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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to our Daily Politics conference special | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
on the Labour Party Conference in Manchester. Indeed two specials for | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
the price of one today. We're on air until 1pm today then back at | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
2pm here on BBC2 because, in just over just over two hours, Ed | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
Miliband makes his big annual speech to conference - this time | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
:01:08. | :01:16. | ||
with the specific aim of selling Ed A local comprehensive school. | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
a comprehensive school like I did. And it's not all about Ed's | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
schooling. Labour unveil the technical Baccalaureate saying they | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
will invest �1 billion in what they are calling the forgotten 50%, who | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
don't got to university. And we ask delegates to react to calls from | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
the biggest union boss of all to kick Blairites out of the Labour | :01:35. | :01:44. | |
Party. I am writing a book about where -- wife Blairites should | :01:44. | :01:54. | |
never be allowed back. I am sure we can all hardly wait to read that. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Did you know that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive? All that in the | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
next hour. And with us for the duration, not one but two top | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
opinion pollsters, Andrew Hawkins of Com Res and Stephan Shakespeare | :02:06. | :02:16. | |
:02:16. | :02:18. | ||
of YouGov. Welcome to you both. A lot to talk about. And where better | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
to start than with the latest opinion poll to look at Ed | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
Miliband's popularity. The ComRes poll for theIndependent shows | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Labour's lead falling from seven points last month to just three | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
points ahead on 38% with the Conservatives on a steady 35% and | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
the Lib Dems up three points to 15%. This gives Labour a far smaller | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
lead than the polls we mentioned on the programme yesterday. | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
Unfortunately, for Mr Miliband, the ComRes poll is consistent with | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
others in suggesting that many people doubt his leadership | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
credentials. Just 22% of people believed Mr Miliband would make a | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
good Prime Minister that compares to 39% who think Cameron makes a | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
good PM. And only 24% of people say they trust Mr Miliband and the | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, to make the right decisions on the | :03:05. | :03:15. | |
:03:15. | :03:16. | ||
economy. Isn't this quite remarkable? You had him ahead at 5% | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
at the weekend. You have now got him at three. I know it | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
shuttlecocks around a little bit. When the think of the state of the | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
economy, the squeeze of living standards, the deficit rising again, | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
the coalition at each other's throats, frankly, I am a raise -- | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
amazed at how low the Labour lead is. We should preface with the | :03:45. | :03:53. | |
electoral geography means Labour would still get a workable majority. | :03:53. | :04:01. | |
Mid-term there. That is shocking. It is after the Lib Dem Conference. | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
Come 2015, we will have another situation on our hands, as in 2010, | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
where the coverage that the Liberal Democrat leader gets at the time | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
will give him a boost in the polls at the expense of Labour. It is a | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
straight switch we saw today from Labour to the Liberal Democrats. | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
Not a huge switch but it shows house of the Labour lead is. Your | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
poll went back up to nine. It seems like the Labour lead is struggling | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
to get over 10. Are we seeing a softening of the Labour position? | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
think we are. We're seeing a softening of loyalty across all | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
parties, especially at the moment with Labour. Why? People see things | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
going wrong and they do not think anyone has the answer. Why softer | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
for Labour? They are in opposition. The party is united. They have a | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
new young leader. They're not whipping themselves apart. | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
problem is that they have not found their voice. The whole thing about | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
pointy head and proud of it reminds me as when they were of rebranding | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Duncan-Smith. That is what happens when you flounder around and you | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
have not until voice. Isn't it astonishing that not only due to | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
root out of 10 people think Ed Miliband is prime ministerial | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
material? -- two out of 10. Almost half of the Labour supporters think | :05:36. | :05:46. | |
:05:46. | :05:47. | ||
he is not prime-ministerial come material. 42% do. That is even | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
Stevens. It comes down to one single issue and that is the | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
economy. We saw one of the latest trackers last week which shows the | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
economy has been the number one issue since 2007. On that, Ed | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
Miliband, the only person on the main parties who has lectured in | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
economics at Harvard, he is unable to get across his message on the | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
number one thing. He is also a drag on the party's ratings. That is | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
again apparent from today's poll, from both the economic trust | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
figures and there would make a good Prime Minister figures. David | :06:32. | :06:39. | |
Cameron pulls his party up. significant is it that all the | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
polls show the Conservatives more trusted than Labour on the economy? | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
If he cannot give him the coalition's economic strategy is in | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
trouble at the moment, if you've cannot be seen to be more trusted | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
than the coalition at the moment, Labour would be in trouble. | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
economy is the question of the day. The economy will be the question of | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
the next election. It will not be about the next election, it will be | :07:09. | :07:16. | |
about the economy. To not be ahead when things are really bad is bad. | :07:16. | :07:25. | |
If they do not find a boy soon they have missed an opportunity. -- a | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
buoys. You can be a toff and run the economy competently, people do | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
not want and incompetent leader, even if they come across as an | :07:35. | :07:42. | |
ordinary bloke like them. I guess we know why they're doing all this | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
building up - trying to build up his personality and character. | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
People getting to know him is the big issue of this conference. We | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
will find that out in a moment because we will go to the | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
conference. Now the big theme emerging from Labour conference | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
today is education. There's Ed Miliband's plan for a shake-up in | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
vocational courses, but there's also a big emphasis on the Labour | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
leader's own time at school. No, not the primary school he went to | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
with Boris Johnson, but the secondary school which he says | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
