Browse content similar to 26/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. On the show today: | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
Fancy being a teacher? The Government's about to make it that | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
little bit harder by demanding aspiring teachers take a test in | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
maths and English before they start training. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
After the good economic news yesterday, Tory MPs are warning of | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
a backlash against cuts to child benefit due in January. We'll talk | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
to one of them. Should the European Parliament stop | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
its monthly trek from Brussels to Strasbourg? We'll report on the | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
latest campaign by MEPs to keep the Parliament in one place. | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
And it's the great Government sell- off, as Francis Maude announced the | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
sale of Admiralty Arch in central London for �60 million. But what | :01:17. | :01:27. | |
:01:27. | :01:32. | ||
will become of it? We'll reveal all All that in the next hour, and with | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
me for the first half hour today, we've got some top talent from | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
Fleet Street. They're the new Sonny and Cher of daytime TV - it's Anne | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
McElvoy of the Economist and Philip Collins of the Times. Don't worry, | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
you won't have to sing. Let's start with the news this | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
morning that people who want to become teachers will face tougher | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
tests in English, maths and reasoning before they start their | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
training. The Government says it wants tests to be more rigorous to | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
raise the quality and standing of teaching. Charlie Taylor is the | :02:06. | :02:16. | |
:02:16. | :02:17. | ||
chief executive of the Teaching When you look at the most | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
successful education systems across the world, Finland, South Korea, | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
Singapore, they set the bar very high in terms of the people they | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
allow into teaching and teaching is a high-status job. What these tests | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
do is to say, we want to get the very best people into teaching. | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
And we've been joined by Alice Robinson from the Association of | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
Teachers and Lecturers. You must welcome this? I think all teachers | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
will welcome anything that will help raise standards. I'm not sure | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
tests of these nature will achieve that. Because they will be too | :02:51. | :02:58. | |
simple? No. There are a huge range of issues over becoming a graduate, | :02:58. | :03:05. | |
people have demonstrated that they have GCSEs, they've then completed | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
their degree. I think the Government, one of the things they | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
said they would do was reduce bureaucracy. They've now introduced | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
another level of assessment. They have demonstrated they don't trust | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
the GCSE results, they don't trust A-level results, and now they are | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
saying they don't trust the universities. You have to make sure | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
they can read and count. I'm fairly certain the universities would have | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
insisted on that before they granted firsts, honours degrees and | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
so on. You can get that in Latin but you don't have to be able to | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
read English. These are exams where there's a 98% pass rate. If someone | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
can't pass an exam with 90% of the rest of people, they don't deserve | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
to be a teacher. You have to ask the question, why do you need this? | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
Why don't we have a tougher exams on maths, the basics of maths and | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
English and reasoning on top of the degree before you get into | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
teaching? The reason why places like Taiwan and Finland have such | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
strong education systems is because they pick the best and brightest. | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
That is not completely the case. is in Finland. In Finland, they | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
give teachers a huge amount of autonomy, significant pay... | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
honours graduates. They don't have to do an additional test. I think | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
people will be amazed, every reform Labour or Conservative governments | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
try to make, the teaching unions always oppose it. This is simply an | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
attempt to make sure... I can insure -- a sure you, we employ | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
them. People come out of university and they don't know good spelling | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
or gram and they don't write very well. Why should we not ensure that | :04:56. | :05:04. | |
teachers have that ability? Right. If that is the case, why has | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
Michael Gove said that teachers in academies and free schools don't | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
have to have Q T S? One of our issues is around there's not any | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
consistency. You're against it because everybody is doing it. | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
Would you be in favour of it if he said everybody had to do it. Her I | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
would have welcomed consultation. You would still be in favour? | :05:26. | :05:34. | |
not true. The union I represent... If the Government have based this | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
evidence on a report produced by head teachers. I represent head | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
teachers. I am an assistant head. Actually, the people who do the | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
monitoring, the people who do the mentoring of student teachers, our | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
classroom teachers who do pick up on things. In a small number of | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
cases where people are not as numerate or literate as they should | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
be, they are picked up on and told it is not good enough. There are | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
issues around that. There are a huge number of entry pathways into | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
teaching now, teach first, P G C, a graduate training programme. There | :06:15. | :06:23. | |
is a myriad of entry... slightly flabbergasted by this. I | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
can't see what is wrong with saying to people who are going to educate | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
our children, in primary school or for sophisticated skills, that you | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
must have as half -- high-standard of rudimentary maths and English. I | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
have seen reports where I've wanted to put a red pencil around the | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
grammar of the teachers. This happens because we let it go. As a | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
system we let it go. Not only the teaching unions are responsible, | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
but they are to some extent. Successive governments didn't pick | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
it up. We are now right on it and Charlie Taylor is right to be | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
saying lots of other countries... I do a lot of comparative work about | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
education systems. In most countries this would not be in | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
issue. I agreed with that. We will get on better than Sonny and Cher! | :07:14. | :07:21. | |
In the air years. Thirtysomething else. The best systems also have a | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
very rigorous -- rigorous aptitude test for teaching, which is a skill | :07:26. | :07:33. | |
in itself. The best systems make it very hard to get into teaching, but | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
quite easy to get out. If you've got a teaching certificate in some | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
countries, that is sort of -- thought of as a very distinguished | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
