Browse content similar to 09/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. Is the coalition | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
heading into unchartered territory? The two sides this week prepare to | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
go in to battle over the issue of Lords Reform. Can David Cameron | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
bring his Conservative rebels into line? Can Nick Clegg get his | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
treasured bill through Parliament? And can the two men keep the | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
coalition intact? Meanwhile Ed Miliband goes into | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
battle with the banks. The Labour leader is demanding a shake-up of | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
the industry. This afternoon the deputy governor of the Bank of | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
England will give evidence to MPs about his role in the Libor scandal. | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
Should the official beer of the Olympics be British? We'll be | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
looking at why some foreign lagers are leaving a bitter taste in the | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
mouths of some MPs. And we will be hoping that our | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
:01:36. | :01:46. | ||
Calm so far! All that in the next hour. | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
With us for the first half of the programme today is one man who | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
certainly won't behave like that, at least we hope, the government's | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
Behaviour Tsar, Charlie Taylor. Just as well Andrew is off today. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
Many bankers have not been behaving as they should. Their behaviour has | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
been so bad that this morning, Ed Miliband called up for a shake-up | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
of the banking system and a code of conduct for. We need a system where | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
bankers are given an incentive not just to focus on the short-term | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
return but the long term, a banking system where no one bank is too big | :02:21. | :02:28. | |
to fail or too powerful to be challenged. Where all banks face | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
real competition and customers have promises to make and maybe this | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
sounds like a long way off, but where the term at banker goes back | :02:39. | :02:47. | |
to being a compliment and stops being a term of abuse. Above all, a | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
system the British people can have confidence in. With us is the | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
shadowed Business Secretary Chuka Umunna. The code of conduct. There | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
will be legislation going through so what is it you are suggesting | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
that is different. There are different FSA regulations applied | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
but we want something more broadly applied across the sector. So I | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
used to be a solicitor and I am subject to the solicitors' code of | :03:18. | :03:27. | |
conduct and if I bridge that, you can be struck off... It is quite | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
restricted in the City of London to whom the regulations apply. We want | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
something broader. We have a code of conduct for people way if they | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
breach the fundamental principles, which has clearly happened, further | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
action needs to be taken but that is only part of it. The other thing | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
is there is the sense that if somebody in my constituency | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
shoplifters, the strong arm of the law is brought down to bear on them. | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
But the FSA is investigating and there can be criminal charges. | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
and there was a myth around the headlines that seemed to suggest | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
there was not legislation in place that enabled action to be taken. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
There was. The issue is that the Serious Fraud Office has not been | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
properly resourced to do this work. One of the things that Ed Miliband | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
spoke about today, the fine is 10 times more than the budget of the | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
FSO so we need to properly resourced that agency so it can do | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
the work to bring those to book. Let's look at things that would | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
make a difference to the average punter on the streets. Forcing the | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
big banks to sell 1,000 branches. How will that help people? Let me | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
put that in context. Part of the problem with the banking system is | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
that it is seen to serve the banks as opposed to the people. One your | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
high-street, you will notice there are just about five big players and | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
if you do not have significant competition, you do not end up with | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
a good deal for the consumer. 85% of small business lending is | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
dominated by four large banks and I think that has something to do with | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
the poor service many of them think they are getting. Make a cow on | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
switching easier. If people can move their accounts more easy Lee, | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
there will be more competition. -- more easily. I have done that | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
myself. How long did it take you to move your account from one bank to | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
another? Because that is the problem. It needs to be quicker. | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
Are these the sort of things you think will appeal? The important | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
thing that people worry most about is the idea that we will not have a | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
repeat of what happened in 2008, that people will not be queueing up | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
in the case of Northern Rock. that was an era over which Labour | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
presided. Isn't there a credibility problem for Labour, that at that | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
time, your party was in government and despite the accusations about | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
whether they were aware of what was going on in terms of rate rigging, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
they were having conversations with all of the banks, including | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
Barclays, at a time when... Labour has admitted they did not have | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
tight enough regulation? That is right. No doubt about it, we should | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
have better regulated the banks but the important thing is that people | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
in the future don't and are you going to learn the mistakes of the | :06:42. | :06:52. | |
:06:52. | :06:52. | ||
past or compound them? -- and the questionnaires. Vince Cable was | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
responsible for setting up the independent commission on banking | :06:55. | :07:03. | |
but what a shame it has produced a recommendation that if applied | :07:03. | :07:11. | |
strictly does not prevent a repeat of the crisis of 2008... They are | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
going to put through that recommendation. But having set up | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
the commission, they are watering down the proposals. The capital | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
requirements, the vicar's reports said go for a 4% offer, they are | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
going for 3%. They said you should have a clear separation between | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
investment banking and retail banking, but they are allowing some | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
of those things to take place together, for example, the | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
derivatives that we saw that were mis-sold to small and medium-size | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
enterprises. We need a strict application. We are arguing for | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
that because we have learned from our mistakes. I could go into how | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
they were saying we were over regulating but the fact is, we need | :08:02. | :08:09. | |
to have more regulating and we need to have ring-fencing of retail and | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
