Browse content similar to 31/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to The Daily Politics. David Cameron said | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
he would stick by the pledge to raise spending on defence in real | :00:47. | :00:54. | |
terms after 2016, but can we afford it? And will it be enough, amid the | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
challenges of the mad, bad, dangerous world? Are education | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
policies in danger of failing less able students? It has just been | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
announced that the accident and emergency department at Lewisham | :01:07. | :01:15. | |
Hospital in London will be downgraded, after a fierce battle. | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
Can campaigns to save local hospitals destroy efforts to | :01:19. | :01:27. | |
improve the nation's health? And meet Bob Servant. BBC Four's new | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
comedy follows a man with no political experience pitched into | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
the maelstrom of a parliamentary by-election. All that coming up in | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
:01:46. | :01:47. | ||
the next hour. With us for the programme today is Roland Rudd, PR | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
man extraordinaire. He heads up the NSPCC's campaign against child | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
abuse, amongst many other roles. Starting with defence - according | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
to some papers this morning, David Cameron has promised there will be | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
no more defence cuts, and he has guaranteed to increase spending by | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
more than inflation from 2015. But it turns out to be not quite as | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
simple as that. We have been trying to work out exactly what the Prime | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
Minister has promised. There is a lot of confusion this morning, | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
partly because we have got briefings eminating from the | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Government here, and also from the back of the Prime Minister's | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
aeroplane in Algeria. Two things are now bill grinned.. Said he | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
would not go back on commitments made back in 2010, when he said he | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
wanted to see real-terms increases in the defence spend. He was | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
referring to the period of 2015 onwards. Some said, that includes | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
the last year of the Comprehensive spending Review, which is subject | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
to intense negotiations which are going on at the moment. But Downing | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Street is saying that defence spending for that period, three | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
years from now, up until the first year of the next period, -- of the | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
next Parliament, that defence spending is not ring-fenced for | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
that period. The key thing that we know now, good news if you are | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
George Osborne, I think, and the other departments which are not | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
ring-fenced, is that the MoD spend for the following three years is | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
not ring-fenced. The Prime Minister sending out a clear message on his | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
North African trip, and remember, a man who is about to deploy possibly | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
dozens of troops in West Africa, that the aspiration is, possibly, | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
to see an end to cuts in defence spending, and possibly even more in | :03:35. | :03:43. | |
terms of real terms growth. Clearers mug to meet! Let's see if | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
the former defence minister can help us. Gerald Howarth, you were | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
at the MoD until last year - what is your understanding? -- clear as | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
mud. I don't think there is much changed here. The Prime Minister | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
said in 2010 that his aspiration was that for 2015 onwards, there | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
would be a 1% up lift in the procurement budget. Actually, what | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
he said was, my own strong view is that this will require a year on | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
year real-terms growth in the defence budget, in the years beyond | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
2015. So, not beyond 2016. And not defence equipment, but the defence | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
budget itself. He then told the Commons in 2011 - the Government | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
plans to increase in real terms the investment in defence equipment by | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
1% per year between 2015 and 2020. So, where are we now? The answer is | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
that there is not much change... what is the position now? Dzeko has | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
made it clear that there will be an increase, there is an aspiration | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
for an increase... We cannot bind the next Parliament.. But you can | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
have an aspiration. So, when? 2015. I thought we were just told | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
it was 2016. Andrew, this is a very serious issue for the Armed Forces. | :05:15. | :05:22. | |
That's why I am asking you questions about it. So, you cannot | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
tell us the year, can you tell us if it is defence equipment or the | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
defence budget? The Prime Minister has said that he wanted to see a | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
real terms up left of 1% in the defence procurement budget. But | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
what has happened since 2010 is that the world has become much more | :05:40. | :05:48. | |
dangerous place, we have seen a completely unexpected and | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
unanticipated eruption of turbulence in will have a go. We | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
have seen Syria, we know Iran is dangerous, and the idea which is | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
being floated in the past currently that defence spending should not be | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
ring-fence between now and 2015, and that there should not be | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
further cuts because the task of restoring the public finances is | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
proving more difficult that we had imagined - my view is that we need | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
to invest in defence now. We have given up some capabilities which do | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
need to be restored, like the maritime patrol aircraft. That's | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
not going to happen, is it? solution is that you freeze the aid | :06:28. | :06:35. | |
budget. My argument, and the public will support me, is that we should | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
freeze the aid budget, not cut it, but freeze it at its current level, | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
which is about 8.6 �5 billion, and should not increase it by another | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
more than �2 billion this year. Give that money to defence. Are you | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
able to clarify for us whether the Government is talking about the | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
defence budget or the defence procurement budget, which is | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
equipment? I am not in the Ministry of Defence today, and I cannot tell | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
you whether that is the case or not. I just wondered, since it is a | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
mystery, with the two statements being contradictory. Downing Street | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
has said it is defence spending... But Philip Hammond was talking | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
about defence equipment this morning. Yes, but Downing Street | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