thing to have. If it doesn't work out for you, people going to very | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
good professions because that is a badge of honour. Anything that can | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
help us move towards that has to be a good thing. I entirely agree with | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
what you've just said about attitude and that is one of the | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
issues around a lack of consultation on this very basic | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
test. Being a good teacher is around having a passion, a real | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
understanding and an ability to communicate verbally with your | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
students on a level they can understand. It is around aptitude. | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
We would welcome somebody sitting down and saying, let's look at how | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
we can best screen students, graduates, going into teaching, to | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
demonstrate a wide range of skills, not just picking on one thing. | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
Probably ban the phrase around aptitude to start with. It is | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
slightly baggy language which goes around process and structures. That | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
language hides what is going on and a lot of the education debate is | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
affected by it. We have to raise the level of what we do in | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
education and anything that gets under way... They are supposed to | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
have great degrees, but there's a big problem about what universities | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
are doing in education. There are too many pathways, we don't know | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
what is good, bad and indifferent, and the elite universities are too | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
far away from training teachers. You have a status problem. You will | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
be allowed to fail these exams three times and still be a teacher. | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
Coney 98% of those who apply, not everybody. -- Only. So Statistics! | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
If there's a 98% pass rate on GCSEs on the ones they are trying to do | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
to the level that is required, and even if somebody wants to be a | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
teacher who fails to reach his pass rate the first time, as part of the | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
to do so that did not get it, they can sit it again and again. Most | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
people would say actually, to become a teacher, the tests should | :09:47. | :09:55. | |
be tougher. We want a proper consultation about the whole range | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
of how students are selected to become teachers. You love | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
consultation in these unions rather than a system that will give kids | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
the best possible chances. Her that is what teachers want. Really? | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
Certainly. I was an assisted head and what I wanted in my school was | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
to employ the best possible teachers. In it would surely | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
increase the status of teachers if you had a really tough test that | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
had a high barrier. That would be good for teaching. Not want that is | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
just introduced on a very narrow set of issues. The Government | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
proposes a lot of things that never see the light of day! | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. Nick Clegg met the President of the | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
European Council, Herman van Rompuy, yesterday. But what language did | :10:44. | :10:54. | |
:10:54. | :10:57. | ||
And we'll give you the answer a little later in the show. | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
After yesterday's good news on the economy, there's going to be some | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
less welcome news for thousands of families next week as the | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
Government prepares the ground for another cut to benefits. If you are | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
lucky enough to earn more than �50,000 a year and have children, | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
you'll get a letter from the taxman you'll get a letter from the taxman | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
next week along with 1.3 million others. But it might not make happy | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
reading. It will tell you that you have a choice either to surrender | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
your child benefit altogether or that you will have to repay part of | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
the benefit, or all of it if you earn over �60,000, when you fill in | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
your end of year tax return. The Treasury thinks that the change | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
will save them around �2.5 billion a year. But it will also mean an | :11:39. | :11:46. | |
extra 500,000 people filing self- assessment tax returns. And a | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
number of Conservative MPs have expressed their concerns, warning | :11:48. | :11:57. | |
that the system will be "fiendishly complicated". But the Government | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
claims that taking benefits from the rich as well as the poor will | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
show that "we're all in this together". Well, this policy was | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
first announced at the Conservative conference way back in 2010. Let's | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
remind ourselves how George Osborne remind ourselves how George Osborne | :12:10. | :12:20. | |
:12:20. | :12:21. | ||
tried to sell the idea to his party. A system that taxes working people | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
at high rates only to give it back in child benefit is very difficult | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
to justify at a time like this. It is very difficult to justify taxing | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
people on low incomes to pay for the child benefit of those earning | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
so much more than them. These days we've really got to focus the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
resources on where they are most needed. We've got to be tough, but | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
fair. That is why we will withdraw child benefit from households with | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
a higher rate taxpayer. When the debts left by Labour threaten our | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
economy, when our welfare costs are out of control, this measure makes | :12:58. | :13:07. | |
sense. APPLAUSE that was the Chancellor in 2010. | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
There was a bit of a backbench -- backlash even at the conference. | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
With us now is the Conservative backbencher Mark Field. Welcome | :13:15. | :13:25. | |
:13:25. | :13:26. | ||
back to the Daily Politics. MP for Westminster. I am indeed. You've | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
got a mixed constituency. You've got a lot of people on average | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
incomes, and a lot of well-off people. Is there ahead of her steam | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
building? There is, partly because there's some have confusion because | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
the policy has changed. I believe in getting the deficit down. As a | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
moral case as well as any economic case and I have always supported | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
any measures that we have that will reduce public spending. We need to | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
be wise before the event. We know there are some big institutional | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
problems with this policy. Looking at the practicalities, the Way We | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
Live Now is very different. People have consultancy incomes. They | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
don't know what they're going to earn during the year. This policy | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
will mean that anyone in a household where you earn �50,000 a | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
more will see a tapering away off that child benefit. If they earn | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
�60,000, they will have nothing. You'll have perverse invoices -- | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
incentives to put invoices in later. You have divorcing couples. | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