taught him to get on with people whatever their background. And just | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
to make sure no-one misses the point, Labour's going to show a | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
party political broadcast on television on Wednesday night | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
highlighting his school years. Here's a flavour. In the early 80s, | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
I was the deputy head of a local comprehensive school in the London | :08:29. | :08:37. | |
Borough of Camden. That is, of course, where I met Ed Bona -- Ed | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
Miliband. The education I got was so much more than have to pass | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
exams. It was about how to look after yourself, the world is a | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
complex place with people of all kinds and all nationalities - all | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
classes and races. That is the really important lesson in life. | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
make a journey like that from a local comprehensive school to | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
teaching at Harvard, you have probably got to have that knowledge. | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Coming from a comprehensive like I did, may be that does give you a | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
different perspective when you end up somewhere like Harvard. I do not | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
know. He came across as a very decent bloke. A few highlights of | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
Labour's latest party political broadcast there, and you may just | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
have got the message that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive. | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
If you have not come up watch it again on Wednesday. I would like to | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
check that! To discuss that film and the mood at Labour conference | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
in Manchester let's talk to Rosa Prince of the Daily Telegraph and | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
Rowenna Davis of the New Statesman. I am presuming you have seen this. | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
What did he make of it? It is very glossy and glowing - very Hollywood. | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
Also a bit strange. Do you really need to a head from the deputy | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
headmaster of Ed Miliband and his friend saying how good he was at | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
maths. Do we need to hear how he was a top professor at Harvard? At | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
one stage, Labour will accept they have got Ed Miliband, rather than | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
telling us all about his problems. Just get on with it and get on with | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
some policies and let's have something to hear from the rest of | :10:22. | :10:30. | |
the Labour team. That is a point of view. But Ed Miliband is trying to | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
do in that video is convinced the public that not all politicians are | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
the same. Public perception is that all politicians belong to the top | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
1%. He is saying, I have a story to tell. I was the son of migrants and | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
I went to a comprehensive school, which is very different from David | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
Cameron. It is interesting that most people have written him off. | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
Two years ago, Ed Miliband was considered impossible as Labour | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
leader. Bennett was inconceivable. Now it is possible, maybe even | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
probable. When half of Labour supporters are not convinced he | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
would make a Prime Minister, that Jenny has stalled if you like. Will | :11:16. | :11:26. | |
this help him cut through, which he has not done yet? -- journey. | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
year, he laid out a very philosophical vision about the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
nature of the country and responsible capitalism and the | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
squeezed middle. That was dismissed by everyone. Now it is the | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
competing grand that all parties are trying to win. What he has to | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
do is to present those terms in concrete and practical ways which | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
will resound with the people of the country. How we make a difference | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
to them in an everyday sense? you knew him better, you would like | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
him off - that is the point of this speech - and the point of this | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
movie. That is what they're trying to say. As much as they are trying | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
to say, this is Ed Miliband, get to know him and like him. They are | :12:11. | :12:21. | |
also trying to say that David Cameron went to Eton. He is cashing | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
in, though he is not going to say the word, pleb in his speech I he | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
is highlighting the difference he feels there is between the | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
Conservative Cabinet and his background. I been that is a bit | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
dangerous. To say that most people went to comprehensive school, | :12:40. | :12:47. | |
aren't I great? Do we not want a bit more grown up politics? Isn't | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
the real problem that people do not know who he is yet? They do not | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
know who he is. The most famous thing you could argue it is the | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
fight with his brother. Exactly the stuff we need to move on a debate | :13:02. | :13:10. | |
ENG keep telling the story. -- exactly. He will never be the | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
ultimate charisma politician. It will be about whether a trust can | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
win out over that sense of charisma. Ed Miliband has demonstrated he has | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
a set of policy ideas which resonate where people are at the | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
moment. If you keep telling that story over and again, he started | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
off from a position where he was considered a write-off and now he | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
has a voice and that form a way of talking about him today. I suppose | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
there is a case to be made and Ed Miliband is trying to say he is a | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
man of ideas was dug talking about being a nerd, to contrast | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
presumably with what David Cameron is trying to say and that is he is | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
a shallow. I think David Cameron does have a shallow problem. I'm | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
not sure if the solution is to say how intelligent Ed Miliband is. You | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
are right to raise the problem of David Miliband. The idea he is | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
awkward and not a real person. As well as the tangible effects of | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
having a family around, I think it played really badly in the public. | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
People thought, I would not do that to my brother. That will continue | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
to be something that plagues him. To go on about how bright he is and | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
how smart. We had a Harvard professor on earlier in the week | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
who talked about all sorts of strange things. I am not sure that | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
is the answer. I think he needs to do a little more of David Cameron | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
showing the family. I despise that as a means of campaigning but it | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
seems to work for David Cameron. Perhaps that would rip the toxic | :14:51. | :15:01. | |
:15:01. | :15:03. | ||
Pointy head is an American expression for intellectuals. The | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
mix in the administration used to talk about the pointy headed, | :15:07. | :15:17. | |
:15:17. | :15:24. | ||
That is what it is, pointy head. Consider this conundrum. You are an | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
