08/03/2013 Daily Politics

Welcome to the Daily Politics, the Welcome to the Daily Politics, the

Welcome to the Daily Politics, the Lib Dems are in a critical

Lib Dems are in a critical Lib Dems are in a critical

condition according to their party condition according to their party

condition according to their party President Tim Farron. Don't worry,

President Tim Farron. Don't worry, President Tim Farron. Don't worry,

like cockroaches he said or Gloria like cockroaches he said or Gloria

like cockroaches he said or Gloria Gaynor we say, they will survive.

Gaynor we say, they will survive. Gaynor we say, they will survive.

Gaynor we say, they will survive. We'll debate the state of the Lib

We'll debate the state of the Lib We'll debate the state of the Lib

Dems ahead of their Spring Dems ahead of their Spring

Dems ahead of their Spring Conference this weekend. It's not

Conference this weekend. It's not Conference this weekend. It's not

Conference this weekend. It's not just the Lib Dems in gazing mode,

just the Lib Dems in gazing mode, just the Lib Dems in gazing mode,

senior Tories including a Home senior Tories including a Home

senior Tories including a Home Secretary rumoured to be on

Secretary rumoured to be on Secretary rumoured to be on

manoeuvres will debate how the manoeuvres will debate how the

manoeuvres will debate how the manoeuvres will debate how the

party can win in 2015. We'll have a party can win in 2015. We'll have a

party can win in 2015. We'll have a neek preview. There may be more

neek preview. There may be more neek preview. There may be more

women in Parliament these days, but women in Parliament these days, but

women in Parliament these days, but women in Parliament these days, but

there are big battles to be won. there are big battles to be won.

there are big battles to be won. there are big battles to be won.

It's likely to be the most one- It's likely to be the most one-

It's likely to be the most one- sided electoral skier size since

sided electoral skier size since Saddam Hussein tested public

Saddam Hussein tested public Saddam Hussein tested public

opinion in Ba'athist Iraq. So opinion in Ba'athist Iraq. So

opinion in Ba'athist Iraq. So what's the point of the Falklands

what's the point of the Falklands what's the point of the Falklands

island referendum? All that in the island referendum? All that in the

island referendum? All that in the next hour, action packed public

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 99 seconds

I think one thing, though, is that I think one thing, though, is that

I think one thing, though, is that I think one thing, though, is that

I think some of the Tories will I think some of the Tories will

I think some of the Tories will resent, who might otherwise be

resent, who might otherwise be resent, who might otherwise be

resent, who might otherwise be rather keen on doing a deal with

rather keen on doing a deal with rather keen on doing a deal with

UKIP at a general election, might UKIP at a general election, might

UKIP at a general election, might resent Nigel Farage trying to take

resent Nigel Farage trying to take resent Nigel Farage trying to take

resent Nigel Farage trying to take a hand on who leads the Tory party.

a hand on who leads the Tory party. a hand on who leads the Tory party.

a hand on who leads the Tory party. I think that could be bad news for

I think that could be bad news for I think that could be bad news for

them. It might be another reason them. It might be another reason

them. It might be another reason them. It might be another reason

why a lot of backbenchers think Mr why a lot of backbenchers think Mr

why a lot of backbenchers think Mr Cameron is in the way. Absolutely.

Cameron is in the way. Absolutely. Cameron is in the way. Absolutely.

Cameron is in the way. Absolutely. Keep coming back at Cameron is his

Keep coming back at Cameron is his Keep coming back at Cameron is his

remark about ewe kip... There are remark about ewe kip... There are

remark about ewe kip... There are remark about ewe kip... There are

some MPs on the right who prefer some MPs on the right who prefer

some MPs on the right who prefer Nigel Farage to David Cameron, it's

Nigel Farage to David Cameron, it's Nigel Farage to David Cameron, it's

Nigel Farage to David Cameron, it's a fact. Chat to them, you hear it.

a fact. Chat to them, you hear it. a fact. Chat to them, you hear it.