Wouldn't it be easier to say if you on the 40% tax band you don't get | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
child benefit? One of the easy things might have been to say you | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
will only get child benefit for a certain number of children. But you | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
couldn't do that with those on existing child benefit. Iain Duncan | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Smith was saying we would like this to be the case for future parents | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
of families, not for two. He is. That will not save much. I would | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
not be too surprised if these policies were co-ordinated in some | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
way. The worry with this policy, we've talked about raising �2.5 | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
billion, a huge amount of money will go into administering this | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
system for up to you don't think the saving will be 2.5 billion? You | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
will have to write off a lot for the reasons I've set out. It is | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
almost a tax on aspiration. If you are on �40,000 a year, you aspire | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
to earn �50,000, and you might lose something. If you have three | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
children and you earn between �50,000.60 �1,000, for the tax | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
could be 65%. The Government says we are all in this together. It has | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
cat housing benefit for those on the low end of the income scale. It | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
is making it harder for people on welfare benefits, forcing them to | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
look for work. They are making it tougher. They are also looking for | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
another 10 billion of cuts in welfare. Surely your traditional | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
supporters, who are probably in these income groups, they will take | :16:05. | :16:15. | |
:16:15. | :16:18. | ||
some of the pain. Some title lead I think there is a very strong case, | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
and I totally agree with George Osborne, trying to get this deficit | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
down at for moral reasons... understand that. You're not | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
prepared to go along with it, the saving, because nobody is going to | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
start as a result of this change, nobody is going to be homeless. | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
don't think it will be two-and-a- half billion. We also see the other | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
concern, problem, which is stay at home mothers are being distance and | :16:47. | :16:55. | |
devised in the sense that if one person is being earning 60,000,... | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
That was the original complaint. have more sympathy with a laugh | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
complaint which is terrible. It sends a terrible signal to women | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
from the party. I can't see a reason why this benefit exists for | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
people earning quite well. Although it's very complicated, to get rid | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
of an entitlement, but I thought we were trying to change the way we | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
look at the welfare state. I can't really see the principle. I'm | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
surprised to see that you don't see it actually not a good idea to have | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
this idea of benefits as pocket money given to certain groups, | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
unless they are in need. You need to bite the bullet on that. There | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
is not well between two different ideals and the welfare state. The | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
last word you'd used was need. The welfare state has become the | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
welfare state of need. Contribution, as you contribute, you should get | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
something out. It's absurd at a time when we haven't got any money | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
as a country, we are transferring money to the state to people who do | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
not need it. That's bizarre. If we save 2.5 billion, as its measured, | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
there we go. It is future entitlement as well. You don't want | :18:13. | :18:21. | |
to take the pain it now. I have got 16 and a half more years with my | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
young daughter. The other issue is this. 40 years ago, when this | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
benefit came in, it used to be a tax allowance, the state making a | :18:32. | :18:40. | |
stall -- small statement saying its good for children to be invested in. | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
The money was going to be in hands of mothers exclusively. I want to | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
get the deficit down. There's been a lot of controversy about this and | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
I think it will raise far less money than we think. Wouldn't a | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
radical conservative government raised the threshold where the 40% | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
clicks and, because, in real terms, it was meant for very well-off | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
people, now average middle-class people, raise it and say, you are | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
going to keep more of what you earn, if you are aspiring, but the child | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
benefit has gone? You could do this. The argument about earning at a | :19:18. | :19:26. | |
particular level were applied and part of the difficulty is that, in | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
trying to raise money, it's all very well the rich having to pay, | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
but there are very much more middle earners. Is it going to happen? | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
sense is it might be delayed. The sensible thing would to started in | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
at the next tax year. He needs the money. Come back if it is delayed | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
and talk to us. Thank you. He has got his daughter outside now, | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
putting a child benefit in a top pocket. How old is she? Six months | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
old. She's already spending the money! Get your bookings in early. | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
The iconic Admiralty Arch, it's at the end of the Mall leading to | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
Trafalgar Square, is being turned into a hotel after the government | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
flogged it off for �60 million. There it is. It was billed only 100 | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
years ago. No, it's not part of a government policy to make sure | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
super-rich tourists have enough places to lay their heads. But part | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
of a reorganisation of property that's paid for by the tax payer. | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
Here's our Adam, who's hoping for a job as a chambermaid. | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
Who would live in a house like this? Admiralty Arch was built 100 | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
years ago in honour of Queen Victoria and has been a crucial | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
prop in that state occasions ever since. It's also been a home for | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
Sea Lords, and a prime ministerial strategy unit, but no longer, as a | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
news conference, the buildings 99 year lease has been sold for �60 | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
million to a property company who will turn it into a hotel. It's | :21:00. | :21:09. | |
about the restoration, bring it back to life, the genius design the | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
original architect built exactly 100 years ago. The idea is to bring | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
up to life. We were given a rare access. Obviously it offers amazing | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
views, when you can see them with Buckingham Palace on one side and a | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
Trafalgar Square on the other. But inside, it's a Hamas to civil | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
service drabness. With a dash of glamour and the odd mist. Political | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
obsesses me want to think twice before they book a room here | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