ordinary comprehensive school- educated son of a Marxist professor. | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
You are lucky in intellect, but not in love. He joined a dating site. | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
Imagine your horror when you turn up and find out that your date does | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
not share your views on Prix Distribution, predators, producers | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
or anything beginning with the letter P. Ed is happily hitched now. | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
But love 6th Labour types need longer -- lovesick labour market | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
types need worry no longer. They are being encouraged to register at | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
leftwingdating. It even has suggestions as to where you might | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
want to cook up with like minded to potential partners, like a romantic | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
TUC demonstration, for example. The Daily Politics is not a dating | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
service, in case it escaped your notice. But we could for queue up | :16:19. | :16:29. | |
:16:29. | :16:29. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 82 seconds | :16:29. | :17:52. | |
Let's see if you can remember when To be in with a chance of winning a | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special e-mail | :17:55. | :18:05. | |
:18:05. | :18:07. | ||
address. You can see the full terms I think Ed Miliband went to wake | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
comprehensive... Education, education, education. Remember that, | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
from Mr Blair? What about vocational training, vocational | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
training, vocational training? It doesn't have the same ring to it. | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
But it is something we are expecting to hear a bit of this | :18:24. | :18:32. | |
Listen carefully. It seems everybody wants a bit of the France | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
dans l'ecole at the moment. We have had Monsieur Gove's idea of the | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
English baccalaureate certificate. And now Ed le Rouge wants to reform | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
qualifications in England with a new Technical baccalaureate. Guess | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
what, this would be a gold standard as well. He will say he wants to | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
focus on the forgotten 50% of school-leavers who do not go to | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
university. His aides say that only 1% of students on NVQ courses end | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
up with jobs on some courses. Students who take the new Technical | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
baccalaureate would also have to study English and maths as a strict | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
condition. Details are vague, but he wants businesses to have a role | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
in devising the courses. He also wants to give them �1 billion of | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
government money to reshape apprenticeships, which teenagers | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
can transferring to once they have got their Technical baccalaureate. | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
The shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Liam Byrne joins us now | :19:25. | :19:35. | |
from Manchester. Good to see you. Your education spokesman has | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
criticised the Government for returning to a two tier system. But | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
if you have, as you are proposing, one set of qualifications for | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
academic kids and another for everybody else, that might be the | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
right thing to do but it is two- tier in anybody's language? No, I | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
don't think so. It's about making sure there are very high standards | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
maintained and, indeed, created, no matter what route we take. Whether | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
it is a vocational or academic. We have a system today that gives you | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
a very clear path through, if you are taking an academic route. If | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
you are 14 and you want to go to university, it's a pretty clear | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
route. GCSE, A-levels, university, in to work. The same choice is not | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
so clear if you are 14 and you want to go to a vocational route and | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
into work. It's too complicated. We need to create a very clear route | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
through and make sure that there are world-class qualifications | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
available at 18. These changes we are announcing today are big ideas. | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
I think they have been welcomed right across the business community. | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
They are big ideas, interesting ideas. But it sounds like to tears | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
to me, may be trying to make those equal, and they have succeeded in | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
Germany in doing that, but I wonder if we could in Britain? How many | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
kids from Eton or Harrow do you think will want to take the | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
Technical baccalaureate? A I'm sorry, the sound quality is very | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
bad. I apologise. I was saying that what he described sounded like a | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
two-tier system to me. You were trying to make them of equal status, | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
but there are still two, and only the Germans have managed to make | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
them of equal status. I wondered if we could do that in this country. | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
For example, how many kids from Eton or harrowed do you think would | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
be applying to do the Technical baccalaureate? I don't know enough | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
about the aspirations, I'm afraid, of students at Eton. A lot of | :21:40. | :21:47. | |
people in constituencies like mine really hunger for that high quality | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
vocational route. If you take Jaguar Land Rover, a big plant on | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
the edge of my constituency, they operate apprenticeships right now | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
that are harder to get into than Oxford. What they want is the | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
wherewithal to expand the apprenticeship they have one of | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
careful stop giving business a much more direct and in how those | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
apprenticeships are shaped, created and expanded is something they are | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
going to welcome. Crucially, you have got to have people applying | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
for those apprenticeships that have the technical skills that | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
businesses like Jaguar Land Rover needs. We've got to get the | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
curriculum right and we got to make sure that maths and English is | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
sustained wall of the way up to 18 as part of getting the | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
qualification. I understand that and I understand you are involving | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
business as well. You have some money available, or you say there | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
will be, anyway. When Mr Miliband says he wants kids not only to | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
aspire to Oxford and Cambridge, but two excellent technical colleges | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
and delete vocational institutions. Can you name one in this country? - | :22:47. | :22:57. | |
:22:57. | :23:00. | ||
Of course, Britain has some of the best universities. Can he would | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
name an elite vocational institution? We got to give | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
business a much more direct say in the way that those institutions are | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
created. They are not going to be formed by business on their own or | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
buy the estate on their own. But the Government and business working | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
together stands a fighting chance of getting it right. As you hinted | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