a fact. Chat to them, you hear it. Not just on Europe. No, tax, public

Not just on Europe. No, tax, public Not just on Europe. No, tax, public

spending, across the board. He's a spending, across the board. He's a

spending, across the board. He's a spending, across the board. He's a

player now Mr Farage. It does mean player now Mr Farage. It does mean

player now Mr Farage. It does mean Ed Miliband might be the fourth

Ed Miliband might be the fourth Ed Miliband might be the fourth

most interesting man in British most interesting man in British

most interesting man in British politics after Cameron, Clegg and

politics after Cameron, Clegg and politics after Cameron, Clegg and

Farage. Mr Farage, you wouldn't go Farage. Mr Farage, you wouldn't go

Farage. Mr Farage, you wouldn't go on this morning, he is usually

on this morning, he is usually on this morning, he is usually

on this morning, he is usually quite keen. We wanted to hear all

quite keen. We wanted to hear all quite keen. We wanted to hear all

about it. He's probably got a about it. He's probably got a

about it. He's probably got a hangover after his night on the

hangover after his night on the hangover after his night on the

town. Which insect would you town. Which insect would you

town. Which insect would you compare the Liberal Democrats to? I

compare the Liberal Democrats to? I compare the Liberal Democrats to? I

compare the Liberal Democrats to? I know what I would, a lovely bright

know what I would, a lovely bright coloured ladybird. Or something

coloured ladybird. Or something coloured ladybird. Or something

yellow and black that could sting yellow and black that could sting

yellow and black that could sting yellow and black that could sting

you, like a wasp. But it's none of you, like a wasp. But it's none of

you, like a wasp. But it's none of you, like a wasp. But it's none of

these if the ask the Lib Dems these if the ask the Lib Dems

these if the ask the Lib Dems themselves. It's an insect which is

themselves. It's an insect which is themselves. It's an insect which is

nocturnal and rather repulsive, the nocturnal and rather repulsive, the

humble cockroach. There's Tim humble cockroach. There's Tim

humble cockroach. There's Tim humble cockroach. There's Tim

Farron, who made the comments in an Farron, who made the comments in an

Farron, who made the comments in an interview with the House magazine.

interview with the House magazine. interview with the House magazine.

It's a comparison made before It's a comparison made before

It's a comparison made before because the Lib Dems are supposed

because the Lib Dems are supposed because the Lib Dems are supposed

because the Lib Dems are supposed to be good at survival, like the

to be good at survival, like the to be good at survival, like the

cockroach after a nuclear winter. cockroach after a nuclear winter.

cockroach after a nuclear winter. cockroach after a nuclear winter.

He's also said that the Lib Dems He's also said that the Lib Dems

He's also said that the Lib Dems are in a critical state, adding,

are in a critical state, adding, are in a critical state, adding,

are in a critical state, adding, "One day someone will stand on us

"One day someone will stand on us "One day someone will stand on us

if we're not careful. We shouldn't if we're not careful. We shouldn't

if we're not careful. We shouldn't assume our survival is guaranteed."

assume our survival is guaranteed." assume our survival is guaranteed."

This interview was carried out This interview was carried out

This interview was carried out before the Eastleigh win. Some in

before the Eastleigh win. Some in before the Eastleigh win. Some in

before the Eastleigh win. Some in the party may feel they don't need

the party may feel they don't need the party may feel they don't need

the party may feel they don't need to retreat under the sofa just yet.

to retreat under the sofa just yet. to retreat under the sofa just yet.

to retreat under the sofa just yet. But one poll this morning shows the

But one poll this morning shows the But one poll this morning shows the

But one poll this morning shows the scale of the comal eng still facing

scale of the comal eng still facing scale of the comal eng still facing

the -- challenge still facing the the -- challenge still facing the

the -- challenge still facing the leader. There was an opinion poll

leader. There was an opinion poll leader. There was an opinion poll

leader. There was an opinion poll which show that's less than a third

which show that's less than a third which show that's less than a third

which show that's less than a third of those who backed the Lib Dems in

of those who backed the Lib Dems in of those who backed the Lib Dems in

of those who backed the Lib Dems in 2010 in the election then would do

2010 in the election then would do 2010 in the election then would do

so if there was an election so if there was an election

so if there was an election tomorrow. The party's had a few

tomorrow. The party's had a few tomorrow. The party's had a few

turbulent weeks, with Chris Huhne turbulent weeks, with Chris Huhne

turbulent weeks, with Chris Huhne turbulent weeks, with Chris Huhne

and his wife, or ex-wife facing a and his wife, or ex-wife facing a

and his wife, or ex-wife facing a prison sentence over a criminal

prison sentence over a criminal prison sentence over a criminal

attempt to hide the former Energy attempt to hide the former Energy

Women's Day. The allegations have to Women's Day. The allegations have to

Women's Day. The allegations have to be addressed of sexual impropriety

be addressed of sexual impropriety be addressed of sexual impropriety

against former chief executive Lord against former chief executive Lord

against former chief executive Lord rendered. Should be an interesting

rendered. Should be an interesting rendered. Should be an interesting

Lib Dem spring conference! Is your Lib Dem spring conference! Is your

Lib Dem spring conference! Is your party in a critical condition?

party in a critical condition? party in a critical condition?