because you can't stay in the flat where John Prescott used to live | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
where he used to serve shepherd's pie to Tony and Gordon to make them | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
see eye-to-eye, because that's a completely different building and a | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
corner. The sale is part of a big reorganisation of government | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
property. We are getting out of quite a lot of properties. We have | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
raised about �640 million in total so far by selling buildings, but | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
our main business is just to get out of under-used property. In | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
Bristol, for example, central government occupies one and and 15 | :22:12. | :22:21. | |
different buildings which is insane. It's expensive. -- 115. | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
aircraft carrier Ark Royal was sold for scrap for �3 million. A bid to | :22:26. | :22:33. | |
turn it into a casino was turned down. This betting organisation was | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
sold for �265 million though the Government had to share that with a | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
horse racing industry. And what about this for a big price tag? A | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
Channel Tunnel rail link was sold for more than �2 billion. But the | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
buyers of his British icon still have to get planning permission so | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
they can't give a date for when the first guests will be checking in. | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Adam Fleming reporting. Looks pretty imposing. And we've been | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
joined by the Cabinet Office Minister Chloe Smith. It says | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
welcome back to the Daily Politics. Have you been with us before? | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
recently, no. Not in the past 100 years, in other words. It's going | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
to become a hotel, right? You have sold it on a lease. We have sold | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
and 99 year lease hold for �60 million, which means it's a | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
particularly good deal for the taxpayer because not only do we get | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
that peace in the meantime, but in due course it reverts to the public. | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
This is part of a process also I'm told you want to raise �6 billion | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
doing this. What is next? The decisions are being taken across | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
the Government property portfolio, that's for sure. This is one | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
particularly good example and represents a really cracking deal | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
for the taxpayer, in fact, but we are taking those decisions across | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
property with a view to getting good value for money and a view to | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
using space sensibly. Do we know what could be the next iconic | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
building that could be on the block? I don't think there is a | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
shopping list. You have got a lot to go because the barely raised 600 | :24:10. | :24:18. | |
million so far. The 640 million saved, according to the Government. | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
10 times that to go. Will a lot to be sold? It's not only a question | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
of selling, it's important to note, there's a number of things you can | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
do with property. You can make sure space is used sensibly. This | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
building was used for office space for a short while and it's not | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
really meant for that. It has been empty recently. What do you say to | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
people who say this is an iconic building at the heart of the couple, | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
the gateway between Buckingham Palace at the end of The Mall into | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
Trafalgar Square, and there should be a national monument? A National | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
Building, a museum, an art gallery? Why wouldn't you do that? Do the | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
key point is, the public can get into it for the first time ever. | :25:09. | :25:17. | |
Think about we are going from a set of shabby office space in disrepair | :25:17. | :25:24. | |
which costs �900,000 a year running costs, while stenting, to something | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
the public can access. I think that's part of it being a good deal. | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
As long as you can afford 20 quid for a cup of tea because it will be | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
a posh hotel, won't it? There will be bars and cafes in it and | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
interestingly, it will be won a best viewpoints in London. It's a | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
great asset open to the public. What else can you see? Buckingham | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
Palace, that would get a ton of money, wouldn't it? The Queen | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
doesn't own it. I'm sure the Queen that would have something to say | :25:56. | :26:03. | |
about that. The but she doesn't own that. Lease it back to them for 99. | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
Andrew, perhaps you would like to put that forward. I just have. | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
you talk to the Queen about it? official response. You did a famous | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
interview on Newsnight with Jeremy Paxman. How do you feel about that | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
now? Well, all I can say is, Andrew, you're far more pleasant person to | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
sit opposite, and I'm sure the BBC prides itself on the quality of its | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
presenters. Do you think you've had the last laugh on Newsnight? | :26:37. | :26:45. | |
continue in my life having a good laugh,. You must have a quiet | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
chuckle at what's happened to the programme since then? It a good | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
moment for the BBC to reflect. The Jimmy Savile allegations are | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
shocking, and I don't think too many people are laughing about | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
those on the whole. Will you come back and see us? I would be | :27:01. | :27:08. | |
delighted. Perhaps we can have a cup of tea. Maybe in the new hotel? | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
Are you all right with this? Yes, I am all right with it. There are so | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
many dead buildings. Somerset House, the revenues Santon there for so | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
long. There is more access to the public. Michael Portillo said he | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
couldn't even remember he owned it when he was a minister. William | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
Morris wrote a book where he suggest the House of Commons be | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
sold off and turned into a storehouse for manure. That might | :27:32. | :27:39. | |
be the next one. No change there. Thank you for joining us. Thank | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
goodness it's Friday. Always the end of a long political week. | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
Perhaps the perfect day for a ministerial resignation. And why | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
would you want to fall on your sword at the beginning of a crisis | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
when you can stick it out to see whether your fate improves? I'm not | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
suggesting Andrew Mitchell clung on his handle bars until the bitter | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
end just a week ago. But ministers sometimes do. Indeed, as followers | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
of The Thick Of It will know, it is hard for our our top dogs to know | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
whether or not resignation is the honourable thing to do. | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
This is going to be about the inquiry. I'm thinking I should | :28:09. | :28:18. | |
resign now. No one shaves your lion's mane of. I am not a lion. A | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
man died because of a policy I signed upon. I should take the | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
dignified way out. No, you have missed the dignified exit, | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
straightaway, basically. Sometimes it's a documentary. It's | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
not comedy or fiction. And we've been joined by the Independent | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
