17/07/2012 Daily Politics


17/07/2012

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Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. Just ten days to go

:00:47.:00:50.

to the greatest show on earth! But big questions still remain about

:00:50.:00:52.

the security arrangements for the Olympic Games. The chief executive

:00:52.:00:56.

of G4S is about to start answering questions from MPs. He could be in

:00:56.:00:59.

for a rough ride after his firm admitted they had failed to recruit

:00:59.:01:02.

enough security staff. But ministers warn that now is not the

:01:02.:01:06.

time for a witch hunt. Could the Olympics provide the shot in the

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arm that the British economy needs? The Government hopes it will but

:01:09.:01:13.

new data shows the economy is still struggling to get back on track.

:01:13.:01:16.

Can the coalition last until 2015? Can Ed Miliband move further ahead

:01:16.:01:21.

in the polls? It is the end of term, so we will be putting these

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questions and more to three of Westminster's big hitters. And,

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what do members of the political elite like to read on their

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holidays? We'll be talking to the man who has drawn up the definitive

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reading list for MPs. All that in the next hour. The final hour of

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the Daily Politics until September. Yes, we're getting ready for a

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fantastic British summer: We are predicting endless sunshine, Team

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GB will be topping the medal table, and the economy will return to

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robust growth. Hold on, that can't be right! Anyway, maybe our panel

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of MPs today can offer some slightly better predictions for

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what is in store as we head in to the summer recess. They are the

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Culture Minister, Ed Vaizey, the Deputy Leader of the Liberal

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Democrats, Simon Hughes, and the Shadow Energy Secretary, Caroline

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Flint. Welcome to you all. I guess we should fire the starting gun by

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talking about the Olympics. With only ten days to go, serious

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questions are being asked about the security arrangements for the Games.

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The chief executive of G4S is just starting to give evidence to the

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Home Affairs Select Committee. He's answering questions from MPs after

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it emerged that his company had failed to recruit enough security

:02:30.:02:36.

personnel. We'll bring you a bit of what he says later in the show.

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First though, the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, says the row over

:02:40.:02:49.
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G4S won't compromise security. is a problem that is being rapidly

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sorted out. The difficulties really got going round about the turn of

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the year when we had to double up on the number of security guards.

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It was always expected the Army would come and we would have the

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large military contingent. My information is they're working very

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well with G4S and they are delivering the safe security

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service. Well, the Home Secretary, Theresa May, was called to the

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Commons yesterday to answer an urgent question about all this. She

:03:24.:03:27.

started by responding to a series of media allegations made about the

:03:27.:03:36.

G4S row. First it was reported that ministers knew there would be a

:03:36.:03:42.

shortfall in security staff last year. This is untrue. HMI see

:03:42.:03:48.

reported at my request of LOCOG security preparations last

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September. He reported again in February and reported that LOCOG

:03:52.:03:58.

had plans in place to deliver the required number of security

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personnel. No specific problems were identified with G4S scheduling.

:04:04.:04:07.

No minister for crime and security attended meetings in which he was

:04:07.:04:13.

told there was a security staff shortage. G4S repeatedly assured us

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they would overshoot their targets. They have failed to deliver their

:04:18.:04:23.

contractual obligations. We have the finest military personnel in

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the world. Troops who are willing, ready and able to stepping reckon

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she calls. We can be sure of their professionalism in delivering a

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safe and secure Olympic Games. Every mum once the Games to be an

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outstanding success. -- everyone. We need things back on track after

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the shambles. Can the Home Secretary tellers how many people

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she expects G4S to provide? -- tell us. They say it will be 13,000.

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Based say the vast majority are still in process. -- they save. The

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Deputy Mayor said, the issue was flagged up repeatedly by both the

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NPA and the mayor's office for more than a year, two G4S directly, the

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Olympic Security Board and the Home Office. They have been discussing

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the short for for nine days. Last Monday, the Home Secretary told her

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she was confident our partners will deliver. -- short ball. It is

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incomprehensible that monitoring was that poor that no one told her

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until Wednesday. How on earth could the Minister responsible for

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delivering a Olympics security be the only person not to know? I have

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explained week commissioned reports into their preparedness. They

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contained recommendations which were acted on. Subject to acting on

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those recommendations, it was on track to deliver security personnel.

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Last Wednesday, G4S told us they would be unable to deliver their

:06:09.:06:19.
:06:19.:06:20.

obligations. That was Theresa May asking questions. Ed Vaizey, it all

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seems to come down to timing. Is it conceivable that Theresa May only

:06:25.:06:30.

really knew there was a problem last Wednesday? One can examine the

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timings. We need a safe and secure Olympic Games. Theresa May and

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LOCOG have made a decision to bring in defence personnel. That is in

:06:40.:06:48.

order to deliver a safe and secure Olympic Games. With all the

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contingencies for the Olympic Games, there are contingencies in place.

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You keep monitoring developments as we approach them. You wait. You say,

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there might be a problem here. You only call on your contingency when

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it gets to a point way you might need to. There will always be

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defence personnel helping the Olympics. We have just called in it

:07:17.:07:23.

additional personnel. It still does not answer the question where

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Yvette Cooper says it is incomprehensible that Theresa May

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only knew there was a problem last Wednesday. A senior member of the

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Olympic Security Board was told about this. The question is, at

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what time to call on the contingency? The problem is such

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that now is the time to call it in. The problem is now of a nature way

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you need to call on the contingency. I understand what you are saying.

