Browse content similar to 22/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. They have lasted for centuries but Nick Clegg says | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
that they are it -- they are arcane and in need of modernisation. MPs | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
will be discussing just what should be done with the laws on succession. | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
David Cameron says the war against terror in Africa may last a | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
generation. That does not stop the government releasing details of the | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
latest army cuts. Three cheers for France and Germany, | :01:05. | :01:13. | |
celebrating 50 years since friendship. Do and is David Cameron | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
really a man of the people? In fact, he makes sandwiches. Not the Prime | :01:17. | :01:27. | |
:01:27. | :01:27. | ||
Minister, a man from Subway. All that in the next hour. With us | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
is the Lib Dem president, Tim Farron. Let us talk about the | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
economy. Figures show that there has been a rise in public sector | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
borrowing. The figure for December, excluding financial interventions, | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
was �15.4 billion compared to �14.8 billion in the same month the | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
previous year. It is the six months in a role that the Government has | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
had to borrow more than it did the year before. When you think about | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
how much the Government has made about bringing down the deficit, | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
borrowing higher in December than last year, and the six-month | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
running that it has been higher, the board one target is under | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
threat. What is going wrong? It is not great news for all the weight | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
statistic only matters in as much as it affects ordinary voters. -- | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
although any statistic only matters. You see the actual reduction in the | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
deficit, 25%, that is progress. Unemployment is still coming down | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
and nobody is mentioning, because the Government has plotted a middle | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
way, a sensible course, our interest rates are still rock | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
bottom. As a con -- as a consequence, people can afford to | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
pay their mortgages and businesses pay their loans. But living | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
standards are continuing to be squeezed. Wages are frozen are | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
falling and although one upon it is coming down, there are many people | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
without jobs -- although unemployment is coming down, there | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
are many people without jobs. You're missing your own targets and | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
your own projections. Personally, and I have said that before, I do | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
not take the view that achieving neatness on statistics is the major | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
objective of government. So why make such a big deal about deficit- | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
reduction? It helps us to ensure that we have the confidence from | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
outside which keeps interest rates low and keeps people in jobs. | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
that confidence is diminishing outside Britain. The economic | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
rating is out of -- the trouble a rating is in threat. I expect we | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
will be fine. We are at the strongest and healthiest economy. | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
You need to look at the situation nationally, or internationally. | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Whether you blame the bankers or Labour, the Government inherited a | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
basket case. Anybody from any party who says there is a sunshine or | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
option is living in cloud cuckoo land. The Triple A rating is based, | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
in part, on you being able to fulfil what you promised, to bring | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
the deficit down. Did you think Britain will be able to hold on to | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
that credit rating? I think so. But the pressure comes from both sides | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
and there will be those who say that, yes, the debt is higher than | :04:10. | :04:18. | |
we would like but we must cut more. Do you agree? Not in the slightest. | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
We would end up in recession. It would be a stupid thing to do. | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
would like to spend more? alternative is to pour your way out | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
of debt. But borrowing figures shows that is what you're doing. | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
That is below -- that is where the growth you have got has come from. | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
Tax receipts is going up which shows there is strength in the | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
economy. If but I am pragmatic. You should not be dogmatic with | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
people's lives. We have to do what works. We have kept things on an | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
even keel and have kept the economy strong. The emphasis is on a | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
sensible strategy. Some of those on the right are saying, cut, cut, cut. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
Judge George Koren? He wants to continue -- George Osborne. He | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
wants to continue austerity. It is not doing what it said on the 10th. | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
There is a nonsense that there is a government plan to have austerity. | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
We have austerity. It is not our plan, it is not Labour's plan. It | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
is something that we have entered into because of mistakes in our | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
economy. Austerity is what we have got, not what we want. Borrowing is | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
up slightly, and you are confident of keeping the Triple A rating. GDP | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
figures out on Friday. Will the economy contract? It is entirely | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
possible that it will. We might be bumping along the bottom for some | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
months or years to come. There are alternatives. We could spend more | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
money, which is tempting. The danger is you end up losing not | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
just the rating, but all international credibility and | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
interest rates go up. To go back on the interest rates, and how | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
important that is, a 1% rise in interest rates would mean �100 a | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
month extra been spent from the average mortgage holder. If we did | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
what Ed Balls is calling for, it would be a 5% rise, leading to | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
massive numbers losing their homes. It is it difficult middle course. | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
What is something different, our daily quiz. The questionnaires, who | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
recently bolstered the new David Lloyd George? Was a bridge Forsyth, | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
Baroness Trumpington or Andrew Neil or Dennis Skinner? At the end of | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
the show, Tim Farron has the honour of giving us the correct answer. It | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
is an important day in Parliament. MPs will debate a Bill designed to | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
give a nip and tuck to the constitution, specifically our | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
royal succession laws. But is it long-overdue or being hastily | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
rushed through? Let us look at the detail. Nick Clegg wants to modify | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
what he calls arcane laws that date as far back as the Treason Act, | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
pass under Edward the third in 1351. It refers to the elder son and heir. | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
It refers to the elder son and heir. Also in line for a tidy up his the | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
Act of Settlement, past Wembley in the third was king in 70 No 1. -- | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
when it won him the third was king. That tidying up exercise, | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
criticised for being rushed, will end discrimination against female | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
royals so that men will no longer take precedent over women in the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
order of succession meaning that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
first child can become monarch even if it is Aperol. It will remove the | :07:44. | :07:53. | |
bar on royal heirs marrying bar on royal heirs marrying | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
Catholics. -- even it is a girl. We are joined by the Conservative MP, | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
Mary MacLeod, who used to advise the Queen on policy matters, and by | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
Paul Flynn, the Labour MP and Republican. Do you support the | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