newspaper's parliamentary sketchwriter, and former | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
Conservative MP, Michael Brown. Former. Are you so ashamed of it? | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
Welcome back. I've not seen you for ages. Two ministers resigned too | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
much or too little these days? think there's too much of it, | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
frankly. When you look back at the Thatcher resignation, I looked at a | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
list today, Lord Carrington, Michael Heseltine, Nigel Lawson, | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
Geoffrey Howe, all on matters of principle, Nicholas Ridley had to | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
resign, because of the Germans. I just read his article today. How | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
right he was. They were resignations on the real issues. He | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
was right about the Germans also I think he had to resign. Edwina | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
Currie resigned and was unfairly treated. Everything she said turned | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
out to be true. These days, we are resigning over bits of trivia. I | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
mean, David Laws, it's arguable whether he needed to resign a | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
couple of years ago. On my Twitter account, they all hate him. The in | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
the end, it doesn't come down to the issue but whether the public | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
perception, and short backbench colleagues, most of them are | :29:52. | :29:59. | |
usually driven out. I have another list here. Tim Smith. Oh no! Neil | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
Hamilton, Jonathan Aitken. didn't have much support on the | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
back bench, did they? Up exactly, what tells at the end of the day is | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
when you have support on the backbenches. I resigned as a | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
government whip over a sex scandal in 1994. But the thing is, they you | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
are, most of them are easily forgettable. Ian Gow resigned as a | :30:22. | :30:29. | |
minister. Keith Speed? I don't even know who he is? Secretary of State | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
for Scotland? How dare you! He was the parliamentary private secretary | :30:33. | :30:43. | |
:30:43. | :30:47. | ||
to Margaret Thatcher who was $:/STARTFEED. Andrew Mitchell's | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
resignation has already been forgotten. Ary Nieve was the other | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
Conservative close to Mrs Thatcher who was also assassinated. Just | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
after the election, I remember that one. Two terrible days. Do you have | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
a list of those who should have resigned and didn't? Right at the | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
top of my list is Jeremy Hunt. I think Jeremy Hunt should have | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
resigned a few weeks ago. It is arguable whether Grant Shapps | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
should really be in post. Really? After what the Guardian has | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
suggested. You can't pretend to be somebody else all the time. That | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
wouldn't be like being a politician at all! I would say immediately | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
there are far more questions about those two staying. But they are so | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
close to the Prime Minister that there resignation affects him. | :31:39. | :31:47. | |
we too keen on the media to form a lynch mob? Are you going to resign, | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
minister? When are you going to resign? A notice that this week, | :31:52. | :32:00. | |
the BBC reporter was chasing after the Eid Director General of the BBC. | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
Some day it must happen, a victim must be found. We go down the list | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
as soon as somebody gets into trouble. I do think we should | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
sometimes stand back. You have to allow operators is to find out -- | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
play out. You rarely find out what was going on. Liam Fox was a | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
classic, embarrassment about his relationship with his aide and it | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
got out of the way. I would rather find out what happened and come to | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
review. We don't have any criteria for resignation. Key if you look at | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
the textbooks, there are long disquisitions about the principles | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
for resignation and they have gone. The lynch mob howls and howls and | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
keeps on howling until you get to the point where the backbenchers | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
say we have lost confidence in you. That becomes the pretext for the | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
resignation. We've forgotten what the pretext was. We have data from | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
the LSE that shows that of the 12 resignations that have taken place | :33:01. | :33:09. | |
as a result of sex scandals from 1906-2006, 11 were Conservatives. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
Any theory of that? It always used to be said that if it was money, it | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
was Labour MPs, if it was sex, it was Tory MPs. Cut it is the thing | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
they can't get otherwise. It's Cecil Parkinson came back from a | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
sex scandal. Tim Yeo came back from a sex scandal. A long list, thank | :33:28. | :33:38. | |
you. Earlier we set the guests a little quiz. What language did Nick | :33:38. | :33:45. | |
Clegg and Herman Van Rompuy his speech yesterday when they met? | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
What is the correct answer? Dutch. German. The correct answer is Dutch. | :33:53. | :34:02. | |
A huge glass of champagne waiting? He speaks about five languages. | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
It's just gone 12.30, and it's time to say goodbye to my two guests of | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
the day, Phil Collins and Anne McElvoy. And don't forget, if you | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
can't survive the weekend without your regular politics hit, do join | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
me for the Sunday Politics on BBC One at noon, when I'll be | :34:15. | :34:22. | |
interviewing the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander. -- | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
it's at 11 o'clock! You get an extra hour's sleep before you have | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
to watch us! This week, Members of the European | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
Parliament have been meeting in Strasbourg for their regular | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
plenary session. So what have they been getting up to? Here's Susana | :34:38. | :34:47. | |
:34:48. | :34:49. | ||
with our guide to latest from The scene is set for a showdown | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
after MEPs rejected a position of all 27 National MEPs voted for a | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
rise of 6.8%, the governments want to limit any increase to 2.8%, but | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
the commissioner for budgets said they were ignoring reality. | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
can't endorse the councillors decision to cut by more than 5 | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
billion our proposal. Her three appointments have a Luxembourg | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
central banker to the all-male board has angered those who want to | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
see more female candidates for the job. Ever struggled to get | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
compensation for a delayed flight or lost luggage? MEPs agree with | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
you and they have adopted a resolution, calling a passenger | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
rights to be endorsed across the UK. The BC has backed a commission on | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
the Robin Hood tax. The you couldn't get all 27 members to | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
agree, but the 10, including France and Germany, want to carry on | :35:46. | :35:55. | |
And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined by Fiona Hall MEP. | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
She's the Lib Dem leader in the European Parliament. And Paul | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
Nuttal MEP - he's the deputy leader of UKIP. Let's take a look at one | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
of those stories in more detail. The European Parliament vote | :36:05. | :36:14. | |