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The key point is that on Wednesday the decision was made. It you have

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answered that marvellously and comprehensively. People should have

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known about this if there were concerns last year and the

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Government was doing its job properly. If it was monitoring the

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progress of how many people were being recruited, we would not have

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been in this position. It depends on what G4S were telling the

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Government and organising committee. They are the second largest company

:08:26.:08:32.

in the world - the largest security company in the world. They have one

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in 10 of the contracts. They should be able to do with good job. They

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are a reasonable contract had to deliver. I know from constituents

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and others they do not always do a good job. The really crucial issue

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is that the Government right fully, it would not have mattered if it

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were the Labour government or a coalition government, takes action

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to employ it extra people. You are saying the Home Office basically

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can put its feet up. Let's answer the question. Theresa May regularly

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asked the questions and was given information. It seems to me that

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first and foremost, thank goodness for the police and troops who are

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going to step in. A number of troops are coming back from

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Afghanistan. They will step in. They will do there. We are told by

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the Home Office and Theresa May they were reassured. I wonder if

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they were asking the right questions. What I would have asked

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about is, how many people have you got on the books out of the total?

:09:46.:09:51.

How many people have turned up for the training to carry out the

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security job? In some cases, only 50% of people were turning up for

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training. For something as big as this commit you would have a team

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of people acting out what would be the scenarios in terms of things

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going wrong. You need to ask specifics. It seems Theresa May was

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not asking specifics. I was not there and did not see the questions

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that were asked. Ministers and officials and the organising

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committee would regularly have asked these questions. You cannot

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imagine he was not passed on a regular basis how many people had

:10:34.:10:44.
:10:44.:10:44.

come to recruitment, a clearance... My judgment is that they did not

:10:44.:10:51.

tell the truth about what was going on. That is fair enough. They

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waited till the very last minute to say, I am sorry, we cannot do it.

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If you ask the questions and those are the answers you get. BBC Surrey

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understands that only 20 G4S staff turned up when 300 where rigid

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contracted for various duties. Parties according to the Police

:11:15.:11:25.
:11:25.:11:27.

Federation in Surrey. -- were originally contracted. It is worth

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saying that we have taken this decision in the interests of the

:11:31.:11:38.

security of the Games. It was taken in order to secure the Games. The

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contingency was in place. You have a contingency because if things go

:11:45.:11:53.

wrong, you can correct that. We can talk about who knew what. One of

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the key problems was the software used by G4S to Schedule the

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appearance of security guards. That is where the problem started. You

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move along this process and the closer to Olympics you get, when it

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comes to a point when it is essential to make the games safe

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and secure of, you take that decision. All of us, whatever our

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politics, support the most fantastic project. It is, for

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London, the most fantastic thing probably we will ever get in our

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lifetimes. The Army and the police will step in and do us proud.

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sure. Well, if the Government was hoping the Olympics would be a

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distraction from the wider problems of the economy, they may be in for

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a rather nasty shock. Yesterday, the IMF downgraded the Britain's

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growth prospects saying that it would grow by just 0.2% this year

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and 1.4% in 2013. Back in the spring they had forecast the

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economy to grow by 0.8% this year and 2% in 2013. Because growth has

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fallen in the last two quarters Britain is currently in recession,

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although the Ernst and Young ITEM Club has forecast we will return to

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growth in the second half of the year. However they argue that

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because of the current recession, growth over the course of the year

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is expected to be zero. What is more, the National Institute for

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Economic and Social Research published figures last week showing

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that the UK is trapped in the longest slump in modern history,

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longer even than that of the 1930s. Today, however, the Government will

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point to light at the end of the tunnel. This morning's inflation

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figures show the Consumer Price Index falling to 2.4% in June, down

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from 2.8% in May and lower than most analysts had expected. With us

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now is Jonathan Portes from the National Institute of Economic and

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:13:54.:13:55.

Social Research. How concerned should be paid by this forecast?

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The IMF is bringing its forecast into line with those and others

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have had for some time. The economy is essentially flat. We are not

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really learning anything new. The economy has essentially been flat

:14:13.:14:19.

for the last 18 months. We have all speculated that would continue for

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some time. Why has recovery been so slow? The Government titled fiscal

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policy too fast. The IMF recognises that. Yesterday it said that an

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appropriate place of tightening would be at half the pace the

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Government did. Second of course, the wider economic environment -

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the global environment - has also been downbeat. People in the

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eurozone have made similar policy mistakes. We have also had a period

:14:56.:15:04.

of high oil prices. Really the deficit reduction plan has not been

:15:04.:15:10.

the right way to get recovery. IMF has downgraded forecasts for

:15:10.:15:15.

the whole eurozone. It has predicted Britain will grow faster

:15:15.:15:19.

than the eurozone. Some of the numbers are looking very good.

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Inflation has come down. It is hoped unemployment figures will be

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geared as well. We are creating private sector jobs. We are cutting

:15:30.:15:35.

income tax and corporation tax. There is a lot of good news going

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on in terms of the economy. We all know the global crisis. That is not

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what was said. The IMF has continually supported the deficit

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reduction plan. We are borrowing at around 1.7%. That is one of the

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lowest among developing countries. Let me put that back to Jonathan.

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That has been one thing the Government has shouted most loudly

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about. Our debt is affordable. We're not having to pay super high

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interest rates. That is what has kept Britain that lining but not to

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:16:28.:16:31.

It is very good news that we can borrow at low rates. We can now

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borrow at the lowest real interest rates in recorded economic history.

:16:35.:16:44.

We have a lot of unemployed people, and a housing shortage. It is not

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rocket science. Would that be a policy would support?

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Government yesterday announced a spending planned on railways. We

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start now, it is a five-year plan, and it is the most capital

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effective way of getting the economy going. There will be an

:17:03.:17:08.

announcement after the summer holidays on housing. Jonathan's

:17:08.:17:14.

main critique was that we were too tough in what we did in 2010. At

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the time, all the advice was that it you are not tough in the UK,

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you're likely to be having the same problems as your neighbours. That

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was wrong? No, that was the advice that other countries were going

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down the plughole. There have been some adverse consequences but we

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have been gradually pulling through. If we gradually begin to build, if

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we continue to see unemployment drop, keep inflation down as well,

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we will be in a much better place. But we were promised the deficit

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reduction plan, the cuts were going to create better outcomes and we

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have not seen that. Some of these decisions about improving railway

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lines were decisions taken by the last government. They were stopped

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and delayed, and now rehashed. Many of these will not happen until

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after the next general election, and this is what is worrying. We

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could repeat the tax, we could build more homes, and helped to get

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more unemployed people back into work.