like Germany have got this right. We know that the world is going to | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
become far more competitive over the next few years, as the rise of | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
China continues to change the environment for business. We do not | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
compete when we leave 1 million young people out of work, as we do | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
right now. I think there is one thing that it has shown, it is that | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
we need far more sustained effort to get young people into work. | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
Crucially, we need to make sure that young people are coming into a | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
competitive labour market with the right skills to do the job. Isn't | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
it indicative of the scale of the problem that you face, a problem | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
that has been with us since Victorian times, that whereas we | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
can all Niemi elite universities, you could not name an elite | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
vocational institution? I think part of the complexity has been | :24:11. | :24:21. | |
:24:21. | :24:21. | ||
that it is a very complicated Watt for education. -- route. If you | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
look at technical education, you get the sense that it is too | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
complicated. There are different qualifications which are good for | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
different types of trade. We want to bring some order to that, which | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
is why we are saying that business needs to be intimately involved in | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
figuring out what are the best qualifications for different | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
vocational routes and different trades in different industries. I | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
think that is what has been missing, that effective partnership between | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
government and business. That is something that we have not mastered | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
yet. I wish you luck on that, it has been a problem since the Royal | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
Commission in 1868 identified the problem. We will see how you get | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
going in trying to put it right. I want to move quickly on to the | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
polling, which shows Labour's lead down to 3% in the Independent this | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
morning. Even half of Labour voters do not think that Ed Miliband is | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
prime-ministerial material. That isn't great as a backdrop to his | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
speech? The polls had been bouncing around for a while. The cons | :25:32. | :25:39. | |
distant trend as you look back is up. I think we forget rather too | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
easily for the election result that we secured only a couple of years | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
ago. We lost 1 million votes in the last election. We lost the services | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
of over 90 MPs. It's one of the worst results in our party's | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
history. What Ed Miliband has done over the last couple of years is an | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
incredible achievement. If you ask people, which is the party that | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
most relates to my values, which shares my values, Labour | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
overwhelmingly wins. That is a radical shift of where we were two | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
years ago. Two years ago, two- thirds of working people said that | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
Labour was out of touch or seriously out of touch with my life | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
and values. The White People's Party, that was a hell of an | :26:19. | :26:27. | |
achievement. -- for a People's Party. Ed Miliband has shifted our | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
party up from anywhere between 8 and 10 points. I think that's a | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
hell of an achievement. I had two pollsters in the studio. Don't go | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
away. Is he right to say that the consistent trend is an increase in | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
the Labour lead? Not that we have seen over the last four was six | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
months. It is coming under pressure. I think the real danger for Labour | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
is that of but one issue, the economy, there has been no | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
appreciable change, no shift at all interested that top team on the | :26:58. | :27:08. | |
:27:08. | :27:09. | ||
Labour side over the past 18 months. To quote an old phrase, you can't | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
back a pig on market day. At some point, that figure has to come up | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
for the Labour vote to be solidified. Given the state of the | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
economy and the coalition, it's remarkable that people do not still | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
trust your party on the economy? think there is a growing sense that | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
the economy and the Government's economic plan has not worked out | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
well. A lot of people put their trust in this government at the | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
last election. They bought into the plan that was put on the table. Now | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
they are deeply dissatisfied with the way that it is turning out. | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
they still don't trust you. Well, look, we have still got a lot more | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
to do to convince people that we are the right team for the job | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
after 2015. What Ed has done is he has built a united team, he has set | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
the tempo for the political debate. People are going to look at what | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
specific policies we put on the table as we get closer to the | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
election. I think people have got a clear sense that this government's | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
economic plan has failed. They put us back into a double-dip recession. | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
The only other country in Europe in that position is Italy. What does | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
that mean for the debt? It means the death at the next election will | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
be �450 billion higher than the last election. That is not a bad | :28:29. | :28:39. | |
:28:39. | :28:41. | ||
job successful start don't go away. We will see to do something about | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
your sound. The boss of Britain's biggest union | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
and Labour's biggest financial backer, Len McClusky, has called | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
for Blairites to be kicked out of the Labour Party. We decided to | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
send Adam out with his balls. No where at this conference will | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
you see the word new anywhere near the word Labour. So, what should | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
Blairites do? Should they stay or should they go? Stay. Blairites | :29:08. | :29:15. | |
found their way to bring his party back into an exceptional form of | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
progressive politics. Why should they go? We need a fresh start, we | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
need to go in a new direction. It didn't do us any favours, we lost | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
will stop is the party Blairite enough for you at the moment? | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
probably about the right balance, the right level of unity. I am | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
writing a book about why Blairites should never be allowed back. | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
you like to give buyers a summary? They lost the traditional values. | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
We looked down our traditional constituency. We had appalling | :29:47. | :29:57. | |
:29:57. | :30:02. | ||
social housing policies. I never And I will put it in her. | :30:02. | :30:12. | |
:30:12. | :30:21. | ||
grasped it in an incident -- in an I think the moment there is a new | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