has subsequently clarified it. Where is Labour on this? We are | :07:30. | :07:38. | |
talking about aspirations, but my understanding, and that of my | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
colleagues on the defence committee, is that it was defence equipment | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
spending, so that is a 1% increase in less than half of the defence | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
budget. And what we are seeing is that the Prime Minister does not to | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
detail. I suspect he was quite tired coming back from Algeria. He | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
said something without working it out. George Osborne, understandably, | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
from his perspective, has had to slap down the Prime Minister. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
George Osborne is doing his best to try to defend a ridiculous | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
situation. What I asked you was not about government policy, I was | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
asking you about your party's policy. Are you going to increase | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
defence spending up to 2015? Miliband has been clear, we cannot | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
make pledges more than two years before an election. Gerald Howarth | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
does not know any more than George Osborne does, what the economy is | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
going to be like in 2.5 years. they do not know what the economy | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
is going to be like in 2015, and yet we are planning to increase the | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
aid budget every year between now and then. We planned to increase | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
that aid budget when we thought the economy would have grown by six% by | :08:50. | :09:00. | |
:09:00. | :09:00. | ||
now. As we stand today, our viewers are faced with a Conservative Party | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
in total confusion over defence spending, and you, with no policy | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
at all. We have said very clearly that we will make decisions about | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
departmental spending at the time of the election. We said in the | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
last -- we saw in the last Parliament Liam Fox promising to | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
expand the are many, and then cutting it. The big lesson is that | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
you do not make spending commitments 2.5 years out. You have | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
no policy. We have no spending commitments which we're making this | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
far out, and we have demonstrated why that is not advisable. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
Prime Minister has indicated that he wants to see an uplift in the | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
defence budget - whether that is confined to procurement, or with | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
the that is the overall budget, I don't think is an issue. In any | :09:50. | :09:58. | |
case, it is in the next Parliament. I think what your viewers will be | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
much more concerned about is where we are today. We still have 9,000 | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
personnel in Afghanistan. And the Prime Minister how's, as every good | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
Conservative Prime Minister before him, he has an aspiration to give | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
Britain influence in the world, which I completely support. But we | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
need the means to do that. That's what you both to - Labour fought | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
five wars on peacetime budgets, and your government now wants to get in | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
to West Africa and have a generational struggle, at a time | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
when you are slashing the defence budget. The British people are | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
right to wonder why we have got politicians on the Left and Right | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
who want to increase our foreign policy commitments and cut our | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
defence budget? It is vital that they clarify whether this is | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
equipment or the overall budget. Otherwise, you could take more | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
money away from pay and allowances to subsidise this procurement | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
programme, which is why this is important. I think this is simple - | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
you cannot ask the army to do more for less, which is what they are | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
being asked. I do not believe the world has become more dangerous | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
place. The world has been a dangerous place, and it will | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
continue to do so. If we want to ask the army to do what they are | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
being asked to do, we have to make sure the spending commitment is | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
there. If there is a problem in terms of the spending, then we pull | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
back on our ambitions. We cannot have it both ways. This leak from | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
the Telegraph in terms of actual spending does not appear to be | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
correct. They are also being asked, as you know, to come up with | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
voluntary redundancies, which is another potentially real problem. | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
Because then, you lose some of your best people, rather than allowing | :11:47. | :11:55. | |
you to get rid of the weakest people, which is a terrible shame. | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
Your own position is that the Government should, given the | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
ambitions it has, which is why Mr Cameron is in Algeria and so on, it | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
should be looking not to continue to cut defence spending over the | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
next three years? That is my position to date. That was actually | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
my position in government. Privately that was the view I | :12:15. | :12:23. | |
expressed. I said to the Prime Minister that I could see no case... | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
I said I had not met any Conservative member in the country | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
there was in favour of cutting expenditure on the Armed Forces. He | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
said, I gave a commitment, like I did on the third runway, and one | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
has to respect the Prime Minister's integrity on this. My view is that | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
the world has changed, the circumstances have changed. On a | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
positive note, both Philip Hammond and Liam Fox did a fantastic job in | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
sorting out the horrendous state of the MoD's accounts. They are now | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
balanced, and would you believe it, we have even got a contingency | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
amount of �12 billion in the budget! We had better leave it | :13:03. | :13:10. | |
there. For it is time for our daily quiz. Later in the programme we | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
will be talking about a new comedy a BBC Four, where Bob Servant is | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
pitched into a by-election in Dundee. The question today - who | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
was done the's most famous member of Parliament? Was it Gordon Brown, | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
Winston Churchill, William Gladstone or Alec Douglas-Home? At | :13:31. | :13:38. | |
the end of the show, Roland Rudd will give us the correct answer. | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
have absolutely no idea! I will have it by the end of the show. | :13:43. | :13:52. | |
was famous. What is Dundee famous for? Jam, Jews and journalism. | :13:52. | :14:02. | |
:14:02. | :14:08. | ||
Correct. You do not get outside of Now exams. The Education Select | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
