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Good morning, folks, this is Daily Politics. Culture secretary Jeremy | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
Hunt's special adviser Adam Smith, just as we were coming on air, has | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
resigned. There was a call for the Culture Secretary himself to resign | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
over contacts with the Murdoch. Jeremy Hunt is making a Commons | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
statement at 12:30pm, and we will bring it to you live after PMQs. | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
Yesterday it was the son and today it is the media mogul himself. He | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
is under oath at the Royal Courts of Justice and we will bring you | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
the latest from the Leveson Inquiry. We are in recession, it is the | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
official. The economy shrank by 0.2% in the first three months of | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
this year, the second consecutive quarter in which the economy has | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
contracted. The news could hardly be worse for | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
the Prime Minister as he faces Ed Miliband in what could be the final | :01:33. | :01:42. | |
PMQs of this parliamentary session. Joining us for the next 90 minutes | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
of action packed public service broadcasting at its finest, can I | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
say more? Double-dip Britain, here we are. We have got the | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
universities minister of David Willetts and the shadow environment | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
secretary Mary Creagh go. Welcome to you both on this very busy news | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
day. In a moment we will bring you more on the resignation of Jeremy | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
Hunt's special adviser at the latest on the Rupert Murdoch | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
evidence at the Leveson Inquiry, but first to the Office of National | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
Statistics. The economy shrank by 0.2% in the first three months of | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
this year. That is the second consecutive quarter in which the | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
economy contracted, the technical definition of a recession. It is | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
just the first estimate of the first quarter from the LMS, but the | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
City thought we would avoid the double-dip. -- from the Office of | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
National Statistics. It is a big blow for the Chancellor. It is very | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
disappointing news and it is a tough economic situation when you | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
are recovering from these enormous debts that the Government build up | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
in the good years. That is not made easier by the fact that much of | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
Europe is in recession or heading into recession. And we have got to | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
go on dealing with those debts, making our businesses more | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
competitive so they can create jobs, helping young people get into work, | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
and making sure we do not deliberately add to borrowing, do | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
not deliberately spend more and make the difficult situation worse. | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
I am joined now by the chief UK economist at Capital Economics, | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
Vicky Redwood. We said that there was an expectation that there might | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
be a slight inching up of growth and it has gone the other way. Why | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
do you think that is? Construction output was a key factor pulling | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
down growth, but in fact that was widely expected. The big | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
disappointment was that services output was weaker than expected. | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Even though consumers were spending on the High Street, they were | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
cutting back on things like eating out. Perhaps there was more | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
widespread weavers in the economy than was generally anticipated. -- | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
widespread weakness. The Chancellor was blaming the eurozone. What | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
impact will this have on the deficit-reduction plans? So far the | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
deficit-reduction plans have been going broadly to plan. Borrowing | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
has been coming down as the Chancellor expected but I think | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
things will get much harder now. The plans to bring down borrowing | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
depend very crucially on a strong pick-up in economic growth over the | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
next year. If that is not mad, then borrowing will be harder to bring | :04:10. | :04:18. | |
down, if it is not brought down at all. -- if that is not met. Will | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
there be a change of course for the Government? The Chancellor faces a | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
tricky dilemma. Spending more money to boost the economy and risking an | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
adverse reaction or sticking to austerity plans and wrapping them | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
up further if borrowing does not come down as he expects? I think he | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
will want to remain wedded to the fiscal plans at the moment. We | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
might see even more spending cuts in the future. This is only a | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
preliminary estimate. Do you predict that it could change? More | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
positive the further on we go perhaps? I think it could be | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
revised up a bit, this estimate. It might be that down the road the UK | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
did not fall back into recession at all. But I think the underlying | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
picture will still look very weak and it is very disappointing that | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
the economy is even stagnating at this stage, and it is certainly | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
doing worse than in other developed economies. I think even revisions | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
further ahead will not change the bleak picture. Thank you. We all | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
thought that Rupert Murdoch's testimony was going to dominate the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
news today but the fact that we are in recession is bigger news where | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
everybody else and matters much more to people around the country. | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
What is it like to preside over this double-dip, the worst since | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
the 1970s? We knew when we came into office that we would face a | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
big challenge, inheriting record levels of borrowing. And also a | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
deep financial crisis in the banking system. He did not tell us | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
you would take us back into recession. We did not do that | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
deliberately. You have done. have done everything to get the | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
economy going and sort it out. In my area of speciality, science, | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
when I was with the Prime Minister in Asia, he was taking people into | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
British businesses. The eurozone is dragging us down, but exports | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
outside the eurozone are growing well. We should have confidence in | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
the ability of our economy to perform, even when we have got a | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
terrible problems in the eurozone holding us back. How can we have | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
confidence in your macro-economic policy once the size of the British | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
economy is still 4% smaller than it was in 2007? In 2012, five years on, | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
this economy is 4% smaller, it under your Government. That is not | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
true of the American economy or the German economy. It is the British | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
economy. The American economy had a far smaller financial sector. | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
Britain had become an unbalanced economy, with not just excessive | :06:53. | :07:03. | |
:07:03. | :07:06. | ||
levels of Government borrowing. You will see that the banking sector | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
has shrunk. It is the exporting industries that we are backing, | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
outside the troubled eurozone. The Government is doing the right thing | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
to tackle the problems in private and Government debt, that we | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
inherited. Minister, you are presiding over a shrinking economy. | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
It is not flat lining. It is not anaemic growth. This country is | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
shrinking under your policy. Today, this morning, your economic | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
credibility lies in shreds. Look behind those totals at what is | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
growing and what is shrinking. Yes, there is a problem of exporting to | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
the eurozone because of the problems in the eurozone at exports | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
outside the eurozone are growing. Yes, the banking sector is | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
shrinking, and that is the part of the process of focusing on what | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
matters, with manufacturing growing. We are backing industries that will | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
bring as income in the future. When I look at the sectors that we are | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
focusing on backing, we have got a success in exporting outside the | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
eurozone. When you have got the local market in Europe suffering | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
and when you have inherited an economy with a far bigger banking | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
sector than the USA, you have a unique set of challenges. If you | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
knew all that, it would have been nice if you had told us at the time | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
but he did not. Is it Labour's policy now in result of these | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
figures, that the deficit reduction programme that the Government has | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
introduced, not all that different to Alistair Darling's now, should | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
that be torn up and should you start to borrow more? We have | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
always said that the Chancellor should change tack and we believe | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
the figures today emphasise that even more. We set out our | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
alternative plan for jobs and growth. We talked about a tax on | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
bank are bonuses to create 25,000 affordable houses. -- bankers's | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
bonuses. We looked at infrastructure spending which would | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
not have involved more spending but as bringing it forward. Should | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
there now be a bigger fiscal stimulus? The Government should | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
change track to secured jobs and growth in the economy. When we left | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
office, unemployment was falling and growth was running at 2% a year. | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
Growth needs to be at 2% a year before unemployment will start | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
coming down. Let me get this clear. The British Government should now | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
go into the bond markets and borrow more to increase the fiscal | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
stimulus? We are saying the Government should bring forward | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
infrastructure spending... You have said that already. I will repeat my | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
question. It is a specific question and I think it deserves a specific | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
answer, so we can understand your economic policy. Because of what | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
has happened and because of your previous critique, which many | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
people think you have been vindicated as the result of these | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
figures, so should the British Government in your view go into the | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
bond markets and now borrow more to increase the fiscal stimulus? | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
we are saying is that the Budget has failed to deliver. You are not | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
going to answer my question, are you? Instead of giving a | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
corporation tax cut to the shrinking financial services sector, | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
we should spend within the envelope but... I don't know what spent | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
within the envelope means. She is not answering my question. With | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
these figures today, you deficit- reduction plan is in danger of | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
being shot to hell. We are committed to our plan. You maybe. | :10:31. | :10:38. | |
