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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. In the words of | :00:43. | :00:50. | |
Monty Python, he's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy! Or is he? | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
Boris Johnson has hit Birmingham. The City has not seen anything like | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
it since Ken Dodd played the Hippodrome in 1965! We will be | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
speaking to the man himself, Boris, not Ken Dodd! | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
The attention has apparently not been good for his ego but we | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
thought we would add to the further anyway. He has got everything, he | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
keeps the crowds, he makes us all happy. | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
We will be talking to this man about how he will keep the health | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
service healthy. He is not from the FA, he is the Health Secretary, | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
Jeremy Hunt. And burglars beware - householders | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
in England and Wales will soon be able to defend their home and | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
family without fear of prosecution. As Nick Robinson said, we have gone | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
from hug a hoodie to bash a burglar in under two years. | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
All that is coming up in the next hour, with us for the duration the | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
former Secretary of State for Scotland, Michael Forsyth. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
Let's talk about the economy, Michael Forsyth takes a big | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
interest. It dominated conference yesterday, until Boris Johnson | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
arrived! A report from the International | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
Monetary Fund, the IMF, did not make happy reading for the | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
Chancellor this morning. Its latest World economic Outlook, the IMF | :02:14. | :02:23. | |
says it expects UK economic output to shrink by 0.4% this year, and | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
that will be followed, it says, by a rise of just over 1% in 2013. | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
That is also a downgrade. This is what the Prime Minister said. | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
Obviously these are difficult times for the economy, and what the IMF | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
report is doing is coming into line with other forecasters who have | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
already said growth will disappoint right across Europe this year. We | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
know that. But the IMF also say we should not abandon our plans of | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
making reductions in government spending and also, regrettably in | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
some cases, putting up some taxes to get on top of our debt and | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
deficit. We do not new palm be, what we are doing is making sure | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
that every part of plan A is firing on all Senate -- cylinders. | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
The Prime Minister. Contrary to some reports, the IMF | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
does not say to the government you have to change the plan now, but it | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
says if growth continues to be as bad as it is now, you will have to | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
change? That is embarrassing? have not read the report, but | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
usually they are pretty hedged about, I am not surprised there are | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
nuances. I think we have got fixated with reducing the deficit, | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
of course we have to, but the way to reduce the deficit is to get | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
growth going again. I think what was lacking in a speech from the | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
Chancellor was any indication other than the scheme for equity and | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
small businesses, any indication of how he will get smaller and medium- | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
sized businesses running ahead. That is the only way forward. | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
does not, in a sense, have strategy for growth? It feels a bit like Mr | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
Micawber, he hope something will turn up when the numbers come out. | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
I think we have to be more radical, looking at tax reductions and | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
finding ways to finance them. Instead of putting off the spending | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
cuts, we should perhaps look at other ways of making reductions in | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
public expenditure, it seems to me. On overseas aid where there is a | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
37% increase planned, even if they still wanted to go ahead, why not | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
defer that rather than cutting people's benefits? Similarly, if | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
the Government believes that we should reward people in work and | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
not those on benefit, what were they doing increasing benefits by | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
5.5% when what we should be saying is that benefits will be increased | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
in line with the growth and wealth of the country, and that means that | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
we will not be able to do RPI. It does not seem as if there is any | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
appetite in the Treasury, or in 10 Downing Street, for a radical | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
supply of reforms? The traditional Tory recipe would be to say, look, | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
let's make the taxes flatter, let's cut them and get rid of all the | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
complications, all the loopholes - which, by the way, is what the tax | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
avoiders use. It is so easy to be a tax avoided because the tax code is | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
now so complicated. But I see none... I agree with you, and when | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
we were in opposition and I did the Tax Reform Commission, he said to | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
me, I want a simpler, flatter, fairer system. But he has | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
complicated the system and has not done, as you have described, he has | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
not taken the action necessary to broaden and lower the tax base. | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
There was a very good passage in his speech when he defended the 45% | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
reduction, arguing it would mean more money and less pressure on | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
poorer people. The same argument could have been done for lowering | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
it to 40%, and the same argument applies to those being pushed into | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
paying 40% tax, the middle earners. The result will be you will get | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
less revenue and that will make the deficit worse. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
He made the tax code more complicated yesterday by announcing | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
that if you are prepared to give up employment rights, or most of them, | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
and you are a new work in a company, you can get shares in the new | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
company and will not pay capital gains on them. What did you make of | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
that? I couldn't work out what problem he was trying to us all. If | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
the problem is that people want to take on workers but they are not | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
sure, particularly young workers, whether they will perform and | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
whether it will be very expensive to fire them because they will | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
threaten to go to a tribunal, with enormous legal costs, I don't see | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
how do having a scheme of giving them shares in the business to give | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
up their employment rights will be in the interest of employer or | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
employee. They end up in shares with a company that they can't deal | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
with... They can't sell... incentive apparently is you will | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
not have to pay capital gains tax, but everyone has a �10,000 capital | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
gains tax allowance before they have to pay any, so that does not | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
see much of an incentive. I just wonder what problem he is trying to | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
solve. Other than I have to say something to the Tory party | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
conference? I forgot that. People can get up to �50,000 in shares, | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
but for many companies it would be a lot lower. You might get �10,000 | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
