Browse content similar to 08/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to The Daily Politics. The contagion in | :00:27. | :00:34. | |
the eurozone continues to spread. Italy's cost of borrowing source to | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
record levels. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi faces losing a | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
vote in the Italian parliament this afternoon. We will bring you the | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
latest. Back home, is the career of Home | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
Secretary, Theresa May, in jeopardy. Jed she told the Commons that | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
immigration officials acted without her authority when they lifted | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
controls for non-European nationals. Today she is grilled by the select | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
commity. The Government's ambitious plans | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
for a �32 billion high-speed rail link between London and Birmingham | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
are dammed with faint praise in a report published today. We will | :01:06. | :01:16. | |
:01:16. | :01:19. | ||
debate the pros and the cons of these ambitious plans. | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
Our Trade Minister, Lord Digby Jones is with us. | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
The yield on Italian bonds reach the 6.6% yesterday. Not a good omen. | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
The mark of Berlusconi. This yield is the interest they pay on money | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
that they borrow, called the yield, it reached today, I think, this | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
morning, 6.74%, it is the highest level that these yields have been | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
at since Italy joined the euro. Italy has debts of, let me get it | :01:53. | :02:00. | |
right, 1.9 trillion euro, almost 2 trillion euros. As a huge economy, | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
that dwarfs Greece, and it has more bonds that any country in the world, | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
other than America and Japan. That is a lot of dent to service. It is | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
thought to be too big for the other eurocountries to bail out if it | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
goes pear-shaped. If Italy goes down it could be catastrophic. The | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
Chancellor, George Osborne, called on colleagues to be clear about | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
their intention at the next big meeting. The eurozone needs to show | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
the world it can stand behind its currency. We can't wait upon | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
developments in Athens and Rome. We have to make progress here in | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
Brussels. If we don't, that will continue to have a very damaging | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
effect on the entire European economy, including the British | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
economy, and certainly speaking as the British Finance Minister, the | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
best possible boost the British economy could have this autumn | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
would be a resolution of the eurozone crisis. That was the | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
Chancellor, George Osborne, the political situation in Italy is | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
also deteriorating. The future of Italian Prime Minister, Silvio | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
Berlusconi, looks in doubt, with support ebbing away at home. He | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
faces losing a vote in the Italian parliament this afternoon, bringing | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
yet more political uncertainty to the eurozone. Let's get the latest | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
from our correspondent in Rome. Is it inevitable now that | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
Berlusconi will go? Not if you listen to Mr Berlusconi himself. | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
He's all over the Italian media this morning, talking about | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
fighting on. All weekend he says that he has the number, he has a | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
majority, he is going forward, he's not going anywhere. There is | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
speculation that there have been just two many defections from his | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
side of the House, and that he really maybe in trouble. What we | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
will see in the afternoon is a vote on a budget measure, important that | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
it goes ahead. The opposition may not try to vote it down, the | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
opposition may abstain. We should get a good sense of whether Mr | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Berlusconi is right, whether he really does have the numbers he | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
needs to continue to govern Italy. If doesn't, then you might expect a | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
confidence motion within days from the opposition, and then it would | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
seem possible that Mr Berlusconi would go down to humiliating defeat, | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
if he didn't resign beforehand. It is all to be played for in the | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
hours ahead. Economically, is it hitting home that actually Italy's | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
detects are so big, that the rest of Europe wouldn't be able to bail | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
them out any way? I think the analysts, the thinkers, the | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
politicians, and many people of that ilk are acutely aware, and | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
desperately worried when you speak to any politician about the way | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
ahead for Italy at the moment, on the streets people aren't just | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
quite as wired into the intricacies of the bond markets. Ordinary | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
people on the street feel the economy is seizing up, there are | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
fewer opportunities, life is getting harder. If you say to them, | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
do you believe this country is on course for something like Greece, | :05:01. | :05:08. | |
they tend to think, surely not. This country is rich, just two big | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
to be badly managed into that - too big to be badly managed into that | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
sort of situation. Digby Jones, I put it to you, getting rid of Mr | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
Berlusconi, it may be a necessary condition for moving forward, but | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
it is anything but a sufficient condition? Absolutely right. It | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
will kick the can down the road. But at the end of the day, the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
western democracies have got to understand that for years we have | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
all paid ourselves money we have never earned. And if you stop a guy | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
on the street, in Italy or outside St Paul's, they will all blame the | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
bankers. This is different to that. The 2008 recession you can blame | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
the bankers for that, you could, a lot of other reasons too, this is | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
about actually the other way round, the bankers have plugged the gap | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
for years, so democratic politicians can say to people, you | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
can have lots and lots of prizes and we are not making the money. | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
