Browse content similar to 28/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Good afternoon. Welcome to The Daily Politics. It is full steam | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
ahead for the next phase of High Speed 2. David Cameron has taken | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
his Cabinet to Leeds this morning to announce details for the next | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
stage of the project. But are the economic benefits worth the money? | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
Can a new government scheme cut energy bills and improve your home? | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
We speak to the energy minister. Should the goalposts be moved to | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
help women get jobs in the boardroom? And it is this man the | :01:08. | :01:16. | |
next Conservative party leader? -- and is this man? All that coming up. | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
And with us today is the lawyer, businesswoman, broadcaster and | :01:22. | :01:30. | |
football association board member... Let's start with the economy. After | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
last week's news that the economy shrunk by 0.3% in the last three | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
months of 2012, George Osborne hit the Breakfast sofa this morning. He | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
was talking up the benefits of the HS2 rail extension, but he also had | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
this to say about the economy. are absolutely determined to tackle | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
the long-term problems that this country faces. Building high-speed | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
rail, investing in jobs, investing in the north of the country, is | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
part of that engine for growth. no let-up in the cuts and the | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
austerity? No let-up in fixing Britain's problems. Growth is flat, | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
talk of a triple dip recession, inflation is rising - do you think | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
the pace of cuts has choked off demand, as Labour claims? I think | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
it is a very difficult balance to strike. What is interesting about | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
BHS to announcement today is that it is a real emphasis on investment | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
to generate growth. Particularly, the regeneration of those parts of | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
the country, Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester, which we know are | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
experiencing challenging times. So I think that level of investment in | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
infrastructure is important. But I also think that in the area of | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
small businesses, we are an entrepreneurial culture. I work in | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
the creative sector, in media. We see a lot of really interesting | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
small companies, and if they can get access to finance... This is | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
about not getting credit again? Party, and partly about the culture, | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
risk-taking, but it is risks not based on where we were before, on | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
some really complicated innovative, it is risk based on backing people | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
and producing things. We need to get back to making stuff, which is | :03:18. | :03:26. | |
what we used to do. Do you have confidence in John Osborne's plans? | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
-- in George Osborne's plans? the moment we are waiting to feel | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
that growth come back into the economy. To that extent, the jury | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
is still out. But I think it is fair to say, there is no silver | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
bullet, no magic solution. We have become the guinea pigs, everybody | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
is looking at what we are doing. We have done massive amounts in terms | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
of quantitative easing... That has kept interest rates down. Yes, and | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
we have had announcements by the forthcoming new governor of the | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
Bank of England, which might start to make changes. It has been | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
terrible for savings, of course. But at the moment, we would so the | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
jury is out. You were chief executive of Lambeth council in the | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
mid-1990s. Let's take you back there - is it fair for some | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
councils to be booking up council taxes in these difficult times? | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
pink for local authorities who are trying to maintain services, | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
whether that could be elderly, care, maintaining streets, supporting | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
their own regeneration, they have to find ways of bringing tax | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
revenues into their local authorities. What they need to | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
demonstrate is that they are investing effectively, if those | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
council tax rises are to be justified. The Prime Minister has | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
described it as an engine for growth, and this afternoon, the | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
Transport Secretary will stand up in the House of Commons to unveil | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
the second phase of the Government's plan to drive a new | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
high-speed rail line through the north of England, and eventually to | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
Scotland. The Government has already announced the first phase, | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
connecting London to Birmingham, a route not without controversy, | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
especially where it passes through the Chilterns. Today, ministers | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
will outline the second phase, taking it on to Sheffield and Leeds | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
in the east, and on towards Manchester in the north-west. | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
Journey times from London to Manchester will be reduced by an | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
hour to 68 minutes. Journey times from Leeds to London will be | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
reduced to 82 minutes, from more than two hours. It will cost more | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
than �33 billion. It will be opened by 2033. We asked to speak to a | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Transport Minister, but no-one was available. But I am joined now bike | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
a Conservative Impey, and by Labour's Shadow Transport Secretary, | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
Maria Eagle. Can we afford this? Yes, it is a very considerable | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
period of time. It increases the connectivity of the system. There | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
will also be benefits for the north of the country. It is something we | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
cannot afford not to do. The West Coast Main Line will be full. We | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
cannot keep upgrading. We need new railway lines, and this is a good | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
way to start. We cannot afford not to do this? Constituencies like | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
mine will be taking all of the pain and getting no gain. We will have | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
no station in my constituency, and in fact, we will have the pleasure | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
of driving half-an-hour north to get to London half an hour faster. | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
So, there is nothing in it for us. Added to that, the roots go through | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
a site for private sector investment, which would create up | :06:52. | :07:00. | |
to 7,000 new jobs. It has thrown those plans into mayhem. You have | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
obviously got to defend your constituents, but are you against | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
the project in principle? Do you accept the idea that this is about | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
investing for growth, that capacity limitations will mean that these | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
roots are needed, and that it will be better join up the north and | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
south? I can agree that we need to do that, but I think the route has | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
been so poorly thought-out. I have spoken to East Midlands Airport, | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
where it is that there is going to be a tunnel underneath the airport. | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
That is an employment hub of 10,000 private sector job, and they have | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
not even been consulted. It smacks of incompetence. And you have got | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
the same civil service who delivered as the bomba DA fiasco | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
and Wayne -- and the West Coast Main Line franchise disaster, so I | :07:45. | :07:55. | |
:07:55. | :08:01. | ||
think this is totally badly thought out. -- the Bombardier fiasco. | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
There is a consultation which is about to start, to look carefully | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
at these issues, and I am particularly concerned about the | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