against the appointment of a man to the ECB executive board. This is a | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
complaint which Europe has been talking a lot about, there are so | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
few women on top boards. Where do you stand on this? I think we did | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
the right thing on the vote on the ECB. It has been established that | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
companies are much better, that they perform much better, if they | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
don't just have men on the board. Duvet? What is the evidence? There | :36:39. | :36:46. | |
was a survey done recently. In the UK, over the last year we have | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
voluntary measures on getting women on to boards since the Davies | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
report and there's been spectacular progress. The ECB is overwhelmingly | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
male. It is largely made up of the existing central bankers and they | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
are probably all male. Is there a female central banker in the | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
eurozone? Originally there was one and she left. Germany is on record | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
as saying it was always understood that they should be won. But our | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
objection in Parliament was not that the new appointee Wasserman, | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
but simply that there wasn't even a woman on the shortlist. We thought | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
that was taking it too far. We are you on this? I believe in a | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
meritocracy. If you are good enough, it doesn't matter if you are a man | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
or woman. What is interesting is that Angela Merkel has swung behind | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
this man to get a job. The last time I looked, she was a woman. | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
Sarkozy didn't always think that. If you are saying it is a | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
meritocracy, it therefore follows, given that the boards on the ECB | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
are dominated by men, it follows from your argument, logically, in a | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
meritocracy, that it is all men because the women are too thick. I | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
don't think many people would accept that. Is that right? Across | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
the world, women are in leading positions. The head of the IMF is a | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
woman. The Chancellor of Germany is a woman, Hillary Clinton, Margaret | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
Thatcher. Why no woman in the seedy? The women were not as | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
qualified as the men. It shouldn't matter what sex you are, at the | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
best person should get the job. clearly does matter because they | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
are all men. Half the population is women, there are more women | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
graduates than men and there's something that is a barrier at the | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
moment. The ECB takes decisions that have effects on household | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
budgets and living conditions which often women bear the brunt of. | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
Exactly. You can get a very narrow view of the world. That is why | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
there take women on board find that they prosper more, they share price | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
goes up, they perform better. Surely it is demeaning to women. | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
You wouldn't want to be the token woman on the board thinking you | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
were only there because you are a placement. UKIP is the party that | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
believes women should be cleaning... Nonsense. They may have moved out. | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
-- moved on. So the stage is set for more | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
fireworks over the EU's budget and there's lots at stake. First - this | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
week, the EU Commission asked member states to stump up another | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
�6 billion to help fill a �9 billion gap in the EU's finances up | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
billion gap in the EU's finances up to the end of the year. Next, the | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
European Parliament voted for a 6.8% increase in the budget for | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
2013, rejecting a lower budget increase put forward by member | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
states. MEPs and the Council of Ministers now have three weeks to | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
try to reach a compromise. And finally, there's the arguments over | :39:47. | :39:57. | |
:39:57. | :40:05. | ||
the total budget for 2014-2020, the so-called "multi-annual framework". | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
It is how much they will spend between now and 2020. MEPs and the | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
European Commission are gunning for a big budget increase to the MFF, | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
which would mean total spending up to 2020 would add up to over 1,000 | :40:16. | :40:24. | |
billion euros. But member states have a veto over this, and David | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
Cameron has said he will use his to block any real-terms rise in the | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
overall budget. European leaders are due to meet in late November to | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
agree a plan, but the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, has said | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
the summit should be scrapped if Mr Cameron doesn't withdraw this | :40:39. | :40:48. | |
Let's talk now to the Spanish MEP Salvador Garriga Polledo, who sits | :40:48. | :40:56. | |
on the European Parliament budgets committee. | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
It looks like you have a lot to resolve for this year, next year | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
and the next six years. Will you get a settlement on all of this, do | :41:06. | :41:15. | |
you think? It is going to be difficult. We started today with 20 | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
12th's remaining budget and we have two weeks to come to an agreement | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
on 2013. At the same time, we are still awaiting developments for the | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
coming negotiations. It is going to be a very busy three months. | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
think a lot of people watching will wonder why the European Union | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
should be getting any increase when their governments are they live | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
under are having to slash their spending like mad. It is happening | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
in Britain, it has happened in France, even with President | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
Hollande and his austere budget, it is happening in your own country. | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
National governments are having to cut so why should the European | :42:01. | :42:09. | |
government, if I can call it that, get an increase? It depends on the | :42:09. | :42:19. | |
:42:19. | :42:22. | ||
idea about Europe, that different politicians have. The idea that | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
even though they are slashing budgets, we concede that the | :42:25. | :42:35. | |
European budget should incorporate the European added value. Money is | :42:35. | :42:44. | |
spent in 27 member-states. think the money spent more | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
effectively at a European level than a national level? The EU's | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
accounts have not been approved for about 13 years now. How can it be | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
more effective in spending than the Madrid, Paris or London | :42:57. | :43:07. | |
governments? We truly believe that, and expenditure will be more | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
effective, especially because we are dealing with coalition policy, | :43:14. | :43:24. | |
:43:24. | :43:26. | ||
innovation, development, European Social Fund. Many things are spread | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
between 27 member states. It will produce a better effect. I'm asked | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
say that the European budget is neutral. -- I must say. We don't | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
want the member states to spend more money. We want to transfer | :43:42. | :43:52. | |
:43:52. | :43:53. | ||
some kind of spending to the European budget. Thank you. What | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