We are committed to it because it enables us to key interest rates | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
down. If interest rates went up, then mortgage prices would go up. | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
This is a tough fiscal policy that is delivering. Excuse me, I want to | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
ask this question. Your fiscal deficit reduction plan is not | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
predicated on a return to recession. And it follows that if we return to | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
recession, as we have, then the deficit will get bigger. If you | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
want to stick to your deficit reduction targets, you will have to | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
cut more tax more. Correct? We have got a commitment on public spending. | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
We have also got a clear commitment to reducing the structural deficit | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
on... Is it your plane today that even though we are now back in | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
recession, that you can hit your deficit reduction targets without | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
either additional tax or additional cuts? It is very hard to make these | :11:32. | :11:40. | |
judgments on the basis of one- quarter's figures. It is two | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
quarters. The Office for Budget Responsibility has set out figures | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
for public borrowing, spending and growth, and it would be wrong two | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
weeks later to change that Government. -- to change that | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
judgment. We are committed to our plan. The plan assumed growth and | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
we have not got any growth, minister. Do they still do O-level | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
economics? Not in Britain. O-level economics tells you that when the | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
economy slows down, you lose tax revenue, welfare spending goes up. | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
You will have to borrow more. have to allow for those effects and | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
those are allowed for an Office for Budget Responsibility's reports. | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
Behind that is the structural deficit, the underlying position of | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
these public finances. That is absolutely the commitment of the | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
Government. All right. We should move on. Yesterday was James | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
Murdoch, today his father, Rupert Murdoch. The media mogul himself is | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
that the Royal Courts of Justice giving evidence before the Leveson | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
Inquiry into the culture, the practice and the ethics of the | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
press. It has had a pretty slow start this morning but we will | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
bring you some in a minute. Yesterday the inquiry looked at the | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
cash of emails releasing the extent of contact between News Corp | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
lobbyists and Government over the proposed take-over of BSkyB. Of | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
course it never happened. Labour have called for the resignation of | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
the culture secretary, Jeremy Hunt. More revelations are expected today | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
when we eventually get round to that. Here is Jo to say what has | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
happened so far. Yesterday was a day of dramatic | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
revelations at the Royal Courts of Justice, because the Leveson | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
Inquiry heard of the close contact between News Corporation and senior | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
politicians during the company's failed bid to take over broadcaster | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
BSkyB. A cache of emails exposed discussions between Murdoch | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
lobbyist Fred Michel and the office of the culture secretary, Jeremy | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
Hunt. They appeared to reveal details of a Commons statement | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
before the minister had delivered it. This has been described by Fred | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
Michel as absolutely illegal. Others suggested that Jeremy Hunt | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
was predisposed to backing the BSkyB deal, quoting him saying that | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
they would get there in the end. Jeremy Hunt insists that he has | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
acted with propriety at all times. The BSkyB deal was signed off by | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
top officials. Now it is the turn of Rupert Murdoch to appear before | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
Lord Leveson, where he is being asked to talk about his | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
relationships with politicians for decades. They are probing for | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
evidence that he traded support from his newspapers for the BSkyB | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
bid. This could make uncomfortable listening for any of the recent | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
inhabitants of Number 10. Let's get the flavour of what has been | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
happening so far. Why do you say there is a need for this inquiry, | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
Mr Murdoch? Well, I think the need is fairly obvious. There have been | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
some abuses shown. I could say there are many other abuses, but we | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
can go into that in time. And, you know, the state of the media in | :15:02. | :15:10. | |
this country is of absolutely vital interest to all its citizens. | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
Frankly, I welcome the opportunity because I want to put certain myths | :15:15. | :15:24. | |
You use the term abuses, is it your perception or understanding that | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
abuses go further than the issue of phone hacking or are they limited | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
to the issue of phone hacking? they go further. Some recent tweets | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
of yours betray a hostile approach to right-wingers and toffs. Who | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
were you referring to? Don't take my tweets too seriously. LAUGHTER. | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
I think I was really saying that the extremists on both sides were | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
piling in on me. I never gave instructions to the editor of the | :16:00. | :16:07. | |
Times or the Sunday Times. I didn't say what are you doing, what are | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
you saying? Sometimes when I was available on a Saturday I would | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
call and say what's the news today, idle curiosity perhaps. Other times | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
I would ring on a Tuesday, in New York, say that was a dam fine paper | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
you had this week. I probably wouldn't have read the editorial. | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
Colourful answers there from Rupert Murdoch. We can speak to Adam | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
Fleming who has been watching developments. What about | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
information relating to relationships between Rupert | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
Murdoch and the corporation and politicians over decades? Watching | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
some of that evidence from Rupert Murdoch was like watching rolling | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
news from 1981, if it existed, they were going back to historic things. | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
Things like lunches at Chequers, Rupert Murdoch had with Margaret | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
Thatcher. They were talking about a dinner on polling day for the | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
election in 87 which might seem strange to people watching but what | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
the QC for the inquiry is trying to do is establish a pattern of | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
influence over politicians by Rupert Murdoch that goes back | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
several decades. Of course, Rupert Murdoch has denied any of that. He | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
said he wasn't trying to influence Margaret Thatcher to smooth his | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
passage of trying to buy the times and Sunday Times in 81. Robert Jay | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
saying you wouldn't do that blatantly, you would try it more | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
subtlely. The other line of questioning has been about how much | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
influence Rupert Murdoch had over his editors of his titles. Rupert | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
Murdoch says hardly any, I am a guy who has strong opinions and I find | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
it hard to bite my tongue but never told editor what is decisions to | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
make. We might have a debate on that later. Let's bring it up to | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
date with the resignation of the special advisor of Jeremy Hunt, | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
what more do we know about the statement? While Leveson is looking | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
at the 1980s, we are up to date with events here. Yesterday we got | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
all the e-mails released between James Murdoch's public affairs man | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
and Jeremy Hunt's office. Adam Smith has resigned in the last 15 | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
minutes, we are had a a statement from the department on his behalf. | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
He says while he was authorised to be the point man with News | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
International during that merger talks about BSkyB, he said the | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
content and extent of his contacts were done without the authorisation | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
of the Secretary of State, Jeremy Hunt. He says that he doesn't | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
recognise everything that Fred Michel said in his e-mails, | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
nevertheless it's given the perception that the department was | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
too close to News International, that's why he has decided to resign. | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
That's been welcomed by Downing Street. The Prime Minister's | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
official spokesman saying it's the right decision but Downing Street | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
not commenting on the content of the e-mails. Thank you. | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
Adam Smith, the special advisor to Jeremy Hunt, now knows what the | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
invisible hand really means. University Minister David Willets | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
and shadow Environment Secretary Mary Creagh are here. | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
There was a lot of communication, including texts between Mr Smith | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
and the News Corp. Mr Smith on resignation says I appreciate my | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
activities at times went too far and I have taken together created | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
the perception that News Corp had too close a relationship with the | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
department, contrary to the clear requirements set out by Jeremy Hunt. | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
It's right, therefore, for me to step down. Are you still calling | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
for Jeremy Hunt's resignation? are and this is an attempt by the | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
Culture Secretary to put distance between himself and his special | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
advisor. I went and looked through these e-mails. We have all done | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
that. There's one from the 15th of 11th, just as Jeremy was about to | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
take over the review of the decision, the BSkyB takeover, it's | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
very clear, it says: My advice advice don't meet Jeremy today, it | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
could be counterproductive. I will liaise with the team. We don't know | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
if that call took place. It could be a game-changer, understand that, | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
but we don't know if that call took place. It's secondhand reporting. | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
It's the chief lobbyist who had an incentive to big himself up in the | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
eyes of James Murdoch, that he was right at the centre of what was | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
going on. But we heard from Adam Smith, now resigned, he is implying | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
that he bigged himself up in this process and he thinks - he says: I | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
firmly believe the process was conducted scrupulously, fairly. | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
That's what he said. Why are you still call fog for Mr Hunt's -- | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
calling for Mr Hunt's resignation? We have evidence in the e-mails | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
that the Culture Secretary needs to build political cover on the | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
process. Who is saying that? wants ammo against the Ofcom report. | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
He is saying that. It's the News Corporation lobbyist saying that | :21:14. | :21:22. | |
sarplt of being briefed by Adam Smith - as a result. A specialist | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
advisor in a Minister's office. The idea that a special advisor would | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
have these type of back channels without the knowledge of their | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
