Browse content similar to 20/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now listen up, you | :00:39. | :00:48. | |
don't hear this very often. There is no easy way to say this. We made | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
a pledge. We didn't stick to it. And for that, I am sorry. Yes, | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
that's the sound of a politician apologising. Nick Clegg says sorry | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
for breaking his pledge on tuition fees. He says he will never again | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
make a promise he can't keep. But will that be enough to win back | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
lost voters? Over half a million people will be | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
affected by a major change to the pensions system when automatic | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
enrolment kicks in next month. We will talk to pensions minister, | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
Steve Webb. Conservative chairman Grant Shapps | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
will be here to explain how and why Downing Street is selling its | :01:22. | :01:29. | |
expertise abroad. And the government wants us to love | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
them but it seems the UK public isn't convinced by electric cars. | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
Motoring journalist Quentin Willson will be here to explain why they | :01:36. | :01:45. | |
are the future. You just touched the throttle like this, and you are | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
chasing Mini Coopers, literally. It is lovely to drive and an absolute | :01:50. | :01:57. | |
hoot. Chasing Mini Coopers? I don't think | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
All that in the next hour. With us for the duration journalist, author, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
broadcaster, educationalist. A man with a very long business card. | :02:05. | :02:14. | |
It's Toby Young. Welcome back. Thank you. Let's start with the | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
warning this morning from Michael Wilshaw, the head of England's | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
schools standards watchdog, who says the coalition's pupil premium | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
policy to target extra funding at poor pupils in England, for which | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
the Lib Dems have been taking the credit, is having little impact on | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
many schools. The government asked us to do a | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
survey on this, which we did, and we looked at nearly 300 schools to | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
see how they were spending the money, and it came as a surprise | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
when inspectors said over 50% said it had made little or no difference | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
to the way they organised the school and managed it in terms of | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
supporting the poorest children and we are saying this is a substantial | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
tranche of government money, it has got to go on those children for | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
whom it is meant and if it goes elsewhere, it is not spent wisely. | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
By a miracle of modern planning, our guest of the day, Toby Young, | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
co-founded a new free school in London and now chairs the school's | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
board of governors. You were instrumental in starting it. Do any | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
of your pupils get this premium? What do you use it for? We had 25% | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
on free school meals in the first year, 28% this year. That is a | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
proxy for poverty? Yes. You have to be in a household earning less than | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
�16,000 a year to be eligible. It is a mistake to assume that | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
children on free school meals will always need extra help. Our highest | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
achieving girls are on free school meals, and the highest achieving | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
cohort across England are Chinese gold on free school meals, so it is | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
a mistake to assume they always need extra help. We spend the | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
premium on its three instrument lessons to children who want to | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
take up music -- on a free music lessons. We subsidise school trips, | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
that sort of things. See you think it would be a mistake to earmark | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
the money that you get exclusively for the kids with a price on the | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
head? Les. There is so much red tape that schools have to wade | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
through -- yes. To insist they ring-fence the pupil premium and | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
then get them under due diligence about how they spend it will create | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
another bureaucratic hurdle for them. The important thing is that | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
children on free school meals should be doing as well as those | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
who are not. So in a sense, the pupil premium is not a per capita | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
payment because of the number of kids you have from low income | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
families, it is a top-up to your funds. Absolutely. The Lib Dems | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
make a bit too much of the pupils premium and present it as a | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
fantastic concession they have got out of the Tories and they will | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
brag about it in the next election campaign but �600 is a fraction of | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
what you get overwrought for a pupil on free school meals. -- | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
overall. You get about �6,000 for a pupil and an extra 2500 if they are | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
on free school meals and only an extra 600 for the pupil premium. | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
You must be encouraged that the girls on free school meals are | :05:43. | :05:50. | |
doing so well. Absolutely, it is fantastic. Working hard! Anyway... | :05:50. | :06:00. | |
:06:00. | :06:00. | ||
How i's your lumbago today? -- how is your lumbago? Fine! Is the | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
arthritis playing you up? Let's face it, none of us is getting any | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
younger. And yet millions of us don't have a pension. Now I sound | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
like one of those day-time TV adverts. Like Michael Parkinson! | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
You can't get coverage cheaper than that! The number of people actively | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
paying into a workplace pension scheme has dropped consistently in | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
recent years to little more than eight million. There are about 25 | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
million people in the private sector. Anyway, the government is | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
Starting from next month, the government will phase-in an | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
automatic enrolment scheme which will put all workers into a | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
workplace pension. That's if they are aged between 22 and the state | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
pension age. Earn at least �8,105 a year. And are not already in a | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
scheme which meets the minimum standards. Employees can opt out. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
But saving in a pension will be the new default setting for anyone who | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
does not express a choice. Eventually, the automatic level of | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
contributions will be at least 8% of the individual's qualifying | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
earnings. This includes three per cent which comes from the employer. | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
Speaking on a visit to a supermarket today, pensions | :07:06. | :07:15. | |
secretary Iain Duncan Smith said Britain has a terrible savings | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
culture. Saving in a pension is beginning to fall. 11 million | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
people simply do not save enough for their retirement. This is the | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
opportunity to give people a slow and easy way to save that | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
guarantees them a decent income in retirement. That is a vital | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
ingredient for our lives. We spent a lot of years when we are not | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
working and we need to make sure our income before we retire is set. | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