reforms? I do. As we only have these bills once every 300 years, | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
there is a chance to make a decent job of it. I think the main change | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
that most people would like to see is that we skip a generation, | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
because the time that -- because by the time that Charles and carrots | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
in 30 years' time, if the Queen lives as long as her mother did, | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
Charles will be in his eighties. There are doubts about whether he | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
is a suitable person to be a monarch. I think we should vote on | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
the subject. We should be able to choose between Charles, William or | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
another citizen. What do you think of that? Score in a generation is | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
ridiculous and it will never happen. -- skipping a generation. | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
Fundamental to the Royal Family is this sense of service and duty. | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
Therefore, it will pass from one generation to the next. That will | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
absolutely happen. But I am excited about today because I think we are | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
creating history and in an -- in a society we want to get more women | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
setting up businesses and on to boards, we have had a great female | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
Prime Minister and a great Queen, let us build on the Jubilee and | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
make this change. You think it is never going to happen. What | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
evidence do you have the people would like to see it skip a | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
generation? If we had a referendum, we would see it. By the time in 20 | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
years' time, it will be much stronger. We have broken the taboo. | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
People would say that you could not change anything, that these rules | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
of succession work after a Tim Stone many years ago. Today, we're | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
going to change that and we can change it in other ways. Is this | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
not an opportunity to do what he is suggesting? It is an opportunity to | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
suggest it. So it might be an amendment that is debated? Be it | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
might be. Do you agree? Not really. I think we should move it forward | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
in a progressive way with what is on the paper already. My fears are | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
that what is good about the monarchy is that it is above | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
politics. And the difficulty is that if we are allowed to elect | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
somebody through a referendum, that person is going to have the stigma | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
of being not chosen... situation is that the Queen has | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
been an exceptional monarch and has behaved faultlessly for all these | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
years, but the others have not. We have had some that have been mad, | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
bad and sad and some of them have been all three. The likelihood is | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
that Charles, who has been meddling in politics for a long time, will | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
find it irresistible to stay above things. He said he would leave the | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
country if the hunting Act was passed. It was that he did not. But | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
he is likely to be meddling in other policies and if that happens, | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
it will be a constitutional crisis. But you still like the idea of a | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
monarchy? At would prefer a better system but now is the chance to | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
institute reform. -- I would prefer. I think it is important for this | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
bill to keep succinct and focused and let us get something through | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
Parliament. Let us look at the focus. There are reports that the | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
Queen was not consulted and that Prince Charles had concerns. What | :11:20. | :11:28. | |
do you think they are making of the tall? This was put to the | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
Commonwealth in 20th October 11. -- making of it all. -- October, 2011. | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
I have not discussed it with Prince Charles, so I'm not sure if he has | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
concerns. I feel that he will feel, and looking at the work he has done | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
with the Prince's Trust, promoting female entrepreneurs, and the work | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
he has done, I do not think he will be against this in principle. | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
a problem is that it does not get rid of the religious discrimination. | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
It would still be impossible to get a Catholic as monarch. I think that | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
is an outrage. That would be a problem, if the child marries a | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
Catholic. What would happen then? As the rules stand, but would not | :12:13. | :12:20. | |
be acceptable. And rules should be changed. -- that would not be | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
acceptable. The difficulty is that the monarch is the head of the | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
Church of England which is why that is maintained. The answer is to | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
disestablish the Church of England. It is something that I believe we | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
should do. I feel passionately that the Queen feels that her role as | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
head of the Church of England is incredibly important to her. I | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
think the thing for us to do, going forward, is to keep focused on this | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
specific part of the Bill which is saying that we should change the | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
male progenitor issue, let us of that. Across the country, I think | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
most people think that is a fair way to go. -- let us solve that. | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
But the religious thing is being changed too. The problem is that | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
you are not barred from marrying a Catholic but if the child is raised | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
Catholic, it will not be allowed to take the throne. Are you happy with | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
that? I think the bill is focusing on changing one thing. There are | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
three things, but that would take more discussion and decision making. | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
Is this being rushed through then? In is not to reform. It is | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
reinforcing prejudice against religion. Most people in this | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
country are nominally Church of England but the influence is going | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
down. Muslims, Catholics, evangelicals, they can say, why | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
should one of us not be head of state? The head of state is a | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
crucial part of the role. It has not been thought through properly | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
by Nick Clegg. One thing at a time. It is appropriate we are looking at | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
the issue of succession. The issue to do with the faith of the mark is | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
significant only in so far as we have a state church. As it happens, | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
the Queen is a Christian. Great, but she could be succeeded by | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
people who were not. It is peculiar that the Church would have someone | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
at their head who did not share their faith. It is bad for the | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
Church. They continue to be a prisoner of the Establishment. The | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
Church would be more effective and a say that as a committed Christian, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
if they were let free. That we the government tried to get this | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
through, without touching the sides, it was an odd coalition. -- the way | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
the Government tried. But there is not to rush. Why is it being pushed | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
through? As a new parliamentarian, I am quite relieved that we can | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
show that we can get things through Parliament in a reasonable time | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
frame. Most people think that Parliament takes months and years | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
for anything to happen. But we have started this discussion. I wrote an | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
article about this in 2002 and people have written before and | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
afterwards saying that it should happen. I think it is long overdue. | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
But this change could last for 300 years and it is doing it in two | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
days. There are all kinds of problems. That is why I think we | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
