, | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
says it will safeguard more than 200,000 jobs. Growth is obviously | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
the key word at the moment, Michael Levy. But do you think the | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
Government, having talked about cutting the deficit, dealing with | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
the debt crisis, that that is crucial, that politicians from | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
across the spectrum have talked down the economy too much and | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
stopped people spending? Obviously there has been a position where you | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
were negative, negative, negative, that message permeates to the fact | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
that people really believe it is so negative, where do we go from here, | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
what do I do? On the other hand, I do believe that there has to be a | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
realistic approach to where we are at. Many people are being squeezed, | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
particularly in the middle income. They really are being hit hard, and | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
therefore they know their own budgets and they know how difficult | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
it is for them. It is almost irrelevant what politicians are | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
saying. People need to assess their own situation and how they can cope | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
and how they can manage with their own budgets. Do you think then and | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
do you agree with Ed Miliband and Ed balls that the answer is to | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
increase spending mead throw boost the economy? I do -- immediately to | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
boost the economy? I do think there has to be a boost to the economy. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
More than the coalition is doing? Probably yes. I believe that our | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
economy compared to a number of countries in the world isn't in | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
such poor shape, and die think it does need a boost. -- I do think it | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
guz need a boost, in a managed way and not something that's going to | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
be irresponsible, but the economy certainly does need a push at this | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
moment. Does Labour have a better plan, do you think, for doing that | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
and for forcing the banks to lend more to businesses, which is still | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
one of the biggest problems? know, it is always very difficult | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
when you are in opposition, Jo, because you are really talking, you | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
are coming up with plans, but they are not being act vaited. It's a | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
very frustrating position to be in opposition, because it is the | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
Government that's continually calling the shots. But if we look | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
over this last period of time, there has only been one message | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
from this Government - look at Labour did badly. There hasn't been | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
the message, look what we are going to do positively to change things. | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
It's been negative historically on Labour, not look at what we, the | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
Government, are doing to make things better. I think that's where | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
the problem arises. Briefly, Ed Miliband has hired this property | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
tycoon as Labour's fund-raising adviser, a job that you did. He is | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
going to devise new methods of drumming up support through local | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
groups across the country. Is that going to work? My even message is, | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
good luck. I thought it might be. Now it's time for our daily quiz. | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
Today, the United Nations is to announce that the world population | :04:27. | :04:37. | |
:04:37. | :04:42. | ||
has reached 7 billion, so our At the end of the show Michael will | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
attempt to give us the right answer. I will trial. | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
Today is the start of National Adoption Week, where people are | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
urged to consider the possibility of adopting vulnerable children. | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
That all sounds well and good, but with over 65,000 children currently | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
in care in England, only 3,050 were adopted last year. This morning, | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
David Cameron said things had to change and he's promised tough | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
action against local authorities which fail to deal swiftly with | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
adoption cases. Powers already exist to strip local authorities of | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
their adoption responsibilities, but the Prime Minister has said | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
he's ready to enforce them, so better-performing councils can take | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
over, or the service will be contracted out. According to the | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
latest figures, children wait an average of two years and seven | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
months to be adopted. And only 60 babies were adopted last year. The | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Government has today published league tables ranking local | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
authorities on how quickly they place children in care for adoption. | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
York came top, placing 100% of children with adoptive parents | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
within the 12-month time-frame. Hackney Council, who we'll be | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
speaking to in a moment, came bottom, placing only 43% of | :05:42. | :05:50. | |
children in the 12 months. Earlier this morning, I spoke to the | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
Children's Minister, Tim Loughton, and asked him if he should be | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
focusing on getting more people to come forward to adopt children, | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
rather than criticising councils. The real problem is the whole | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
system, it is not just local authorities who I think need to up | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
their game. It is also the courts, which are taking far too much time | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
going through the courts, but it is also a lot of parents are being | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
discouraged from coming forward. Lots of myths are going around. | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
What's really important ooct this whole campaign we are doing this | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
