09/01/2012 Daily Politics

Happy New Year from the Daily Politics. Yes, we're back and we're

going for gold in what promises to be a year of Olympic political

coverage. And that's not all, is No, it's a new year and we've

already achieved our makeover. For 2012, on time and on budget, we've

Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the all-new singing and dancing Daily

Politics. The Cabinet's holding its first meeting of the year - but not

in Downing Street. They've sprinted down to the Olympic Park in east

London to mark 2012 as the Year of the Olympics, as if you didn't know.

Actually, they all went on the same train. We'll be looking at what the

year ahead holds for all the main parties and which leaders might hit

the buffers. The Cabinet have been discussing

proposals to hold a referendum on Scottish independence. Expect a war

of words between David Cameron and Alex Salmond.

Timely new year advice from MPs. They're urging us to give up the

booze two days a week. Hic! And Adam has been to the gym with

the mood box. This week's question - is austerity worth it? A table

don't have enough money to spend, and everyone is suffering a? What

about your teammates? There is a division.

Division in the badminton team. Adam gets the stories. More of that

later. All that coming up in the next half

hour. And look what I found in my Christmas stocking. A lovely new

set from Santa. He's a generous soul. All Jo got was a clementine

and some half-eaten chocolate euros. Times are tough.

It couldn't sell them for anything these days.

And with us for the whole programme today, a panel of bright young

things: Conservative MP Sam Gyimah, Labour's Emma Reynolds and Duncan

Hames of the Liberal Democrats. Welcome to the show.

Now first today, let's jump immediately on the new year detox

bandwagon because, not ones to miss a trick, that's exactly what a

group of MPs is doing today. The Science And Technology Committee

have decreed that drinkers should have two alcohol-free days a week

and they say that existing guidelines give the false

impression that daily indulgence is healthy. The chair of the committee

is Andrew Miller. I spoke to him earlier and began by asking him if

the daily guideline is wrong. There is clear, unambiguous

clinical evidence that says having a couple of days off a week,

drinking no alcohol, is better for your body. Give your body a chance

to recover. This is already the guidance in Scotland and all of the

clinical experts we spoke to suggested that is the right way

forward. But it doesn't mean you would then increase the amount due

drink on other days? Absolutely not, this is not a green light for

having a binge on one night of the week and having the other six days

off. What about the way it is measured? Everyone has heard of

units but they don't know what they are. Why not talk about glasses of

wine and pints of beer? That is a serious issue and we look very

carefully at it. A pint of beer 30 years ago, you could have used that

as a sort of useful guide. No longer can you do that, because

beer strengths vary so much, and a factor of three is quite often the

case. Similarly with wind, the size of a glass of wine varies

tremendously -- wine. These are complex issues. We want to try and

bring together the clinical experts being with the health side properly

and bring behavioural experts into the equation to try and find better

ways of communicating what is a very complicated message to the

public. That was Andrew Millar. Duncan

Hames, not very complicated to say don't drink alcohol for two days a

week. Do you think you could manage it? I don't think I could with our

schedule! When I first got to Parliament, when I got the House of

Lords, a friend told me of an event one lunchtime weather seemed to be

quite a lot of alcohol flowing and his warning was that Parliament is

like a Petri dish for alcoholism. That bodes well for the future of

the political system. You all seem extremely dry. There is a question

about information, does it matter what is put out there? Does it

change people's habits? I then there is a problem about talking

about units, because people don't intuitively understand what a unit

consists of. A would you like to see it as a glass of wine or a pint

of beer? The big it is done with a cabinet of an average rent for a

drink -- even. It would give people guidance. I do think that today's

without alcohol, or more, is good guidance -- two days. There are

long-term risks of drinking every day, even if you don't get drunk

every day. It seems there is a bit of catch-up by the Government, or

by MPs, if you like. Scotland already had this in place. Do you

think we need to do a bit more, as there seems to be a problem with

alcohol levels? There is a real problem with binge-drinking and I

think the Government's alcohol strategy is due out in February and

one thing they will be looking at in addition to the guidance from

this group of MPs is actually putting a floor price. 45p has been

the butt forward. Is that the only thing that could work, looking at

pricing? It is difficult to see. When you talk about binge-drinking,

defining it and controlling it is quite hard. The Government is doing

what it can do and what is happening in Scotland works, and if

it works, let's see if we get their belated.