culture secretary is unthinkable. He may have had knowledge that he | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
was speaking, but what he is saying is that the Minister didn't have | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
knowledge of what I was saying. I created the perception that I had | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
too close a relationship. That's what he is saying. He is saying | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
it's not Mr Hunt's fault, it was my fault. I made too much of it. I | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
implied too much. We have no evidence whether that's true or not, | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
but you have no evidence that's not true and yet you are still calling | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
for Mr Hunt to resign. Absolutely right and he will see what he has | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
to say at 12.30. David Willets, it's quite clear from everything we | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
know Jeremy Hunt was a self-styled cheerleader for Rupert Murdoch, | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
it's on his website. It's pretty clear from what we know he wanted | :22:21. | :22:29. | |
this to go ahead. It really is incredible that you put it all on | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
the head of an unknown special advisor. What's clear is that at | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
every stage Jeremy acted on independent advice and nobody's | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
been able to provide evidence that he took a decision that was in | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
conflict with independent outside advice. Second, which gets to the | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
heart of the reason why we set up the inquiry and indeed which the | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Labour Party welcomed, and that is it's for the judge to take an | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
overall assessment when he has heard everyone's account of what | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
happened as to what he then thinks we should conclude and he himself, | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
as I think rightly, warned today that you shouldn't take one set of | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
e-mails - I think he says you can take one set of documents out of | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
context and they can bear different interpretations. We have to let the | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
judge in this inquiry get to the bottom. I understand that, judges | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
don't have a monopoly of opinion or even judgment in this country. We | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
are all allowed a say and we are all allowed to make a judgment. If | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
you take the e-mails Mary has got there, and there are more than that, | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
you take them in the aggregate, and they do show an unhealthy | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
relationship between the company that wants to do the biggest | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
takeover in British media history and the Ministerial office of the | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
Minister responsible for determining that takeover. It | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
doesn't look good. Andrew, there are indeed a whole host of opinions | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
floating around today. The judgment that I will respect is the judgment | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
that's finally reached by the the judge after he has heard everyone's | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
account, including Jeremy's and Jeremy is an honourable man. I | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
believe what Jeremy says. As a minimum, Jeremy has the right to | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
explain what he did and Jeremy has made it clear throughout he acted | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
on independent objective advice. understand that and we will hear | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
this at 12.30 what he has to say. Have you met Adam Smith? I don't | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
recall. Possibly I have. It's not a trick question. I have no direct | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
recollection, I probably have at some point. I tended to think of | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
him as a great 18th century political economist, as you said. | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
From the University of Glasgow. My point is, I spoke to political | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
correspondents this this morning, most of them hadn't heard of him. | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
This is not a special advisor known for going off the reservation, he | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
was a special advisor who kept it low key, did little briefing, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
didn't say things that he couldn't - didn't big himself up as how | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
important he was. I think given his previous behaviour until these e- | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
mails came out, there's a kind of credibility test that isn't quite | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
passed that suddenly he goes completely off the reservation on | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
this. Some people I suggest to you will be suspicious that he has been | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
made the fall guy. Andrew, these are your ingenious speculations | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
about the character of someone that you have never met. I think that | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
what we should do is let the process agreed go its course. We | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
have to allow, as as Lord Leveson has said, we are to accept these e- | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
mails can be interpreted in different ways. All I can say is so | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
far the one thing we know, nobody's been able to show any decision he | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
took in conflict with the advice. What about the Ministerial code? It | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
states the responsibility for the management and conduct of special | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
advisers, including discipline rests with the Minister who made | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
the appointment. You stand by that? Absolutely and Jeremy does, too. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
It's clear from the statement that's been released that the | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
special advisor was not... Sorry, we are going to crash PMQs, I | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
wouldn't as a Labour MP wouldn't want me to do that today. Of all | :26:14. | :26:24. | |
:26:24. | :26:25. | ||
days! Our weekly guess the year competition might be excluding some | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
viewers with its complexity. We are concerned about one particular | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
viewer, Mrs T May of Westminster. We don't want to exclude anybody | :26:33. | :26:43. | |
:26:43. | :26:48. | ||
here. So Mrs May, here is your own Can I get back to you. Mrs May, to | :26:48. | :26:57. | |
tenner Guess the -- to enter Guess the Day: Let's see if you can | :26:57. | :27:07. | |
:27:07. | :27:20. | ||
Special masks are the latest # With love that's true | :27:21. | :27:30. | |
:27:31. | :27:31. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 42 seconds | :27:31. | :28:13. | |
From Sandringham to Windsor, the We love the music. To be in with a | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
chance of winning a Daily Politics mug send your answer to our special | :28:16. | :28:22. | |
quiz e-mail address. You can see the full terms and | :28:22. | :28:29. | |
conditions on our website. Coming up to midday, a couple of | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
minutes to go. Let's look at Big Ben. | :28:32. | :28:40. | |
Soon to be Queen Elizabeth Tower, we are told, we will see about that. | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
The tkroulgt is going -- drought is going well! Prime Minister's | :28:44. | :28:54. | |
:28:54. | :28:59. | ||
questions on the way and Nick Robinson is here. A veritable | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
cornupio of things. Hunt and Murdoch? I would think so. The Adam | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
Smith resignation. There are more resignations on a Wednesday than | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
any other day of the week, why? They're to save the Prime | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
Minister's skin. Midday on a Wednesday is a day people go. | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
Usually Ministers go to protect the Prime Minister's skin. The advisor | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
has gone to protect the Minister, to protect the Prime Minister's | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
skin. The question is simply is it enough? We know the Ministerial | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
code says the Minister is responsible for his advisor. Jeremy | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
Hunt, as late as yesterday, was telling colleagues his advisor had | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
done nothing wrong, that the contact between the advisor and the | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
Murdoch empire was approved by the permanent Secretary. What has | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
obviously gone wrong is the content, rather than the contact. What | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
Jeremy Hunt is going to face in half an hour's time and the Prime | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
Minister might now, is the question of is he really saying he didn't | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
know anything about the content of what his advisor was saying to the | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Murdoch empire? At no stage his individualser say -- his advisor | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
say what shall I say? Have you come across Adam Smith? No. He was low | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
key. There are advisers who are spin doctors and he was policy. | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
understand that, but the point I was trying to make to the Minister | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
is that Adam Smith was not well known as some special advisers are | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
around Westminster for being very gobby when it comes to briefing or | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
bigging himself up. People I speak to in the BBC and the BBC of course | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
has to have have its own contacts, say Adam Smith is not the sort of | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
guy who talks without talking on behalf of his his Secretary of | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
State. He is not someone who just goes around - doesn't mean that his | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
choice of phrase is approved by the Secretary of State, e-mails are | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
read by the Secretary of State, but the decision of a constant traffic | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
of reassurance and information, it is stretching credibility to say | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
the Secretary of State knew nothing. And you put your finger on | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
something that's dawned on me, because you said it, that's why we | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
have you on the programme, you are brighter than me! Reassuring. | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
are other reasons. Last night the Secretary of State said that his | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
special advisor had done nothing wrong. 12 hours later he says | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
actually I did do a lot wrong and I have had to resign. That doesn't | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
pass the smell test. possibilities. Three possibilities, | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
one they woke up and thought we were wrong. Secondly the civil | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
service pulled the plug that the Secretary said this is intolerable | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
or the Prime Minister's pulled the plug. Let's go straight to the | :31:26. | :31:34. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am sure the whole House will want to join | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
me in paying tribute to Sapper Connor Ray, who died on 18th April | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
from wins that he sustained in Afghanistan. He was described by | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
ordinary servicemen as a superb soldier. His courage will never be | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
forgotten and we send our condolences to his family and is | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
loved ones. This morning I had meetings with ministerial | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I will | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
have further such meetings later today. | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
I would like to associate myself with the Prime Minister's tribute | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
to Sapper Connor Ray, and in doing so ask my right honourable friend | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
if he will confirm that although British servicemen are due to leave | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
Afghanistan in 2014, the actual pace of withdrawal will be | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
determined first and foremost by then need to minimise the risk to | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
members of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan at that time? | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
honourable friend makes an important point. I can confirm that | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
by the end of 2014, we won't have anything like the numbers we have | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
now and we will not be in a combat role. Post 2014 we do believe in | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
having a training role with the Afghan army, particularly the | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
officer training role that Hamid Karzai has personally asked for us | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
to undertake. The speed of the reductions between now and the end | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
of 2014 will be done in accordance with the conditions on the ground | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