week is the fact we want to encourage people who think they can | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
offer a foster home or be adoptive parents, urging them to knock on | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
the Town Hall door and saying we are interested. Why are you saming | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
your fire at local councils when you've admitted it is not just | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
about them. The courts are the ones who hold up proceedings and make it | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
extremely difficult to get a completed adoption order in the | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
first year? The whole system is not working properly. You are saying to | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
councils they have to up their game, or else. And I'm also saying to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
courts, and we are having the family law review published this | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
Thursday, where it will make it very clear that there is too much | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
delay in the courts, there is too much bureaucracy and there is too | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
much overlap in the courts. That needs to be got right as well. This | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
is a joint effort. The crazy thing here is we are all on the same side, | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
whether you are a judge, a social worker or running an adoption | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
sfrbgs or whether you are a Government Minister. The thing we | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
all want to see is a better deal for demids care and more kids for | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
whom it is appropriate to be able to to be adopted to give them a | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
safe, stable, loving family placement. Too many kids are | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
missing out on that at the moment. So how should councils up their | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
game? By looking at examples of best practice elsewhere. We are | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
publishing 15 different tables today with different performance | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
figures on how children in care are doing, how well authorities are | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
doing at getting kids adopted. Things like that. Parts of the | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
country are doing certain parts of the whole adoption process well. | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
The trouble is very few people are doing all of it well together. | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
much should the issue of race for example be taken into account? Is | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
it no longer important? I have made it clear time and again until I'm | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
blue in the face, we issued new guidance in March that ethnic | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
matching must not be a deal breaker An ideal world, if we could find | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
something approaching an ethnic match it would be nice, but it | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
shouldn't be a deal breaker. The most important consideration is, | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
can that perspective adoptive family offer a safe, stable, loving | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
environment for that child? If it can, then let's get on with it | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
rather than all this political correctness about getting some | :08:43. | :08:53. | |
:08:53. | :08:53. | ||
idealistic ethnic match, which usually doesn't exist anyway. | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
much would you give before you give powers away? Hackney do well around | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
children in care and keeping families together. You've got to | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
look ti figures carefully to see where certain authorities are doing | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
well... So the figures are misleading. By saying councils have | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
to up their game, you said Hackney is doing well. I said Hackney is | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
doing parts of its care well but the number of kids they are getting | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
into adoption is poor. I want them to do all of that process well. | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
That's story around the country. That's why I'm not producing a raw | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
comparison. We are producing all the information so people can drill | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
down into what parts of the whole children in care adoption system | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
certain authorities are doing well and where they are not. Let's work | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
on the weak spots. They only need to knock on the door of other | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
authorities that are doing it much better toe get advice and help to | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
see how they can up their game. For many adoption isn't the priority. | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
It is a last resort. We are saying it should be a first resort for | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
many kids for whom there is no safe way back to their birth families. | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
Would you take power from councils who do not, as you say, up their | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
game? Local authorities, who do not do this seriously, if they are | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
still plateauing if they are poor performers or are trending | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
downwards, I'm going be serious questions about are they the right | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
people to continue running an adoption service for children in | :10:27. | :10:34. | |
their care. If there are not, -- if they are not, there are other | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
agencies who may be a better option. With us now is Alan Wood, Director | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
of Children's Services in Hackney, one of the councils at the bottom | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
of the Government's league table for the number of children adopted | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
within 12 months. The threat was pretty clear there. Your record is | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
poor, you are the bottom of this league table, powers could be taken | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
away. Well, our record is actually very good. How is it very good | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
compared to what Tim Loughton has been saying? The Minister referred | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
to a range of data available. The most important piece of data is | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
when Hackney makes an adoptive placement it sticks, it doesn't | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
break down. You have to consider all of these issues like timescale, | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
types of children. We have a deliberate policy of pouring | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
resources into support children in families. Because of that we have | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
significantly reduced the number of children loo are in care. Because | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