Committee says it has serious concerns about the Government's | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
intentions to reform GCSEs in England. They say that introducing | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
the English Baccalaureate Certificate in place of GCSEs so | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
quickly could threaten the stability of the exam system and | :14:17. | :14:26. | |
will do little to help less able pupils. Instead, the Government | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
should be concentrating on the 40% of pupils, who do not achieve five | :14:30. | :14:39. | |
good GCSEs. Yes, well it has been called the biggest shake-up in | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
school exams for 16 year olds in England in a generation. The plan | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
is for GCSEs, seen by some as too discredited due to concerns about | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
grade inflation and dumbing down, to be replaced by the English | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Baccalaureate Certificate or EBC. Students in England are due to | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
begin studying the EBC in two years' time - initially in | :14:55. | :14:56. | |
mathematics, English and science, though eventually history, | :14:56. | :15:04. | |
geography and languages will also be included. Education Secretary | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
Michael Gove says the aim of the reforms is to restore rigour to the | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
education system. Announcing the reforms last September, he said: It | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
is time for the race to the bottom to end. But critics say the EBC | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
will be too narrow and will sideline subjects like art, music, | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
religious studies, design and technology and drama studies. And, | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
this morning, the Education Select Committee said the Government is | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
doing too much too fast. I am joined now by the BBC's education | :15:30. | :15:40. | |
correspondent, Luke Walton. How serious it is this criticism? | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
a swingeing attack. It says the Government has not proved the case | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
for GCSEs to be scrapped in key subjects. It mentions concern about | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
less able pupils being left behind and subjects not covered by the new | :15:58. | :16:06. | |
EBacc will be downgraded. It also voices particular concern about the | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
plan to ask exam boards to franchise the qualification. It | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
says introducing that change and a very tight timetable is a recipe | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
for turmoil. This is just the latest in a series of criticisms. A | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
few months ago England's main exam regulator wrote to ministers | :16:28. | :16:38. | |
:16:38. | :16:39. | ||
voicing concern about the pace of reform. There -- there has been | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
disapproval from head teachers and exam boards. The proposals are just | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
for England. What sort of headache which cause for the rest of the UK? | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
At the moment it looks like England is going it alone with | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
disqualification. The Dutch government said it is sticking with | :16:59. | :17:07. | |
GCSEs in all subjects. -- the Welsh government. Northern Ireland, we | :17:07. | :17:16. | |
understand, is running its own review into the future of exams for | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
14 to 18-year-olds. Scotland has had its own system of exams for a | :17:21. | :17:28. | |
long time. There is concern about fragmentation of exams. That'll be | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
a headache for universities and employers. With us now is Graham | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
Stuart, who is the chairman of the Education Select Committee This | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
morning, the top experts from the big four accountancy firms appeared | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
before the Public Accounts Committee. What is wrong with the | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
English Baccalaureate Certificate, as being proposed? What we say is | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
the Government is right to say that 16-year-old exams need to be | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
reformed, cut down the number of resits and have more testing at the | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
end of the course and tackle grade inflation. What they are saying is | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
they want to scrap GCSEs in this core group of subjects because the | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
GCSE brand is broken and tainted. You do not agree? We do not think | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
the Government has made a strong enough case to justify it. How is | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
it that most subjects will be left with this discredited brand as | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
GCSEs for years to come? Is it because those five are the ones | :18:22. | :18:32. | |
:18:32. | :18:32. | ||
that he really cared about -- cares about? Computer science has just | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
been added to the science collection today. We're not short | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
of the details. You think that improvements could be made by | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
reforming, stiffening, toughening up the GCSE system? It is a cross- | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
party group which accepts the Government make mistakes on things | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
like the diploma where they did not listen to things about curriculum | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
design. Thousands of children took the Diplo, -- the Diplo match and | :19:05. | :19:15. | |
:19:15. | :19:19. | ||
it has a -- it has up with it on the fine. It has massive political | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
implications if it is not right. Cross-party we support a lot of the | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
things you want. Let's look again at the methodology and make sure | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
you get the implementation right. There is no point of bringing in a | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
reform witches and kicked by another government and does not | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
have the support of universities, employers and the profession itself. | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
It is a good idea to ensure we have more we get in education. When the | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
last government got rid of languages being compulsory, I think | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
up was a huge mistake. We need to speak languages. We have been | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
running a campaign to make at least one language compulsory. There is a | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
need to make it better. I would be concerned that if you had two | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
systems, you are left with some good subjects which are still going | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
to be GCSE and tainted as grated two and great one for the key ones. | :20:21. | :20:28. | |
You need to do one or the other. You cannot have two systems running | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
together. That will be bad for the subjects that matter. Do you accept | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
that GCSE qualifications have become devalued? It may not be | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
possible to have one exam system covering those who are not at all | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
academically gifted but also covers those who are going to head for the | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
Russell group of universities. irony is that the Government is not | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
a aware of how many people took the foundation Tear of GCSE. This exam | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
will be sacked by a wider range of children and is the current main | :21:07. | :21:17. | |
:21:17. | :21:19. | ||
GCSE. -- will be sacked. It will be broader. The Government asserts | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
Bury's -- the Government says it is a harder exam and it will be taken | :21:23. | :21:33. | |
:21:33. | :21:36. | ||