and what is right in terms of transition length from Allied | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Control to Afghan control. What is paramount in our minds is the | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
safety and security of our armed forces, who I pay tribute to today. | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
Mr Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
tribute to Sapper Connor Ray? He carried out his duties with the | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
utmost courage, saving many Afghan and British lives by what he did, | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
and our deepest condolences go to his family and friends. Today we | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
had the catastrophic news that Britain is back in recession. I am | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
sure the Prime Minister has spent the last 24 hours thinking of an | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
excuse as to why this has nothing to do with them. What is his excuse | :33:50. | :33:57. | |
this time? These are very, very disappointing figures. I don't seek | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
to excuse them. I don't seek to try and explain them away. Let me be | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
absolutely clear, there is no complacency at all in this | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
Government in dealing with what is a very tough situation that frankly | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
has just got tougher. I believe that the truth is this. It is very | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
difficult recovering from the deepest recession in living memory, | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
accompanied as it was by the debt crisis. Our banks had too much debt. | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
Our households had too much debt. Our Government had too much debt. | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
We have got to rebalance our economy. We need a bigger private | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
sector, more exports, more investment. This is painstaking, | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
difficult work, but we will stick with our plans, stick with the | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
lower interest rates and do everything we can to boost growth | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
competitiveness and jobs in our country. Mr Speaker, typical of | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
this arrogant Prime Minister, he tries to blame everyone else. The | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
reality is this is a recession made by him and the Chancellor in | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
Downing Street. Over the last 18 months since his catastrophic | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
spending review, our economy has shrunk. And this is now a slow | :35:12. | :35:20. | |
recovery from recession event than the 1930s. -- even compared to the | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
1930s. It is families and businesses paying the prices for | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
his arrogance and complacency. Why doesn't he admits that it is his | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
catastrophic economic policy and his plan for austerity, cutting too | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
far and too fast, that has landed us back in recession? There is not | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
a single business organisation or serious commentator or | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
international body that thinks these problems emerged in the last | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
24 months. The debt crisis has been long in the making, the failure to | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
regulate our banks has been long in the making, the Government | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
overspending has been long in the making. This is a tough and | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
difficult situation that the economy is in. But the one thing | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
that we must not do is to abandon public spending and deficit- | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
reduction plans because the solution to a debt crisis cannot be | :36:10. | :36:17. | |
more debt. We must not put at risk the low interest rates that are | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
absolutely essential to our recovery. That would be absolute | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
folly and that is why there is no business organisation, their | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
international economic organisation, that suggests that we follow that | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
course. -- no international economic organisation. It is all | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
bluster. His plan has failed. That is the reality. They are the people | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
but said that Britain is a safe haven, the Chancellor even said it | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
on Monday, and we are back in recession. He was the person who | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
said we are out of the danger zone and this is what has happened. Even | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
his own backbenchers are saying that the complacent, arrogant posh | :36:56. | :37:04. | |
boys just don't get it. Now let's turn from the economic disaster of | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
this Government to the political disaster that is the culture | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
secretary. We now know that throughout the time the culture | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
secretary was supposed to be acting in an impartial manner, he and his | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
office were providing a constant flow of confidential information to | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
News Corporation about statements to be made in this House in advance, | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
his private discussions with the regulators, and his discussions | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
with the opposing parties. Having seen a 163 pages published | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
yesterday, is the Prime Minister seriously trying to tell us that | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
the Secretary of State was acting as he should have done in a | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
transparent, impartial and fair manner? Let me just finish off on | :37:49. | :37:58. | |
the economy, which he has moved off. Order. Let's hear what the Prime | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
Minister has to say on the economy and anything else. The Prime | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
Minister. We will not let anyone forget who got us into this mess in | :38:05. | :38:15. | |
:38:15. | :38:17. | ||
More spending, more borrowing, more debt. That is what caused these | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
problems. It cannot be the solution to these problems. Now let me turn, | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
Mr Speaker, to the Leveson Inquiry. I set up the Leveson Inquiry, the | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
terms of reference of the inquiry were agreed by the leader of the | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
Liberal Democrat Party, and the leader of the Labour Party. And I | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
believe that to step in and try and prejudge that inquiry would be | :38:43. | :38:53. | |
:38:53. | :39:03. | ||
And let me be clear, let me be clear. Lord Justice Leveson has | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
made that precise point this morning. Let me read to the House | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
what he has said. Perhaps the House would like to listen? Let's hear | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
what the Prime Minister has to say, and then the questioning will | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
continue. The Prime Minister. Justice Leveson said this this | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
morning. It is very important to hear every side of the story before | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
drawing conclusions. And then he said this. Although I have seen | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
requests for other inquiries and investigations, and of course I do | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
not seek to constrain Parliament, but it seems to me that the better | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
course is to allow this inquiry to proceed. Having set up this inquiry, | :39:45. | :39:53. | |
having agreed with this inquiry, he should listen to the inquiry. | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
Speaker, Lord Justice Leveson is responsible for a lot of things, | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
but he is not responsible for the integrity of the Prime Minister's | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
Government. In case he had forgotten, that is his | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
responsibility, Mr Prime Minister. It beggars belief that the Prime | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
Minister can defend the culture secretary, because he was not | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
urging this bid. He was helping the bid by News Corporation. -- not | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
judging this bid. On 25th January, the culture secretary's office was | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
colluding with the score to provide them information in advance and | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
they were hatching a plant to ensure, and I quote, that would be | :40:36. | :40:43. | |
game over for the opposition to the bid. Does the Prime Minister really | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
believe that that is how a judge and his advisers should act? | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
Leader of the Opposition clearly does not think that what Lord | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
Leveson said this morning matters. Let me remind him what he said | :40:55. | :41:04. | |
yesterday about the Leveson Inquiry. He said this. I think that it is | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
right that the Leveson Inquiry takes its course. He went on, the | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
most important thing is that the Leveson Inquiry gets to the bottom | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
of what happened, of what Labour did, for the Conservatives did, and | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
we reach a judgement about that. Isn't it typical of the right | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
honourable gentleman? In the morning he said that his very clear | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
position but in the afternoon he cannot resist the passing political | :41:32. | :41:42. | |
:41:42. | :41:48. | ||
Total... Totally, totally... Order. I said the Prime Minister must be | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
heard. The Leader of the Opposition must be heard. Both will be heard, | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
however long it takes. It is very clear. Mr Speaker, totally pathetic | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
answers. He is the Prime Minister! If he can't defend the conduct of | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
his own ministers, his ministers should be out the door. He should | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
fire them. He does not even try and defend the Secretary of State on | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
what he did. The Secretary of State told this House on 3rd March this | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
year, in answer to a question from the honourable member for Banbury, | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
and I quote, today we are publishing all the consultation | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
documents, all the submissions we receive, all the exchanges between | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
my department and News Corporation. But he did not. 163 pages have now | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
emerged. The Prime Minister does not defend her in over giving | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
controversial information to one party in the case. -- defend him. | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
He does not offend him over collusion so is he really going to | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
defend him about not being straight with the House of Commons? That may | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
be absolutely clear about the culture secretary, who has my full | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
support for the excellent job that he does. -- let me be absolutely | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
clear. The culture secretary will be giving a full account of himself | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
in this House of Commons this afternoon and in front of the | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
Leveson Inquiry. And he will give a very good account of himself for | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
this very simple reason, that in judging this important bit, the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
culture secretary sought independent advice from independent | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
regulators at every stage, although he did not need to, and the culture | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
secretary took that independent advice at every stage, although he | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
did not need to. The way that the culture secretary has dealt with | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
this issue is in stark contrast to the Government of which he was a | :43:42. | :43:51. | |
member. I do so this to the Prime Minister. While his culture | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
secretary remains in place, one who refuses to come clean on his | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
meetings with Rupert Murdoch, the shadow of sleaze will hang over | :43:59. | :44:09. | |
:44:09. | :44:10. | ||
this Government. Mr Speaker, Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks and another | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
culture secretary. When is he going to realise it is time to stop | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
putting his cronies before the interest of the country? I have to | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
say to the right honourable gentleman, he called for an | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
independent judicial inquiry and that is the inquiry I have set up. | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
He agreed the terms of reference. Now he is flip-flopping all over | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
the place on it. The fact is that the problem of closeness between | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
politicians and media proprietors had been going on for years and it | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
is this Government that is going to sort it out. Whether it is the | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
