Browse content similar to 12/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Auntie's angst | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
continues as more heads not exactly roar but step aside. It was the | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
turn of the head of news and her deputy this morning. And on the | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
principle that it never rains but it pours for the BBC these days, a | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
row has broken out over the pay-off to the new -- to the now former | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Director-General George Entwistle. The Prime Minister and a raft of | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
other politicians this morning said it was hard to justify his golden | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
goodbye of �450,000. More political shenanigans in the | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Commons, this time over the price of petrol. Rebel Tory MPs could | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
side with Labour again and forced another government defeat. | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
Is it all really doom and gloom Armagh High Street are we | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
witnessing a retail version of Darwin's natural selection? | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
And it really is tough in the jungle. It is possibly one of the | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
worst nights of my life and I don't think I want to go through it again. | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
Who was that?! Have you not seen her before?! | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
With us is the chief executive of isn't -- Vision Express, Jonathan | :01:57. | :02:05. | |
Lawson. You are not spec Savers? Absolutely not, Vision Express. | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
Let's talk about tax avoidance. You couldn't resist! Executives | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
from Google, Starbucks and Amazon will be questioned later today by | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
MPs on the Public Accounts Committee as part of an inquiry | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
into tax-avoidance. All three companies have been accused of | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
paying little or no tax on UK earnings. They say they meet all | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
their legal obligations. Is Starbucks paying its fair share of | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
Corporation Tax? That is for other people to understand whether they | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
are adhering correctly. What do you think as an observer and also | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
running a business? Are they paying what they should? In our | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
circumstance, and I would suspect the vast majority of businesses | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
that are like us, registered in the UK and domiciled in the UK, we pay | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
a substantial amount of corporation tax. A few added to that the amount | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
of VAT and National Insurance... You don't pay that, you collected | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
from the customers and give it to the Government. We still incur the | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
charge before we pay... You don't pay, we pay VAT, businesses do not. | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
If I can finish the point, the vast majority of organisations like us, | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
the level of tax we pay is greater than the total level of profit made | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
in a financial year. Other companies are finding ways of | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
avoiding that. If that is within the rules than the answers are for | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
those who make the rules, not necessarily the individuals. | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
should they change? You must get annoyed if you are paying that | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
level of tax, and VAT, you must get very cross with companies who avoid | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
it? I focus on getting cross with things like an influence like how | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
we run our own business. I would prefer to see rather than a | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
discussion about changing the rules, enforcing and implementing the | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
rules. Suggestions of a further potential sales tax... That is what | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
was suggested by the former City Minister. Starbucks said they do | :04:07. | :04:15. | |
not have profits here, he says they should pay tax on their fails. -- | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
are now sales. That would be the last thing we would need at the | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
moment. I would come back to my point, enforce the rules fairly to | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
begin with rather than coming up with yet another level of | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
bureaucracy. Is there anything wrong with companies basing their | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
European operations in countries with lower corporation tax rates, | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
like Ireland and Luxembourg? think the point you are making is | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
this is quite complex. If we were to make further changes we would | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
need to do it with the support of other countries. Some of the things | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
we are seeing in terms of Starbucks, Vision Express has other operators | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
in other parts of Europe operating under our licence. We pay tax in | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
the UK on that revenue. Thank you. Or be it is time for our daily quiz. | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
MP Nadine Dorries, if you did not recognise her in the opening, has | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
be appearing on the reality show I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here. | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
Last night the public decided she would be one of the first to | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
undergo something called a bush tucker trial. What will it be? | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Being buried alive with insects, being buried alive with angry | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
constituents from Mid Bedfordshire, sounds uncomfortable, a 40 minute | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
interview with John Humphrys or obtaining a cobra? We will give you | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
the correct answer at the end of the show. | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
We are getting reports that Abu Qatada, who the British government | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
has been trying to deport to Jordan on various terrorist charges, has | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
won an appeal in front of I think it was an immigration... A special | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
immigration tribunal. It has been a long, drawn-out process but he has | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
won, a major setback for the Government and the Home Office. The | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
moment we get more details we will bring them. | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
You may have noticed, or you may have other things to do, that it | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
has been a tumultuous time at the BBC. Another senior manager or two | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
have stepped aside. It has been another busy morning, but Jo will | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
bring us up to speed. The BBC crisis following the | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
revelations about Jimmy Savile and the report on Newsnight which led | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
to false suggestions about the involvement of Lord McAlpine in | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
child abuse has continued to grow. On Saturday night the Director- | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
General, George Entwistle, stepped down after only 54 days in the job. | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
That has led to a row about a decision to award him a pay-off of | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
�450,000, his annual salary. Some MPs have suggested Chris Patten's | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
position as chairman of the BBC Trust is untenable. Two more senior | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
managers, Helen Boaden and Steve Mitchell, the director and deputy | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
directors of news, have stepped aside. A new acting editor, Karen | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
O'Connor, has been appointed to lead Newsnight. The BBC says it | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
wants to establish a single management to allow clarity around | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
the editorial chain of command. The BBC's deputy political editor James | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
Landale joins me. What is the feeling in political circles and | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
the anger and the fall-out? At the moment, the political pressure is | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
overt George Entwistle's pay-off. The Prime Minister's official | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
spokesman says it is hard to justify, as does Culture Secretary | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Maria Miller. A Downing Street source said that Mr Entwistle | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
should search his conscience, MPs are saying it is unacceptable. | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
Grant Shapps, the chairman of the Conservatives, says it is correct | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
to say that this pay-off will hurt the BBC almost most out of the | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