Italy has its private savings profile fine, it is not a prove lig | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
gate nation personally, people save, what it is, is they have paid | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
themselves money they have never earned as a nation. Only Zimbabwe | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
has had a lower growth profile, on an average over ten years, than | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
Italy. It has not grown. At home f the income coming in isn't | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
sufficient for your credit card, your overdraft and mortgage, you go | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
bust. In business, if you are not selling enough, and you have lots | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
of debt, you go bust. Countries are no different. What you have is | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
Italy's growth over ten years has been very, very poor, their debt, | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
their public spending, their pensions, health, education, their | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
roads, has been high, gap, plug it with debt. Suddenly, everybody | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
around Europe is going, can't afford all this, and there is no | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
growth profile to get them out of it. No politician, elected instead | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
of Berlusconi will give them an answer other tharpbgs pay your tax, | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
because payment of tax is a voluntary event in Italy. So pay | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
your tax, and sorry, you can't retire at 55, you will have to pay | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
more in all you do, and you will have less. Same in Greece, same in | :07:07. | :07:17. | |
France. I have to say, same in Britain. That is your issue. | :07:17. | :07:24. | |
problem I suggest in Italy, before Berlusconi, in 50 years Italy had | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
49 different prime ministers, that is hardly a recipe for financial | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
stability. And they are now talking of putting in, not an elected | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
politician, but Mr Monti, a technocrat, a euopean commissioner, | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
he will have no democratic legitimacy, there will be | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
demonstrations on the street. Isn't it heading at some stage for a | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
default? Historically, that is why Italy has said we will join the | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
euro in the morning, we don't mind taking rules and regulations from | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
Brussels, we don't intend to comply. Why? Deep in their souls, they know | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
they don't have prime ministers who have ever led their nation. Having | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
a technocrat, I would submit, is going to make no difference, at the | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
end of the day they will go on the street and stop it happening. | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
Therefore, whether you manage it within the euro, or whether you | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
come out of the euro, there will, and I think you are right, there | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
will be a form of default. You can't afford it pay the debt back. | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
The fundamental problem, given the sums of money we are talking about, | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
next year the Italians have 300 billion of their euros of debt | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
comes to maturity, they can only pay that back by borrowing another | :08:34. | :08:44. | |
:08:44. | :08:44. | ||
300 billion. It is a bit like a popbzcy scheme the Italian | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Government - popbz did I scheme the Italian Government, and there is - | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
Ponzi scheme the Italian Government, and no nation or group of nations | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
can pay them out? No European leader will say, vote for me, I | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
will close your libraries, and give the money to Italy. Turkeys don't | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
vote for Christmas, that is why there will be a default, because | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
there isn't enough money to bail them out. The IMF has been sent to | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
Rome to monitor Mr Berlusconi's behaviour, I'm told a few women's | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
groups will have to monitor his behaviour too. | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
They will take their place in the queue. It is the daily quiz, | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
sticking with yuerpbgs the question for today is which basic food stuff | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
has the EU announced must have the ingredients listed on the packaging. | :09:36. | :09:43. | |
Peanut, eggs, honey or potatoes. At the end of the show, Digby will | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
give us the right answer. What is the ingredient of an egg, | :09:49. | :09:59. | |
:09:59. | :10:04. | ||
but an egg, how many committees him, it might have been a trick | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
question. There is a joke on the Internet at the expense of Theresa | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
May, it is knock, knock. Who's there? Come in. | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
Miss May is under fire after it was revealed that border controls were | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
waved on non-nationals. Yesterday she revealed they were acting | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
without her knowledge, then we extended a scheme that was only | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
intended to apply to non-EU passport holders. I didn't given my | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
authorisation to any of these decision, indeed, I told officials | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
explicitly that the pilot was to go no further than we agreed. As a | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
result of these unauthorised actions, we will never know how | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
many people entered the country who should have been prevented from | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
doing so after being flagged by the warnings index. That was May, in | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
just under half an hour, the Home Secretary will face another | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
grilling. This time from MPs on the Home Affairs Select Committee. I'm | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
joined now by our correspondent. How hard a time will she get? | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
would be Home Secretary, first you have to go through that in the | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
House of Commons. There was one moment where she simply didn't seem | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
sure where her pilot was being applied across the country. You | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
look at your diary for the next day and think things can only get | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
better, and you see you have the Home Affairs Select Committee with | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Keith Vaz, that will be a joy. No, of course it won't be eezy, the | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
opposition are looking at this - easy, the opposition are looking at | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
the simple response, it was the officials that done it, I didn't | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
know. The obvious response from the opposition is why didn't you know. | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
We can accept you were ignorant, how can you be ignorant and | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
competent at the same time. To prove it doesn't rain but pour on | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