worth of shares, any capital gain you get is tax free, but even if | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
the value of the shares doubled you would not have paid tax anyway? | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
if you are starting a business the last thing you want to do is give | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
away equity, because if the business grows, that is their way | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
in which she will race money. If you have given it to a load of | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
people you have subsequently hat -- sacked and who hate you, you have a | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
big problem. I don't think this is addressing the issue, the cost of | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
taking people on and if it does not work reaching an agreement with | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
them to leave. Similarly, it seems the big problem we have and the | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
economy at the moment his confidence, and taking away | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
employment security from people is not a way of increasing confidence. | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
Wasn't it at one of the things in the report? A suggestion? I read in | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
the newspaper to date that he said it was one of his ideas, but I have | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
not seen it. Ruth Davidson is currently Leader | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
of your party in Scotland. She said yesterday it is staggering a public | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
sector spending makes up 50% of Scottish GDP. But only 12% are net | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
contributors, so the average Scottish household consumes over | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
�14,000 more in public services than it pays in taxes. These | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
figures may be true, but was that her Mitt Romney moment? Deadliest | :09:02. | :09:10. | |
governor Ron the only insulted 47% of Americans -- at least governor | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
Mitt Romney only in some third. think it could have been phrased | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
better. She is right that there is a high dependency on public money | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
in Scotland, but the way forward is to encourage more small businesses | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
and enterprise. I think to accuse people on the public sector pay | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
roll of being dependent on the stage, we are talking about doctors, | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
nurses and so one, they spend money and pay VAT, I think it is an | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
unfortunate way of presenting it. Mitt Romney said he had expressed | :09:46. | :09:56. | |
:09:56. | :09:57. | ||
himself inelegantly, we will file that under eye for inelegant. | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
she is saying that public expenditure is unsustainable in | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
Scotland, that is a good thing. This was very public, I don't think | :10:05. | :10:12. | |
she could get away with it! Let's cross to the Conference and speak | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
to the political editor of brats the magazine and the editor of the | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Spectator. The speech from George Osborne was sombre and serious, | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
there was a muted response, was it the right speech for the moment? | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
think he had to make a feel bad speech for two reasons, obviously | :10:28. | :10:36. | |
you knew the IMF reports was coming and it would have looked odd to fly | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
over Birmingham scattering �10 notes from a helicopter. But he is | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
preparing for a year ahead which will be focused on a spending | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
review, cutting billions from public spending, I think he is | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
seeking positive agreement and warning people what is coming. | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
Surprisingly, he resisted the temptation to say that things are | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
tough but we will make them better. He was seeming to say that there is | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
not much we can do, we will make things worse for some other be able. | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
Fraser Nelson, how did that sentiment go down with the | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
grassroots Tories? Lots of them would have liked to have heard a | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
progress message, and George Osborne's main announcement of the | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
rather peculiar employee share capital gains thing has lots of | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
flaws which Michael just detailed, it did not have them skipping down | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
the aisles in delight. George Osborne has no good news. If he had | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
a serious announcement he would say that until December. He has a Pre- | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
Budget Report. Normally everyone likes to light up the Conference | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
with a big gismo but it is currently bear. Often people will | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
feel they are heading for defeat because there has not been a | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
recovery and there has not been a recovery because George Osborne | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
could have done better with the growth strategy. There are no | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
prospects. I suppose you could credit him with honesty? But it has | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
been lit up by the arrival of the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson. | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
There is a media mania around him, is that all it is or is he an does | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
he pose a threat? I don't think it is just whipped up by the media. I | :12:19. | :12:20. | |
think Boris is the perfect contemporary politician in some | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
ways, a politician for a time when we hate politicians. He taps into | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
the electoral bone that Nick Clegg did last time, we do not regard him | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
as one of them, he gets away with things other politicians do not. | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
Who else could get away with making jokes about the Soho sex industry | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
and calling Michael Gove AJA cloth?! He has a sense of humour | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
which is incredibly disarming and diffuses hostility. He is a massive | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
consumer of oxygen at the conference, but I think we all know | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
what happened to Cleggmania. What does it do to David -- to David | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
Cameron and his standing? We have a strange dynamic, Cameron and Boris | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
both admit the tension between them, Boris said the other day it is | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
somehow good for the Conservatives because it stops people talking | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
about Ed Miliband. It is a morale- booster, at least. You should see | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
their faces in the hall, the audience reaction is more telling | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
than Boris's speech, they are smiling as they queue, smiling as | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
they listen, smiling as they are on their way out. Somebody has to give | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
them a morale-booster. It is like a Shakespearean tragedy when you | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
bring in a comic figure halfway through to cheer the audience, that | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
is Boris's role. Cameron needs that to make the Conference a success. I | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
don't think anyone could look at this beach and say he was sticking | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
a knife into Cameron. It was good, it did what it had two and David | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
Cameron after smiling like everyone else. It must have lifted all the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
spirits. What about the response to Ed Miliband? Have they answered the | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
One nation slogan, an attempt by Ed Miliband to move onto the centre | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
ground or to move the centre to the left? Both parties now say they are | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
formally on the centre line and you cannot move for mentions of one | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
nation here. They don't agree about where the centre ground is, Labour | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
thinks it has shifted left and the Tories think it is to the right. | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
What we saw from Boris was a response in terms of... Are not | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
going on endlessly but talking about the bread and butter issues | :14:31. | :14:41. | |
which most of the people are interested in. Thank you both. | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
It is David Cameron's birthday! # Happy birthday to you! | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
So we have prepared a birthday quiz. The question for the day is what | :14:54. | :15:04. | |