current crisis dogging it. Where the pressure is there but not as | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
acute is over the role of Chris Patten. Some Conservative MPs say | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
his position is untenable and he should stand down, but Downing | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
Street was asked explicitly this morning if the Prime Minister had | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
confidence in all pattern and we were told that it did. At the | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
moment Downing Street has tried to keep a certain amount of distance, | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
but Downing Street has commented on the pay-off. Is Chris Patten in | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
trouble? At the moment Khaled Downing Street will wait until all | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
of these areas inquiry's report, get a sense of the layer of the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
land. I don't think they want to be in a position where they are | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
accused of leaving the BBC rudderless. I think they want Chris | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
Patten and plays so new changes can be put there, but at the moment | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
they suggest that Chris Patten has the confidence of the Prime | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
Minister and they give no evidence that will change in the short term. | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
The BBC is taking steps to try to get a grip of the situation. At the | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
moment it does not seem to have worked? What many MPs feel is a | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
sense of frustration and anger. Many of them recognise in their | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
view the importance of the BBC as an institution and its role in | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
British society, but they express anger and frustration that some | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
decisions made. I think they are hoping that better decisions will | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
be made in the future, certainly the anger at the moment is focused | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
on the pay-off rather than the structural changes that might have | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
to be made. Thank you. Just to confirm that breaking news that | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
Millbank, terror suspect Abu Qatada has won his appeal against | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
deportation to Jordan, he has won his appeal, we will see what the | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
fall-out is. No doubt the Home Secretary will make a statement | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
shortly. Back to the BBC. With us the former | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
Culture Secretary for the Labour government, Tessa Jowell, and, | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
Burns, a Conservative MP serving on the Culture, Media and Sport Select | :09:57. | :10:04. | |
Committee. We asked for anybody from the BBC to come on. They | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
declined. We were very polite in our invitation, we even said please. | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
We are told that the new acting Director-General of the BBC is | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
giving an interview to the News Channel in the next hour or so, | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
that is the BBC News Channel, but not to the BBC Daily Politics. | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
There is a Marshall McLuhan moment going on, the BBC News Channel is | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
anchoring its programme from outside the BBC headquarters where | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
their studios are. We have not seen that before! We also asked for the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Government to come on but they refused, we are not hurt because we | :10:43. | :10:50. | |
have these two guests. How is the BBC handling the crisis so far? | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
Appallingly. What we are now seeing is the decisive action we hope to | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
see a few weeks ago, -- a few days ago, if it had been taken and Mr | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
Entwistle might be still in his job. It is getting a grip in a delayed | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
fashion. I agreed. If you look back over the history of BBC crisis, | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
there is a pattern. They are not good at handling crises. I think | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
part of this is the BBC's culture all, at management level, and | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
reactivity to the world outside. To whom they are accountable through | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
the public money they spend from the licence-fee payer. Eight is it | :11:33. | :11:41. | |
getting a grip this morning? -- is it getting a grip? Slowly, we are | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
seeing people stepping aside and action against those involved in | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
the most appalling behaviour. They fail to broadcast allocations they | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
could stand up and broadcast it once they could not. After the | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
Jimmy Savile thing, for them not to have been any edicts for anything | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
to do with Newsnight and child abuse to end up on the Director- | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
General's desk was terrible. has Chris Patten performed as | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
chairman? I think Chris Patten has probably done the best job that he | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
can, what I think he is critical for Chris Patten is what happens | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
over the next six months. I hope we can see a new emerging assertive | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
BBC Trust really standing up for the BBC licence fee payer, | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
reminding everybody in the senior management at the BBC that the | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
public pay their money. What is the role of the BBC Trust? Is it to | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
stand up for the licence-fee payer or regulate the BBC? It is, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
constitutionally, to represent the interests of the licence fee payer, | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
value-for-money, quality of programming collapse and oversee | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
the executive decisions of the executive board of the BBC. It is a | :13:00. | :13:08. | |
broken model? No. Is it a mess? It is not a broken model, it is a | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
model which needs to be delivered with an awful lot more conviction | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
than it has, but it very much reflects where public opinion is. | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
The public, the pay the licence fee, wants to feel it is their BBC and | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
they have some control. Are you telling me you think the British | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
public have trust in the BBC Trust? I think the public definitely have | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
trust and confidence, very resilient levels of confidence, in | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
the BBC. I said in the BBC Trust. very much doubt that the average | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
person watching at home tonight draws a distinction. It is meant to | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
be regulating or representing them. People don't know that distinction. | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
Is the model Brogan? I don't think so, I think it is up to Chris | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
Patten to decide what he wants to do. I think he should see what the | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
role of the next Director-General is. I wonder if there is an | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
argument for splitting the role, having an editor in chief and a | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
Director-General who runs the bureaucracy. Chris Patten needs to | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
focus on the future of the BBC. The brand is globally recognised. Many | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
of us, even Tories, are great fans of the BBC and we wanted the Trust | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
restored. Great fans? I have always been. Any colleagues? I could name | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
and number, but that would be unfair on them. You are not sure | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
who they are? I am not sure they wish to be outed! Is it that | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
embarrassing? Is Mr Entwistle's �450,000 pay-off justified? I don't | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
know the contractual settlement. was six months. That is a year. | :14:57. | :15:03. | |
What are these are the functions that he has been asked to assist | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
with? We are all asked to assist with things... It is a simple | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
answer, is it justified? Part of the problem with the BBC, I am no | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
longer in government, his government trying to micromanage | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
and intervene in the BBC when things go wrong. That should stop. | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
I am asking for your view as a member of parliament and a | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
representative of your constituents. It is our money, the licence payers | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
money, is it justified? I think it sounds like a lot. You know that, | :15:33. | :15:40. | |
it is. If he is going to persuade... It is not justified at all, but we | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