trouble with metaphors is that they trouble with metaphors is that they

trouble with metaphors is that they trouble with metaphors is that they

can be interpreted in a variety of can be interpreted in a variety of

can be interpreted in a variety of ways. You could rewrite the script

ways. You could rewrite the script ways. You could rewrite the script

ways. You could rewrite the script the other way round, which says if

the other way round, which says if the other way round, which says if

you are a government party with you are a government party with

you are a government party with term, with all those anxious and

term, with all those anxious and term, with all those anxious and

term, with all those anxious and awkward cloud sitting on top of you

awkward cloud sitting on top of you awkward cloud sitting on top of you

and you win a by-election, something and you win a by-election, something

and you win a by-election, something and you win a by-election, something

must be going right for you and must be going right for you and

must be going right for you and must be going right for you and

there is hope for the future. That there is hope for the future. That

there is hope for the future. That there is hope for the future. That

is what this sense for the party is what this sense for the party

is what this sense for the party is what this sense for the party

will be. I find it interesting, it will be. I find it interesting, it

will be. I find it interesting, it will be. I find it interesting, it

is not a compliment to analogy, so is not a compliment to analogy, so

is not a compliment to analogy, so it is interesting that your own

it is interesting that your own it is interesting that your own

president would use what is regarded president would use what is regarded

president would use what is regarded president would use what is regarded

as a criticism of yourself by the as a criticism of yourself by the

as a criticism of yourself by the as a criticism of yourself by the

Tories. He used it before all stock Tories. He used it before all stock

Tories. He used it before all stock Tories. He used it before all stock

it was picked up by the Tories and it was picked up by the Tories and

it was picked up by the Tories and he turned it back on itself.

he turned it back on itself. he turned it back on itself.

Metaphors get in your way sometimes. Metaphors get in your way sometimes.

Metaphors get in your way sometimes. Only journalists get away with using

Only journalists get away with using Only journalists get away with using

them. But separate from the them. But separate from the

them. But separate from the cockroach metaphor was the question

cockroach metaphor was the question cockroach metaphor was the question

cockroach metaphor was the question I asked you at the beginning. He

I asked you at the beginning. He I asked you at the beginning. He

I asked you at the beginning. He said the party was in a critical

said the party was in a critical said the party was in a critical

said the party was in a critical state. In the rest of the article,

state. In the rest of the article, state. In the rest of the article,

he said there are great challenges he said there are great challenges

he said there are great challenges he said there are great challenges

for our party, but we are in beta for our party, but we are in beta

for our party, but we are in beta mode after Eastleigh. We won a

mode after Eastleigh. We won a mode after Eastleigh. We won a

mode after Eastleigh. We won a by-election. We know we are going in

by-election. We know we are going in by-election. We know we are going in

the right direction. As Mark Twain the right direction. As Mark Twain

the right direction. As Mark Twain the right direction. As Mark Twain

said, don't write us off yet, we are said, don't write us off yet, we are

said, don't write us off yet, we are said, don't write us off yet, we are

not dead. But did Mark Twain write not dead. But did Mark Twain write

not dead. But did Mark Twain write not dead. But did Mark Twain write

about the Lib Dems? The estimates of about the Lib Dems? The estimates of

about the Lib Dems? The estimates of my death are much exaggerated, he

my death are much exaggerated, he my death are much exaggerated, he

wrote. He also satellite goes wrote. He also satellite goes

wrote. He also satellite goes halfway round the world before the

halfway round the world before the halfway round the world before the

halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on. See,

truth has got its boots on. See, truth has got its boots on. See,

there are lots of metaphors around. there are lots of metaphors around.

there are lots of metaphors around. there are lots of metaphors around.

But we won a by-election in very But we won a by-election in very

But we won a by-election in very But we won a by-election in very

difficult times, and that puts us in difficult times, and that puts us in

difficult times, and that puts us in an up beat mood. There are

an up beat mood. There are an up beat mood. There are

undoubtedly issues to clarify. undoubtedly issues to clarify.

undoubtedly issues to clarify. undoubtedly issues to clarify.