investment banking and they seem to be walking away from that. What do | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
you think Bob Diamond should get? This is an issue for the | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
shareholders. What do you think? think the public would find it | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
quite outrageous if having presided over failure and having been in the | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
driving seat when some of these things were happening in his bank, | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
for him to walk away with a pay-off beyond what anybody could think | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
about receiving in their lifetime? That is a good point. It is | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
important that politicians are not too heavily involved in this | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
process. This is a decision for shareholders and politicians can | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
set the standards but it is up to shareholders to make the decision. | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
But if the public feel that the banks have got away with a lot over | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
the last ten years, surely it is up to politicians to take the lead on | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
this. We can express an opinion. I think it is fair to say we would | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
not have seen the wave of investor revolves had people in Westminster | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
of all political persuasions not been arguing -- investor revolts. | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
Who should replace him? That is not for me... An insider? We want | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
somebody to restore Barclays' in the public eye... Is that for | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
somebody currently inside the bank? I don't think that is something | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
that as a politician I should be passing comment on. That is an | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
issue for the shareholders and the board. Barclays is our third | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
largest bank. I want to see its reputation restored, both | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
domestically and internationally, because that is in the national | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
interest. Some of the arguments that have been put forward, bearing | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
in mind Paul Tucker will be interviewed this afternoon, that if | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
the rates were being manipulated and he was aware of it at the Bank | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
of England, was he doing so for the sake of market confidence, which | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
was extremely low? A really important distinction needs to be | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
made about what was happening at the time and about what people in | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
the Treasury were concerned about. There was concerned about liquidity | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
and that if lending to businesses stalled, the economy would stall. | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
It is one thing have legitimate concerns about lending and | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
liquidity, and supporting the missed reporting that we saw with | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
the rate rigging. It is important that in maintaining the integrity | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
of the Bank of England that Paul Tucker clears this up this | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
afternoon. Do you be agreed that politicians are useless at holding | :10:55. | :11:03. | |
bankers to account -- do you agree? Do you agree with that point? | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
would not say that every single line of questioning did not work | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
but I think perhaps they could have done a better job the other week | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
and this is why we have been arguing for a judge LED inquiry | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
with a council... You have got you point him. Thank you, Jo. | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. The question for today is: What is | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
the official beer of the 2012 London Olympics? Is it: Slater's | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
Top Totty? Heineken? Bull Box's Taxi for Dave? Skol? At the end of | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
the show, someone will give us the correct answer. | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
The Government published its House of Lords Reform Bill last month. It | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
calls for the existing Lords to be replaced with a smaller, largely | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
elected, upper house. MPs will debate the plans in the Commons for | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
the first time today and tomorrow. But it is already causing an | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
almighty row, with the Government potentially facing its first | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
Commons defeat. The Government's plans for Lords reform have | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
certainly got some of the Lords a leaping. But it has also got | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
members of the House of Commons hopping mad. Nick Clegg insists | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
that Lords reform is a central part of the Coalition's programme for | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
government. But 70 Conservative backbenchers look set to rebel. | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
Tomorrow evening there will be a crucial vote on what is known as | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
the programme motion, which would allow the Government to guillotine, | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
or cut short, future debates. Without it, the bill may never get | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
passed. That would delight the rebels. The veteran Conservative MP | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
Sir Nicholas Soames says the Bill must be defeated at all cost. | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
Labour are in favour of reform but argue that the Government's | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
proposals are seriously flawed, so they will line up with the rebels | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
to block the programme motion. Lib Dems say that the Tory rebels are | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
going back on a clear commitment. And they accuse Labour of | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
undermining their claim to be a progressive party. James, what | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
exactly is given to happen? We had 70 Tory rebels, what does it mean | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
if they all vote against the motion with Labour? Does that mean the | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
government will lose? Yes, but proviso is that all Labour MPs vote | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
against the government and all independent and minorities party's | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
vote against the government. We know what the government majority | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
years, it is about 80. In technical terms you need the rebellion of | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
over 42 even have a chance. You have 70 Conservative MPs who put | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
their name to this letter today saying they think this is a bad | :13:33. | :13:40. | |
bill and they also think the Bill But they do not definitively say | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
they will vote against the government tomorrow night, and | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
there is clearly a difference between writing a letter and | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
walking through the division lobby in your government. But it shows | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
how difficult it will be for the government to win their vote. A lot | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
of time for on twisting and for the Prime Minister to make personal | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
calls but it is still a very big ask for the government to win. | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
tense is it at Westminster between all these various divisions? | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
depends who you talk to. Some Conservative MPs say, yes their | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
whips have been in touch but they have not had before heavy-handed | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
pressure, simply because a lot of these people have been public in | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
their opposition to Lords reform for some time. The mixture of the | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
carrot and stick is being deployed. I think both sides of the coalition | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
realise it is one of those issues that could drive a wedge between | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
