Browse content similar to 27/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Bonjour, and welcome to the Daily Politics live from the European | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
Parliament in Brussels. Like Britain, the eurozone is mired | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
in stagnation, crippled by debt, but in Brussels they were beginning | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
to think the worst was over, to the Italian elections now mean the | :00:24. | :00:34. | |
:00:34. | :01:04. | ||
eurozone is back in crisis? -- to The result touches us all, said the | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
Spanish Foreign Minister in reaction to the Italian elections. | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
We have jumped into the void. Italy is the big story of the week here | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
in the European Parliament. By voting strongly against EU imposed | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
austerity and electing a raft of Euro-sceptic politicians, the | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
Italians have laid down the gauntlet to the Euro-elite here in | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Brussels. We will try to discover what happens next. | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
David Cameron is promising an in- out referendum on our relationship | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
with his place, but not until 2017. What do the men and women who work | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
here make of that? We will be meeting one MEP who | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
believes the way forward is more integration, not less. | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
Trade that is fair rent free across the Atlantic supports millions of | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
good paying American jobs -- fair and free. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
We will meet the man negotiating with President Obama on an historic | :01:58. | :02:06. | |
trade deal between America and the And standby for the fire and fury | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
of a Prime Minister's Questions the day before the most important by- | :02:09. | :02:17. | |
election for 30 years. We won't be missing a moment of PMQs afternoon. | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
That is all in the next hour-and-a- half live from this Ben Ali | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
building in the European Parliament. Joining us both for the duration is | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
one temporary exile from the Westminster village, David Davis, a | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
former Foreign Office Europe Minister who famously whipped the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Maastricht treaty through the House of Commons, to the chagrin of some | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
of his colleagues on the Tory right - that is French, you know! | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
And Glenis Wilmott of Labour, who leads her party's MEPs in the | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
European Parliament. Bienvenue a vous deux. | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
Let's get a bigger update on the big domestic story of the day, the | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
whole Chris Rennard story. Vicki Young is our political | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
correspondent. Nick Clegg has been doing his phone-in, what did he | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
say? He must have been delighted to remember that he had half an hour | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
of questions on the London station LBC, and Chris Rennard came up. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
Nick Clegg has slightly changed the story again. When he mentioned why | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
Chris Rennard stood down in 2009 we were always told it was about ill- | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
health, but today Nick Clegg said that have caused the allegations of | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
inappropriate behaviour towards women were in the background. He | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
also suggested that because he had just come in as leader, he wanted a | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
change himself up the part of -- at the top of the party structure. But | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
there seems to be again a change in the story which just keeps on going. | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
After the discomfort of the phone- in, where do we go? We have heard | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
from the women who have made the allegations, we have heard | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
responses from Nick Clegg which has changed, what do we do now? | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
party would like everybody to stop talking about it, they have Party | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
investigations going on which they hope will get to the bottom of it, | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
but the more they talk about it, the more the story changes, the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
more it will be covered. That could be a problem, especially with the | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
very important by-election tomorrow. The problem they had originally was | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
that the women involved in this did not want publicity, they thought | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
the issue had been dealt with, Chris Rennard stood down, he had | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
stepped from sight, but then they saw him upping his profile and I | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
think they were worried he was trying to get back into a position | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
of power. That is where it went wrong. But the party President Tim | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
Farron has today said that the party led down these women and | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
things need to be dealt with in the party structure and organisation. | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
Tim Farron was the one who famously said that the party screwed up. | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
By that, I think he meant Nick Clegg! | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
David Davis, this has gone from being a sex scandal that does not | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
seem to involve any sex, thank you, Lib Dems, for that, into a crisis | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
of Mr Clegg's leadership. Will it impact the Eastleigh by-election? | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Hard to know, but I suspect not, in truth. People making by-election | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
decisions tend to make them on local issues. But it certainly | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
can't help their position or make the Liberal story on the door step | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
even easier. -- any easier. In a by-election called because the | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
sitting candidate is going to jail, fought in the middle of a | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
leadership crisis for the Lib Dems, with you only a few thousand votes | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
behind, if they -- if you can't win this, you can't win anywhere? | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
That's true. It ought to be in our favour, but Lib Dems are | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
notoriously difficult to remove. You have 39 or 40 councillors, they | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
control the council entirely in the area. That is their army on the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
ground. I have had to do something like this in my own seat, it took | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
10 years to basically eradicate my Lib Dem opposition. You say and | :06:20. | :06:27. | |
eradicate, should we go there?! But you have said that if you can't win | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
in Eastleigh you can't win anywhere. It would seem to me that if on the | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
early hours of Friday morning we discover the Lib Dems have held on, | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
despite all we have been talking about, we have gone from a crisis | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
for Mr Clegg to a crisis for Mr Cameron. I am not sure about that. | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
It has been discounted with the expectation that they will win. But | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
the UKIP/Tory relationship, what that will be, that is much more | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
likely to win back Tory MPs. UKIP does well and the Lib Dems | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
hold onto the seat, and you come second or, maybe even, a terrible | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
suggestion, third, I suggest there is another crisis for Cameron. | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
think if we came third it would be a crisis, that is the case. A bit | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
is a close second with UKIP on our tail, it would be pretty | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
uncomfortable -- if it is a close second. It will not dislodge David | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
Cameron, he will be there until the next election, but it will make | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
things more uncomfortable. Glenis Wilmott, One nation Labour clearly | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
does not include Eastleigh? It was always going to be an uphill battle | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
in Eastleigh, but I think it says more about what is happening in the | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Conservatives, the Lib Dems and the coalition in general. People | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
obviously don't have these in either party. It will be | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
interesting to see what happens tomorrow. -- people don't have | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
faith in either party. The if you are right and voters do not have | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
faith in either coalition party, that means Eastleigh is precisely | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
the kind of seat that oppositions should be winning. And you have | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
said you would win seats outside your heartland, Eastleigh is not a | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
Porsche, seven-seat, working-class, a former railway workers. -- is not | :08:18. | :08:27. | |
a Porsche seven-seat. If you come forth, it is not good for Labour. | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
A joke it did well in Italy, why can't they do well for Labour? | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
don't think it is quite the same as in Italy! Why are people turning | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
away from this Conservative-led government? Let's look at why | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
Labour can't do well in a constituency like Eastleigh in the | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
midst of an unpopular coalition government with living standards | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
being squeezed higher than in any time since the 1920s. Why do you do, | :08:56. | :09:04. | |
as the polls suggest, so badly? Let's see what happens tomorrow. | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
The story here is that UKIP have taken so many boats from the Tories, | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
which is a real crisis for David Cameron -- so many votes. That is | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
the issue that David Cameron has tried to deal with when he has | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
spoken about a referendum, it has not worked. If the viewers would | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
like to see a full list of beastly candidates, and there are many of | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
them, you can see them on the BBC website -- a full list of the | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
Eastleigh candidates. The indecisive Italian election | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
result has led to fears that political gridlock in the third | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
largest eurozone economy could rekindle the European debt crisis. | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
57% of Italians voted for and to austerity parties, and with the | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
result an effective stalemate, shares and Italian banks fell 7% in | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
value on Tuesday. The eurozone may have been out of the news recently | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
but the economic picture remains bleak. Its economy shrank by 0.6% | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
in the final quarter of 2012. Italy has barely grown for a decade. The | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
European Commission has forecast a further 0.3% contraction across the | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
whole of the EU in 2013. Continued uncertainty in its elite makes any | :10:19. | :10:26. | |
wider recovery less likely. -- continued uncertainty in Italy. The | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
commission says the average unemployment rate will reach 27% in | :10:29. | :10:38. | |
Greece, 28.9% in Spain and 17.3% in Portugal -- 26.9% in Spain. This | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
comes at a time when credit ratings agency Moody's has downgraded | :10:42. | :10:50. | |
Britain's rating from 8882 A one. I am joined by Jane Foley, senior | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
strategist at Rabobank. People would argue that losing the AAA | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
credit rating is a blow for George Osborne, the markets may well have | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
acted it in. But what is the long- term impact of losing the AAA from | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
the UK? Relative to, say, five years ago, there is a new normal in | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
the markets. The UK was not the first to lose AAA, the US lost | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
theirs around 18 months ago and France lost theirs last year. So we | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
have adjusted to what is a worse standard for economies. The other | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
factor is that credit rating companies are only really | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