location of some of the stations that will be needing. And also, the | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
fact that they appear to have abandoned the spur to Heathrow. I | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
think connectivity to the main hub airport would actually be one of | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
the most important things, so I am a bit concerned about that. So if | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
you want to get into office, you want to redraw the route, and | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
change it quite substantially, connect it to Heathrow, I mean, | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
that will mean even more delay. Well, we have to see how far we get. | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
There will be a bill published later this year, and once that has | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
gone through Parliament, that will fix the route. We want to be | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
constructive, we want to see this done, but that is not to say we | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
will not be raising concerns as we look in more detail at the | :08:47. | :08:55. | |
proposals. Listening to Andrew talking about, questioning, the | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
economic benefits - are you sure that there will be that kind of | :08:58. | :09:08. | |
:09:08. | :09:09. | ||
engine for growth? I think I can only speak for my experience, in | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
relation to CrossRail, going across London, and we have already | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
generated around 7,000 jobs, tens of thousands of jobs in the supply | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
chain. In terms of regenerating parts of London, and indeed East | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
Kent, we are at the beginning of that journey, but certainly, | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
everything is telling us that you - - if you can create those catalysts, | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
you can begin to influence the economy is around those hubs. I | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
think the critical point about a just to is about the North-South | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
question. As Andrew said, the real challenge is to make sure that we | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
get the Connection's right. All the benefits can be lost if you end up | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
having to travel for half an hour to get to a mainline station, which | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
is where you have just come from. So, the question about where the | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
questions will be, and this really connect with CrossRail and Heathrow | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
as well. That's what really needs to be hammered out. What are you | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
going to do about that, we'll be fighting very hard to try to get | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
stations changed, is there any chance of that happening? I will be | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
fighting hard to get the route change, quite honestly. It should | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
have gone closer to Derby, Derby tell wanted that station, and they | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
have got the infrastructure for it. Have you got a campaign together | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
for this? I think it will gather support quite rapidly. There will | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
be various campaigns opposing either of the spurs. That is how | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
things will pan out in parliament. I would like to hear what Patrick | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
McLoughlin has got to say this afternoon. I was particularly | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
annoyed when he said that some people would be a little upset over | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
the route, when it is announced - that is the kind of comment which | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
you can only make when you are the MP of a constituency which will be | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
completely unaffected couple have you got any chance of achieving | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
anything? At the end of the day, it is not starting until 2026, until | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
the London to Birmingham route is completed, which is three general | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
elections away. However, the fear about the plight and the anxiety | :11:11. | :11:20. | |
:11:21. | :11:22. | ||
will start today. Will you vote against the legislation? A believe | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
I will, yes. One of our viewers has tweeted us, if this is so good for | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
jobs, how come Spain has the highest unemployment in the EU? | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
There are many factors involved in that. But the important point for | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
us is that our railway system is creaking. Passenger numbers are | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
going up and up, lost an system is full. We do need new railway lines. | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
I think we ought to be getting on with this faster. When could | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
restart, feasibly? Well, you do have to put the legislation through, | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
to get the planning consent. But the current government are planning | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
two bills, for both phases, but I think we should have one bill. You | :12:03. | :12:10. | |
could then start building from the north as well as from the south. I | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
think our great northern cities need assurances about this. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
mentioned that you have worked with CrossRail, and if anything has | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
taken for ever to actually get started, it was CrossRail. Yes, it | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
took something like 20-odd years. And they do think that is the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
challenge, that on one level, we want to make sure that there is | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
effective consultation, and on another level, we have to, I think, | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
get these turntables down. The reason we need the investment is | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
for all of those reasons we have spoken about today. In 20 years' | :12:44. | :12:54. | |
:12:54. | :12:54. | ||
time, who knows what will have happened? So, I think, as has been | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
said, if we could have one built, that at least would begin to bring | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
down that timetable. It is a bit embarrassing, in a country that | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
invented the railways, we still have journey times similar to the | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
Victorians, when the rest of Europe have bullet trains... We have | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
announced investment in the electrification of the East | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
Midlands Main Line, which is starting next year. Actually I have | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
not got a passenger railway station in my constituency. We have asked | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
the Government to reopen the Ivanhoe Line, to connect up to | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
Leicester, but I was told there was no money left. And yet there is �32 | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
billion to spend on a just to. Thank you very much all of you. Now, | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
one of the finest Westminster traditions came up in the Sunday | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
papers yesterday, a backbench plot against the Prime Minister. | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
According to some reports, a group of Conservative backbenchers have | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
been discussing propelling one of their number to the party | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
leadership if the Conservatives failed to get a majority at the | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
next election. So, who is the Knight in shining armour? It is the | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
MP for Windsor, not a household name, yet. After he saw the | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
newspapers yesterday, he was quick to deny any involvement in a plot. | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
Were you surprised to read the newspapers this morning? I choked | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
on my cereal, as did the rest of the family. Let me say, I will | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
never stand against David Cameron. I a 100% supportive of him. I am | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
working with many colleagues to make sure that they give the | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
Conservatives -- the Conservatives the best chance of winning of a | :14:30. | :14:38. | |
general election and European elections. Well, Tim Montgomerie | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
joins us now - did you choke on your cereal? Well, it was certainly | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
a bit of a surprise, in a week when things have gone so well for us. We | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
have had one of our best weeks in a long time. For these rumours to | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
appear at this time about David Cameron's leadership, it is | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
complete nonsense. But it is not the first time, is it? There has | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
been speculation about David Cameron's leadership, as there is | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
in every Parliament, about every leader and Prime Minister. But it | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