Everything we say it needs to go towards a our future, not to the | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
government's future. Iain Duncan Smith. And with us now | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
is his colleague, Pensions Minister and Lib Dem MP Steve Webb. The | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
bottom 10th of her owners, the lowest paid people in the country, | :08:02. | :08:11. | |
:08:12. | :08:12. | ||
are paying... They're paid did not rise at all last year. -- and their | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
salary did not rise. Food prices went up, utility bills went up 20%, | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
things they all have to pay, no choice on that, and now you are | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
going to take another 4% from their income. How does that work? This is | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
a voluntary scheme. If somebody is really strapped for cash, they can | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
opt out. But most people know they need a pension but it is too | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
difficult and complicated. The employee you would choose a scheme | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
and put some money in. Behind Iain Duncan-Smith was the sign "buy one | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
get one free". You put four in and that turns into eight because of | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
what the workplace will put him. You can say goodbye to any pay rise | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
next year because the employee will have to put in an extra 3%, so it | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
is not buy one get one free. Just because you work for a small firm, | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
it doesn't mean you should retire poorer. So we have tried to ease | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
the burden on the smaller firms, they don't have to come in for a | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
few years. It will be done very gradually, but what is the | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
alternative? But a lot of people who do not take home much already | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
will see this as another tax. It is another 4% on income tax. Is it 4% | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
of everything they earn? Above 5,000. That is lower than when | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
income tax kicks in? Exactly. We want to raise the income tax | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
threshold, which will help the people you are talking about. We | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
are bringing this 4% in over five years, and the evidence around the | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
world is that this is quite possible -- popular. A phrase I | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
heard at the supermarket was, this is the nudge by needed. I knew I | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
needed a pension. If you are a 50-year-old owning | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
�20,000, after 16 years of paying into a scheme with 4% of your | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
income been taken away every year, you are left with an income at 66, | :10:22. | :10:31. | |
when they retire, your pension will be �940 a year at! Every year! | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
if you start saving at 50, not 22, those are the sorts of figures you | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
will get. The beauty of this is it gets young people in and they can | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
build on that. We have to get people in earlier. Hand on heart, | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
can you look at a 50-year-old today, it works out as �18 a week, it is a | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
pittance. Could you really look at a 50-year-old and say, this is what | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
you should do? Absolutely. If they invested in a savings account they | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
do not get the employer contribution. The money is | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
immediately doubled. The employer contribution bit alarms me. There | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
is no question that this will increase the burden on small | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
businesses and that runs counter to the post reshuffle of mood music | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
that the coalition will make life easier for small businesses. I | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
wonder if this is a Lib Dem pound of flesh extracted from Michael | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
Fallon! It has been talked about Labour legislated this, Adair | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
Turner came up with this idea a decade ago, and with pensions you | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
want consistent all party support. All the major parties are behind | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
this because we not have an alternative. People will retire in | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
poverty if we don't do it. would be bragging in the next | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
election that this was a concession won by the Lib Dems. I am proud to | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
be involved with this. These are tough times for people at the lower | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
end of the income scale. Their income is not going up, and the | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
things they have to spend money on, these are not discretionary | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
spending and treats, they have got to pay utility bills and put food | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
on the table. Because of that, people will say, I cannot afford at | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
the moment to lose another 4% of my income so I will opt out. | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
recognise some people may opt out, maybe up to a third, but even then, | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
maybe 9 million people will be getting into pensions for the first | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
time. I think it is great. If you got in at the age of 25, and when I | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
was 25, almost ten years ago now, I did not think about pensions. It is | :12:49. | :12:58. | |
tough. I wanted the 4% to go and spend it. But if you go in at 25 | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
and you got your three, four and your one up on tax relief, or what | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
pension would you end up with? you are on �15,000, the state | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
pension plus this pension will replace most of that so you are | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
living standards will be about the same. If you are on average | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
earnings, you need to do more than this, clearly. The challenge is to | :13:22. | :13:30. | |
get people in in the first place. �140? For a flat-rate pension? | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
is the figure we are speaking about. The Prime Minister called this the | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
best thing since sliced bread. He now seems to be less enthusiastic. | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
Is it going to be dropped and the men did? No. We will publish a | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
White Paper in the autumn. It will happen and it is the foundation for | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
what we are talking about today. Get the pension up to a decent | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
level. The other thing we are seeing is that because the deficit | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
reduction is not quite going as quickly as the coalition said it | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
would, and you might not meet the debt target of debts falling to a | :14:11. | :14:18. | |
percentage of GDP by 2016, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Apology, | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
he said that there would be no further welfare cuts that we would | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
accept. But yesterday, he said that more cuts were possible. Where are | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
we? Where are the Lib Dems? We have always taken the view that cuts | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
have to be made across the board but our priority is to protect the | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
most vulnerable. That will always be the way that we approach future | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
discussions about spending reductions. You are not ruling out | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
further cuts in the welfare budget? We will try to protect the | :14:53. | :15:02. | |
I mentioned your glorious leader and his YouTube apology, which I | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
think we'll be a party political broadcast next week as well. Let's | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
get your reaction. We made a promise before the election that we | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
would vote against any rise in fees under any circumstances. That was a | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
mistake. It was a pledge made with the best of intentions, but we | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
should not have made a promise we were not absolutely sure that we | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