:15:04. | :15:05. | ||
has Samantha Cameron promised the Is it a game for his iPad, a curry | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
dinner, a night out with Herman van Rompuy, that is what I have always | :15:10. | :15:20. | |
:15:20. | :15:23. | ||
wanted, or a Boris Johnson voodoo I think I know the answer! | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
Now, it is not about him. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
and all the attention is bad for his ego. Who am I talking about? No, | :15:33. | :15:39. | |
not not Simon Cowell, you numpties, Boris Johnson, of course. Do the | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
Tory faithful really want BoJo as their next leader. Only one man, | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
our Adam, has the balls to find out. There is no indication David | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
Cameron is going anywhere, if the Tories did need a new leader who | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
would they turn to Boris or anyone but Boris? Probably Boris. | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
Why? Because he has a great personality and people like him. | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Great. Our first Boris fan. It has got to be Boris. He is very | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
popular. Fair enough. He did do that thing | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
about Hillsborough, the article about Hillsborough. It would have | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
to be anyone, but. Boris Boris's past is coming back | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
to haunt him. He is not a statesman, he is a | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
fabulous person for the party, but I can't see him being a statesman. | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
He has got everything. He has got honesty. He makes us all happy. Yes, | :16:38. | :16:48. | |
:16:48. | :16:48. | ||
Boris. Thank you very much. | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
The vodka party is on Tuesday evening. | :16:56. | :17:03. | |
That old ambassador's trick. I must practise... I must practise | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
my Boris more. He is not actually Russian, is he Turkish? Yes, he is | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
Turkish actually. You have got similar hair to him. | :17:12. | :17:22. | |
:17:22. | :17:23. | ||
Are you part of the family? I could I am a fan, but it is not anyone, | :17:23. | :17:33. | |
:17:33. | :17:34. | ||
but Boris. Future leader? Someone else. | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
I would vote for Grant. If it were between Boris and anyone else, | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
Boris or anyone but Boris, I would back Boris. Boris or anyone but. | :17:45. | :17:55. | |
:17:55. | :18:02. | ||
She doesn't like Boris. I love Well, I just popped into the | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
exhibition hall because I hear somebody has stolen our idea. Look | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
at this! Oh well, back to the less exciting | :18:11. | :18:21. | |
:18:21. | :18:21. | ||
balls. Who do you have as a future leader, but Boris or anyone but? | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
All I can say is that Boris is a wonderful man to work for and I | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
enjoy what I do for him enormously. Well, Boris, you have got a fair | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
few detractors, but the majority of people are happy to have you as the | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
future leader of the party if anything should happen to David | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
Cameron! I think you are cheeky and | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
troublesome and just appealing to people's nature by doing this. It | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
is very entertaining, but I bet you haven't had one MP put anything in | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
there. You would be surprised. That's the | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
best review I have ever had. should be very flattered. | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
"Cheek Y and troublesome" some of us live for reviews like that. | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Boris has been speaking to the conference this morning. Let's get | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
a flavour. You showed that we can overcome a | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
Labour lead and win even in places which Ed and the two Eds are so | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
cocky as to think they own. If we can win in the middle of a | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
recession and wipe out a 17 point Labour lead then I know that David | :19:27. | :19:37. | |
:19:37. | :19:38. | ||
Cameron will win in 2015 when the economy... | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
APPLAUSE Where is Dave? There. There you are, | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
Dave. I know that Dave will win in 2015 when the economy has turned | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
around and we are already seeing signs of progress. When people are | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
benefiting from jobs and growth and the firm leadership you have shown, | :19:55. | :20:05. | |
:20:05. | :20:07. | ||
the tough decisions you have taken. Happy birthday by the way. Happy | :20:07. | :20:17. | |
:20:17. | :20:21. | ||
birthday by the way. APPLAUSE | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
I was pleased to see that you have called me a blond haired mop in the | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
pages - well a mop is what I am. Well, if I am a mop, Dave, you are | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
a broom, a broom that's that's cleaning up the mess left by the | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
Labour Government. I con I congratulate you and your | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
colleagues and your colleagues George Osborne, the dustpan and | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
Michael Gove the jay cloth and William Hague the sponge. But it is | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
the function of Conservative Governments to be the household | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
instruments to clear things up after the Labour binge has got out | :20:58. | :21:06. | |
of control. Well, it is only fitting that the | :21:06. | :21:15. | |
Brillo pad should interview the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson. | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
I thought we would be helpful and allow you to to clear up a few | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
things. Let me begin. Go on. Do you rule outstanding for | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
Parliament before the end of your term as London mayor in 2016? | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
As I've said many times since the election and many times before the | :21:35. | :21:42. | |
election, the job of mayor is an engrossing one. It is the most | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
wonderful job in British politics and London has elected me for four | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
years to deliver jobs and growth, to do everything I can to get the | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
city growing again and growing strongly and keep fighting crime | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
and deliver my manifesto. I had a nine point plan I'm going to | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
deliver. It is going to take four years, plus we have got to get the | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
benefits from the Olympic investment. | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
So do you rule outstanding for Parliament? | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
Yes. It goes without saying that it is not possible to do, you know, I | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
have got to sell the people of London. | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
If any Tory constituency approached you to be their candidate before | :22:27. | :22:35. | |
2016, the answer from you would be a categorical no? I think your | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
chances Andrew, which have always been excellent in my view of being | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
approached by a Tory constituency as their potential saviour are | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
better than mine. OK. It is not going to happen. | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
But... The you were chairman of the Scottish young Conservatives. | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
No, you were wrong, but you have been wrong several times on that. | :22:55. | :23:03. | |
Coming back to my question... always makes me cross... Can I just | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
be clear if a Tory constituency approaches you between now and 2016, | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
to stand to be their candidate, your answer is a categorical no? | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
is and I've said that before and I have got a wonderful job to do and | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
I want to do it. When you seize to be London mayor | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
in 2016, will you run again for Parliament? Well, by that stage it | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
is really very difficult to say what I will be doing and what I | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
want. So three or four years time, that's a long time in politics. | :23:39. | :23:49. | |
What I I want to do and Ken Clarke for all his sort of slightly | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
intestimony pratt language made a good point about things that are | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
needed in in London. People want to see crime being brought down. They | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
want to see jobs and growth and that's what I want to do. | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
OK. You say you are, these are your words, "Healthy competition with Mr | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