we've reduced the number of children in care the width of need | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
among those children tends to be much more acute and needy. We have | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
significant sibling groups for example. We have children with | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
foetal alcohol syndrome, children who are disruptive and missed | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
places in schools. We are dealing with a much more complex set of | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
young people. This data is also two years out of date. Authorities' | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
performance since that time shows a dramatic improvement on timescales. | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
Timescales a narrow slais of a very complex pie chart of information in | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
and data. We've got data but little intelligence and am sis. If you've | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
been so successful in terms of making the adoptions work for the | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
children you have placed, can't you just speed up that process and | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
place more of them? We areed about timeliness. We are all in this | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
together. Our social workers work very hard to get the best | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
placements for our children, but we are not going to make a prospect | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
where there's a prospect of breaking down. Let me give you an | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
example. We made a placement of a large family, including children | :12:34. | :12:44. | |
with a dibble ty. Trialling -- with a disability. We had to extend this | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
because the mother schooled a second place from us. Do you not | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
agree more families would come forward if they didn't think it was | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
such a cumbersome, long-winded and painful process? I think there is | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
some sense in that. We don't have a problem of having a number of | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
families forward. We have lots of people who want to adopt in Hackney, | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
lots of people from across the range ofeth in thisities. That's | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
why it is difficult to get the right placement. It is not that we | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
are losing or don't have adoptive parents but we have complex cases. | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
How much children do you have waiting?? Thisier we think there | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
are 25 children. Out of how many? We have 230 children in care. A | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
small percentage of those will go into it's adoption world. If you | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
look at last year, we had seven children who were placed for | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
adoption. We are talking of small numbers. One child who is adopted | :13:43. | :13:52. | |
after a year and a week makes a complete hash of the percentages. | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
Michael Levy, are Government tables helpful? I don't think so at all. | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
What I really don't understand, if you have got an area where an | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
analysis and a table shows how well they are doing, it is not about | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
praising and shaming, it is about how did you get them to help an | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
area where on the surface it would appear they are not doing well. | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
Because different circumstances, different children, different | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
families, different ethnicity groups. There are so many | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
differences. Why don't we use an area why York, you are doing well, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
Hackney, perhaps you are not doing so well, getting them together, how | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
can they learn from each other's experiences? This is too sensitive | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
for naming and shaming. This is much more about how do we help each | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
other to deal with what is a problem that desperately needs | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
dealing with? What would your message be to the Government? | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
are all in this together. If we have all of the data available it | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
is a pity there wasn't much more discussion between local | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
authorities and Government about this information. I think we could | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
have put the panoply of information before people. As Michael says, | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
encouraging local authorities to work together is important. We for | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
example support other authorities around adoption placements. So it | :15:09. | :15:19. | |
:15:19. | :15:19. | ||
is not as simple as one slice of a Following the demise of Colonel | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
Gaddafi, many are asking what prospect is there of direct | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
military intervention in Syria? 3000 have been killed in eight | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
months of violence there. This weekend, President Assad warned | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
against such action, saying that foreign intervention would burn the | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
whole of the Middle East. Where does the Arab Spring go from here? | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
If the world watched as a badly injured older man was dragged from | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
a drainage pipe, brutalised and shot dead, you can be sure in | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
Damascus the President of Syria also watched the unseemly demise of | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
Muammar Gaddafi after 42 years of dictatorship. Perhaps as he warned | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
the West not to intervene, in his country, racked with months of | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
unrest and oppression, he is thinking what many are asking, | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
where next? Try to judge what is going to come next is particularly | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
difficult. We do a lot of work on the Yemen and the Yemeni President | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
has defied all predictions on his demise. He was nearly assassinated. | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
People said goodbye to him, and now he is back in Yemen, still rolling. | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
That suggests that President Al Rashad could cling on for much | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
longer than Europeans are expecting. -- President Mashhad. -- President | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
Assad. The third candidate is Bahrain. A country with a deep- | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
seated religious division that goes back further than any spring of | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