was not a total shock, was it? think last summer, David Cameron's | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
leadership was going in the wrong direction. The boundary review had | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
collapsed, there was all of the media about the Olympics, the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
coalition was in a fraught state of mind. Since then, we had a very | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
effective speech from David Cameron at the party conference, jutting | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
out his policies. You have had a reshuffle, seeing people like Chris | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
Grayling coming on board, a more balanced team. Because of fears of | :15:42. | :15:52. | |
:15:52. | :15:58. | ||
They knew something was going wrong. Linton Cosby is the campaign | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
manager. David Cameron has solidified his leadership in the | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
last six months. There will always be 40 or 50 irreconcilable MPs who | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
don't like him. But things are going better for him than for some | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
time. That's a rump isn't it. 40 or 50 monies who can never be reck | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
sield is still a danger, particularly on issues like Europe, | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
and there are some in your party who won't be happy unless Britain | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
pulls out of the EU. There are those who don't like the coalition. | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
They fear that the Tories may not get a majority at next election. So | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
you could say they are thinking ahead. I think there are probably | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
nearly every Conservative and Labour MP thinks in the back of | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
their mind - perhaps I could be leader. There are quite a few who | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
talk to friends About whether they would support them in the case of a | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
vacancy. There is no vacancy. Talk of changing the leadership stkracts | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
us from what we need to do. We're united on the European issue. We | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
need to focus on the bread and butter issues of tax and the Health | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
Service and crime to ensure we can win a majority. You've seen plenty | :17:16. | :17:24. | |
of Prime Ministers and parliaments going by, what was your reaction | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
sno --? I too were shocked. Some of our colleagues in the media were | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
tired writing about Europe and the Obama effect. On one level, how | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
fantastic that we could have a black MP at least put out there as | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
potential leadership candidate. That shows how we've moved in | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
politics. That's something to be celebrated. I suspect that some of | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
the people who are no longer in Cabinet might be feeling | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
disgruntled. It's halfway through a term. We often get these | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
conversations around leadership. I would suspect that, at the moment, | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
Cameron is pretty well secure. The Europe speech, particularly, | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
consolidated his position within those parts of the party. The last | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
four or five opinion polls we've seen Labour's lead fall below 10%. | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
At this stage of the Parliament that's a very poor showing. One of | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
them still put them 13 points ahead. Five of them were below 10%. If | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
there are questions about any leader it should be directed to the | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
red corner. Does David Cameron feel secure? I think he must do at the | :18:29. | :18:36. | |
moment. Do you hear that?, No I have no reason to hear that. He | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
does feel secure. There are issues, gay marriage is one of those things. | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
Is there are -- he needs to work better at party management. A lot | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
of people don't feel loved, that their views are heard in the party. | :18:48. | :18:55. | |
He cannot afford to be complacent. But he is scier. This is the issue. | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
-- He is secure. This is the issue. Is this why a backbencher name has | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
been put forward. He had to deny it, Adam Afriyie, do you think that is | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
a worry that there are quite a few backbench MPs who feel they should | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
have been ministers, who feel there is a disconnect between Cabinet and | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
ministers and the Parliamentary party? Cameron has two coalitions. | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
He has a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, which we talk a lot | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
about. But he also has a coalition with his own party. The party is a | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
broad beast. It has - Sure, but has he lost that connection? He still | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
needs to work a lot harder, not just to keep Nick Clegg happy but | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
to keep backbenchers happy. This is the generation who cut their | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
political teeth under Margaret Thatcher. This is have Thatcherite | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
views. Giving them hope that this isn't the best it's going to be, | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
that at the next election, there will be more of a traditional | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
message, that's what he has to achieve. Thank you very much. | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
Smashing through the glass ceiling, it's what women who get to the top | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
in male TV dominated professions are described as having done. What | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
do women need to do to compete in a man's world. Susana Mendonsa has | :20:15. | :20:25. | |
:20:25. | :20:27. | ||
Football and politics, they're both male-dominated areas where women | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
try to level the playing field. This woman has done a bit of both. | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
She used to play football and now combines working at this youth club | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
in Tower Hamlets with being a Labour politician in Essex. She | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
says to succeed in a man's world, women need confidence. There have | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
been so many times over the last 20 years, and I've been on the pitch, | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
all men, or even a football tournament and it's all men. I have | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
to believe that I have enough ability to play in that tournament. | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
Does that make sense? In some ways that seems like a small thing and | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
you take it into politics and you walk into Westminster, fairly male- | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
dominated and you have to believe you have a contribution to bring. | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
While the number of women in football and politics is growing | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
there are still 13 men for every woman taking part in football. In | :21:17. | :21:25. | |
politics, around one in five MPs is a woman. Last year, just 15% of | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
board directors on the FTSE 100 companies were women. Compared with | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
12.5% in 2010. So the number of women getting to the top of | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
financial firms has increased but it's not happening quickly enough | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
according to this former market analyst, who's worked for the | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
lights of BGC and Goldman Sachs. There has been very, very little | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
improvement. Women are still massively under represented. I | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
think we have gots to the stage now where quotas are necessary, where | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
that force has to happen. In ten years, when we have lots of women | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
running the world, we don't need quotas any more. The Prime Minister | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
has made clear he would prefer to avoid quotas and he's been | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
resisting calls from Brussels for a 40% female quota. There are women | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
who'd agree with the know-quota approach. When you're talking about | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
quotas, positive discrimination, what you're really talking about is | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
tokenism. That dints women's self- confidence. It stokes male | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
resentment. It creates a culture where suspicion is the norm. That | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
is bad for everybody concerned. this Labour Parliamentary candidate, | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
who was selected on an all-women short list in Harlow say quotas are | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