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The Alistair Darling plan would not have deferred that much at the

:18:36.:18:41.

point we are at now, do you agree with that? The forecast before the

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election was to cut the deficit by a quarter by about now, and that is

:18:46.:18:51.

indeed what has happened. Unfortunately, part of that has

:18:51.:18:56.

been extra cuts matched by extra spending because of the

:18:56.:19:03.

consequences of this prolonged lack of recovery. Simon has got the

:19:03.:19:08.

economics quite wrong. People who understood the crisis, people like

:19:08.:19:13.

Martin Wolf, the economics editor of the Financial Times, they said

:19:13.:19:21.

quite clearly it was not sensible. Unfortunately there was the mistake

:19:21.:19:30.

the government made. If you put to economists in a room, you will get

:19:30.:19:38.

different opinions. Geoffrey Howe was attacked when he was

:19:38.:19:43.

implementing in the 1980s. But the government promised recovery and

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that it would wipe out the deficit and it hasn't been able to do that.

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Businesses can't get money... have announced investment in rail

:19:54.:19:58.

infrastructure, we will be announcing housing programmes in

:19:58.:20:04.

the autumn, there is a lot going on. Jonathan is perfectly entitled to

:20:04.:20:12.

come here and spout his own political philosophy, but to say

:20:12.:20:17.

there is ridiculous. You have to look at the facts. Hang on a second,

:20:17.:20:24.

you have had your say. Britain is the only advanced economy to see a

:20:24.:20:30.

major down provision since the spring. You know that part of the

:20:30.:20:34.

effect on our economic recovery is that the eurozone is in recession,

:20:34.:20:39.

we trade with Europe. We have seen China's growth figures coming down,

:20:39.:20:44.

bad figures for the United States. We have a recession made in Downing

:20:44.:20:54.
:20:54.:20:58.

Street. We have reassured the markets, infrastructure investment

:20:58.:21:03.

as well. The would it be so different under Labour? If you

:21:03.:21:10.

think about the Alistair Darling plan, it was also about cutting the

:21:10.:21:18.

deficit. Of course it was about cutting the deficit, we said we

:21:18.:21:23.

would cut it in half over the parliament. They made that choice,

:21:23.:21:26.

and in order to meet their choice they decided on an austerity

:21:26.:21:32.

programme which has sucked the life out of our economy. I know my own

:21:32.:21:36.

area of businesses who have got order books which are full, but

:21:36.:21:42.

they can't get loans from the banks to meet their orders. We have a

:21:42.:21:46.

million young people out of work, and the government also took the

:21:46.:21:51.

decision to delay and stopped what I would call some shove already

:21:51.:22:01.
:22:01.:22:04.

projects to go ahead to build jobs and growth. These will not be

:22:04.:22:11.

happening until after the next general election. Ed Vaizey...

:22:11.:22:16.

real scandal... The you are pointing at Simon Hughes, your

:22:16.:22:21.

coalition party. Is there a real risk to loosening fiscal policy

:22:21.:22:26.

now? You talked about the railways announcement, but something that is

:22:26.:22:33.

more immediate, spending money, the stimulus, wouldn't the Liberal

:22:33.:22:37.

Democrats support that? That is why you will hear an announcement in

:22:37.:22:44.

September to get the housing investment. We have seen the car

:22:44.:22:49.

industry producing a surplus of cars for the UK. The Government is

:22:49.:22:54.

clear that it is pulling every lever to do that. There is no

:22:54.:22:58.

complacency in any part of the country in the UK. We could have

:22:58.:23:03.

made a different judgment in 2010. No one would have predicted we

:23:03.:23:07.

would have such a difficult position. Growth has been slower

:23:07.:23:13.

but it is beginning to turn the corner. It sounds lovely, we look

:23:13.:23:17.

forward to the next few months. England and Wales is bigger than we

:23:17.:23:20.

thought. Well, the population is. According to the first set of

:23:20.:23:22.

results from last year's census, which were released yesterday,

:23:22.:23:25.

there are 56.1 million people living here now. That's an increase

:23:25.:23:28.

of 7% in the last ten years. And the Office for National Statistics

:23:28.:23:31.

say that more than half of the increase is down to immigration,

:23:31.:23:35.

which has sparked a fresh round of debate about the subject. A debate

:23:35.:23:42.

that Adam is going to carry on out on College Green. We have some big

:23:42.:23:50.

numbers to chew over this afternoon. We have a representative from the

:23:50.:23:54.

Campaign Group, migration watch. This will come as no surprise to

:23:54.:24:01.

you, these numbers? It didn't. If anything, they were larger than we

:24:01.:24:07.

thought they would be. The problem is not just the numbers, it is the

:24:07.:24:12.

fact that we are over the next 15 years going to be adding 5 million

:24:12.:24:17.

plus people to the population, that means needed and the facilities you

:24:17.:24:27.
:24:27.:24:28.

will find in the big cities. Are we planning for that? I don't think so.

:24:28.:24:30.