this year. Perhaps the West was a little optimistic. We saw the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
world's media ascend on Bahrain thinking that perhaps this would be | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
the next place for a revolution. Probably, that encouraged the | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
protests, with the protesters thinking they would get Western | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
backing, but the Western governments were not prepared to | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
back them, particularly once Saudi Arabia firmly sided with the ruling | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
family there. The story in Bahrain is not over. And there is no doubt | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
that in a decade, the region has changed out of all recognition. Our | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
response to it has, too. 41 MP collecting the trappings -- | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
trappings of dictators from their palaces, the mistakes in Iraq, | :17:38. | :17:48. | |
:17:48. | :17:49. | ||
Afghanistan and the response to 9/11 which he felt have encouraged | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
extremism, this is fascinating. What I found interesting was that I | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
found and his smallest -- Islamist commander who have fought in Iraq | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
and Afghanistan. He said to me that this was the first time the West | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
has to do with the ordinary people. "We will not forget it." I thought | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
that was a remarkable comment. It suggests that the actions of | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
Cameron and Sarkozy and President Obama, that they have started to | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
roll back the damage done since 9/11. If so, not only do we need to | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
focus on what to do with Syria, Yemen and Bahrain's regimes fall, | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
but where else the Arab Spring a touch. We have seen reforms | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
promised in Morocco and all man. There are questions hanging over | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
Saudi Arabia and Algeria, which have all the ingredients for bigger | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
protests to come. Lord Levy is still with us. Should do now be | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
foreign intervention in Libya -- Syria? Absolutely not. -- should | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
they are now be foreign intervention. Syria is very complex. | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
There is a situation. I do not know if people lead -- people read the | :18:59. | :19:06. | |
interview that President Assad did in the Telegraph yesterday. So many | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
different factions within Syria, the issue with Turkey and how | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
Turkey is reacting to Syria. You have the Arab League, in terms of | :19:16. | :19:24. | |
how that is reacting, you have the UN, where China and Russia would | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
against sanctions. You are saying it is diplomatically too difficult | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
queue that it is a very difficult situation. Is it good what is going | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
on in Syria? Of course not. Is the tragic loss of life in disaster? | :19:37. | :19:46. | |
Yes, of course it is. I feel that we have to see what will go on, | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
particularly with Turkey. You have the Syrian National Council | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
operating from within Turkey, you have the Arab League, where they | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
are themselves trying to take measures in Syria to solve some of | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
the issues. You have President Assad saying that he is going to | :20:05. | :20:13. | |
make changes. Do you believe that? I think it is going to be a very, | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
very slow process. And in between, the violence continues? | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
violence is continuing but what would happen if there were Western | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
intervention? I think that would be a greater disaster. A greater | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
disaster than what is going on right now. This is not a simple | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
situation. There is not an end game scenario. This is not one of those | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
situations. You can see why people would argue that British foreign | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
policy smacks of hypocrisy. What is new about hypocrisy within most | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
countries' fallen -- foreign-policy. There is not much new about that. | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
Libya and Syria are very, very different situations. To have | :21:04. | :21:12. | |
imposed a no-fly zone in Libya with a UN resolution, with difficulty, | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
and Arab League agreement, that is a very different situation to the | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
situation in Syria. You knew his father, President Assad's father. | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
What you would -- what would you advise David Cameron to do now in | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
dealing with his son? I have also met the sun on a number of | :21:32. | :21:39. | |
occasions. My advice would be worked through the UN, work closely | :21:40. | :21:48. | |
with the Arab League, work closely with Turkey and evaluate the | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
position on a very regular basis. The informant continually. -- be | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
informed continually. The UN, the Arab League and Turkey, working | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
with them and watching those spaces continually, that would be my | :22:04. | :22:10. | |
advice. Will he go voluntarily? No. Do you regret how close the Blair | :22:10. | :22:20. | |
:22:20. | :22:20. | ||
Government got to Colonel Gaddafi? There are two issues here. Do I | :22:20. | :22:28. | |
regret the fact that one was able to wean Gaddafi and the regime off | :22:28. | :22:36. | |
WMD or the potential of WMD? No. I do not have crept that at all. -- I | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
do not regret that. Two why feel that the subsequent closeness that | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
manifested as a result of that was wrong? Yes. I think there was an | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
issue, winning him off of WMD. There was an issue, can Britain do | :22:50. | :22:57. | |
business? You have a big difference between Syria and Libya going back | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
to the government issue. One has oil and one has vast reserves. The | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
other does not. You may remember that last week we | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
were talking about Europe. After a backbench MPs called for a | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
discussion in the Commons. A petition attributed to debate on | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster. Although | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
getting 100,000 names on a petition is not a guarantee for a debate, it | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
does help. Why is a cut in fuel duty not on the agenda, which has | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