could deliver. I should not have committed to a policy that was so | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
expensive when there was no money around, not least when the most | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
likely way we would end up in government was with coalition with | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
either Labour or the Conservatives, who were both committed to putting | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
them up. A sensible idea to apologise at this point? I think it | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
took guts. We found we had a lot of things we wanted to talk about, the | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
tax system, the green agenda, sometimes it is landing on deaf | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
ears. People say, hang on, tuition fees. Do some extent it's in the | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
past? It is, but some of our own people are still bruised. We are a | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
party that prides itself on its integrity and this was a damaging | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
exercise for all of us. I think clearing the air at this point, | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
rather than letting it run on to the next election, we need people | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
to believe what we are going to say and we need to know how we can | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
learn from what went wrong last time. A gamble? It could expose | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
them to ridicule? You get nowhere if you do not take chances. He knew | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
that would be on YouTube but he thought it would be the right thing | :16:31. | :16:41. | |
:16:41. | :16:44. | ||
to do Foster let's look at the # We made a promise we would vote | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
against any rise in fees, any rise in fees. | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
# It was made with the best of intentions, the best of intentions. | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
# We should not have made a promise we were not sure that we can | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
deliver. # I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so, so | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
sorry. # There is no easy way to say I'm | :17:06. | :17:16. | |
:17:16. | :17:19. | ||
Even you are smiling! We are going to hire those creatives for our | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
next election campaign! What is he apologising for? We were quite | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
clear, we went into an election saying we would get rid of fees. | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
The difference is, when Labour said they would not introduce fees, they | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
won the election and did it anyway. You are apologising for breaking | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
the promise, but not apologising for the policy? The policy is about | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
saying that when you repay, you repay at higher income levels, only | :17:45. | :17:55. | |
at the end and not up front. Those elements are good. You mentioned | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
the trust. Surely the allegation is that you cannot trust what people | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
say in their manifesto because everything is up for grabs in a | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
coalition? If we could rewind, would we make that pledge again? No. | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
I think that we have learned from that, making sure everything is | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
costed out so that you can rely on it. What I was told us that his | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
motivation comes from the reaction that it is still simmering among | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
Lib Dem Party activists? I think you confirmed that? It is the | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
public and the party. He spent a lot of time out there. He does not | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
hide in Westminster. He senses that time had not healed this one and he | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
needed to nail it and he has. should say that Nick Clegg has | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
given permission to release a charity version of that song. Any | :18:50. | :18:57. | |
profits are given to the Sheffield Children's NHS Foundation Trust. | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
You agree it was not costed and you never thought the policy would come | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
into play? Because it was costed, we thought it could not be done in | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
a single parliament. It was a long- term plan, but an expensive one. | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
it was an aspiration, if it was not in your four key pledges, why did | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
Nick Clegg stand there with a big pledge, in such a public display of | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
commitment to the policy and sign it, if it was an aspiration and a | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
long-term commitment? That is the irony. If you take our manifesto, | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
on the front cover it says four things. This was not one of them. | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
It says taking people out of tax, the pupil premium, the green agenda, | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
the front of a manifesto went straight into government. But you | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
grandstand did this. You all went and signed it? Online, we all | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
signed on to it. We have learned from that. Toby Young, are you | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
convinced? Will that do it? I hope it becomes a trend. I would like to | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
see Gordon Brown follow-up with apologising for promising to end | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
boom-and-bust. I'd like to see David Cameron apologise for going | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
back on his 2007 referendum to hold a EU referendum. I'd like George | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
Osborne to promise for -- apologise for not cutting public expenditure, | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
which he promised to do so. If this is going to be the content of party | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
political broadcasts now, it will be in every one until the election. | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
If they are going to do all of these apologies, the programme will | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
have to go to 90 minutes! It is the Government wasting | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
millions of pounds on a electric car charging point that only a | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
handful of people using? A new report from the Transport Select | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Committee says the Government has spent �11 million on 1600 public | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
charging points and grants for new electric cars. But only 1000 cars | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
have been registered since the start of last year. Despite this, | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
we have managed to track down an owner of not one, but two electric | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
cars. Here is Quentin Willson on why more of us should swap the | :20:59. | :21:09. | |
:21:09. | :21:15. | ||
petrol station for the charging Electric cars. Slow, boring, not | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
interesting at all. Wrong. I've got two and they are fantastic. It | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
costs you �1 to do 100 miles in electricity. You can fast charge | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
one back to 80% in less than 30 minutes. They are simple to own. | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
Like plugging in your iPad or your charger, just in here, 30 minutes | :21:37. | :21:47. | |
:21:47. | :21:54. | ||
The first thing you get with an electric car is this amazing | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
feeling of silence. You will never have experienced it before. And | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
speed. We've got this new phenomenon of silence Bede, where | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
you just touched the throttle, like this and you are chasing many | :22:10. | :22:20. | |
:22:20. | :22:25. | ||
Qubairs, literally. Absolute fruit. -- You are chasing a Mini Cooper, | :22:25. | :22:35. | |
:22:35. | :22:36. | ||
Quentin Willson has joined us in the studio. We have been joined | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
from Liverpool by the Labour MP who chairs the Transport Select | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
Committee, Louise Ellman. You love the cars, but can you believe that | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
everybody else will be convinced? It will take some time. The in a | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
urban myths are huge. They are no good, slow and boring. They are | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
extremely easy to drive. The technology is here and now. The | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
major point is that we need to establish a market for these cars | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