reflecting the bad news that the markets already know about. There | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
is not too much shock value year, but that is one difference in the | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
UK, there is still a prospect that all three major credit ratings | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
companies could potentially downgrade the UK by the end of, say, | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
this quartet. The march Budget will be key in determining whether that | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
happens. George Osborne could breathe a sigh of relief because of | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
the stalemate in the Italian elections, it has somewhat | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
overshadowed what has happened since Britain lost its AAA. Now the | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
markets will be more spooked by what is happening in Italy. | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
eurozone crisis, foreign international investment point of | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
view, is much bigger than the UK credit rating outlook. Most people | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
had anticipated that would happen anyway. These elections are | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
potentially really very significant. Most people, from an economist | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
point of view, most eurozone politicians, see the need for its | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
elite to carry on with structural reform -- the need for Italy to | :12:32. | :12:42. | |
carry on. But Italy has a very strong history of short-lived, weak | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
coalition governments, that has been since the Second World War. | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
There is a lot of voter apathy so many Italians do not take the | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
elections that seriously, so consequently we have a stalemate | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
position meaning that more structural reform looks really | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
difficult. That is a problem for the eurozone and it serves as a | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
reminder that the crisis in the eurozone is very much up and | :13:05. | :13:13. | |
running still. Thank you, Jane Foley. | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
Here in Brussels we are joined by the European commissioner for trade, | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
Karel de Gucht. Welcome to the programme. The bail out for its | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
elite agreed by the Commission and the ECB and so on was contingent on | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
a number of austerity measures. -- the bail out for its elite. Well | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
that bail out continue now that Italy has voted against austerity | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
measures? I see no other option. It is a deliberate choice of the | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
European Union that we continue to support its elite in its -- to | :13:52. | :14:02. | |
support its elite to get back to normal economic growth. I would not | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
call it a bail out. It was not a bail out. Italy has not been bailed | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
out, we have been taking measures, the Italians have done so, Mario | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
Monti has done so, so that the interest rates went down. In terms | :14:19. | :14:27. | |
of the budget deficits for Italy this year, 2013, it will be a | :14:28. | :14:36. | |
little bit above 2%. So we have quite a good result. We know that | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Italy could not get away with a huge number of bombs it needs to | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
put into the market if the ECB was not standing behind it. -- the | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
number of bombss. If they abandon the programme of Mario Monti, will | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
the ECB continue to support existing measures? These questions | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
are very interesting for journalists. This is not a | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
hypothetical question. Italy has to bother 350 billion euros this year. | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
-- has to borrow. Regardless of whether they stick with austerity | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
or not, does the ECB continued to support that bond buying? Your | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
question is hypothetical because Italy has not decided to abandon | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
the austerity measures they have been taking in the past. People | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
just voted against it. Yes, but first of all you need a government | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
in the country which will change those decisions, and apart from the | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
fact that it will not be easy to find the Government, I don't think | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
you'll find a government that makes a way with those measures. In | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
politics, the day before elections on the day after elections, the | :15:52. | :16:02. | |
:16:02. | :16:07. | ||
difference in between is much more If you continue with what I call | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
the bail out, you want to choose a different word, it means the | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
conditions you impose on bail outs don't matter and the Greece and the | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
Portuguese and the Irish will be saying why are we doing it, as | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
well? But that's why I say that they will continue those measures | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
and you say 57% has been voting against Europe, that's not true. | :16:27. | :16:34. | |
I said voting against austerity. But even that is not true. I happen | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
to know Italy rather well and they have voted with their feet and they | :16:39. | :16:47. | |
are simply fed up with Italian politics and then you could argue, | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
but in the end, Berlusconi got quite a good result, yes, because | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
people say look we don't like him, we don't trust him but at least he | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
doesn't make us problems, you know. Then you have somebody like Monti, | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
predecessor of mine who has been courageous in in taking these | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
measures and if you demonstrate that kind of courage in politics | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
you have to calculate it might well be that you are losing the next | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
elections and that's what's happening with Mr Monti but doesn't | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
say anything about whether his measures were right, his measures | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
were right and you will see that in the future. Not according to the | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
Italian people, I understand they may not matter in Brussels. Let me | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
ask this, do you you accept those European Commissioners, your | :17:32. | :17:39. | |
colleagues and others here who said the eurozone crisis was effectively | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
over at the end of last year was wrong? I don't think what we have | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
been saying is wrong. We were able to stop the cycle of the euro | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
crisis because of the ECB saying clearly, look, we are going to do | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
everything necessary to keep the eurozone together. That has not | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
changed, you know. It is still in crisis, isn't it? You should | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
realise, Sir, that the economic monetary union is monetary project | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
but before all it's a political project and that will stay like | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
that. It's not going to change because of an election in Italy and | :18:20. | :18:28. | |
and then - are you then still a Democrat in all this? When you see | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
the figures, the outcome of the Italian election, of course you | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
have to respect that, but on the other hand, you should not be | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
pleased with that and not look upon this as a demonstration of what you | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
would call a good democratic practice, you know. That all of a | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
sudden a quarter of the population is voting for somebody like Beppe | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
Grillo, who seems to be a very good comic, tells something about the | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
mood in that country and tells something about difficulties | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
democracy is in and the difficulties democracy is in tells | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
something about the courage you need at this present time to take | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
tough decisions like Mario Monti has been taking. The European Union | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
is beginning, is already under way with negotiations for a free trade | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
deal with the United States, which is a big step for both the European | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
Union and for the United States. What's the timetable on that and | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
how confident are you that you will get a free trade deal? | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
timetable, I think we should do it in a short period of time, that's | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
also what the Americans have been saying, that it should happen on | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
one tank of gas but the gas price went down considerably in the US. | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
The American tanks are pretty big! That's what I mean. We should do it | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
now, because there's no reason that you would have a better chance if | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
you take more years and more time to do it. What's your timetable? | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
am not going to nail myself down on timetable. I think ideally we | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
should do it within this serve, in term of this college but of course | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
- then you don't have much time, but don't nail me down on a | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
timetable. Nail me down on a result and the result should be that it's | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
really a big and deep and comprehensive trade deal that's | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
giving a lot of oxygen to both our economies and that re-establishes | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
our leading role in the world economy, that's what we are aiming | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
at, you know. This will be a trade deal that will include the French | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
agricultural sector? Of course and also the British one. Yeah, | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
although you know the problems of the French one. We have already | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
seen what the French agricultural Minister has said. They've said | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
they're open to a deal but vigilant on agricultural matters. The French | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
Minister for agriculture is not negotiating in the European | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
Commission. We will take into account... They still have to | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
approve it. All kind of considerations. You don't have a | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
problem only with European agriculture, there's also very huge | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
problem with the American agriculture. I understand that, but | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
the American Agriculture Minister has said that everything in their | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
sector is up for negotiation, as we have not yet heard that from the | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
French. Let me ask this, if Britain was to leave the European Union and | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
Mr Cameron is offering a referendum on that if he is re-elected in 2015. | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
He is promising a referendum which will be in or out. If Britain voted | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
to leave, would the European Union be prepared to negotiate a free | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
trade arrangement with Britain? First of all, this is a statement | :21:40. | :21:47. | |
about a period after the next legs. Secondly -- after the next election. | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
Secondly, I haven't heard Mr Cameron saying he want to leave the | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
union, the last two pages of his speech, he is... I didn't say that, | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
I said he is offering a referendum and if the people were to vote to | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
leave, would it be possible for Britain to negotiate a free trade | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
arrangement with the European Union on the same basis as you would like | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
to negotiate one with the United States? Europe is not a free lunch. | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
Britain is part of the European Union. It's a very important member | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
state. By the way, they have been playing a very important role, for | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
example, in establishing internal markets, also in the enlargement to | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
the eastern countries, so we want them to stay in, that's what we are | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