Have these new figures really changed the debate at all? It

:24:30.:24:35.

sounds like it hasn't. It is a big number, and it will take a real

:24:35.:24:42.

effort in terms of planning and so on. The rate of growth is the same

:24:42.:24:46.

it has been throughout our history. Secondly, if you look at different

:24:46.:24:53.

parts of the country and, the picture is very different. If you

:24:53.:24:57.

look at the north, they face the very different challenge is to the

:24:57.:25:02.

south. We should not start by thinking a growing population is a

:25:02.:25:08.

bad thing. More people paying more taxes. That is a good thing. If you

:25:08.:25:12.

look at the countries whose population is shrinking, they are

:25:12.:25:18.

worried about that. To the problem is not the number, just the spread?

:25:18.:25:24.

A no, it is the numbers. If you look at immigration numbers, that

:25:24.:25:28.

is totally unprecedented. We are talking about a quarter of a

:25:28.:25:33.

million net, that has never happened before. Of course

:25:33.:25:37.

immigration is great, but not at this sort of level where you have

:25:37.:25:45.

got to think about jobs, housing, services, roads. What happened

:25:45.:25:47.

yesterday in the south-east with the chock-a-block roads, you had

:25:47.:25:52.

better get used to that. That wasn't because if immigration.

:25:52.:25:58.

Exactly, we had a massive number at one time. If you get the sort of

:25:59.:26:03.

immigration we have been getting over the last 15 years, that is

:26:03.:26:07.

what you will face every day without the Olympics. Matthew, your

:26:07.:26:17.
:26:17.:26:20.

case got helped by the report showing what would happen is

:26:20.:26:24.

migration stopped altogether. extra workers in the economy,

:26:25.:26:31.

whether they are born abroad or here, will obviously help. Some

:26:32.:26:36.

will say that those immigrants get older, so it is not a long-term

:26:36.:26:41.

solution. That is right, but in the short term we are agreed our

:26:41.:26:46.

priority is getting down the deficit, so is now the time to be

:26:46.:26:51.

cutting down on extra workers from abroad? I'm sure you'll agree, it

:26:51.:26:58.

is a bit mad we have to wait for such a long time to find out how

:26:58.:27:03.

big the population is. That's right, but we have been saying all along

:27:03.:27:08.

these are the numbers we can get, so you can project and you can't

:27:08.:27:14.

plan for it. What has not happened so far is that planning. It is all

:27:14.:27:18.

very well to say people will generate activity in the economy,

:27:18.:27:23.

that is a good thing, of course it is, but on the other hand we have

:27:23.:27:29.

unemployment rates at the moment of over 2 million unemployed, youth

:27:29.:27:36.

unemployment running at 20%. Is this the time to be saying yes, we

:27:36.:27:41.

need even more immigration? I don't think so. Another interesting fact

:27:41.:27:46.

that came out of the census data released yesterday is that the UK

:27:46.:27:51.

is the third most densely populated country in the EU after mortar and

:27:51.:28:00.

the Netherlands. -- Malta. For some in Government

:28:00.:28:02.

the summer break probably hasn't come round quickly enough...

:28:02.:28:04.

Economic woes, coalition in- fighting, Labour ahead in the polls,

:28:04.:28:08.

and of course that Olympic security headache. So how did we get here?

:28:08.:28:11.

Giles has been looking back over the last few months. They say a

:28:11.:28:14.

week is a long time in politics so the last few months have seen an

:28:14.:28:19.

age. Storm clouds have gathered, tectonic plates have been shifting.

:28:19.:28:24.

A few months ago, something Labour were concerned about their man at

:28:24.:28:28.

the top. The coalition have forced through tricky health reforms,

:28:28.:28:33.

getting on with government, but basically the ship of state seemed

:28:33.:28:38.

on keel. Today there was a quiet confidence in Labour. Recent pm

:28:38.:28:45.

queues performances have a more relaxed Ed Miliband, a more

:28:45.:28:53.

irritable Prime Minister. This is not have -- not just the rise of

:28:53.:28:58.

Labour. The coalition has gone off course. It is OK to take wise

:28:58.:29:02.

choices if you are competent, give the impression you are not and

:29:02.:29:07.

people will change their minds. They are arrogant posh boys who

:29:07.:29:12.

show no remorse, no contrition no passion to one to understand other

:29:12.:29:21.

people's lives. That Budget - if he had known, and why didn't he know?

:29:21.:29:30.

Asked his opponents, would he have smiled so what? It is one thing

:29:30.:29:37.

cooking up tax breaks, but then spending weeks you turning on

:29:37.:29:43.

pastis and fuel. Where had a collective discussion... That sort

:29:43.:29:48.

of thing burns holes in your credibility. Four weeks on from the

:29:48.:29:53.

Budget, even people in Downing Street are calling it a shambles

:29:53.:30:03.
:30:03.:30:06.

budget. Add to that, a horse, Rebecca, Andy Coulson... Though

:30:06.:30:11.

most are more concerned about the lack of money than Leveson, it

:30:11.:30:15.

hasn't helped. The banking crisis and the Barclays scandal have seen

:30:15.:30:19.

bitter exchanges with each side keen to destroy the economic

:30:19.:30:25.

reputation of the other, descending into a personal boxing match.

:30:25.:30:29.

has impugned my integrity. Coalitions have tension, it is not

:30:29.:30:33.

new, but having lost the referendum, Nick Clegg has put his finger on

:30:34.:30:43.
:30:44.:30:46.

what he wants more than anyone - I also know there will be those who

:30:46.:30:50.

are not interested in rational discussion, opposing whatever

:30:51.:30:57.

reform in whatever century. wranglings have left a chasm

:30:57.:31:06.

between right-wingers and grassrootss -- grassroots Lib Dems.

:31:06.:31:15.

On both sides there would be far less to benefit. Joining us now is

:31:15.:31:20.

the Sun's political commentator. What is urinalysis of the

:31:20.:31:26.

difficulties facing David Cameron? They seem to come on every front -

:31:26.:31:33.

the coalition, George Osborne, the budget, the economy, Europe - and

:31:33.:31:39.

it is immigration. I am not sure he has the answer to any of those to

:31:39.:31:44.

satisfy the voters. You have suggested that getting rid of

:31:44.:31:49.