as an alternative to diesel and petrol. We have the highest prices | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
of diesel and petrol ever. You can drive 100 miles for �1. That sounds | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
incredible. I use these electric cars for all of my urban journeys. | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
They are quick, interesting... but on the point of urban journeys, | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
I could imagine having that, maybe if that was a car that I did go | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
around town in. But as my only car, are you going to convince people | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
that this is just about supporting affluent people having two cars, | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
the second one being electric? are right that you can't go to | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
Manchester and do 300 miles. There are a range of different engines. | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
But give us time. This is an emerging market that we need to | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
push. The UK needs to be the world leader in this technology. We can | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
create jobs, employment and all of this stuff. He murdered the market | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
now and say it does not work for people because that technology is | :24:04. | :24:11. | |
not advanced enough, that would be very wrong. Louise Ellman, is this | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
wishful thinking by the Government or can this transform our transport | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
strategy and cut carbon emissions? Well, they certainly could | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
transform transport strategy. The Government say that they hope to | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
see tens of thousands of electric cars on other roads by 2015. I do | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
think that we need to review the strategy to achieve this. It does | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
need much better promotion of the scheme. People need to know where | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
the charging points are. The issue of expense needs to be looked at. | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
It might be very cheap to run them, but even with the Government grant, | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
people can be asked to take between �25,000 and �30,000 to purchase it. | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
Tax incentives need to be stable. One of the issues we have found is | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
that the Government has subtly changed the tax regime without any | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
consultation. The idea is right. The scheme needs to be reviewed and | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
we need to encourage the purchase of the cars. How do we know the | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
strategy has been effective? Looking at what has happened, so | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
few people have actually purchased them. There is not actually public | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
information about whether charging points out. We are told there are | :25:23. | :25:31. | |
1600. But when we looked at the public register we could only find | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
500. There are eight pilot projects but not necessarily where the cars | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
are being purchased. All of these things need to be looked at so | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
there can be greater successful stock would you buy one? I would | :25:42. | :25:52. | |
:25:52. | :25:52. | ||
I did a bit of research, and it turns out the carbon emissions that | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
are involved in the production of an electric car, not to mention the | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
lithium batteries, they are much greater than a carbon emissions | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
generated by the production of a conventional car. If you have one, | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
you can just about get back into credit, if you use the car for a | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
very long time. But if you have two, you will never been credit on | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
carbon emissions. Putting the carbon emissions to one side, | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
saying, look, something that reduces our dependency on oil, or | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
diesel, it is going to make the air Peeress anyway. Let's not get too | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
wound up with how many grams of carbon-dioxide it takes. If less of | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
us are driving fossil-fuel vehicles, the air quality will be much better. | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
Louise is right... Wedd has electricity come from? That is | :26:42. | :26:50. | |
fossil fuel. Wind and wave, as well. That was 1.8% of electricity | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
generated. Developing that as well, we need a long-term strategy. Why | :26:55. | :27:03. | |
are we paying 20% VAT on electric cars? How much did they cost? | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
�25,000 for that one. All of the people that have bought them, and | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
they say they are getting grants and it is not helping middle-class | :27:09. | :27:17. | |
people, they pay much less than petrol cars to run them. If you are | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
spending �11 million subsidising them, it would be better to reduce | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
the outlay initially for the price of the car? Well, try and get these | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
prices down by increasing the scale and getting the market to work. 10 | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
years down the line if we say, we did not let the letter cars survive | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
and fuel is �4 a litre, we will be very sorry. Louise Ellman, have you | :27:40. | :27:48. | |
driven one of these cars? I have been in one of these cars. The | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
Riverside Housing Association in Liverpool are using one of these | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
cars and showed me how effective they thought it was. This is to be | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
we need to encourage with more incentives. What does it feel like | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
from the driver's position? We had speed, a modern sensation. Now you | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
have silent speed. You have this lovely wave of torque because there | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
is no loss of power because you do not have a conventional gearbox. | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
They are really great, really orthodox. The industry has really | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
pushed forward and former careers. Give them more and they will be | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
looking at batteries with 200 mile range and you can charge them in 10 | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
minutes. You said he would take on a Mini Cooper? Andrew has won, we | :28:34. | :28:43. | |
can do Air Race! -- a race. Silent Running is not a great thing, | :28:43. | :28:53. | |
you need to hear this thing bearing Thank you both very much. UKIP is | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
gathering for its conference in Birmingham today. I bet most of you | :28:56. | :29:03. | |
did not know that. You do now. Not you, you know everything. What is | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
their biggest achievement? Coming second in the last elections for | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
the European Parliament? They got 12 seats in Strasbourg, or Brussels, | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
anywhere that it meets. Or is their achievement preventing the | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
Conservatives from getting a majority at the last election? | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
There is a theory that they cost the Tories about 20 seats because | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
the Euro-sceptic vote was split. That has got some people thinking | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
about a ceasefire between the parties in time for the next | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
Could Nigel Farage helped David Cameron win the next general | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
election? In this part of north London, the Tory MP has a majority | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
over Labour of about 100 but 1,000 people voted for UKIP last time so | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
securing those votes is important for the Conservatives. Hendon is | :29:57. | :30:06. | |
also the home of the RAF Museum. The perfect place to discuss a non- | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
aggressive pact between the two parties. I would like people who | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
voted UKIP and people who vote for the Conservatives can support the | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
same candidates. At one end of the scale on local deals and the others | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