going to work on and I am not going to pronounce myself on something | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
that I think will never happen for a number of reasons. It will never | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
happen, David Davis? That's a misjudgment. Depending on how the | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
European authorities respond to attempts at renegotiating our | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
membership, if there's a blank response I think there's a high | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
chance that the British people will vote to leave. Commissioner? | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
understood that you would have a referendum after a treaty change at | :23:01. | :23:10. | |
conditions. Now you have said that we started talking about - also | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
have been working that for 30 years, first in European Parliament, | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
national Government and now in European Commission. I don't see | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
any treaty change in the foreseeable future. Even though | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
there are demands for much deeper fiscal union within the eurozone? | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
There's difference between treaty negotiations, treaty change | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
negotiations and treaty changes, that's not exactly the same, you | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
know. It will be extremely difficult because we have to do | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
that by unanimity and when you start a process there will not only | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
be demands by Great Britain on the table but demands by almost all of | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
the member states and that's why I personally - that's my personal | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
opinion. I cannot see any treaty change in the foreseeable future. | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
Probably if you have any time at any time a referendum in Great | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
Britain, that's the Sovereign decision of Great Britain but I | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
don't think it will be about treaty change. Commissioner, the way the | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
Prime Minister has phrased this is we will have a renegotiation with | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
the European Union about our our relationship which would require | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
treaty change. Very fundamental parts would require treaty change. | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
If that doesn't happen, then his stated aim of arguing to stay in | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
will be completely undermined. If there's no change in our | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
relationship with the Union, the odds of the British people voting | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
to leave would be quite high. you are a democratic country. You | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
are democratic people. If you vote to leave the European Union, that's | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
your Sovereign decision. What I am arguing is that you have many more | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
reasons to stay in than to get out. I believe that in the end people | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
are rationale, you know. someone like yourself, who's a | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
committed European and in any referendum would vote yes to keep | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
Britain in, isn't there a problem that you have with the British | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
people in that if you were to say to the British people Britain could | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
have a free trade arrangement similar to what is being offered to | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
the United States, most British people may say, I would rather have | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
that, actually? It's difficult at the moment, because we haven't had | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
a proper debate about why it's in Britain's interests to be part of | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
Europe. I think the discussion on the referendum, whether I agree or | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
not, is actually bringing that discussion to the fore. That's a | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
good thing. I think once we get people from British businesses, as | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
we have had, coming forward and saying why it's in British | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
interests for us to have strong engagement in Europe, you see the | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
whole term of the debate change and that's happened and that will | :25:48. | :25:55. | |
continue to happen. I think when we have the debate proper... You would | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
win the argument? We had the US saying how important it was, as | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
well. I know we are not governed by the US but it's interesting how | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
people's views change when people like that start coming and making | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
the case. Final word, Commissioner. The Commission have personal | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
congratulations because we are starting with negotiations with US | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
and good reason for that, it will benefit very much to the UK, very, | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
very much. Britain is a big supporter of a tree trade area with | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
America -- free trade area with America. Commissioner, thank you | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
for being with us. The EU may have won the Nobel Peace | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
Prize recently - not a bad little trophy, that one - but there is one | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
glorious gong, revered across the continent, that our European | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
masters are yet to get their grubby hands on. Yes, that's right, the | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
Daily Politics taza, tasse, kuppi, kopp or mug to you and me - and | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
here's your chance to win it. We'll remind you how to enter in a minute, | :26:51. | :27:00. | |
:27:01. | :27:09. | ||
but let's see if you can remember The Prime Minister is on his way as | :27:09. | :27:19. | |
:27:19. | :27:34. | ||
we speak. Not long to wait for his There is a certain preshuplness in | :27:34. | :27:44. | |
:27:44. | :28:14. | ||
To be in with a chance of winning that wonderful Daily Politics mug | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
send your answer to our special e- mail address. | :28:19. | :28:29. | |
You can see the full terms and conditions on our website. | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
It's coming up to 1.00pm here in Brussels - and it is nearly midday | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
back in London. Just take a look at Big Ben - and that can mean only | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
one thing - yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its way. And that's | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
not all, our political correspondent Iain Watson is here | :28:42. | :28:48. | |
with us. The day before the by- election, loss of the credit rating, | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
what's is Mr Miliband's tactic? is going to go on the economy, | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
almost exclusively the economy, he is not going to get into the | :28:56. | :29:04. | |
private grief of the Liberal Democrats. He wasn't doing well on | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
the economy on Monday. They're aware of the risks. The first risk | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
is AAA is a battery rating, so not a credit rating. Does break through | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
to the wider public? The Moody's report on the downgrade there is | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
ammunition there for the Government. For example, if you are cutting too | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
far and too fast as they would suggest, they're saying there might | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
be a further downgrade. They're also saying the economy is still | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
quite competitive. So, there is some ammunition. He knows on its | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
own this isn't going to be the silver bullet that kills off | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
Conservative economic crediblity but he is going to portray it as a | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
symptom of a wider economic malaise. I think he will try and get in | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
these gas prices and profits, as well. That's the squeeze on living | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
standards and people are hurting. Absolutely. The wider Labour | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
strategists are saying they don't want this debate about the economy, | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
they're not entirely winning. They want to move on to living standards | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
and they know by the time of the next election living standards will | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
certainly not be rising so they think that's better territory to | :30:11. | :30:21. | |
:30:21. | :30:26. | ||
occupy. Thank you. Let's go to the Enact the 1984, when the Brighton | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
bomb went off, I felt a surge of excitement at the nearness of | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
Margaret Thatcher's demise, and yet a disappointment that such a chance | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
had been missed. Those are the words of the Labour candidate in | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
Eastleigh by-election. They are a complete disgrace and I hope the | :30:44. | :30:52. | |
leader of the Labour Party will get up and condemn them right now. | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
Mr Speaker, three years ago the Prime Minister had this to say, the | :30:59. | :31:06. | |
first priority of any government has got to be keeping UK plc's | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
credit rating, that has got to come first. It is the only responsible | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
thing to do. Can the Prime Minister tell us, how was that going? | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
First of all, isn't it amazing that the leader of the opposition will | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
not condemn someone who apparently speaks up for terrorists? It isn't | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
it absolutely disgraceful? He will have a second chance when he gets | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
up again. But the decision of the ratings agency is a reminder of the | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
debt and deficit problem that this country faces, and frankly it is a | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
warning to anyone who thinks we can walk away from it. It is absolutely | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
vital that we continue with the work of this government, that has | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
cut the deficit by a quarter, has a million extra private sector jobs | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
and interest rates at record low levels. I know it is still his | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
policy to address excessive borrowing by borrowing more. | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
I was asking about the country's credit rating, about the country's | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
credit rating. This is what he used to say, that it was a mark of trust | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
in our economy, that it was right up front and centre in our new | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
economic model. And his manifesto published for the general election | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
said this, safeguarding Britain's credit rating was the very first of | :32:24. | :32:31. | |
his, and I quote, bench marks for Britain against which the British | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
people can judge the economic success or failure of of the next | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
government. So does the Prime Minister accept that by the first | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
Test he set himself, he has failed? If there is a problem of excessive | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
borrowing, why is it his policy to borrow moult? That is the question | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
he simply has to answer. -- why is it his policy to borrow more? The | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
credit ratings agency Moody's says that Moody's could also downgrade | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
the UK government debt rating further in the event of reduced | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
political commitment to fiscal consolidation. On this side of the | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
house, we know that is the vital work we have to do. Will he finally | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
admits that he is in favour of more borrowing? Admit it. You always | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
know when he starts asking me questions that you can't answer | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
questions about his own record. -- that he can't answer question. A | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
part-time Chancellor said it would be a humiliation for Britain to | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
lose its AAA credit rating -- the part-time Chancellor. I know the | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
Prime Minister is not big on humility, but is manifested it | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
promise he would be accountable and open. -- his manifesto did promise. | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
Yes or no, has he failed the first Economic test that he set out in | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
this manifesto? I'm not arguing for one moment that | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
the rating agency doesn't matter, that is his argument. His argument | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