them, the Conservatives say this is a Lib Dem priority and we should | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
not be doing this and the Lib Dems saying, this is something you | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
signed up to in the coalition agreement. That is where the | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
tension is, rather than between angry whips trying to persuade big | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
guys to go with them. Thank you, James Landale. | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
With us now is the Conservative MP, Conor Burns, Liberal Democrat peer, | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
:15:10. | :15:12. | ||
Lord Oakeshott, and the Labour MP, So you will resign as a ministerial | :15:12. | :15:22. | |
aide? It probably means that I will be sacked. What does your boss | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
think? My boss is passionately in favour of House of Lords reform. | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
What does he think about you voting against the Government? I think his | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
view that it is refreshing that somebody is prepared to lay down | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
their job in support of a long-held, passionate belief. How many other | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
people do you think will be in the same city I do not know. I know | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
there is at least one other, and I know of six further who | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
passionately agree with me, but will choose to stay in the | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
government. This letter, you have not signed up to it, presumably | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
because... I believe my name actually is on that list. Do you | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
understand that there is a fear amongst your Tory colleagues, and | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
amongst the Liberal Democrats, that you just cannot pick and choose | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
within this coalition, and you are in breach of that. We were very | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
clear in our manifesto that we would try to establish a consensus. | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
The joint committee failed to establish that consensus. The | :16:30. | :16:36. | |
coalition is incredibly important. For example, Lord Oakeshott left | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
the government over the economy. The central wasn't -- reason that | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
the coalition was reformed was to have economic stability. This is a | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
matter of principle, and what is it that the Liberal Democrats are so | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
upset about? The Tory MPs have set out their case, and they are | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
sticking to it, there was not a coalition government which said | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
that they would go forward and agree on proposals, just that you | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
would set them out. Just a minute, it was in the manifesto of each of | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
the three main parties, that we would reflect on the House of Lords. | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
The impression I get is that it is reasonably Amicus between the MPs, | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
but there is more tension in the House of Lords. -- reasonably | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
amicable. I think there is the feeling that somebody is trying to | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
throw them out of a rather agreeable old people's home. But in | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
general, within the coalition, we are united, it is the policy of all | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
three parties. Let's get a bit of perspective - it is completely | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
wrong that the laws of this country are voted on by people who have | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
been him pointed either by prime ministerial patronage or by kings | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
from years ago. This is a basic democratic principle, and certainly, | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
Chris Bryant and myself, we have had commission after commission, | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
and both of us were on the joint committee of 10 years ago, so we | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
have had plenty of time to discuss it, and now it is time to get on | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
with it. Do you agree that it is time we had a second chamber which | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
is elected, not appointed? I feel uneasy about any constitutional | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
reform, because we have had a functioning democracy for a very | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
long time. I am worried about people's priorities. We have just | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
had a debate about banking reform. I just wonder about the Taxi For | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
Dave -- the relevance of this at the moment. The people who make the | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
laws on this are elected in the House of Commons. The danger is | :18:37. | :18:44. | |
that you will be creating a rival chamber. And we have to vote on | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
this in the same way. We accept 80% of all amendments made by the House | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
of Lords to our legislation. It is a great way of revising and | :18:54. | :19:02. | |
improving legislation. We make the laws, like the Commons. He is | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
factually wrong. It is worrying when Conservatives cannot get their | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
history right. First of all, often, laws start in the House of Lords | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
and we end up revising them in the House of Commons. In that regard, | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
the two chambers have absolute parity. They are complementary. | :19:21. | :19:27. | |
all right, but they are not always revising. Secondly, the vast | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
majority of changes done in the House of Lords are done by the | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
government. There are things which should have been done in the | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
Commons, but they end up getting done in the House of Lords. In the | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
last two years, there have only been 241 votes in the House of | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
Lords. If you had an elected second chamber, I believe you would make | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
the House of Commons to which job better. I do not think we have a | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
perfectly -- perfectly functioning democracy in this country, I | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
disagree on that point. They have scrutinised very successfully in | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
the House of Lords health legislation, for example... | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
they do it better in the House of Lords than in the House of Commons? | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
One at a time, please. There is an awful lot of nonsense talk about | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
what a wonderful revising chamber and everything the House of Lords | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
is. There are some people with expertise, but there are also an | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
awful lot of has-beens, frankly, an awful lot of people who are only | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
there because they have given a million pounds to Tony Blair or to | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Margaret Thatcher. It is deeply corrupt. There is no way of | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
appointing peers to the House of Lords without corruption, it is a | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
basic principle. So, why isn't Labour-voting for this? I support | :20:45. | :20:52. | |
the bill. Because it is opportunistic? You asked me a | :20:52. | :21:00. | |
question, grumpy! Adam Mynott allowed to be grumpy? No, you are | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
not! There are problems with this bill, and I want to improve it. It | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
is important, because you need time to do it properly. Let me give you | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
one example. The whole page of the programme motion specify is that we | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
will only be allowed two days, about 11 hours of debate, to do the | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
first laws, the most important one, which deals with every single | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
element of the composition of the House of Lords. That's roughly six | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
hours of voting, let alone any time to debate things like, whether | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