George Osborne as Chancellor would help. Isn't he one of the stars of

:31:49.:31:53.

the Government and the right hand man to David Cameron? I am not

:31:53.:31:58.

saying he should go. I am saying he should be required to concentrate

:31:58.:32:05.

on one of ah job only. He needs to be the full-time Chancellor. -- one

:32:05.:32:13.

job only. He is also spending a lot of time politicking. He is

:32:13.:32:19.

combining the two when it comes to attacking Ed Balls, in my view, in

:32:19.:32:25.

a way that backfired on him. The budget was a car crash. They spent

:32:25.:32:29.

the next several weeks doing U- turns to try to get away from the

:32:29.:32:34.

brick wall. Either he has to concentrate on one job or find

:32:34.:32:40.

another job. Should he focus on being Chancellor rather than also

:32:40.:32:46.

being a strategic mind within the Government? That label from Labour,

:32:46.:32:50.

Ed Miliband, the part-time Chancellor, has stuck. George

:32:50.:32:56.

Osborne is a very successful Chancellor. He is brilliant. Every

:32:56.:33:03.

senior politician in the coalition is also a political strategist.

:33:03.:33:10.

in any way that George Osborne is. Other Cabinet ministers will

:33:10.:33:16.

contribute. George Osborne is a consummate politician. It is a myth.

:33:16.:33:23.

I do not know where it comes from. The Budget was a success.

:33:24.:33:29.

amount of time he puts in is a factor. The Budget was a success,

:33:30.:33:35.

the U-turns that came afterwards. Let's take it as a whole. It has

:33:35.:33:40.

been very successful. We have done a great many things to put the

:33:40.:33:45.

economy back on track. There is nothing wrong with the Budget, it

:33:45.:33:52.

is the handling of it. The U-turn is that followed it were

:33:52.:33:58.

unnecessary. They were not carefully thought through. When

:33:58.:34:04.

negotiation for U-turn took place, it was bungled. They were

:34:04.:34:10.

constantly in reverse. The point is, the opinion polls by Andrew Cooper

:34:10.:34:15.

show all the things I have been saying. Why don't you just face the

:34:15.:34:25.
:34:25.:34:25.

facts? In an opinion poll today, Conservative support went up.

:34:26.:34:33.

has plunged. That cannot be good, however much you dress it up.

:34:33.:34:38.

are in the middle of a government during an extremely difficult

:34:38.:34:44.

economic period. You do not expect the normal rules. Certain Neath

:34:44.:34:51.

they want to change. That is fine. What about your prognosis?

:34:51.:34:56.

coalition depends not on David Cameron and Nick Clegg, it depends

:34:56.:35:01.

on their troops. What to have been the ranks of the Conservative Party

:35:01.:35:07.

is a lot of unhappiness. -- you have. When Graham Brady has his

:35:07.:35:11.

finger on the pulse of all the views and thoughts of backbenchers

:35:11.:35:16.

and when he starts talking about the early demise of the coalition,

:35:16.:35:24.

I think it is in danger. Boris Johnson has said it is doomed to

:35:24.:35:30.

succeed. Is Lords reform dead in the water? I think so. If it is

:35:30.:35:34.

dead in the water, the Liberal Democrats were not get their way.

:35:34.:35:39.

Hardly any wonder that Nick Clegg feels somewhat lobotomised by the

:35:39.:35:46.

Government. I do not think he does. The budget fundamentally was very

:35:46.:35:51.

good. Pit tip poor people at attacks. What was frustrating is

:35:51.:35:58.

that we did try to persuade the Chancellor it was not a moment to

:35:58.:36:03.

talk about income-tax. I understand why it was turned in economic terms

:36:03.:36:10.

but politically it was a bad call. It was a coalition government

:36:10.:36:14.

budget. The coalition will stay for five years, that was the deal.

:36:14.:36:19.

Everything so far we have agreed has been delivered. Every issue

:36:19.:36:28.

that has come up, some have come from the Tory manifesto... It had

:36:28.:36:33.

338 majority. It was one of the larger second readings of any

:36:33.:36:39.

political reform bill ever. There has to be work done to get the

:36:39.:36:44.

Tories on board. They do have to deliver. The leadership of the Tory

:36:44.:36:48.

Party, from the Prime Minister down, understands that is part of the

:36:48.:36:54.

deal. Coming back as to whether people are willing to deliver Tory

:36:54.:36:57.

MPs, what do you say to the criticism that it was the wrong

:36:57.:37:03.

time to do that? I would not say it either in public or privately I

:37:03.:37:07.

disagreed with the top rate of tax. It is important that Britain sends

:37:07.:37:16.

the signal. Coalition partners did not agree. We argued the case and

:37:16.:37:21.

in the end you need to do a deal. lot of people were taking out of

:37:21.:37:28.

income tax. Treasure -- Trevor has criticised it but the fundamental

:37:28.:37:33.

approach has been delivered by a very effective Chancellor. He is

:37:33.:37:39.

fantastic for the UK economy and very well suspect -- respected

:37:39.:37:47.

abroad and internationally. Trevor Kavanagh does nothing kit will be

:37:47.:37:52.

delivered. The other day I had a conversation with George Osborne on

:37:52.:38:01.

this very subject. The reality is that, with seven changes, for

:38:01.:38:05.

example to protect the House of Commons and MPs from what is seen

:38:05.:38:10.

to be a threat by a second chamber, Tories can be reassured and it can

:38:10.:38:18.

be delivered. What about a liberal/Labour coalition? We have

:38:18.:38:22.

had the Liberal Democrat saying there will be some fracturing in

:38:23.:38:27.

the year before the election. You cannot rule out a coalition with

:38:27.:38:33.