by more people. you move your measurement. We do not have the | :21:36. | :21:44. | |
curriculum review yet. How you can come out with an assessment - you | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
have a top Tia - without having the foundations in place. We do not | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
know what you are supposed to teach and how schools can be held to | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
account. We do not know how it will be assessed. It does not seem very | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
coherent. If there were red lights flashing, the Secretary of State | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
said he would listen. We think they are flashing pretty brightly. I am | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
sure he will listen. You do not stand at all sure! I hope he will | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
listen. He has a real sense of urgency to. There has been grade | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
inflation which needs to be tackled. He wants to take us to a more | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
rigorous set of exams. More stretch of the more able. Those sorts of | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
things are right. You need to make sure you're clear about he wins and | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
who loses, in particular about the Government that commits to closing | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
the gap between rich and poor, there must be a positive outcome | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
for children with lesser abilities, as well as the Mini Michael Goves, | :22:55. | :23:05. | |
:23:05. | :23:06. | ||
who are sitting in schools today. Isn't it a very confusing today for | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
teachers, pupils and parents? When I was at primary school and then | :23:11. | :23:19. | |
grammar school, in Scotland, take the English exams, it was large- | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
scale largely O-levels and A-levels so throughout the whole period. | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
There was an exam below the O-level as well. Since then there has been | :23:30. | :23:37. | |
a proliferation of exams. I have no idea where to start. It is true. | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
Nothing irritates children more than when you tell them it is | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
easier today than it was in our day it! It was, wasn't it? I do not | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
know. If you have a permanent revolution in education you have | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
problems. There has been deflation in these grades. They raise their | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
questionnaire has been a problem in terms of standards. -- there is no | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
:24:15. | :24:16. | ||
question there has been a problem. What I am concerned about is it has | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
escalated. It will takeover GCSEs with a new system. We are looking | :24:22. | :24:32. | |
:24:32. | :24:32. | ||
at ditching exams at AS-level. at the same time. There will be new | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
A-levels, a new AS-levels and new GCSEs. He needs to get staff and | :24:38. | :24:48. | |
:24:48. | :24:52. | ||
pupils ready to do it. Can you do a special level A-level? No, they are | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
long gone. Thank you very much. Good luck with Michael Gove. Come | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
back and tell us how you got on. The top expects from the big four | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
accountancy firms stood accused of aiding and abetting corporate tax | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
avoidance. But, as the hearing progressed, it seemed that they | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
might also be engaging in question avoidance. I have won the scheme | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
you offered to a company called Carlisle. Basically you devised the | :25:28. | :25:37. | |
most complex company structure - absolutely extraordinary company | :25:37. | :25:46. | |
structure. This is a company called Carlisle. They were European real- | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
estate partners. Then you devised a hugely complex structure. That is | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
the company structure. People listening will not be able to see. | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
Two subsidiaries in Jersey. One subsidiary in Luxembourg. A whole | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
purpose of the complexity of this structure is too, in your words, | :26:14. | :26:24. | |
minimise tax - in my words, avoid tax. I know you cannot answer. This | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
is your personalised offer to large corporations - to create a very | :26:30. | :26:39. | |
complex set of company structures - the purpose of which, for you, is | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
minimising tax and for us, avoiding tax. I cannot comment. The tax law | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
is very complex in the UK and internationally. The Finance Bill | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
just passed his 50 pages longer than any other finance bill. Do you | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
offer a complex structures, involving setting up structures in | :27:00. | :27:07. | |
low-tax jurisdictions bike in this case Luxembourg and Josie and | :27:07. | :27:15. | |
Delaware and the Cayman Islands? Do you do that for the purpose of | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
minimising tax? It will be one of the things that is taken into | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
account. And we're joined by the Lib Dem peer and former Treasury | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
spokesman Matthew Oakeshott. Is the coalition winning the war against | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
tax avoidance? It is an uphill struggle. They are trying. I have | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
been campaigning on this for many years in opposition and now. We are | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
getting the message across that it is unacceptable. It has been a | :27:43. | :27:52. | |
struggle. We were not helped by Sir Philip Green. Obviously we have the | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
chairman of Google, one of the world class tax avoiders. At the | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
moment he is on the business advisory group of David Cameron. | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
Maybe we could get some more tax money out of him? I do not think | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
talking to him would help. He has been very honest about it. There | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
are ways of being very aggressive and not. I think George Osborne got | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
it right in the Budget. He said aggressive tax avoidance is morally | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
repugnant. We're trying to shame big companies into not doing | :28:31. | :28:38. | |
morally repugnant things. You love to tinker and get your weight and | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
have a tax cut here or a tax incentive there and so on. How big | :28:45. | :28:53. | |
is a handbook? It is enormous. is not like that. It is like this! | :28:53. | :29:01. | |
How many pages? 11,000 pages. not in government. I have never | :29:01. | :29:09. | |
been in government. A lot of what I do is try to make it simple. Tried | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
to stop all the dodges actually. First of all, Gordon Brown doubled | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
the size and created hundreds of ways in which expensive accountants | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
can find ways around it. This coalition government has added | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
thousands more pages. I am not the coalition government and I am not | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
Gordon Brown. As pension spokesman, I spent a lot of my life trying to | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
stop Gordon Brown and Labour having such a lot of ridiculous tax | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
arrangements. I have spent a lot of my life campaigning for | :29:50. | :29:57. | |
transparency and simplicity. We are making progress. We got | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
PricewaterhouseCoopers in the frame having to defend the outrageous | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
things they do. There are two reasons why companies and people | :30:05. | :30:14. | |
used the Cayman Islands. Basically you are doing it because it is | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
corrupt and dirty money bought it is money that is avoiding tax. No | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