is the rating agency does not matter, his answer to debt is to | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
borrow more and not take responsibility for the mess they | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
left. This Government has cut the deficit by a quarter, has a million | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
extra private sector jobs and lower interest rates which are vital for | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
the future of the economy. If he wants to see those economies which | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
maintain their AAA rating, they are countries like Canada and Germany, | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
who fix the roof when the sun was shining. Why doesn't he admits that | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
his answer to extra borrowing is to borrow more? Have another go, admit | :34:42. | :34:51. | |
it. Anytime you want to swap places, I will gladly answer the questions! | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
And he talks about borrowing, I don't know when the last time he | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
checked was, the deficit is rising, not falling this year. And he is | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
borrowing �212 billion more than he planned because of his failure to | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
grow the economy. Let's turn to the reasons for the downgrade. Can we | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
take it from his answers so far that he really believes that this | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
loss of the country's AAA status, which he set as the test, has | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
nothing to do with him? I'm the one saying his credit | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
rating does matter, and it demonstrates we have to go further | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
and faster are reducing the deficit. But the very fact he won't answer | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
the question about wanting to borrow more, he will never sit on | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
this side of a house but he won't answer the questions about what the | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
country needs to do. If you want to look at what is happening in the | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
economy, isn't it interesting that he doesn't mention the other | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
economic news from last week, 154,000 extra people in work, more | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
people in employment than any time in our history, youth unemployment | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
down since the election, unemployment down since the | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
election, that is what is happening in our economy, but he can't | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
recognise it. When will he admit that we should never listen to | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
someone who sold the Gold, who bossed the banks, who racked up the | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
deficit and can't say sorry for any of it? | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
I think we can take it from that answer that he can't accept the | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
simple fact that he has failed on the first Test he set himself and | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
it is his fault, it has happened on his watch. And borrowing is rising | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
under him. Even after all the pain of the tax rises, all the spending | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
cuts, borrowing is rising, because the part-time Chancellor's plan is | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
failing. The truth is that they are the last people left who think | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
their plan is working and the failure is nothing to do with them. | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
We have 1 million young people... The Education Secretary calls out | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
that is not true, maybe he believes that, but behind the scenes he is | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
briefing against the Chancellor! Maybe they should swap places! We | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
have 1 million young people out of work, the deficit is rising, not | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
falling, the economy is flatlining. What further evidence does he need | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
that his plan is not working? examine the points he has made, he | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
says the deficit is up, it is down by a quarter since the election. He | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
said we don't have support for our plan, the CBI, the biggest business | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
association in the country, says we have the right plan for growth. He | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
complains about unemployment, it is down on the election and a record | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
number are in work. Those are the facts. Now let us examine his | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
policy, the fact that the New Statesman, the in-house magazine of | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
the Labour Party, says this, his critique of the Government's | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
strategy will never win back public trust, his proposals for the | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
economy will never convince, his credibility problem will only | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
become magnified as the general election progresses. That is the | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
New Statesman! With the greatest of respect to the New Statesman, he is | :38:10. | :38:20. | |
:38:20. | :38:31. | ||
All we have heard today... Order, order, order! You are excitable | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
fellow! It is not very statesmanlike, calm yourself! Mr Ed | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
Miliband. All we have heard today is a Prime Minister who refuses to | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
accept that he has failed on the central test he set himself, who | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
has failed to meet the first Test he set for himself. It is not just | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
our credit rating downgraded, we have a downgraded government, a | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
downgraded chance land are downgraded Prime Minister. -- | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
downgraded Chancellor and a downgraded Prime Minister. If the | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
New Statesman is scraping the barrel, it was the only newspaper | :39:10. | :39:20. | |
:39:20. | :39:21. | ||
which endorsed his leadership! I have to say... LAUGHTER AND | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
SHOUTING. In this Oscar week, perhaps the | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
best we can say is that Daniel Day- Lewis was utterly convincing as | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
Abraham Lincoln, and the right honourable gentleman is utterly | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
convincing as Gordon Brown. More borrowing, more spending, more debt. | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
Andrew Jones! In 10 years running Harrogate | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
Borough Council, the Conservatives have cleared to the �19.6 million | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
of debt left by the Liberal Democrats and have enabled a | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
council tax freeze. Does the Prime Minister show that this shows the - | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
- does the Prime Minister agree that this show us the wisdom to | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
tackling debt and anything else is the road to ruin? It is worth | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
recognising that when it comes to finding efficiencies and value for | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
money, local government has an excellent record and we should | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
really say that in this place, they have a good record of paying down | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
debt, dealing with deficit and being refashioned. That reduces | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
your debt interest charges. -- and being efficient. | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
Next month a big event alongside the Budget will be the champions | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
Wales playing England at the Millennium Stadium. HEAR, HEAR! | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
Does the Prime Minister have the same confidence in England winning | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
the Triple Crown as his Chancellor had in retaining the AAA credit | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
rating? And as team manager, does he intend to change his economic | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
team to avoid further humiliation and a triple dip recession? There | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
is a difficult record with prime ministers endorsing various rugby | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
or football teams, so I won't plan to do that, but I am very proud of | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
the fact that on St David's Day the Welsh flag will be flying above | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
Downing Street, as it should be, and when it comes to the rugby, may | :41:17. | :41:26. | |
:41:27. | :41:28. | ||
the best team win. Has My right honourable friend | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
noticed that, in common with the United States and Japan, we lost | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
our to play staters, that the cost of our international borrowing has | :41:36. | :41:45. | |
actually fallen? -- lost our AAA status. I don't deny for one second | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
the importance of the ratings agencies, but the most important | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
test of credibility which you face day-in, day-out in the market, is | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
the rate of interest at which you borrow, and our rate of interest is | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
still at record lows. It has gone down since the elections where it | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
has gone up in many other countries. If we listen to the party opposite, | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
it would go up again. The Prime Minister will be aware of | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
an increased need for food banks in constituencies like mine brought | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
about by his Government's failed policies. Will he sign a my | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
petition calling for action so that no family in the UK goes hungry due | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
to his policies? I was certainly look at his petition. First of all, | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
the use of food banks went up tenfold under the last Labour | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
government. But a very important change the maid, asked for by the | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
Trussel Trust, which does so much to promote the work of food banks, | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
was to allow them to be advertised in JobCentres. The last government | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
didn't do that because they were worried about the PR. We put people | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
ahead of public relations. This week, the generation that | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
fought in the Arctic convoy and Bomber Command, who died in the | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
Second World War, have finally been recognised. Does my right | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
honourable friend agree with me that it is right that we remember | :43:11. | :43:18. | |
the 3000 sailors and the 55,000 their lives for the freedom of this | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
country? It is right to raise this issue and I am sure there will be | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
support right across the House of Commons for those who do parts in | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
the Arctic convoys and all those who served in Bomber Command. It is | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
not enough to have the excellent memorial to those who served in | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
Bomber Command in Green Park, it is right that we have the medal for | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
Arctic convoy and the class four Bomber Command. It is very | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
important that we hand these out as quickly as possible, because people | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
who served all those years ago, tragically, we are losing more and | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
more of them and they deserve their Acknowledgments, I am proud that we | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
will get them under this Government. Mr and Mrs Goodwin live in the | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
Caerphilly Borough, they are both registered blind and relied heavily | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
on guide dogs, family and neighbours. Life is not easy for | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
them. But on the 1st April, things will become even more difficult, | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
because they will have to pay the Government bedroom tax on their | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
home for 26 years. What justification can there be for | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
this? First of all, I will look at any individual case, the Department | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
of Work and Pensions will look at any individual case. But can I make | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
this point, this is not a tax. Eight taxes when someone earns | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
money, it is their money and the Government takes some of it away. - | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
- a tax is. The party opposite have to engage with the fact that | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
housing benefit accounts for �23 billion of government spending, a | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
50% increase over last decade. We have to address the fact that we | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