Cameron." What are you competing with him about? | :24:13. | :24:21. | |
I thought those were his words, but anyway, I think the point is the | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
difference is not important. What matters is the public don't feel | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
that I am just going to sit on my hands if there is something | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
important that London needs to get done or some important interest of | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
the city that I need to get across even if it means that the plaster | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
comes off the ceiling in Downing Street or elsewhere across | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
Whitehall. There are controversial proposals that we have seen for | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
mansion taxes from the Lib Dems, extra wealth taxes which would | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
affect London and Londoners. We have got a real problem now with | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
aviation capacity. I want to push ahead with solving that problem in | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
particular. There will be arguments inevitably for any Mayor of Any | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
great city is going to have with the Government in charge and I | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
wouldn't wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't put those points across | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
as forcefully as I can. The best thing for - the point I always make | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
here, is the best thing for the UK economy as a whole is to invest in | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
London. Build more homes in London. Invest in London Transport and you | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
will drive the rest of the UK economy. | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
Do you support an in/out referendum on Europe now? | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
I see no particular reason to have an in/out referendum now. What I | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
certainly think you cannot do is go forward to amendments to the EU | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
fundamental constitution to the, to create a fiscal union as it is | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
loosely called using the Brussels institution, the commission, the | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
Luxembourg court, the Parliament, using those institutions which are | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
held in common without putting that reform to the people of this | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
country. We cannot go ahead in my view to a political fiscal union in | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
Europe without that being remitted for proper public debate and a | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
proper vote in this country. That's what I support. | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
So what should the choice be? Should it be, "Here is a new | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
settlement we have negotiated with Europe? You can have that are you | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
can leave Europe?" What would the choice be? Well, what I would like | :26:34. | :26:41. | |
to see - it depends what, where we are at. What I would certainly | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
advocate is a no vote to further moves to fiscal integration, Andrew | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
because I don't think... understand that. I don't think | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
those are sensible and you will appreciate that point. I think if | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
if following that, following that it may very well be that people say, | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
"Well, what is the British relationship with the EU?" Where do | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
we really stand? At that stage I certainly think that it would be a | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
good thing to have a systematic repatriation of some powers and | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
there is no earthly reason why that cannot be done. There are all sorts | :27:16. | :27:22. | |
of variable ge om tee that abouts been set-up over the years within | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
the wider European area. There is no reason why Britain shouldn't | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
benefit from a new relationship. Do you support a cut in the top | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
rate of tax to 40% now? Well, I think it is politically | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
very difficult to deliver now and I understand the objection that are | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
raised by everybody and I can see that it would not be easy at a time | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
when people are suffering, when you are trying to cut welfare bills and | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
cut welfare schemes and all the rest of it. That is absolutely | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
plain. But would you still like to do it? | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Let me, what you can't do endlessly is allow Britain to be competing | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
with one hand tied behind our back compared to other tax jurisdictions | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
which are extremely challenging for us at the moment. They are going | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
ahead with all sorts of things that we are not able to go ahead with | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
and I don't want to see us charging more in tax than all our main | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
rivals. Why should we pay more tax in Britain than in France, than in | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
Germany, Switzerland, I think even in Italy? We are starting to get to | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
a situation where we tax uncompetitive and that really needs | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
to be addressed and it is a difficult argument. I accept that | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
people won't like to hear, but it has got to be made. Again, that's | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
the kind of point that you have got to make as Mayor of London that | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
isn't necessarily welcome in Number Ten. | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
Do you agree with the ring-fencing of the big London banks to separate | :28:59. | :29:08. | |
retail from investment banking? Well, there are, what I'm generally | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
opposed to are measures that are taken, unilaterally and you would | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
have to look at the detail of whatever Vickers is suggesting. I | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
am opposed to measures that disadvantage UK financial services. | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
Is that what ring-fencing does? have we have being going through a | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
long period of bashing financial services. Two million people work | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
in business and financial services around this country. It is a huge, | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
huge proportion of the economy and we can't endlessly keep bashing it | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
for political reasons. I would be wary of measures that shoot | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
ourselves in the foot and aren't replicated across-the-board. | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Do you agree as a good Tory that even as defence spending is being | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
axed, spending on foreign aid should be rising by billions? | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
You know, I don't, I am not responsible for either of these | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
budgets, but what I would say... Well, you are not responsible for | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
the 40% tax? London is a city of huge range of people's | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
nationalities, 300 languages spoken in our city, many of them, of | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
course, have contact... What's the answer to the question? | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
With people around the world and I do think that it is important that | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
we do what we can to give people in the developing world access to | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
hygiene, sanitation. I understand that. Should we be | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
adding billions to foreign aid when defence is being cut. I will ask | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
again, should we be adding billions to foreign aid when defence is | :30:54. | :31:04. | |
:31:04. | :31:05. | ||
On defence spending, you could argue the toss on each individual | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
line. I'm asking for the principle. I'm in the convinced it should be | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
sacrosanct and you need to spend money on this or that but on | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
overseas aid, I think you are making a poll emical comparison. On | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
overseas aid, I think there is an argument. You should look at how | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
the money is spent. I don't want to see money being taken from poor | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
people in rich countries and Given to rich people in poor countries. | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
wanted a yes or no. It was a complicated question, if I may say | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
so. I thought it was simple. Maybe foreign aid wasn't top of the | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
