27/02/2013 Daily Politics


27/02/2013

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LineFromTo

Bonjour, and welcome to the Daily Politics live from the European

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Parliament in Brussels. Like Britain, the eurozone is mired

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in stagnation, crippled by debt, but in Brussels they were beginning

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to think the worst was over, to the Italian elections now mean the

:00:24.:00:34.
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eurozone is back in crisis? -- to The result touches us all, said the

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Spanish Foreign Minister in reaction to the Italian elections.

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We have jumped into the void. Italy is the big story of the week here

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in the European Parliament. By voting strongly against EU imposed

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austerity and electing a raft of Euro-sceptic politicians, the

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Italians have laid down the gauntlet to the Euro-elite here in

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Brussels. We will try to discover what happens next.

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David Cameron is promising an in- out referendum on our relationship

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with his place, but not until 2017. What do the men and women who work

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here make of that? We will be meeting one MEP who

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believes the way forward is more integration, not less.

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Trade that is fair rent free across the Atlantic supports millions of

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good paying American jobs -- fair and free.

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We will meet the man negotiating with President Obama on an historic

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trade deal between America and the And standby for the fire and fury

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of a Prime Minister's Questions the day before the most important by-

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election for 30 years. We won't be missing a moment of PMQs afternoon.

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That is all in the next hour-and-a- half live from this Ben Ali

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building in the European Parliament. Joining us both for the duration is

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one temporary exile from the Westminster village, David Davis, a

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former Foreign Office Europe Minister who famously whipped the

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Maastricht treaty through the House of Commons, to the chagrin of some

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of his colleagues on the Tory right - that is French, you know!

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And Glenis Wilmott of Labour, who leads her party's MEPs in the

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European Parliament. Bienvenue a vous deux.

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Let's get a bigger update on the big domestic story of the day, the

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whole Chris Rennard story. Vicki Young is our political

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correspondent. Nick Clegg has been doing his phone-in, what did he

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say? He must have been delighted to remember that he had half an hour

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of questions on the London station LBC, and Chris Rennard came up.

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Nick Clegg has slightly changed the story again. When he mentioned why

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Chris Rennard stood down in 2009 we were always told it was about ill-

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health, but today Nick Clegg said that have caused the allegations of

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inappropriate behaviour towards women were in the background. He

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also suggested that because he had just come in as leader, he wanted a

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change himself up the part of -- at the top of the party structure. But

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there seems to be again a change in the story which just keeps on going.

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After the discomfort of the phone- in, where do we go? We have heard

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from the women who have made the allegations, we have heard

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responses from Nick Clegg which has changed, what do we do now?

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party would like everybody to stop talking about it, they have Party

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investigations going on which they hope will get to the bottom of it,

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but the more they talk about it, the more the story changes, the

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more it will be covered. That could be a problem, especially with the

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very important by-election tomorrow. The problem they had originally was

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that the women involved in this did not want publicity, they thought

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the issue had been dealt with, Chris Rennard stood down, he had

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stepped from sight, but then they saw him upping his profile and I

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think they were worried he was trying to get back into a position

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of power. That is where it went wrong. But the party President Tim

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Farron has today said that the party led down these women and

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things need to be dealt with in the party structure and organisation.

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Tim Farron was the one who famously said that the party screwed up.

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By that, I think he meant Nick Clegg!

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David Davis, this has gone from being a sex scandal that does not

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seem to involve any sex, thank you, Lib Dems, for that, into a crisis

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of Mr Clegg's leadership. Will it impact the Eastleigh by-election?

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Hard to know, but I suspect not, in truth. People making by-election

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decisions tend to make them on local issues. But it certainly

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can't help their position or make the Liberal story on the door step

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even easier. -- any easier. In a by-election called because the

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sitting candidate is going to jail, fought in the middle of a

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leadership crisis for the Lib Dems, with you only a few thousand votes

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behind, if they -- if you can't win this, you can't win anywhere?

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That's true. It ought to be in our favour, but Lib Dems are

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notoriously difficult to remove. You have 39 or 40 councillors, they

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control the council entirely in the area. That is their army on the

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ground. I have had to do something like this in my own seat, it took

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10 years to basically eradicate my Lib Dem opposition. You say and

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eradicate, should we go there?! But you have said that if you can't win

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in Eastleigh you can't win anywhere. It would seem to me that if on the

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early hours of Friday morning we discover the Lib Dems have held on,

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despite all we have been talking about, we have gone from a crisis

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for Mr Clegg to a crisis for Mr Cameron. I am not sure about that.

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It has been discounted with the expectation that they will win. But

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the UKIP/Tory relationship, what that will be, that is much more

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likely to win back Tory MPs. UKIP does well and the Lib Dems

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hold onto the seat, and you come second or, maybe even, a terrible

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suggestion, third, I suggest there is another crisis for Cameron.

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think if we came third it would be a crisis, that is the case. A bit

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is a close second with UKIP on our tail, it would be pretty

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uncomfortable -- if it is a close second. It will not dislodge David

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Cameron, he will be there until the next election, but it will make

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things more uncomfortable. Glenis Wilmott, One nation Labour clearly

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does not include Eastleigh? It was always going to be an uphill battle

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in Eastleigh, but I think it says more about what is happening in the

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Conservatives, the Lib Dems and the coalition in general. People

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obviously don't have these in either party. It will be

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interesting to see what happens tomorrow. -- people don't have

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faith in either party. The if you are right and voters do not have

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faith in either coalition party, that means Eastleigh is precisely

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the kind of seat that oppositions should be winning. And you have

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said you would win seats outside your heartland, Eastleigh is not a

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Porsche, seven-seat, working-class, a former railway workers. -- is not

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a Porsche seven-seat. If you come forth, it is not good for Labour.

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A joke it did well in Italy, why can't they do well for Labour?

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don't think it is quite the same as in Italy! Why are people turning

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away from this Conservative-led government? Let's look at why

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Labour can't do well in a constituency like Eastleigh in the

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midst of an unpopular coalition government with living standards

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being squeezed higher than in any time since the 1920s. Why do you do,

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as the polls suggest, so badly? Let's see what happens tomorrow.

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The story here is that UKIP have taken so many boats from the Tories,

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which is a real crisis for David Cameron -- so many votes. That is

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the issue that David Cameron has tried to deal with when he has

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spoken about a referendum, it has not worked. If the viewers would

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like to see a full list of beastly candidates, and there are many of

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them, you can see them on the BBC website -- a full list of the

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Eastleigh candidates. The indecisive Italian election

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result has led to fears that political gridlock in the third

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largest eurozone economy could rekindle the European debt crisis.

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57% of Italians voted for and to austerity parties, and with the

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result an effective stalemate, shares and Italian banks fell 7% in

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value on Tuesday. The eurozone may have been out of the news recently

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but the economic picture remains bleak. Its economy shrank by 0.6%

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in the final quarter of 2012. Italy has barely grown for a decade. The

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European Commission has forecast a further 0.3% contraction across the

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whole of the EU in 2013. Continued uncertainty in its elite makes any

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wider recovery less likely. -- continued uncertainty in Italy. The

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commission says the average unemployment rate will reach 27% in

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Greece, 28.9% in Spain and 17.3% in Portugal -- 26.9% in Spain. This

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comes at a time when credit ratings agency Moody's has downgraded

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Britain's rating from 8882 A one. I am joined by Jane Foley, senior

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strategist at Rabobank. People would argue that losing the AAA

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credit rating is a blow for George Osborne, the markets may well have

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acted it in. But what is the long- term impact of losing the AAA from

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the UK? Relative to, say, five years ago, there is a new normal in

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the markets. The UK was not the first to lose AAA, the US lost

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theirs around 18 months ago and France lost theirs last year. So we

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have adjusted to what is a worse standard for economies. The other

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factor is that credit rating companies are only really

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reflecting the bad news that the markets already know about. There

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is not too much shock value year, but that is one difference in the

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UK, there is still a prospect that all three major credit ratings

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companies could potentially downgrade the UK by the end of, say,

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this quartet. The march Budget will be key in determining whether that

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happens. George Osborne could breathe a sigh of relief because of

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the stalemate in the Italian elections, it has somewhat

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overshadowed what has happened since Britain lost its AAA. Now the

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markets will be more spooked by what is happening in Italy.

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eurozone crisis, foreign international investment point of

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view, is much bigger than the UK credit rating outlook. Most people

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had anticipated that would happen anyway. These elections are

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potentially really very significant. Most people, from an economist

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point of view, most eurozone politicians, see the need for its

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elite to carry on with structural reform -- the need for Italy to

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carry on. But Italy has a very strong history of short-lived, weak

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coalition governments, that has been since the Second World War.

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There is a lot of voter apathy so many Italians do not take the

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elections that seriously, so consequently we have a stalemate

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position meaning that more structural reform looks really

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difficult. That is a problem for the eurozone and it serves as a

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reminder that the crisis in the eurozone is very much up and

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running still. Thank you, Jane Foley.

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Here in Brussels we are joined by the European commissioner for trade,

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Karel de Gucht. Welcome to the programme. The bail out for its

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elite agreed by the Commission and the ECB and so on was contingent on

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a number of austerity measures. -- the bail out for its elite. Well

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that bail out continue now that Italy has voted against austerity

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measures? I see no other option. It is a deliberate choice of the

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European Union that we continue to support its elite in its -- to

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support its elite to get back to normal economic growth. I would not

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call it a bail out. It was not a bail out. Italy has not been bailed

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out, we have been taking measures, the Italians have done so, Mario

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Monti has done so, so that the interest rates went down. In terms

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of the budget deficits for Italy this year, 2013, it will be a

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little bit above 2%. So we have quite a good result. We know that

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Italy could not get away with a huge number of bombs it needs to

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put into the market if the ECB was not standing behind it. -- the

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number of bombss. If they abandon the programme of Mario Monti, will

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the ECB continue to support existing measures? These questions

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are very interesting for journalists. This is not a

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hypothetical question. Italy has to bother 350 billion euros this year.