other reason for it. reputational risks for companies | :30:23. | :30:32. | |
now... Have I knew advising Starbucks? Yes. It is quite large | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
reputation any. They are probably exploiting the huge tax code which | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
has been created. There is a reputational risk if they are not | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
seem to be paying their fair whack. That is right. I agree with what | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
has been said. Going abroad to avoid paying tax is not acceptable. | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
One of the things we are trying to encourage people to do is that you | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
should not be honoured if you are avoiding tax. That has happened in | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
the past and should not happen again. The mood has changed. | :31:09. | :31:19. | |
:31:19. | :31:21. | ||
I have campaigned against Lord Ashcroft and other people, non-doms, | :31:21. | :31:30. | |
getting status in the House of Lords, and I have done that. Amazon | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
is a new one, but we have certainly got Lord Ashcroft to come onshore. | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
It may be of symbolic importance, and I think most people will think | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
it is only right that if you're not in this country paying your tax, | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
then you should not be part of the tax and spend debate. You should | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
not be in our legislative chamber. And you should not be honoured, | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
that's fine, it is your choice, you can live anywhere in the world, and | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
you should not get certain things if you do not live here. I | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
understand that. But that is not going to make a blind bit of | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
difference to the Treasury, trying to get these billions of pounds. It | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
is not going to change overnight. EU regulations encourage companies | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
to place their intellectual property rights in Luxembourg. So, | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
what is the problem they fact I think it is true that you are going | :32:20. | :32:28. | |
to have to have a more clear tax system. You have got mixed messages. | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
We have had a message which said, if you come to Britain, you must | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
pay a higher tax than the law necessarily says you have to pay. | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
That is a confusing message to companies. It has to be one clear | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
message. I agree with that, and this is work in progress for George | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
Osborne. He stuttered of sending out a message of, come to Britain, | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
it is the lowest tax place in the world. It is hard for him to move | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
on from that and say, no, we do not want to say that. We need to look | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
at the practical things that need to be done now. The key things | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
include much more transparency in company accounts, so that we can | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
actually see, and have proper reporting, country by country, for | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
these big internationals. If you are Google, turning over billions | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
here and only paying �6 million in tax, that means - and I believe | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
there should be reform of company law, so that all big companies have | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
to show exactly what they are paying, and the directors and the | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
non-executives have to explain how much below the corporation tax what | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
they are paying actually is. A lot of these companies depend on public | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
approval. Starbucks is a case in point. They are minor tax dodgers, | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
compared to Google and Amazon. Can I have my feet afterwards for that | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
one, please? Your client is almost whiter-than-white! You can go to | :33:58. | :34:06. | |
Costa Coffee, or wherever else, rather than... Did that come out of | :34:06. | :34:15. | |
the PR budget? It is a pre-payment. It is just up front? No, they have | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
restructured their business, so they are going to be paying tax. | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
They wanted to pay tax immediately, now. On a turnover of? They do not | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
split it up, it is a difficult question, because they have | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
transfer pricing, of course. An awful lot of activity seems to | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
happen in Holland. Holland as well as Luxembourg have got a reputation, | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
in EU terms. But this is all part of getting this. In the Times today, | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
PricewaterhouseCoopers are saying, we do not do this kind of thing any | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
more. I am naming and shaming them, but I am also... We do not do mass | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
market tax-planning schemes any more, they say. In other words, | :35:00. | :35:09. | |
they only do a bespoke tailoring. bet you Starbucks' marginal rate of | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
tax is a lot lower than mine. would never bet with you, Andrew. | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
If they did not have a reputation or problem, they would not be | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
paying Roland Rudd good money! After months of campaigning, | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
residents of south London found out the fate of services at Lewisham | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
hospital this morning. The Health Secretary told the House of Commons | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
that whilst he understood the concerns of local people, he had | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
taken advice that the future of health services in the area would | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
be better if the accident and emergency department at Lewisham | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
was downgraded. He explained why he felt he had no choice. The NHS | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
Trust and is the most financially challenged in the country, with a | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
deficit of �65 million per annum. It currently spends �60 million a | :35:53. | :36:00. | |
year, 16% of its annual income, to service two PFI contracts, signed | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
in 1998. For this and other reasons, repeated local attempts to resolve | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
the financial crisis at the trust have failed. As a result, the trust | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
is losing more than �1 million every week. In the three years | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
since it was formed in 2009, it has generated a deficit of �153 million, | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
a figure which will rise to more than �200 million by the end of | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
this financial year, a huge amount of money, which has to be diverted | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
away from frontline patient care. That was the Health Secretary, | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
Jeremy hunt. We can now welcome our viewers in Scotland, who have just | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
finished watching First Minister's Questions. Now, with us from | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
outside Lewisham Hospital is Alex Bushill from BBC London. What has | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
the reaction been? As you would expect, dismay, disappointment and | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
anger. They say that this decision to close the accident and emergency | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
unit here, downsizing it to a minor, urgent care centre, as well as | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