proper regulation of the press, or whether it is cleaning up our | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
financial system, whether it is dealing with our debt, I don't dock | :44:54. | :45:04. | |
:45:04. | :45:15. | ||
my responsibilities. What a pity he Order. Order. Mr Carl McCartney. | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
Thank you. Is my right honourable friend aware of recent good news in | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
the manufacturing and engineering sectors in Lincoln, an increase in | :45:25. | :45:35. | |
turnover over 20%, and investments in a new tooling press and a new | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
engineering school in our country for 20 years. Would my honourable | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
friend accept my personal invitation to see for himself the | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
excellent process our city is enjoying. I am grateful to my | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
honourable friend's invitation and I will try and take it up. As I | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
said earlier, what's happening in our economy with the disappointing | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
news today, but underneath that there is a rebalancing that needs | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
to take place and that is taking place in terms of manufacturing and | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
investment and in terms of exports and in terms of the Government | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
getting behind that with more investment in apprenticeships, more | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
investments in technical hubs at our universities, like the one at | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
the University of Lincoln, and cutting business taxes so we get | :46:19. | :46:27. | |
Britain working and making things again. | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
Mr Speaker, on Monday the Prime Minister said that an economic | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
rescue mission, is it not fair to say that mission has failed | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
spectacularly in light of the figures released today? | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
The point I would make is if you look at the recession that we | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
suffered, a 7% contraction of our GDP, that was much bigger even than | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
what happened in America. It is worth remembering the biggest bank | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
bail-out anywhere in the world, it wasn't in America, it was here in | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
Britain, getting out of the recession, the financial crisis and | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
the debt crisis is difficult pain- staking work but this Government is | :47:04. | :47:12. | |
committed to doing just that. week I met the chief executive of | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
the fourth largest manufacturing group in the UK, who have a | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
substantial factory in Burnley, He has been instructed by his US board | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
to increase the turnover of his UK operations, so as to take advantage | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
of the Government's industrial strategy. He is concerned about the | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
lack of skills. Can my right honourable friend assure me that | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
the Government investment in apprenticeships and technical | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
colleges will increase over the coming years? | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
What is interesting, Mr Speaker, is that if any member of parliament | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
wants to talk about manufacturing success or business success in | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
their constituency, they are shouted down by the opposition. | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
Because all they want to hear is bad news and to talk our economy | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
down. We are investing in skills. We are putting more money into the | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
apprenticeship schemes. We are putting money into the university | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
technical colleges. I was at Airbus in Filton this week seeing | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
expansion and growth plans there and it's good to hear what's | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
happening in his constituency. the Prime Minister agree with his | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
Chancellor who said in 2008 that once you have a downturn you cannot | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
possibly slash public expenditure, will he stick to his complacent | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
plan of cutting too far and too fast which is's delivered a double- | :48:33. | :48:43. | |
:48:43. | :48:43. | ||
dip recession? Well, well read. The point is we | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
inherited from the party opposite a budget deficit of 11%. The budget | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
deficit we inherited was bigger than Greece, than Spain, bigger | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
than Portugal. If you don't deal with your debts and your deficit, | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
you will never keep interest rates low and it is low interest rates | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
that offer us the best prospects of getting out of this difficult | :49:04. | :49:14. | |
:49:14. | :49:17. | ||
economic situation we are in. you, Mr Speaker. | :49:17. | :49:27. | |
:49:27. | :49:28. | ||
Order. At least half a million children | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
died from malaria last year. On world malaria day may I thank the | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
Prime Minister for his personal commitment to combating this | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
disease and will he join me in recognising the international | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
leadership which British scientists, aid workers and volunteers, | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
including in my constituency, show in combating malaria. | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
I am very grateful to join the honourable gentleman and to wish | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
the people well. He did rather better in convincing the people to | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
vote for him than I did in 1997. He is absolutely right to raise the | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
issue of malaria, 15,000 children die every week from what is a | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
preventable illness. That's why I am proud of the fact that Britain | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
is leading on this issue, is putting money into our aid budget, | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
putting money into malaria bed nets and to the scientific advances that | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
he refers to. This is a vital agenda and even in difficult | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
economic times I think we are right to pursue it. | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
Does this out of touch Prime Minister still believe that the | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
British economy is out of the danger zone? | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
One of the biggest problems we faced on taking office was the | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
danger that financial markets would take a view of Britain like they | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
had taken a view of Greece or Spain or Portugal where interest rates | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
were rising. The fact that we have such low interest rates in Britain | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
demonstrates that we have credibility. These are difficult | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
decisions to get on top of debt and deficit and to deal with public | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
spending, but they're the right decisions, not least because the | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
Shadow Chancellor once said that low interest rates are the mark of | :51:09. | :51:18. | |
economic credibility. The head teachers have within | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
calleder valley both very much welcome the educational reforms. | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
Two schools who never qualified from the previous Government | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
because they abstained too highly. Can the Prime Minister tell the | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
pupils of those schools when they can expect an announcement on the | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
priority school buildings project to which they both applied? | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
What I can tell him is that compared with the first two | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
parliaments of the party opposite ran, we are investing more in | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
school building than they did. I think the figure now is something | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
along the lines of �17 billion during this spending review period, | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
so there are opportunities for new classrooms and new buildings and I | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
am sure the Secretary of State for education is listening carefully to | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
my honourable friend and will be in touch with him about the prospects. | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
Does the Prime Minister agree with the member from mid-Bedfordshire | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
when she said that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor... | :52:19. | :52:27. | |
Order. Order. Let's hear the question. Posh boys showing no | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
compassion or understanding for the lives of others and will he admit | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
admit further evidence of being out of touch and why we are in a | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
double-dip recession? I agree with my honourable friend | :52:41. | :52:51. | |
:52:51. | :52:51. | ||
about many, many things. Over the last two years UK exports | :52:51. | :52:58. | |
have grown by 23%, with faster growth to the - with my friend join | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
me in congratting the 150 winners of the Queen he is award for | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
enterprise this week for success in international trade, particularly | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
in my constituency. I certainly join him on congratulating this | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
business. When we look at some of the fastest growing markets in the | :53:18. | :53:25. | |
world, whether India or China our export performance compared with | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
2009 in some of those markets is up by as much as 60%. As well as those | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
markets, we also have to remember our old friends as it were, and the | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
fact that we still export more to the Republic of Ireland than to | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
Brazil, Russia, India and China combined. So expanding our existing | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
markets but much more work to get into the fast growing markets in | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
the world. Recently the Prime Minister conceded that the | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
Government had made an important mistake in the handling of the fuel | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
crisis. Can I ask him wouldn't it be a positive step in correcting | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
that mistake if the Government were to scrap the 3p increase in August, | :54:08. | :54:15. | |
in order to help motorists, haulage companies, and hard-pressed | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
families in the United Kingdom? First of all, the Government has | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
actually used around �4 billion of budget money to keep petrol prices | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
down and petrol prices are about 6p lower than they would be under the | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
plans of the party opposite. Let me update the honourable gentleman and | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
the House on the issue of the fuel strike. It now looks as if there is | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
a longer period of time before any potential strike could take place. | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
I am determined that we use that time to make sure there is every | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
piece of resilience in place. The plans we inherited would have | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
allowed the military to provide maybe 10% of our fuel needs. We | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
have now managed to lift that to something like 60 or 70 %. We are | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
in much better place now because of the proper emergency planning that | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
this Government has done, rather than the party opposite that just | :55:05. | :55:13. | |
crossed their fingers and hoped the best from the trade unions. Next | :55:13. | :55:20. | |
Wednesday my mother will celebrate her 100th birthday. Living as she | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
does five minutes from the Olympic stadium, she has agreed to be Usain | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
Bolt's pace-maker in order to give the other athletes a chance. Will | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
my right honourable friend now call on the indomitable spirit of former | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
land army girls such as my mother, and encourage our Olympic athletes | :55:37. | :55:44. | |
to go for gold? I will certainly do that. I have | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
written to Maude to congratulate her on this fantastic milestone. I | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
am sure that as she speeds past Usain Bolt she will just turn round | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
and reflect that indeed the only way is Essex. | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
I am delighted the Prime Minister has written to her, that makes two | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
of us. Thank you. The Prime Minister has spent plenty of time | :56:07. | :56:17. | |
:56:17. | :56:17. | ||
cosying up to News Corporation, in return for political support. I can | :56:17. | :56:24. | |
wait. I can wait. So he is well qualified to answer this question, | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