must not get upset about this. -- we must not obsess about this. In | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
the scale of the challenge... me ask you, not as a businessman | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
but as a licence payer in this country, first of all, do you think | :15:57. | :16:07. | |
:16:07. | :16:09. | ||
the BBC Trust is doing its job Jay's senior appointment as | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
Entwhistle to be vindicated after 55 days, for me that poses a bigger | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
question about the decision-making had a very senior level about that | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
decision in the first place. decision taken by Lord Patten. | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
think that answers your first question. I don't answer my | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
questions, you have to! Then I would say, to take the points that | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
were made earlier, to be normal, average person such as myself | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
watching television, the face of the BBC in which I am placing trust | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
is based upon what I am watching. However, having read everything | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
that has gone on recently, my biggest concern would be with the | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
senior management at the BBC, and if that is the trust, that would be | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
the trust. Do you believe Mr Entwistle should have had a | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
�450,000 pay-off? I believe he should have had what he was | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
entitled to within the terms of his contrasts -- contract. It is | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
greater than that, there is a judgment? Over that. It is greater | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
than that and there is no explanation, well, let's for him to | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
go quickly... It is the chairman of the trust's job to say, this is why | :17:18. | :17:28. | |
:17:28. | :17:49. | ||
we consider that this was justified. There was great resentment amongst | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
a number of colleagues that certain presenters spat out the word, a | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
senior figure from the Thatcher era. There was a sense that Newsnight | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
wanted to seek to smear a senior Tory politician associated with | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
Margaret Thatcher. You think it was politically motivated? Yes, and the | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
way the phrase was spat out, a senior political figure from the | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
Thatcher era, and that upset a number of us, we were very angry | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
about that. The standards of journalism on that particular | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
broadcast episodes were appalling. Were you angry enough to want to | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
seek revenge? I hope Lord McAlpine will take legal action, and I think | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
he will be successful. I don't think there is any doubt about | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
that! I hope our committee will look at how on earth we regular | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
Twitter, the internet, these appalling things that are said | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
about people that you would never have got away with in the Sunday | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
Times in your days. Where does this leave the child abuse story now? We | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
have got two new inquiry set up in North Wales, including an inquiry | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
into an inquiry. We have got the BBC's Savile inquiry, I think there | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
is another one. To be honest, I have lost count! There are about | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
six. What seems to be the case is that the number of people who have | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
been accused because they are involved in one or another is | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
destabilising the management at an absolutely critical time. -- Ricky | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
used. I think those inquiries have got to continue to their | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
conclusions, so that if they are people who did bad, evil, criminal | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
things and they are still alive, that they are brought to book. But | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
then there are also very important process points that the BBC has got | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
to learn from. I was not just thinking of the BBC has tended to | :19:43. | :19:51. | |
be lost in the media maelstrom. There are damaged adults who | :19:51. | :20:01. | |
survived this who deserve retribution than and for those who | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
assault them to be brought to account. There should be no | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
deflection from that. Do you believe that there is a paedophile | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
ring operating in Whitehall and Westminster? I do not believe that. | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
At the very core of the whole child-abuse thing, if we look at | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
the Savile thing, is that we have an evil man who is dead. There is | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
no way of bringing him to justice, and that is at the core of the | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
problem. We are setting up all sorts of inquiries... We may be | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
able to bring to justice those who colluded. But we may never get to | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
the portrait on all of these things because of time, because of death. | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
Do believe there is a paedophile ring operating in the Westminster- | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
Whitehall region? You are expressing that in the current | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
tense, Andrew. I think if there is any suggestion of that, then such | :20:49. | :20:56. | |
allegations... Well, has operated? I am not aware of that ever taking | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
place. If there is any evidence, it should be passed to the police to | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
be properly investigated. We could hardly do otherwise on something | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
like that. Thank you both for joining us. | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
Now, it is what is known in the business as a no-brainer, an | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
economic downturn spells doom for high-street retailers, but while | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
many small stores and big grants have gone to the wall in recent | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
years, is it all doom and gloom? -- big brands. | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
Take a high street, add the next five years, growing online retail, | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
reduced budgets, a global economic downturn, a loss of spending money | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
and a loss of faith in big-name brands, and you get a shopping | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
experience that looks like this, pretty gloomy. But it is not | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
necessarily terminal. There is no doubt a consumer revolution has | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
taken place and it has hurt the high street, but many retail | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
experts say from revolution comes evolution. If our high streets are | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
going to be revived, they will not look like they used to, and that is | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
because the ones that survive at the moment are the ones that we as | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
human beings need to physically being, otherwise increasingly we | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
shop with the click of a mouse. Nail bars were reported to double | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
the numbers in the last two years, because you cannot get your nails | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
done online. You may laugh, but it is true, you cannot meet your | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
friends socially for a drink online. You might be able to Facebook each | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
other, but you are in your own homes. The things that provide us | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
with the connected environment that brings people together are the | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
things that are still in existence, and what I think struggling | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
retailers need to do is either recognise it is out of town and | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
online and that is the only way to trade, all they need to bring the | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
experience back to life and make its social, make it enjoyable, but | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
that usually comes as a price. government has provided some money | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
as part of the Mary Portas review, and a number of areas have one | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
access to 100,000 all -- �100,000 or �10,000, but it is not enough to | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
spruce up areas that need more than a makeover, and plenty of places | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
got nothing. Mary Portas also hit on something else. The biggest | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
recommendation of was that the government needs to re-evaluate | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
rates, and that is massive. We are going to see more businesses | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