should be the focus. It might work out that the future monarch will | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
have the job and her younger brother would have all the money. | :15:28. | :15:37. | |
The Duchy of Cornwall. That is what the questions that was asked. The | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
rights of -- the rights and privileges go to the male heir. How | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
is this affected by the new rules? This is an example of the rush to | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
build. There are so many unintended consequences of the bill but the | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
Government has not considered. on succession, we can agree and I | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
think that is why we should do that. But what about the unintended | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
consequences because constitutionally, they are | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
important. I think we are dealing with succession right now and these | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
other issues could come back at a later stage. The this is going to | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
be incomplete. But if so, we will be left with important questions. | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
They will be dealt within due course? They need to be. There is a | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
good issue about the inheritance of property. There is implications on | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
the hereditary principle. If you look at the House of Lords, I think | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
it opens an interesting debate about the future of Britain. | :16:30. | :16:36. | |
sure the House of Lords will listen to these huge implications, for | :16:36. | :16:42. | |
those who inherit large estates. I am sure they will have a go at that | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
because they will see the same principle of wine, many of them | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
will be against it. I think one appeared this weekend, eight | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
daughters that cannot inherit, but yet they are working the estate. I | :16:52. | :17:01. | |
What about the issue of the royal veto when it comes to certain laws? | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
It is monstrous, this is done quietly, in secret. Tam Dalyell... | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
The Queen still has the right, in theory, to be does some laws. | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
does. I doubt whether Prince Charles would have signed the | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
hunting Bill, he was passionately against it, as he said, and if they | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
do not sign it, there is a constitutional crisis. Tam Dalyell | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
had a bill, a very sensible built to take the power of declaring war | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
from the monarch into Parliament, and it was sabotaged, we are told, | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
by the Queen at the advice of Tony Blair. In 2003, we had a vote | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
before we went to war in Iraq. Finally, the Lib Dem conference | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
used to vote on whether to keep the monarchy. What has changed? I think | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
most of us think in an ideal democratic state, you would not | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
start with a monarchy, but that is not where we are, but it has | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
evolved and serves us well. Many people in the UK, they are jealous | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
of us because we have a head of state who is above politics. | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
need to look at this year with the Jubilee, how much unity and | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
excitement and inspiration it created. The royal spin machine has | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
been going at top speed, and if we had had this discussion at the time | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
when Diana died... It might have been very different. Nowadays they | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
are untouchable, the Queen has done a marvellous job, but beware the | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
future. And let's bring in change for women! Thank you both very much. | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
A list is published today of the 100 most prominent Bangladeshis in | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
public life, including a number of prominent figures from culture, | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
media, sport, business and the professions, but very few senior | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
politicians. There is only one Bangladeshi MP, but if the number | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
of MPs work in proportion to the number of British Bangladeshis, | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
they should be around five. It is a situation reflected across other | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
communities, too. There are 28 black and minority ethnic members | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
of parliament, but if that was to match the make-up of the country, | :19:08. | :19:18. | |
:19:18. | :19:21. | ||
I believe there is enough interest and optimism in the Bangladeshi | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
community in local government. What I would like to see is a | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
development, taking that further international politics, so the | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
talented people that we have on our list, that the mainstream parties | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
pick them up and encourage them to stand in winnable seats to play a | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
fully-fledged light in British mainstream politics representing | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
the wider community. Roshanara Ali, the one Bangladeshi MP in | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
parliament, and Alok Sharma at, Conservative MP for Reading West, | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
with responsibility for engagement for engaging ethnic-minority | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
communities. How do you encourage more people from your background to | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
stand for Parliament? I set up a charity called Uprising, backed by | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
the three party leaders, to prepare and support the next generation of | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
young leaders to get them into politics, into leadership across | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
the sector, the media and other sectors as well. How? You make sure | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
they are properly mentored, given training and support, and it is a | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
10 or 15 year project. You start when they are young, you make sure | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
they are known in political circles, so that when opportunities come, | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
politicians can encourage those people within the parties to get | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
into power. But there is a responsibility among the political | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
parties as well, which is that they need to take a leadership role to | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
make sure that happens. Without being too personal, what are you | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
doing? Are you encouraging people from ethnic-minority backgrounds to | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
get involved in politics, even if it is employing someone in your | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
office or whatever it is? We went up in terms of numbers of MPs from | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
two up to 11 at the last election. There is a long way to go, and | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
mentoring is one of the ways of doing it. But when you talk to | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
people from British Britons from ethnic minority backgrounds, second | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
or third generation, they are looking to succeed on merit. The | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
way to do that is exactly through mentoring, getting people involved | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
at grassroots levels. I think it works. Does it work, though? We | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
always talk about the number of women who came into Parliament | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
during Tony Blair's time because of the all-women shortlists. His there | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
still a case to be made for ethnic minority candidates to be put | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
forward in the same way? Not in the same way, because you have to be | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
proportionate. Women make up 50% of the population, ethnic minorities | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
closer to 10%. But there are more things parties can do, for instance | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
doing more around positive action, setting clear regional targets, for | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
instance, to say, when you are selecting 30 MPs, make sure a | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
proportion of those of from minority backgrounds, make sure a | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
significant proportion are women. Even the parties do not use all- | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
women shortlists, it is important they set the tone and the leaders | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
of the parties set the tone. In my case, the all-women shortlist | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
process was very successful for getting women in, but actually | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
getting ethnic-minority Owen was a challenge. I won through an open | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
shortlist, so we need to make sure that ethnic minority groups who | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