needed. If you want to address any kind of imbalance, you have to do | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
it in a purposeful way. You can't just give it good words and dream | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
about it and one day think, a few years down-the-line, it will change. | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
That's not how change happens. Things have been changing. Women | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
have been rising through the ranks. So do they need a leg up to speed | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
up the process or should they just be playing men at their own game | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
I'm joined now by Mike Buchanan from the Campaign for Merit in | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
Business. Before I come to you, can I ask you first, Heather Rabbatts, | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
what's it like being the only female director at FA? Well, I | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
think it's interesting. I am also the only female director on some of | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
the other boards I sit on. We all know that football has a particular | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
representation in terms of whether it has the most modern outlook to | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
women, but the fact that I am on the board of the FA is a sign that | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
times are changing. Do you think they are? Is it tough? How are you | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
treated? It's always a mix. There are people who are incredibly | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
welcoming. Others are somewhat suspicious. I think that's true of | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
most boardroom that's women go into whether they are in football or a | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
top 100plc. There's always a challenge. I think women invariably | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
have to work often twice as hard to find that way of being accepted, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
because they don't go in with being given the benefit of the doubt. I | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
think actually to have quotas to wake it worse. You would have a | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
sticker on your head saying "I'm only here because I'm part of the | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
quota." How do you change? By some of the work that's being done, | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
constant exultation, about putting companies on notice, about chairman | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
being asked serious questions at their shareholders about why there | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
are no women on their boards. As we were talking earlier, at times, | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
maybe the threat of quotas, the threat of change might get | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
everybody to focus about what they need to do. Do you agree we need | :24:46. | :24:54. | |
more women on boards? No, I don't. Why? We have five studies which | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
show that when you increase the number on women on boards, | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
financial performance declines. There is not one single study | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
worldwide which shows... What about women matter 2010, a report by | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
management consultants that suggest that companies with gender balance | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
boardrooms are 56% more profitable? We keep hearing this, if you look | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
at the reports you'll find that they report in correlation. | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
have they done these reports when there rnts that many boards with | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
women on them? There's plenty of them. In Norway there was a huge | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
expansion of the number of women on corporate boards. The results were | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
corporate decline. The reason that men dominate the boardroom, the | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
reasons are well understood. The most important single reason is, | :25:41. | :25:48. | |
was something that was explained by a renowned sociologist in 2000. Her | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
research showed that while four in seven men are work centred, only | :25:52. | :25:59. | |
one in seven women are. You would expect an 80/20 split on boards on | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
that alone. I'm not aware of some of the surveys that have just been | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
mentioned. I always find it quite interesting where we look at board | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
effectiveness and we were talking about the economy and why we've got | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
into some of the mess, many people would say it was about how banks | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
are governed. We look at process with failing companies. We look at | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
lack of regulation. We don't necessarily look at the fact that | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
they were fundamentally male boards. I don't know about that survey. I'm | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
sceptical about it. What about women not being work centred | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
enough? I think that as you look at the indices, women are | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
participating more in the economy, they're working longer, certainly | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
women might not be work centred through certain times of their | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
career, when they're having young families, but when I talk to women | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
across all sectors one of the things they constantly come back to | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
is A, they want to come back to work, most need to stay in work. So | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
I think all of those indices are changing. Also it's about age and | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
stage. Most non-execs are in their 50s and 0s when they have had | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
experience. Having experience and wisdom is important. You'll find | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
that many women are wanting to be back in the labour market during | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
those years. What about, there are two points there. You could say | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
maybe a bit crudely that it was men that broke it, the banking system, | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
that those boards were male- dominated and that they took too | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
many risks and a mix, having women perhaps as a generality are more | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
risk averse, add a different dimension would be healthy and | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
profitable. It's a theory, but it's a self-serving theory. But it was | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
borne out. It's a bit like your surveys, self-serving to your | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
perspective to argue that women can't get on board, I don't know | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
what experience they need to have - There are no surveys that say | :28:04. | :28:14. | |
performance improves. There's a Deutsche bank where they | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
voluntarily put more women on the boards. The result was more risky | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
behaviour. We can argue about surveys one way or the other, but | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
don't you feel it's right more women should be on boards? 50% of | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
the population are female, why shouldn't there be more women if | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
they want to have a role on boards, why shouldn't they be there? | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
don't think any men feel that just because they want to be on a board | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
there's some sort of efpb titlement. Some would argue they do. Veryify l | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
few. We come back to the point that the number of qualified men for | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
mangor corporate boards hugely outnumbers the number of qualified | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
women. The last 45 or 25 FTSE 100 have been non-executives. | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
reason that boards have stayed male is because they want similar people | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
to themselves on the boards. Again the reason they do that is that the | :29:06. | :29:13. | |
pool of men is hugely deeper than the pool of women. What do you say | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
Tha'it, that point doesn't stand up? I think there's been all sorts | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
of research that says in of the past -- in the past that people | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
tend to recruit in their own image. When we look at issues of | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
discrimination, those points have been made. What I would like to | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
stress is that there's 50% of the population are women. There are | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
huge numbers of talented women out there. I think increasingly boards | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
are wanting to have people with diverse voices and diverse | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
experiences. Having people who've just come up through one particular | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
part of the industry to then become a non-exec doesn't necessarily give | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
you the breadth of outlook you want to have. If you start to look at | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