struggling to pay, and in Baghdad the statistics that a 16% of | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
independent retailers do not expect to make it through next year | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
because they cannot pay their business rates. Before we give up | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
our high street and retreat to a computer or a mega shopping centre, | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
think honest. Whilst many shops have gone out of business, | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
vacancies have been static, which means others are replacing them, | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
and if entrepreneurs can bring the social experience to what they are | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
offering, maybe we will return. Jonathan Lawson, the chief | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
executive of Vision Express, is still with us, and we are joined by | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
the Conservative MP and member of the Business Select Committee | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
Nadhim Zahawi. Welcome to the programme, Jonathan Lawson, we keep | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
hearing that the British high street is dying, your business is | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
doing OK, is that because it is a vital service? Is that why it is | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
surviving better? I hope it is also an part because we are doing a good | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
job for our customers in terms of providing the right levels of value, | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
service and quality, but there's no question that the high street is a | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
tough place to operate on at the moment. Would you go into a high | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
street like that and open a shop? We open in high streets and in | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
shopping centres. One like that, though? I have got a number of | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
stores operating in high street as tough as that, and in fairness to | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
the team's there, they are managing to do OK. One of the key points | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
that will programme raised is the issue of business rates, because | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
that is a genuine and significant rate to our business, and it is | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
going up higher than the growth in sales. Are you angry that the | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
government has delayed plans to revalue business rates? I am more | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
bemused, if I'm honest, because if you look at last year, where rates | :24:58. | :25:06. | |
went up by 5.6%, this year 4.6%, and then a further �175 million of | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
costs going into next year at a time when the government says they | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
are listening to the needs of business, retail businesses are | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
screaming that this is the wrong decision to have taken. Nadhim | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
Zahawi, your government is supposed to be on the side of small | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
businesses and retailers. Why are you shooting ourselves in the foot? | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
The revaluation was done in 2008, at the height of the property | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
bubble. That is damaging, and I think Jonathan is referring to that. | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
The office that look that is, the agency said that if we re-evaluate | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
in 2015, 800,000 more businesses will be paying more, 300,000 will | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
be paying less, businesses like pubs, hotels, a lot of the leisure | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
and entertainment sector will pay more. What we have tried to do is | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
get some stability, five years where you will not get a real | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
valuation. We have frozen small business rate relief for two and a | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
half years. 300,000 small businesses do not pay business | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
rates. The Localism Act allows councils to offer discounts to | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
bring businesses into the high street. I could say to you that | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
vision Express is in Stratford- upon-Avon, and a customer, and they | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
are a fantastic service. I am a recent customer for my children, | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
and it is a great service, and that is what you go to the high street | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
for. But Jonathan says businesses are screaming about this, this is | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
one of the biggest issues for them, and the government does not seem to | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
be responding. We have tried to help those businesses at the lower | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
end, and with the Mary Portas review, we have tried to make sure | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
that we also create incentives, for example, or business improvement | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
districts to become a superb business improvement districts, in | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
the way that Stratford was looking up on doing. Are you convinced? | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
There is something that does not stack up in the methodology, | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
because if we are saying that we are delaying the revaluation of | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
business rates is because of businesses seeing an increased | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
costs, yet this is against a valuation that was taken in 2008, | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
at the height of the property boom, so does not work in the way that it | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
was partly to do the first place, which is why what we said is, let's | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
hold the business rate increase for next day and freeze it, and then we | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
can properly review how this is calculated in the first place, | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
because its business rates have gone up further on the basis of an | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
evaluation in 2015, that suggests that the system itself is flawed | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
and is not driving the right level of value. What about rents? | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
Obviously, they vary across the country. How big an issue are | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
Wrens? Isn't that why we are seeing board above shops in parts of the | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
country? Events are an issue, and we are an active discussions | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
constantly with our landlords about arriving at the best possible | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
compromise that we can find in terms of investing into high | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
streets, and we are opening stores still on high streets where | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
possible. But they need to provide value to us and reasons why we can | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
sustain operating in those locations, such as the one that | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
your programme featured, and at the same time opening new businesses as | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
well. A lot of shops on the high street are owned by pension funds | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
and banks, and one of the Porter's review recommendations is that | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
unless they manage them properly, they ought to sell them, and that | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
is one of the reasons you're not getting movement. In places like | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
Stratford, some of those stores are remaining vacant because the | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
landlord is refusing to drop the rent. Aside from the pilot projects, | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
nothing much seems to be happening, why doesn't the Government | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
implement those recommendations? Well, look, we are going to | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
implement the recommendations... When? Well, Parliament's time has | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
to be decided by the government, I cannot give you an answer to that | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
question, but what we have done is we have got Phase 1 at two in place, | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
and in my constituency, it has become a team town with �10,000 | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
help from experts. There's lots of work being done on the area. Nadhim | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
Zahawi, thank you very much. Just to keep you abreast of the | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
breaking news, for once nothing to do with the BBC, the Abu Qatada | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
Court decision that he cannot be deported to Jordan, we have no just | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
seen the BBC reporting that the Home Office strongly disagrees with | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
this decision, so strongly it is going to seek leave to appeal | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
against it. So the Abu Qatada saga continues. | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
Now, it is a difficult choice, the Australian jungle in the spring or | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
a damp, dreich Westminster, I like that word, in November. I think a | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