when Alex Salmond agreed to to act as a lobbyist for News Corp was he | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
acting in self-interest or in the interests of Scotland? | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
First of all, I think Alex Salmond can answer for himself. Secondly, | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
think-tank this is another issue that -- I think that is another | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
issue the Leveson inquiry properly set up, that's going to interview | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
all the politicians, including all sorts of people who cosied up to | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
News International over the years, and I think on all sides of the | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
House there is a need for a hand on heart, we all did too much cosying | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
up to Rupert Murdoch, I think we would agree, on that basis I am | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
sure that Lord Leveson will make some important recommendations. | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
the Prime Minister seen the research published today by the | :57:15. | :57:22. | |
Taxpayers' Alliance which shows that there are 3,097 town hall | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
employees earning more than �100,000 and 52 earning more than | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
�250,000. My conconstituteents can't understand the salaries. What | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
can we do about it? I think he is entirely right to | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
raise this issue. The important thing that we have done is made | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
completely transparent the pay in our town halls and in local | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
Government. Sadly, I believe there is still one local council, a | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
Labour-controlled council in Nottinghamshire, that's not making | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
this information available. Every council should be transparent about | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
how they spend council taxpayers money. | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
to those people warning him that cutting too far and too fast would | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
cause a double-dip recession should apologise. Now he's delivered a | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
double-dip recession, shouldn't he appoll apologise? The point I make | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
is this, we faced a very difficult situation with an 11% budget | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
deficit. If we had listened to the plans of the party opposite and | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
spent more, borrowed more and increased our debt, that would have | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
only made the debt crisis worse. How can the answer to a debt crisis | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
be more borrowing? That is the question the party opposite can | :58:38. | :58:46. | |
never answer. After weeks of ducking and diving, Ken Livingstone | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
has given a partial publication of his tax affairs. Sadly, he refuses | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
to publish the tax affairs of the company he set up to avoid paying | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
his fair share of tax. Does my right honourable friend agree that | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
Ken Livingstone has ceased to be the old pretender and now become | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
the artful tkopbler -- dodger? think my friend speaks for all of | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
London when he makes this point, Ken Livingstone owes the people of | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
London some proper transparency about this company and about his | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
tax bill. There are still several days to go before this key election. | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
He should make that information available. I have to say, Mr | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
Speaker, I had something of a shock this week when I hardly ever agreed | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
with anything Alan Sugar has ever said, but in saying Londoners | :59:32. | :59:41. | |
shouldn't back Ken, he was spot on. Now that the Prime Minister's | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
admitted that he's created the economic mess the country's in, can | :59:45. | :59:52. | |
I be helpful to the Prime Minister? Drop his ridiculous proposals for | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
regional pay cuts and accelerate the capital programme for schools | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
in the West Midlands. We are spending more on capital on schools | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
in this parliament than either of the first two Labour parliaments. I | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
am happy again for Education Ministers to look specifically at | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
the case in his constituency and see what can be done. I also hope | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
that he will be joining me and inviting people in Coventry on the | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
3rd May to vote yes to a mayor for Coventry. Every year millions of | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
British people donate money to charities. They do it for the | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
simple reason they want to help the cause and help others worse worse | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
off than themselves. Wye call these actions by members of the public as | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
being honourable, kind and selfless. We have all heard recently that | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
some, not all, but some of our wealthy citizens only want to | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
donate money to charity if they can tb to trb trb continue to reduce | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
their tax bill. Does the Prime Minister think their motives are | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
honourable and selfless? We should support in our country people who | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
give money to charity. And that's why this Government has expanded | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Gift Aid in a generous way and made available a change to help people | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
with inheritance tax if they leave quests to charity. There were set | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
out in the Budget a number of limits to relieves, we specifically | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
identified the potential problem for charities and my friend the | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
Chancellor is going to consult widely about how we can make sure | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
we encourage charities and encourage what they do in our | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
country. The Prime Minister's dismissive response to the fact the | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
UK is back in recession suggests that his mind is on other things. | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
Shouldn't he just sack his Culture Secretary and concentrate properly | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
on the job of sorting out the British economy? I think the | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
honourable lady would recognise there is absolutely nothing | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
dismissive about either my reply on the economy, or indeed what I think | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
we need to do. We are in a difficult economic situation in | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Britain. Just as you see now recessions in Denmark, in Holland, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
Italy, in Spain, that's what is happening across the continent that | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
we trade with. What is absolutely essential is we take every step we | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
can to help our economy out of recession. Investing in | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
apprenticeships, setting up enterprise zones, cutting business | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
taxes, prioritising investment in our Africa, we are -- in our our | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
infrastructure, we are doing all of these things to help get our | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
economy out of the mess the last Government left in. | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
Far from being dismissive, the Prime Minister acknowledged that | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
the figures were disappointing. But would he agree with me that getting | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
out of a debt crisis you don't spend more money and there is no | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
international organisations suggesting this country changes its | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
force and spend more money to get out of a debt crisis? | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
My honourable friend is right, it's not just there is no international | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
body body that's making that case, there is no business organisation | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
making that case. Indeed, the IOD and the CBI are both saying that | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
while these figures are disappointing, we must not give up | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
the low interest rates and the credible fiscal policy we have, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
that would be the way to land our economy in the problems that they | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
left it in. It's a sorry state of affairs, in two years the economy | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
is in deep recession and now the Government is deep in sleaze. Same | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
old Tories? I think Russell Brand got it about | :03:25. | :03:35. | |
:03:35. | :03:40. | ||
right yesterday. Order. STUDIO: We are going to stay | :03:40. | :03:50. | |
:03:50. | :03:51. | ||
in the Commons now. We are going to stay because Jeremy | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
Hunt, the culture secretary, whose special advisor resigned this | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
morning, just as we were coming on air, because of revelations in the | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
Leveson inquiry yesterday, over his communications with the chief | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
lobbyist for News Corp as they were trying to buy BSkyB, he has fallen | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
hpb oeus sword this morning. Here is Jeremy Hunt. | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
following yesterday's developments in the Leveson inquiry. Although I | :04:28. | :04:36. | |
intend to respond fully to allegations about my conduct and my | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
department when I present my evidence to Lord Justice Leveson, | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
it's important to update the House on actions that have been taken as | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
a result of evidence released yesterday. We are 273 days into a | :04:51. | :04:59. | |
process that's first stage will last until October. This is not the | :04:59. | :05:09. | |
:05:09. | :05:11. | ||
time to jump on a political bandwagon. What the public want to | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
hear is not the right hopb honourable gentleman's views, not | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
my views, but the views of Lord Justice Leveson when he has | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
considered all the evidence. I do, however, think it is right to set | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
the record straight on a number of issues in the light of evidence | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
heard yesterday at the inquiry. Specifically, on the merger of News | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
Corp with BSkyB, I would like to remind the House of the process I | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
followed. Throughout I have strictly followed due process. | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
Seeking the advice of independent regulators, something I didn't have | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
to do, and after careful consideration acting on their | :05:52. | :05:59. | |
advice. I have published all advice that I have received from Ofcom and | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
the OFT, together with core respondence with myself including | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
details of all meetings I have heard in relation to this process. | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
As part of this process, my officials and I have engaged with | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
News Corporation and its representatives as well as other | :06:17. | :06:27. | |
:06:27. | :06:32. | ||
interested parties, both supporters Messages have been alleged to | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
indicate that there was a back channel through which News | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
Corporation were able to influence my decisions. This is categorically | :06:40. | :06:49. | |
not the case. Order. The House must calm down a bit. The statement must | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
be heard. There will be a full opportunity for questioning of the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Secretary of State, which he would expect, and whether he expected or | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
not that is what will happen and that is right and proper. But it is | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
also right and proper that the state and be heard with courtesy. | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
However, the volume and tone of those communications were clearly | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
not appropriate in a quasar judicial process, and today Adam | :07:16. | :07:25. | |
Smith has resigned as my special adviser. -- quasi-judicial process. | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
Although Adam Smith accepts that he overstepped the mark on this | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
occasion, I want to set on record that I believe he did so | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
unintentionally. I did not believe that he was doing anything more | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
than giving advice on process. I believe in to be someone of | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
integrity and decency, and it is a matter of huge regret to me that | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
this has happened. Mr Speaker, I only saw the transcripts of these | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