the criteria about effective non- execs and think about what the | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
talent pool you want to look at, you will start to find more women | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
coming onto boards. We always have 50% of the population is women, why | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
aren't 50% of the directors women? No-one's arguing for 50%. But it's | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
just 15%. I don't see anyone xam paining for 50% of lorry drivers to | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
be women. What do you say to that? If women want to be lorry drivers, | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
they will apply and no doubt, they will be put up with some of the | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
challenges of getting into lorry driving. What we're talking about | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
here is power. Actually, most people give up power with great | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
difficulty. This is about ensuring that power, whether it's around | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
effective decision making ash our companies, has the best talent. My | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
belief is that when I meet many women they say we would really like | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
to become a non-exec. We don't have the confidence, we don't know how | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
to do. It I don't find the same comments that I get from some of my | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
male colleagues. Who do feel, the next thing is becoming a non-exec. | :30:59. | :31:09. | |
:31:09. | :31:14. | ||
We need to support women to find The next crunch day for the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
coalition comes on Tuesday, when MPs will vote on delaying boundary | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
changes until 2018. Could this be the first time David Cameron and | :31:23. | :31:30. | |
declared end up on the other side - - on opposite sides of the vote? -- | :31:30. | :31:40. | |
:31:40. | :31:54. | ||
We can speak now at to James Lyons from the Daily Mirror, and the | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
Sun's Emily Ashton. Emily Ashton first of all, two big issues for | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
the coalition this week, Europe and boundaries - initial reaction, | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
overwhelming support from backbenchers, but how long can that | :32:07. | :32:15. | |
unity last? We cannot hear you just at the moment. Now, attic we can. | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
Sorry, start again, how long do you think Tory unity will last? Well, | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
David Cameron has had one of the best weeks of his premiership. He | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
has even impressed some European leaders. It is funny because | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
tomorrow's vote is not going to be particularly helpful to that unity. | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
Suddenly, a lot of Tories will be a bit cross and frustrated that they | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
cannot get his decision on the boundaries through. Remember, this | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
vote is very important to the Conservative Party. The next | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
election will depend crucially on them getting those extra 20 seats, | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
and experts think changing the boundaries will help them get that. | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
This has put David -- Ed Miliband into a very difficult position. He | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
doesn't to rule out a referendum, but what is the official line now? | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
I think it is that they do not want a referendum, but that is the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
answer just a now, as you say. They are trying to keep their options | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
open. They will probably get forced into accepting a referendum at some | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
point. A lot of people in the party would like to get ahead of the game | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
by essentially saying that before David Cameron had come out in | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
favour of one, which means that Ed Miliband is now on the back foot, | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
but his position is not as bad as some people would like to pretend. | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
Over the weekend we have seen David Cameron coming under pressure on | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
Europe again, despite at speech last week, which was very well | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
received. We have seen people like Boris Johnson coming out and saying, | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
yes, I would be prepared to campaign to take us out of the EU. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
That is not something we have heard from David Cameron, but it is | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
something his troops will be demanding in the weeks ahead. | :33:49. | :33:58. | |
terms of demands, Emily, are those demands going to start very quickly | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
from the Tory MPs who want to repatriate powers? That is the | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
problem. This referendum is five years down the track. I cannot see | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
many Tory Euro-sceptic backbenchers saying, OK, we will just wait for | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
that. He is going to face increasing demands for all kinds of | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
powers to come back, crime, Justice, all kinds of things, so this issue | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
is not going to go away. Let's talk about boundaries. Tomorrow night, | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
Lib Dem MPs will vote to postpone the review of parliamentary | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
boundaries until after the next election, so what will that do to | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
the harmony of the coalition? is a very important moment in the | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
life of the coalition government. We are seeing for the first time, | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
or we will see, Lib Dem ministers trying to defeat Tory plans. That's | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
if everything goes to plan. In fact, I think it will be tighter than | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
some people are expecting. I suspect the Tories have got some | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
tricks up their sleeve to try to get it through, but very few of | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
them seriously think they will win. What this does to the collision | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
afterwards, it is going to be painful. Essentially you have got | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
David Cameron at the moment fighting on two front. Today, the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
whips are out there trying to minimise a Tory rebellion by MPs | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
who will face their seats going, which will be hugely embarrassing | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
to David Cameron. The whips are desperately trying to minimise that, | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
but tomorrow, the real test, that will be when he tries to gather | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
together the backbenchers who maybe still feeling the warm glow from | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
his Europe speech, to explain to them why they will probably be | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
losing the next election. Tomorrow evening could be the day that David | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
Cameron loses the 2015 election. you see it in those terms, Emily? | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
Yes, it is quite crucial to David Cameron. You can see that there are | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
still mutterings about his leadership. The 2015 Election does | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
depend on anything he can do to help himself to win that, which | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
includes these 20 extra seats. So, he desperately wants to get this | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
through. If this vote does not go the right way for him tomorrow, he | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
needs to leave it, because these Boundary Commission review has been | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
going on and on, and it has been costing millions of pounds. | :36:07. | :36:16. | |
:36:17. | :36:17. | ||
Taxpayers want to say, OK, enough is enough. Because I have been | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
joined by the Conservative MP Andrea Leadsom and my other guests | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
for the rest of the show... Starting with you, Dan Rogerson, | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
would you be happy to go into coalition with the Conservatives, | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
promising tamarin in a referendum? I would be happy to go into | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
coalition with either of the party's comedy spending on how they | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
frame their policies at the general election. That is what we are doing | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
at the moment. We have got some of these constitutional reform issues | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
to take into account. We will do anything to deliver what we said we | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
wanted to do.. But you are not in favour of this referendum. I am in | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
politics to get things done, not just to talk about things. Having | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
said that, we are not likely to be in a position of having a majority, | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
so if we are in that kind of situation, we will have to work | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