ageneral d at Eton. Should David Cameron have sacked Andrew | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
Mitchell? I say! Say it again. Should David Cameron have sacked | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
Andrew Mitchell? I think that was a matter for the Prime Minister. | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
know that, but what is your view? Between him and Mr Mitchell. He has | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
plainly apologised and cleared the matter up. Frankly, that story went | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
on for quite long enough. Should very been fired? If one of your top | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
people have done it, would you have fired them? Well, you know, I don't | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
propose, with the best will in the world to get dragged back into a | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
story that I have already commented on extensively. I have said before, | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
I don't think it is right to insult police officers. I think people | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
should be arrested for it. understand that. That wasn't what I | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
was asking. It is a free country. didn't have the opportunity to | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
interrogate Mr Mitchell myself. That was something the Prime | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
Minister did. It is a free country, if you don't want to answer the | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
question, you don't have to. Let me move on. What has been the toughest | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
decision you have taken as London Mayor? There have been several | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
difficult decisions, but I suppose I would single out the decision to | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
ask the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police service to | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
think about what else he could do and to give others the chance for a | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
new leadership at the Met. There are all sorts of difficult | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
decisions you have to take. doesn't sound that tough, does it? | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
I think, as my owe pon sent never tired of pointing out during the | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
election campaign -- opponent, I have been owe bliedged to take | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
tough decisions on the cost of transport -- have been obliged. | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
asked for the toughest. There you go. Thank you for that. When you | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
are at the centre of the media circus as you are and have been in | :33:40. | :33:50. | |
:33:50. | :33:54. | ||
Birmingham, who is it that whispers in your ear, momento mori? Memento. | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
We never knew how the Latins pronounced it. Who puts in your ear | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
that you are plainly mortal? Look, there are plenty of people to make | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
that point. Who? I go back to what I have been saying. Abundant people | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
in this very conference. Who? you know, all these people standing | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
around me. I think most don't know Latin. Let me move on. For the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
aindividualance of doubt - -- aindividualance of doubt - after | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
you have been Prime Minister of Britain, do you rule out being the | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
President of the United States? -- avoidance of doubtment Andrew this | :34:34. | :34:41. | |
is getting beyond satire. You don't rule it out? No, but you are asking | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
me... You could be, you were born an American. My chances of becoming | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
Prime Minister are as I always say - about as good as me being | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
reincarnated as ang olive. My chances of being the President of | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
the United States after being Prime Minister, I think, you know, no | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
better than yours, let me put it that way and probably considerably | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
worse. Constitutionly I couldn't run as President since unlike you I | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
wasn't born in the United States. You could get a green card. Stop | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
filly bustering again. The most important question of the day - | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
what have you bought David Cameron for his birthday? Well, I think the | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
most important thing that any of us here can do is just to point out | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
that this is the right Government for this country... No, what have | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
you bought him? They are going in the right direction. What have you | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
bought him, Boris? What have I... I think I hope you will - I don't | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
know whether you had a chance to watch what I had to say, I was able | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
it wish him a happy birthday and a hope for many years in office to | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
come. I haven't yet lashed out on a present that's bus like you... | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
you telling the people of Britain, Mr Mayor, that you have not bought | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
the Prime Minister a birthday present? Is austerity so bad? | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
Andrew, I will if you will. I'm not allowed. Wait. I tell you what, I | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
did give him a present, it popped fortuitously into my head. I was | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
able to give him a preb. I will send you won as well, Johnson's | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
Life of London available in all good bookshops, a fantastic read | :36:21. | :36:29. | |
which I'm sure you will enjoy. Now out in paperback. Excellent. I have | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
always regarded you as a modern Bosswell with a funny accent. Thank | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
you very much. We will now work out how many questions you answered. | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
They were very difficult. That's what I got paid for. The last time | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
I looked you got paid to answer them. Whether you did is another | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
question I did my best. It is always interesting to interview the | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
mayor, isn't it? How many did he answer? I thought he did pretty | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
well, actually. You obviously spent the entire morning thinking of all | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
the beastly questions you could ask him. The point is... The point is | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
that he comes across as completely authentic, which is why he is so | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
popular in the conference. He doesn't hedge about. He answered | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
your questions as well as he could. Well if he has got ambitions beyond | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
being Mayor of London, will he not have to - he will have to learn to | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
do more interviews like that, which I know we had a bit of fun at the | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
end, but the stem of the interview was on serious issues, and he will | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
have to learn to answer them seriously as well. And I think he - | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
I thought he did that brilliantly. He was amusing and then when we | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
came to the serious questions like Europe and so on, he gave you a | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
very clear idea of what was required. Really, what did he say? | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
He said that... He didn't want in and out. He didn't want in and out | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
referendum. But if there was going to be a federal Europe that the | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
British people had the right to have a say on whether they wanted | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
to be part of that and that the Government had to look to bring | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
some powers back from Brussels. British people won't be asked if | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
they are going to be part of a federal Europe. The Government will | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
try to do a new deal which will be different from a federal Europe. So | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
what will the question then be: we have a new deal, we have a new | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
arrangement, a more arm's length arrangement with a federal Europe, | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
so we could have that or we could leave, isn't that the question? Or | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
could we have that and be a full federal union, what is the answer? | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Well I agree with that. I agree with that. I think you have to have | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
a renegotiation. It is that or it is out. I think if you are | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