do you make of this poll by Michael do you make of this poll by Michael

do you make of this poll by Michael Ashcroft which discovers that only

Ashcroft which discovers that only Ashcroft which discovers that only

Ashcroft which discovers that only 29% of those who voted for you in

29% of those who voted for you in 29% of those who voted for you in

29% of those who voted for you in 2010 would do so again? We have had

2010 would do so again? We have had 2010 would do so again? We have had

this before. People have said we this before. People have said we

this before. People have said we will never survive, it is

will never survive, it is will never survive, it is

impossible. The reality is, when it impossible. The reality is, when it

impossible. The reality is, when it comes to the real challenge that

comes to the real challenge that comes to the real challenge that

comes to the real challenge that people have to face up to who they

people have to face up to who they people have to face up to who they

people have to face up to who they want as their next MP, then they

want as their next MP, then they want as their next MP, then they

want as their next MP, then they make that decision. That is when the

make that decision. That is when the make that decision. That is when the

make that decision. That is when the reality hits in, and it has always

reality hits in, and it has always reality hits in, and it has always

reality hits in, and it has always been the case that we have outvoted

been the case that we have outvoted been the case that we have outvoted

all the predictions people have all the predictions people have

all the predictions people have made. We have been talking about

made. We have been talking about made. We have been talking about

Theresa May's manoeuvres. When you Theresa May's manoeuvres. When you

Theresa May's manoeuvres. When you have a party president who uses

have a party president who uses have a party president who uses

words like" we are cockroaches", it words like" we are cockroaches", it

words like" we are cockroaches", it words like" we are cockroaches", it

is hard not to conclude that Tim is hard not to conclude that Tim

is hard not to conclude that Tim Farron is on manoeuvres as well,

Farron is on manoeuvres as well, Farron is on manoeuvres as well,

playing for position. Those are playing for position. Those are

playing for position. Those are playing for position. Those are

questions you would have to put to questions you would have to put to

questions you would have to put to him. Personally, I think he is

him. Personally, I think he is him. Personally, I think he is

trying to make sure the Liberal trying to make sure the Liberal

trying to make sure the Liberal trying to make sure the Liberal

Democrats are at the top of the Democrats are at the top of the

Democrats are at the top of the headlines, and he's using the

headlines, and he's using the headlines, and he's using the

headlines, and he's using the language he uses so well to make

language he uses so well to make language he uses so well to make

sure that happens. You get headlines sure that happens. You get headlines

sure that happens. You get headlines sure that happens. You get headlines

by saying we are in a critical by saying we are in a critical

by saying we are in a critical state? The cockroaches reference has

state? The cockroaches reference has brought great amusement to

brought great amusement to brought great amusement to

everybody, because it is reflecting everybody, because it is reflecting

back something the Conservatives back something the Conservatives

back something the Conservatives used against them. But people are

used against them. But people are used against them. But people are

laughing at you, not with you. laughing at you, not with you.

laughing at you, not with you. People don't like cockroaches. To

People don't like cockroaches. To People don't like cockroaches. To

People don't like cockroaches. To compare yourself to one is barmy.

compare yourself to one is barmy. compare yourself to one is barmy.

compare yourself to one is barmy. did not say it was a metaphor I

did not say it was a metaphor I did not say it was a metaphor I

would use. It is colourful language. would use. It is colourful language.

would use. It is colourful language. would use. It is colourful language.

But he is the sort of person who But he is the sort of person who

But he is the sort of person who uses those metaphors. All people

uses those metaphors. All people uses those metaphors. All people

uses those metaphors. All people want to do with cockroaches is get

want to do with cockroaches is get want to do with cockroaches is get

want to do with cockroaches is get rid of them! Well, he was saying

rid of them! Well, he was saying rid of them! Well, he was saying

rid of them! Well, he was saying they hang on and they will carry on

they hang on and they will carry on they hang on and they will carry on

they hang on and they will carry on and cannot be removed. It is not a

and cannot be removed. It is not a and cannot be removed. It is not a

metaphor I would collectively use, metaphor I would collectively use,

metaphor I would collectively use, metaphor I would collectively use,

but he has reversed it from the way but he has reversed it from the way

but he has reversed it from the way but he has reversed it from the way

it was used by the Conservatives. it was used by the Conservatives.

it was used by the Conservatives. it was used by the Conservatives.

Farren also said Mr Cameron was a Farren also said Mr Cameron was a

Farren also said Mr Cameron was a Farren also said Mr Cameron was a

weak Prime Minister and in the grasp weak Prime Minister and in the grasp

weak Prime Minister and in the grasp weak Prime Minister and in the grasp

of the right of his party. Would you of the right of his party. Would you

agree? Since the beastly Eastleigh by-election! It was

Eastleigh by-election! It was Eastleigh by-election! It was

Eastleigh by-election! It was beastly for Cameron! But if you take

beastly for Cameron! But if you take beastly for Cameron! But if you take

beastly for Cameron! But if you take the fact that he said he would not

the fact that he said he would not the fact that he said he would not

react to the situation, in reality, react to the situation, in reality,

react to the situation, in reality, react to the situation, in reality,

there are predators on the right who there are predators on the right who

there are predators on the right who were gnawing away at his authority.

were gnawing away at his authority. were gnawing away at his authority.

There are certainly plenty of people There are certainly plenty of people

There are certainly plenty of people There are certainly plenty of people

who will talk openly about the fact who will talk openly about the fact

who will talk openly about the fact that they don't like the direction

that they don't like the direction that they don't like the direction

the Conservative party has taken. the Conservative party has taken.

the Conservative party has taken. the Conservative party has taken.

the Conservative party has taken. Why is it only the Lib Dems who give

Why is it only the Lib Dems who give Why is it only the Lib Dems who give

Why is it only the Lib Dems who give us a sex scandal that does not

us a sex scandal that does not us a sex scandal that does not

us a sex scandal that does not involve any sex? I don't know! There

involve any sex? I don't know! There involve any sex? I don't know! There

must be something buried somewhere. must be something buried somewhere.

must be something buried somewhere. must be something buried somewhere.