Labour government, Tony Blair will be addressing fringe meetings here. | :30:27. | :30:36. | |
Are there any Blairites still around? You still spot 12-year-olds | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
wearing suits. They seem to have a think about people wearing suits. | :30:43. | :30:52. | |
That is not good. I am wearing a suit. I am a Blairite, so I think I | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
had better vote for myself to stay. Is it lonely being a Blairite at | :30:58. | :31:05. | |
the moment? It would never be lonely. There are so many of us. | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
they have secret meetings? I had better not say on camera. | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
Miliband is absolutely right to go back to the 1945 experience. That | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
is what we need to do - get back and attach to our roots - in get | :31:21. | :31:29. | |
the job done. I'm not worried that that does not sound very modern? -- | :31:29. | :31:39. | |
:31:39. | :31:45. | ||
are you not worried? I do not think They were the people who got rid of | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
Militant for being too left-wing. They are a party within a party and | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
they have to go as well. I might just swap these around. That could | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
be derailed few within the party. have just seen the book by Tony | :32:01. | :32:09. | |
Blair. Is it going well? How many copies have you sold? So far, none. | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
Tony, it looks like your acolytes are welcome - mostly welcome. That | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
was our Adam with the Daily Politics moodbox, and Liam Byrne is | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
still in Manchester for us. I hope you can still hear me. A little bit. | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
I will shout out. We just watched that film. Someone talked about | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
Blairites having to stay in the closet, it is too dangerous for | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
them about in the wide open. Do you agree with that? I do not. | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
Labour Party has always been brought. We draw people from all | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
corners of the country. There are lots of shades of political opinion. | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
We basically agreed on the important things. We agree our | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
country is stronger when the pull together to help picture that out. | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
When you see an injustice, you do not walk past it kite you do | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
something about it. Why does the Unite General Secretary want to | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
kick the New Labour cuckoos out of the nest? I think different people | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
in the party will always have arguments within the party. That is | :33:18. | :33:26. | |
more than an argument. Who is he talking about? I think a couple of | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
people and the trade union movement had been concerned about one | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
organisation which I helped to set up many years ago. We will always | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
have arguments like this within the Labour Party. That is fine. | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
Sometimes they are important in establishing an important principle. | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
Reprint together lots of people with progressive views. Long may | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
the Labour Party continued in that spirit. It does risky new internal | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
war being waged. There were a large number of people being asked, | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
should Blairites go? You admitted Len McCluskey and others are | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
probably talking about you when they say Labour cuckoos are. How | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
does it feel? You will forgive me for saying this argument is | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
slightly fabricated. There is an enormous degree of unity across the | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
labour movement and a great sense of purpose. There is an enormous | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
amount of support for the programme we set out. In many ways, I cannot | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
remember a time when the Labour Party was as united as it is now. | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
There is pride in our record, a unity in the ranks and pride and | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
determination to do what we need to win the next election. Interns of | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
aspirational agenda, do you think Tony Blair would be pledging to | :34:53. | :35:01. | |
increase the top rate of tax? that again. In terms of the | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
Blairite aspiration agenda, would you and Tony Blair be supporting | :35:06. | :35:13. | |
reverting back to the 50% top rate of tax? Look, at the rate of tax, | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
both at the top and every point up to it, has got to reflect the state | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
of the economy - the job that needs doing on the Budget. It needs to | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
reflect what is at the core of the Labour Party, which is a sense of | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
fairness. When there is a job to beat down, as we have ahead, when | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
you have to get the deficit down and bring down national debt, | :35:38. | :35:48. | |
:35:48. | :35:48. | ||
Labour has been very clear. In the two get some judicious spending | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
cuts. Which you and Tony Blair back reverting to 50% top rate of tax? | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
Our position on tax is very clear. It was set out very nicely by it Ed | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
Balls yesterday. The state of the perks, I suspect, will be a dog's | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
breakfast. It is difficult for us to take snap decisions about the | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
right tax strategy, as we approach the next general election. That is | :36:15. | :36:22. | |
why Ed Balls was very clear. It will have to wait closer to the | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
time and be part of the zeroed they Spending Review. That is common | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
sense. It is sensible. -- 0 based Spending Review. That is how we | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
have bounce-back. That is why we will win the next election. If you | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
win, do you think anyone will leave you a note? I did not catch that. | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
Do not worry. Maybe that was deliberate. He was very good | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
natured in his inability to hear. What do you want to say? They had, | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
in Tony Blair, the most successful Labour politician ever. They have | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
these questions about whether they're welcome or not. It is | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
accurate to have this question. When you talk to Labour people, | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
they have them back to their factions. There is this argument | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
going on. It is why they are struggling to make headway in the | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
polls. They always talk about themselves. They talk about the | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
Labour movement and not about the nation. They talk about their | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
traditions and fairness, or comprehensives instead of the | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
economy. They're talking about the wrong things. Be a talking about | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
their own backgrounds. -- it they are talking. While it to spend time | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
talking about the background of Phillida when you should be talking | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
about the economy? -- why should you spend time talking about the | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
background of your leader? We are in the fight of our lives. That's | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
what the Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran told conference | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
this morning and that only Labour could prevent the breakup of the | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
United Kingdom and Scotland becoming independent. Labour are by | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