downgrading the maternity unit, is grossly unfair. They say the south | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
London Health Care Trust, this hospital, has debts, but they are | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
manageable. They do not see why they should be forced to pay for | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
the mismanagement of the neighbouring trust. The accident | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
and emergency unit will go, and in its place there will be an urgent | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
care centre, which means that those 120,000 people who come through the | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
doors currently, that will drop to 60,000 people. The maternity unit | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
will this capacity as well. 4,500 births every year here at Lewisham | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
Hospital. That will shrink now to 1,000 births. So, there is a great | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
deal of anger here. And as we saw last weekend, the campaigners have | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
been out in some force. They say the argument may be lost, but the | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
battle is not over. They will continue to fight this, they say. | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
They say there are three years for the implementation to be carried | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
out, and they say they build continue to try to frustrate the | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
Secretary of State. They say they will also be seeking judicial | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
review. They say the public consultation period has not been | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
long enough. They are looking for three months of public consultation, | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
which is why they will be going to the court to try to overturn that | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
decision. With us now is Mike Farrar from the NHS Confederation, | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
and the Conservative MP Nick de Bois. What do you say to that | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
reaction, that it is grossly unfair, particularly because Lewisham has | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
not mismanaged its finances in the way that neighbouring hospitals | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
have? The point is a more general one. About the country, people are | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
thinking about the changes to the Health Service which we need to | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
make. At the moment, the way in which hospital care and primary | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
care is organised means we are not getting the best results for | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
patients. We are not spending the money has wisely as we can. We need | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
to make a strong case for a case -- for change, of course, with public | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
opinion as well. If we do that, we would like to think that we could | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
count on political support from our elected colleagues at. Can you not | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
count on that support? In many cases, we can. But we have seen | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
cases where politicians have agreed with me in private, for example, | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
when I was running health services, but have then said, they feel they | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
have to be at the front of the march. That is not helpful. Do you | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
think actually you're not being straight with your constituents | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
when, in fact, as an MP in an area where a local hospital is proposed | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
for closure, because perhaps it is failing or it is not as good as it | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
would be if there was a merger, by saying, I am going to campaign to | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
keep it open at any cost? Let's deal with that directly. I was | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
elected to fight to save chase Farm accident and emergency from being | :39:48. | :39:56. | |
downgraded. Fundamentally because the neighbouring area, Barnet, was | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
saddled with ghastly Beefy debts. This was a consultation which many | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
people had lost trust in. -- PFI gets. I was elected to do that job. | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
There was no question. You were elected to do that job - is it the | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
right decision to back keeping a hospital open if there is a | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
clinical case which clearly says, we would be better off closing this | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
unit and having a larger, more specialist unit up the road? It is | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
not for a politician to start arguing about the clinical case. My | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
criticism of the debate which has gone on around chase Farm is that | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
the medical profession did not step up to the mark, did not make the | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
case. If they had done that, they could win the hearts and minds of | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
people, if it was the right thing to do. Why are they not doing that? | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
He is white, we have to win the hearts and minds of people, and | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
clinicians need to be involved in making that case. My argument is | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
that where those cases for change have been made, like saving lives | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
or improving survival rates from stroke, where commissions are | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
saying that, I would expect my MP to be supportive of that. Would you | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
like local politicians to keep out of the debate altogether? I am a | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
democrat, I believe in democracy. It is really important that people | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
understand why these changes are in their interests. They look for | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
political leadership from their MPs.. But I have got the letter | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
here, which you actually wrote to the medical director of the NHS, | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
saying that actually, the front line professionals just were not | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
there on during the case, they were not taking the lead. If they are | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
not there arguing for a hospital to be closed because there was a | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
better alternative, then you cannot expect politicians to do it for | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
you? I would accept that. I think we have got to step up to the plate, | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
we have to make the clinical case for change, we have to explain what | :41:52. | :41:59. | |
it means. But also, we then depend on our politicians. Do you think | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
there will ever be a case of MPs standing there saying, I think our | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
local hospitals should close? Could that ever be the case, even when | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
the clinical case is clear? would be an extremely foolish MP | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
who stood outside an accident and emergency, which are massively | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
reduced number of people were going to, and not saying, safe this | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
accident and emergency. Particularly when the Government | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
themselves have said that actually, if we do not win the support of GPs | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
and patients, this is one of the four tests. So, in a way, you have | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
got this conflict going on between winning the medical argument, which | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
they think is a reasoned argument, and one that needs to be fronted by | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