the Home Office tower, the UK borders agency are facing legal | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
action from a kpwroup of language schools who said they were wrongly | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
included on a list of groups banned from bringing people into the | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
country. She will come under political pressure today, I have | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
been shown a memo sent by the head of UK BA, last week it was sent, I | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
got to see it this morning. It says any relaxation from the rules will | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
need his personal authority, his personal authorisation. I can tell | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
you this, she is in trouble now for relaxations, if come Christmas time | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
we have queues of two, three, four hours time at immigration control, | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
she will be in trouble for that. Just briefly, adding to her woe, in | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
political terms, how dangerous is it for her? As long as she can | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
stick to this line, that actually it wasn't something she knew about, | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
that cannot be eroded. Frankly, as long as she puts up a little bit | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
more of a tough and convincing performance in the select committee | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
than maybe she did at points yesterday. Maybe if she can take a | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
more substantive look at the questions and not engage wholly in | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
the Labour bashing, which certainly didn't get the hackles up, but the | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
confidence of some Labour backbenchers yesterday, she should | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
be fine. She has the Prime Minister's backing. We need more | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
fact before we have a dead duck Home Secretary on our hands. There | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
will be plenty of people in journalism and the opposition | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
trying to find out damaging things. We are joined by Alp Mehmet, a | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
former British ambassador, before that an immigration official | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
himself. He's now the vice chairman of Migration Watch. Welcome to the | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
programme. There seem to be rather big basic contradictions in what | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
Theresa May has said, and then what seems to have come out of leaked | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
document from the border agency. She said that this was a pilot | :13:41. | :13:48. | |
scheme, except it applied to every single port and airport, she then | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
said that there was strict instruction that is the pilot was | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
to go no further in terms of relaxation than European passport | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
holders, but the document says that actually senior managers could give | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
further measures at local ports and airports, they could go further | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
than she actually said. It was done for more risk-based assessments on | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
security, but the instruction on the document says it is to prevent | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
the excessive queuing to beat the summer traffic. What will people | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
make, it is hugely embarrassing? is hugely embarrassing for Theresa | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
May, shy will be the first to be the first to acknowledge. That I | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
was an immigration officer 30 years ago. Queues at ports is nothing UN | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
the pressure to get people through the ports quickly was happening in | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
the 1970s and 1980s, that is something always going on. I | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
personally would not exaggerate the problem here. Which problem? | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
problem of the fact that a lot of people may have got in who didn't | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
get in. The fact is, we're not interested in children, we're not | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
interested in groups, we are not interested in a lot of people that | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
take up time. Now, I'm not suggesting we should do away with | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
controls, on the contrary, controls should remain there, if that means | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
people going through the controls more slowly, then so be it. But, | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
I'm not sure that this is as much of a problem as is being made out. | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
Except, as our correspondent said there, this is about what she knew | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
in her competence, isn't it. It seems to me she didn't know how | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
widespread the pilot was, sheer she herself in the Commons said, I | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
don't know - she herself in the Commons said I don't know how many | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
terrorist suspects and illegal immigrants have entered the public. | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
That won't reassure the public? won't. What I'm saying is whatever | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
the instructions were, and whatever the civil servants took upon | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
themselves to do, common sense should have prevailed. Those, they | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
had suspicions about, should not have been allowed to go through it. | :15:47. | :15:54. | |
I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, frankly. Really, just based on | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
experience? Based on experience, no immigration official would let | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
people through that they had serious concerns about. Would they | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
be able to tell if they weren't even looking at the passports of | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
some of these people? Well, of course you can tell, experience | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
tells you the sort of people that you will be interested in from | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
their movements, from the answers that they give. But you are blaming | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
staff a little bit like May and border officials and saying it is | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
down to them and they should have discretion, and no political | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
message was coming through. These leaked documents seem to suggest | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
that there was an instruction from on high, that not only said it | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
should apply to European passport holders, that it shouldn't just be | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
limited, but people should make up their own minds, and they could | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
take the measures themselves, if that was a political instruction, | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
surely they were carrying them out? What I'm saying is whatever | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
instructions went out, the actual controls should not have been | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
compromised, I don't believe it is compromised to the extent it is | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
suggested. In terms of business, we have been told it is drag on | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
business, lots of business people don't like Heathrow, they would | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