are a full merger, as happened in Canada, where they had split up the | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
Centre Right with disastrous consequences. The important thing | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
is to get the policy right, which is trusting people to have a say on | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
this vital issue. A but there are some big factors that might stop | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
this idea getting off the ground, such as: What if UKIP voters do not | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
automatically become Conservative voters? Some of them could switch | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
their support to other parties instead, which would do the Tories | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
no favours. And what if getting with UKIP actually puts off other | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
people and ends up costing the Conservatives votes? And what is | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
too few people in either party really want to go through with it - | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
- and what if? The idea of a pact does not appeal to UKIP's newest | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
recruit, Lord Stevens. He was kicked out of the Tory party for | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
writing a letter urging people to vote for UKIP. The problem the | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
Conservative have is that UKIP is becoming a serious political party | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
and I am not sure that UKIP would agree with it. What would the | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
promise be? And in out referendum? The Conservatives already agreed to | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
have a referendum on Lisbon and when they came to power, they tore | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
up that agreement. So it is unlikely the UKIP battle bus will | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
be dishing out Conservative leaflets any time soon. More | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
probable is a repeat of the much less exciting situation from the | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
last election, where UKIP did not run in seats where the Tory | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
candidate thought broadly along the same lines as Nigel Farage. Adam | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
Fleming reporting. And we have been joined by the deputy leader of UKIP | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
Paul Nuttall, and by Katie Hopkins, the former Apprentice contestant | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
who has announced she's going to stand in the next European | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
elections for a new party called the I Want A Referendum Party. It | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
is not clear what their policy is but it is called I Want A | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
Referendum Party it! Welcome. His you get much of a threat to the | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
Tories at the next general election -- is UKIP? It remains to be seen | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
but the prognosis is that UKIP will top the poll in the 2014 European | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
parliamentary elections and if the Conservatives are still trailing | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
Labour at that point, I think David Cameron will come under a lot of | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
pressure at the conference... you have an idea of what that | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
accommodation should be? I think an electoral pact between the two, | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
where by the Conservatives promise not to oppose UKIP in a dozen | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
constituencies, that is unlikely. UKIP would insist as a price for | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
that that David Cameron commit the party to a referendum in the next | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
parliament, but that will shoot the UKIP policy anyway it. For would | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
you be up for the pact if it was on offer? You never say never in | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
politics. It all depends on where we are in 2015. If we have won | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
after the European elections and we are pulling double digits, I think | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
the Conservatives will find it difficult not to come to us because | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
it will be clear that they will not be able to form a majority without | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
UKIP support. But in the Westminster elections, you are | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
essentially a spoiler. You have a lot of seats in Strasbourg but you | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
have no seats in Westminster, though you may affect the results | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
for the Tories in some constituencies. Surely, to make a | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
break into Westminster you need something along the lines that Toby | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
Young is suggesting, where you get a clear run in some constituencies. | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
That may be the case but we have policies that appeal to the | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
Conservative Party, and their grassroots. We are in favour of a | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
firm immigration policy, zero tolerance on crime, grammar schools. | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
And the Conservative Party is in trouble because it as halved their | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
membership since David Cameron has become leader -- it has halved to | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
their membership. Katie Hopkins. Why don't you just joined UKIP? | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
Because I think people are tired of parties that promise a lot and do | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
not deliver. We have been hearing, we are going to give you a | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
referendum, we don't get it. Now there might be a strategic alliance, | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
a packed, a coalition. Why not throw the Green Party in there? We | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
stand for something very simple. We demand a referendum and in the | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
European elections there will be a candidate fielded in every region | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
of England and people can go and cross where it says "we demand a | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
referendum", and it is not the career politicians that tell us | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
what we think... The is that you're only policy? No. We are fighting on | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
things like travellers' sites, small businesses to obtain a grant | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
funding, a number of things. So you like UKIP? You have other policies. | :35:41. | :35:48. | |
What is the point? We are a very clear party. 30% of the latest | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
YouGov poll said they would prefer to have a movement that is solely | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
for demanding a referendum and that is what we will provide. | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
completely sympathise with Katie's cause, I am a Euro-sceptic, but | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
because of that I don't think what you are proposing is a good idea. I | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
want UKIP to top the poll in 2014 to put as much pressure as possible | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
on the two major parties. If you are fielding candidates against | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
UKIP, you will divide the anti- EU the voting. This is a very | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
political perspective you have both got. I am much more representative | :36:28. | :36:37. | |
of what people are thinking on the sofa. I don't want to be an | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
apprentice! I will put it to you that if you are fighting for a | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
referendum, you are fighting the wrong elections because if you | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
fight European elections, MEPs cannot force an election and a | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
referendum. Sometimes if I don't want to hear the answer to a | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
question, I don't ask it. People do not want to ask it. You both all | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
the same thing but you are splitting the Euro-sceptic in that | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
referendum vote. We are not getting a referendum! How long have UKIP | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
been around? We have just delivered another batch of 100,000 signatures | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
to parliament, we have the largest mobile network of supporters and we | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
are fed up with waiting for these guys. We want a referendum and we | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
would it be for the next election. You can deliver as many signatures | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