the medical profession, and only then, I think, should the | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
politicians be making the point about reflecting their constituents, | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
as to what they wish to do. These things do not happen overnight. | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
Chase Farm has been going on since 2005. Constituents are never going | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
to campaign to close the hospital, even if the numbers are low, unless | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
they are persuaded of a clinical argument, with the backing of the | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
local MP. If they are told that distances to the nearest hospital | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
may be further, but you will see a specialist, and your rate of | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
survival will increase, that is the argument you need to make as well? | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
If that was a valid argument, I could see a case for someone doing | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
that. But when you have eight years of consultation being held behind | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
closed doors in central London, remote from the constituency, take | :43:33. | :43:40. | |
a look at my example, chase Farm. If you say, we are going to consult | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
the majority of people from Barnet, Haringey and Enfield, which is the | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
area we are talking about, is it any wonder that there is a majority, | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
based on Barnet and Haringey, which said, we would rather downgrade | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
chase Farm and give everything to our neighbouring hospitals, which | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
is now happening? I think the medical profession have to take the | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
lead, but I am not signing up to anything which has been going on | :44:05. | :44:15. | |
:44:15. | :44:18. | ||
where it has not been transparent It is an issue that is not just | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
dividing the political class. The business world has been to-ing and | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
fro-ing over whether David Cameron's promise to renegotiate | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
our relationship with Europe and set a date for a referendum - five | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
years from now - is a good move for Britain. So what impact is it | :44:30. | :44:40. | |
:44:40. | :44:45. | ||
likely to have on firms? Susana Who likes a bit of European tipple? | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
Tom, the resident wine expert here it is partial to a Bordeaux. A | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
couple of miles away, but Prime Minister is after something with | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
less of a European flavour. The wind is an analogy for David | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
Cameron a pester Ps promised to Alter our relationship with the EU. | :45:06. | :45:16. | |
:45:16. | :45:18. | ||
-- David Cameron's promise. All those promises have got people in | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
the business world wondering whether the plan has legs. There is | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
no doubt that our continental competitors are all going to be | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
going out there saying, do not invest in Britain, you do not know | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
whether they will have access in the single market or not. Come to | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
us. We need to say, you will have confidence in Britain's future. | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
PM was making clear that the single market remains the sparkling wine | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
in the relationship and there is no question of David Cameron wanting | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
the fizz to go out on that. Around half the UK trade's foreign | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
investment is in UK markets. It says 3.5 million jobs in the UK are | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
linked to export of goods and services to the EU. They say a fine | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
wine gets better with age. Some business leaders think our | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
relationship with Europe has become a bit sour. Business needs to be | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
negotiated settlement within the EU. Currently, it is not helping our | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
economy. If anything, the EU is a job destruction machine, rather | :46:32. | :46:39. | |
than an entity that helps to create jobs and wealth. EU regulation does | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
have the cost for British firms. It says companies spend up to �9.4 | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
billion on it in 2010. Uncertainty about what flavour we would end up | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
with after a renegotiation on referendum has got some worried | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
their firms in emerging markets may go elsewhere. The British Chambers | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
of Commerce, which supports renegotiation but does not want to | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
leave the EU, says those fears may be exaggerated. There may be those | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
who decline to make decisions because of delay and uncertainty. | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
Many said they will plough ahead anyway because it's his the | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
location, legal system and friendliness which causes them to | :47:23. | :47:31. | |
invest in the first place. -- it is the location. Will that be enough? | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
The business world may find out in five years' time, which is how all | :47:35. | :47:45. | |
this English wine happens to be. -- old. Joining us now is the City | :47:45. | :47:54. | |
Spokesman for UKIP, Steven Woolfe. Business is divided. It is subtle. | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
Do you accept that if Britain could negotiate a less odorous | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
arrangement with the EU, most people would prefer to stay in? | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
Good morning. Thank you for inviting me. Your point is on the | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
premise that you can renegotiate. We do not believe that is possible. | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
There has never been a renegotiation since the history of | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
the European Union. It is quite nines were them to think they can | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
have this but the practicalities are that most businesses recognise | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
it is impossible. Where do we want to be in this global economy? What | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
do we want to do? When they look at the European Union, they are saying, | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
that is one market but it is not the only market. In many ways, it | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
is not the pre-eminent market. Our trade with the rest of the world | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
has increased to 55%. Most businesses with any form of export | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
to the European Union are passionate about wanting to stay in | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
the European Union. They want a reformed European Union. If you | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
keep talking about renegotiation and opt-outs, you are not going to | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
get them. Do not put the bar too high. Look carefully at what you | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
can get in terms of multilateral reforms, which other countries want, | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
like the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland and Italy. If you do that a | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
work on good reforms which improve the European Union for everyone, | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
you might well get something. People in television studios like | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
this have been asking for reform since the 1950s. When will it | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
happen? The creation of a single market was a huge change. That is | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