communications yesterday. They did not influence my decisions in any | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
way at all. Not least because I insisted on hearing the advice of | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
independent regulators at every stage of the process. I will give | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
my full record of events when I give evidence to Lord Justice | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
Leveson. However, I would like to resolve this issue as soon as | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
possible, which is why I have written to Lord Justice Leveson, | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
asking if my appearance can be brought forward. I am totally | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
confident that when I present my evidence, the public will see that | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
I conducted this process with scrupulous fairness throughout. | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
Harriet Harman. Thank you, Mr Speaker. | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
We are going to leave the Commons now, but worry not, we will listen | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
to what Harriet Harman has to say at she responds to Jeremy Hunt and | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
we will bring you what the shadow culture secretary says in response | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
to that statement. He said that he followed to process throughout in | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
the Murdoch bid for all of BSkyB. Murdoch owned 40% of it and he | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
wanted to buy the 60% who did not have. He acted on independent | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
advice, he said from Ofcom and the Office of Fair Trading, two of the | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
regulators in media takeovers. He said that the emails and texts | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
published in the Leveson Inquiry yesterday showed a close | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
relationship between his special adviser and the chief lobbyist at | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
News Corp, but he claimed that did not amount to a back channel. He | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
said that the special adviser Adam Smith had resigned this morning, | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
but he believed that if Adam Smith had acted in appropriately, he had | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
not done so intentionally. He said there was a huge regret and he now | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
wants his day in court in front of Leveson. Our panellists is still | :09:46. | :09:56. | |
:09:56. | :09:56. | ||
here, and Nick Robinson has also stayed with us. What happened, do | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
you think, between the minister saying last night that he had | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
complete faith in Adam Smith and that he had done nothing wrong, and | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
Adam Smith resigning this morning? Presumably just a review of exactly | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
what happened, the messages and e- mails, and the decision that they | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
had gone too far. It was suggested last night that the civil servant | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
in charge of Culture, Media and Sport had designated Adam Smith to | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
be the point of contact with News Corporation, and you would expect | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
such contacts in a high-profile media bit. Jeremy Hunt said that he | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
had contacts with opponents of the bid as well. These were minuted | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
meetings with civil servants present. Yes, indeed. The adviser | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
accepts that he went too far and he resigned. But it is a mark of | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
Jeremy Hunt's character that he defended him in the Commons today. | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
Is it credible when you read the substance of these emails and text | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
messages, in which to details all sorts of things that are going to | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
happen, all of which did then happen, he was a particularly well- | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
informed special adviser, and that he also in a number of text | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
messages which are more interesting than the emails said that things | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
are going well, fine, things are in a good place, is it credible that | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
he did all of that unintentionally? Yes, I think so. He was a point of | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
contact from the department with News Corporation but he probably | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
went too far. For that reason he has quite properly offered his | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
resignation but I am certain that Jeremy Hunt is right that he did | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
not intend to do that. It is your contention that the special adviser | :11:30. | :11:38. | |
had this extensive correspondence digitally with the head of lobbying | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
at News Corp and that Jeremy Hunt knew nothing about that? I do not | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
intend that at all. The special adviser was authorised to be the | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
point of contact with News Corporation, as you would expect | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
there to be content with News Corporation over the bird and other | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
interested parties, but he went too far. -- the bid. I have no doubt | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
that Jeremy Hunt did not authorise him to reveal special information | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
and did not expecting to do so and there is no doubt in my mind about | :12:07. | :12:15. | |
that. At a point in this whole process, when things have gone well | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
for BSkyB, at this point, I know they did not in the end, but at | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
this point they did, the chief lobbyist texted Mr Smith and said, | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
we are in a good place tonight, I think. Mr Smith replied, yes, I | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
think we are. But let's see what the press says tomorrow. This is | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
complicit in BSkyB's bid. It is the fact that he gave the impression | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
that the Government was too close to BSkyB that prompted his | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
resignation. You are right, that cannot be defended and that is why | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
he had to resign in the end. would he do so? A key overstepped | :12:49. | :12:57. | |
the remit that he was given by the Secretary of State. -- he | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
overstepped the remit. But why would he do that since we know that | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
without his master's voice giving him support, when we know from | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
Jeremy Hunt's previous statements, that he is a cheerleader for Rupert | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
Murdoch, that he wanted the BSkyB bid to go ahead, that he was in | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
favour of that sort of thing? You must only have thought he was doing | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
his master's bidding. I don't think so. Jeremy Hunt took extreme care. | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
He took independent advice when that was not compulsory. In order | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
to seek the proper form, he had proper advice given to him at every | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
stage when he did not have to. That is how seriously he took his quasi- | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
judicial responsibility and it is important that he would have an | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
opinion on this when Vince Cable said that he would go to war on | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
Rupert Murdoch. But he sought independent advice. What do you say | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
to that? It beggars belief that when Jeremy Hunt was publishing a | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
cache of emails and meetings between himself and Murdoch over | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
the BSkyB bid, that Adam Smith sat in the office, next door to the | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
culture secretary, I did not say, hold on, boss, there is something | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
that I have to tell you. That is extraordinary. These emails were | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
carried on on his private account. The idea that Jeremy Hunt had | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
absolutely no idea about this simply beggars belief. I think that | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
is exactly the question that will now be pursued by the Labour Party | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
in the state bed and potentially by end of the inquiry. What did Jeremy | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
Hunt know? -- in a statement. It is perfectly possible that there could | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
be some point of contact between the department and an interested | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
party. Why make that party political contact and not official? | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
Why make it as special adviser rather than a civil servant who | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
would take notes? They think that his question number one. If you are | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
News Corp with an �8 billion bid and you are an important company | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
for Britain, the Government will keep you informed about the dates | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
of processes and give you copies of statements, all sort of background | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
information, provided that we are not giving you things that you | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
should not have before Parliament, before the markets and before the | :15:09. | :15:17. | |
public. That his Test No. 1, so why did he do it? The impression | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
created here is that the department wanted to give the impression that | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
it was acting in a semi- judicial way, while simultaneously giving | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
news got the impression that it was on its side. -- News Corp. The next | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
question is whether Jeremy Hunt new about this duality. He is based in | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
this way and his minister, his adviser, a party political | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
appointment, is facing the other way. Just to boil it down, what is | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
critical is whether he is the Minister for Murdoch or the | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
minister for public interest and the only way of establishing that | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
is if we find the e-mail traffic with officials about what he knew | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
with his special adviser. Let me bring in the minister among us, who | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
knows how things operate in Government. If there was a | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
necessity to create a link between the Department and the interested | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
parties, why was that Labour given to a political adviser and not his | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
civil servant? -- that link. We know that these meetings are toxic. | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
The meetings with Margaret Thatcher have been a running problem since | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
1981. Why was it not given to the civil servant? Why was it to only | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
one side of the argument? Why was the information only given to BSkyB | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
and not to the coalition of media companies that were against BSkyB? | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
The judgment would have had to have been taken within the department, | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
including by somebody who was best able to advise a News International | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
on the process that was being followed. That should be a civil | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
servant. Special advisers are subject to most of the regulation, | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
remember. They have special status. But special advisers cannot run | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
amok. They are also bound by large obligations on how they should | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
behave. I think the answer to Nick Robinson's challenge of how they | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
are behaving, we actually know the answer because we know the | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
decisions that were taken. The decisions at each stage that were | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
taken by that department followed objective, independent, external | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
advice. Something that was not suggested yesterday by James | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
Murdoch or anything else, is that Jeremy was looking after the | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
interest of News International. Jeremy Hunt was following the due | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
process to the frustration of News International sometimes. Why was | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
the flow of information only to the BSkyB side and not of the coalition | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
of interest against BSkyB? I don't know. Well, I can tell you because | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
I have spoken to those opposing the BSkyB bid, and they got nothing. | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
Nothing like the information that Adam Smith was passing to the News | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
Corp lobbyists. They have won rather stilted meeting that was | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
called wooden and that was the end of it. -- they had one meeting. | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