have 250,000 families in overcrowded accommodation and 1.8 | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
million people waiting for a Council axe. That is why it is not | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
surprising that the honourable gentleman on the front bench is | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
shouting, shameful, let him listen to what Labour's Housing Minister | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
said under the last government. He said, we have reiterated time and | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
again the need to ensure that houses that are too large for | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
people's current needs are allocated accordingly, that is what | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
they said in government but now when opposition all we get is rank | :45:29. | :45:39. | |
:45:39. | :45:43. | ||
Businesses in Yorkshire have full order books and the head of the CBI | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
has said the Yorkshire economy is turning a corner. Would he ignore | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
the poor advice from the party opposite? The British economy has | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
been through difficult times, not least because we are recovering | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
from a massive boom and bust, a massive banking bust and the | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
deepest recession since the 1930s. In terms of employment, in terms of | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
new business creation, you can see an economy that's rebalancing and | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
it's that rebalancing and that business growth that we need to | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
encourage. The Prime Minister has stood idly by while hard-pressed | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
families across the country have faced soaring energy bills, now | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
over �1400 a year. Last October, the Prime Minister promised to take | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
afrbgs. -- action. The country wants to know what is he going to | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
do now to keep his promise to those families who are struggling to heat | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
their homes? We are legislating to make sure that energy companies put | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
people on to the lowest tariffs. When that Bill comes in front of | :46:47. | :46:55. | |
the House of Commons, I hope she will vote for it. Will the Prime | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
Minister withdraw the National Health Service procurement patient | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
choice and competition regulations that seem to contradict assurances | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
given in the other place that this coalition Government will not | :47:05. | :47:13. | |
privatise our NHS? I would urge my honourable friend to look very | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
closely at these regulations because I think what he will find | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
is they are absolutely in line with the principles the last Government | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
put in place and actually, the effect of withdrawing the | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
regulations would actually mean that you have more competition in | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
the NHS, rather than managed competition, managed by monitor. I | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
think the effect of what he wants could be the exact opposite of what | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
he seeks. The Energy Secretary, the Deputy | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
Prime Minister, the committee on climate change, the chair of the | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
energy and climate change Select Committee and a group of over 35 | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
businesses NGOs and faith groups are among those who back the | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
inclusion of a target to decarbonise the power sector by | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
2030 in the Energy Bill. Can the Prime Minister explain why his | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
Government have failed to include such a target in the Bill? We don't | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
believe it makes sense to consider setting a target range for 2030 in | :48:13. | :48:20. | |
advance of setting the 5th carbon budget which covers the period. It | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
will be taking the power in the Energy Bill but setting it in | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
advance wouldn't make sense. 2008, Labour commissioned three | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
reports into the state of the NHS to celebrate its 60th birthday | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
party. We now know those reports were damming and raised issues such | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
as a dangerous target culture that was raised five years later. Those | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
reports were suppressed by the Labour Government. Had they not | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
been suppressed thousands of lives could possibly have been saved. | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
Will the Prime Minister join me in calling for an investigation as to | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
who exactly was responsible for suppressing those reports? I know | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
what my honourable friend has said and I will look carefully at the | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
issue she raises. The whole point about the Frances Report is we | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
should use this opportunity to say yes, of course we support the NHS | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
and its founding principles, but not everything in the NHS is right. | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
Where there is bad practice and where there are things going wrong, | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
we need to shine a very bright light at that and make sure not | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
only that we deal with it, but we also hold people to account for it, | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
as well. Further to the honourable member's question on the new | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
regulations laid down on 13th February, the Government gave | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
assurances that GP Commissioners would not be forced to put health | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
service at competitive tendering. The regulations go completely | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
against this. What is the Prime Minister's excuse for this? The GP | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Commissioners are not forced to put services out to competitive tender. | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
It's GP Commissioners and the point is it is going to be doctors making | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
the decisions about whether they want to expand choice and diversity | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
in the NHS. But I would say to the honourable lady, what is she | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
worried about, what's the Labour Party worried about? Isn't it the | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
case that there are lots of voluntary bodies, charities, the | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
hospice movement, organisations like Mind, like Whizz Kids in Tower | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
Hamlets that provide an amazing service for wheurpb with -- | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
children with wheelchairs. Let us have diversity, let us have choice, | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
make sure we are on the side of patients. Two-and-a-half years ago, | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
a nine-year-old from Glamorgan became the 9th person to die in a | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
river incident on a rafting exercise on a river. There appeared | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
to be blatant disregard to common sense health and safety standards. | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
Her parents have campaigned tirelessly for a criminal | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
investigation, improved standards and even funded witnesses to travel | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
to the Turkish courts but their efforts have been frustrated for | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
what appears to be bureaucratic reasons. Will the Prime Minister | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
work with the Turkish authorities to gain justice and help warn | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
people of the risks of white water rafting in Turkey? He is right to | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
raise this tragic case of a nine- year-old constituent of his who | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
died in 2010 in Turkey. I want to send my sincere condolences to the | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
family in these terrible circumstances. I know he's been | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
speaking to the Minister for Europe Europe regarding this. Our Embassy | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
in Turkey is monitoring the case and can approach the Turkish | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
authorities and ask them to keep the family fully informed of any | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
progress and I am sure the Foreign Office will have listened carefully | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
what what what he said today, standing up for this family's | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
interests. I have a vulnerable constituent, near pension age, | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
who's lived in the same house his whole life. His parents have now | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
died. He is willing to be rehoused but cannot find an alternative. He | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
now faces homelessness because he simply can't afford the | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
Government's bedroom tax. Can the Prime Minister explain why he has | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
prioritised a tax cut for millionaires whilst devastating the | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
lives of vulnerable people? point Wye make is there are 250,000 | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
families who live in overcrowded accommodation. There are 386,000 | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
people who live in underoccupied homes. There are 1.8 million people | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
who would love to have a council house who couldn't get one. Of | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
course we need to build more social homes and we are doing exactly that. | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
But in the meantime, we should do everything to make sure those homes | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
are used in the most efficient and fair way, that's what these changes | :52:45. | :52:53. | |
will help to achieve. That's why they deserve our support. We were | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
all hugely inspired by the wonderful Paralympic Games in | :52:58. | :53:05. | |
London last year. Not only a triumph for sport, but a triumph | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
for perceptions of disability. Will the Prime Minister welcome the | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
generation-inspired report which is going to be presented to Downing | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
Street today, as a great opportunity to use the legacy of | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
this to improve the lives of young disabled people? I will certainly | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
welcome the report my honourable friend mentioned. I thought the | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
Games were an absolute triumph for Britain, the way they were | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
put on and the way the auditorium and stadium were full for almost | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
every single event. It was a great testament to the generosity of | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
people of this country and their enthusiasm for Paralympic sports. | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
The important thing is the change in perception about what disabled | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
people are capable of and that's a real gift and something we should | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
encourage. The Prime Minister supports an exemption to the | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
bedroom tax for families of prisoners, but not for people with | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
cancer, people with disabilities, foster parents, or armed forces | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
families. Why? As the honourable lady knows there is a �50 million | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
found directly support people as part of this measure. We have | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
addressed very specifically the point about armed forces' families | :54:21. | :54:27. | |
where people leaving the home will be more than compensated for any | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
costs under occupancy rules. I come back to the bigger picture, which | :54:30. | :54:37. | |
is that housing benefit is up 50% in real terms, it now accounts for | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
�23 billion of public spending. I have to say to the party opposite, | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
if you come here week after week and you say no to the benefit cap, | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
no to capping housing benefit, no to restriking -- restricting growth | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
of benefits, people will simply not believe you have any plans to deal | :54:55. | :55:04. | |
with our deficit whatsoever and you know what, they'd be right. | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
Reeducation forms as pursued by this Government have been emgraced | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
by -- embraced by schools in Bedfordshire and by staff in one | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
school in pursuit of an academy. This week there has been a blip. A | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
school which had been offered free school status 14 months ago has | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