negotiating, the people on the other side need to know that's the | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
alternative. That's not where the Government is. I got a strong | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
impression he is not in favour of the Government policy of ring- | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
fencing the retail operation of the banks from the investment or what | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
the politicians sneer at, the casino element. I think that's one | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
of his strengths. Did you get that impression Yes. I think he said he | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
doesn't want to let the City of London be disadvantaged compared to | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
other competitors. I think it is brave of him to say that and I | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
think it is because he says things like that, that they like him. I | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
call it the Blair system, it went through the system, when politics | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
are what people want it hear and people say that. He doesn't do that. | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
He does it in an amusing and an easy manner. During the elections | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
for the GLC a youngster said to me - are you going to vote for Boris | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
Johnson. I said "Of course I am he is a Conservative." He said, "Oh my | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
God is he a Conservative as well, that's marvellous." Could you see | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
him as Prime Minister? Yes, I could. So you could see him as the next | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
leader of your party Well if we lost the election, it is a | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
possibility. Do you believe him when he says he won't run for | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
Parliament before his term as mayor ends? I think he was right to say | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
that three years is a very long time away. It doesn't the most | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
categorical reply I had. It was the only reply he could give you, if he | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
had any sense at all. All right. Thank you to that. Are you Are you | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
looking forward to your book? will see if it is that or another | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
broken promise from the mayor. Later this afternoon the Justice | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
Secretary, Chris Grayling, will announce that home owners in | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
England and Wales, who attack burglars will not face arrest or | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
prosecution unless they use grossly disproportionate violence. I | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
managed to speak to Mr Grayling earlier and began by asking the law | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
needed to be changed? We keep getting this debate each time an | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
incident happens.Er if tune ately they are not that common but they | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
do happen from time to time. Each time they happen we have this | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
debate about the law all over again. The current test is, is your | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
behaviour reasonable? I want to raise the bar, in recognition of | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
the fact that people do hit out in high pressure situation and that | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
the law needs to, I think, treat people who are in that position, as | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
the victims of crime, not the perpetrators of crime. What happens | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
all too often is they are arrested and put in the police cell and | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
there is a lengthy debate about whether they should be charged or | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
not. I think from moment one people should act that unless they act in | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
way that's grossly disproportionate, the law should be on their side. | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
You say they are prosecuted and put in jails. What are the numbers? How | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
many people have been prosecuted and put in jail for using | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
disproportionate force? Over the years, thankfully, these cases are | :41:44. | :41:50. | |
rare. You do get people going to trial, and getting sent to jail and | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
then released because the courts decided they should not have been | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
put in jail. But I think the spopbt that people who face an intruder in | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
their homes are victims not perpetrators of crime. There is a | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
debate about prosecuting them, they may be brought before the courts | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
and acquitted but the point is to raise the bar so that the natural | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
assumption in the Criminal Justice System is that the law is on their | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
side, unless they act in a way that's grossly disproportionate. | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
For example if the burglar is out cold in the kitchen floor and you | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
get a knife and carry on stabbing them, that would be grossly | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
disproportionate. Short of that I want people to feel confident they | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
have trite protect themselves in their homes. But the law according | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
to Lord Chief Justice and Ken Clarke would, cover for that. The | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
Lord Chief Justice said "You can phrase it in different way bus the | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
reality is that the householder is entitled to use reasonable force to | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
get rid of the burglar." Even if you set the bar higher, that will | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
still be the same? I have talk to the Lord Chief Justice about this. | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
I'm grate to him for the comments made. A strong signal coming from | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
the judges is a big help. He says you don't need to change the law. | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
What he said actually is that the householders' rights should be | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
clear and strong. He said it is. I'm raising the bar, so there is no | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
question about this any more. said yourself the numbers are very | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
small about householders being prosecuted and sent to jail, it is | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
not a big problem you have said that yourself. The Lord Chief | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
Justice has made it clear that he is happy with the law as it stands. | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
This is just about good headlines. The Lord Chief Justice didn't say | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
he was happy about the law as it stands. What he said, is what they | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
need as judges, is to send a strong message. That's right and proper. | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
I'm saying, as a politician, is that I think we need to set the bar | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
higher than it is at the moment, so there isn't a debate about whether | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
someone's action were reasonable in the situation, and so they are not | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
in a danger of being put in a police cell rather than being | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
treated adds witnesses and victims to the crime I'm saying only in an | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
event where the actions are grossly disproportionate, should there | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
really be a debate about whether it was disproportionate or not. | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
September 2008 there were two brothers who were convicted for | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
chasing after an intruder and beating him with a cricket bat. | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
Would you count than as "disproportionate force, but | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
wouldn't be prosecuted under your suggestions?" Look, I'm not going | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
to get into applying this principle to individual past cases. This is a | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
past case. Why not? I don't think it would be sense I will. I'm | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
looking to the future and saying we have had over the years numerous | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
cases where there has been a significant debate about what is | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
permissible and what is not under the law. Would that have been | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
permisable, Chris Grayling? I'm not going to apply - because I didn't | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
sit through that particular case, I don't know the exact circumstances. | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
It wouldn't be right for me to say db this is exactly how the law | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