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-- has to borrow. Regardless of whether they stick with austerity

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or not, does the ECB continued to support that bond buying? Your

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question is hypothetical because Italy has not decided to abandon

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the austerity measures they have been taking in the past. People

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just voted against it. Yes, but first of all you need a government

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in the country which will change those decisions, and apart from the

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fact that it will not be easy to find the Government, I don't think

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you'll find a government that makes a way with those measures. In

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politics, the day before elections on the day after elections, the

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difference in between is much more If you continue with what I call

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the bail out, you want to choose a different word, it means the

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conditions you impose on bail outs don't matter and the Greece and the

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Portuguese and the Irish will be saying why are we doing it, as

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well? But that's why I say that they will continue those measures

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and you say 57% has been voting against Europe, that's not true.

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I said voting against austerity. But even that is not true. I happen

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to know Italy rather well and they have voted with their feet and they

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are simply fed up with Italian politics and then you could argue,

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but in the end, Berlusconi got quite a good result, yes, because

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people say look we don't like him, we don't trust him but at least he

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doesn't make us problems, you know. Then you have somebody like Monti,

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predecessor of mine who has been courageous in in taking these

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measures and if you demonstrate that kind of courage in politics

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you have to calculate it might well be that you are losing the next

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elections and that's what's happening with Mr Monti but doesn't

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say anything about whether his measures were right, his measures

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were right and you will see that in the future. Not according to the

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Italian people, I understand they may not matter in Brussels. Let me

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ask this, do you you accept those European Commissioners, your

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colleagues and others here who said the eurozone crisis was effectively

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over at the end of last year was wrong? I don't think what we have

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been saying is wrong. We were able to stop the cycle of the euro

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crisis because of the ECB saying clearly, look, we are going to do

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everything necessary to keep the eurozone together. That has not

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changed, you know. It is still in crisis, isn't it? You should

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realise, Sir, that the economic monetary union is monetary project

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but before all it's a political project and that will stay like

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that. It's not going to change because of an election in Italy and

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and then - are you then still a Democrat in all this? When you see

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the figures, the outcome of the Italian election, of course you

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have to respect that, but on the other hand, you should not be

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pleased with that and not look upon this as a demonstration of what you

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would call a good democratic practice, you know. That all of a

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sudden a quarter of the population is voting for somebody like Beppe

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Grillo, who seems to be a very good comic, tells something about the

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mood in that country and tells something about difficulties

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democracy is in and the difficulties democracy is in tells

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something about the courage you need at this present time to take

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tough decisions like Mario Monti has been taking. The European Union

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is beginning, is already under way with negotiations for a free trade

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deal with the United States, which is a big step for both the European

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Union and for the United States. What's the timetable on that and

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how confident are you that you will get a free trade deal?

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timetable, I think we should do it in a short period of time, that's

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also what the Americans have been saying, that it should happen on

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one tank of gas but the gas price went down considerably in the US.

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The American tanks are pretty big! That's what I mean. We should do it

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now, because there's no reason that you would have a better chance if

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you take more years and more time to do it. What's your timetable?

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am not going to nail myself down on timetable. I think ideally we

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should do it within this serve, in term of this college but of course

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- then you don't have much time, but don't nail me down on a

:20:13.:20:17.

timetable. Nail me down on a result and the result should be that it's

:20:17.:20:20.

really a big and deep and comprehensive trade deal that's

:20:20.:20:24.

giving a lot of oxygen to both our economies and that re-establishes

:20:24.:20:27.

our leading role in the world economy, that's what we are aiming

:20:27.:20:31.

at, you know. This will be a trade deal that will include the French

:20:31.:20:34.

agricultural sector? Of course and also the British one. Yeah,

:20:34.:20:38.

although you know the problems of the French one. We have already

:20:38.:20:42.

seen what the French agricultural Minister has said. They've said

:20:42.:20:47.

they're open to a deal but vigilant on agricultural matters. The French

:20:47.:20:51.

Minister for agriculture is not negotiating in the European

:20:51.:20:54.

Commission. We will take into account... They still have to

:20:54.:20:59.

approve it. All kind of considerations. You don't have a

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problem only with European agriculture, there's also very huge

:21:03.:21:06.

problem with the American agriculture. I understand that, but

:21:06.:21:09.

the American Agriculture Minister has said that everything in their

:21:09.:21:14.

sector is up for negotiation, as we have not yet heard that from the

:21:14.:21:19.

French. Let me ask this, if Britain was to leave the European Union and

:21:19.:21:24.

Mr Cameron is offering a referendum on that if he is re-elected in 2015.

:21:24.:21:29.

He is promising a referendum which will be in or out. If Britain voted

:21:29.:21:32.

to leave, would the European Union be prepared to negotiate a free

:21:33.:21:40.

trade arrangement with Britain? First of all, this is a statement

:21:40.:21:47.

about a period after the next legs. Secondly -- after the next election.

:21:47.:21:51.

Secondly, I haven't heard Mr Cameron saying he want to leave the

:21:51.:21:55.

union, the last two pages of his speech, he is... I didn't say that,

:21:55.:22:00.

I said he is offering a referendum and if the people were to vote to

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leave, would it be possible for Britain to negotiate a free trade

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arrangement with the European Union on the same basis as you would like

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to negotiate one with the United States? Europe is not a free lunch.

:22:13.:22:16.

Britain is part of the European Union. It's a very important member

:22:16.:22:20.

state. By the way, they have been playing a very important role, for

:22:20.:22:26.

example, in establishing internal markets, also in the enlargement to

:22:26.:22:30.

the eastern countries, so we want them to stay in, that's what we are

:22:30.:22:33.

going to work on and I am not going to pronounce myself on something

:22:33.:22:37.

that I think will never happen for a number of reasons. It will never

:22:37.:22:42.

happen, David Davis? That's a misjudgment. Depending on how the

:22:42.:22:46.

European authorities respond to attempts at renegotiating our

:22:46.:22:50.

membership, if there's a blank response I think there's a high

:22:50.:22:56.

chance that the British people will vote to leave. Commissioner?

:22:56.:23:01.

understood that you would have a referendum after a treaty change at

:23:01.:23:10.

conditions. Now you have said that we started talking about - also

:23:10.:23:16.

have been working that for 30 years, first in European Parliament,

:23:16.:23:19.

national Government and now in European Commission. I don't see

:23:19.:23:23.

any treaty change in the foreseeable future. Even though

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there are demands for much deeper fiscal union within the eurozone?

:23:31.:23:34.

There's difference between treaty negotiations, treaty change

:23:34.:23:37.

negotiations and treaty changes, that's not exactly the same, you

:23:37.:23:43.

know. It will be extremely difficult because we have to do

:23:43.:23:47.

that by unanimity and when you start a process there will not only

:23:47.:23:51.

be demands by Great Britain on the table but demands by almost all of

:23:51.:23:54.

the member states and that's why I personally - that's my personal

:23:54.:23:58.

opinion. I cannot see any treaty change in the foreseeable future.

:23:58.:24:05.

Probably if you have any time at any time a referendum in Great

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Britain, that's the Sovereign decision of Great Britain but I

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don't think it will be about treaty change. Commissioner, the way the

:24:13.:24:17.

Prime Minister has phrased this is we will have a renegotiation with

:24:17.:24:20.

the European Union about our our relationship which would require

:24:20.:24:24.

treaty change. Very fundamental parts would require treaty change.

:24:24.:24:30.

If that doesn't happen, then his stated aim of arguing to stay in

:24:30.:24:34.

will be completely undermined. If there's no change in our

:24:34.:24:37.

relationship with the Union, the odds of the British people voting

:24:37.:24:43.

to leave would be quite high. you are a democratic country. You

:24:43.:24:46.

are democratic people. If you vote to leave the European Union, that's

:24:46.:24:50.

your Sovereign decision. What I am arguing is that you have many more

:24:50.:24:55.

reasons to stay in than to get out. I believe that in the end people

:24:55.:25:01.

are rationale, you know. someone like yourself, who's a

:25:01.:25:05.

committed European and in any referendum would vote yes to keep

:25:05.:25:08.

Britain in, isn't there a problem that you have with the British

:25:08.:25:13.

people in that if you were to say to the British people Britain could

:25:13.:25:18.

have a free trade arrangement similar to what is being offered to

:25:18.:25:22.

the United States, most British people may say, I would rather have

:25:22.:25:25.

that, actually? It's difficult at the moment, because we haven't had

:25:26.:25:28.

a proper debate about why it's in Britain's interests to be part of

:25:28.:25:31.

Europe. I think the discussion on the referendum, whether I agree or

:25:31.:25:35.

not, is actually bringing that discussion to the fore. That's a

:25:35.:25:38.

good thing. I think once we get people from British businesses, as

:25:39.:25:41.

we have had, coming forward and saying why it's in British

:25:41.:25:45.

interests for us to have strong engagement in Europe, you see the

:25:45.:25:48.

whole term of the debate change and that's happened and that will

:25:48.:25:55.

continue to happen. I think when we have the debate proper... You would

:25:55.:25:58.

win the argument? We had the US saying how important it was, as

:25:58.:26:03.

well. I know we are not governed by the US but it's interesting how

:26:03.:26:07.

people's views change when people like that start coming and making

:26:07.:26:12.

the case. Final word, Commissioner. The Commission have personal

:26:12.:26:14.

congratulations because we are starting with negotiations with US

:26:14.:26:18.

and good reason for that, it will benefit very much to the UK, very,

:26:19.:26:23.

very much. Britain is a big supporter of a tree trade area with

:26:23.:26:26.

America -- free trade area with America. Commissioner, thank you

:26:26.:26:30.

for being with us. The EU may have won the Nobel Peace

:26:30.:26:34.

Prize recently - not a bad little trophy, that one - but there is one

:26:34.:26:36.

glorious gong, revered across the continent, that our European

:26:36.:26:41.

masters are yet to get their grubby hands on. Yes, that's right, the

:26:41.:26:44.