found as part of the Barnfields Trust, has found last week that's | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
been removed without knowing why. I wonder if the Prime Minister could | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
use his offices to implore the Department of Education to let me | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
snow stphp the reason -- to let me know know as soon as possible the | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
reason. I would join her in strongly supporting the free | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
schools movement. It's a remarkable advance that within just two-and-a- | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
half years we now have 101 free schools that are open, we have many | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
more in the pipeline. I know that my right honourable friend, the | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
Education Secretary, was listening very closely about the specific | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
proposal. It's obviously important we vet proposals to make sure | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
they're strong proposals for education, that they have parental | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
support, they'll raise standards in the local authority but I strongly | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
support the free schools movement and I am sure my right honourable | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
friend will be in touch with her. My own local authority have done | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
pioneering work over years on improving public health. They've | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
recently asked adults to refrain from smoking in children's play | :56:31. | :56:41. | |
areas. Does the Prime Minister agree with me one of his own health | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
Ministers - that we should go a step further and introduce a ban on | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
smoking where children are present in vehicles? I think we should look | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
carefully at what he and others have said. We are looking across | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
the piece at all the issues, about whether we should follow the | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
Australians with a ban on packaging, what more we can do on restricting | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
smoking in public places. -- there has been a real health advance from | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
some measures taken. We have to look at each oupb and work out | :57:10. | :57:17. | |
whether there is a real public benefit. He makes a good point. | :57:17. | :57:27. | |
:57:27. | :57:28. | ||
22 years since the landmark Medical Research Council report made a | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
direct link between - countries have fortified their basic food | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
stuffs but this policy is mired in bureaucracy between the Food | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
Standards Agency, the Department of Health and others. Will the Prime | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
Minister do everything he can and give reassurance to the House that | :57:44. | :57:53. | |
he will unblock this logjam to prevent the entirely preventable | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
conditions of spina bifida? It's true that levels of - conditions | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
like spina bifida have come down and it's true that folic acid has | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
an important role to play. In terms of the specific points and the | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
bureaucratic problem he identifies I will look at that and perhaps get | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
the Department of Health to write to him about it. With respect, I | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
make no apology for returning to an issue which my colleagues have | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
raised. A letter from my constituent said this, I am | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
disabled, wheelchair dependent, suffer from brittle bones, require | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
day and night assistance from social services, and therefore, I | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
need a spare room on health grounds. I feel suicidal about this bedroom | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
tax. Would the Prime Minister, consulting with the Secretary of | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
State for Work and Pensions, agree to put the needs of disabled people | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
first and revisit what's turning out for hundreds of thousands of | :59:00. | :59:07. | |
disabled people and their families, to be a disastrous policy? This | :59:07. | :59:12. | |
Government always puts disabled people first. That's why we have | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
protected disabled benefits, specifically on the issue that he | :59:16. | :59:23. | |
raises, there is the �50 million fund to support people affected by | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
the underoccupiesancy measure. Disabled adult - they don't want to | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
hear the answers. This directly answers the point. Disabled adults | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
will have access to discretionary housing payment scheme and it will | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
remain for local authorities like his own, to assess the individual | :59:37. | :59:44. | |
circumstances. It is worth making the point again, a �23 billion | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
budget, 50% increase over the last decade, we have to do something | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
about the growth in the housing benefit bill and all we hear is | :59:52. | :00:00. | |
irresponsibility from the party opposite. Who would have thought | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
when some of us voted for just a common market all those years ago, | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
that the EU would now be interfering potentially in what | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
benefits we should be paying to Romanians and Bulgarians before | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
they've made any contribution to our society? Is it any wonder | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
people feel disillusioned and powerless? Isn't the good news this, | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
who is more likely to vote to give people a genuine choice in a | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
referendum, a Liberal or a Conservative MP for Eastleigh? | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
delighted my honourable friend managed to slip that point in at | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
the end. I would urge any honourable friends who aren't there | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
already to make their way to Eastleigh this afternoon and | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
support Maria Hutchings in the campaign. The point that he makes | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
is very important, which is we need to look through every aspect of how | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
we welcome people to our country and make sure while we must be fair, | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
we must not be a soft touch. I am making sure we look at our health | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
service, we look at housing, at benefits, we look at legal aid, at | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
all of the things and make sure we have proper and tough controls on | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
people who want to come and live here. | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
The Treasury was required to approve the settlement made with a | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
dismissed former chief executive of my local hospital Trust in February | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
last year. If he believes in openness in the NHS, why has his | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
Government allowed this size of this pay-off to be kept secret? | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
will look closely at this issue that he raises. I know there have | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
been particular issues around foundation Trusts in the area which | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
he represents. I will make sure that the Health Secretary writes to | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
him about this issue. Recently large numbers of my constituents | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
have taken a great interest in political campaigning in the | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
neighbouring County. My belief is that it's always best if local | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
people have a strong independent voice, particularly if they're in | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
favour of controlling immigration, making welfare fairer, and an in- | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
out referendum. Does the Prime Minister agree with my advice that | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
the people of Eastleigh will be well advised to vote for Maria | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
Hutchings tomorrow? I want to thank my honourable friend for his hard | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
work and for the ingenious way he managed to get that question in | :02:31. | :02:41. | |
:02:41. | :02:46. | ||
If you have any luck in getting the honourable member for Rhondda to | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
shut up, do let us know how it's done! The Prime Minister Prime | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Minister shouldn't bother phoning me, I will phone him in those | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
circumstances. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Mr | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
Speaker. Perhaps we could end Prime Minister's questions on a similar | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
note to that which we began it with, recognising the appalling views of | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
the Labour candidate in Eastleigh. He said this about the Falklands | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
war, one of the proudest moments of this country's recent history, I | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
settled, he said, on the position of wanting Great Britain to lose a | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
war for the good of Great Britain. This candidate endorsed by the | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
leader of the Labour Party, a shocking lack of patriotism and | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
national pride. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister has run away from | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
the question as to whether he will personally benefit from the | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
millionaires tax cut. It's a simple question. When the top rate of tax | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
is cut from 50p to 45, will he personally benefit? The top rate of | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
tax under this Government will be higher than any year under his | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Government. That is the change that we are bringing about. When they | :03:58. | :04:06. | |
introduced the 50p they lost �7 billion in tax revenue. They're not | :04:06. | :04:16. | |
:04:16. | :04:28. | ||
only socialists, they're Iain Watson got it right, although | :04:28. | :04:36. | |
it was not that difficult! They went on the economy, we will talk | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
about that in a minute, it was the argument about the AAA rating, the | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
deficit, it was the sense that we have heard a lot of this argument | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
before and we probably will again in the future. It really only came | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
to light when the Prime Minister quoted the New Statesman magazine, | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
and the Leader of the Opposition attack did, which seemed strange. | :04:56. | :05:05. | |
It is a fine centre-left magazine we might talk about that in a | :05:05. | :05:14. | |
moment. What were the viewers saying? Jimmy from Nottingham said | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
that when David Cameron stonewalls the questions by asking more which | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
aren't answered by Ed Miliband, that is the question. The | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
politicians are just taking a turn to punch a wall. Another viewer | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
said that Ed scored an own goal with his New Statesman jibe, if he | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
can't land one blow on the Prime Minister today, you never will. Tom | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
from Rotherham says that neither Ed Miliband nor David Cameron have | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
grasped the fact that the credit ratings have no more substance than | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
a considered opinion. Diane from Cornwall said clearly the loss of | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
the AAA rating, though largely insignificant economically, is | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
dynamite politically, which Ed Miliband exposed eloquently. And | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
this from Marjorie, petty squabbling in the House of Commons | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
while Rome burns. I'm depressed about Britain's future. The level | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
of political debate is so squalid and I feel sorry for the Deputy | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
Prime Minister, he looks ill. On that note, let's turn to Iain | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
Watson. Give us some more of your penetrating prescience. Two things | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
struck me, the first was, as you alluded to, Ed Miliband got mugged. | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
His strategy was quite clear, let's go on the economy then say the | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
credit rating as part of a wider malaise surrounding the Government. | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
And interest rate -- interestingly trying to get onto the issue of | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
trust in the Prime Minister, waving around the Conservative manifesto | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