Parliament could set the standard by closing the bars in the Commons

for two days a week. All 27 of them.

Then we would maybe take them seriously.

So it's our first day back and it's also the Cabinet's first get-

together of the year. And the Prime Minister has taken them all on an

outing - to the Olympic Park, no less. They're there to mark 200

days till the start of the Games. There they are, meeting in a big

hall. David Cameron has said the Olympics will provide a "lasting

legacy" for east London. Six venues have had their futures secured, two

- the main stadium and the media centre - will be sorted in the next

few months, before the Games begin. But what does this Olympic year

have in store for the party leaders? Jo's been having a look.

It's going to be a marathon year for all three party leaders, but

have they all got the stamina to see it through?

David Cameron's first major hurdle is the economy. The eurozone is

still on shaky ground and forecasts for the UK economy remain bleak.

He'll be hoping the markets will continue to back his austerity

measures. The Prime Minister also needs to

keep his rebellious backbenchers in order. After last year's hurdle -

when they defied him over Europe - he needs to find ways to keep them

happy. The Deputy Prime Minister Nick

Clegg also has some Olympic challenges. He's got to flex his

muscles and prove he's got the stamina to continue with the

coalition. He has a heavy load, with dismal

poll ratings, and needs to show the party faithful that the Lib Dems

have a strong voice and are getting their policies implemented in the

coalition. And Ed Miliband. Well, after a weak

start to the year, he'll be wanting to throw off those doubting his

leadership credentials. He also needs to demonstrate that

the Labour party have a clear message and policies.

Let's just see how a bright Our panel of writing things are. Ed

Miliband has been leader of your party for 16 months, the coalition

is divided, the austerity package gets worse and worse and yet 66% of

voters think he is doing a bad job. Why? It is important to remember

the context of where we are. We had our second worst election defeat

since World War One. We only got 20% of the vote in 20th May 10. In

those 18 months, we have recovered by 11 points. -- May 2010.Nip

tuck, sometimes you while behind, sometimes you are a point ahead.

Mostly, we are ahead. There have been occasions where we are

slightly behind. The one two point ahead in yesterday Boz back Paul.

And each one has... Were hoping to do the same been made. Why are 66%

of voters, at a time with it is not going the coalition's way and

living standards are being squeezed and the austerity package for many

people isn't working, 66% think your guy is doing a bad job.