would have applied in that case. -- thiss exactly how the law would | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
have applied. I'm setting a bar which says to the police and | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
prosecuting authorities, that the default should be that you are on | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
the side of the householder, that the householder isn't charged, | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
doesn't come before the courts, unless they use grossly | :45:14. | :45:24. | |
:45:24. | :45:27. | ||
disproportional force in response He couldn't tell me how the law | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
would be applied. I think each case has to be looked on its merits by | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
the court and they have got to look at the circumstances and I'm | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
looking forward to seeing the drafting for the legislation he | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
proposes because I think it is very difficult to write down in | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
legislation something which will cover the range of cases of which | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
you gave examples. But he is following the sentiments of the | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
country that people feel they should be able to act reasonably in | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
their own homes, but the examples you gave of chasing somebody down | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
the street with a baseball bat that is clearly not a reasonable way to | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
behave. Under the law as he is suggesting | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
that would be allowed. You would be allowed if you felt that was | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
disproportionate, but not grossly disproportionate? The would have to | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
say it would be disproportionate. What he is trying to do is send a | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
signal so the judges will give guidance to the courts and that's | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
sensible, but whether you can actually write it down in | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
legislation, I think the principles are clear and have been clear for | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
sometime now. Do you think it is headline | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
grabbing? It certainly gets headlines. | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
But not a lot more than that. The argument here is really the Lord | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
Chief Justice is saying it won't change from what the law is now. | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
Each case will be looked at individually, whatever Chris | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
Grayling says and wherever he wants to set bar, it will not change | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
anything? But I think if people are arrested because they acted | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
reasonably in their own homes and put in the cells, that is | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
unreasonable behaviour, but that's a matter for guidance rather than | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
legislation. Thank you. The Government has planned to | :47:03. | :47:09. | |
reform the NHS in England proved controversial and politically | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
difficult and claimed the scalp of Andrew Lansley. Junt has been a-- | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
Jeremy Hunt has been addressing conference and we will speak to him | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
shortly. This is what he had to say. So let me start by saying about | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
Andrew Lansley's reforms. They are brave. They are right and they will | :47:30. | :47:40. | |
:47:40. | :47:50. | ||
make our NHS stronger. Andrew is here. | :47:50. | :47:51. | |
APPLAUSE The centralised structures make it | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
the fifth largest organisation in the world. Smaller than the Red | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
Army, but bigger than the Indian railways. Conference, we will never | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
meet the challenges we will face with over one million people trying | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
to meet 1,000 targets to satisfy one Secretary of State sitting | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
behind his desk in Whitehall. We know what happens when you do that, | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
don't we? We had the perfect case study under Labour. 48-hour GP | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
appointments targets, that made it harder, not easier, to see your GP. | :48:19. | :48:27. | |
Billions wasted on NHS IT contracts. To believe in the NHS is to believe | :48:27. | :48:36. | |
in its reform. Not my words, but those of Lord Darzi Labour Health | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
Minister under Andy Burnham. Now he is in opposition, Mr Burnham sings | :48:41. | :48:47. | |
a different tune. Let me try out a little quiz on you. Last week at | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
the Labour Conference, Andy Burnham complained about foundation trusts | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
setting their own employment conditions in the south-west. But | :48:54. | :49:02. | |
guess who was Health Minister when the Act enthis Rhining those power | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
got Royal Assent. Guess who was it? Andy Burnham. He went on to | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
criticise private sector involvement in the NHS, but who was | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
the Health Secretary who ensured that a private company would run a | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
district general hospital for the very first time? Who was it? Andy | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
Burnham. He railed against so- called cuts, but whilst we are | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
increasing the NHS Budget by over �12 million, who was the Health | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
Secretary who went into the last election saying it would be | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
irresponsible to increase the NHS budget. Who was? Andy Burnham. The | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
first rule of opposition, Andy Burnham, criticise what the new lot | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
do, not what you do yourself. Jeremy Hunt joins us from | :49:49. | :49:56. | |
Birmingham. Mr Hunt, a newly appointed minister said the | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
Government had screwed up the presentation of the NHS reforms. | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
What will you do differently? Well, I think I made it very clear. | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
Good afternoon, Andrew, by the way. I made it clear in that speech that | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
I am a very big supporter of Andrew Lansley's reforms. He will be seen | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
as the architect of the modern NHS and I am a big supporter of them, | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
but what we need to do, having had a debate about structures, is to | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
talk about how those structures can deliver, improved outcomes for | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
patients and what I was doing this morning was talking about some of | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
the things the improvements in the way we look after people with | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
dementia for example. The improvement in survival rates for | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
cancer and other diseases where we are below the European average and | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
those new structures will help help deliver improvements that people | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
can see on the ground. So we are moving into a different phase now | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
where we talk about what people can see changing in the service they | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
get from the NHS. But the Chief Executive of the | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
King's Fund told us in a year or two's time, the Health Service will | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
do very well indeed just to maintain its current standards of | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
patient care. So if we don't get your improvement, there will be no | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
improvement on the presentation? Well, we have got to do both. The | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
public want the NHS to deliver more and better, but they want it to | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
maintain its current standards, but the King's Fund are right, we have | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
the massive challenging of an ageing population as I mentioned in | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
my speech, there are more more pensioners than children. We have | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
two-thirds of the people who are getting consultant care in hospital | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
are over the age of 65. That's a big challenge for the system. The | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
reforms will help us, but we need do other things as well because we | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
are living longer. It is good news, but that brings with it, a host of | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
other really, really big challenges. But there are reports that one in | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
ten accident and emergency areas are closing and labour wards are | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
closing at that rate too. If that is happening, that is hardly going | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