with another party again. Europe is a key issue for the | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
Liberal Democrats, and Nick Clegg has said this referendum would | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
damage the economic stability of the country. Why would you go into | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
coalition with them? Because it is not the only issue. That is the | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
crucial thing. If I speak to my constituents, there are some for | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
whom the European issues are what keeps them interested in politics, | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
but they're a small bunch of people, the vast majority are interested in | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
the economy, the environment and things like that. The gamble would | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
be that Britain comes out, because it would be up to the people, and | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
you would be the government, a Liberal Democrat government which | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
presided over that? I think people are entitled to decide, but | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
artificially trying to bring it to a head would be the wrong thing to | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
do. It should be at a time when there is a genuine treaty | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
negotiation on a particular issue. Your party is not going to be | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
setting out which powers it intends to bring back to this country until | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
after the next election, are you happy about that? Actually, | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
negotiations are going on the whole time. There are issues like the one | :38:22. | :38:30. | |
over banking union, like the use of the veto on financial services... | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
But we heard from David Lidington over the weekend, any powers would | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
not start until the manifesto is drawn up, so you can see which | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
powers they want to repatriate, and those negotiations will not start | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
until at least two years down the line. I am sorry, but I do not | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
agree. There are already positions being taken by the Government of | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
some of these issues. As you know, the government is minded to opt out | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
of the justice and home affairs 130 rules which we have an opt-out from. | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
That has to be exercised by the middle of 2014. So, there are | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
certain measures which the Government is trying to do, for | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
example, making some sense of the Common Fisheries Policy. But | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
because of the timescale, those issues will needed -- will need to | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
be sorted out before 2015. If these powers are not repatriated, Will | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
you be voting no in any referendum? There may well be some powers which | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
we were not calling for. It may be that there were some treaty changes | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
which we were not calling for, and some that we poor. It will be very | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
important that each individual.... For you, personally, we you vote | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
no? I could countenance it, but I think Britain would be better off | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
staying in the EU. Which member states of the EU are pushing for | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
reform, and threatening exit if they do not get what they want? | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
am not aware that any other EU number is threatening exit, but nor | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
is Britain. We are talking about a referendum. Other member states | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
have had referendums. Well, they are using the threat of an exit. | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
do not think that is white. We are not threatening to leave. What we | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
are saying is, we will renegotiate, but having done that, the people of | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
Britain will get the opportunity to say whether they want to be in on | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
the terms of the negotiation or whether they want to leave. At the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
negotiating table, everybody will be aware that that is the | :40:24. | :40:30. | |
possibility. What I'm saying is, no other member states are pushing for | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
that, are they? They do not seem to be at the moment. Was it wise of Ed | :40:36. | :40:45. | |
Miliband to seemingly rule out an in out referendum? What he actually | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
ruled out was a referendum now. Well he did actually seem to say, | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
no referendum. So you understand it that there is a chance of a | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
referendum? I do not see that it is on the table particularly. But as | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
we have just seen from consular's and so, we have got the issue of an | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
in out referendum on the table from the Tories, without any idea of | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
what it is that we are advocating even on the basis of. Andrea | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
Leadsom cannot even answer whether she would vote yes or No 1 that | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
referendum, and the same goes for the rest of the Tory party. So, | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
this has created huge uncertainty about our ongoing membership of the | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
EU. Businesses up and down this country, in quite an unprecedented | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
step, have been coming out and saying that this is really damaging | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
for investment in the economy. And just at the time when the Tory | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
party should be focusing 100% on getting the economy moving.. What | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
do you say to that argument about instability? Both the Liberal | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
Democrats and Labour have said this... That is such a | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
misrepresentation of the situation. Over the last few years there has | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
been increasing, massive uncertainty, because of the lack of | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
democratic accountability in the European Union. The eurozone | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
financial crisis, and all of these other things, have meant that the | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
eurozone is changing. They have to move towards greater fiscal | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
integration, which means... What we have seen happening in Europe, as | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
you have just described, is a more flexible Europe, where, depending | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
on your own national interests, you either opt in or opt out of various | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
things. So, some countries have opted into the financial | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
transaction tax, but Britain has not. We obviously will not be part | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
of the conversations about the eurozone and what action needs to | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
be taken there, because we are not in the euro. So, this is what | :42:45. | :42:54. | |
Europe is already doing. The key point is that the eurozone is | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
changing. They have to move closer to a country called Europe. To | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
simply maintain the status quo is not a realistic option. Do you | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
think David Cameron would have made that speech without awe of the | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
pressure from your backbenchers? Yes, I think that what the Prime | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
Minister has done Tiffney, he has taken his time to consider where he | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
thinks the EU is going. He has been very focused on they go need for | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
greater integration in the area of currency, but at the same time, for | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
Britain to lead them towards greater democratic accountability | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
and a new settlement for Britain. Some key questions which we have | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
raised there. Fisheries and agriculture, they do be | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
renegotiated anyway. That is nothing to do with his repatriation. | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
That is what all governments in Europe are involved in. What I am | :43:47. | :43:56. | |
confused about, with regard to the Prime Minister, on this, is what | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
exactly might be negotiated. I tried to amend the bill when it was | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
going through. I am in favour of the principle of reducing the | :44:05. | :44:13. | |
number of MPs. You are going to vote against it? The issue for me | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
is, at the time when we announced an increasing number of unelected | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
politicians in the House of Lords, we are being asked to vote for | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