lot of us can see where Nadine is coming from, but not me, I was | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
watching Homeland on Channel 4. Here she is on something called I'm | :29:46. | :29:56. | |
:29:56. | :29:57. | ||
I think it is possibly one of the worst nights of my life and I don't | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
think I want to go through it again. I have never been so relieved to | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
see the dawn come up, I don't normally want to see it. We have | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
not slept all washed or change our clothes for 24 hours. | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
Should MPs be allowed to court kangaroo testicles and big bugs? I | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
never thought I would get to say that on the BBC on daytime! Or | :30:21. | :30:30. | |
should all extra-curricular activity be curtailed? Here is Adam. | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
There has been a disturbance in the Westminster undergrowth about the | :30:35. | :30:41. | |
news that Nadine Dorries is entering ITV's celebrity jungle. | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
Speaker, I sometimes think the Deputy Prime Minister would like to | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
send me to a jungle in Australia for a month... Rats and snakes, | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
that was even before she went to the jungle! You should be in | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
Parliament or representing your constituents, so the Conservative | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
whip was taken away from the Dean. And it has gone down like a mouldy | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
which are to grow up with a Tory colleague Philip Lee, who spends | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
his time continuing to practise as a GP. The workload by an MP, if you | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
want to do we proper job, is more than a full-time job. I just don't | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
think it is very helpful for someone to have somehow given the | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
impression that we are part-timers and can just disappear to Australia | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
and become a celebrity for four weeks, I think it is disgraceful. | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
But he told me the wider issue of second jobbing MPs should not be a | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
cause for high blood pressure. Politics is not just intellectual | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
ability, it is wisdom and experience and bringing experience | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
to bear from various sectors, be it law, medicine, business. I think | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
Westminster is the better for having people who continue to keep | :31:53. | :32:00. | |
a toe or maybe a foot in another world. So what exotic things to | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
other MPs do when they are not at Parliament? The Conservative Sir | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
Tony Baldry has earned as much as �25,000 a month doing legal work. | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
Labour's David Miliband spent two weeks a year as Vice Chair of | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
Sunderland Football Club. An extra �75,000 a year. | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
Gordon Birtwistle of the Lib Dems is paid �225 a month working as a | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
local councillor in tropical Burnley. | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
You can find plenty of other examples, none of it is against the | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
rules and it is all declared in the Register of Members' interests, | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
which is available to the public. But there has been a rumble in the | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
jungle. The parliamentary pay and expenses watchdog are looking into | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
this whole area and one of the things they have suggested is that | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
maybe MPs should have their pay docked if they do not stick to the | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
day job. Are you sure this is not poisonous?! | :32:58. | :33:05. | |
We are now looking for a new reporter...! Please send your | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
applications. If anyone has seen, I think it was a tarantula, don't let | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
us know! We are joined by former MP Ann Widdecombe, as we all remember | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
she took part in Strictly Come Dancing on the BBC and other | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
television shows after she stood down as an MP, and by the Telegraph | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
blogger Dan Hodges. Welcome. Ann Widdecombe, should MPs just | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
concentrate on the day job? I think it would be a very bad idea indeed | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
if they were absolutely forbidden from having any outside interests. | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
For example, you would wipeout all the professions. If you are a | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
dentist you want to keep your hand in, so to speak, if you are a | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
doctor you want to keep up with the latest developments. If you are a | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
lawyer you will need to practise. You would wipeout the professions, | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
you would wipeout serious people. Let me deal with that point, what | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
would you say to that? There may be an argument for Barnet or public | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
service, I Marsha going to Australia to eat kangaroo testicles | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
counts. -- I am not sure going to Australia. I think given where MPs | :34:15. | :34:21. | |
are now, I have argued for some time it is time to stop kicking MPs | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
and they have to stop kicking themselves. The spectacle of Nadine | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
Dorries going to the jungle raises a broader issue. My view, I think | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
the time has come to pay them a competitive salary, give them a | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
decent pension, do away with the perks, clever accounting of outside | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
interests and say, this is your job, get on with it. I think that is how | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
you can rebuild an element of public confidence. I want to come | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
on to Nadine Dorries in a moment, we will have too much fun if we | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
concentrate on her all the time. Let's deal with the broader issue, | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
you had a second point? Serious people like to stay in touch with | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
what they have been doing. Not everybody has a safe seat, some of | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
them need to stay in touch. If you ban all outside interests, are you | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
going to ban somebody writing? They produce a book and get it published, | :35:14. | :35:20. | |
we are nearby matter? And we nearby and hobbies? I think MPs should be | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
able to do things that do not conflict with their day-to-day job | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
as an MP. I can see how it is possible to continue to write and | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
be an MP, I don't see how it is possible to go to a jungle or spend | :35:35. | :35:44. | |
weeks or even monks... -- weeks or even months... Lots of our MPs, let | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
me put it this way, have other jobs, particularly on the Tory side but | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
not exclusively. You think that is wrong, you think they should be | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
paid a higher salary and do nothing else? That right. I think one can | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
always find exceptions to the rule, and I think writing would be one, | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
but in general terms I do not agree with Ann, I don't see how you can | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
continue to be a full-time MP and be a practising physician. | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
suspect lots of viewers might agree. Fine. Then don't grumble about the | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
quality of Parliament, don't say we don't have any representatives from | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
the professions. When Parliament is discussing the NHS, don't say | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
nobody knows what they are talking about. I understand why you are | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
saying this, but if you are trying to say that there will be some | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
exceptions, the arguments about the exceptions will become | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
unsustainable. I think it is far better to say MPs answer to their | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
electorate, the electorate knows if you're doing a good job or not. If | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
you're doing a good job as a constituency MP it will not be | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
worried that you have produced a bestseller. Leave that to the | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
judgment of the constituents, I think. You wrote your book, you | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
have already said, when you wear an MP. You took part in A celebrity | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
Fit Club and Lewry through a film due at home when you were an MP. | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
Was that the right thing to do? Fits Club was one Sunday every | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
month. Probably good for you. Exceptionally good for me, gave me | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