which promise to protect the credit rating. That was fine. Then | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
suddenly he almost walked into this trap. He said that you are scraping | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
the bottom of the barrel by quoting the New Statesman, Ed Miliband says | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
to David Cameron. Them the punchline, David Cameron says, this | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
was the magazine that supported you. In terms of the theatre, Ed | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
Miliband would not have got a victory, but in terms of wider | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
arguments, the Conservatives not sticking to their own promises. | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
Very briefly, as one of the e-mail suggested, Nick Clegg had not | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
looked well, but I was surprised at how restrained backbenchers were on | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
both sides. They mentioned Eastleigh but they did not spiral | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
them into the Liberal Democrats' current troubles. Is there not some | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
substance in the claimed that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls, despite | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
having an open goal on the economy, are having difficulty in getting | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
the ball in the back of the net? think the AAA rating is not the | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
thing, this was Osborne's test, but for me I think you need to talk to | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
families on the street, as I do all the time. For them, wages are | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
falling, prices are rising, how do they cope? Nobody in the coalition | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
seems worried. These are issues that quite absolutely resonate in a | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
way that, it was even said earlier, AAA might be a form of battery to | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
most people. Whether you can put food on the table or pay the Energy | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
Bill Matters. It is more relevant. And Osborne said it was so | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
important, when Labour said it was not, what is important is getting | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
growth back into the economy, because it is not happening. They | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
said about the deficit coming down, it is not. It is going up. Debt is | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
going up, borrowing is coming up. Their strategy has not worked. | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
Let's look at what is happening to people trying to feed their | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
families every day, that is really important. You've just done a | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
better job than Ed Miliband it. There is a tradition and a House of | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Commons, I said, the open goal has always missed. The expectation is | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
too high, it is too obvious, you almost pointing out which corner of | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
the let the ball is going into. I think Ed Miliband would have been | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
much better going on cost of living, it would have been much stronger | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
and less expected than the credit ratings argument. If we are trying | :09:25. | :09:34. | |
to do better than Miliband, let me have a go. David Davis, inflation | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
is 50% higher than target, real living standards have been squeezed | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
as never before and for longer than any time in 70 years, death a debt | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
reduction has stalled, that is a polite way of putting it -- deficit | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
reduction. There is no growth in the economy and your credit agency | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
rating has gone. What is going right? My view on this is that it | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
is very simple, we ought to have a Tory growth strategy. Let's not kid | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
ourselves, this started with an inheritance which was very hard to | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
deal with, namely the enormous deficit, the overspending over the | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
good times. That is a clear cause. You are now borrowing more than | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
Alastair Darling plan to, and your party said he was borrowing too | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
much. This solution requires an austerity programme which is | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
tougher than the one we have. We have had a lot of rhetoric about | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
austerity, we need a bit more reality. More cuts, I'm afraid, or | :10:31. | :10:39. | |
the same cuts faster. And the second half, the simple truth is if | :10:39. | :10:49. | |
:10:49. | :10:49. | ||
every 1% less on growth loses you on the deficit every year after. | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
Myself and John Redwood have said for years, there has been a need | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
for a growth strategy from day one, meaning lower taxes. It is the sort | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
of thing the Germans did in 2003 when they cut taxes in the middle | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
of a deficit problem unsolved the deficit. In the Times this morning, | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
John Redwood had an alternative plan to the Government. You have | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
admitted to me that not a lot has gone right with it. If there is no | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
change in the Budget, and there is no sign that there will be, for how | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
long will your backbench colleagues put up with current economic | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
strategy? They will, but they will be critical. It is interesting to | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
see what happens in the Budget. He has a narrow slot and he might well | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
start to think that some tax reductions are necessary in order | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
to get the growth under way. They must be getting unhappy? Of course | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
some of them are run happy. You don't see it on this, you see it on | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
the rather less watch debates on the House of Commons when people | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
are on their feet, but it is a real issue not just in this country but | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
virtually every Western country. They are failing to resolve this | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
problem. The Americans are, most Europeans are, obviously it's any | :12:12. | :12:22. | |
:12:22. | :12:23. | ||
is. It requires a much more robust, much bolder policy on taxation. | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
said that you were sure, despite the criticism, that Mr Cameron | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
would remain as Prime Minister until the end of the parliament. | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
Are you as Shearer by George Osborne remaining Chancellor? | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
are two halves of the same coin. are you as sure about George | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
Osborne. We were meeting people last night | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
associated with the parliament, we have a big audience in Brussels, it | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
was very encouraging to hear that. Not caught up in the ratings, | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
either! Should the European Parliament not consider a kind of | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Prime Minister's Questions to raise its profile? If it is like that | :13:04. | :13:14. | |
:13:14. | :13:19. | ||
I was trying to think of something diplomatic. I don't want to be in a | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
bear pit like that, what does that achieve? I am not sure what we | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
achieved by that. It keeps you in a job, yes, but does it inform the | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
debate. Do you not like PMQs? OK for a little bit of jousting, | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
but I don't think it moves the debate on. That is the way our | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
Parliament works, this one works differently, it is more about | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
consensus. That is why you see a lot more women. This is the way | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
women prefer to work. That is not the way most women like to work. | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
You should have asked Margaret Thatcher that question! You think | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
if we had more women and the British Parliament, and they are | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
still terribly under-represented, we would see less of what you call | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
the bear-pit? I would hope so. And I think it puts a lot of women | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
going into national politics, absolutely. Final thought? I think | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
the final thought would be... We managed to talk about a European | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
issue at the end, Romanian and Bulgarian immigration, it will be | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
interesting to see where that goes. David Cameron mentioned faster cuts, | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
I was wondering if that was faster than Labour, and an attempt to | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
appease people like David Davis. Thank you very much. | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
The Budget was coming up in a few weeks. | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
Deduce a pizza before? That is your imaginary friend. -- did you say | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
Peter? Back to the issue of Europe and | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
with the Conservatives continuing to dangle a possibility of an in- | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
out referendum after the next election, we should remember that | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
many European Parliament MEPs believe that Europe's next -- real | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
future lies in further integration. This is Sophie in 't Veld, a Dutch | :15:13. | :15:23. | |
:15:23. | :15:33. | ||
liberal, with her take on which way When European integration started | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
in the 50s right after two devastating world wars that tore | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
this continent apart, the purpose was very much to integrate nation- | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
states and make sure they would never make war on each other again. | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
Today, the challenges are a very different nature. The challenges | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
are a globalised economy, the challenges our energy, the | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
challenges are the competition for raw materials in the world. And | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
this is something that Europe needs to consider. If we want to preserve | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
our way of life, if we want to preserve our standard of living, | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
our quality of life, then we need to do it as a single consonant and | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
speak with one voice, that is why Europe needs to integrate further. | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
For decades, Europe has been shaped by diplomats who would come | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
together, diplomats from different countries negotiating and having an | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
exchange of national interests. But now Europe needs to become a fully- | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
fledged political union where citizens actually give a mandate to | :16:38. | :16:48. | |
:16:48. | :16:55. | ||
If we are to become this democratic political Union of citizens then we | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
need to develop into a community of citizens based not only a shared | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
interest but also shared values. The world today is going through | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
nothing short of a revolution comparable to the Industrial | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
Revolution. If the world is different, Europe needs to change | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
as well. We need to do it together, that is the only way that Europe | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
can preserve our quality of life, our way of life, in a changing | :17:20. | :17:30. | |
:17:30. | :17:33. | ||
And Sophie joins us now, alongside the UKIP MEP, Roger Helmer. You are | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
obviously in favour of further integration, do you want all EU | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
member states to join the single currency? Well, I don't think it's | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
up to me to tell member states what to do, but I think ultimately, it | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
would benefit us all if we have a single continent with a single, | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
strong currency that also provides protection against external shocks, | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
but obviously it is for, in this case, the British people to decide | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
whether or not they want to join. It's an interesting view, bearing | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
in mind the euro is in such a crisis and many in Britain say it's | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
a relief we are not part of the euro. How do you think it would | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
benefit stphus. The euro is not in a crisis. The euro has proven to be | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