There is a big issue for us in There is a big issue for us in

There is a big issue for us in There is a big issue for us in

ensuring that we make sure we get to ensuring that we make sure we get to

ensuring that we make sure we get to ensuring that we make sure we get to

the bottom of this. It is a serious the bottom of this. It is a serious

the bottom of this. It is a serious the bottom of this. It is a serious

issue. You are only doing it because issue. You are only doing it because

issue. You are only doing it because issue. You are only doing it because

the press wrote it to the public's the press wrote it to the public's

the press wrote it to the public's attention. The party were right to

attention. The party were right to attention. The party were right to

attention. The party were right to make sure we get to the bottom of

make sure we get to the bottom of make sure we get to the bottom of

make sure we get to the bottom of this. But they did not act when the

this. But they did not act when the this. But they did not act when the

allegations were made. The real allegations were made. The real

allegations were made. The real allegations were made. The real

issue is not getting to the bottom issue is not getting to the bottom

issue is not getting to the bottom issue is not getting to the bottom

of who put whose hands on whose of who put whose hands on whose

of who put whose hands on whose knees, the difficulty for the Lib

knees, the difficulty for the Lib knees, the difficulty for the Lib

knees, the difficulty for the Lib Dems is that you have been trying to

Dems is that you have been trying to Dems is that you have been trying to

establish yourself as a serious establish yourself as a serious

establish yourself as a serious establish yourself as a serious

party of government, and now you are party of government, and now you are

party of government, and now you are bickering over who has been doing

bickering over who has been doing bickering over who has been doing

bickering over who has been doing what to whom, who is going to

what to whom, who is going to what to whom, who is going to

prison, what the investigation will prison, what the investigation will

prison, what the investigation will find out. It is all trivial

find out. It is all trivial find out. It is all trivial

occurring, all the things the public occurring, all the things the public

occurring, all the things the public occurring, all the things the public

hate about politics. I agree. But as hate about politics. I agree. But as

hate about politics. I agree. But as hate about politics. I agree. But as

with all things, once you start to with all things, once you start to

with all things, once you start to with all things, once you start to

put them right and once you get put them right and once you get

put them right and once you get these issues clarified, these things

these issues clarified, these things these issues clarified, these things

pass away because they are resolved. pass away because they are resolved.

pass away because they are resolved. pass away because they are resolved.

There will be a resolution to both There will be a resolution to both

There will be a resolution to both There will be a resolution to both

of these issues. But it is trivial. of these issues. But it is trivial.

of these issues. But it is trivial. Well, the stuff about Lord rendered

Well, the stuff about Lord rendered Well, the stuff about Lord rendered

Well, the stuff about Lord rendered is about an abuse of power. They

is about an abuse of power. They is about an abuse of power. They

felt he was intimidating. Then you felt he was intimidating. Then you

felt he was intimidating. Then you get the party president talking

get the party president talking get the party president talking

about cockroaches. Then there was about cockroaches. Then there was

about cockroaches. Then there was about cockroaches. Then there was

who knew what, when and where about who knew what, when and where about

who knew what, when and where about who knew what, when and where about

Vince Cable and Nick Clegg. Are you Vince Cable and Nick Clegg. Are you

Vince Cable and Nick Clegg. Are you Vince Cable and Nick Clegg. Are you

going to have an enquiry into that? going to have an enquiry into that?

going to have an enquiry into that? going to have an enquiry into that?

The reality about the third issue is The reality about the third issue is

The reality about the third issue is that those people accused have

that those people accused have that those people accused have

that those people accused have denied it and said there did not

denied it and said there did not denied it and said there did not

know anything. When somebody has know anything. When somebody has

know anything. When somebody has know anything. When somebody has

pleaded not guilty to a crime, right pleaded not guilty to a crime, right

pleaded not guilty to a crime, right pleaded not guilty to a crime, right

the way through to the last minute, the way through to the last minute,

the way through to the last minute, the way through to the last minute,

you would expect that does not turn you would expect that does not turn

you would expect that does not turn round and say to somebody else,

round and say to somebody else, round and say to somebody else,

actually... They all use this famous actually... They all use this famous

actually... They all use this famous phrase we heard in the Leveson

phrase we heard in the Leveson phrase we heard in the Leveson

Inquiry, I don't recollect. That is Inquiry, I don't recollect. That is

Inquiry, I don't recollect. That is different from saying no, they never

different from saying no, they never different from saying no, they never

different from saying no, they never told me that. It is only because

told me that. It is only because told me that. It is only because

told me that. It is only because they are trying to make sure that if

they are trying to make sure that if they are trying to make sure that if

they are trying to make sure that if they have to go back to their

they have to go back to their they have to go back to their

they have to go back to their files, to make sure you are right.

files, to make sure you are right. files, to make sure you are right.