want to go into politics, it is recognised that there are other | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
barriers, including discrimination. What about targets? Would you | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
introduce them? I think it is about people succeeding on merit. You do | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
not want targets at all? Third- generation people want to succeed | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
on merit, but that is through mentoring, getting people involved | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
in the political process. That is the way forward, rather than saying, | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
you know, there ought to be positive discrimination for them or | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
any other group. I am not talking about positive discrimination. But | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
there is a responsibility of political parties to take the | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
leadership role that is required, because otherwise you have a lot of | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
very impressive, talented people in the communities, and they cannot | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
get into the system because the system is too close. That has to be | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
opened up, and there is a real problem. How many MPs from ethnic | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
minorities from the Liberal Democrats? 0. That is pretty | :23:24. | :23:32. | |
dreadful. Absolutely, we have fought long as for Racial Equality, | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
and we have no... Why not? It is a really good question. First of all, | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
it is an indictment against the party, and we have to be a lot | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
about it. You are the President. have a leadership programme about | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
under-represented groups being given training and support. One | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
thing we have not got, I mean, we do not have any safe seats. The | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
Labour Party and the Tories have lists, and they have both done a | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
job. Some seats are safer than others, even in the Liberal | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
Democrat ranks. If you were really committed... My personal view is | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
that we should do it. As I say, you have flattered me to say that we | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
have saved seeds, that is not my view, and I do not want to drop the | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
ball into seats that look good on paper. -- safe seeds. Far better to | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
buck the trend by giving support to people on the ground. What I was | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
going to say, the danger in any high position, even positive | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
discrimination does not work. I did some shortlisting and found that | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
the four people are shortlisted work public school boys, white | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
public-school boys. If you look at the numbers, the Liberal Democrats | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
time and again put candidates in seats they could not win, ethnic | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
minority and women candidates. You have got to look at the indirect | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
practices. We tend to lose nearly 600 of the seats that we stand in! | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
There is indirect discrimination which needs to be addressed. People | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
feel... Basically, when they put themselves, talented people put | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
themselves forward and do not get a fair chance, because they are being | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
used as fodder. That is not acceptable either. What to think in | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
terms of numbers for the 2015 election? It is not a question of | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
people being used as fodder. Historically, it has been. | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
Conservative associations select people they believe best represent | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
them. I was a local candidate in Reading, not part of any | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
affirmative action. A-list. Absolutely, and I was selected for | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
the first see that I applied for, because my local party picked the | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
candidate they thought perform the best. What about having ethnic | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
minority candidates on and a list? I have never called for a third of | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
action, privately or publicly, and I think it is about succeeding on | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
merit. Lots of people are coming through the system they will be | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
coming forward and becoming candidates, I am quite sure, | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
because they are talented and do it on their own merits. Do you have a | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
ballpark figure of ethnic minority candidates standing in 2015? We are | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
in the process of selecting candidates, but let's see where we | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
end up. The key thing is that people want to succeed on merit, | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
and that absolutely applies his second and third generation. | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
Whether the Liberal Democrats? It appears their electoral hopes are | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
withering on the vine, and recent by-election results suggest that | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
many voters polled them in withering contempt. Giles has more. | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
Two and a half years ago, there was a joke that he could not buy a Lib | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
Dem manifesto because the party had sold out. Now, although the shine | :26:40. | :26:48. | |
has rolled and Bath -- the shine has rubbed off, they are guaranteed | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
weather proof until 2015. 1,500 local council has gone, new polling | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
lows, three by-elections in which three times they lost their deposit, | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
were behind UKIP and got less than 5% of the vote. The party is | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
completely asleep. It is in a state of shock, really a trauma as a | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
result of the coalition. coalition compromise led one Lib | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
Dem of 10 years to be in his party for Labour, and a long-standing | :27:15. | :27:22. | |
voters should be door in his face. You are there to fight for society, | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
a vision of a society, the values of a society which you are | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
committed to. There's no point and finally getting your grubby hands | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
on power and the first thing you do is abandon those policies and | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
values you believe in. But more Lib Dems have stayed. Policy has been | :27:41. | :27:48. | |
agreed and enacted, the coalition has not fallen apart, and the Lib | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
Dems trumpets key achievements, the pupil premium, taking people out of | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
income tax. Will that be enough in 2015? It is important the party | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
does not fight the election by saying, this is what has happened | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
in the last five years. That can be part of it, that is inevitable. But | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
the next election has got to be bought on the future. Principally | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
the economy, we need to be showing a Liberal Democrat vision for the | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
economy of the UK, because that is very different from what George | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
Osborne will be saying, for example. The carrots narrative is that at | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
the next general election Liberal Democrats will be punished for | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
their part in the coalition. -- the current narrative. They will be | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
particularly worried about an area like this, Bren Central, where the | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
sitting MP as a majority of just over 1,000. But they do benefit | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
from incumbency, and some in the party think there's something they | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
can do about it. Working to buck the first past the post system is | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
something that Liberal Democrats are used to, and people should not | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
underestimate that resilience within the party. But what many of | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
those Lib Dems who go out campaigning ones do here is what | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
Lib Dem policies and manifesto commitments outside the coalition | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
are going to be, and timing is everything. As a party, we have got | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
to have at least six or eight months to campaign independently on | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
our own vision for the future. You cannot do it in three or four weeks. | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
If it is left to the last three or four weeks, we will be dead. | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