Labour. The issue only arises at the next general election and

:38:33.:38:38.

afterwards. The coalition I want with Caroline and her colleagues

:38:38.:38:44.

progresses the Lords reforms I have been talking about. If Labour does

:38:44.:38:54.
:38:54.:38:54.

not do that, you can expect -- expect any possibility of coalition.

:38:54.:38:58.

One problem for the Government is that the public is confused about

:38:58.:39:02.

what the motivation of this government is and where it is going.

:39:03.:39:07.

Was to talk about the tax cuts, will sit to people in terms of

:39:07.:39:11.

income tax, we know that tax credits will reduce and money was

:39:11.:39:16.

given back to millionairess from tax cuts. We have unravelling from

:39:16.:39:20.

other issues. Discussion was about where people laugh. They are very

:39:20.:39:24.

worried about the future. A lot of people in work have had to take

:39:24.:39:29.

cuts in hours and pay has been frozen. The overall cost of living

:39:29.:39:35.

have gone up. They fear this government is not in touch with

:39:35.:39:39.

that. Whatever the positives about that, it was completely lost by all

:39:39.:39:44.

the other things going on that have affected, I think, the sense of

:39:44.:39:49.

what is his government about, is it in touch with daily lives by the

:39:49.:39:58.

public. When the cost of living and jobs are on the line, that is a

:39:58.:40:03.

worrying. Is the public convinced by Ed Miliband? In the last year, I

:40:03.:40:07.

think what we have seen is a situation develop where some of the

:40:07.:40:10.

things that Ed Miliband has said coming up to party conference

:40:10.:40:15.

season, he has talked about the squeezed middle, he was harangued

:40:16.:40:22.

over those issues. The sense of what he was tapping into, the

:40:22.:40:24.

concern has improvement in the mind of the public. We're getting a

:40:24.:40:28.

hearing now in the way we were not this time last year. Full credit to

:40:28.:40:36.

Ed Miliband for doing that. Thank you very much. Well, as we

:40:36.:40:38.

mentioned earlier, the chief executive of G4S, Nick Buckles, has

:40:38.:40:41.

been answering questions from MPs on the Home Affairs Select

:40:41.:40:44.

Committee. He is still being grilled, in fact, about the failure

:40:44.:40:46.

of G4S to recruit enough security staff for the Olympics. Let's

:40:46.:40:52.

listen to some of what he's been saying. Many will take the view the

:40:52.:40:58.

reputation of the company is in tatters. You would not agree.

:40:58.:41:03.

think, at the moment, I would have to agree with you. We have had a

:41:03.:41:07.

fantastic track record of service delivery over many years in many

:41:07.:41:12.

countries. Clearly this is not a good position to be in. We feel we

:41:12.:41:16.

have to make every endeavour to deliver as well as we can honour

:41:16.:41:22.

his contract. It is a humiliating shambles, isn't it? It is not where

:41:22.:41:28.

we want to be. It is a humiliating shambles for the company, yes or

:41:28.:41:34.

no? I cannot disagree with you. would not have thought he wrote.

:41:34.:41:44.
:41:44.:41:50.

You say you were notified, because you are overall boss, on 3rd July.

:41:50.:41:56.

You knew what was coming up. You knew very well - everyone the first

:41:56.:42:05.

and foremost when the Olympics where due to begin. How is it

:42:05.:42:09.

possible that all these problems accumulated and add to you, the

:42:09.:42:19.
:42:19.:42:19.

overall boss, was only told on 3rd July? -- and that you. Weren't you

:42:19.:42:23.

progress chasing? Weren't you asking constantly your colleagues

:42:24.:42:30.

what was happening? What world are you living in? Trying to explain

:42:30.:42:35.

the process we went through, we had a weekly monitoring process for

:42:35.:42:43.

both parties - very open - about the process. We started out with

:42:43.:42:49.

1000 people during June and we had to build up to 10,000 people for

:42:49.:42:56.

the Olympics. We had a massive pipeline of 20,000 people working

:42:57.:43:02.

towards July. It was about how many people we were getting ready. Not a

:43:02.:43:06.

case of having them on the ground and knowingly had a shortage. It

:43:06.:43:16.
:43:16.:43:17.

was about having an active pipeline. Simon Hughes, he said it and agreed,

:43:17.:43:25.

it is a humiliating shambles. They're the second largest security

:43:25.:43:32.

company in the world. There are lessons to be learned. The select

:43:32.:43:38.

committee system is doing the job it is now intended to do. You get

:43:38.:43:42.

parliamentarians of all parties. Later at the issues about public

:43:42.:43:46.

sector contracts for the private sector, and I think there are lots

:43:46.:43:50.

of questions about human rights of companies who governments engage,

:43:50.:43:56.

about whether they pay their taxes properly. I think a lot of them do

:43:56.:44:01.

not. There are a whole set of issues. Are they capable to

:44:01.:44:05.

deliver? The reality is we have a public sector that is always able

:44:05.:44:12.

to intervene when necessary in times of emergency. We have heard

:44:12.:44:15.

your big defence of the Government over this. Was it a mistake to give

:44:15.:44:23.

the entire security contractor G4S? We can deal with the fall-out of

:44:23.:44:28.

what the chief executive has described. With 20/20 hindsight,

:44:28.:44:35.

you can say what you like. At the time they got the contract, no one

:44:35.:44:43.

can say it was the wrong thing to do. It would strike me strange to

:44:43.:44:48.

have it with three or four companies. G4S should be a great

:44:48.:44:53.

success story. It grew out of Britain. You have a chief executive

:44:53.:44:59.

quite rightly eating humble pie about what happened. As I keep

:44:59.:45:03.

saying, the key is to deliver a safe Olympic Games. We know that.

:45:04.:45:08.