remarkably stable and resill kwrept. We have a crisis of a different | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
nature, an economic crisis, a political crisis. It turned out we | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
didn't have the political, the governance instruments to reply to | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
respond to the economic turbulence coming at us a. But the euro is | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
very stable. I don't think we have a euro crisis. I think we are too | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
focused on internal matters. We are fairly obsessed with our belly | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
buttons and seem to forget the euro is not only an exchange instrument | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
between European countries, it's also a global currency, a reserve | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
currency. What do you say to that. I don't think Sophie is living in | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
the real world. We have had the euro crisis running like some | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
perverse soap opera for the last three years or so. We have large | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
parts of southern Europe in utter crisis. We lost the Bulgarian Prime | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
Minister recently, we all know about Greece. We have seen what's | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
happened in the Italian elections, which are mainly motivated by | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
unhappiness with austerity imposed from Brussels. The thing is a | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
crisis, no argument about it. The British people know that. The | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
British people would absolutely not contemplate joining the euro. | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
Haven't the Italians stuck two fingers up to austerity, austerity | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
imposed by Brussels? They may not be saying no to the euro but | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
they've said in a sense, no more, thank you very much. I fully | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
understand but you have to distinguish what is the cause and | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
what is the consequence. I think any country, including my own | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
country, we could not escape austerity even if we were outside | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
the eurozone. It's very simple maths. You cannot systematically | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
spend more than you earn. At some point you have to cut back or you | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
have to earn more, one way or the other. You have a 35% gap in | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
competitive... Let me finish, please. There are several ways out | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
of the debt crisis and economic crisis. Is further integration and | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
closer fiscal union one? If we have a shared currency, which we have, | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
then we also need to have the governance instruments to go with | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
it. Or we should choose not to have the currency. One or the other. | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
are halfway to a solution. You would need to make the euro work, | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
you would need fiscal integration, that would mean Germany sending | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
billions of euros to Greece and Italy and Spain, not on the odd ad | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
hoc bail out, but every year. The The German voters won't stand for | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
it. That solution will not and cannot work. The only solution, | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
actually, is to break up the euro, the question is when, how, and what | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
pattern we get afterwards. Further integration, is that what Labour | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
MEPs would like to see actually Britain encouraging more | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
integration with Britain part of it? Absolutely not. That's a | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
Liberal point of view. Our view is that we want strong member states, | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
working together on those areas where it's obvious that it's | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
helpful, like the environment, security. All of those, a single | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
market. There's lots of areas we should work together. We are not | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
federalists, we don't believe in that model. In order for there to | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
be prosperity again in Europe that's what has to happen, | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
otherwise this will continue. are two issues. One is what do you | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
with the eurozone countries that have obviously got to make changes | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
about how they manage their economies. I think it's a different | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
issue about Europe altogether. not a referendum, why is Labour | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
standing on the fence in terms of offering the British people a | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
referendum saying not now, it will create uncertainty but we are not | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
ruling it out, which also creates uncertainty? It Does create create | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
uncertainty to say in X number of years we will have a referendum. | :22:01. | :22:08. | |
British businesses will tell you that. I had a meeting with an | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
ambassador, it caused uncertainty for American companies. It's not | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
the right time. We have more things to do, getting the economy working. | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
Will a Conservative Prime Minister take us out of the EU? Depends what | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
the referendum says. What he won't do is take us no the euro. When it | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
was first founded we didn't join and opposed it for two reasons. One | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
was because it would amplify the shocks, the problems, the economic | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
problems that we had. Secondly, it would take away democratic | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
accountability from the nation states. You have seen that in Spain, | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
in Greece, in Italy, today, in Spain, in Portugal. We don't want | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
it. What do you make of the British position? I don't know what the | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
British position is, frankly. There are many different positions in | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
Britain. I think there is one very positive outcome of all this and - | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
of the whole crisis situation, never before have we debated so | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
much about the purposes, the merits or not of European integration and | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
how we want Europe to integrate. When European integration started | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
in the 50s, Europe was about 20% of the world population of then 2.5 | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
billion. Now the population is 7 billion and we are about 7%. We are | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
shrinking and ageing. If we want to preserve the position of Europe in | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
the world, we need to do it together. But we need to do it in a | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
democratic way. We have to stop there. Do you think Britain will | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
still be in the EU after the next election? I very much hope so. | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
Tkoeu think that we belong -- I do think that we belong together. | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
I bring us back to the Eastleigh by-election. Reports cominging out | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
there is a head of steam behind UKIP, what say you? I can endorse | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
that, I was there at the weekend. I am not going to make predictions, | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
it's a mug's game. People may well be surprised by the outcome and I | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
think we are we are doing very well, having said I won't make a predicts, | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
one I would make is I think we are going to get a record share of the | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
vote for UKIP in a by-election. number of your colleagues, senior | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
UKIP people, were telling us in private, that they thought you | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
would win Eastleigh. If we do, I shall drink a great deal of | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
champagne. I got that bit! Do you think you will win? We are in with | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
a chance. We know that, but do you think you will win? I am not | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
venturing... A strong word in private, why don't you say it in | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
public? If I believe we were going to win I would say we are going to | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
win. You know what it's like in politics, you make a prediction and | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
everybody holds you to it. I don't know whether we are going to win. I | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
hope we will. I have worked to that objective. We are in with a good | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
chance. People won't vote Labour, they know Labour's not going | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
anywhere. If they want to give the coalition a knock... We don't need | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
to go around the whole course! You sound like the football manager who | :25:02. | :25:12. | |
said I don't make predictions and I never will! Profound. | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
Now, the 754 MEPs who come here each week represent the second | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
largest democratic electorate in the world, after India. In order to | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
house all those MEPs you need a pretty big building. We sent Adam | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
on a little tour. Welcome to the European Parliament, | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
half a million square metres. The most exciting bit is where | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
parliament meets when it's not at its other seat in the French city | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
of Strasbourg. Sadly, we will not be seeing it today, because it's | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
closed for the foreseeable future after enormous cracks appeared in | :25:39. | :25:45. | |
the ceiling. Come with me on a search for alternative interesting | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
things in this findishly complicated building. | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
-- fiendishly. Every MEP gets their own peupblgial hole where -- pigeon | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
hole where papers are delivered. The only thing there's more of is | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
art. The walls of this place are covered in it. | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
The biggest piece is this one, by a Belgian sculptor. It's a sort of | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
hymn to European togetherness in stainless steel and runs through | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
the middle of the building. Then there is the fact there is | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
weird stuff just dotted around all over the place. Like this grand | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
piano donated by the people of Estonia to mark their country's | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
90th anniversary. Now, how does the Estonian national anthem go? | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
No. No, I have no idea what that sign means. | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
Running the various parliament buildings costs about a 10th of 1% | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
of the total EU budget. Around 190 million euros a year. It's also a | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
very open place. They'll let you film pretty much everywhere, | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
annoyingly, the only thing off limits are the bars and restaurants. | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
I can tell that you one of them is the Mickey Mouse bar. The chairs in | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
it are reminiscent of a certain Disney character. Sadly, they've | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
got rid of most of them now and these are museum pieces. | :27:22. | :27:30. | |
Talking of museums, there's one here called The Parliamentarian. | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
It's amazingly hi-tech. You can't come to a tourist | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
attraction without going to a gift shop. Giant chocolate euro, Andrew? | :27:42. | :27:51. | |
Jo, how about teabags in the shape of world leaders? A euro-shaped | :27:51. | :28:00. | |
money box. And a giant euro clock. He is good with the presents! Just | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
before we go, it's time to put you out of your misery and give you the | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
answer to Guess The Year. It was 2007. The winner is Sue Renyard | :28:10. | :28:20. | |
:28:20. | :28:23. | ||
from Fareham in Hampshire. Well done, Sue. That's it for today. | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
Thanks to our guests - especially David Davis and Glenis Willmott for | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
being our guests of the day. The news is starting over on BBC One | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
now. We'll be back in Westminster again tomorrow with all the big | :28:33. | :28:38. |