not a reform, it is an addition. was a massive reform. It does not | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
always mean powers coming back from the centre. Some means powers going | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
back to the centre. The commission is on the side of Britain in terms | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
of making a more liberal Europe. Why don't we just have a common | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
market rather than a single market? Canada, Mexico and the United | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
States have a free-trade agreement. They do not have the massive | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
bureaucracy that we have in Brussels. There is too much | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
bureaucracy. It is not just a single market. By coming up have a | :50:24. | :50:33. | |
free trade area? -- why can we not? It is not possible. America, Canada | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
and Mexico have it to some extent. What we managed to do was to change | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
the European Union so we would have a better market - the biggest | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
market in the world. We're trying to have a free trade arrangement | :50:48. | :50:55. | |
with the US. That is the prize that Britain wants. If you are right | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
that it is impossible for a single country to bring back powers in any | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
substantial way, then you should not care about that? There will be | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
a referendum when you will get to say, he has not brought back enough, | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
vote to leave. I care passionately. I care about what happens to the | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
people of Europe. They need the opportunity to be free of the | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
economic difficulties that they are in. You will still get the in/out | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
referendum and you will still be able to campaign to leave. Only Mr | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
Cameron can deliver that. We are short of one thing and that is that | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
you cannot. We can. We do not have a single seat but one of the most | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
exciting things about the positive aspect of David Cameron making his | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
speech was to show that democracy works. Pressure from ordinary | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
citizens and businesses, joining parties like UKIP or supporting the | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
principles, it has caused concern within the political elite in the | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
United Kingdom. You get plenty of time to speak on this. If I can | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
just finish. The point is, ordinary people have actually had the | :52:13. | :52:20. | |
opportunity to press their MPs here and forced pressure on Cameron to | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
consider that it is not an extreme idea. They need to bring it into | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
the centre of the table of discussions. That is a positive | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
aspect. I do not think this would happen in the European Union in its | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
democratic framework. It is interesting to hear UKIP praising | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
the speech by David Cameron. 90% of it was about being in Europe and | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
the vision of being in Europe. did imply he was enthusiastic about | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
that if he could bring home the bacon. The first part of the speech | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
said the vision he had about Europe a wire was important. The second | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
part was about why the future of Britain was in Europe and how he | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
was confident he could get a reform. He needs to manage that process | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
very carefully and be careful about the language used. He is a local | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
man made good. He compares himself to Nelson Mandela. And he wants to | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
beat the Westminster parties to become Broughty Ferry's independent | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
MP. Let's meet Bob Servant, the political ingenue, pitched into | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
sturm and drang of a parliamentary by election in BBC Four's new | :53:31. | :53:41. | |
:53:41. | :53:47. | ||
comedy, set in East Dundee. Inspector! I want you to know, if I | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
am elected commit your job is safe. That would not be your decision. | :53:52. | :54:02. | |
:54:02. | :54:11. | ||
You are the big man from the hospital. I am the medical director. | :54:11. | :54:18. | |
I have seen you in the papers with the big cheques. Always glad to | :54:18. | :54:25. | |
receive a charitable donation. am elected, I will not make a big | :54:25. | :54:35. | |
:54:35. | :54:38. | ||
fuss if one of those big cheques should go... Go missing. I find | :54:38. | :54:47. | |
that extremely offensive. So do I! We are joined now by the creator of | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
Bob Servant - the writer, Neil Forsyth. How did you come up with | :54:53. | :55:03. | |
:55:03. | :55:04. | ||
the character? From books. I wrote his autobiography. I created this | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
hubristic character. When a 1-did television premise, I landed on a | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
by-election and an independent candidate. Some people say he is | :55:16. | :55:25. | |
loosely based on George Galloway. Absolutely not! He is from Dundee. | :55:25. | :55:34. | |
He has no bigger fan than myself. In Dundee, we do not lack those who | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
have moustaches. You are clearly from Dundee. Do you think of | :55:40. | :55:46. | |
character would stand a chance if he stood there? I think Brian would | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
but not bop. What does the electorate like in Dundee? They are | :55:51. | :56:01. | |
:56:01. | :56:10. | ||
Broughty Ferry is the posh part of Dundee. It is to the east of Dundee | :56:10. | :56:19. | |
and it is the posh part. It is the Scottish Riviera? Brian comes from | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
Dundee. I managed to get the books to him and we were going to adapted | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
for radio. He had great fun coming back and playing Bob in Dundee. It | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
was shot in Broughty Ferry largely. It must have been nostalgic. People | :56:38. | :56:45. | |
were approaching him on the streets. I actually think in the next Dundee | :56:45. | :56:55. | |
:56:55. | :56:57. | ||
election he will get a few rogue boats. Both episodes are on iPlayer. | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
Six episodes building up to election night. Will he or won't he | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
be coming to Westminster? I have seen quite a few MPs talking about | :57:10. | :57:16. | |
it. Have you ever fancied being a candidate for election? Absolutely | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
not. The reason this be so successful is it appeals to the | :57:22. | :57:31. | |
idea of having someone who speaks as he feels. Not lobby fodder. That | :57:31. | :57:37. | |
is why people find politics so boring. Not enough people are | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
personalities. He does not have a filter. That carries on in future | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
episodes. It builds very nicely. Recover things like the question of | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
independence in Scotland which is covered in his own style. Is there | :57:53. | :58:00. | |
a message in the series? I think there will be a couple of political | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
messages as the stakes get higher. It is showing a man who is a big | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
fish in a small pond who has got into over his head, I think. I will | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
watch it. There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our | :58:15. | :58:25. | |
:58:25. | :58:44. | ||
Who was the most famous MP for That is fit for today. The One | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
O'clock News is starting over on BBC One now. And I am back tonight | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
on BBC One with Michael Portillo, Lord West, Alastair Campbell, Mary | :58:51. | :58:53. |