think that will begin to change. In April, some of the most unfair cuts

that the Government are bringing in are going to hit home. There is

going to be a cut to working tax credits, a cut to child tax credit

as well and working families across the country with children are going

to be hit four times harder than families without children. What

happens if all of that was to happen, and the Reynolds, and he

still remained with a 66% disapproval rate -- and a

Reynolds.? I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals. I think

that will begin to change because people are starting to say that the

cuts that this government are bringing you are hitting the

poorest hardest. You are been very loyal this morning and I understand

you have the new Tom Baldwin briefing document and these are all

the points in it, and that is your job, but Alan Johnson doesn't agree

with you. Alistair Darling doesn't agree. Morris Glassman, the great

guru, doesn't agree with you. Nobody in Wolverhampton has heard

of him. He is not important? What about Mr Johnson and Alistair

Darling it? In the last week, there has been a lot of Westminster

tittle-tattle and what is more important is what is happening to

families up-and-down the country and life is about to get much

harder for them. So Labour knees like to get harder before you can

make things better? -- need life. Since then a year, both of the

other party leaders, Nick Clegg and David Cameron, have taken on the

policy agenda that Ed Miliband are set out in September. He talked

about creating responsible capitalism, responsibility at the

top and bottom of society. This is the kind of language that the

premise that Deputy Prime Minister are adopting. Ed Miliband has set

out the stall, so he is ahead of the game. Vitalija Baliutaviciene,

the Prime Minister is at war with Brussels -- Sam Jonah. He is at war

with his coalition partners, and he will be at war with the

backbenchers over the 50p tax, and if he doesn't go further over

Europe. Is it sensible to be fighting on all fronts? He is

batting for Britain. In terms of Brussels, it was right for the

Prime Minister to exercise the veto, to show the signal that Britain is

open for business and we will protect the city. On Scotland, the

SNP fought an election campaign for a referendum and I think it is

their right if they want a referendum to have one, in the same

way that the UK government should set out its stall, given it is a

matter that affects the UK. can't the Scottish government,

which unlike your party actually has a lot of votes in Scotland,

indeed a majority, why can't it determine whether referendum should

be? What has it got to do with you? Because Scottish independence is a

matter that affects all of the UK, so the Westminster Parliament

should decide in terms of the timing and in terms of what the

question is. When were you last in Scotland? I was actually in

Scotland for Duncan's wedding, who is married to a Scottish MP. That

was last year. So you haven't been there since last May. What is the

aim of the Lib Dems in 2012? continue making a difference in

government, starting with taking the poorest paid out of tax, which

is what we have managed to do for a million people so far. You expect

that process to continue be the next budget? I certainly do.