cutting the number of elected politicians. That is not what I got | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
into the coalition to do. As the Conservative Party were not able to | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
deliver on getting rid of some of the unelected politicians, it would | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
be absolutely wrong to cut down on the democratically elected element. | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
This would be the wrong time to do that. Briefly, how angry with you | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
and your colleagues be over this? Well, it is a great tragedy that | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
obviously, it makes sense for there to be regularisation of the number | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
of voters in each constituency.... And it will not deliver you as | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
easily a victory? Well, what we are looking for is a level playing | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
field. We are not looking for favouritism towards the | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
Conservatives, we are looking for equalisation of the number of | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
voters in seats and a reduction in the number of MPs. That is in | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
everybody's interest in the country. It is quite astonishing that | :45:12. | :45:22. | |
neither Labour nor the Lib Dems We all know what high Energy Bills | :45:22. | :45:31. | |
are like. The average annual bill is now �1400. There's a scheme | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
launching today that ministers say will provide savings. One minister | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
has been quoted as saying - is this transformational? Yes, is this the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
biggest home improvement programme since the Second World War? Yes. | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
You're dying to know who it is. Wait no longer, it's Greg Barker, | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
the Energy and Climate Change Minister. Welcome. What a great | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
introduction. Do you still stand by that? Absolutely. Why? Is it, | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
nothing like this has been tried before. We have a huge challenge. | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
This isn't going to be an overnight flash in the pan. We're talking | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
about a framework to see us through into the 2020s. This isn't a stop- | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
go programme. The framework will bring unprecedented choice and | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
empoirplt to consumers who want to improve their homes. How many | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
people have signed up to the Green Deal? It only went live this | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
morning. It's a bitterlyy to write oaf a 20-year programme about three | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
hours in. I'm not writing it off. I just asked how many people have | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
signed up. I have been told that people have starleted writing plans | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
this morning, but it went live today. So the story that only five | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
people signed up and there was a computer glitch wasn't true. That | :46:49. | :46:56. | |
was to do with assessments and that is out of date. Hundreds, maybe | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
thousands have booked assessments in anticipation of being able to | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
write a Green Deal plan this morning. Give it time. We're not | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
claiming overnight success. This isn't a big rush. We're going to | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
build over the coming months and years to achieve that objective. | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
What people will want to know and the reason they'll sign up is | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
they'll want savings in Energy Bills. How can you guarantee | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
savings from this scheme? We can't guarantee savings because if | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
somebody decides to buy a series of plasma TVs or to suddenly put up | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
their central heating to 24, rather than 22, of course their bill is | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
going to go up. What we can do is give sensible, conservative | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
estimates on a like for like basis on what their energy costs have | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
been and what they are likely to be if they take these measures. That's | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
the Green Deal golden rule. Under that basis, projected savings | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
should always be greater than the finance costs. Even after you've | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
put these measures in, which can be a range of things, from double | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
glazing, new lighting, a new front door, even, a boiler, heating | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
system, a whole range of things that people actually want and are | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
going to improve their home that actually they should still be | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
better off and they'll be insulated not only against the cold but | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
against future rises in bills as well. It's a high interest rate at | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
7%, when you think of interest rates at the moment. There's a big | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
gap between 0.5% and 7% which will make people think those savings are | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
just not going to be achievable. Firstly that interest rate is fixed | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
for 20 years. Secondly, it's a lot cheaper than any comparable finance | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
on the High Street. If you try and finance a kitchen or a conservatory | :48:43. | :48:51. | |
or a bathroom, compare that to the finance you'll be available through | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
store cards, personal loans or an APR sometimes of 20% on some of | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
these schemes. Actually for the vast majority of people that offers | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
a really good deal for long-term, fair finance. OK. Greg Barker, | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
thank you very much. How optimistic are you that millions will take up | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
this deal? As we've heard from the minister, probably not today. In | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
the long-term, absolutely. I've had constituents of mine who have had | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
these pre-consultation things. We've ht people going round talking | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
to people on the doorstep and they're keen to get started. The | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
key thing is people feel a benefit in terms of energy savings, but | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
also, will know that this money is going as far as it can. It would be | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
great if the Government has huge amounts of cash, but it doesn't. Ip | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
stead of piling in Government money, it's a way tone courage people to | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
do it themselves. As a country there's a carbon saving as well. | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
This is a market-based framework. The Government is keen to see this | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
market work. Is leaving it to the market the best way to improve | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
energy efficiencyy in homes? As I say, we haven't got the money in | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
this country to invest huge amounts of money needed to insulate every | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
home. So there has to be some market solution. The Government can | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
frame that so it works for the consumer and encourages creating | :50:11. | :50:18. | |
jobs as well? Will be -- will you be signing up? Yes, I'd love to. I | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
was thinking over the weekend, I would be quite interested in doing | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
it. What's putting you off? Well, because I live in a very old, stone | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
house with very thick stone walls and we did actually when we moved | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
into it, think about the fact that it would be drafty. It has | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
technical problems. We put some solar panels on the roof and so we | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
do in the summer get completely free hot water and no fume costs at | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
all. It's very attractive -- fuel costs at all. It's very attractive. | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
You should look at it. Was your response to the idea? I think it's | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
a perfectly laudable objective, but it's -- as with lots of other | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
things, the devil is in the detail. You're right to raise the point | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
about interest rates. The minister is wrong. There High Street | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
interest rates for personal loans at the moment are comparable to | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
this rate. You've seen a lot of consumer groups over the last few | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
weeks and this morning saying there are a number of hidden costs here, | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