there should be bishops in the House of Lords, whether it should | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
be 100% elected, they are not allowing enough time. This is why I | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
think it is important that we vote against. Do you buy the argument | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
that Labour are not going to vote for the programme motion, which | :21:49. | :21:56. | |
could mean that in the end, the reform fails? Labour, and I have | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
paid tribute to those who were in favour of genuine reform. But they | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
have to compromise, because in the House of Lords, you get a different | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
picture. I genuinely hope that some of the reformers on the Labour | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
benches might not vote for the programme motion tomorrow. The | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
danger is that if that programme loses, this is the one opportunity | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
in my lifetime, certainly, to get it through, but if it loses, Ed | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
Miliband has said that they will still vote for the closure on | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
individual filibusters, so it would not be the end of the world. What | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
happens to the coalition if that programme motion is voted down? | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
gets much more difficult. But no- one is making threats, we are just | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
saying... We say to everybody, including Conor Burns, it is very | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
difficult for us, some of the things we have had to vote for, | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
things like tuition fees, and if they do not co-operate with us, it | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
will be harder to get Liberal Democrat MPs to vote for certain | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
things. Conor Burns, what do you say to that, that is a threat, a | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
warning, let's put it that way, if you do not vote with the government. | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
Matthew is being buried temper it today, which is unusual. The deal | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
that was done was honoured. This is very important - some of us are in | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
favour of reform of the House of Lords, we would like to limit the | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
numbers, we would like to strengthen the Independent | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
commission, but what this bill proposes is the abolition of the | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
House of Lords, which is a very different thing altogether. And | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
actually, there is the case for reform of the House of Commons, a | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
point which was made by Chris Bryant. I would just say to the BBC, | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
please, in the next few months, do not get obsessed about the process | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
of this, it is about the substance. In the end, how we distribute power | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
within the British political system, which is what the House of Lords | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
does, is essential to our politics. At the moment, it is unsustainable, | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
it has got more than 800 members. At this rate, every single member | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
of the Liberal Democrat party will be a member of the House of Lords. | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
That is true. It is too big, that is absolutely true. But it is they, | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, who did that. I am totally in favour of | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
removing hereditaries. What about the coalition? The coalition came | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
together because of the economy, and that remains the central focus. | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
I should not be in that place, none of us should be in that place. | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
Where you Can Leave, taken leave of absence! If you are the last | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
hereditary peer to be elected, elected hereditary, I know it is | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
weird, but he only has his seat because the first person who had | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
his barony was put into the House of Lords in 1911 by the Liberals, | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
to make sure the bill got through. So, it is about time we had some | :25:05. | :25:13. | |
change. What do you think, looking at it from the coalition, do you | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
think it will survive? I think it is very important that the exciting | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
education reforms which the coalition are working through at | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
the moment should be protected by them continuing to work together. | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
am going to have to let you all go. I will try not to be as grumpy in | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
the future, Chris Bryant. If I told you teachers in England were being | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
urged to pin up notices on their walls reminding them to stay calm | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
and to remember the names of the children, you might think I was | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
making it up, but I am not. It is the latest attempt to get pupils to | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
behave themselves in their schools. The checklist is the brainchild of | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
our guest today, Charlie Taylor. We sent our correspondent back to | :25:57. | :26:03. | |
school to find out if it might work. A few years ago, this primary | :26:04. | :26:13. | |
school was in trouble. Wistaston Green Primary School was in trouble | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
with bad behaviour. But thanks to the efforts of Linda Davis and her | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
team, it came off the sick list in less than a year. It is now | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
clocking up above average ratings in English and maths. It took a lot | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
of hard work, and a version of this, Charlie's checklist. It is the | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
brainchild of the Government's adviser on classroom behaviour, | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
Charlie Taylor. It is simple, a list of ideas and instructions, | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
stuck up on the wall, so that head teachers, teachers and pupils, have | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
a daily reminder of behaviour. It includes advice like, keep the | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
buildings clean, stay calm, and, remember the names of the children. | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
If the words bloomin' obvious are coming into your mind, you might | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
not be alone. I am all in favour of the Government emphasising | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
discipline. It was one of the things that I was keen on. A child | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
who is out of control is learning nothing. But do you not -- but you | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
do not manage to do that by little gimmicks, and a checklist which | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
pupils can see is a bit of a gimmick. But here is the thing. It | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
may be obvious, but around here, they reckon it works. We all need | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
checklists. We use checklists for new staff, for induction, we know | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
that surgeons use checklists, airline pilots. We are only human, | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
and we can forget. If we are under stress, that is the very time when | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
we are likely to forget the basic, essential things. To my mind, a | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
checklist is a very useful document. Maybe, that teachers cannot live by | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
a list alone. Perhaps a more fundamental, time-consuming and | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
expensive issue needs to be addressed. I think traditionally we | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
have not spent enough time making sure that teachers can take control | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
of the class, earn respect and make sure that it is carried through out | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
into the playground and into the community. Even checklist | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
cheerleaders think that Blunkett might be onto something. I believe | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
young teachers on training courses need more training in managing | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