are expecting a George Osborne to take another big chunk... To raise

this darting point of income tax again in the March budget -- the

starting point. We have many just begun. The coalition agreement

commits us to reaching �10,000 by the end of this Parliament as the

personal allowance. That will do an enormous amount of good for people

on low income. What else? people premium. That is set to

double this year. I have already visited schools in my constituency

and seen the difference that is making, to schools that are taking

children from some of the most disadvantaged households. That is

important... That has been done, as I understand it? In it is being

implemented. It needs to grow over the course of this Parliament. I

would like to see us make progress on Lords reform, bring some of this

austerity to the boardroom, which we have been talking about. I would

take issue with air about this being Ed Miliband's agenda. Vince

Cable has been talking about this for some time, his department

issued a consultation and he will be responding on behalf of the

Government. It is Vince Cable for the Liberal Democrats that is

making the running. Are you going to get an employee on remuneration

committees? It is clear that stake holder activism, which is what the

Government is suggesting, isn't going to be enough to close the gap

between those who are very, very highly paid and those who are paid

low incomes. It is funny you don't think it is enough. For 13 years,

Gordon Brown thought it was enough, and we will achieve more than

Labour did on this issue have been 13 years of government. Why is the

gum -- isn't the Government going Ed Miliband was talking about tax

and predator companies and producer companies, and that was his

solution to the stake holder activism issue and what we are

talking about is aligning the interest of shareholders with the

interests of managers. That is a more effective way of dealing with

the problem. His Ed Miliband relaunching himself tomorrow with

his big interview on the Today programme? We are back to business

and back in Parliament. Easy relaunch in? Not necessarily. -- es

That is what politicians normally do, go on programmes, why would

that be different in this year? thing the Cabinet has been

discussing his proposals to give the Scottish government the legal

power to hold a binding referendum on Scottish independence. I am

joined by Nicola Sturgeon from the SNP. We have just been talking

about it, and it is clear from you and Alex Salmond that you want to

hold the referendum in the second half of the parliamentary term,

which is what she will do. But the issue we have been discussing, why

shouldn't the Westminster parliament also have a say in the

question of Scottish independence? The break-up of the UK is not just

an issue for Scotland? You could have said the same thing when the

Scottish parliament was set up because that change that nature of

the relationship between Scotland and the UK, but there was no

question that the people who decided whether we had a parliament

was the Scottish people. The same is true of independence. That

should be decided by the Scottish people and I suspect most people

across the UK would think that is a perfectly reasonable position and

that is they right position. don't think anyone is denying the

Scottish people should have their say, but it does take too, if you

like, to separate. Are you saying that MPs and people here should be

deprived of that here? I am sure we will continue to have a close,

constructive relationship with the other parts of the UK when Scotland

is an independent country. Independence will mean a new,

modern relationship of equals between the countries of the

islands, but whether Scotland becomes independent is a matter for

the Scottish people. And when the referendum takes place is a matter

for the Scottish government. We stood for an election last May and

were elected with a majority, and we have an overwhelming mandate for

the notion that the referendum should be in the second half of

this term. So no idea of negotiation with David Cameron or

the government at all? That has been ruled out? The Scottish

government discuss as a whole range of matters constructively and the

UK is right for us to want to do that, but when we have a referendum

to determine the future it is determined correctly that it should

be by the Scottish people. Far more importantly than that, the people

of Scotland voted for this. This is a question of fairly basic

democratic principle. The timing of the referendum is for the Scottish

government and the outcome is for the Scottish people. Nicola

Sturgeon, thank you. Well, Sam, that was pretty clear. It will be

ignored, and they will have the referendum will be had whatever the

government says. We are going to have difficult discussions over the

next few months. And we are going to get legal advice and state the

position quite clearly so we have to be clear and decisive and legal.

The UK government's position at the moment is that to achieve all three,

Westminster has to decide on the timing and wording of the

referendum, and I think that is right. When you say legal advice,

what is clear is constitutionally it is not binding unless

Westminster has a final say or the government hands the powers over?

But there is nothing to stop the Scottish government having a

referendum and whatever the outcome is, it would be politically

difficult for David Cameron to say that that is not binding or they do

not support the outcome of the election, referendum, Surrey.

will be difficult for Alex Salmond to want a referendum and then say

that having a referendum sooner rather than later is something that

he does not want. I think that would be difficult for him

politically as well. Except he stated clearly would be in the

second half, for whatever reason. Do you support that idea? Should

the government give those legally binding powers over to Scotland

with conditions attached or not? think it is important a referendum

is fair and the question is there. We had a net referendum last year

and we were on the losing side and we accepted the result. The

question was said by eat the electoral commission. People need

to have confidence in the democratic practices that on going,

so they resurrect them -- a referendum being judged by those

taking part in the mandate is important for public confidence.

The that should there be this interference from the British

government -- but should there be? They should be an independent

organisation playing a role in the organisation of the referendum.

Other than that you have a situation where one side of the

argument is pulling the strings and Alex would not accept that if it

was Westminster and I think the Scottish people deserve to know

that their referendum which makes a big difference to their future were

it is the position of Ed Miliband? The referendum should take place as

soon as possible and that the economic uncertainty that the delay

is causing is not good for Scotland and the rest of the UK. So so

Labour totally supports the position of Ed Miliband West --? So

what you say is that it is Labour's loss of support in Scotland that

has given the SNP such a boost in confidence but they feel like

controlling it. If they feel so confident, why not have it the she?

During the campaign they want to be later because it was pure

opportunities and -- opportunism. They want to have time to convince

people because the polling at the moment shows they would not win it

if it took place. They do show that although there has been a slight

improvement in favour. But we have For many of us it looks like being

the same will story when it comes to it the economy this year. The

crisis in the macro Eurozone is rumbling on, and Mr Merkel and --

Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy will be meeting every 10 days.

Government cuts are biting as the standard of living goes down and we

feel poorer at the end of the day. His austerity worth it? We sent

Adam Fleming to find out. One of the grimmest things about new year

is coming back to work, but we are brightening things of the commuters

on this windy morning with a Daily Politics mood box. We are asking

about the austerity drive. Is it worth it or not worth it? We are in

no better state than we were. July to vote in the poll? -- would

you like to vote? Not much goodwill around here. A lot of money is

wasted on completely idiotic nonsense. They put up very odd

posters where I live telling people that lesbians ought to be able to

adopt people's children. What a waste of money. It doesn't sound

very expensive. But they could cut it, it would be a start. We can't

live beyond our means as we have been doing. After all that, voters

seem pretty divided. But what about that other new year tradition,

working off the turkey at the gym? Let's find out what people think at

the YMCA. A I think it is worth it, but there are things they don't

need to be pushed as much. I think one of these is too big. I don't

think it will go in a hole. Would you like to come and vote in our

survey? No thanks. One do you say I think it is impacting on the

spending and it will choke off the economy so people don't have enough

money to spend and everyone else suffers. What about your team mate?