which when you look into it, will put people off. The assessments | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
that you're talking about, costing between �100 and �150. You only get | :51:26. | :51:34. | |
that money back if you then take up the offer of the - from the company. | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
There's worries about koibs entering the marketplace. I worry | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
about older constituents who might be mis-sold things on the doorstep | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
and on the phone. We need greater protection for the consumer. We | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
need to look at the interest rate again. The outlay will put off | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
poorer households, I suggest, and also, they may not get those | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
savings for a while. I cannot see how many poorer households will be | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
attracted to this idea and they're the ones, we all are, keen to cut | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
costs? That's the purpose of the planning process. They have to be | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
able to demonstrate that they will save money and save energy too. It | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
real sli getting that golden rule right. That's what the planning | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
process should do. We need to get the message across that we should | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
look at different companies to ensure they have the best deal | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
possible. Believe it or not, we are in the middle of an election | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
campaign in Westminster. Haven't you heard? Sadly, the electorate | :52:26. | :52:34. | |
for this one is limited. In fact it's restricted to hereditary peers. | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
Giles has donned his iep -- finest tweed to tell you more. | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
There you are. Yes, pay attention chaps, oh, | :52:44. | :52:50. | |
chappesss in this new world, a quick word about hereditary peers. | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
1999 passing of the lourdz act, most hereditary peers cleared off, | :52:55. | :53:03. | |
all except 92. They are made up of 42 Conservatives, ah, a haunch of | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
cross-backbenchers, a smatters of Lib Dems and three Labour. These | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
days the general feeling is that taking part in the Democrat proik | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
ses by right of birth isn't on, well unless you're the Queen of | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
course, means those peers in the House of Lords are elected. In | :53:20. | :53:26. | |
November last year, the 13th Earl Ferrers died creating a vacancy in | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
the Conservative ranks of sitting peers. Now, his fellow hereditary | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
sitting peers become the electorate and candidates from the register of | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
hereditary peers, who don't sit, throw themselves forward for | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
election. Ironically it takes place under the AV system. The result | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
will be known on the 5th of February. I'd love to explain more, | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
but I huge part of Gloucestershire to run. | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
Oh, life is tough at the top for some people. Joining me now is Lord | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
Sudeley, who has put himself up for election. Lord Sudeley welcome to | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
the programme. Why do you want to do this? Well, two things, I | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
particularly want to bring pieces of business, I'd like toe bring | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
before the House of Lords. The first reflects the bankruptcy of my | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
great grandfather the fourth Lord Sudeley at a place in | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
Gloucestershire called Toddington, personally designed so he was | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
chairman of the commission for the rebuilding of the Houses of | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
Parliament. With the debt accumulated my great grandfather | :54:35. | :54:42. | |
had, he was in debt to about half of what he had. But then he to | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
suffer a bank foreclosure which meant everything going forward... | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
OK. You have a personal back story, but why is it important, why is it | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
important that we have elections for hereditary peers to replace | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
those who've passed on? At least some element of the hereditary | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
element has been kept in the constitution. Democracy now has | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
become a very clean word. I don't think that necessarily has to be | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
the case. In the 18th century we had something which our ancestors | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
called the mixed constitution derived from Aristotle and under | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
such arrangement I believe it was more balanced on the -- whilst | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
elected to the constitution. What about the election process itself? | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
Do you have to give a speech? I made an electoral address for | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
about three minutes. It's not the first time you've gone for this, is | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
it? No, I've done it six times already. I mean, and I presume | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
failed to become elected. Why do you want to put yourself through | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
it? Well, because there's certain things, I was beginning to start to | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
explain one element of the business. Yes, you were. But you're so keen | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
you're prepared to go through the election snfrbgts oh, yes, that | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
doesn't bother me at all. How are you rating your chance that's time? | :56:07. | :56:15. | |
I have 26 competitors. I always was a bit a maverick, so my chances | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
there by possibly rendered a little slighter, I don't know. Good luck. | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
And all the others standing. Thank you for coming onto the programme. | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
Are there too many peers in the House of Lords? Yes. Would you like | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
to see the rest of the hereditary peers go? As Liberal Democrats we | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
wanted to see a Democratically elected House of Lords. That's what | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
we're working towards. Part of the issue we're having with the | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
boundaries in the House of Commons is because we haven't succeeded in | :56:47. | :56:54. | |
reforming the House of Lords. He's a very nice chap, but it's an odd | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
processes, especially elected by AV, which is an irony. We know what the | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
Liberal Democrats position is, why is the Deputy Prime Minister set to | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
create 50 new peers this week? Because we didn't successfully | :57:07. | :57:17. | |
:57:17. | :57:18. | ||
reform the lourdz. It does seem hypocritical. We need to correct it. | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
I prefer a democratic House of Lords. What do you think of the | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
election? No disrespect to Lord Sudeley, is it? Yes. Do you not | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
know him? He couldn't be a better advert for House of Lords reform. | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
Obviously, Labour began the process of House of Lords reform. We got | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
rid of 90% of hereditary peers. We should have got rid of them all. We | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
still should get rid of them all. We'd be happy to work with the | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
Liberal Democrats and others - didn't want to vote for the means | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
to do it. We felt there should be more Parliamentary time. We would | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
have voted for it and your Government withdrew the bill at | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
that point. As you say, we're having this very important vote on | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
boundaries this week. It is about cutting the number of MPs. It's the | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
very same week that we're seeing David Cameron creating I think the | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
largest number of unelected peers. I just find that absolutely | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
hypocritical. Should we get rid of the hereditary peers? I actually | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
think we probably should, at the same time, I think that we throw | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
away our heritage and tradition as -- traditions at our peril. One of | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
the advantages of the Lord's has been that there's been real | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
expertise. There's a couple of peers that I've met recently, who | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
are real experts in things like neuroscience, in human rights and | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
so on, who bring a real case to bear that perhaps through the | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
democratic selection process, you might not get quite that same level | :58:46. | :58:52. |