to Downing Street as you like, it is pie in the sky. The only way you | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
could force that is in the ballot box in Westminster. In 2014, people | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
can mark clearly that they want a referendum. Katie said it was to | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
enable people to clearly indicate they want a referendum, and they | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
can do that anyway by signing a pledge. You should support that | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
pledge, it is a great campaign, not throw up a spoiler to UKIP, who we | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
want to win in 2014. Are you worried? Sake lay, but we have seen | :38:04. | :38:13. | |
it all before. -- a vaguely. It will not make that much difference. | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
I don't wish to join UKIP. We have queues of people waiting to sign up | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
when we are campaigning in the streets. Why don't you just mad a | :38:24. | :38:32. | |
takeover of UKIP? -- Mount. Because they haven't delivered. That is the | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
bottom line. We see them a lot and they talk a lot but they don't | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
deliver. Where is the referendum that they have delivered? They have | :38:41. | :38:47. | |
not won enough elections. indeed. That is why we need a new | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
group of people. How would you be able to do it more effectively? | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
Weekend have cross-party support. It is not about what party used | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
belong to -- we can have cross- party support. It is not about | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
career politicians, it is about the people. What are you going to do | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
about this? We have seen it all before. We have had a splinter | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
groups in the past and spoilers in the European elections. Our ground | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
is too big. We are polling double digits and in all likelihood... | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
Will there be many Tories like you, Toby Young, saying that they want | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
UKIP to come ahead of the polls in the European elections? I am | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
probably not that unusual. If you look at the people who have | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
defected from the Conservative Party since the last election, | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
quite a few of them have defected to UKIP precisely on that issue. It | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
depends on the Tory party's policy about Europe. If Cameron is not | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
committed at that point to a referendum, yes, I will be voting | :39:55. | :40:02. | |
UKIP. We need to check about the money involved. I was in Ireland | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
for the last referendum and the yes campaign out spent the no campaign | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
20 fold, because the EU were pouring in money. We cannot allow | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
that to happen again because it will be a repeat of 1975. Thank you. | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
You're watching the Daily Politics, and we've been joined by viewers in | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
Scotland who have been watching First Minister's Questions from | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
Holyrood. It is a big day in Edinburgh. The | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
economic future of five million Scots, and the fiscal reputation of | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
the SNP, is being debated, as Finance Secretary John Swinney | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
reveals his budget statement to the Scottish Parliament. Scotland's | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
budget comes from a UK government block grant. In other words, taxes | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
raised centrally by the Exchequer. There is just over 28 billion | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
available for the coming year. The Scottish government also has the | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
power to raise, or reduce, the basic rate of income tax by up to | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
3p, which would generate an extra billion pounds. But, so far, the | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
option has never been used. Holyrood cannot borrow on the | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
international markets. But it can take out short-term loans from the | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
UK central government. So, at the moment, the size of the cake is not | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
really the issue, just how you distribute it. Money will be spread | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
among devolved responsibilities like health, education, justice and | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
policing, transport, economic development, and rural affairs. The | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
SNP is expected to make three points:. That they are driving | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
growth, through protecting capital investment and, in particular, | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
construction. That they are working hard to counter cuts and alleged | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
economic mishandling from the UK government. That independence would | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
offer greater powers and thus greater flexibility to assist the | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
Scottish economy. Scotland's finance secretary will be making | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
his budget speech this afternoon. Let's talk now to the BBC's | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
Scotland political editor, Brian Taylor. What has been said? It is | :41:48. | :41:55. | |
very contentious, this Budget, because it is 42013-14, and 2014 is | :41:55. | :42:03. | |
the date pencilled in firmly for the referendum on Scottish | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
independence. We have a different referendum in play up here! John | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
Swinney is very tightly constrained. Spending cuts of 11% over the four | :42:13. | :42:23. | |
:42:23. | :42:24. | ||
years up to 2015. But within that, he is trying as much as possible to | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
revive growth, and he has done that largely by shifting from Revenue | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
dated in spending on to Capital Investment, particularly housing | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
and construction. The SNP said it is looking at ending the pay freeze | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
for public sector workers. They have said that before, but is it | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
affordable? It is a very, very contentious question. Strictly | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
speaking, the pay freeze handled by the Scottish government is only the | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
employees for which they have direct responsibility, civil | :42:57. | :43:05. | |
servants, NHS, quangos and senior managements, only 20,000 people, | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
but it sends a signal to a large part of Scotland and they have | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
followed that pay freeze, due to end in 20th March 13. John Swinney | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
signalled that he hoped after that to be able to allow a modest | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
increase. I guess that would be around 1%. He will defend that | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
argument on the basis that there has been two years of a freeze for | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
those earning over 21,000 in the public sector, and it is aware of | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
engendering a bit of a sense of confidence in two people, as well | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
as pennies and pounds. So while the debate goes on about whether that | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
is affordable, what about this spat between Iain Duncan-Smith and Alex | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
Salmond over how Scotland would pay its benefits bill if it were in | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
dependent? It is a very substantial row indeed. It has an immediate | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
element, whereby the SNP and the largest opposition party, Labour, | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
are delighted to be raising this issue and using it to give a | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
kicking to the UK government, both Tory and Lib Dem, but there is the | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
longer agenda. Alex Salmond wants to rebut in advance the argument | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
being made by UK ministers that Scotland could not afford current | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
levels of expenditure. He says the welfare budget in Scotland is | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
substantial but Scotland has been a net contributor to the UK, in other | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