Daily Politics taza, tasse, kuppi, kopp or mug to you and me - and

:26:44.:26:50.

here's your chance to win it. We'll remind you how to enter in a minute,

:26:51.:27:00.
:27:01.:27:09.

but let's see if you can remember The Prime Minister is on his way as

:27:09.:27:19.
:27:19.:27:34.

we speak. Not long to wait for his There is a certain preshuplness in

:27:34.:27:44.
:27:44.:28:14.

To be in with a chance of winning that wonderful Daily Politics mug

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send your answer to our special e- mail address.

:28:19.:28:29.

You can see the full terms and conditions on our website.

:28:29.:28:33.

It's coming up to 1.00pm here in Brussels - and it is nearly midday

:28:33.:28:37.

back in London. Just take a look at Big Ben - and that can mean only

:28:37.:28:40.

one thing - yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its way. And that's

:28:40.:28:42.

not all, our political correspondent Iain Watson is here

:28:42.:28:48.

with us. The day before the by- election, loss of the credit rating,

:28:48.:28:52.

what's is Mr Miliband's tactic? is going to go on the economy,

:28:52.:28:56.

almost exclusively the economy, he is not going to get into the

:28:56.:29:04.

private grief of the Liberal Democrats. He wasn't doing well on

:29:04.:29:08.

the economy on Monday. They're aware of the risks. The first risk

:29:08.:29:14.

is AAA is a battery rating, so not a credit rating. Does break through

:29:14.:29:19.

to the wider public? The Moody's report on the downgrade there is

:29:19.:29:22.

ammunition there for the Government. For example, if you are cutting too

:29:22.:29:24.

far and too fast as they would suggest, they're saying there might

:29:24.:29:27.

be a further downgrade. They're also saying the economy is still

:29:27.:29:31.

quite competitive. So, there is some ammunition. He knows on its

:29:32.:29:35.

own this isn't going to be the silver bullet that kills off

:29:35.:29:39.

Conservative economic crediblity but he is going to portray it as a

:29:39.:29:45.

symptom of a wider economic malaise. I think he will try and get in

:29:46.:29:49.

these gas prices and profits, as well. That's the squeeze on living

:29:49.:29:54.

standards and people are hurting. Absolutely. The wider Labour

:29:54.:29:58.

strategists are saying they don't want this debate about the economy,

:29:58.:30:03.

they're not entirely winning. They want to move on to living standards

:30:03.:30:06.

and they know by the time of the next election living standards will

:30:06.:30:11.

certainly not be rising so they think that's better territory to

:30:11.:30:21.
:30:21.:30:26.

occupy. Thank you. Let's go to the Enact the 1984, when the Brighton

:30:26.:30:33.

bomb went off, I felt a surge of excitement at the nearness of

:30:33.:30:35.

Margaret Thatcher's demise, and yet a disappointment that such a chance

:30:36.:30:39.

had been missed. Those are the words of the Labour candidate in

:30:40.:30:44.

Eastleigh by-election. They are a complete disgrace and I hope the

:30:44.:30:52.

leader of the Labour Party will get up and condemn them right now.

:30:52.:30:59.

Mr Speaker, three years ago the Prime Minister had this to say, the

:30:59.:31:06.

first priority of any government has got to be keeping UK plc's

:31:06.:31:12.

credit rating, that has got to come first. It is the only responsible

:31:12.:31:17.

thing to do. Can the Prime Minister tell us, how was that going?

:31:17.:31:21.

First of all, isn't it amazing that the leader of the opposition will

:31:21.:31:26.

not condemn someone who apparently speaks up for terrorists? It isn't

:31:26.:31:30.

it absolutely disgraceful? He will have a second chance when he gets

:31:30.:31:35.

up again. But the decision of the ratings agency is a reminder of the

:31:35.:31:39.

debt and deficit problem that this country faces, and frankly it is a

:31:39.:31:44.

warning to anyone who thinks we can walk away from it. It is absolutely

:31:44.:31:47.

vital that we continue with the work of this government, that has

:31:47.:31:51.

cut the deficit by a quarter, has a million extra private sector jobs

:31:51.:31:56.

and interest rates at record low levels. I know it is still his

:31:56.:31:59.

policy to address excessive borrowing by borrowing more.

:31:59.:32:05.

I was asking about the country's credit rating, about the country's

:32:05.:32:10.

credit rating. This is what he used to say, that it was a mark of trust

:32:10.:32:15.

in our economy, that it was right up front and centre in our new

:32:15.:32:19.

economic model. And his manifesto published for the general election

:32:19.:32:24.

said this, safeguarding Britain's credit rating was the very first of

:32:24.:32:31.

his, and I quote, bench marks for Britain against which the British

:32:31.:32:35.

people can judge the economic success or failure of of the next

:32:35.:32:40.

government. So does the Prime Minister accept that by the first

:32:40.:32:44.

Test he set himself, he has failed? If there is a problem of excessive

:32:44.:32:50.

borrowing, why is it his policy to borrow moult? That is the question

:32:50.:32:56.

he simply has to answer. -- why is it his policy to borrow more? The

:32:56.:32:59.

credit ratings agency Moody's says that Moody's could also downgrade

:32:59.:33:03.

the UK government debt rating further in the event of reduced

:33:03.:33:07.

political commitment to fiscal consolidation. On this side of the

:33:08.:33:12.

house, we know that is the vital work we have to do. Will he finally

:33:12.:33:17.

admits that he is in favour of more borrowing? Admit it. You always

:33:18.:33:21.

know when he starts asking me questions that you can't answer

:33:21.:33:28.

questions about his own record. -- that he can't answer question. A

:33:28.:33:31.

part-time Chancellor said it would be a humiliation for Britain to

:33:31.:33:38.

lose its AAA credit rating -- the part-time Chancellor. I know the

:33:38.:33:44.

Prime Minister is not big on humility, but is manifested it

:33:44.:33:50.

promise he would be accountable and open. -- his manifesto did promise.

:33:50.:33:55.

Yes or no, has he failed the first Economic test that he set out in

:33:55.:34:02.

this manifesto? I'm not arguing for one moment that

:34:02.:34:07.

the rating agency doesn't matter, that is his argument. His argument

:34:07.:34:11.

is the rating agency does not matter, his answer to debt is to

:34:11.:34:15.

borrow more and not take responsibility for the mess they

:34:15.:34:20.

left. This Government has cut the deficit by a quarter, has a million

:34:20.:34:23.

extra private sector jobs and lower interest rates which are vital for

:34:23.:34:28.

the future of the economy. If he wants to see those economies which

:34:28.:34:33.

maintain their AAA rating, they are countries like Canada and Germany,

:34:33.:34:37.

who fix the roof when the sun was shining. Why doesn't he admits that

:34:38.:34:42.

his answer to extra borrowing is to borrow more? Have another go, admit

:34:42.:34:51.

it. Anytime you want to swap places, I will gladly answer the questions!

:34:51.:34:55.

And he talks about borrowing, I don't know when the last time he

:34:55.:35:02.

checked was, the deficit is rising, not falling this year. And he is

:35:02.:35:06.

borrowing �212 billion more than he planned because of his failure to

:35:07.:35:12.

grow the economy. Let's turn to the reasons for the downgrade. Can we

:35:12.:35:16.

take it from his answers so far that he really believes that this

:35:16.:35:21.

loss of the country's AAA status, which he set as the test, has

:35:21.:35:26.

nothing to do with him? I'm the one saying his credit

:35:26.:35:30.

rating does matter, and it demonstrates we have to go further

:35:30.:35:34.

and faster are reducing the deficit. But the very fact he won't answer

:35:34.:35:38.

the question about wanting to borrow more, he will never sit on

:35:38.:35:41.

this side of a house but he won't answer the questions about what the

:35:41.:35:46.

country needs to do. If you want to look at what is happening in the

:35:46.:35:50.

economy, isn't it interesting that he doesn't mention the other

:35:50.:35:56.

economic news from last week, 154,000 extra people in work, more

:35:56.:36:00.

people in employment than any time in our history, youth unemployment

:36:00.:36:03.

down since the election, unemployment down since the

:36:03.:36:08.

election, that is what is happening in our economy, but he can't

:36:08.:36:11.

recognise it. When will he admit that we should never listen to

:36:12.:36:17.

someone who sold the Gold, who bossed the banks, who racked up the

:36:17.:36:20.

deficit and can't say sorry for any of it?

:36:20.:36:24.

I think we can take it from that answer that he can't accept the

:36:24.:36:29.

simple fact that he has failed on the first Test he set himself and

:36:29.:36:34.

it is his fault, it has happened on his watch. And borrowing is rising

:36:34.:36:38.

under him. Even after all the pain of the tax rises, all the spending

:36:38.:36:43.

cuts, borrowing is rising, because the part-time Chancellor's plan is

:36:43.:36:48.

failing. The truth is that they are the last people left who think

:36:49.:36:52.

their plan is working and the failure is nothing to do with them.

:36:52.:36:57.

We have 1 million young people... The Education Secretary calls out

:36:57.:37:02.

that is not true, maybe he believes that, but behind the scenes he is

:37:03.:37:09.

briefing against the Chancellor! Maybe they should swap places! We

:37:09.:37:13.

have 1 million young people out of work, the deficit is rising, not

:37:13.:37:17.

falling, the economy is flatlining. What further evidence does he need

:37:18.:37:22.

that his plan is not working? examine the points he has made, he

:37:22.:37:27.

says the deficit is up, it is down by a quarter since the election. He

:37:28.:37:32.

said we don't have support for our plan, the CBI, the biggest business

:37:32.:37:36.

association in the country, says we have the right plan for growth. He

:37:36.:37:40.

complains about unemployment, it is down on the election and a record

:37:40.:37:44.

number are in work. Those are the facts. Now let us examine his

:37:44.:37:48.

policy, the fact that the New Statesman, the in-house magazine of

:37:49.:37:52.

the Labour Party, says this, his critique of the Government's

:37:52.:37:56.

strategy will never win back public trust, his proposals for the

:37:56.:38:00.

economy will never convince, his credibility problem will only

:38:00.:38:05.

become magnified as the general election progresses. That is the

:38:05.:38:10.