like to come through quicker than they do. You can see the competing | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
priorities here, if they were trying to reduce queue the over | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
summer months? I wouldn't put the business issue that high in terms | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
of want ago more efficient Heathrow, any more than a tourist or you and | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
I. With business it is the granting of visas beforehand, it is the all | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
security check that is take ages to get somebody from India into your | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
business in Britain. That's the issue for business. The issue at | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
Heathrow is a much wider issue from letting people in and looking at | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
the passport. The problem with Heathrow is it is not fit for | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
purpose in the 21st century. much danger do you believe she's | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
in? I'm with these two gentlemen. I reckon if nobody points the finger | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
at the fact she knew, and if we see heads roll at the top of the Civil | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
Service, for want of a better word, I think she's fine. I do worry when | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
I heard the words, "she has the complete backing of the Prime | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
Minister", that's like confidence in a football manager. I believe | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
she's doing a good job in many areas, she can't have the causal | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
link. Do civil servants always listen to their ministers? No. | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
I see, so we're all agreed on that! I was the minister and I say no. He | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
have the civil servant and he says yes. Who is telling the truth? | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
remember one civil servant saying to me, you go in and say that, and | :18:32. | :18:39. | |
you're on your own. The Home Office has a pretty terrible reputation, | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
all home secretaries fear what is going on. Going back to the UK | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
Border Agency, they have been pill lorryed and knocked about over the | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
last few years, we ought to look at what is happened to them under the | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
previous administration, mostly that does take and need a close | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
look. Will it make it more difficult for cuts to be carried | :18:59. | :19:06. | |
out at the border agencies? Definitely. I wish politicians | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
would talk about cuts meaning fewer people. They don't mean work hard | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
with fewer people, they mean work more cleverly. Use your existing or | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
less resource, think about how you use it and work for cleverly. Don't | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
just cut money, that means fewer people, but we're going to try to | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
do the same thing in the same way. The result is what you have seen | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
today. I vouch that was what he was telling us when he was a minister. | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
I used to constantly say, work more cleverly. Don't just try to put | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
people there. That will be the mantra. | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
Try getting through JFK without an American passport! | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
To some it is a white elephant which will spoil the countryside | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
and eat up tax-payers' money, to others it is the green alternative | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
to air travel, which will cat plult our antiquated public transport | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
system into the 21st century and provide an economic bust. It will | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
still eat up a lot of tax-payers' money. This morning plans for a new | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
high-speed network between London and Birmingham, have won the | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
lukewarm support of the transport committee. Tell us more. | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
All aboard, because the Transport Select Committee says there is a | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
good case for the line known as HS2, the �32 billion scheme, which will | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
link London and the Midlands on a new network, with speeds of up to | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
250 miles an hour, with plans to extend it to the north. The group | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
of MPs said it is obvious the economic impacts of high-speed rail | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
can vary and are not easily predicted, and HS2 could be the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
catalyst for these benefits. They accepted the proposed route is | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
likely to have substantial impacts on those living along it, and it is | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
unfortunate, it crosses the Chilterns, the Tory heartland and | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
an area of outstanding national beauty. There could be adverse | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
consequences for local communities. It is very necessary to consider | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
those as well. It is wrong to cast gate as nimbus people who are | :21:10. | :21:17. | |
simply expressing legitimate concerns about their local areas. | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
The committee says the Government should commit to extending it to | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
Leeds and Manchester before firmly committing the route. And building | :21:25. | :21:32. | |
a network between north to south should be a priority. | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
I'm joined by Andrea Leadsom, her constituently will be affected by | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
the proposed route. Welcome. This is a pretty milk and water | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
endorsement from these MPs. Yes. And I think rightly too. Where I am | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
on this is that I think it is an excellent thing to have it built. I | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
think it should be committed to leads and Manchester and glass go, | :21:55. | :22:05. | |
and go to the country, and go to parliamently people on the plan. | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
Make sure people will understand you will cut out slots at airports | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
and cut out air pollution and grow economies on the route. Three big | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
problems, it is not cost, firstly, let no-one in Birmingham think this | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
will really bust the Birmingham economy. It will make Birmingham | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
the most northern suburb of London. Why is that a big thing? It is not. | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
Why do you want to spend all that moneyen to? You have to get more | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
money and structure into the nation than we have. If you go on to Leeds | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
and Manchester and grow a high- speed network network you will take | :22:42. | :22:49. | |
people off motorways and aircraft. It is �32 billion, that only gets | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
you to Birmingham? Right, second point, this is where this lady and | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
I might find common ground. I cannot understand why, if you have | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