behaviour. That is for the simple reason that we can have the best | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
lesson in the world, differentiation, all sorts going on, | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
but if you can not -- cannot deliver it, and manage behaviour, | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
following the key points on the checklist, it can all fall apart. | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
Checklists may sound like the bloomin' obvious, but sometimes, | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
the bloomin' obvious works. Perhaps the bigger question is, what else | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
does the Government have up its sleeve to make sure that no child | :28:50. | :28:58. | |
is left behind? Reception, are we ready? What a well-behaved class. | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
With us now, the general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, | :29:02. | :29:10. | |
Christine Blower. Cannes come to you first of all, Charlie Taylor, | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
what do you think of the accusation that it is all a gimmick? That was | :29:15. | :29:22. | |
a good example, that school in Crewe, Linda Davis took over at | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
school when it was in a real state, and look at it now. She made a good | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
point, and lines and surgeons all use checklists for things like | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
washing your hands before doing an operation, or things like that. | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
Teaching is an incredibly complicated job at times. But just | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
like Linda Davis was saying, it is about getting the simple things | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
right. Surely it is a given that they will remember the names of the | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
children, that they will stay calm, that they will know what lesson | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
comes next. One would assume that planes would not take off without | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
enough fuel in the tank, and yet they have it on their checklist. It | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
is the same with surgeons, one would assume that they would wash | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
their hands. When we are excited about the brilliant lesson we are | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
going to deliver, actually, we can forget to do those basic things. | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
you think that is right, is it just as simple as having a checklist | :30:17. | :30:27. | |
:30:27. | :30:32. | ||
This is called Charlie's checklist. There are lots of different types | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
of checklists which have been operation before Charlie came up | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
with this idea. The fact is, the vast majority of primary kids have | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
a really good experience because teachers are making sure that | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
everything is in place, and I slightly disagree with David | :30:49. | :30:56. | |
Blunkett. The idea that saying what is accepted in the classroom is not | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
a gimmick, it is a good idea. It is the adults and children having a | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
shared understanding of what is happening so they can be ready to | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
do their learning. Does any of that work if you have very disruptive | :31:12. | :31:20. | |
pupils in that class? Relying on a ladder of success, is that going to | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
keep the class engaged and keep the disruptive pupils under control? | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
need absolute consistency so that children know what they are going | :31:29. | :31:39. | |
:31:39. | :31:40. | ||
into. There are children who need the additional support and | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
attention, but making sure that the classroom is well rewarded and | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
consistent helps for the vast majority of children. His behaviour | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
getting worse in the classroom? think teachers would say there are | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
a group of anxious, often young children coming into schools who | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
are more aggressive, but the general standards of behaviour are | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
continuing to improve and when I started teaching in the late 80s, | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
there was much worse behaviour. There were no-go areas in schools | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
with you did not fancy walking in break times. I think teachers have | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
done a fantastic job of improving behaviour. But if it is getting | :32:26. | :32:32. | |
worse and certain groups, is that exposing ineffective teaching? | :32:32. | :32:39. | |
Teaches that survive, they survived 20 years ago, are struggling now | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
because they are not good enough? People need to have more expertise | :32:44. | :32:52. | |
when we are dealing with the relief -- really troubled children. The | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
checklist is about keeping things simple and well organised but there | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
is a group of children who require little bit extra and that is where | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
we need training, expertise and support. And that costs money. | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
There is a huge amount of money being spent already on these | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
children. Schools are spending a fortune on things like teaching | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
assistants who support children who have not had the expertise they | :33:20. | :33:28. | |
need to deliver. Is the problem that what teachers need sometimes | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
is a bit of personality? No-win your subject is marvellous but | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
sometimes you need a bit of... you look at the teacher or mad | :33:38. | :33:46. | |
video? The vast majority of teachers have to be like that. What | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
Charlie his singing is that in general, behaviour is better than | :33:49. | :33:55. | |
it ever was. -- What Charlie is saying. There is a small group of | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
difficult young people and we need something additional for them, but | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
all teachers need to look at the way that he managed behaviour | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
because if you can't manage the behaviour in the classroom, you | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
can't do the teaching in the first place. Michael Gove mentioned | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
returning to O-levels? It is a good and time the argument to be having. | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
A lot of people feel there has been graves inflation, that GCSEs are | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
not worth the O-levels that I did many years ago. Therefore it is | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
important there is a debate about that and we cannot have people | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
feeling that what we are doing now is not good enough. Thank you. | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
So any sign that things are calming down for the summer? Doesn't look | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
like it! In a moment, we will talk to a couple of political hacks who | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
we have flushed out from the dark corridors of Westminster. But first, | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
As we have heard, the week starts with the coalition's sternest test | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
yet. MPs are discussing Lords reform today and tomorrow. The | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
Treasury Select Committee is due to ask questions about the Barclays | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
Libor banking debacle. Paul Tucker, the Bank of England's Deputy | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
Governor, is up today. Barclays chairman, Marcus Agius, will be | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
quizzed tomorrow. And, also tomorrow, French President Francois | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
Hollande arrives in London for talks with David Cameron. By | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
Wednesday, social care comes to the fore when the government's care and | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
support white paper is debated. And believe it or not, Wednesday will | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
be the last PMQs before the summer Let's talk now to our political | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
hacks, Torcuil Crichton, of the Scottish Daily Record, and Craig | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
Woodhouse, the Sun's new political correspondent. Can the Coalition | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