Jamming! You'll be dead and as you start campaigning independently. -- | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
charming. He is right that if we do not campaign as an independent | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
force, we will go down with the Tories, that is the correct, but we | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
have been campaigning since day one, it is a new world for us, being in | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
coalition government, being in power at all is something that is | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
only in the lifetime memory of people who did know Lloyd George. | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
And only as a result of going into government with the Tories. You say | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
the Tories are going down. If we are attached to the coalition and | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
presenting ourselves as just a part of that and we do not distinguish | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
ourselves, we will get punished, just like the Conservatives will. | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
But we must remember that coalitions are a different type of | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
government, two political parties that things are different things, | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
and we will be fighting each other perfectly correctly and | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
appropriately in local elections, seeing very big differences, three | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
times more Liberal Democrat gains from Conservatives... Right, but it | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
has been dismal in terms of by- election performances, the worst | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
ever by-election results, 2% in Rotherham. I mean, you have lost | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
deposits, come below all the other parties. Let's get back to this | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
idea that he will go down with the Tories, they are actually narrowing | :30:36. | :30:46. | |
:30:46. | :30:48. | ||
the polling lead of labour. Perhaps Only if you believe the last poll. | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
Answer the question about the Tories. If you are so convinced | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
they're going down, why not split with them now? The point I'm making | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
is that people will not be voting for the coalition at the next | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
election. They will be voting for the parties that formed the | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
coalition. What Britain has got his stable government and something | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
which many people pretend it would not happen if we had a balanced | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
parliament, a secure government. It would be foolish for any part of | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
the coalition to dismantle that before polling day. The coalition | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
should last five years. That does not mean that Lib Dems should not | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
be campaigning vociferously for a stronger economy and a fairer | :31:27. | :31:36. | |
society. So to make this clear, you're not advocating a split, but | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
you are advocating a separate campaign next year. We should | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
campaign separately now. You would like a divorce now. There is a | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
difference between campaigning separately. Lib Dems and Tories | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
will be fighting each other in the local elections this year and yet | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
nationally, we will govern together. We have a Labour conservative | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
coalition in Cumbria, for example, and they will be fighting each | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
other at the county elections. It is a normal thing in most of Europe | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
to have two or more parties in coalition that govern together and | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
fight each other on the doorstep. That is clear, but what about | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
presentation? Nick Clegg gave a separate report after the Leveson | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
Inquiry. Do you want to see that happening on everything? I thought | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
it was a great step and it was something we should have done | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
earlier. It is important at a time of coalition, something that | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
England have not seen before, but we demonstrate that a coalition is | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
not two political parties that agree with each other assimilating. | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
The arithmetic dictated that we had one choice, to go into coalition | :32:40. | :32:47. | |
with the Tories. We accept the coalition, but we do not become | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
less liberal. But the polls suggest that you support has withered away. | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
Distinguishing yourself has not worked. You have not persuaded | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
people that the Lib Dem policies that they voted for are still there. | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
It is hard to be sure what the cause is. It could be that the Lib | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
Dems went into power for the first time in 70 years and that has | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
shocked everybody. And you could not keep to you're principles about | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
conservation -- tuition fees and reform. To be clear, we have only | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
managed to get 65% of our principles into policies. That is a | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
pretty good deal. He said you liked Nick Clegg giving a separate review | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
after the Leveson Inquiry. Would you like him to do a different | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
speech to David Cameron on Europe? I think it is clear that we have | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
different views on Europe. Nick Clegg gives different speeches on | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
Europe. Should he do his own version of this speech on Europe? | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
He kind of already has done. I'm sure he will again. Yes, it is | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
important that we clarify that we are in coalition and we believe in | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
a collegiate approach, rather than just throwing crockery. Nick Clegg | :33:59. | :34:07. | |
said we have legislation guaranteeing sharing of power in | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
Brussels. He said it was inadvisable to go further than this. | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
I agree, but I think there should be an in out referendum. At the | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
point that there is a substantial treaty change put to us, which is | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
what he is saying. That is government policy now. But it is | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
not. A referendum on a treaty change and referendum -- is not the | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
same as having an in out referendum. What we have all was said and what | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
Lib Dem policy has always been is that next time we have something | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
like the Lisbon Treaty, we should not just a referendum on a treaty, | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
it should be an in out random. It would be a proxy for an in out | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
referendum anyway. We have always said that it would be mad to have a | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
referendum now, in the middle of getting out of the worst financial | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
crisis in living memory. It would be navel contemplation of an | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
unforgivable level. What would the wording be going into the next | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
election? And in out referendum? the point that there is a major | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
change. I think David Cameron's speech is going to be interesting. | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
It will be the moment when we find out whether he is a leader or a | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
four. Up until 20 years ago, the Tory party was pro European. | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
Margaret Thatcher said that the Labour Party the unease would pull | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
us out. -- Louise. It is clearly a massive net benefit. We will end up | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
leaving the European Union unless we get leadership from the top that | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
explains to the public why it is in our interest to remain in it. | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
Looking up the numbers, you won 57 seats at the last election with a | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
24% of the vote. The pollsters say that if you remain at 10%, or even | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
15%, you will be reduced to just 10 MPs. Peter knows better than that. | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
On my uniform swing... I would never hold my seat in the first | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
place. The reality is that Lib Dems exist... How many seats were you | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
keep Q Matt we were aiming to make games and we hope to hang on to | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
what we have got now. -- how many will you keep? We hope to hang on | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
to what we have got now. Any losses are unacceptable. We are digging in | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
to make sure that does not happen. If you look at by-elections on the | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