New Statesman! With the greatest of respect to the New Statesman, he is

:38:10.:38:20.
:38:20.:38:31.

All we have heard today... Order, order, order! You are excitable

:38:32.:38:36.

fellow! It is not very statesmanlike, calm yourself! Mr Ed

:38:36.:38:43.

Miliband. All we have heard today is a Prime Minister who refuses to

:38:43.:38:47.

accept that he has failed on the central test he set himself, who

:38:47.:38:52.

has failed to meet the first Test he set for himself. It is not just

:38:52.:38:57.

our credit rating downgraded, we have a downgraded government, a

:38:57.:39:02.

downgraded chance land are downgraded Prime Minister. --

:39:02.:39:06.

downgraded Chancellor and a downgraded Prime Minister. If the

:39:06.:39:10.

New Statesman is scraping the barrel, it was the only newspaper

:39:10.:39:20.
:39:20.:39:21.

which endorsed his leadership! I have to say... LAUGHTER AND

:39:21.:39:25.

SHOUTING. In this Oscar week, perhaps the

:39:25.:39:29.

best we can say is that Daniel Day- Lewis was utterly convincing as

:39:29.:39:33.

Abraham Lincoln, and the right honourable gentleman is utterly

:39:33.:39:39.

convincing as Gordon Brown. More borrowing, more spending, more debt.

:39:40.:39:45.

Andrew Jones! In 10 years running Harrogate

:39:46.:39:49.

Borough Council, the Conservatives have cleared to the �19.6 million

:39:49.:39:54.

of debt left by the Liberal Democrats and have enabled a

:39:55.:39:59.

council tax freeze. Does the Prime Minister show that this shows the -

:39:59.:40:03.

- does the Prime Minister agree that this show us the wisdom to

:40:03.:40:07.

tackling debt and anything else is the road to ruin? It is worth

:40:07.:40:11.

recognising that when it comes to finding efficiencies and value for

:40:11.:40:14.

money, local government has an excellent record and we should

:40:14.:40:18.

really say that in this place, they have a good record of paying down

:40:18.:40:23.

debt, dealing with deficit and being refashioned. That reduces

:40:23.:40:30.

your debt interest charges. -- and being efficient.

:40:30.:40:36.

Next month a big event alongside the Budget will be the champions

:40:36.:40:42.

Wales playing England at the Millennium Stadium. HEAR, HEAR!

:40:42.:40:45.

Does the Prime Minister have the same confidence in England winning

:40:45.:40:49.

the Triple Crown as his Chancellor had in retaining the AAA credit

:40:49.:40:54.

rating? And as team manager, does he intend to change his economic

:40:54.:41:01.

team to avoid further humiliation and a triple dip recession? There

:41:01.:41:04.

is a difficult record with prime ministers endorsing various rugby

:41:04.:41:09.

or football teams, so I won't plan to do that, but I am very proud of

:41:09.:41:12.

the fact that on St David's Day the Welsh flag will be flying above

:41:12.:41:16.

Downing Street, as it should be, and when it comes to the rugby, may

:41:17.:41:26.
:41:27.:41:28.

the best team win. Has My right honourable friend

:41:28.:41:33.

noticed that, in common with the United States and Japan, we lost

:41:33.:41:36.

our to play staters, that the cost of our international borrowing has

:41:36.:41:45.

actually fallen? -- lost our AAA status. I don't deny for one second

:41:45.:41:48.

the importance of the ratings agencies, but the most important

:41:48.:41:53.

test of credibility which you face day-in, day-out in the market, is

:41:53.:41:58.

the rate of interest at which you borrow, and our rate of interest is

:41:58.:42:02.

still at record lows. It has gone down since the elections where it

:42:02.:42:06.

has gone up in many other countries. If we listen to the party opposite,

:42:06.:42:12.

it would go up again. The Prime Minister will be aware of

:42:12.:42:15.

an increased need for food banks in constituencies like mine brought

:42:15.:42:21.

about by his Government's failed policies. Will he sign a my

:42:21.:42:25.

petition calling for action so that no family in the UK goes hungry due

:42:25.:42:31.

to his policies? I was certainly look at his petition. First of all,

:42:31.:42:35.

the use of food banks went up tenfold under the last Labour

:42:36.:42:40.

government. But a very important change the maid, asked for by the

:42:40.:42:44.

Trussel Trust, which does so much to promote the work of food banks,

:42:44.:42:48.

was to allow them to be advertised in JobCentres. The last government

:42:48.:42:52.

didn't do that because they were worried about the PR. We put people

:42:52.:42:58.

ahead of public relations. This week, the generation that

:42:58.:43:02.

fought in the Arctic convoy and Bomber Command, who died in the

:43:02.:43:07.

Second World War, have finally been recognised. Does my right

:43:07.:43:11.

honourable friend agree with me that it is right that we remember

:43:11.:43:18.

the 3000 sailors and the 55,000 their lives for the freedom of this

:43:18.:43:21.

country? It is right to raise this issue and I am sure there will be

:43:21.:43:24.

support right across the House of Commons for those who do parts in

:43:24.:43:28.

the Arctic convoys and all those who served in Bomber Command. It is

:43:28.:43:33.

not enough to have the excellent memorial to those who served in

:43:33.:43:37.

Bomber Command in Green Park, it is right that we have the medal for

:43:37.:43:42.

Arctic convoy and the class four Bomber Command. It is very

:43:42.:43:46.

important that we hand these out as quickly as possible, because people

:43:46.:43:50.

who served all those years ago, tragically, we are losing more and

:43:50.:43:54.

more of them and they deserve their Acknowledgments, I am proud that we

:43:54.:44:00.

will get them under this Government. Mr and Mrs Goodwin live in the

:44:00.:44:04.

Caerphilly Borough, they are both registered blind and relied heavily

:44:04.:44:08.

on guide dogs, family and neighbours. Life is not easy for

:44:09.:44:13.

them. But on the 1st April, things will become even more difficult,

:44:13.:44:18.

because they will have to pay the Government bedroom tax on their

:44:18.:44:21.

home for 26 years. What justification can there be for

:44:21.:44:27.

this? First of all, I will look at any individual case, the Department

:44:27.:44:32.

of Work and Pensions will look at any individual case. But can I make

:44:32.:44:36.

this point, this is not a tax. Eight taxes when someone earns

:44:36.:44:41.

money, it is their money and the Government takes some of it away. -

:44:41.:44:47.

- a tax is. The party opposite have to engage with the fact that

:44:47.:44:52.

housing benefit accounts for �23 billion of government spending, a

:44:52.:44:58.

50% increase over last decade. We have to address the fact that we

:44:58.:45:01.

have 250,000 families in overcrowded accommodation and 1.8

:45:01.:45:06.

million people waiting for a Council axe. That is why it is not

:45:06.:45:09.

surprising that the honourable gentleman on the front bench is

:45:09.:45:14.

shouting, shameful, let him listen to what Labour's Housing Minister

:45:14.:45:18.

said under the last government. He said, we have reiterated time and

:45:18.:45:23.

again the need to ensure that houses that are too large for

:45:23.:45:25.

people's current needs are allocated accordingly, that is what

:45:25.:45:29.

they said in government but now when opposition all we get is rank

:45:29.:45:39.
:45:39.:45:43.

Businesses in Yorkshire have full order books and the head of the CBI

:45:43.:45:48.

has said the Yorkshire economy is turning a corner. Would he ignore

:45:48.:45:55.

the poor advice from the party opposite? The British economy has

:45:55.:45:58.

been through difficult times, not least because we are recovering

:45:58.:46:05.

from a massive boom and bust, a massive banking bust and the

:46:05.:46:08.

deepest recession since the 1930s. In terms of employment, in terms of

:46:08.:46:13.

new business creation, you can see an economy that's rebalancing and

:46:13.:46:15.

it's that rebalancing and that business growth that we need to

:46:16.:46:22.

encourage. The Prime Minister has stood idly by while hard-pressed

:46:22.:46:26.

families across the country have faced soaring energy bills, now

:46:26.:46:32.

over �1400 a year. Last October, the Prime Minister promised to take

:46:32.:46:35.

afrbgs. -- action. The country wants to know what is he going to

:46:35.:46:38.

do now to keep his promise to those families who are struggling to heat

:46:38.:46:43.

their homes? We are legislating to make sure that energy companies put

:46:43.:46:47.

people on to the lowest tariffs. When that Bill comes in front of

:46:47.:46:55.

the House of Commons, I hope she will vote for it. Will the Prime

:46:55.:46:57.

Minister withdraw the National Health Service procurement patient

:46:57.:47:02.

choice and competition regulations that seem to contradict assurances

:47:02.:47:05.

given in the other place that this coalition Government will not

:47:05.:47:13.

privatise our NHS? I would urge my honourable friend to look very

:47:13.:47:16.

closely at these regulations because I think what he will find

:47:16.:47:20.

is they are absolutely in line with the principles the last Government

:47:20.:47:24.

put in place and actually, the effect of withdrawing the

:47:24.:47:28.

regulations would actually mean that you have more competition in

:47:28.:47:33.

the NHS, rather than managed competition, managed by monitor. I

:47:33.:47:36.

think the effect of what he wants could be the exact opposite of what

:47:36.:47:44.

he seeks. The Energy Secretary, the Deputy

:47:44.:47:48.

Prime Minister, the committee on climate change, the chair of the

:47:48.:47:54.

energy and climate change Select Committee and a group of over 35

:47:54.:47:56.

businesses NGOs and faith groups are among those who back the

:47:56.:48:01.

inclusion of a target to decarbonise the power sector by

:48:01.:48:05.

2030 in the Energy Bill. Can the Prime Minister explain why his

:48:05.:48:08.