words, the deficit in Scotland is a lower share of GDP than across the | :44:40. | :44:47. | |
hall of the UK, so both Scotland and the UK are a economically in a | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
mess but Alex Salmond is arguing that the bigger mess is the rest of | :44:50. | :45:00. | |
:45:00. | :45:02. | ||
Thank you. Now, would getting a personal text message from the | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
Government make you more likely to pay your tax bill? How about if you | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
were told that other people in your town had already paid theirs? It | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
might sound like something out of the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, but | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
it is part one idea known as nudging. There is a whole unit in | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
Number Ten dedicated to saving money using persuasion techniques. | :45:23. | :45:33. | |
:45:33. | :45:34. | ||
Sounds ominous. The UK is exporting nudging, with offices in Australia | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
working with the Government team. I am joined by Grant Shapps. How does | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
that work, sending a text message? What do they say about getting | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
people to pay fines and file tax returns? Did they say, please, | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
please, please? Yes, essentially. It is a way of nudging people into | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
paying something that is outstanding. It's harder to ignore, | :46:01. | :46:08. | |
even perhaps than a red letter. It's an interesting idea, when you | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
think a bailiff's letter, with implicit threats and turning up at | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
the door would be more effective? You would think so, it must get to | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
the point when bailiffs would be more effective. But I think this | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
has saved a lot of visits from bailiffs, about �30 million it is | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
projected to save. This is one small thing that the unit has been | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
doing. It's based on a theory called nudging, as you said. A lot | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
of people might have read a book on the same subject. We turned out to | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
be the only government and the world that has looked at this, put | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
it into place and used it in policy development and actually trying to | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
do things like change people's behaviour. Today, there is a big | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
announcement on pensions and enrolment. That is also part of | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
this. That would be an ideal part of the so-called nudging? | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
Suggesting things to people up front, rather than waiting. I was | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
involved in an energy conference and there was somebody from the | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
United Number Ten who said one of the problems they had was trying to | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
persuade people to change their ways in terms of saving energy. | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
Loft insulation, a big campaign by the Government, that has not worked. | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
Why is that? It should make perfect sense, your bills are lower and | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
your house is warmer. Andy while offering subsidies? He s, and yet | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
people are still not doing it. What we found is that if you said to | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
people, actually, we will come and sort your loft out in the process, | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
you get a free loft spring-clean, it got people giving it. It was | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
actually just the offer of it being hassle-free. It turned out not to | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
be... They didn't have to make the cost in the first place? Further to | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
that, even if you are charging people, the fact it is a simple | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
service that makes it possible and people are wanting to do it. It's | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
much less to do with economics than traditional government would | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
traditionally think. You normally think, or for somebody something of | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
financial value and they will jump at it. The answer to a lot of this | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
nudging stuff, a lot of it, is that people will respond to things when | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
they think other people are doing it. You mention things that your | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
neighbours are doing. That's an incentive to do it yourself. | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
Changing people's behaviour has only worked on things like paying | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
your fine, as a reminder. Has it changed their behaviour | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
permanently? You will have to do it again. So it's failing to change | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
the way people behave. It is not changing social norms? We know that | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
this unit has generated something like 20 times the amount it cost to | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
run it. It's been very successful. It will continue and be exported to | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
Australia. Simple examples in housing policy, we relaunched the | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
right to buy. Using the nudging you did, we worked out that people | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
wanted to find out what their friends and neighbours were doing. | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
Then there were much more likely to use the right to buy themselves. | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
it a good thing? I find it difficult to get past the language. | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
It's very much like something out of the thick of it, the idea of | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
being nudged by somebody's unit! It was Steve Holton's baby. The fact | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
it is not being swept under the carpet, does that signal that he is | :49:22. | :49:31. | |
coming back? He never left! I would not check his travel arrangements | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
for off the back of this, but it is a serious project. It is starting | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
to save large amounts of cash in government. The �200 million will | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
be attributed to this from the work that has already been done. It is | :49:43. | :49:52. | |
another small thing. You can laugh at it and say, that does not matter, | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
or you can see that other governments are interested. | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
much are you going to make from selling it abroad? That is a nifty | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
idea. It would be useful. The unit is run out of Downing Street. This | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
would enable extra people to come and work for it. There are 11 | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
people there at the moment. It's a job creation service? It will | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
create more employment, if you put it that way, but it means we can do | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
more domestic work as well. Tell us about the countdown clock. The | :50:21. | :50:27. | |
countdown clock to the 2015 election? Is this part of your | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
Nanjing? Is it you nudging your staff? I would not mention it to | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
any other audience other than the Daily Politics. There are 958 days | :50:35. | :50:41. | |
to go until the next General Election. I said in Central Office, | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
put that clock up to remind us that is the deadline, the goal, maybe | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
quicken our pace. Are you going to have other bench marks between now | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
and does 958 days? I suspect there will be a lot of them along the way. | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
It is just to focus people's minds. Maybe we could do with one of those. | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
We can't see them, because they are all the wrong time! Steve Hilton is | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
coming back, but not to Downing Street? He's working for you? | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
but he's not coming back to Downing Street. Chairman of the Tory party, | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
see, you learn things about your own party. | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
We like to offer something new two- hour viewers. It's a sort of | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