to help your presentation, is it? That's a presentational disaster. | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
Well, there are parts of the country where local doctor groups | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
are saying that they want to run services differently because they | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
think they can get better outcomes for patients and we have a system | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
that we test whether those changes will improve patient choice, | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
whether there is good evidence to show they will improve mortality | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
rates, whether there has been proper consultation, whether it is | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
what local doctors want and then in certain cases if it is high-profile, | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
it will end up on my desk and I will take independent advice about | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
them. Those changes are parts of the system saying we want to do | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
things better. It is not about cuts. We are putting �12 billion more | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
into the NHS over this Parliament than the last Government did... | :52:44. | :52:50. | |
that in real terms or nominal terms? Well, in real terms NHS | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
spending is going up, but by a small amount. | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
Yes. This is the point the King's Fund | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
are making, the demand on the system is going up by 4% a year. | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
Yes. That's because of the factors that we were talking about. So in | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
order to stand still if you like we have to have productivity | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
improvements of 4% a year and I think these new structures and | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
reforms will help that, but I want to raise our standards, I think we | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
should be the best in Europe for dementia care. So the fact is that | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
your �12 billion of extra spending is a propaganda figure because it | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
doesn't take into account inflation. This year health spending will be | :53:31. | :53:41. | |
:53:41. | :53:43. | ||
lucky to rise by 1% in real terms from �103.1 billion to �102.8 | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
billion. Next year, how much will health spending rise as planned | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
next year in real terms? Well, what we have done... No, how much? | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
no, no, let me answer your question if I may. You suggested it was | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
propaganda. We have protected the NHS bug, Labour, Andy Burnham said | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
that that it would be irresponsible to increase the spending in the NHS. | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
We are increasing it, but effectively not by a huge amount, | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
we are protecting the NHS budget and that is when the rest of | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
Government spending overall, we are cutting spending by 19% across all | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
Government departments. That is a huge commitment that this | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
Government is making to the NHS because we know how much health | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
matters to every family in the country. Mr Hunt under your | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
Government's pro projections, health spending next year in real | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
terms will rise by �60 million. �60 million on a budget of �103 billion. | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
How much is that percentage wise? You are increasing the budget by | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
0.05%. It is peanuts. In the context where there are | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
public spending cuts in every other Government department, it is | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
incredibly significant that in real terms this Government made a big, | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
big choice to protect the NHS budget because we know how much it | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
matters and you know... You said you would increase it every year? | :55:07. | :55:14. | |
Well and we are increasing it by... By 0.5%. Well, I think | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
You never told us that. The point that we are we are making | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
is when we are having to make cuts when cuts across the world are | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
having to make cuts in public spending, the one area we have | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
taken a choice to protect is the NHS. That is because it matters to | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
the British people. It means that other Government departments had to | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
have deeper cuts and it is a choice that Labour wouldn't make. Indeed, | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
in Wales, whether Labour run the show, they didn't make that choice | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
and the NHS budget has been cut. If we're going to get the outcomes | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
that I was going to talk about this morning, we are going to improve | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
our survival rates from cancer, for example, from liver disease, from | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
respiratory diseases then we need to show that commitment in the NHS, | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
but we've done it because we think it is what people want. | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
Wheng -- when you were the Sports Minister, you trained as a linesman | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
and we have seen you doing that recently. Now that you are the | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
Health Minister, what are you going to train as? You are are you going | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
to try to be a brain surgeon? think that might ablittle bit | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
optimistic. I don't know what you think. I agree with you. | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
I will probably leave that one, but I am incredibly thrilled to to do | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
the job I am doing and I want to throw myself into the NHS which is | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
a fantastic system. I hope you come back. We had more | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
questions, but we are sadly coming up to one o'clock. I hope you will | :56:36. | :56:42. | |
come back and see us during the week or on a Sunday when when we | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
can go through the health figures carefully. | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
Did David Cameron do the right thing in promoting Jeremy Hunt to | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
Health Secretary? He is a good communicator and he will deal with | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
a difficult brief. The problem is that the demands in the Health | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
Service are going to outstrip the resources and yes, you can make it | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
more efficient, but we are going to have to look at other ways of | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
bringing income into the NHS and I am afraid, I mean I have free | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
prescriptions in Scotland. Why have I got free prescriptions? It is | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
unaffordable and I think he has got a tough, tough job ahead of him. | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
He was brought in to take the heat out of this issue after Andrew | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
Lansley, putting through the ri forms -- reforms. Will he be able | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
to do it? I thought he got off to a ropey start by starting an abortion | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
about the abortion limits because that irritate his colleagues in the | :57:36. | :57:43. | |
House of Commons. It over shadowed the preconference | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
coverage. The Government is not intending to do anything about this. | :57:46. | :57:53. | |
It was an unfortunate row. I think what he has to do, he has has to | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
spell out what the priorities are in the Health Service and take | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
people how it is as we have to on the economy. We have to level with | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
people. You can't have all these things and at the same time not | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
have any money. No. All right. Well, it is just | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
time to find out the answer to our quiz. What has Sam Cam promised | :58:10. | :58:20. | |
Dave for his birthday, a new iPad game, a curry, a night out with | :58:20. | :58:27. | |
with Herman Van Rompuy or voodoo doll? I think a curry. | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
Certainly not the night out with Herman Van Rompuy! | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
Thank you. Thank you for being with us today. | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
Thank you to our guests, the One O'Clock News is starting now on BBC | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
One, but remember today at conference tonight with James | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
Landale. That's after Newsnight. Tomorrow, we are on at 11am. It is | :58:49. | :58:55. |