files, to make sure you are right. If Mrs hoon had told you, my husband

If Mrs hoon had told you, my husband If Mrs hoon had told you, my husband

made me take his speeding points, made me take his speeding points,

made me take his speeding points, you would have remembered that. You

you would have remembered that. You you would have remembered that. You

would not have said, I can't would not have said, I can't

would not have said, I can't recollect. If you don't remember it,

recollect. If you don't remember it, recollect. If you don't remember it,

recollect. If you don't remember it, it you don't remember it, so it

it you don't remember it, so it it you don't remember it, so it

didn't happen. Not really, it could didn't happen. Not really, it could

didn't happen. Not really, it could have happened, you have just

have happened, you have just have happened, you have just

forgotten. It is something you would forgotten. It is something you would

forgotten. It is something you would have remembered. If you don't

have remembered. If you don't have remembered. If you don't

remember, it didn't happen. remember, it didn't happen.

remember, it didn't happen. remember, it didn't happen.

should not be a minister if you should not be a minister if you

should not be a minister if you can't remember something like that!

can't remember something like that! can't remember something like that!

Prime ministers and repeated prime Prime ministers and repeated prime

ministers and government ministers ministers and government ministers

ministers and government ministers ministers and government ministers

ministers and government ministers of all sorts have to use the sort of

of all sorts have to use the sort of of all sorts have to use the sort of

language which is not the colourful language which is not the colourful

metaphors but party president stews.

stews. stews.

It is International Women's Day It is International Women's Day

It is International Women's Day It is International Women's Day

today and it is a time that even today and it is a time that even

today and it is a time that even Tory MPs are asking questions. Here

Tory MPs are asking questions. Here is unlikely feminist Mark

is unlikely feminist Mark is unlikely feminist Mark

Pritchard, raising the subject with Pritchard, raising the subject with

Pritchard, raising the subject with Pritchard, raising the subject with

David Cameron. On the 8th of March, David Cameron. On the 8th of March,

we celebrate International Women's we celebrate International Women's

we celebrate International Women's Day. With the prime minister jointly

Day. With the prime minister jointly Day. With the prime minister jointly

in calling upon the Indian and in calling upon the Indian and

in calling upon the Indian and Pakistani governments to do more to

Pakistani governments to do more to Pakistani governments to do more to

Pakistani governments to do more to uphold the rights of women and to

uphold the rights of women and to uphold the rights of women and to

advance the gender agenda? advance the gender agenda?

advance the gender agenda? honourable friend is right to raise

honourable friend is right to raise honourable friend is right to raise

this. There are some particular this. There are some particular

this. There are some particular this. There are some particular

issues we should focus on, and that issues we should focus on, and that

issues we should focus on, and that is female genital mutilation, a

is female genital mutilation, a completely unacceptable practice

completely unacceptable practice completely unacceptable practice

completely unacceptable practice that we need to deal with across the

that we need to deal with across the that we need to deal with across the

that we need to deal with across the world, but including here in the UK,

world, but including here in the UK, world, but including here in the UK,

and we will make an announcement and we will make an announcement

and we will make an announcement and we will make an announcement

about that. But we should also do about that. But we should also do

about that. But we should also do more to crack down on the

more to crack down on the unacceptable practice of forced

unacceptable practice of forced marriages. There are forced

marriages. There are forced marriages. There are forced

marriages taking place here with marriages taking place here with

marriages taking place here with marriages taking place here with

people from the UK, and we need to stop it.

stop it. stop it.

We are joined to discuss We are joined to discuss

We are joined to discuss International Women's Day and a

International Women's Day and a International Women's Day and a

future of feminism by Laura Bates future of feminism by Laura Bates

future of feminism by Laura Bates from the Everyday Sexism project and

from the Everyday Sexism project and from the Everyday Sexism project and

academic Catherine Hakim. Let's look academic Catherine Hakim. Let's look

academic Catherine Hakim. Let's look academic Catherine Hakim. Let's look

at the position of women in Britain at the position of women in Britain

at the position of women in Britain at the position of women in Britain

to begin with and move on to the to begin with and move on to the

to begin with and move on to the wider situation. Is feminism still a

wider situation. Is feminism still a wider situation. Is feminism still a

relevant agenda with much still to relevant agenda with much still to

relevant agenda with much still to relevant agenda with much still to

achieve in Britain in 2013? I have achieve in Britain in 2013? I have

achieve in Britain in 2013? I have always taken the view that feminism

always taken the view that feminism always taken the view that feminism

always taken the view that feminism always taken the view that feminism

is here to stay in the sense that it is here to stay in the sense that it

informs young women's attitudes informs young women's attitudes

informs young women's attitudes which take their rights for granted.

which take their rights for granted. which take their rights for granted.