ground over the last few months, Lib Dems are gaining seats, even | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
some from Labour. I'm not deluding myself. It is a tough time to be a | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
let-down. But it has been a lot worse within my lifetime. It is | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
almost enough to make David Cameron feel nostalgic about the EU wrote | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
debacle. Almost. Only a week ago, Europe was David Cameron's main | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
preoccupation. But now he is tackling the fall-out from a | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
hostage drama and the rising threat of terrorism in North Africa. In | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
the debate in the House last night, he said that Britain would provide | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
intelligence and counter- intelligence -- counter -- | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
intelligence in counter-terrorism to help the network. First, here | :37:10. | :37:18. | |
are some highlights from last night. Together with our partners in the | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
region, we are in the midst of a generational struggle against an | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
ideology which is in -- which is an extreme distortion of the Islamic | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
faith and which holds that mass murder and terror are not only | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
acceptable but necessary. We must tackle this poisonous thinking at | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
home and abroad and resist the ideologue's attempt to divide the | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
world into a clash of civilisations. The task is to understand the | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
nature of the threat, more decentralised, more fragmented, | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
taking advantage of the uncovered spaces and security vacuums in | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
parts of North Africa. Does the Prime Minister agree that | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
eliminating a religious and political ideology is not an easy | :37:58. | :38:05. | |
thing to do, as evidenced by Iraq and Afghanistan? Can he give a | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
guarantee that his crusading zeal, in the event of not being able to | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
get many West African troops, will not lead him to the use of British | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
troops in the future? I do not believe that the only answer, or | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
the right answer is security and military action. As I said, and the | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
Leader of the Opposition said, what we need to do is use all the | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
elements at our disposal, development response, political | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
response, working with partners. That does not mean that a tough | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
security response is not part of what is required. The concept of | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
containment, when considering these long-term problems, it has served | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
us well, for 70 years in the cold war and for 38 years in relation to | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
Northern Ireland. It would help avoid an oscillation of policy from | :38:59. | :39:07. | |
over involvement on the ground of one extreme, to too little | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
involvement and over-emphasis on withdrawal at the other. And we are | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
joined by a Labour defence spokesman, Kevin Jones and Patrick | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
Mercer, the Conservative MP and former shadow minister for home and | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
security. Welcome. Do you agree with David Cameron that there has | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
to be an international response to this terrorist threat? Absolutely. | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
In exactly the same way that there was an international response to | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
the threat on the Afghanistan Pakistan border and also inside | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
Iraq. This is the same problem with a slightly different part of the | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
world. And they have ruled out boots on the ground. At the moment, | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
certainly. Do you think we will have to have troops? I do not know. | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
I have not seen, nor will I see, the latest intelligence. I think | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
that we have got to be prepared for whatever is required. The people | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
are quite right that the over use phrase, the Al-Qaeda franchise is | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
spreading and moving. So we must be prepared to spread that move with | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
it. Do you agree? We have got to prepare for all eventualities. That | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
is why the SDSR that took place when the Government came in was | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
already outdated. It was not even mentioned. We are facing | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
redundancies today and the Prime Minister as potentially asking the | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
Armed Forces to do more. There are serious questions about the SDSR | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
and whether it is now a document that should be shelved. | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
Strategic Defence Review, let us give it the full names since not | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
everybody knows what it is. It is bad timing, at best, to be | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
announcing these cuts to the Armed Forces when, on the other hand, | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
David Cameron is talking about our response to the threat in Mali and | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
across North Africa. There is a great irony to it. I'm sure the | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
Government is embarrassed about it. Is it wrong? I don't think so. | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
There needs to be savings made in military expenditure. If you look | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
at what could have happened otherwise, the other two parties | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
would have spent �100 billion on Trident and there would be more | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
cuts in army personnel of that had happened. What about the cuts? | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
Could we actually send troops? Do we have the manpower? Very good | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
question. Of course, this are predicated on the fact that | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
Afghanistan is going to nicely end neatly at 2014, with hardly a Tommy | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
Atkins to be seen in the country. Wrong answer. Secondly, we have to | :41:43. | :41:49. | |
re- intervene? Who knows? The point is there will not be a bubble of | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
troops left over, some of whom can be disbanded and some of whom can | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
be sent to North Africa. It does not work like that. I had been | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
saying this sense 2010. And on that basis, Labour supporting the | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
Government in terms of sending intelligence and logistical support | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
to back up the French. What else can we offer them? If we have the | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
capability. One of the capabilities is the centre Na Li aircraft, which | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
is coming out of service and two years. The his capabilities that | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
have been taken out of the SDSR, now being relied upon. In terms of | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
redundancies, we have people being made redundant who are surfing in | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
Afghanistan alongside Prince Harry. They will be getting their P45s | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
when they come back. That sends the wrong message. What you say to | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
that? A one to make a point about the intervention -- what do you | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
want to say about that? I want to make a point about the intervention | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
anywhere in the world. We should offer support, absolutely, but the | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
lesson we have to learn from Iraq is that even if you retract -- | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
accept the premise of the Iraq war, two Western nations going in as | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
liberators, but seen as occupiers, that is going to be a counter | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
productive mood. -- counter- productive move. And is that | :43:06. | :43:14. | |
incredible., but you could escalate it if we go in marching like we did | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
in Afghanistan, but it could be dealt with locally. I am not sure | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
that it could be dealt with locally but we should put the accent on the | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
local forces. There has a great phrase, getting your hands stuck in | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
the mangle. The fact remains, we were attacked lethally, although | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
not as lethally as we might have been, in 2005, by an African gang | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
of Islamists. Old people meant our people no good whatsoever. They | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
intended to kill hundreds on the tube. Anybody that analyses these | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