a lot more energy. But what I would never have done, and I turned down | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
the opportunity, was the jungle. I would never have done Big Brother. | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
There were things I would not do. Every year for five years before I | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
retired, I turned down Strictly. I only did it when I retired. | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
Nadine Dorries made a mistake in going to the jungle? If she asked | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
me, which she did not, I would have advised her not to do that. I | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
believe she has made a mistake. But it she pulls it off in that she | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
connects with the section of the population which does boat in | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
reality shows but not elections, she might be onto something, but I | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
think it is a terrible gamble and a very strong outside chance. As I | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
said before, I think it was a terrible mistake. And I actually | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
quite like her and I had some respect for her independence of | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
view, if you like. But I think she has really damaged herself and I | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
think she has damaged parliaments. The reality, as you know, despite | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
the caricature most MPs are very hard working on behalf of their | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
constituents and I think it really does not help them in presenting | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
the reality of what parliamentary life is like. You are a member of a | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
public -- the public as well as a businessman, what do you make of | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
it? When I vote for an MP I believe I am voting for somebody dedicating | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
themselves full-time to the Sarries position as their role as an MP. I | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
think the judgment was an error. I think where we talk about other | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
activities, they are sadly lacking in the literature they publish at | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
the time of any election coming around. I would suggest that those | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
are significant salaries already been paid for MPs to do full-time | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
roles. The idea that your electorate don't know if you have | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
other interests, the register is well covered and the local press, | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
you always getting headlines, they overestimated my earnings by about | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
four times. The idea people that don't know you do other things is | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
nonsense, but if you are a good MP they will vote on that basis. | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
think many people will agree with you up until the phrase an MP | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
should be paid a lot more, that might be a tougher sell? | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
understand why people would blanche that, but I don't think �60,000 is | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
a comparative salary compared to what MPs from other positions could | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
do. Do we want good people and Parliament or not? If we do, we | :39:56. | :40:03. | |
have to go by the principle that we would in any other field and pay a | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
competitive rate, �60,000 is not. We have a situation where MPs are | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
sleeping in their offices, good MPs are thinking of packing it in at | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
the next election because they can't maintain themselves on their | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
current salary. Ann Widdecombe, it has been a long time since you came | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
to see us, don't leave it so long next time! | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
Thank you for that. And Jonathan Lawson, thank you. | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
As interesting as that story is, it is time to look at what will be | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
making the rest of the news this week. This afternoon, MPs will vote | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
on plans to increase fuel duty by three pence a litre in January. | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
Labour have put down a motion to delay the increase until April. | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
Hoping that Conservative MPs will rebel once again. Tonight, the | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
Prime Minister delivers his annual foreign policy speech at the Lord | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
Mayor's Banquet in the City. Tomorrow evening, Parliament goes | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
into recess, with MPs returning to their constituencies until Monday. | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
Thursday is election day, with Police and Crime Commissioner | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
elections taking place in 41 police force areas across England and | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
Wales and three by-elections in Manchester Central, Cardiff South | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
and Penarth and Corby. To discuss the week ahead we are joined from | :41:19. | :41:27. | |
College Green outside to Parliament by a writer from the Spectator and | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
one from the Independent. Your reaction to Abu Qatada winning his | :41:31. | :41:38. | |
fight against deportation? It is incredibly depressing. The whole of | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
Britain will be thoroughly depressed. What can we do if we | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
cannot support these people? I have not read the full judgment yet but | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
I really don't know where we go from here. Donald, the Home Office | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
says it is seeking leave to appeal, that is hardly a surprise. But what | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
happens? I think it is impossible to say what the Court of Appeal | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
will do. The Home Office will certainly appeal the decision, and | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
Melissa is right that it has taken an incredibly long time. It is a | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
blow to the government in one sense, although I don't think any one | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
could accuse the Government of not doing their best to get rid of Abu | :42:21. | :42:30. | |
Qatada. There is one., it is important -- there is one point, it | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
is important there is a review into how it has taken so long, but it is | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
worth pointing out that it is worth it for our international reputation | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
that the rule of law prevails. Obviously all the governments and | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
most of the country will be hoping this decision is overturned by the | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
Court of Appeal. Picking up one.'s point about how this plays out for | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
the Government and Theresa May, do you think people will understand | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
its, no doubt what the Government will say, which is they have tried | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
their hardest? I think they will. I spoke to a Tory MP yesterday he was | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
singing the praises of Theresa May and has said she has turned out to | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
be an extremely good Home Secretary. She has kept a cool head and won | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
plaudits for her handling of this. She has apparently tried as hard as | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
you possibly can. I think the processes are to blame, it is not | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
for want of trying on the part of this government that this has come | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
to pass. Something different, the elections | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
for Police and Crime Commissioners, Donald, one of the because | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
complaints from viewers has been a lack of information and publicity. | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
The Government has hardly been banging the drum for these | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
elections? There is something slightly half-hearted about it, | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
which I think is disappointing. Actually the police need to be | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
democratically accountable, in my view. I think the pity of it is | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
that this is such a halfway house. If we had a network of elected | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
mayors, I think it would attract much more attention and secondly it | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
would place some other institutions as vibes the police, no also need | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
democratic accountability. -- some other institutions besides the | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
police. I think the disappointment is the Government have not gone the | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
whole hog. Whether publicity is an issue Walmart, I suspect the | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
turnout will be low. -- whether publicity is an issue or not. | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
has been poorly advertised as a whole and I think there is a danger | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