should the British Government's strategy... What should they be in | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
this European budget formation? think it is a mistake to say at the | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
beginning that we might walk out. There are a lot of negotiations | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
ahead and that is not the way you normally go into negotiations. I | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
agree that in this time of austerity, we shouldn't be looking | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
at a budget rise. But we also need to be looking at other aspects of | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
the Budget. We need to make sure there's a review, because we know | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
we are beginning to come out of recession and in a couple of years, | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
that will be the moment to invest. We also have to make sure that the | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
money we've got is spent more efficiently. At the moment you are | :44:41. | :44:49. | |
not allowed to swap money between different... That is stupid. | :44:49. | :44:56. | |
agree that the Budget should be frozen in real terms, if not for | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
all of the 2014-2020 period, or maybe for 14, 15 and all 16? | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
part of a package where we look at these other aspects and make sure | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
we get a proper efficient use art of the money we have. If I could | :45:12. | :45:19. | |
just say... Briefly. The accounts being signed off. The countries of | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
Europe, countries like the UK who are responsible for that, it is the | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
Department of Work and Pensions who have never had their accounts | :45:26. | :45:36. | |
:45:36. | :45:39. | ||
People do have doubts that money is being spent wisely at European | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
level, let alone British level. This is completely indefensible | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
when we have cuts in our own country and are living in times of | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
austerity. The European Parliament has voted to increase our | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
contributions by �2 billion a year, something we can't afford, and | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
something the people of this country would not like. What should | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
they do? Rejected completely. I would like to see the Budget | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
reduced significantly. I think Cameron will go into negotiations. | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
He got on the train a few years ago at St Pancras and said, "I'm going | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
to Brussels and I will be the hard man." By the time he got there, he | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
would he accept the 2.5%. If there is no deal because they want to | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
avoid a British veto, as Angela Merkel is suggesting, this year's | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
budget is automatically rolled over with a 2% increase, is an there is | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
no veto on that. Would that be a sensible strategy? Cameron has got | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
to play hardball, and if he has to walk out, I believe he should. The | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
budget will go forward anyway. At the European Parliament wanted to | :46:51. | :46:57. | |
be 6.8% increase which would take a contributions to over 16 billion. | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
didn't get an answer. You have got to play hardball otherwise it won't | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
play in this country at all, but if you play to add, you get rises you | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
didn't want in the first place. are hugely benefiting from this | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
particularly when you look at research programmes. Newcastle | :47:15. | :47:23. | |
University has got 116 at research programmes at the moment. We are | :47:23. | :47:31. | |
net contributors. No, we are not, on research. I understand point. I | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
don't quite understand the point of the argument because, if we didn't | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
make a contribution at all, and decided as a democracy not to, we | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
could give that money to Newcastle University anyway. We wouldn't be | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
in the single market if we did that. The average tax payer pays 8p a day. | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
Poor Norwegian tax payer, he pays almost as much for the privilege. | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
In the end, although it sounds like big money, when you driller down, | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
per capita, it's peanuts. Actually, the contribution is quite | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
significant but, beyond that, the money it takes to comply with EU | :48:14. | :48:22. | |
directives. We give �16.3 billion a year to the European Union and get | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
under half of Babak and then they will tell us how to spend our own | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
money and that is not acceptable and it is wrong. A we have to move | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
on. Plenty of time between now and Christmas to discuss it. Endless | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
summer it's coming up now. David Cameron's air miles will be quite | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
amazing if he carries on like this. Now, how many homes do you think | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
the European Parliament has? I'm sure you know. Well, you might be | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
surprised to find out that it actually has two. One in Brussels | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
and another in Strasbourg. The moving between the two has been | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
dubbed the travelling circus. And in these austere times, many are | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
questioning if it's sensible or affordable? Jo Coburn packed her | :48:58. | :49:07. | |
bag and set off to investigate. Brussels may be more famous for its | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
chocolate and a beer, but it's also home to the European Parliament. | :49:10. | :49:19. | |
Most of the time, anyway. Once a month, 754 MEPs and 3,000 staff | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
trek to London 20 miles to their other home in Strasbourg. The | :49:23. | :49:30. | |
official seat of the European Parliament. This tale of two cities | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
is often referred to as the gravy train, and it could be about to hit | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
the buffers. At the time of crisis, the campaign for a single seed for | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
the European Parliament has been gathering speed. Its supporters | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
claim the monthly shuttle costs 180 million euros a year. A round trip | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
by car and train can take up to eight hours, and it produces 19,000 | :49:53. | :50:01. | |
tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions each year. The public see this | :50:01. | :50:08. | |
travelling circus as an example of the EU waste and incompetence. The | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
members themselves want change. We recognise what the public feel. We | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
are responding to that by saying, come on, governments, stop forcing | :50:17. | :50:24. | |
us to meet in Strasbourg. He British MEP Edward McMillan-Scott | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
is leading the fight for a single seed based in Russells and support | :50:28. | :50:38. | |
:50:38. | :50:38. | ||
is growing. 74% of MEPs backed the call for change it -- Brussels. But | :50:38. | :50:45. | |
the decision as a huge historical significance. The city is on the | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
border with Germany. And, for many, it represents the close links | :50:48. | :50:57. | |
between the two countries after two world wars. For us, Strasbourg is a | :50:57. | :51:05. | |
symbol of peace and reconciliation with Germany and France, so it's | :51:05. | :51:15. | |
:51:15. | :51:15. | ||
very strong for us and for Germany or so. -- also. The view of the | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
French is backed up by European law, which states that the parliament | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
meets in Strasbourg 12 times a year. Changing where European | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
institutions are based requires treaty change, agreed by all 27 | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
member states. History has proved how difficult that can be to | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
achieve. Then the question is, how do you deal with, as it were, | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
buying off the French? You have to give them something to compensate. | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