Government have failed to include such a target in the Bill? We don't

:48:08.:48:13.

believe it makes sense to consider setting a target range for 2030 in

:48:13.:48:20.

advance of setting the 5th carbon budget which covers the period. It

:48:20.:48:23.

will be taking the power in the Energy Bill but setting it in

:48:24.:48:30.

advance wouldn't make sense. 2008, Labour commissioned three

:48:30.:48:34.

reports into the state of the NHS to celebrate its 60th birthday

:48:34.:48:38.

party. We now know those reports were damming and raised issues such

:48:38.:48:43.

as a dangerous target culture that was raised five years later. Those

:48:43.:48:47.

reports were suppressed by the Labour Government. Had they not

:48:47.:48:51.

been suppressed thousands of lives could possibly have been saved.

:48:51.:48:56.

Will the Prime Minister join me in calling for an investigation as to

:48:56.:49:02.

who exactly was responsible for suppressing those reports? I know

:49:02.:49:05.

what my honourable friend has said and I will look carefully at the

:49:05.:49:10.

issue she raises. The whole point about the Frances Report is we

:49:10.:49:13.

should use this opportunity to say yes, of course we support the NHS

:49:13.:49:18.

and its founding principles, but not everything in the NHS is right.

:49:18.:49:21.

Where there is bad practice and where there are things going wrong,

:49:21.:49:24.

we need to shine a very bright light at that and make sure not

:49:24.:49:27.

only that we deal with it, but we also hold people to account for it,

:49:28.:49:34.

as well. Further to the honourable member's question on the new

:49:34.:49:40.

regulations laid down on 13th February, the Government gave

:49:40.:49:44.

assurances that GP Commissioners would not be forced to put health

:49:44.:49:47.

service at competitive tendering. The regulations go completely

:49:47.:49:54.

against this. What is the Prime Minister's excuse for this? The GP

:49:54.:49:57.

Commissioners are not forced to put services out to competitive tender.

:49:57.:50:02.

It's GP Commissioners and the point is it is going to be doctors making

:50:02.:50:06.

the decisions about whether they want to expand choice and diversity

:50:06.:50:11.

in the NHS. But I would say to the honourable lady, what is she

:50:11.:50:13.

worried about, what's the Labour Party worried about? Isn't it the

:50:13.:50:18.

case that there are lots of voluntary bodies, charities, the

:50:18.:50:25.

hospice movement, organisations like Mind, like Whizz Kids in Tower

:50:25.:50:29.

Hamlets that provide an amazing service for wheurpb with --

:50:29.:50:34.

children with wheelchairs. Let us have diversity, let us have choice,

:50:34.:50:40.

make sure we are on the side of patients. Two-and-a-half years ago,

:50:40.:50:45.

a nine-year-old from Glamorgan became the 9th person to die in a

:50:45.:50:48.

river incident on a rafting exercise on a river. There appeared

:50:48.:50:53.

to be blatant disregard to common sense health and safety standards.

:50:53.:50:57.

Her parents have campaigned tirelessly for a criminal

:50:57.:51:00.

investigation, improved standards and even funded witnesses to travel

:51:00.:51:03.

to the Turkish courts but their efforts have been frustrated for

:51:03.:51:07.

what appears to be bureaucratic reasons. Will the Prime Minister

:51:07.:51:12.

work with the Turkish authorities to gain justice and help warn

:51:12.:51:17.

people of the risks of white water rafting in Turkey? He is right to

:51:17.:51:23.

raise this tragic case of a nine- year-old constituent of his who

:51:23.:51:28.

died in 2010 in Turkey. I want to send my sincere condolences to the

:51:28.:51:31.

family in these terrible circumstances. I know he's been

:51:31.:51:34.

speaking to the Minister for Europe Europe regarding this. Our Embassy

:51:35.:51:37.

in Turkey is monitoring the case and can approach the Turkish

:51:37.:51:41.

authorities and ask them to keep the family fully informed of any

:51:41.:51:45.

progress and I am sure the Foreign Office will have listened carefully

:51:45.:51:48.

what what what he said today, standing up for this family's

:51:48.:51:52.

interests. I have a vulnerable constituent, near pension age,

:51:52.:51:56.

who's lived in the same house his whole life. His parents have now

:51:56.:51:59.

died. He is willing to be rehoused but cannot find an alternative. He

:52:00.:52:03.

now faces homelessness because he simply can't afford the

:52:03.:52:09.

Government's bedroom tax. Can the Prime Minister explain why he has

:52:09.:52:13.

prioritised a tax cut for millionaires whilst devastating the

:52:13.:52:19.

lives of vulnerable people? point Wye make is there are 250,000

:52:19.:52:24.

families who live in overcrowded accommodation. There are 386,000

:52:24.:52:29.

people who live in underoccupied homes. There are 1.8 million people

:52:29.:52:32.

who would love to have a council house who couldn't get one. Of

:52:32.:52:37.

course we need to build more social homes and we are doing exactly that.

:52:37.:52:40.

But in the meantime, we should do everything to make sure those homes

:52:40.:52:45.

are used in the most efficient and fair way, that's what these changes

:52:45.:52:53.

will help to achieve. That's why they deserve our support. We were

:52:53.:52:58.

all hugely inspired by the wonderful Paralympic Games in

:52:58.:53:05.

London last year. Not only a triumph for sport, but a triumph

:53:05.:53:11.

for perceptions of disability. Will the Prime Minister welcome the

:53:11.:53:17.

generation-inspired report which is going to be presented to Downing

:53:17.:53:20.

Street today, as a great opportunity to use the legacy of

:53:20.:53:25.

this to improve the lives of young disabled people? I will certainly

:53:25.:53:29.

welcome the report my honourable friend mentioned. I thought the

:53:29.:53:33.

Games were an absolute triumph for Britain, the way they were

:53:33.:53:38.

put on and the way the auditorium and stadium were full for almost

:53:38.:53:41.

every single event. It was a great testament to the generosity of

:53:41.:53:46.

people of this country and their enthusiasm for Paralympic sports.

:53:46.:53:49.

The important thing is the change in perception about what disabled

:53:49.:53:53.

people are capable of and that's a real gift and something we should

:53:53.:53:58.

encourage. The Prime Minister supports an exemption to the

:53:58.:54:03.

bedroom tax for families of prisoners, but not for people with

:54:03.:54:08.

cancer, people with disabilities, foster parents, or armed forces

:54:08.:54:14.

families. Why? As the honourable lady knows there is a �50 million

:54:14.:54:18.

found directly support people as part of this measure. We have

:54:18.:54:21.

addressed very specifically the point about armed forces' families

:54:21.:54:27.

where people leaving the home will be more than compensated for any

:54:27.:54:30.

costs under occupancy rules. I come back to the bigger picture, which

:54:30.:54:37.

is that housing benefit is up 50% in real terms, it now accounts for

:54:37.:54:41.

�23 billion of public spending. I have to say to the party opposite,

:54:41.:54:45.

if you come here week after week and you say no to the benefit cap,

:54:45.:54:51.

no to capping housing benefit, no to restriking -- restricting growth

:54:51.:54:55.

of benefits, people will simply not believe you have any plans to deal

:54:55.:55:04.

with our deficit whatsoever and you know what, they'd be right.

:55:04.:55:08.

Reeducation forms as pursued by this Government have been emgraced

:55:08.:55:14.

by -- embraced by schools in Bedfordshire and by staff in one

:55:14.:55:19.

school in pursuit of an academy. This week there has been a blip. A

:55:19.:55:23.

school which had been offered free school status 14 months ago has

:55:23.:55:27.

found as part of the Barnfields Trust, has found last week that's

:55:27.:55:32.

been removed without knowing why. I wonder if the Prime Minister could

:55:32.:55:38.

use his offices to implore the Department of Education to let me

:55:38.:55:44.

snow stphp the reason -- to let me know know as soon as possible the

:55:44.:55:47.

reason. I would join her in strongly supporting the free

:55:47.:55:51.

schools movement. It's a remarkable advance that within just two-and-a-

:55:51.:55:55.

half years we now have 101 free schools that are open, we have many

:55:55.:56:01.

more in the pipeline. I know that my right honourable friend, the

:56:01.:56:04.

Education Secretary, was listening very closely about the specific

:56:04.:56:07.

proposal. It's obviously important we vet proposals to make sure

:56:07.:56:10.

they're strong proposals for education, that they have parental

:56:10.:56:13.

support, they'll raise standards in the local authority but I strongly

:56:13.:56:17.

support the free schools movement and I am sure my right honourable

:56:17.:56:23.

friend will be in touch with her. My own local authority have done

:56:23.:56:26.

pioneering work over years on improving public health. They've

:56:26.:56:31.

recently asked adults to refrain from smoking in children's play

:56:31.:56:41.

areas. Does the Prime Minister agree with me one of his own health

:56:41.:56:45.

Ministers - that we should go a step further and introduce a ban on

:56:45.:56:49.

smoking where children are present in vehicles? I think we should look

:56:50.:56:54.

carefully at what he and others have said. We are looking across

:56:54.:56:58.

the piece at all the issues, about whether we should follow the

:56:58.:57:03.

Australians with a ban on packaging, what more we can do on restricting

:57:03.:57:07.

smoking in public places. -- there has been a real health advance from

:57:07.:57:10.

some measures taken. We have to look at each oupb and work out

:57:10.:57:17.

whether there is a real public benefit. He makes a good point.

:57:17.:57:27.
:57:27.:57:28.

22 years since the landmark Medical Research Council report made a

:57:28.:57:32.

direct link between - countries have fortified their basic food

:57:32.:57:37.

stuffs but this policy is mired in bureaucracy between the Food

:57:37.:57:40.

Standards Agency, the Department of Health and others. Will the Prime

:57:40.:57:44.