survive the week? It will certainly be the biggest test for the | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
coalition. Rebels are thinking, Tory rebels, that they will be able | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
to hit David Cameron with his biggest revolt yet. I think more | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
like 80. The Lib Dems are spitting feathers. They are saying, we have | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
had to march through the lobbies on things we don't like, now you have | :36:01. | :36:09. | |
got to do it on this. It is a huge test. The Lib Dems are saying | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
uncharted territory. Is it a leadership problem for David | :36:14. | :36:20. | |
Cameron if he cannot deliver his MPs through these division lobbies? | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
It is a basic issue of maths. If 100 people are rebelling, you have | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
five or six parliamentary aides, which I think is towards the Top | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
End, if he cannot maintain their discipline then yes, he has a | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
problem. Some Tory MPs saying last week Liam Fox giving a big speech | :36:40. | :36:50. | |
:36:50. | :36:51. | ||
on Europe, David Davis batting hard on her Lords reform. One to banking. | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
We have heard Ed Miliband make his speech on proposals to improve the | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
culture within banking but how easy is it for Ed Miliband to take the | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
moral high ground when Labour has to take responsibility for what | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
when it on in the past? He does take responsibility for what | :37:08. | :37:15. | |
happened in the past. The when Ed Miliband gave us his conference | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
speech last autumn about predatory capitalism, none of us had a clue | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
what he was talking about. We certainly have an idea now. It | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
seems that Ed Miliband has once again been ahead of the game. He | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
spoke last year about the squeezed middle. We did not know what he was | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
talking about until we got our winter fuel bills. George Osborne | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
is delighted, this is the second week that we have started a Monday | :37:44. | :37:51. | |
not talking about the Budget, and he is using the Libor rate fixing | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
scandal as the club to beat the Labour Party with. This cuts | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
through to 2015. This is about George Osborne saying, you cannot | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
trust these guys with the banks and the economy, this is what they did | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
the last time. Ed Miliband is hitting back and saying, I am the | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
guy with a vision on how to deliver responsible capitalism and banking. | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
It is fascinating stuff. We will hear from Paul Tucker this | :38:19. | :38:28. | |
afternoon. Would it be revealing? If you listen to what some of the | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
Treasury Select Committee members have been saying, probably not! We | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
are useless at getting to the bottom of these things. The one | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
question people want answered is, who were these Whitehall figures | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
talking to Bob Diamond and the bankers about lowering Libor? | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
know who has denied it. But is it this legitimate, let's try and get | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
Libor down to help British business in the crash? In which case that is | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
probably illegitimate. But these are questions we do not know the | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
answers to and hopefully we will get to the bottom of them. If not, | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
maybe it will be down to the parliamentary inquiry. One of the | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
issues that is deemed huge in terms of the future planning his social | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
care. Labour sources have said there have been no cross-party | :39:18. | :39:26. | |
talks since February, which I've found astounding. How do we pay for | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
care? The issue of our age. There have been reports about this, the | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
idea that social care should be capped at �35,000 over a lifetime. | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
We would all take out insurance against to pay for that. The | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
government agrees in principle with this but it is not putting any cash | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
forward. It would cost 1.7 billion to set this up. There is no money. | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
They say they will look at this again in 2014. Labour are cross | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
because they were not included in talks to come up with this plan. We | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
will have a ding-dong, but nothing is going to happen this side of an | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
election on that. Thank you both. Joining me for the rest of the | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
programme are the Conservative MP, Jessica Lee, Liberal Democrat MP, | :40:17. | :40:26. | |
Martin Horwood, and Jenny Chapman for Labour. Welcome. Jessica, we | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
heard Creek raising the point from your colleagues that their | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
politicians on the Treasury Select Committee are useless at holding | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
bankers to a count. Andrea has done a fantastic job on the Treasury | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
Select Committee. She is in force to be reckoned with. I think we are | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
all waiting to see the evidence of the Select Committee and see how it | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
pans out but I think this whole issue about the bankers, the | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
reality has hit us all and we are now in the starting position. We | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
need to move things forward and bring shame sh. But on the point | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
that perhaps they did not go far enough, why not have a judge | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
inquiry if people feel that politicians are not doing their job | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
probably? We do not need a judicial inquiry. We need to politicians to | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
get to grips. We need a joint inquiry with in parliament. It | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
doesn't stop any investigations being done separately, that can | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
continue in terms of criminal matters. But this is something that | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
should be dealt with within the Houses of Parliament. Paul Tucker, | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
a former deputy of the Bank of England, coming forward. The point | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
that Labour has made is that what we need is not a panel of MPs | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
asking these questions, we need people who are properly trained and | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
qualified. What would you like to hear him say? Labour wants to see a | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
proper inquiry into banking led by a judge and it is not for me to | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
suggest what those questions should be. Ed Miliband has set out today | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
what he would like to see with banking. He wants to see more | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
diversity on the high street. If you look back ten years, there was | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
a multiplicity of banks in the country. There were building | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
societies in every town. We need to give consumers more choice and work | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
out how we get from where we are now two will meet to be. Was it a | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
defining watching George Osborne and Ed Balls going fought each | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
other in parliament? particularly edifying, no, but that | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
is what you get. People are angry about this and that lays out in the | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
Commons chamber and there is nothing wrong with that. | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
questions the Bank of England have to answer. The first, with that | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
they were giving some kind of nod and wink to the Libor process, | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