which take their rights for granted. They feel they have a voice and a

They feel they have a voice and a They feel they have a voice and a

They feel they have a voice and a place in public life. In that sense,

place in public life. In that sense, place in public life. In that sense,

place in public life. In that sense, it lives on and is permanent. But as

it lives on and is permanent. But as it lives on and is permanent. But as

it lives on and is permanent. But as a social movement, it is aired in

a social movement, it is aired in a social movement, it is aired in

a social movement, it is aired in the sense that very few young women

the sense that very few young women the sense that very few young women

nowadays think it has anything to nowadays think it has anything to

nowadays think it has anything to say to them personally. Laura

say to them personally. Laura say to them personally. Laura

say to them personally. Laura Bates? I think you are wrong. I have

Bates? I think you are wrong. I have Bates? I think you are wrong. I have

Bates? I think you are wrong. I have been going up and down the week

been going up and down the week look at facts in a wider context.

look at facts in a wider context. look at facts in a wider context.

look at facts in a wider context. At the moment we have an equalities

At the moment we have an equalities commission which is about

commission which is about preventing discrimination not just

preventing discrimination not just preventing discrimination not just

against women but against everybody. against women but against everybody.

against women but against everybody. against women but against everybody.

They carried out a survey to and They carried out a survey to and

They carried out a survey to and asked, "Do you feel discriminated

asked, "Do you feel discriminated asked, "Do you feel discriminated

against?" About half of all women against?" About half of all women

against?" About half of all women against?" About half of all women

said yes. That was publicised as a said yes. That was publicised as a

said yes. That was publicised as a major finding. They were a bit

major finding. They were a bit major finding. They were a bit

dishonest. They didn't tell you the dishonest. They didn't tell you the

dishonest. They didn't tell you the rest of the results. The results

rest of the results. The results rest of the results. The results

rest of the results. The results also showed that half of all men

also showed that half of all men also showed that half of all men

feel discriminated against. Half of feel discriminated against. Half of

all whites feel discriminated all whites feel discriminated

all whites feel discriminated all whites feel discriminated

against. As well as half of All against. As well as half of All

against. As well as half of All Blacks. If we're all being

Blacks. If we're all being discriminated against, who's doing

discriminated against, who's doing the discriminating? We're talking

the discriminating? We're talking the discriminating? We're talking

about a level playing field. When about a level playing field. When

about a level playing field. When about a level playing field. When

you go to the new societies and you go to the new societies and

you go to the new societies and younger women getting involved in

younger women getting involved in younger women getting involved in

the feminist movement what are the the feminist movement what are the

the feminist movement what are the headlines of the agenda today? We

headlines of the agenda today? We headlines of the agenda today? We

headlines of the agenda today? We know what the headlines were in the

know what the headlines were in the know what the headlines were in the

know what the headlines were in the 60s and 70s. Some of that has been

60s and 70s. Some of that has been 60s and 70s. Some of that has been

achieved. What is a feminist agenda achieved. What is a feminist agenda

achieved. What is a feminist agenda achieved. What is a feminist agenda

in Britain for the 21st century? in Britain for the 21st century?

certainly think it's really certainly think it's really

certainly think it's really important that I absolutely cannot

important that I absolutely cannot important that I absolutely cannot

agree that feminism has no further agree that feminism has no further

agree that feminism has no further agree that feminism has no further

to go and equality hasn't been won. to go and equality hasn't been won.

to go and equality hasn't been won. That's the headline point. These

That's the headline point. These That's the headline point. These

young women are standing up and young women are standing up and

young women are standing up and saying it's time for equal

saying it's time for equal representation in Parliament. It's

representation in Parliament. It's time to achieve better

time to achieve better time to achieve better

representation at the tops of big representation at the tops of big

representation at the tops of big business abouts. Young women are

business abouts. Young women are business abouts. Young women are

standing up about things which standing up about things which

standing up about things which impact on them individually. Huge

impact on them individually. Huge impact on them individually. Huge

impact on them individually. Huge numbers of huge girls and women at

numbers of huge girls and women at numbers of huge girls and women at

university have been writing in university have been writing in

university have been writing in saying I've had enough of being

saying I've had enough of being saying I've had enough of being

saying I've had enough of being shouted at in the street. I've had

shouted at in the street. I've had shouted at in the street. I've had

shouted at in the street. I've had shouted at in the street. I've had

enough of going to a bar or a club enough of going to a bar or a club

enough of going to a bar or a club and actually having strangers come

and actually having strangers come and actually having strangers come

and actually having strangers come up and feel they have the right to

up and feel they have the right to up and feel they have the right to

touch me and grope me. We've touch me and grope me. We've

collected 25,000 women's collected 25,000 women's

collected 25,000 women's experiences of that kind of thing.

experiences of that kind of thing. experiences of that kind of thing.

experiences of that kind of thing. Maybe they shouldn't go to Lib Dem

Maybe they shouldn't go to Lib Dem conferences! It's interesting

conferences! It's interesting conferences! It's interesting

that's the issues that you're that's the issues that you're

that's the issues that you're talking about and that's been an

talking about and that's been an talking about and that's been an

issue for women throughout the ages. issue for women throughout the ages.

issue for women throughout the ages. issue for women throughout the ages.