Minister do everything he can and give reassurance to the House that

:57:44.:57:53.

he will unblock this logjam to prevent the entirely preventable

:57:54.:57:58.

conditions of spina bifida? It's true that levels of - conditions

:57:58.:58:03.

like spina bifida have come down and it's true that folic acid has

:58:03.:58:07.

an important role to play. In terms of the specific points and the

:58:07.:58:11.

bureaucratic problem he identifies I will look at that and perhaps get

:58:11.:58:17.

the Department of Health to write to him about it. With respect, I

:58:17.:58:20.

make no apology for returning to an issue which my colleagues have

:58:20.:58:26.

raised. A letter from my constituent said this, I am

:58:26.:58:31.

disabled, wheelchair dependent, suffer from brittle bones, require

:58:31.:58:36.

day and night assistance from social services, and therefore, I

:58:36.:58:43.

need a spare room on health grounds. I feel suicidal about this bedroom

:58:43.:58:47.

tax. Would the Prime Minister, consulting with the Secretary of

:58:47.:58:53.

State for Work and Pensions, agree to put the needs of disabled people

:58:53.:59:00.

first and revisit what's turning out for hundreds of thousands of

:59:00.:59:07.

disabled people and their families, to be a disastrous policy? This

:59:07.:59:12.

Government always puts disabled people first. That's why we have

:59:12.:59:16.

protected disabled benefits, specifically on the issue that he

:59:16.:59:23.

raises, there is the �50 million fund to support people affected by

:59:23.:59:27.

the underoccupiesancy measure. Disabled adult - they don't want to

:59:27.:59:30.

hear the answers. This directly answers the point. Disabled adults

:59:30.:59:34.

will have access to discretionary housing payment scheme and it will

:59:34.:59:37.

remain for local authorities like his own, to assess the individual

:59:37.:59:44.

circumstances. It is worth making the point again, a �23 billion

:59:44.:59:48.

budget, 50% increase over the last decade, we have to do something

:59:48.:59:52.

about the growth in the housing benefit bill and all we hear is

:59:52.:00:00.

irresponsibility from the party opposite. Who would have thought

:00:00.:00:05.

when some of us voted for just a common market all those years ago,

:00:05.:00:11.

that the EU would now be interfering potentially in what

:00:11.:00:16.

benefits we should be paying to Romanians and Bulgarians before

:00:16.:00:21.

they've made any contribution to our society? Is it any wonder

:00:21.:00:26.

people feel disillusioned and powerless? Isn't the good news this,

:00:26.:00:30.

who is more likely to vote to give people a genuine choice in a

:00:30.:00:35.

referendum, a Liberal or a Conservative MP for Eastleigh?

:00:36.:00:38.

delighted my honourable friend managed to slip that point in at

:00:38.:00:41.

the end. I would urge any honourable friends who aren't there

:00:41.:00:45.

already to make their way to Eastleigh this afternoon and

:00:45.:00:50.

support Maria Hutchings in the campaign. The point that he makes

:00:50.:00:54.

is very important, which is we need to look through every aspect of how

:00:55.:00:59.

we welcome people to our country and make sure while we must be fair,

:00:59.:01:04.

we must not be a soft touch. I am making sure we look at our health

:01:04.:01:08.

service, we look at housing, at benefits, we look at legal aid, at

:01:08.:01:12.

all of the things and make sure we have proper and tough controls on

:01:12.:01:15.

people who want to come and live here.

:01:15.:01:19.

The Treasury was required to approve the settlement made with a

:01:19.:01:24.

dismissed former chief executive of my local hospital Trust in February

:01:24.:01:28.

last year. If he believes in openness in the NHS, why has his

:01:28.:01:34.

Government allowed this size of this pay-off to be kept secret?

:01:34.:01:37.

will look closely at this issue that he raises. I know there have

:01:37.:01:41.

been particular issues around foundation Trusts in the area which

:01:41.:01:45.

he represents. I will make sure that the Health Secretary writes to

:01:45.:01:51.

him about this issue. Recently large numbers of my constituents

:01:51.:01:56.

have taken a great interest in political campaigning in the

:01:56.:02:00.

neighbouring County. My belief is that it's always best if local

:02:00.:02:05.

people have a strong independent voice, particularly if they're in

:02:05.:02:11.

favour of controlling immigration, making welfare fairer, and an in-

:02:11.:02:15.

out referendum. Does the Prime Minister agree with my advice that

:02:15.:02:20.

the people of Eastleigh will be well advised to vote for Maria

:02:20.:02:26.

Hutchings tomorrow? I want to thank my honourable friend for his hard

:02:26.:02:31.

work and for the ingenious way he managed to get that question in

:02:31.:02:41.
:02:41.:02:46.

If you have any luck in getting the honourable member for Rhondda to

:02:46.:02:52.

shut up, do let us know how it's done! The Prime Minister Prime

:02:52.:02:54.

Minister shouldn't bother phoning me, I will phone him in those

:02:54.:03:00.

circumstances. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Mr

:03:00.:03:05.

Speaker. Perhaps we could end Prime Minister's questions on a similar

:03:05.:03:11.

note to that which we began it with, recognising the appalling views of

:03:11.:03:16.

the Labour candidate in Eastleigh. He said this about the Falklands

:03:16.:03:20.

war, one of the proudest moments of this country's recent history, I

:03:20.:03:25.

settled, he said, on the position of wanting Great Britain to lose a

:03:25.:03:28.

war for the good of Great Britain. This candidate endorsed by the

:03:28.:03:32.

leader of the Labour Party, a shocking lack of patriotism and

:03:32.:03:36.

national pride. Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister has run away from

:03:36.:03:40.

the question as to whether he will personally benefit from the

:03:40.:03:44.

millionaires tax cut. It's a simple question. When the top rate of tax

:03:44.:03:50.

is cut from 50p to 45, will he personally benefit? The top rate of

:03:50.:03:54.

tax under this Government will be higher than any year under his

:03:55.:03:58.

Government. That is the change that we are bringing about. When they

:03:58.:04:06.

introduced the 50p they lost �7 billion in tax revenue. They're not

:04:06.:04:16.
:04:16.:04:28.

only socialists, they're Iain Watson got it right, although

:04:28.:04:36.

it was not that difficult! They went on the economy, we will talk

:04:36.:04:40.

about that in a minute, it was the argument about the AAA rating, the

:04:40.:04:44.

deficit, it was the sense that we have heard a lot of this argument

:04:44.:04:48.

before and we probably will again in the future. It really only came

:04:48.:04:52.

to light when the Prime Minister quoted the New Statesman magazine,

:04:52.:04:56.

and the Leader of the Opposition attack did, which seemed strange.

:04:56.:05:05.

It is a fine centre-left magazine we might talk about that in a

:05:05.:05:14.

moment. What were the viewers saying? Jimmy from Nottingham said

:05:14.:05:18.

that when David Cameron stonewalls the questions by asking more which

:05:18.:05:23.

aren't answered by Ed Miliband, that is the question. The

:05:23.:05:29.

politicians are just taking a turn to punch a wall. Another viewer

:05:29.:05:32.

said that Ed scored an own goal with his New Statesman jibe, if he

:05:32.:05:37.

can't land one blow on the Prime Minister today, you never will. Tom

:05:37.:05:40.

from Rotherham says that neither Ed Miliband nor David Cameron have

:05:40.:05:45.

grasped the fact that the credit ratings have no more substance than

:05:45.:05:48.

a considered opinion. Diane from Cornwall said clearly the loss of

:05:48.:05:52.

the AAA rating, though largely insignificant economically, is

:05:53.:05:57.

dynamite politically, which Ed Miliband exposed eloquently. And

:05:57.:06:01.

this from Marjorie, petty squabbling in the House of Commons

:06:01.:06:05.

while Rome burns. I'm depressed about Britain's future. The level

:06:05.:06:09.

of political debate is so squalid and I feel sorry for the Deputy

:06:09.:06:16.

Prime Minister, he looks ill. On that note, let's turn to Iain

:06:16.:06:20.

Watson. Give us some more of your penetrating prescience. Two things

:06:20.:06:26.

struck me, the first was, as you alluded to, Ed Miliband got mugged.

:06:26.:06:31.

His strategy was quite clear, let's go on the economy then say the

:06:31.:06:35.

credit rating as part of a wider malaise surrounding the Government.

:06:35.:06:39.

And interest rate -- interestingly trying to get onto the issue of

:06:39.:06:43.

trust in the Prime Minister, waving around the Conservative manifesto

:06:43.:06:48.

which promise to protect the credit rating. That was fine. Then

:06:48.:06:54.

suddenly he almost walked into this trap. He said that you are scraping

:06:54.:06:59.

the bottom of the barrel by quoting the New Statesman, Ed Miliband says

:06:59.:07:02.

to David Cameron. Them the punchline, David Cameron says, this

:07:02.:07:07.

was the magazine that supported you. In terms of the theatre, Ed

:07:07.:07:12.

Miliband would not have got a victory, but in terms of wider

:07:12.:07:18.

arguments, the Conservatives not sticking to their own promises.

:07:18.:07:22.

Very briefly, as one of the e-mail suggested, Nick Clegg had not

:07:22.:07:26.

looked well, but I was surprised at how restrained backbenchers were on

:07:26.:07:32.

both sides. They mentioned Eastleigh but they did not spiral

:07:32.:07:39.

them into the Liberal Democrats' current troubles. Is there not some

:07:39.:07:45.

substance in the claimed that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls, despite

:07:45.:07:49.

having an open goal on the economy, are having difficulty in getting

:07:49.:07:54.

the ball in the back of the net? think the AAA rating is not the

:07:54.:07:59.

thing, this was Osborne's test, but for me I think you need to talk to

:08:00.:08:04.

families on the street, as I do all the time. For them, wages are

:08:04.:08:09.

falling, prices are rising, how do they cope? Nobody in the coalition

:08:09.:08:16.

seems worried. These are issues that quite absolutely resonate in a

:08:16.:08:22.

way that, it was even said earlier, AAA might be a form of battery to

:08:22.:08:26.

most people. Whether you can put food on the table or pay the Energy

:08:26.:08:30.