which is supposed to be a purely mechanical process, or was | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
something fishy going on? If they thought something fishy was going | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
on, why don't they do something about it? It is a test for Ed | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
Balls's light touch regulation regime. This is why we need a | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
Banking Reform Bill and why we need to get much tougher on regulating | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
activities of the banks to make sure this does not happen again. | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
The test last week in that debate was for George Osborne to back up | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
the allegations he was making about Ed Balls and he absolutely failed | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
to do that, and that is why the debate was so bad tempered. | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
Balls was the banking minister at the time. I think part of the | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
lack of acknowledgement, I think, by the Labour Party... Although Ed | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
Miliband has said this morning. am talking about last week. I am | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
talking about today. Part of this frustration is that at times people | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
need to stand up and say, we do get that wrong, we need to take | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
responsibility. That was part of the issue. But do you give credit | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
to Ed Miliband for doing that today? I have no difficulty with Ed | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
Miliband saying that today but it is long overdue. What about Bob | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
Diamond? He should get as little as possible. He has brought the whole | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
industry into disrepute. The eye D he should be rewarded with more | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
than �20 million of shareholders' money is obscene -- the idea. | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
was not in breach of his contract and did build up one of the most | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
successful investment banks. Define success. I am not sure boxes looks | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
like a successful banker right now. -- Barclays looks like. This is | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
something we have to look at. Vince Cable has been very clear. Lib Dems | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
have been talking about this... Working out the mechanics of this | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
are quite complicated. We have been telling banks to become more | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
secured through the mechanics of how you force them to do what they | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
need to do, to lend to small businesses, the engine of recovery, | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
we need to do more on this. fascinating thing is that Vince | :45:24. | :45:31. | |
Cable is outraged by Bob Diamond's bonuses but is unable to do a | :45:31. | :45:37. | |
single thing about it. That is the proper. We have had two years, you | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
had 13 and you didn't manage to do anything. What Ed Miliband is | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
saying today... Vince Cable, I am sure, will come up with stronger | :45:47. | :45:57. | |
:45:57. | :45:59. | ||
Why have these cross-party talks failed? That is a question for | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
Andrew Lansley. Labour is very, very happy to engage in these talks, | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
if the door is wide open. What the Labour Party does not want is a | :46:08. | :46:17. | |
political row about this. We cannot afford to mess about, because there | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
has been in action on this issue for many, many years. It is a key | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
issue for all of us. We all have ageing relatives. We are all going | :46:26. | :46:34. | |
to be old ourselves. It concerns everybody in the country. I welcome | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
what comes this week, I think the coalition government have done a | :46:39. | :46:49. | |
:46:49. | :46:49. | ||
huge amount to move this issue on. How have they moved it on? If you | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
look at who has led with this issue in House of Commons, it is clearly | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
the Conservative Party, supported by the Liberal Democrats on this | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
point. It is the Conservatives who have been leading the debates in | :47:04. | :47:11. | |
the House of Commons. And we have now got agreement... The main thing | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
in the Dilnot report was the idea of a cap on the amount any | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
individual should pay towards his or her own care, do you agree with | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
that? I want to see how the debate pans out. On a personal level, this | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
is one of the most important issues we're going to have to deal within | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
this entire parliament. I don't know the why those cross-party | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
talks, if that is right, have not been going ahead, but I hope there | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
can be some progress on this. have they not? Everybody comes on | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
to this programme and says it is the biggest problem facing society, | :47:45. | :47:54. | |
and yet we have not managed to get agreement on one single proposal? | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
The most bizarre thing is that of course we have actually got a | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
proposal from Dilnot. It could be the money attached to this. Who | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
knows where the logjam has happened? All I know is that the | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
Lib Dem minister involved in this is deeply committed to finding a | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
way to progress on the reform and the funding of social care. It is | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
something he campaigned passionately about in opposition, | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
so he must be as frustrated as everybody. There is a log jam with | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
money, isn't there? Honestly, do you think the politicians will be | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
able to agree, when they are so concerned with making savings and | :48:32. | :48:39. | |
deficit reduction? I suppose in the end, if there are fundamental | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
disagreement between the political parties, then it may be something | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
which has to wait for the 2015 election. The Liberal Democrats | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
would probably be happy to say that this would be something they would | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
be happy to see funded to taxation. But I think we should just give the | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
cross-party attempt a bit more time, to see if we can get a solution. | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
is not about whether we pay for it or not, it is how it is paid for. | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
This has got to be paid for, it is how we do it. Before the last | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
election, the Labour Party made a proposal on how it might be done, | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
and got its fingers badly burned, the Tories Corder to death tax. We | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
have got to get well away from this territory. -- the Tories called it | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
a death tax. We have taken a few knocks already in the last two | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
years, and Salomon anything in the next week or so will threaten the | :49:35. | :49:44. | |
coalition. -- and I don't think anything in the next week or so. | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
might just have to use up the summer holidays to discuss House of | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
Lords reform, it is a bizarre way to spend your time, though. This is | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
not the most important thing on the Government's agenda. It seems to be | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
quite important. It is important to us, we have gained -- we have been | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
campaigning for it for 100 years. But that is why a programme motion | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
which threatens to blow everything else out of the way, and spend | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
endless amounts of time discussing Lords reform, it seems a bit out of | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
proportion. So, you're saying that they should be worrying about the | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