matchmaking service for the politically confused. As he watched | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
the great and the good of Westminster tripping through Aller | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
Studios, you may have wondered, amide left-wing, am I right wing, | :51:32. | :51:38. | |
none of the above? We decided to kick off with Richard D North, to | :51:38. | :51:47. | |
go for as his top five tips for At five, the small state. Richard | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
thinks that the Government should provide the army and the police, | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
but not much else. At four, the Anglo-American. He says trust | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
Britain and the States over France and Germany. At three, be an | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
elitist. Celebrate the top people in society. Everyone, that is, but | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
the liberal elite! At two practice tough love. Teachers should not | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
sugar coat the truth, he says. Don't like it? Tough! Number one, | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
love capitalism. He says businesses and banks are the best hope and | :52:20. | :52:27. | |
Richard is with us now. He has written a book that gives readers | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
ideas about how to be a right- winger. What makes you right-wing? | :52:32. | :52:39. | |
A bump on the head when young? The lure of the jackboot? Who knows. | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
Reading the Economist when young, having a nice conservative father? | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
Being in love with the British constitution? Being rather a anti- | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
liberal, when the 60s came along with that kind of false hope that | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
everything would be love. I thought it was a by-product of getting | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
older and wiser? No, I was right wing a very long time ago. Unlike | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
Toby. It says when you were a teenager you describe yourself as | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
an anarchist? You were a green head panned? There is a real continuity | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
between my punk anarchism and mind libertarian Toryism. Have you got | :53:20. | :53:28. | |
any photographs? I've destroyed them! Did you move to the right | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
from these days, as you got a mortgage, a wife, a family? You had | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
to make a living in the world? not sure, in all seriousness, that | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
it has been a movement. I was anti- state when I was a teenager and I | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
am against the state now. I accept now that there has to be a minimal | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
state, that anarchy would not work. But I have not drifted that far | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
from my days as an anarchist. love with a very good state, I am | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
an love with a representative democracy that produces an elitist | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
government, one mandated by the people in a sensible way. I'm in | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
love worth the Big Society. But only if it includes firms in the | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
concept of what Big Society is. I like the idea rob voluntary | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
organisations. I don't believe they are going to run the world. I think | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
that firms are going to be incredibly important in providing | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
welfare. Shrinking the state, growing a wiser capitalism is part | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
of the right-wing mix. It's terribly important to say that the | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
right wing is deeply conflicted. A proper right-winger would wake up | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
one morning and feel quite strongly authoritarian. The next morning, | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
quite strongly libertarian. One morning quite strongly progressive. | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
What capitalism can bring his progress. At the same time, in love | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
with tradition. If you are not a conflicted right winger, you are no | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
right wing of a tall, in my view, you're just a dunderhead. | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
people that are right wing, are they privately ashamed? Absolutely. | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
Partly they have been taught by generations of teachers that it is | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
a nasty business. It includes Hitler and fascism. It is | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
fashionable, in the right, to say that these were creatures of the | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
Left, really. I don't think so. I think they were creatures of the | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
matter right. The hard nationalist right? A particular kind of writer. | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
There are many other kinds of right. Actually, I think we ought to | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
accept that really, in a way, almost everybody is right-wing | :55:29. | :55:36. | |
except when they are being self- consciously liberal and Labour. | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
great intellectual at Peterhouse College, when people identify | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
themselves as Conservative students he would say, are you Conservative | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
because you believe in conservative values or because you believe in | :55:47. | :55:54. | |
nothing? The correct answer was the second, not the first. It is | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
certainly anti-utopianism. It does not necessarily mean that you are a | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
Tory. You're not necessarily for faith, family and the flag. A | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
right-winger, especially a Moreton Island young right-winger, I would | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
say they are interested in globalisation, rather than Little | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
England. So there isn't a model, it is rather complicated to say what | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
is it to be right-wing? It's very tough. Unfortunately, the right- | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
winger asked to see that the buck always stops with one. It is | :56:25. | :56:35. | |
:56:35. | :56:35. | ||
personal responsibility. Everything is one's fault, as a person. One is | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
responsible for fixing everything, in a weird way. Not by using the | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
state. Are you not a bit short of modern icons? The right in this | :56:44. | :56:51. | |
country still appears Mrs Thatcher. She is the last right-wing icon. In | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
the United States, the Republicans, it is Ronald Reagan, he is the one | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
that they Riviere, still. That takes us back to the 80s. Here is | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
the right-wing icon today? Keith Richard, maybe. Of the Rolling | :57:04. | :57:12. | |
Stones? You are certainly right, granted, the right wing is very | :57:12. | :57:20. | |
various. The ones that come to mind, handily, are Mrs Thatcher, a UKIP | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
sort of person. That is actually a rather narrow conception of what | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
right-wing is. Margaret Thatcher was incredibly important. Keith | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
Joseph, another great teeth, incredibly important. Terribly | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
unfashionable and cast as unpleasant, Enoch Powell. Do you | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
think it is more fashionable now? Perhaps it was embarrassing to | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
admit that you were right wing, for young people, it was not trendy? | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
have just had a huge recession, banks have let us down, the | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
leadership of capitalism has gone wrong. And yet I see no serious | :57:54. | :58:01. | |
bark of leftism. Octopi is very interesting and quite charming. But | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
it is hardly a great push of anti- capitalism from the young. There | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
doesn't seem to be any intellectual resurgence on the left to match the | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
intellectual firepower of the right of is it intellectual? Mr Obama | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
looks to be re-elected in America, the polls at the moment suggest | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
that Mr Miliband will be the next Prime Minister? Other than that, | :58:26. | :58:36. | |
:58:36. | :58:37. | ||
Great to talk to you, thank you for coming in. We will also do what it | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
means to be a left-winger, your guide to being a Nazi... Just | :58:41. | :58:45. |