it will become a career path for former MPs. There is an awful lot | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
of former Labour and Tory MPs standing as police commissioners. | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
What we don't want is this to become a kind of alternative career | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
path. You get the car, the six- figure salary and if you are not an | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
MP any more it is a nice job to have. What are they actually going | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
to do? If it will engage the public more next time they need to show | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
they have done something. Briefly, Donald, there seems to now be a | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
political row will be Chris Patten's decision to award George | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
Entwistle, the former Director- General, �450,000 pay-off, what is | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
your response? I think it is a pretty big pay-off and a lot of | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
people will be pretty baffled that it is so big, as they are baffled | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
by some salaries paid by the BBC. I personally think it would be a | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
shame if this resulted in Chris Patten's departure, because I think | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
the BBC... It is very difficult to find people with character and | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
judgment and independence of the nature of Chris Patten. It looks | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
like Entwistle's appointment was a mistake and the pay-off is very | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
difficult for the public to swallow, but I feared it would be very bad | :45:55. | :46:04. | |
for the BBC's independence if We have just heard from Nick Higham, | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
the BBC media correspondent, that Lord Patten, the chairman of the | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
BBC, has written to John Whittingdale of the Commons culture | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
committee about the pay-off to Mr Entwistle, and the letter makes | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
clear that it is what the BBC would have had to pay if they had fired | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
the director-general and that the trust was considering sacking him | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
if he had not volunteered his resignation. That letter will soon | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
be in the public domain, but in the public domain with us until the | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
bitter end of the programme are three of Westminster's finest, well, | :46:37. | :46:43. | |
the best we could get, James Morris, Luciana burger, and last, but not | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
at all least in any way, even though he is a Liberal Democrat, | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
Martin Horwood, welcome to all of you! Can we get your reaction to | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
the appeals tribunal saying that we as a nation cannot deport Abu | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
Qatada? Well, I think it is a very regrettable situation. The Home | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
Secretary has been working extremely hard to make sure this | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
man is deported from the UK to Jordan. Now, I think the Home | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
Office is going to appeal. It is. Our I think the British public will | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
be, frankly, outraged that yet again there is an obstacle in the | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
way to removing this man from the United Kingdom. The Home Secretary | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
has given assurances that he would not be tortured or evidence would | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
not be used gained under torture in a trial against him in Jordan. The | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
appeals commission clearly does not agree with that. Well, I support | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
what James said, that the British government is absolutely correct in | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
mounting an appeal. I have not had a chance to read the judgment, the | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
story has just broken. It is very frustrating and very expensive, the | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
whole exercise. The lawyers are the only gainers from this. I think the | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
point is that you have to obey the rule of law, and sometimes you have | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
to have a judgment you do not like. Back to the News of the morning, | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
which is of course the BBC, and the acting director-general of the BBC, | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
Tim Davey, has been doing some interviews this morning. He would | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
not do one with the Daily Politics, but Chris Patten would not be one | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
with the Sunday Politics yesterday, so we do not feel left out. This is | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
what the new acting director looks like, let's see what he had to say. | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
If the public are going to get journalism they trust from the BBC, | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
I have to be, as director-general, very clear who is running the news | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
operation and ensuring that the journalism that we puts out passes | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
muster. The first decision I have made is to get a grip of that, take | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
action and build trust by putting a clear line of command in. | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
Separately, we are going to look at the individual processes, and there | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
may be disciplinary action. Do you think the BBC is getting a grip of | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
it? Well, I think there is a big issue here, isn't there, about the | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
credibility of the BBC's news reporting? The fact that Newsnight | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
produced that programme really raises a lot of questions about the | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
credibility of news reporting in the UK. Does it? It is one | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
programme. But what it has done is it has forced us into a situation | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
where part of the process of holding the powerful to account, | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
this programme has undermined the credibility of the media and their | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
ability to do that, and I think it raises some very serious questions. | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
Should it be externalised like that? This is about one programme | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
which made two major mistakes, it has been on air for 30 years, the | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
BBC puts at hundreds of hours of news programming every week, | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
including this one. Newsnight made some disastrous mistakes. Should | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
that tarnished the whole of the BBC? I do not think it should | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
tarnish the whole of the BBC. There is a big job to be done in terms of | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
restoring trust and the reputation of the BBC, and no doubt under the | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
new leadership that is what he will be doing. You would not say that | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
Denis McShane tarnishes the whole of the Labour Party. I agree with | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
you! There are a number of different examples, phone-hacking, | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
and now with a lack of control over a very serious allegation that was | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
made by the BBC about an individual without actually a shred of | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
evidence. We understand all of that, nobody is arguing with that. What I | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
am putting forward as an argument, because that is my job, is that | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
maybe too many people are determined to tarnish the whole of | :50:43. | :50:50. | |
the BBC with the egregious mistakes made by one programme. Despite your | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
day at the Lib Dems, I'm going to agree with you! It is very | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
important that we remember that the BBC is overwhelmingly a world-class | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
news organisation and remained a world-class news organisation in | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
most of its output throughout his entire period. I think there are | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
some people in the Conservative Party with an agenda about the BBC, | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
and I do not think we should give that kind of argument a leg up on | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
the back of something which was a rare lapse of judgment. I have no | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
agenda against the BBC. My point is that over a period of time in | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
Britain there has been a collapse in trust in a number of different | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
media organisations, whether it is tabloid newspapers, phone-hacking, | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
and now with the BBC over a report which had the effect of making it | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
impossible to have a credible conversation about very serious | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