far the biggest of the unionist parties and are leading the cross- | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
party campaign to defeat the SNP's referendum on the question of | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
independence which is likely to be held in 2014. Here's more of what | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont the leader of the Scottish Labour | :38:16. | :38:25. | |
Party said to conference. We cannot afford to listen to those who said | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
the answers to the Scottish problems is to build a wall around | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
ourselves. The strength to overcome the challenges of our time come | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
from binding together, not breaking apart. That is as true of the | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
challenge we face as an Asian as cities of those we face in our | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
families, our towns and our cities. -- as a nation. That is what | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
separates us from the Tories and the SNP. Whether we are talking | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
about improving skills come at raising living standards or | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
deciding how we govern ourselves, we are led by one simple truth. By | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more together | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
than we achieve alone. This is not just a slogan that is written on | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
our membership cards. It is a truce that is within our hearts. We | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
believe it, we live by it, and, if we are honoured with the confidence | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
of the Scottish people at the next election, we intend to govern by it. | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
We are in the fight of our lives was up in 2014, Scotland faces a | :39:34. | :39:41. | |
decision about whether or not to break up Britain. A decision would | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
consequences for every Scot and every person across these islands. | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
In the years that followed, we will have to fight again when we faced | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
UK and Scottish general elections. On the one side, two parties a play | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
the politics of division. On the other side, the Labour Party, that | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
sees the strength in all of us to work together and succeed. It is | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
wonderful to be here in Manchester and to remember this is not a | :40:08. | :40:15. | |
foreign country. To people -- the people of this city face the same | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
challenges as the people across the whole of Scotland. It is wonderful | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
to be proud of being part of a Labour and trade union movement | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
which speaks up for people across the whole of the United Kingdom. It | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
speaks to a truce. It speaks to a truce that politics is about what | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
you choose to be and what you choose to aspire to. It is not | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
defined by way you are born but it is defined by what you want to do | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
for the people of this country. The Labour and trade union movement | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
will always speak up for those who need their voices to be heard. | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
Conference, at Scottish Labour is not afraid to be honest with the | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
people of Scotland. Not afraid to expose Alex Salmond and his tartan | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
Tories, he tried to wear Arab clothing, while punishing people | :41:05. | :41:13. | |
they should be protecting. -- our clothing. The SNP might not have | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
the courage to be straight with Scottish people but we do. What | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
Alex Salmond is doing with the Scottish finances is the equivalent | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
of putting the Gas Bill in the draw. We have all done it - not opened a | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
bill because we fear the consequences. We stuff it away and | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
the reminder and but by no notice. We know that never ends well. He | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
hopes we are not ask the tough questions about independence and he | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
is desperate we do not ask the tough questions of the here and now. | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
He knows that every Scottish family is bearing the cost of his slogans. | :41:54. | :42:01. | |
We all know that his budget will go bust. He hopes that somehow he can | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
keep the truth from the Scottish people until after the referendum. | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
I will not wait until after the referendum to be honest with the | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
people of Scotland. We need an honest debate now about how we | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
protect the most abominable from the cats. Not everyone is going to | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
like the solutions. -- the most vulnerable from the cuts. I'll be | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
true to Labour values that we will not allow those who most need our | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
support to pay the price for populist slogans. If we are to | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
assure the elderly get help and support it is our duty to give them, | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
we will have to ensure that those who have give to the have-nots. If | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
we up to make sure the potential of not one of our children is lost, | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
that means those with plenty must share for the common good. If | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
Scotland stands for anything, it is community. We, in Scottish Labour, | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
will put that community together, to stand as one and reject the | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
attempts by Alex Salmond to divide our society. The Labour Party | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
fights for the poor and the bar honourable. The Labour Party fights | :43:13. | :43:20. | |
for the strong and, together, the Labour Party in every part of the | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
United Kingdom to rebuild our nations and rebuild our communities. | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
Thank you, conference. That was Johann Lamont at the party | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
conference. What other numbers at the moment in terms of this | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
referendum on independence? numbers have not really changed. | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
Long-term studies show that support for independence there is between | :43:45. | :43:53. | |
around the quarter and about 35%. - - berries. It has been remarkably | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
static. Nothing has really changed. The campaign has been under way for | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
some time. It is not heading -- edging towards the majority. It all | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
depends on what happens in 2014, the date of the referendum. It | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
depends whether it is one question, two questions, are staged process, | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
whatever it is, we will be sure that it will mean another five | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
years of the yoke of Conservative rule for freedom, sunny uplands, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
self-determination. So far, the Scottish public do not seem | :44:33. | :44:40. | |
convinced. It will be again the economy, when to it? Johann Lamont | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
will try to set out the fact that Scotland, they feel, will be worse | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
separate from the rest of the United Kingdom and together. | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
will raise great fears. You cannot be be changed candidate - the | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
change message when everything is against you and people are | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
frightened. It is very hard to see any campaign, however brilliant, | :45:05. | :45:15. | |
:45:15. | :45:18. | ||
overcoming an almost two to one 90 minutes before Mr Miliband takes | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