a pollution corridor already there, called the M40 and the Chiltern | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
line, why don't you build this, and yes, if someone says it costs more | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
money to iron out the curves and put the tunnels in, so be it, spend | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
the money. Don't go and rape a load of virgin countryside to do this, | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
that is the important thing. Hold on, I don't want a monolougue. I | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
would like to bring in our other guest. You are against it whatever | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
the route is? I am. If it went via Wales would you be in favour of it? | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
No, when you look at what the transport select committee is | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
saying, they are concluding it is a good thing, but all the points | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
suggest the conclusion should be a bad thing. They said the business | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
space is spurious because it is based on time-saving on a train, | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
they said there is no environmental case. They said the length of time | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
it will take to build the thing is a non-starter, 20 years, there is | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
no commitment beyond the Midlands at this point in time. The | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
conclusion I draw from the report is they shouldn't be supporting it. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
If you have your way we will end up the only major European country of | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
any size without a high-speed network? It is not true, our Inter | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
City 125s are high-speed. Not if you travel in Spain and France? | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
you look at their situation if you go off the high-speed network, you | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
are on to slow train services. In the UK, our Inter City 125s, when | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
you bear in mind the small geographic area we have, they | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
servant purpose of getting us between cities very fast. We are | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
talking �32 billion, that exclude the spur to Heathrow, and having to | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
build a new underground. If you are bringing in 2,000 more people into | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
Euston, the Victorian line can't cope now, led alone those | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
increasing numbers. The costs are a tiny proportion of the reality of | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
building this thing. I did a trip to Birmingham a couple | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
of weeks ago, it took an hour and 20 minutes. People knock British | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
trains, it was a perfect trip, an hour and 20 minutes, it was | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
relaxing, I had Wi-Fi, somebody brought me a cup of coffee, I got | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
some work done. I do it a lot. don't we, instead of spending �32 | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
billion, which you and I know will be �60 billion at the end of the | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
day, just to get to Birmingham. Take a fraction of that money and | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
improve the existing line? I think. Make it an hour instead of an hour | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
and 20 minutes. There is only so much you can do an engineer would | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
tell us, with existing lines, and you can only get it down to a | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
certain speed, or up to a certain speed because of the he can listing | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
line. What I'm saying, for a fraction of the money, you could | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
actually do so much by building something in the same corridor. | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
That is something that they don't seem to have thought about. They | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
haven't, they have rejected it? Quite. Why? Because they think it | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
will cost more in the end, because it is not a corridor to city and a | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
high-speed line. They say costs are tie tight. Nobody flies to | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
Birmingham already, the only real gains are if Manchester and Leeds | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
and up to Scotland. But you don't save anything on pollution in that, | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
every slot that Heathrow gives up for Glasgow and Edinburgh, there | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
are few domestic flights out of Heathrow now, will go to new lines, | :26:16. | :26:26. | |
to Shanghai, and quango dong, and Rio, there is no - Qandong, Rio. | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
Nobody pretends there is an environmental argument now. There | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
is a key point, if you are determined to go high-speed, the | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
environmental impact is far greater than if you did to 160-180mph, | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
which is faster than we already V if you lock at a combination of | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
sorting out pinch points and improving speed on existing trains, | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
and potentially adding another line part of the way, perhaps as far as | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
the Midlands, so you can then free up the existing West Coast Mainline, | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
to go to the northern cities, with a much better service there, it | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
would be a far cheaper thing. The key thing is, if you go with high- | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
speed rail you are not sorting out anything in 2026, we can't wait | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
until then. I broke the story in the Sunday Times about CrossRail in | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
1986, it is now 2011, they are still trying to build it. In your | :27:16. | :27:22. | |
heart of hearts, do you think the high-speed rail network will ever | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
be built? Do you want to phone a friend. We haven't got time? | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
think it will. Do you, what about you? Funnily enough, given where we | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
both come from, I don't think it won't. I'm beginning to think that | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
too, and I always thought it would. I'm more in favour too. | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
Thank you for being with us. There is time to find out the | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
answer to the quiz, the answer was which basic food stuff has the EU | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
announced might have the ingredients listed on the package, | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
is the peanuts, eggs, honey or potatoes. I didn't know about this | :27:55. | :28:02. | |
until I sat down. I opened a packet of peanuts the other day, on the | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
back of t I said on the back of it, it says the ingredients, may | :28:08. | :28:17. | |
contain nuts, on that basis nuts. You're wrong, it is honey. What | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
else is there. They have pollen on their feet, and it may be GM pollen, | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
that is the problem. That is exactly right. | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
sovereign debt crisis and this is what Europe has to worry about. All | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
right, thanks to all our guests, especially to Digby Jones for being | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
our guest of the day. We will be here tomorrow with all the big | :28:39. | :28:42. |