allegations about a senior figure, and I think that really does go to | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
the heart of things to do with the responsible media in Britain that | :51:46. | :51:53. | |
we need to address. Of course, part of this has also been happening in | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
Parliament with Tom Watson's allegations. Have these helped or | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
hindered the proper investigation of child abuse? Understand that Tom | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
Watson's allegations have been passed to the police, and that is | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
where they belong. We do not know what they are, but I have no doubt | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
the police will very seriously investigate them. They will have to | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
now. With phone-hacking, the police did not do its job. Where are you | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
honest? Tom Watson chose not to pass what he knew to the police but | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
raise it in a rather sensational way in Prime Minister's questions, | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
and he posed a question that the Prime Minister could not possibly | :52:29. | :52:38. | |
answer. Very briefly, how upset or otherwise will your MP colleagues | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
be about the size of Gestede was a's pay-off? It is more about what | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
our constituents think, it is a massive amount of money, and I | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
think they will be very upset. We await to see the detail of the | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
letter you referred to. It seems like an awful lot of money to mere | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
mortals like you and me, but if it was in his contract, the trust is | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
probably obliged to pay. I broadly agree that it is a lot of money, | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
there was a serious failure in our senior management, and I think the | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
public will be very sceptical about such a large pay-off. All right, | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
let's move on, Jo. As we heard earlier, MPs will later today vote | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
on whether to delay the increase in fuel duty due in January. It is a | :53:21. | :53:31. | |
Labour opposition Day motion, and they want to postpone the increased. | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
This is what Rachel Reeves said earlier. We have said that the | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
government should close down the loopholes which means that many | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
employment agencies are avoiding tax on a massive scale by setting | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
up umbrella companies to employ people, avoiding national insurance | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
and tax. If you close down that loophole, the Treasury reckon that | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
they could bring in about �650 million, which would more than pay | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
for this postponement of the fuel duty. Do you agree that the | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
proposed rise in petrol duty should be postponed? Well, I think this is | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
an absurd situation with this rather absurd notion which has been | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
put by the Labour Party today... Fine, should the rise be postponed? | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
I think it needs to be looked at in the Autumn Statement, in the right | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
kind of way. This is a completely opportunistic motion from Labour. | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
They are asking us to pay through a tax relief that they introduced for | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
a fuel duty increase which they legislated for. It is an absurd | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
opportunistic opposition Day motion. But you are not sure whether you | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
support the idea. If you were talking to your constituents, would | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
you be agreeing with the rise being postponed? We have already removed | :54:41. | :54:47. | |
the fuel duty escalator, cancelled at least two of the proposed rises, | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
saving �158 for ordinary consumers. We need to see what comes into the | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
autumn statement. I would like to see it considered, but it has cost | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
4.5 billion so far to get rid of these rises, and that has got to | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
come from somewhere. If we do see the increase in January, the | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
average household will see an increase in their fuel bill, just | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
the tax going up �200 per year. Since the election, we have seen | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
fuel prices rise by 12%. You only have to look at the Which? report | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
which says 6 million people are really struggling at have to dip | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
into their savings. Measures brought in by the previous Labour | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
government, it is absurd. Labour plans six fuel duty rises. When we | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
were in government, at the height of the financial crisis, we | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
postponed increases in the fuel duty escalator. Cannot really be | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
paid for by closing tax loopholes? -- can it. The government will not | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
actually released the figures of how much is being evaded by these | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
umbrella companies. It estimates that it is 650 million, but it | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
could be as high as 1 billion, and we are saying, let's use a | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
proportion of that. Introduced by the previous government. Should it | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
be postponed? Having cited Which? organisation, people dipping into | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
their savings to cover the cost of petrol, it is the number one | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
concern. We generally like green taxes, but it would be nice if | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
there was a way to work something out that was not automatic, in the | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
way that Labour legislator for it, but which was sensitive to the | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
situation that people are in. you be voting for the motion | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
question market is purely opportunistic, they have done what | :56:30. | :56:35. | |
they did in the previous week on the EU budget, trying to get | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
parliament to vote for something it cannot decide. It worked quite | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
well! How many e-mails to get from constituents who are feeling the | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
cost-of-living increases? I am sure the same kind of proportion as you, | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
and we blame Labour for leaving us in that situation. You legislated | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
for this increase, let's not forget, you should have thought about this | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
when you were in government. constituents are writing to their | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
MPs... It is clearly an issue, but it is not an issue that needs to be | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
resolved by a totally opportunistic Labour amendment to a motion today. | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
Briefly, before we go, why are reductions in the price of crude | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
oil not reflected in fuel prices? Why can't we see the breakdown in | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
the price of petrol and the duty that is pushed on it? We need to | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
move towards a system where there is a greater correlation, but it is | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
not going to be achieved by this kind of motion in parliament today. | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
Before we say goodbye, we know you want to find that the answer to our | :57:36. | :57:43. | |
quiz. What trialled did Nadine Dorries have to undergo on the | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
programme I'm A Celebrity? Being buried alive with insects, being | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
buried alive with constituents, and it took John Humphrys of taming a | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
coma? It is being buried with insects, I think. That is the | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
correct answer. Put up your hands if he watched the programme last | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
night! None of you watched it last night? Are you not curious? Are you | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
going to watch its tonight? I am told it is on tonight. We have got | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
an important vote in Parliament tonight! I don't, but I will not be | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
watching either. We have to go now, because having seen the acting DG, | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
we are going to have a whip-round to buy him a tie. It is called | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
being casual! That is all for today, the One O'Clock News is starting on | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
BBC One now, plenty more news, particularly the failure of the | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
government to deport Abu Qatada, leading the news for a change, | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
rather than the BBC, and we will be here at noon tomorrow with all the | :58:44. | :58:47. |