the stage for his speech. We are back at 2:00pm on BBC Two for the | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
build-up. As part of that, we are joined by Sadiq Kahn. Welcome to | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
the programme. I hope that you can hear me all right. Are we coming | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
through loud and clear? Loud and clear. We really missed you in | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
Manchester, we were devastated yet that you are not here in person. | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
Let's see if you say that after this interview. Mr Miliband... I | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
can buy in the earpiece, if it gets tough. I think we had that before! | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
Mr Miliband is claiming that because he went to a comprehensive | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
school, he is in touch with ordinary people. Logically, that | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
means that Tony Blair, Harriet Harman, Jack Straw, Ed Balls, Chuka | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
Umunna, Clement Attlee, they were not in touch with ordinary people, | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
the way that Mr Miliband is? Now, look, Ed's link with ordinary | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
people is not because of his education. It is because of what he | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
believes in, what he does now as a person. But the importance of his | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
education is that it defines who he is. It's his life experiences that | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
dictate why he is so passionate about vocational training. He | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
remembers his mates that were not good at doing exams, thrown on the | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
scrapheap. That is what motivates him. It is part of what he is. It's | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
relevant and important to talk about his back story. He is | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
claiming, and he does in his party political broadcast, that because | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
he has been to a comprehensive he has a special connection with | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
ordinary people that these public school kids, including a Labour | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
public school kids, don't. If it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
anything? Look, I know you have been to an ordinary state school, a | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
local comprehensive, you make mates from all sorts of different | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
backgrounds. You understand challenges that you do of not face. | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
If you come from a stable home, but your mate does not, you get empathy. | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
When you grow up to be a politician, you get to understand more about | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
your constituents, the challenges that families have around the | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
country. I think what it is doing in today's speech is telling the | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
country who he is, where his family came from, his early life, why it | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
is important to who he is today. But it's a bit of an insult to the | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
British people to try to bake out that Mr Miliband is just one of | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
them, an ordinary British person. You and I know he is as much as | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
part of the elite as Mr Cameron, just a different elite. How many | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
kids of his age went home after school to socialist dinner-parties | :48:00. | :48:08. | |
with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali? Did you? One of the criticisms that you | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
and others make is that the country doesn't know enough about Ed | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
Miliband. That is the reason why, Ed is trying to tell the country | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
about himself. But he's not giving us the true picture, he is giving | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
as a distorted picture that he is one of the boys. From his | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
background, his father, his dining companions, he is North London | :48:29. | :48:36. | |
Labour aristocracy. If you go to the sort of school that Ed went to, | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
many of your viewers went to, you have a different life experience to | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
someone at a public school. That is a fact. We're not going to | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
caricature or Ed based on his education. We are going to tell the | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
country about the importance that was to who he is. He understands | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
the challenges that young people face today. He understands that if | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
you don't get a job at 16 or 17, there is a danger you're thrown on | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
the scrapheap. He understands that some people are good at exams, so | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
they go to the best universities, nothing against that, but some | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
people don't. He emphasises with people who do not. That is why he | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
is passionate about changing the way we treat people that don't go | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
to good universities that want to get vocational training. If that is | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
the raison d'etre of the Labour Party, how come, after 30 years of | :49:23. | :49:30. | |
Labour government, at Mr Mellor and's comprehensive, Haverstock, | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
52% failed to get 5 decent GCSEs? Not good enough, and we should be | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
doing better. That is appalling. There were more people doing better | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
up at school in 2010 than 9097. But the progress that should have been | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
made was not made. There were people going to university in 2010 | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
that would not in 1997. There were all people doing apprenticeships. | :49:54. | :50:01. | |
But you are right to criticise us for not doing enough. So we need to | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
learn what we did right and what we did not get right as well. That is | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
why we need to make up those things that we did not get right as we | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
should have done. Do you think emphasising that he went to a | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
comprehensive school, do you think that will mean that more than two | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
out of 10, as the polls show at the moment, will regard him as prime | :50:22. | :50:29. | |
ministerial? I think the wartime people spend listening to Ed, the | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
more they understand about him, the more they will think he was prime- | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
ministerial. Did you go home to dinner with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali, | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
as a kid? I think I would have preferred to be in my a playground, | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
and having supper with those guys. Maybe that does make you normal. | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
But it was not the experience of your leader. | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
I am glad you could hear us. That's for joining us. I am glad that you | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
are missing me. Aloft, aloft. Please come back next year. -- a | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
He did sound genuine, even after the interview. | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
Not log until the Labour leader gets to his feet. You can watch it | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
here. In the years since Mr Miliband last addressed the | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
conference we have learned about prey distribution, predators and | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
producers. It is like being in one of his Harvard lectures. | :51:22. | :51:32. | |
:51:32. | :51:42. | ||
This time last year, few people thought Ed Miliband was on the road | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
to Downing Street. If you had said the words Prime Minister Ed | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
Miliband, many MPs, including Labour MPs, would have giggled. Few | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