also gain signatures? The rising cost of fuel has been a long- | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
standing problem. In 2000, fuel protests paralysed parts of Britain | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
for seven days causing a crisis in the NHS, emptying supermarket | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
shelves and even closing schools. The protesters have won concessions | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
from the Government. But then Gordon Brown announced that duty | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
rates would be frozen, up till April 2002. But it was not enough. | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
In the 11 years since we have seen the motorways go-slow, | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
demonstrations at oil depot has had been seen. I am joined by Quentin | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
Willson, the motoring journalist. I'm also joined by Natascha Engel, | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
chair of the Backbench Business Committee, responsible for | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
scheduling the debate. Affair fuelled UK campaign has 100,000 | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
signatures, the amount needed to look at the debate. When will it | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
happen? -- the FairFuelUK campaign. I'm glad to be given the | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
opportunity to come and explain this. We meet as a committee once a | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
week and once a week only, on a Tuesday. We are allocated time to | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
schedule debates by the Government. The FairFuelUK campaign came to us | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
in the form of Robert Huth and Fenby, to ask for time to debate | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
the petition. To have a vote, we have to have a debate in the | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
chamber, not Westminster Hall. If we were not allocated time in the | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
chamber which was why we could not have the debate. That is the | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
technical explanation but I suppose, in a way, the Government has raised | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
expectations. The public now expects, as you understand, that if | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
they get 100,000 signatures on an electronic petition, they will have | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
a debate. That's right. You have made the distinction between what | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
is the Government and what is the backbenchers. We do not have time | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
or power, we cannot say that we want to have a debating chamber. We | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
have to wait for the Government to allocate time. -- have a debate in | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
the chamber. The Government have brought in this system, of which is | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
welcome, but we do not have the time for the debate. Quentin will | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
not have this debate? We have not said that. The next time we are | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
allocated a day in the chamber, we will look at it to get -- look at | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
it again. Are you satisfied with that? I understand that Natascha | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
Engel is between a rock and a hard place. We have the expectation of | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
consumers thinking that they will get the debate if they get 100,000 | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
signatures. This is sending out the wrong message about government | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
accountability. I know you cannot say this on air, but I need to know | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
that we will get a debate, because there is hardship out there. | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
you do everything you can and assure him that he will get the | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
debate? Actually, tomorrow we meet at 1pm and there is the electronic | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
petition on fair fuel but there are also other debates that have been | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
brought to us. It all depends on what it is that comes before us. I | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
would hate to say that, as the chair, I will decide what gets | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
debated but having said that, this is such an important issue. I | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
represent a rural constituency and this is one of my number one Paul | :26:50. | :26:58. | |
Spike issues. It has a high chance of being debated. You surely have | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
the power to say look, let's do it? We are all very supportive of the | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
process, but it is a committee of seven people. There is a high | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
likelihood we will do this. I want the Government to say Rosslea that | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
we are going to talk about this because it is affecting growth and | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
prosperity. The price of petrol has come down just recently. Only | :27:19. | :27:26. | |
slightly. We have two more duty rises next year, 8p. You have | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
Morrisons, as a, NCP car-parks, Tesco's, all saying that footfall | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
has been affected by higher fuel duty. -- ASDA. You say you are | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
supporting the electronic petition but a picture in a difficult | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
position. Is this the right way to go? I think it is the wrong way to | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
go because this has the potential to destroy what we do on the | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
business committee. Increasingly, we are only looking at debate | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
brought to us that have 100,000 signatures attached. I think we | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
need to separate out what his backbench business and what are | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
electronic petitions. If you have electronic petitions, you do not | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
have direct action. That is the spectre that is facing us. If the | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
committee says no for whatever reason, what is your next step? | :28:12. | :28:21. | |
will go into hiding! Prepare for the worst! A mildly phrased letter | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
was delivered to Downing Street this morning. We will get more | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
rockets. I am not saying direct action. God forbid. Let us do this | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
through the political process and get a statement from the Government | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
that they will look at this. We just want a debate. You could be | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
here again on future issues. But I will have to wind it up. Well, just | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
time before we go to find out the answer to a quiz and the question | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
was, what was the population of the world when Lord Levy was born? What | :28:49. | :28:54. |