things or pays attention to these things must understand that the | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
threat has been there for a very long time and will take a long time | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
to be brought to a proper level. the renewed terrorist haven in this | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
region? It has been there for a while. There is a big question | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
being asked that the senior military level, are we able to put | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
troops on the ground anywhere, because of the gamble the | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
Government has taken to reduce the size of the army? We are going to | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
take a look at Prince Harry and the interview he made at the end of his | :44:20. | :44:27. | |
current tour with the army in That is what we revolve around, I | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
suppose. If there's people trying to do bad stuff to our eyes, then | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
we'll take them out of the game, I suppose. Should he have been asked | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
that question in the first place? think the question is in pretty | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
poor taste. It is one of those unwritten rules that journalists do | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
not ask that question. It is uncomfortable and difficult, but | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
I'd do have a sneaking admiration for the Prince, and serene in the | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
forthright way in which he has. Let's be clear about it, that is | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
what soldiers are for. Take a life to save a life, should be up and | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
said in that way or just deflected it? He has been an Apache | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
helicopter pilot, he will have been engaged in action, so in terms of | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
the honest way he answered it, yes. He is coming back to this country, | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
but many of the people he served alongside will be made redundant, | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
and that is something the government have got to explain. | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
They cannot even get their message is right today, two different press | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
releases from the MoD this morning. What was your response when you | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
heard Prince Harry admitting that he had killed? People presume that | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
is what happens, but what was your response? If you look at his answer, | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
it is a third person answer, there was no admission or celebration, so | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
why would he? Why are we using this language of admitting and | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
confessing? He is a professional soldier, is a combat officer, it is | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
what he does. It may not be tasteful, we may not like to dwell | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
upon it. You are right, it is part of the job. He was thrown a | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
question, he may not have seen it coming, I thought his answer was | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
honest without saying his personal involvement necessarily lead to | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
what we are assuming it did. would be remarkable if it didn't! | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
It was a dignified response, what to expect from people serving in | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
the military? What about the security threat? We mentioned in | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
last dreadful incident here, what about the current or future | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
security threat? Well, we must be an absolutely no doubt that there | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
is just as strong a threat of Islamist terror and horror in this | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
country from those with an African origin, both north, east and west, | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
as there is with those living on the Pakistan-Afghan border. That | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
threat has not gone away, this will no doubt intensify, it is bound to, | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
and I'm very interested to see that the French have taken domestic | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
measures to secure themselves at home, which as far as I can see, we | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
are not doing at the moment. Gentlemen, thank you very much. | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
Mention the word Europe around Westminster these days, and all | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
anybody talks about his David Cameron's speech, including us, of | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
course! Not so in the rest of Europe. All eyes this week are on | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
France and Germany who today are celebrating 50 years of friendship. | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
On 22nd January 1963, General de Galle and Konrad Adenauer signed | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
the Elysee Treaty in Paris. Both countries are issuing stamps, coins | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
and literary awards to commemorate the historic accord that cemented | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
peaceful co-operation between the former enemies after World War II. | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
This morning the French President, Francois Hollande, met Angela | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
Merkel at the French embassy in Berlin, presumably a neutral | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
location! Later a joint session of the Cabinets both countries is due | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
to take place. 400 French lawmakers will travel to Berlin to join their | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
counterparts for a debate in the Reich stag. The day will wrap up | :48:02. | :48:11. | |
with a concert at the Berlin Philharmonic Hall. Well, we are | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
joined now from Paris by the French political commentator Agnes Poirier, | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
and in the studio we have a comedian with German roots who | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
performs regularly in German, funnily enough! Welcome to both of | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
you. Tell me, why is it in Berlin, the celebrations today? Is that | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
because Angela Merkel is in charge? Probably, I don't know. Why is it | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
in Berlin and not in Paris? I do know, because the 40th anniversary | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
took place in Versailles of all places, and it went so well that | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
they want to do some magnificent things in Berlin! I see, I thought | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
there would be an explanation. When they all meet in the Reichstag, are | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
they all going to be talking German, Agnes Poirier? I think they will be | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
speaking in different languages, and I assume a bit of English, too. | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
Thank goodness for that! Do you love each other, the French and | :49:07. | :49:16. | |
Germans? I have got the complete set of names. I think the Germans | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
love the French much more than the Brits feel is right all decent. I | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
mean, we are stuck in a groove that was established in 1945, and the | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
French and Germans have long since moved on from that. I think a | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
recent survey from the German- French television channel showed | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
that 50% of each nation has lived in the other country, which says a | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
lot. It does, one might say we are really quite different, if you are | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
looking at all the stereotypes from language, food, fashion. What do | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
the French think of the Germans? Well, I mean, it is interesting, | :49:56. | :50:03. | |
because we went from being hereditary enemies to hereditary | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
friends, because in a way we do not have any choice. We have to be | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
friends. I think the fate of Europe is dependent on it. So it is a | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
false relationship, then. No, it is not, but it can be a difficult | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
relationship, we all know this, because it is very much dependent | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
on the personal chemistry between the two heads of state, and usually | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
it takes a few years for them to get along well, especially if they | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
do not belong to the same political family. But in the end, remember | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy, after a few difficult years, they | :50:40. | :50:48. | |
saw each other all the time, and we called it Merkozy. Now Hollande and | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
Michael did not quite liked each other yet, so we will say after the | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
September elections, and presumably they were like each other very | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
soon! I am glad to hear it. Do you agree that Angela Merkel does not | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
have much time for Francois Hollande? It is hard for me to | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
comment about that. As with anybody, a new arrival in an established of | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