are laughing today. The idea has been taken seriously as a | :51:54. | :52:01. | |
possibility and, by some, as probability. So, what has changed? | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
His predator and producing speech at the conference was an important | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
restatement of social democracy, yet was widely mocked because he | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
failed to adequately explain what he meant. Are you on the side of | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
the wealth creator or the asset strippers? The producers or the | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
predators? Producers trained, invest, invent, sell. Things | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
Britain does brilliantly. But not enough. Predators are just | :52:27. | :52:37. | |
:52:37. | :52:43. | ||
interested in the fast buck, taking But, since then, he has motored. He | :52:43. | :52:51. | |
headed the convoy, calling for Sir Fred Goodwin to be reduced to plain | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
old Fred the Shred. He accelerated, by demanding that the State Bank of | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Stephen Hester must not withdraw a huge bonus. There is no question | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
that Stephen Hester has done a decent job. But you don't just need | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
to do a decent job to get a �1 million bonus when everybody else | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
is having living standards hit. hit top speed by a demanding that | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
Bob Diamond of Barbara Barclays account be closed over the rate | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
fixing scandal. I don't believe the current leadership of Barclays can | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
take it to the current crisis. They have presided over a culture in | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
which this behaviour happened. his biggest breakthrough was from a | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
stroke of political luck. George Osborne's half baked pasty tax | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
budget, a gift for Labour, as well as for millionaires. Let's have | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
some tax transparency. Hands up in the Cabinet if you are going to | :53:44. | :53:53. | |
benefit from the income tax cut. Come on! The undermining of the | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
coalition's we are all in this together justification for | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
austerity was a windfall for Labour. The party did well in May's local | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
elections. They were winning councils even in the south of | :54:04. | :54:14. | |
:54:14. | :54:14. | ||
England. Government shambles and big Labour poll Leeds saw a newly | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
confident Ed Miliband confront David Cameron at Prime Ministers | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
questions, bashing the MP over his links to the Murdoch empire. When | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
he refuses to come clean on his and the Chancellor's meetings with | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
Rupert Murdoch, the shadow war sleaze will hang over this | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
government. He also came up that a good line to deflect Tory attacks | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
of Labour's links to the unions during the public service pensions | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
rights. The difference is, unlike him, I'm not going to demonise the | :54:40. | :54:48. | |
dinner lady, the Clean Air, the nurse. -- cleaner. People who earn | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
in a week what the Chancellor pays for his annual skiing holiday. | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
has freshened up his top team, promoting bright new faces such as | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
Chuka Umunna, the shadow Business Secretary, and they shadow Treasury | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
brain Rachel Reeves, both untarnished by the Blair-Brown | :55:08. | :55:18. | |
Yet doubts continue to persist about Miliband. He likes his party | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
in the polls and, two and-a-half years is a long, winding, potholed | :55:24. | :55:31. | |
road in politics. Opponents exploit tensions between Ed Miliband and Ed | :55:31. | :55:39. | |
Balls. The mocking odd Ed jibes no longer sting. His job is not under | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
threat, as it was last year. But what would Labour do in power and | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
who is Ed Miliband? Quite a lot of people seem not to know. I hope | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
that we will get David... I hope that we will get Ed Miliband | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
elected as Prime Minister. This deal is far from sealed. An | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
unsealed deal can be reversed. Stephan Shakespeare, if you look | :56:03. | :56:12. | |
back at the year, we saw their clips of things like Rupert Murdoch, | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
Ed Miliband's response on bank as bonuses, have those things actually | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
helped improve his ratings, or the party ratings? Have they worked? | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
think they have. If you look at the monthly polling, you see his | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
numbers going up. They are still buyer, let's not forget. But | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
they're going up, month-by-month. - - they are still dire. He is doing | :56:35. | :56:40. | |
that, by attacking the Government. That is the money shot, as it were. | :56:40. | :56:48. | |
It is not by biggie himself up, it is attacking the Government. They | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
have seen that and they like that. He wins there, there might be | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
little spikes in his favour. But what Stephan Shakespeare is saying | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
that he needs to do more to say what Labour would do, what he would | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
do and what it would mean. Does that come through? It does. For | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
Labour to do better, it requires two things. Firstly, they have got | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
to be clearer about what they stand for, what they would do and, also, | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
how they have learned the lessons of the past. They don't just appear | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
in a vacuum. Though it has come to this with the baggage of what | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
happened in 2008 and 2010, how Labour left the coffers. The other | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
thing that they can do is explore it those opportunities that the | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
Conservatives have given them. The most significant one of the last 12 | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
months has been the budget, which was calamitous. You saw the Tory | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
polls just go down. And they haven't really recovered. George | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
Osborne's ratings have not recovered. They did try to | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
capitalise. But they did not capitalise enough in terms of | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
sustained poll ratings? That is where I disagree with Andrew. I | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
don't think it is about what Labour would do instead. It's two and-a- | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
half years out. They've got a lot of time to build up the policy | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
front. They need to get the bashing of the Conservatives, over and over | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
again. That is what a score. People are feeling frustrated, they are | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
expected, in opposition, to do that. It's quite interesting. Bennett is | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
a case of timing. That is where the debate lies. Should it be more | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
conservative bashing or should it be more about themselves? But you | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
don't have time to answer. Say goodbye! Thanks to both of you. The | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
One o'clock News is starting on BBC One in a moment. Don't forget to | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
switch back because we will be here in an hour on BBC Two to bring you | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
live and uninterrupted coverage of Ed Miliband's conference speech. We | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
are going to get ready for that. It's only an hour. We have taken a | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
leaf out of Ed Balls book. He said he prepared for his speech at the | :58:47. | :58:51. |