Bill Matters. It is more relevant. And Osborne said it was so

:08:30.:08:34.

important, when Labour said it was not, what is important is getting

:08:34.:08:38.

growth back into the economy, because it is not happening. They

:08:38.:08:43.

said about the deficit coming down, it is not. It is going up. Debt is

:08:43.:08:47.

going up, borrowing is coming up. Their strategy has not worked.

:08:47.:08:51.

Let's look at what is happening to people trying to feed their

:08:51.:08:58.

families every day, that is really important. You've just done a

:08:58.:09:02.

better job than Ed Miliband it. There is a tradition and a House of

:09:02.:09:06.

Commons, I said, the open goal has always missed. The expectation is

:09:06.:09:11.

too high, it is too obvious, you almost pointing out which corner of

:09:11.:09:18.

the let the ball is going into. I think Ed Miliband would have been

:09:18.:09:20.

much better going on cost of living, it would have been much stronger

:09:20.:09:25.

and less expected than the credit ratings argument. If we are trying

:09:25.:09:34.

to do better than Miliband, let me have a go. David Davis, inflation

:09:34.:09:37.

is 50% higher than target, real living standards have been squeezed

:09:37.:09:42.

as never before and for longer than any time in 70 years, death a debt

:09:42.:09:48.

reduction has stalled, that is a polite way of putting it -- deficit

:09:48.:09:52.

reduction. There is no growth in the economy and your credit agency

:09:52.:09:57.

rating has gone. What is going right? My view on this is that it

:09:57.:10:02.

is very simple, we ought to have a Tory growth strategy. Let's not kid

:10:02.:10:05.

ourselves, this started with an inheritance which was very hard to

:10:05.:10:09.

deal with, namely the enormous deficit, the overspending over the

:10:09.:10:15.

good times. That is a clear cause. You are now borrowing more than

:10:15.:10:18.

Alastair Darling plan to, and your party said he was borrowing too

:10:18.:10:22.

much. This solution requires an austerity programme which is

:10:22.:10:26.

tougher than the one we have. We have had a lot of rhetoric about

:10:26.:10:31.

austerity, we need a bit more reality. More cuts, I'm afraid, or

:10:31.:10:39.

the same cuts faster. And the second half, the simple truth is if

:10:39.:10:49.
:10:49.:10:49.

every 1% less on growth loses you on the deficit every year after.

:10:49.:10:53.

Myself and John Redwood have said for years, there has been a need

:10:53.:10:58.

for a growth strategy from day one, meaning lower taxes. It is the sort

:10:58.:11:03.

of thing the Germans did in 2003 when they cut taxes in the middle

:11:03.:11:07.

of a deficit problem unsolved the deficit. In the Times this morning,

:11:07.:11:11.

John Redwood had an alternative plan to the Government. You have

:11:11.:11:16.

admitted to me that not a lot has gone right with it. If there is no

:11:16.:11:23.

change in the Budget, and there is no sign that there will be, for how

:11:23.:11:26.

long will your backbench colleagues put up with current economic

:11:26.:11:31.

strategy? They will, but they will be critical. It is interesting to

:11:31.:11:36.

see what happens in the Budget. He has a narrow slot and he might well

:11:36.:11:40.

start to think that some tax reductions are necessary in order

:11:40.:11:48.

to get the growth under way. They must be getting unhappy? Of course

:11:48.:11:53.

some of them are run happy. You don't see it on this, you see it on

:11:53.:11:58.

the rather less watch debates on the House of Commons when people

:11:58.:12:01.

are on their feet, but it is a real issue not just in this country but

:12:01.:12:07.

virtually every Western country. They are failing to resolve this

:12:07.:12:12.

problem. The Americans are, most Europeans are, obviously it's any

:12:12.:12:22.
:12:22.:12:23.

is. It requires a much more robust, much bolder policy on taxation.

:12:23.:12:26.

said that you were sure, despite the criticism, that Mr Cameron

:12:26.:12:30.

would remain as Prime Minister until the end of the parliament.

:12:30.:12:35.

Are you as Shearer by George Osborne remaining Chancellor?

:12:35.:12:40.

are two halves of the same coin. are you as sure about George

:12:40.:12:45.

Osborne. We were meeting people last night

:12:45.:12:50.

associated with the parliament, we have a big audience in Brussels, it

:12:50.:12:54.

was very encouraging to hear that. Not caught up in the ratings,

:12:54.:13:00.

either! Should the European Parliament not consider a kind of

:13:00.:13:04.

Prime Minister's Questions to raise its profile? If it is like that

:13:04.:13:14.
:13:14.:13:19.

I was trying to think of something diplomatic. I don't want to be in a

:13:19.:13:23.

bear pit like that, what does that achieve? I am not sure what we

:13:23.:13:28.

achieved by that. It keeps you in a job, yes, but does it inform the

:13:28.:13:34.

debate. Do you not like PMQs? OK for a little bit of jousting,

:13:34.:13:38.

but I don't think it moves the debate on. That is the way our

:13:38.:13:43.

Parliament works, this one works differently, it is more about

:13:43.:13:47.

consensus. That is why you see a lot more women. This is the way

:13:47.:13:51.

women prefer to work. That is not the way most women like to work.

:13:51.:13:56.

You should have asked Margaret Thatcher that question! You think

:13:56.:14:00.

if we had more women and the British Parliament, and they are

:14:00.:14:05.

still terribly under-represented, we would see less of what you call

:14:05.:14:10.

the bear-pit? I would hope so. And I think it puts a lot of women

:14:10.:14:17.

going into national politics, absolutely. Final thought? I think

:14:17.:14:22.

the final thought would be... We managed to talk about a European

:14:23.:14:27.

issue at the end, Romanian and Bulgarian immigration, it will be

:14:27.:14:32.

interesting to see where that goes. David Cameron mentioned faster cuts,

:14:32.:14:36.

I was wondering if that was faster than Labour, and an attempt to

:14:36.:14:40.

appease people like David Davis. Thank you very much.

:14:40.:14:47.

The Budget was coming up in a few weeks.

:14:47.:14:53.

Deduce a pizza before? That is your imaginary friend. -- did you say

:14:53.:14:58.

Peter? Back to the issue of Europe and

:14:58.:14:59.

with the Conservatives continuing to dangle a possibility of an in-

:14:59.:15:03.

out referendum after the next election, we should remember that

:15:03.:15:07.

many European Parliament MEPs believe that Europe's next -- real

:15:07.:15:13.

future lies in further integration. This is Sophie in 't Veld, a Dutch

:15:13.:15:23.
:15:23.:15:33.

liberal, with her take on which way When European integration started

:15:33.:15:38.

in the 50s right after two devastating world wars that tore

:15:38.:15:43.

this continent apart, the purpose was very much to integrate nation-

:15:43.:15:47.

states and make sure they would never make war on each other again.

:15:47.:15:53.

Today, the challenges are a very different nature. The challenges

:15:53.:15:58.

are a globalised economy, the challenges our energy, the

:15:58.:16:01.

challenges are the competition for raw materials in the world. And

:16:01.:16:05.

this is something that Europe needs to consider. If we want to preserve

:16:05.:16:10.

our way of life, if we want to preserve our standard of living,

:16:10.:16:14.

our quality of life, then we need to do it as a single consonant and

:16:14.:16:20.

speak with one voice, that is why Europe needs to integrate further.

:16:20.:16:24.

For decades, Europe has been shaped by diplomats who would come

:16:24.:16:30.

together, diplomats from different countries negotiating and having an

:16:30.:16:35.

exchange of national interests. But now Europe needs to become a fully-

:16:35.:16:38.

fledged political union where citizens actually give a mandate to

:16:38.:16:48.
:16:48.:16:55.

If we are to become this democratic political Union of citizens then we

:16:55.:16:59.

need to develop into a community of citizens based not only a shared

:17:00.:17:04.

interest but also shared values. The world today is going through

:17:04.:17:08.

nothing short of a revolution comparable to the Industrial

:17:08.:17:11.

Revolution. If the world is different, Europe needs to change

:17:12.:17:16.

as well. We need to do it together, that is the only way that Europe

:17:16.:17:20.

can preserve our quality of life, our way of life, in a changing

:17:20.:17:30.
:17:30.:17:33.

And Sophie joins us now, alongside the UKIP MEP, Roger Helmer. You are

:17:33.:17:35.

obviously in favour of further integration, do you want all EU

:17:35.:17:39.

member states to join the single currency? Well, I don't think it's

:17:39.:17:44.

up to me to tell member states what to do, but I think ultimately, it

:17:44.:17:50.

would benefit us all if we have a single continent with a single,

:17:50.:17:54.

strong currency that also provides protection against external shocks,

:17:54.:17:58.

but obviously it is for, in this case, the British people to decide

:17:58.:18:02.

whether or not they want to join. It's an interesting view, bearing

:18:02.:18:06.

in mind the euro is in such a crisis and many in Britain say it's

:18:06.:18:10.

a relief we are not part of the euro. How do you think it would

:18:10.:18:14.

benefit stphus. The euro is not in a crisis. The euro has proven to be

:18:14.:18:18.

remarkably stable and resill kwrept. We have a crisis of a different

:18:18.:18:22.

nature, an economic crisis, a political crisis. It turned out we

:18:22.:18:27.

didn't have the political, the governance instruments to reply to

:18:27.:18:31.

respond to the economic turbulence coming at us a. But the euro is

:18:31.:18:37.

very stable. I don't think we have a euro crisis. I think we are too

:18:37.:18:42.

focused on internal matters. We are fairly obsessed with our belly

:18:42.:18:45.

buttons and seem to forget the euro is not only an exchange instrument

:18:45.:18:49.

between European countries, it's also a global currency, a reserve

:18:49.:18:54.

currency. What do you say to that. I don't think Sophie is living in

:18:54.:18:59.

the real world. We have had the euro crisis running like some

:18:59.:19:02.

perverse soap opera for the last three years or so. We have large

:19:02.:19:06.

parts of southern Europe in utter crisis. We lost the Bulgarian Prime

:19:07.:19:09.