this, it is difficult to get your feet under the table. All I know is | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
that in time these relationships to develop, think of me drop and | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
Helmut Kohl holding hands in 1984 in front of the modern it. Two | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
British people, they look like the odd couple, what the hell are you | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
doing there? The comic in me wants to say, it was the first example of | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
openly gay presidential relationship, holding hands, it | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
looks so incongruous. Two people, physically, in terms of their | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
politics, and their outlook, very different, but they came together | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
and made a very strong image. They say, we do not care what others may | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
say, the British may scoff, but this is our statement. I think | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
Francois Hollande and Angela Merkel look quite good together, something | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
to do with being the same height, the same sort of age. They do not | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
look too bad. No, they don't. Perhaps the problem is that | :52:10. | :52:17. | |
Hollande and Angela Merkel bowled starkly opposite positions on how | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
to solve the euro crisis and on economic policies. I think it is | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
going to be quite difficult for them, but in the end, again, France | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
and Germany have no choice but to be friends, so they will get along. | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
Right, you heard it from Agnes Poirier, very firm about that. | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
Where are you going to be for that long awaited speech by David | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
Cameron? Where will you be watching? Probably in front of my | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
computer, working on jokes about it, whatever comes up, and should they | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
be appropriate. We look at this thing with the comedy potential, | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
and the relationship between France and Germany, what strikes me is the | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
funny things that come out of it. For example, in Germany children | :53:00. | :53:08. | |
are encouraged to take French pen pals, but you can imagine how many | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
conversations there have been over the years about how many brothers | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
and sisters you have got. The type of dog and that kind of stuff, that | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
is what we look for. Agnes Poirier, is the whole of France sitting on | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
the edge of its seat waiting with bated breath for that speech | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
tomorrow? No, they don't even know Cameron is making a speech. I mean, | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
I do, and I will be back in London, but a lot of people in France hope, | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
the ones who know, there is going to be a speech, they wish that the | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
British pantomime about Europe stops soon, because it is really | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
getting on their nerves. We do not want to get on your nerves! Agnes | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
Poirier, thank you very much. But why pronounce your name? I speak | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
German as well! When your name is David Cameron, | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
life is rarely easy. First to have got lines of people turning up at | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
your door and you have got to keep everybody happy, whatever their | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
tastes. There are the arguments about in or out, with gherkins, | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
that is, and you have to cater for all appetites, even if they are | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
talking meatballs. Ladled on top of that, you have to make an | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
appearance at Number Ten. We are joined now by David Cameron, who is | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
just on his way back from Downing Street, where he has been handing | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
in a petition to his namesake. Clearly, you're not the David | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
Cameron, Prime Minister, we have noticed that. What are you doing | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
today? Well, today, a group of franchisees, including myself, we | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
have visited Number Ten, and we have dropped off a petition to | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
really try and get a word over to the government that we want to see | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
some vendors on the way that VAT is applied to hot takeaway food. -- | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
Venice. Is this your attempt to regurgitate the pasty tax row? | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
follows on from that. When the government first introduced the new | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
VAT laws in October last year, from the 2012 budget, we actually | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
welcomed that, and it brought some transparency to VAT, and ourselves | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
and our competitors were all going to be treated the same. But when | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
the government made a U-turn and introduced this clause whereby hot | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
savoury Products, pasties and sausage rolls, suddenly would be | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
zero-rated for VAT purposes, it is down to the fact that they are | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
deemed to be cooling down when they are sold, but our toasted | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
sandwiches, which we believe fulfil the same purpose for people buying | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
them, a subject to the standard rate of VAT at 20%. I am sure this | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
bring back happy memories for you, Tim Farron. You're doing is purely | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
for commercial reasons, why should you be exempt from tax when your | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
customers have to pay? Well, we are just after fairness. The fact is | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
that our competitors are able to sell a product that fulfils the | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
same purpose. If you go into one of these big high street bakeries, you | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
can buy a hot product that is exempt from VAT. But if you buy one | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
of our toasted sandwiches, and we are toasting them to provide the | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
customer with a product that has a certain texture, not just hot, but | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
both products are great value, tasty, fulfilling the same purpose. | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
We believe that we should be treated equally. I am sure your | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
name has helped in the campaign! Let's see how much you and David | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
Cameron have in common. David Cameron Prime Minister is going to | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
Davos, what have you got planned? For the rest of this week, I | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
actually work in Dewsbury on a daily basis, so from tomorrow | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
morning I will be back there and I will be making sandwiches on the | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
counter for part of the week. I have got some recruiting to do, | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
working at the Jobcentre. Later in a week, I have got to organise some | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
of our lighting to be converted to an ad to reduce carbon emissions. | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
David Cameron's first job after leaving university was working for | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
the Conservative Research Department. For myself, it was | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
working for Subway, I took a job out of university, I worked as a | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
sandwich artist, I was there for two ears, and eventually I decided | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
to take the plunge and go for my own franchise. Good for you! | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
Quickly, which David Cameron do you prefer? This guy seems very nice! | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
Just time to find out the answer to our quiz, the question was, who | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
recently boasted they used to know David Lloyd George? What is the | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
answer? I would have guessed Baroness Trumpington. Well, here | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
she is in action, you're right. this historic day, we celebrate the | :57:46. | :57:52. | |
150th anniversary of the birth of David Lloyd George. I beg leave to | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
ask the question, in my name of the Order Paper. My Lords, I have to | :57:59. | :58:09. | |
add that my father met Lloyd We have somewhere a photograph of | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
my father was Lloyd George and about 3,000 other people in the | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
picture, but never mind, it is still historic. Is the Minister | :58:18. | :58:28. | |
:58:28. | :58:36. | ||
aware that I not only knew Lloyd Shut up, everybody! That told them, | :58:36. | :58:41. | |
that is what I'm gonna do to my guests! Thank you to all of our | :58:41. | :58:46. |