You have to work out ways of using the historic value of Strasbourg in | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
different ways. Making Brussels the only destination for Europe's MPs | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
could be many years away. For now, I'd better book my ticket to come | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
back to Strasbourg next month. Jo Coburn reporting. She actually | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
got the train to the south of France! Are you against the | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
situation? It indeed. It's crazy. It's the thing most people regard | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
as the example of what is not efficient. We need to change it. It | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
doesn't make sense from a money point of view. Your carbon | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
footprint is enormous. Terrible. It made sense after the Second World | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
War. This is the 21st century and we have got to make the EU work for | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
the 21st century. Even if the whole parliament was United 100%, putting | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
aside the Strasbourg MEP, who wouldn't be, it won't happen. | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
quite simply, it shows you how powerless MPs are in this issue | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
because we will basically be told it is written into the treaties and | :52:52. | :52:58. | |
can't happen. There is a parliament was mothballed in Luxembourg which | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
has two debating chambers which have never been used and the | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
offices were done up at �800 million and there are 300 staff | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
there. I was interested to learn of the French don't have another | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
major... On French soil, they don't have another major European | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
institution. If it was to stay in Brussels, wardens of Brussels have | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
to sense something big down to Strasbourg to fill the gap? They | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
had been at many good ideas which it used to be put to a building, a | :53:32. | :53:42. | |
technology institute. A hotel like a naughty arch? Even though its | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
right that MEPs can't do anything about it, it's in the coalition | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
agreement with the support of both government parties. -- Admiralty | :53:50. | :53:58. | |
We need to put it on a table. both have been in favour of | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
reforming the Common Agricultural Policy together, too. Watch this | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
space. I will, but I won't hold my breath! Now it might look like | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
David Cameron and his ministers are endlessly shuttling between London | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
and Brussels for make-or-break meetings with their EU counterparts. | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
I know it certainly does to them! It's tough for us just to watch it | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
and cover. But lots of the groundwork is done in advance by | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
civil servants who are based in what's effectively Britain's | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
embassy to the EU. Adam's been to see them in action for the latest | :54:31. | :54:41. | |
:54:41. | :54:49. | ||
in our series, the A-Z of Europe. In amongst the grandeur of the | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
capital of Europe, where can you find our man in Brussels? Well, | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
here in between a bar and a pharmacy. This is home up to the UK | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
Permanent representation to the EU, known as UKREP. And the man in the | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
middle with the blue folder full of secrets is power UKREP, our | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
ambassador to the EU, John Cunliffe, the 10th person to have the job. We | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
caught up with him prowling the corridors and lifts of power with | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
his French opposite number. He grunted as a rare interview. We are | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
responsible for all that associations which take place | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
within the EU. When you think of it, we deal with a whole range of | :55:32. | :55:39. | |
issues. I start the morning meeting the French ambassador and we | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
discuss the agenda, where we are on particular positions, and then I | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
think I'm meeting another couple of ambassadors this evening. My job is | :55:47. | :55:53. | |
to make sure the UK's voice is heard and interests are promoted | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
and are protected. And then he was off to the meeting of ambassadors | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
from the other 26 member states. Here they do much of the EU's day- | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
to-day work. On the agenda, next year's budget, Syria, Iran and | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
immigration. UKREP is a team of people, 150 civil servants from | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
across Whitehall, who spend between two and four years here at the time | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
and do the really did tell me decisions. They also help out | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
British guests when they pop over to Brussels. Here, guiding the | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
minister through the complex world of the European Parliament. Critics | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
of this place say it is full bureaucrats who are enthralled to | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
Brussels. The kind of people who will do any deal rather than the | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
real deal Number Ten would like to see. While they say they simply | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
negotiate within limits, set by London. And there is some glamour | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
to UKREP after all. It turns out our man in Basil gets a residence | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
here on ambassador's role. I suppose he needs somewhere grand | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
for his dinner parties. How does he know that? Adam Fleming | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
reporting. Fiona Hall and Paul Nuttall are still with me. Does | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
UKREP to a good job representing Britain in Brussels? I don't agree | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
with what they do. Britain represents 12% of the population of | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
the EU but only 4% of the staff within the EU are British. They are | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
meant to go sit on our behalf. I'm not going to criticise the civil | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
servants but they are taking their lead from the Foreign Office and | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
quite frankly the Foreign Office has sold us down the river over the | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
year. They report to the foreign office. What is the important thing | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
they do for the UK? They don't just report to the Foreign Office but | :57:47. | :57:54. | |
across the board to departments. Detailed piece of legislation. I | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
think they do a good job and I work closely with them. High quality | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
people? Yes, we had a gap when we stopped fast-tracking people but we | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
are doing so again and that's very important. Are they work on the | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
detail and have their hands tied behind their back because they | :58:10. | :58:17. | |
don't get the full support of UK MEPs because some of them pocket | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
their salary and don't actually do their detailed work. Names? Paul | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
Nuttall has only once been in the environment committee in the last | :58:26. | :58:34. | |
two years. I don't want to go down that road. We, even if you got your | :58:34. | :58:41. | |
way, we still need a UKREP for the EU? If it still existed after we | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
left, of course. I just up answer this question by not turning up. I | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
would rather have a MEP like myself who votes in favour of Britain and | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
against any sort of legislation but transfers power from the UK to | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
Brussels. That's what I do and why I am good value for money. You have | :58:59. | :59:02. |