Should there be a cooling off period? Should they be allowed to

:45:08.:45:18.
:45:18.:45:23.

bid for other major public-sector Big black Francis Maude have done a

:45:23.:45:28.

good job, and I am sure they will have a view on the appropriate

:45:28.:45:35.

thing to do. I think it is too soon to say. The have got to deal with

:45:36.:45:41.

these things on the evidence, and that will not emerge for some time.

:45:41.:45:48.

I was speaking to Danny Alexander last night, about making sure where

:45:48.:45:52.

much more rigorous in how we deliver public sector procurement.

:45:52.:45:57.

We have not been tough enough. you agree with that, Caroline

:45:57.:46:02.

Flint? In terms of the public- sector, you are relieved we have

:46:02.:46:11.

one to stand in. Do you think there should be a cooling-off? I think

:46:11.:46:14.

what is important here is that we deal with the situation with them

:46:14.:46:19.

in regard to how they have dealt with the Olympics, and afterwards

:46:19.:46:24.

there will need to be some discussions about how what was

:46:24.:46:28.

monitored because there have been massive contract in many government

:46:28.:46:31.

departments. I don't think a company should have a limit on how

:46:31.:46:37.

many contracts it has, but is the rigour in how they can deliver

:46:37.:46:43.

these contracts? That will be a discussion that has to take place

:46:43.:46:49.

after we have had the most successful Olympics ever. There

:46:49.:46:59.
:46:59.:46:59.

will be lessons to learn across government procurement. There are

:46:59.:47:04.

some fantastic private sector examples of delivering contracts,

:47:04.:47:12.

but sometimes that is done at the expense of the public sector.

:47:13.:47:19.

you be happy for G4S to do the security at party conferences?

:47:19.:47:25.

Everybody will now... G4S will be doubly scrutinised by everybody,

:47:25.:47:29.

but the important principle is that government needs to improve the way

:47:29.:47:36.

it places its contracts and monitors them, which it is doing.

:47:36.:47:40.

MPs are busy getting ready for their summer holidays, were the

:47:40.:47:50.
:47:50.:48:07.

only tough decision will be what to read whilst lazing on the beach.

:48:07.:48:10.

For those who want to show off by the pool they can immerse

:48:10.:48:13.

themselves in all 736 pages of "The Passage to Power". This is volume

:48:13.:48:17.

four of Robert Caro's magnum opus on the life of Lyndon Johnson and

:48:17.:48:20.

certainly not for the faint hearted. Then there's "The New Few", written

:48:20.:48:23.

by Ferdinand Mount, who argues that power and wealth in Britain is held

:48:23.:48:26.

in the hands of a small elite ruling class. That's the same

:48:26.:48:29.

Ferdinand Mount who used to work for the Conservative Party and

:48:29.:48:34.

who's cousin is David Cameron's Mum. For those who are finding coalition

:48:34.:48:37.

politics a struggle Mr Simpson suggests reading "Five Days in

:48:37.:48:39.

London", a book that charts Winston Churchill's difficulties holding

:48:39.:48:42.

everything together in the dark days of 1940, and think themselves

:48:42.:48:44.

lucky. And for those who want something a little lighter they

:48:45.:48:47.

could try Sandra Howard's latest called "Ex Wives". The wife of

:48:47.:48:50.

Michael Howard has written a novel described as a "story of a

:48:50.:48:52.

complicated set of relationships and lovers which should interest

:48:53.:48:54.

many parliamentarians". Finally George Osborne's wife Frances

:48:54.:48:57.

Osborne has written a new book called "Park Lane", set at the

:48:57.:49:00.

beginning of the first world war it's a novel that deals with

:49:00.:49:03.

conflicts in the class system. I wonder where she gets her ideas

:49:03.:49:08.

from? Keith Simpson is with us now. 50 shades of grey is not on there,

:49:08.:49:14.

but we won't talk about that. quite happy to. My wife is reading

:49:14.:49:23.

that book she is quite bored by that. I am asking the questions, Ed

:49:23.:49:28.

Vaizey! Have you read for them? very large proportion of them.

:49:28.:49:32.

William Hague said to the foreign affairs team that they should be

:49:32.:49:39.

doing some summer reading about four years ago. A number of

:49:40.:49:44.

colleagues then said to me can you let us have them? I think it is a

:49:44.:49:52.

very nice idea. Most of them are political, aren't they? Yes, most

:49:52.:49:57.

on conflict, a few novels as you pointed out at the end. Should

:49:57.:50:02.

there be some more light and shade in there? Some novels away from

:50:02.:50:09.

politics? If people want to have the more lighter ones, that is fine.

:50:09.:50:13.

Most colleagues at some stage over the summer holidays tend to read

:50:13.:50:17.

one big heavy book of some kind because to be fair many of them

:50:18.:50:22.

don't have the time when Parliament is sitting. That has been the

:50:22.:50:28.

objective, to give people a whole series of books, some of which are

:50:28.:50:34.

perhaps relevant today. If the coalition things it has problems,

:50:34.:50:40.

think about what they were going through in the summer of 1940.

:50:40.:50:45.

Something you can draw comfort from then. This is wonderful, I have to

:50:45.:50:55.
:50:55.:50:57.

say. Are you giving it to the Lib Dems? I have won in a shiny cover.

:50:57.:51:03.

She gets a brown envelope! For most of the year, Arnside recess, you

:51:03.:51:08.

just don't have time. There are some colleagues who walk around

:51:08.:51:15.

with a book under their arm. Some of them do it! If you have a big

:51:15.:51:21.

heavy tome to read, what Linby? my stairs at home, I have about

:51:21.:51:27.

seven books waiting. I will take as many of those as I can. I want to

:51:27.:51:33.

read some books on Tibet and China, and about some struggles which are

:51:33.:51:43.
:51:43.:51:50.

much more worrying than ours. lined up, Ed Vaizey? Yes, the great

:51:50.:51:54.

thing about this book is it is beautifully written. He began

:51:54.:52:02.

writing it in the early 1980s, but he interview people then who are

:52:02.:52:06.

now dead, but using it for the later volumes. Caroline, do you

:52:06.:52:12.

have more time to read now that you are not the minister? I do get to

:52:12.:52:19.

read more in the recesses, but I do like to last thing at night the

:52:19.:52:25.