is the end of speculation... That is not speculation, it is factual. | :18:21. | :18:28. | |
The coalition did not get any of the updates or briefings on process | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
that the BSkyB people got. Why? Jeremy Hunt, the Prime Minister, | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
all of us in the Government, a trust Lord leathers and to reach an | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
overall judgment on the conduct of what was done. -- trust law Leveson | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
to reach an overall judgment. is not what I was asking. You can | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
go to the Daily Mail, the BBC, the other newspapers. I will ask Louise | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
Mensch if I cannot get an answer from you. If it was important that | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
the interested parties had a man, but decide whether that should have | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
been a civil servant or not, why was the flow of information to only | :19:05. | :19:13. | |
First of all, Jeremy will publish his contact. It was the permanent | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
Secretary who decided that Adam Smith should be the point of | :19:15. | :19:24. | |
contact. Why was it all one-way. if Adam Smith had contact with | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
those opposing the bid. Should Adam Smith now publish the unauthorised | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
corerespondence with the anti-BSkyB people? Jeremy Hunt has said that | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
he is going to publish details of all his meet stphaogs and all his | :19:39. | :19:47. | |
contacts with. Every interested party pro and kropb. Let's hear | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
what the shadow Culture Secretary had to say in response to Jeremy | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
Hunt's statement a few minutes ago. Here is Harriet Harareman. Everyone | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
-- Harman. Everyone recognises the bid was of huge commercial | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
importance and had profound implications for newspapers and for | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
all of broadcasting, including the BBC. The Business Secretary had | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
been stripped of his responsibility for deciding on the bid because he | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
had already made up his mind against the bid. But the Culture | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
Secretary too had made up his mind, in favour of the bid. So how could | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
he have thought it proper for him to take on that decision? Of course | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
he could take advice, but the decision as to whether he should do | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
it and could do it fairly was a matter for him and him alone. The | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
Secretary of State took on responsibility and assured this | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
House that he would be acting in a quasi-judicial role, like a judge | :20:47. | :20:54. | |
and be transparent, impartial and fair. But, Mr Speaker, isn't it the | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
case that James Murdoch was receiving information in advance | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
about what the Secretary of State was going to do and what he was | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
going to say. Information which was given only to one side, which had | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
not been given to those opposed to the bid and before it was given to | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
this House. Does he think it's acceptable that Murdoch knew not | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
only about what he was going to do and say, but crucially, what the | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
regulator Ofcom had said to the Secretary of State on 10th January | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
2011 and what the bid's owe opponents had said on 20th March | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
and 31st March, 2011? Is he really going to to suggest to this House | :21:36. | :21:46. | |
:21:46. | :21:51. | ||
that James Murdoch's advisor, Fred Miclel, knowing all this was just a | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
coincidence? Can the Secretary of State explain to the House how Fred | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
Michel in a series of e-mails beginning on 23rd January was in a | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
position to tell Murdoch the full detail of a statement the Secretary | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
of State was not going to give to this House until two days later? | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Whatever interpretation is put on e-mails, there can be no doubt that | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
Michel's e-mail accurately and in detail described meetings that the | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
Secretary of State had had and accurately foretold what the | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
Secretary of State was going to do. Either Michel was Mystic Meg, or he | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
had been told. When it comes to the transparency the Secretary of State | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
promised, there appear to be a great deal of transparency for | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
Murdoch, but precious little for opponents of this bid or for this | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
House. If, has been suggested on his behalf in the media, he was | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
negotiating with Murdoch, why didn't he tell the opponents to the | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
bid and why didn't he tell the House? Will he tell the House now | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
whether he believed himself to be negotiating, is that what he says | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
is going on? On 3rd March he told this House that he had published | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
details of all the exchanges between his department and News | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
Corporation. In the light of all the information that we now know | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
that Fred Michel had, does he still maintain that's the case? His | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
special advisor has admitted that his activities at times went too | :23:19. | :23:26. | |
far and he has resigned. But will the Secretary of State confirm that | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
under paragraph 33 of the Ministerial code, it is the | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
Secretary of State himself who is responsible for the conduct of his | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
special advisor? Mr Speaker, this was a controversial bid. He could | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
have refused to take it on, but he didn't. He could have referred it | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
to the Competition Commission, but he didn't. His role was to be | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
impartial, but he wasn't. His conduct should have been quasi- | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
judicial, but it fell far, far short of that. And fell short of | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
the standards required by his office. The reality is that he | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
wasn't judging this bid, he was backing this bid and so should | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
resign. Harriet Harman asking questions off | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
Jeremy Hunt after he made his statement. This morning, it's like | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
waiting for a bus, nothing happens and three come at once. While we | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
have been broadcasting all of that, Rupert Murdoch has continued to to | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
testify to the Leveson Inquiry. We are going to keep our panel for a | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
few moments. Jo, give us an update. We are going to find out more on | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
what Rupert Murdoch has been saying, that had been going on just before | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
Prime Minister's questions. He was giving evidence to the Leveson | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
Inquiry and they had actually focused at the Royal Courts of | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
Justice on relations between Rupert Murdoch and previous Prime | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
Ministers over the decades. We left it when he was talking about | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
relationships with Margaret Thatcher. Our correspondent Adam | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
Fleming has been watching and I believe they've moved on to to | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
relations between Rupert Murdoch and the former Labour leader Tony | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
Blair. Yes, in the last hour, Rupert Murdoch's been talking about | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
that period running up to the 97 election where the News | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
International titles decided to swing their support behind Tony | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
Blair. It's resembled a book club at times, they've been quoting from | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
books, diaries, books by Lance Price as well, and one by someone | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
called Andrew Neil who used to work for Rupert Murdoch. Who is he! | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
They've been talking about why Rupert Murdoch changed his mind. He | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
said he got to know Tony Blair and decided to make the endorsement of | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
Tony Blair when Mr Blair wrote a eurosceptic editorial piece for the | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
Sun and that was when the Sun decided to support Mr Blair. He | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
denied there was any deal done with Mr Blair in return for that support, | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
he said if there had Tony Blair chucked it out the window by | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
creatinging Ofcom which had powers to interfere with BSkyB and they've | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
moved from the Blair era to the Brown era in the last few minutes. | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
Interesting, I have to say. But not exactly surprising. I am not quite | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
sure of the relevance of going through all this questioning of | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
past relations with Prime Ministers. I think they're trying to establish | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
a pattern as to what the relationship was between press | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
proprietors and politicians from the left and right. What is the | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
reply to the Harriet Harman point that under the Ministerial code | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
Ministers are responsible for the behaviour of their special advisers. | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
That's absolutely true but Ministers are responsible for the | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
terms of of reference they set hout how special advisers should act. A | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
Minister cannot know at all times if he employs a special advisor and | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
they're doing nothing wrong, that would be ridiculous. Jeremy Hunt | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
would be at fault if it were to be shown he had instructed Adam myth | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
to act inappropriately. I am certain he has not done so. Last | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
night Jeremy Hunt was telling colleagues his special advisor had | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
done nothing wrong. That was my first question. I think there is | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
something important here, if on the publication of these e-mails there | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
had been a look of shock and horror, my goodness what has been done in | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
our name, in my office, out you go, that's one thing. But if the | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
message coming from Whitehall all day is actually there's nothing | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
incriminating, lots embarrassing, that doesn't look great, but | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
nothing wrong. And then hours later you say the following morning, | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
after perhaps a little intervention from someone in Whitehall or indeed | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
from treat, no, no, the special advisor has to go. Some explanation | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
is required as to how you move from position one to two. A lot of | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
unravelling to go yet. Mary Creagh, you need to pick the Guess the Year | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
winner. I want to know whether David Cameron had a chat with James | :27:42. | :27:52. | |
:27:52. | :27:54. | ||
Murdoch. There we go. 1952. | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
The year there. Graham Sowter from Blackburn. | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
Could be Bradford if you are George Galloway, I think it's Blackburn. | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
He is the one who has won. A couple of seconds. The final 30 seconds on | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
this whole business, on the Jeremy Hunt situation. It's clear from the | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
e-mails Jeremy Hunt had to build political cover on the process. | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
When he talks about the process he carried out he was building his own | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
cover. The tide of scandal is lapping at his feet and the | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
question is also about David Cameron. What was he he doing | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
discussing the bid in the fringes of the dinner party at Rebekah | :28:31. | :28:39. | |
Brooks house? I would like an answer, I would have like to be | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
there actually! Thank you all of you for doing here today. 1 o'clock | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
news is starting on BBC1 now. We will be back tomorrow at noon with | :28:50. | :28:55. |