Minister recently, we all know about Greece. We have seen what's

:19:09.:19:15.

happened in the Italian elections, which are mainly motivated by

:19:15.:19:18.

unhappiness with austerity imposed from Brussels. The thing is a

:19:18.:19:22.

crisis, no argument about it. The British people know that. The

:19:22.:19:26.

British people would absolutely not contemplate joining the euro.

:19:26.:19:32.

Haven't the Italians stuck two fingers up to austerity, austerity

:19:32.:19:35.

imposed by Brussels? They may not be saying no to the euro but

:19:35.:19:39.

they've said in a sense, no more, thank you very much. I fully

:19:40.:19:43.

understand but you have to distinguish what is the cause and

:19:43.:19:47.

what is the consequence. I think any country, including my own

:19:47.:19:50.

country, we could not escape austerity even if we were outside

:19:50.:19:55.

the eurozone. It's very simple maths. You cannot systematically

:19:55.:20:01.

spend more than you earn. At some point you have to cut back or you

:20:01.:20:07.

have to earn more, one way or the other. You have a 35% gap in

:20:07.:20:11.

competitive... Let me finish, please. There are several ways out

:20:11.:20:17.

of the debt crisis and economic crisis. Is further integration and

:20:17.:20:21.

closer fiscal union one? If we have a shared currency, which we have,

:20:21.:20:25.

then we also need to have the governance instruments to go with

:20:25.:20:29.

it. Or we should choose not to have the currency. One or the other.

:20:29.:20:33.

are halfway to a solution. You would need to make the euro work,

:20:33.:20:37.

you would need fiscal integration, that would mean Germany sending

:20:37.:20:42.

billions of euros to Greece and Italy and Spain, not on the odd ad

:20:42.:20:47.

hoc bail out, but every year. The The German voters won't stand for

:20:47.:20:51.

it. That solution will not and cannot work. The only solution,

:20:51.:20:55.

actually, is to break up the euro, the question is when, how, and what

:20:55.:21:00.

pattern we get afterwards. Further integration, is that what Labour

:21:00.:21:04.

MEPs would like to see actually Britain encouraging more

:21:04.:21:07.

integration with Britain part of it? Absolutely not. That's a

:21:08.:21:11.

Liberal point of view. Our view is that we want strong member states,

:21:11.:21:14.

working together on those areas where it's obvious that it's

:21:14.:21:18.

helpful, like the environment, security. All of those, a single

:21:18.:21:22.

market. There's lots of areas we should work together. We are not

:21:22.:21:26.

federalists, we don't believe in that model. In order for there to

:21:26.:21:30.

be prosperity again in Europe that's what has to happen,

:21:30.:21:33.

otherwise this will continue. are two issues. One is what do you

:21:34.:21:37.

with the eurozone countries that have obviously got to make changes

:21:37.:21:41.

about how they manage their economies. I think it's a different

:21:41.:21:44.

issue about Europe altogether. not a referendum, why is Labour

:21:44.:21:48.

standing on the fence in terms of offering the British people a

:21:48.:21:53.

referendum saying not now, it will create uncertainty but we are not

:21:53.:21:58.

ruling it out, which also creates uncertainty? It Does create create

:21:58.:22:01.

uncertainty to say in X number of years we will have a referendum.

:22:01.:22:08.

British businesses will tell you that. I had a meeting with an

:22:08.:22:11.

ambassador, it caused uncertainty for American companies. It's not

:22:11.:22:14.

the right time. We have more things to do, getting the economy working.

:22:14.:22:19.

Will a Conservative Prime Minister take us out of the EU? Depends what

:22:19.:22:25.

the referendum says. What he won't do is take us no the euro. When it

:22:25.:22:29.

was first founded we didn't join and opposed it for two reasons. One

:22:29.:22:32.

was because it would amplify the shocks, the problems, the economic

:22:32.:22:35.

problems that we had. Secondly, it would take away democratic

:22:35.:22:39.

accountability from the nation states. You have seen that in Spain,

:22:39.:22:45.

in Greece, in Italy, today, in Spain, in Portugal. We don't want

:22:45.:22:48.

it. What do you make of the British position? I don't know what the

:22:48.:22:54.

British position is, frankly. There are many different positions in

:22:54.:23:01.

Britain. I think there is one very positive outcome of all this and -

:23:01.:23:06.

of the whole crisis situation, never before have we debated so

:23:06.:23:11.

much about the purposes, the merits or not of European integration and

:23:11.:23:15.

how we want Europe to integrate. When European integration started

:23:15.:23:21.

in the 50s, Europe was about 20% of the world population of then 2.5

:23:21.:23:25.

billion. Now the population is 7 billion and we are about 7%. We are

:23:25.:23:29.

shrinking and ageing. If we want to preserve the position of Europe in

:23:29.:23:33.

the world, we need to do it together. But we need to do it in a

:23:33.:23:35.

democratic way. We have to stop there. Do you think Britain will

:23:35.:23:39.

still be in the EU after the next election? I very much hope so.

:23:39.:23:43.

Tkoeu think that we belong -- I do think that we belong together.

:23:43.:23:49.

I bring us back to the Eastleigh by-election. Reports cominging out

:23:49.:23:54.

there is a head of steam behind UKIP, what say you? I can endorse

:23:54.:23:57.

that, I was there at the weekend. I am not going to make predictions,

:23:57.:24:01.

it's a mug's game. People may well be surprised by the outcome and I

:24:01.:24:06.

think we are we are doing very well, having said I won't make a predicts,

:24:06.:24:09.

one I would make is I think we are going to get a record share of the

:24:09.:24:13.

vote for UKIP in a by-election. number of your colleagues, senior

:24:13.:24:17.

UKIP people, were telling us in private, that they thought you

:24:17.:24:23.

would win Eastleigh. If we do, I shall drink a great deal of

:24:23.:24:27.

champagne. I got that bit! Do you think you will win? We are in with

:24:27.:24:31.

a chance. We know that, but do you think you will win? I am not

:24:31.:24:34.

venturing... A strong word in private, why don't you say it in

:24:34.:24:37.

public? If I believe we were going to win I would say we are going to

:24:37.:24:42.

win. You know what it's like in politics, you make a prediction and

:24:42.:24:47.

everybody holds you to it. I don't know whether we are going to win. I

:24:47.:24:50.

hope we will. I have worked to that objective. We are in with a good

:24:50.:24:53.

chance. People won't vote Labour, they know Labour's not going

:24:53.:24:57.

anywhere. If they want to give the coalition a knock... We don't need

:24:57.:25:02.

to go around the whole course! You sound like the football manager who

:25:02.:25:12.

said I don't make predictions and I never will! Profound.

:25:12.:25:15.

Now, the 754 MEPs who come here each week represent the second

:25:15.:25:17.

largest democratic electorate in the world, after India. In order to

:25:17.:25:21.

house all those MEPs you need a pretty big building. We sent Adam

:25:21.:25:23.

on a little tour. Welcome to the European Parliament,

:25:23.:25:27.

half a million square metres. The most exciting bit is where

:25:27.:25:30.

parliament meets when it's not at its other seat in the French city

:25:30.:25:35.

of Strasbourg. Sadly, we will not be seeing it today, because it's

:25:35.:25:39.

closed for the foreseeable future after enormous cracks appeared in

:25:39.:25:45.

the ceiling. Come with me on a search for alternative interesting

:25:45.:25:52.

things in this findishly complicated building.

:25:52.:25:58.

-- fiendishly. Every MEP gets their own peupblgial hole where -- pigeon

:25:59.:26:05.

hole where papers are delivered. The only thing there's more of is

:26:05.:26:10.

art. The walls of this place are covered in it.

:26:10.:26:18.

The biggest piece is this one, by a Belgian sculptor. It's a sort of

:26:18.:26:21.

hymn to European togetherness in stainless steel and runs through

:26:21.:26:26.

the middle of the building. Then there is the fact there is

:26:26.:26:29.

weird stuff just dotted around all over the place. Like this grand

:26:29.:26:34.

piano donated by the people of Estonia to mark their country's

:26:34.:26:44.

90th anniversary. Now, how does the Estonian national anthem go?

:26:44.:26:49.

No. No, I have no idea what that sign means.

:26:49.:26:53.

Running the various parliament buildings costs about a 10th of 1%

:26:53.:26:59.

of the total EU budget. Around 190 million euros a year. It's also a

:26:59.:27:04.

very open place. They'll let you film pretty much everywhere,

:27:04.:27:07.

annoyingly, the only thing off limits are the bars and restaurants.

:27:07.:27:13.

I can tell that you one of them is the Mickey Mouse bar. The chairs in

:27:13.:27:17.

it are reminiscent of a certain Disney character. Sadly, they've

:27:17.:27:22.

got rid of most of them now and these are museum pieces.

:27:22.:27:30.

Talking of museums, there's one here called The Parliamentarian.

:27:30.:27:37.

It's amazingly hi-tech. You can't come to a tourist

:27:37.:27:42.

attraction without going to a gift shop. Giant chocolate euro, Andrew?

:27:42.:27:51.

Jo, how about teabags in the shape of world leaders? A euro-shaped

:27:51.:28:00.

money box. And a giant euro clock. He is good with the presents! Just

:28:00.:28:04.

before we go, it's time to put you out of your misery and give you the

:28:04.:28:10.

answer to Guess The Year. It was 2007. The winner is Sue Renyard

:28:10.:28:20.
:28:20.:28:23.

from Fareham in Hampshire. Well done, Sue. That's it for today.

:28:23.:28:26.

Thanks to our guests - especially David Davis and Glenis Willmott for

:28:26.:28:30.

being our guests of the day. The news is starting over on BBC One

:28:30.:28:33.

now. We'll be back in Westminster again tomorrow with all the big

:28:33.:28:38.

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