Reading, and I tend to avoid the overtly political books. I like

:52:25.:52:29.

history books and I like novels. I have just finished reading the

:52:29.:52:39.
:52:39.:52:50.

Sambourne novel. I am into everything Scandinavian at the

:52:50.:52:55.

moment. Having done the Stig Larsson in one of the summer

:52:55.:53:01.

recesses, have saved Joe for this summer. Final thought from you,

:53:01.:53:07.

which would you recommend as your top book? If undoubtedly Robert

:53:07.:53:16.

Caro because it is about the pursuit and acquisition of power

:53:16.:53:19.

and most politicians are interested in that.

:53:19.:53:22.

Time now for something completely different. If G4S's staff turn up

:53:22.:53:25.

to work this week, one of their tasks will be to stop banned items

:53:25.:53:29.

getting into the Olympic Park and other venues. So what will the

:53:29.:53:32.

security industry's finest be looking for on their X-ray machines

:53:32.:53:36.

to stop spectators smuggling in? We've borrowed Bruce Forsyth's

:53:36.:53:39.

conveyor belt to help you try to remember what to leave at home on

:53:39.:53:43.

games days and in a moment we'll ask our guests to see how many they

:53:43.:53:49.

can name. Simon, Caroline, Ed, just take a look at the big screen.

:53:49.:53:51.

You'll see the banned items moving along the conveyor belt. Afterwards

:53:51.:53:56.

we'll see how many you can remember. Are you ready? Let's start the

:53:56.:54:03.

conveyor belt. And on the Daily Politics "banned

:54:03.:54:09.

at the olympics conveyer belt", we have... A set of balls, a tennis

:54:09.:54:11.

racket, a frisbee, large flags, banners, item of clothing with a

:54:11.:54:13.

political statement, item of clothing with commercial signage,

:54:13.:54:16.

an oversized ha, large golf style umbrella, long lens camera - not

:54:16.:54:19.

banned in the photography area, excessive food, a noise maker,

:54:19.:54:29.
:54:29.:54:38.

liquid greater than 100ml. So, Ed, Simon and Caroline. That's what

:54:38.:54:41.

spectators have to remember. Let's see how many you can recall. Good

:54:41.:54:51.
:54:51.:54:54.

luck with this. We'll give you 30 seconds Starting now! T-shirts with

:54:55.:55:04.
:55:05.:55:06.

political slogans. Excessive food, a large umbrella. Noise makers.

:55:06.:55:16.
:55:16.:55:16.

Liquid over 100 ml. Excessive food. Flags, banners. Tennis rackets.

:55:16.:55:21.

Excessive liquid. The there are just a couple you are missing.

:55:21.:55:29.

Tennis balls, tennis rackets. Frisbee. Something close to our

:55:29.:55:38.

industry. Long-lens cameras. you do the clothing? I said both, I

:55:38.:55:43.

said commercial as well. I'm very impressed, you got every single one

:55:43.:55:53.
:55:53.:55:53.

of them. If we have an even wider coalition, see what we can deliver.

:55:54.:55:58.

He will now be delivering our tickets. For are you going to any

:55:58.:56:03.

of the events? I haven't got any tickets. I tried to, but I didn't

:56:03.:56:09.

get any. I have Football Final tickets and Paralympics opening

:56:09.:56:14.

ceremony tickets. That is through the system. You did well! What

:56:14.:56:21.

about you? Beach volleyball. There is a surprise. New and most of the

:56:21.:56:28.

House of Commons. The my wife was in charge of the ticketing, so...

:56:28.:56:34.

So does that mean you have got some spare? We have four beach

:56:34.:56:44.
:56:44.:56:46.

volleyball tickets. I hate to go back... Ed Vaizey has verbal

:56:46.:56:50.

diarrhoea. I hate to go back briefly to the seriousness of the

:56:50.:56:58.

Olympics but do you think it will field two security heavy? No, No. I

:56:58.:57:06.

hope not is the obvious answer. know people are very enthusiastic.

:57:06.:57:10.

We did better than we might have done in the European football

:57:10.:57:17.

championships, and people remember the medals, the successes. What is

:57:17.:57:25.

wrong with an oversized hat? That is because people behind you can't

:57:25.:57:31.

see anything. As Rooprai, the sun will be shining, but an oversized

:57:32.:57:38.

hat, I think I would be a bit miffed if I was sat behind that.

:57:38.:57:42.

The food and drink is obviously just because they want you to spend

:57:42.:57:52.
:57:52.:57:53.

a fortune. If you go to any concert they stop alcohol coming in. Almost

:57:53.:57:58.

I can't bring the tennis racket in. A mouse you are needed on the

:57:58.:58:06.

court! What about the traffic lanes, do you think they will get on

:58:06.:58:12.

people's nerves? Aren't there are some issues about the markings of

:58:12.:58:19.

the lanes, getting on people's nerves? You can do a story every

:58:19.:58:28.

single day and I'm sure there will be. I came to Doncaster, we had

:58:28.:58:34.

then Parkinson and everyone was very excited, but these kids had

:58:34.:58:41.

made their torches and they loved it. It is the legacy of

:58:41.:58:47.

regenerating that part of London. You get the final word. That is all

:58:47.:58:54.

for today. Well done to you, you did extremely well. That's all for

:58:54.:58:58.

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