I think it is worth it. It has got to be done. We have to save the

money and the debt has to be paid back. Well, the number who think it

is not worth it is definitely going up. So there is just enough time

for our last new year tradition, hitting the sales. Targeting the

middle man, who is already getting taxed and working hard, they are

the one they are squeezing. private sector pays to everything

in this country. There is far too much public sector. We need to see

the beginning of a new movement where people are talking about

things and challenging the way things are done. You can keep one

as a present. Thank you. After all that, the people think austerity is

not worth the largest in the lead. But through the whole process

And off he goes into the sunset. Sam, 2011 was the era of austerity,

is 2012 as well? Austerity and growth. We have to stick to the

plan. We have announced austerity measures in everything from the

financial markets is telling us we have to stick to it. So this will

be our second year? Are we heading for a third? For the Chancellor

said before the Autumn Statement that we would be going beyond 2015

in terms of eliminating the structural deficit and that is how

long it will take to clear up the mess we inherited. But, it is not

just about clearing up the mess, it is about ensuring we have economic

growth. The economy is not going to grow by much this year though, is

it? Maybe 1%. It is not forecast by the offer to budget responsibility

to grow by that much. -- office of budget responsibility. He wanted to

grow to mop of the increase in the labour force at least. So at that

level of growth, unemployment will rise. It is a tough time. I looked

at what was happening in the Eurozone and the markets have gone

down today because everyone is looking to what's Angela Merkel and

Nicolas Sarkozy will come up with. We have had this problem for long

time and we are giving up 40 % of back exports, and it is going to be

a challenging time to stimulate growth while we have the global

economic slowdown. We have now heard from a Conservative MP that

we are heading for three years of austerity. We have had one, we have

started a second, and another three are looming. Yet, on the economy,

Labour is not trusted to run it. Even George Osborne has a 16 point

lead over Labour interest on financial matters. What has gone

wrong? Let me take issue with something sound just said. The

government like to blame us for the first 18 months and now they are

trying to blame the Eurozone. Growth has been flat lining for the

last year. It is not to do with the Eurozone. It is to do with the fact

that the government has been cutting too deep and too fast and

that without growth our borrowing will go well. If that was true, why

do all of the surveys showed that the Conservatives and the coalition

are more trusted than Labour to run the economy? We had a very bad

election result. We do have to regain economic credibility. That

is something that the whole Shadow Cabinet and Shadow frontbench

recognise. As I said before, I think that is something that will

start to change during the year. Aren't you getting worried that

your whole gamble in joining a coalition was there would be a

couple of years of pain and then it was off to the sunny uplands. It

doesn't look like you're going to get many sunny are plans this side

of the election. Maybe not, but I don't think it was a gamble. It was

about trying to clear up the economic mess the country was in.

We have seen that compounded by European sovereign debt crisis, but

our country can now borrow more cheaply than any other in Europe

because of the measures this government has taken to make sure

that our public finances are brought back under control. It will

be a difficult time ahead for we are taking the long-term decisions.

I was very pleased to see the end of last year that we were winning

the argument on the importance of capital investment in the

infrastructure and making sure... The coalition or the Lib Dems?

colleagues. The argument was won. I am glad that the coalition was

united behind the position of the Autumn Statement, because we need

to do that and work on youth unemployment. We are going to leave

it there. Plenty more to come though. Thanks to all our guests.

Joe will be back flying solo tomorrow at 12:00pm tomorrow.