boundary review? It is dangerous to get into this tit-for-tat politics. | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
The point is, a deal is a deal. It was in the coalition agreement, it | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
was in the Tory manifesto. It is clearly a bit of a test of David | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
Cameron's leadership that he can deliver members of his own party, | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
on this matter. It is a test of David Cameron's leadership? I think | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
it is a test of lots of things over the next few days, including how is, | :50:52. | :50:59. | |
as a country, have our second chamber. I think it is going to be | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
quite a fascinating period. will you vote? I am voting with the | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
Government, I have always been in favour of House of Lords reform, | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
quarter to consistent on that. It has been said a lot, but it is true, | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
this has been lined up for more than 100 years. I think we have a | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
genuine opportunity here to improve our second chamber. Any message for | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
rebels in your party? I would say, there are some people who have had | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
passionate views strongly against reform for many years, and I | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
respect their position. But I think if other people are more concerned | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
about specific details, I'm sure they will take the opportunity to | :51:41. | :51:51. | |
:51:51. | :51:54. | ||
discuss that with their whip. was very subtly put! We have heard | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
from some of your colleagues, saying they're going to vote | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
against, in other words, they could talk and talk about Lords reform, | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
but it might block up other legislation. A our position is very | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
simple. We think 10 days is not enough. It is not a complicated | :52:10. | :52:20. | |
:52:20. | :52:22. | ||
position. We have had years. That is exactly the point. Suddenly, the | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
Government wants to settle this within 10 days. 10 days! It is not, | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
it has been months, with the review, the commission, people know that. | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
If the Government feels confident about this, which I would question, | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
to win the argument in parliament, it needs more than 10 days. It was | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
-- if it was confident to win this without using the whip in the | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
lobbies, then it would give it more than 10 days. Labour is the party | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
off Kier Hardie, Clement Atlee and John Smith, so the idea that they | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
are going to effectively sabotaged a reform of the House of Lords, and | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
effectively to end hereditary peerage, would be bizarre. I'm sure | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
there will be talent to debate it on this programme anyway. Let's | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
find out the answer to our quiz. The question was, what is the | :53:17. | :53:27. | |
:53:27. | :53:28. | ||
official beer of the 2012 London Olympics? What is the correct | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
answer? Heineken. Well done. I have to say, that's very good. Does it | :53:35. | :53:43. | |
matter, what the official beer is of the Olympics? It is not ideal. | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
But I would say, this country, we are having a spectacular year with | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
the Jubilee, the Olympics is another opportunity to showcase our | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
talent to the entire planet, and I think there will be many | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
opportunities for many British companies. In Derbyshire, we have a | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
real growth in micro-breweries at the moment, in my constituency. And | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
I genuinely think this is a fantastic opportunity for the | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
country.. And the brand of the beer does not matter? It is not ideal, | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
but it is not the most important thing in the world. It kind of | :54:20. | :54:29. | |
matters, I would prefer it if it was a beer from Cheltenham. I'm | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
afraid these big sponsorship deals are crucial to the Games. I am | :54:33. | :54:41. | |
pretty cross that the French state is the official electricity | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
supplier, we do not have to be heavy about every single dodge deal | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
to accept that these are important to the Games. We do not have to | :54:48. | :54:56. | |
drink it. I don't think you're allowed to bring your own, actually. | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
What is the official water?! What about you? I think it matters a | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
huge amounts. Beer is part of Britishness. This is not the best | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
product, I would say. And I have found out it is going to be sold at | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
�4.24 a 330 ml bottle.. How much is it normally? A lot less than that. | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
I think it is a shame that families will be getting ripped off when | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
they go to these games. They will not have a choice about what they | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
can buy, and it is being sold at very high prices. There is the | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
point about it having to be a big company to be able to pay that kind | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
of sponsorship deal? That is the sad thing about brewing in this | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
country, then, isn't it? We have got some great businesses here, | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
making fantastic products, great breweries, and it is just a shame, | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
I think. If you had a choice, apart from your Cheltenham one, which one | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
would it be? It would be a mixture from our micro-breweries in | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
Derbyshire. We will come back to you on that one! We all know that | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
political exchanges can get a bit heated, with the occasional raised | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
voices. Even the odd bout of fisticuffs. But have you ever seen | :56:20. | :56:30. | |
:56:30. | :57:03. | ||
-- have you ever seen anything like I like the way they have bleeped it, | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
because none of us can understand what the swearwords were. None of | :57:07. | :57:14. | |
you aren't, are you? I left the firearms at home today. Were you | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
shocked by that? A little. Maybe they were discussing the reform of | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
the Jordanian parliament. Nothing like that has ever happened yet on | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
The Daily Politics. Have you ever lost your temper on live TV? No, I | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
have not, no. No cause to, not yet. But what makes you really angry? | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
Has there been a debate or a subject which has really got you | :57:39. | :57:46. | |
going? I did once walkout on Yvette Cooper during a Westminster debate. | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
We were discussing Labour's regional strategies, and she was | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
basically saying that the local consultations did not matter. So I | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
thought, in that case, no point staying. I stomped out, which was | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
silly, really. When I go to primary schools, I do say, I think your | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
behaviour policy is much better than the House of Commons. I think | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
the shouting and jury in the House of Commons does a lot of damage. It | :58:11. | :58:21. | |
:58:21. | :58:22. | ||
is much better if people can keep a lid on their tempers. -- shouting | :58:22. | :58:30. | |
and jeering. Everybody sees PMQs at home, but we know that there is a | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
huge amounts to a cross-party work, select committee work. Of course | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
there are disagreements, but actually, the things that get me | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
going in life, it is not disagreements on policy or ideas, | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
it is all to do with people who are bad manners or -- bad-mannered or | :58:46. | :58:51. |