But on the issues of you're still But on the issues of you're still

But on the issues of you're still way under represented in Parliament.

way under represented in Parliament. way under represented in Parliament.

On company, corporate boards you're On company, corporate boards you're

On company, corporate boards you're way under represented as well. Are

way under represented as well. Are way under represented as well. Are

these issues that matter to younger these issues that matter to younger

these issues that matter to younger these issues that matter to younger

people as well as it being safe to people as well as it being safe to

people as well as it being safe to people as well as it being safe to

go to a pub and have a drink go to a pub and have a drink

without being pestered? Absolutely. without being pestered? Absolutely.

without being pestered? Absolutely. I think these things are filtering

I think these things are filtering I think these things are filtering

I think these things are filtering down. We saw the story this week of

down. We saw the story this week of down. We saw the story this week of

world class debaters when they world class debaters when they

world class debaters when they world class debaters when they

tried to take part in a prestigious tried to take part in a prestigious

tried to take part in a prestigious debating competition at the Glasgow

debating competition at the Glasgow university union were heckled,

university union were heckled, university union were heckled,

shouted down and screamed at just shouted down and screamed at just

shouted down and screamed at just because of their sex. These young

because of their sex. These young because of their sex. These young

because of their sex. These young women are standing up and saying we

women are standing up and saying we women are standing up and saying we

women are standing up and saying we won't accept that. If you listen to

won't accept that. If you listen to won't accept that. If you listen to

won't accept that. If you listen to that, there's a long way to go and

that, there's a long way to go and that, there's a long way to go and

that, there's a long way to go and an agenda to keep femme nists busy

an agenda to keep femme nists busy an agenda to keep femme nists busy

an agenda to keep femme nists busy for the rest of this sunch ef

for the rest of this sunch ef for the rest of this sunch ef

century. Women are inclined to century. Women are inclined to

century. Women are inclined to expect Equality for women means

expect Equality for women means expect Equality for women means

expect Equality for women means some social utopia is going to be

some social utopia is going to be some social utopia is going to be

offered. That's not the real world. offered. That's not the real world.

offered. That's not the real world. Maybe just fairness rather than

Maybe just fairness rather than Maybe just fairness rather than

utopia. All that can be delivered utopia. All that can be delivered

utopia. All that can be delivered by legislation and good policy is

by legislation and good policy is by legislation and good policy is

equal opportunities. It's a tough equal opportunities. It's a tough

equal opportunities. It's a tough world out there. It's very

world out there. It's very world out there. It's very

competitive. A lot of young women competitive. A lot of young women

competitive. A lot of young women are not really prepared for the

are not really prepared for the are not really prepared for the

are not really prepared for the degree to which that's true. One of

degree to which that's true. One of degree to which that's true. One of

the most interesting results that's the most interesting results that's

the most interesting results that's been published recently in the

been published recently in the been published recently in the

Financial Times today is a study, Financial Times today is a study,

globally looking at women's globally looking at women's

globally looking at women's achievement of top management jobs

achievement of top management jobs around the world. What's

around the world. What's around the world. What's

interesting and I think is probably interesting and I think is probably

interesting and I think is probably the case, even though their measure

the case, even though their measure the case, even though their measure

the case, even though their measure is a bit wonky, is that women are

is a bit wonky, is that women are is a bit wonky, is that women are

more likely to achieve top more likely to achieve top

more likely to achieve top management positions in the BRIC

management positions in the BRIC management positions in the BRIC

countries than in the highly countries than in the highly

countries than in the highly developed economies of the Western

developed economies of the Western developed economies of the Western

developed economies of the Western world. We have this idea that we're

world. We have this idea that we're world. We have this idea that we're

world. We have this idea that we're way ahead of the game. But what

way ahead of the game. But what way ahead of the game. But what

we're doing in the Western world we're doing in the Western world

we're doing in the Western world are offering women real choices to

are offering women real choices to are offering women real choices to

stay at home and be fulltime stay at home and be fulltime

mothers, fulltime housewives if mothers, fulltime housewives if

mothers, fulltime housewives if that's what they want. Real choice

that's what they want. Real choice that's what they want. Real choice

that's what they want. Real choice to be parttime workers and have a

to be parttime workers and have a to be parttime workers and have a

to be parttime workers and have a job but not a career or to be

job but not a career or to be job but not a career or to be

careerist. That's a choice. I have careerist. That's a choice. I have

careerist. That's a choice. I have careerist. That's a choice. I have

a lot of sympathy with that. Of a lot of sympathy with that. Of

a lot of sympathy with that. Of a lot of sympathy with that. Of

course it would be nice to see more course it would be nice to see more

course it would be nice to see more women in Parliament, though the

women in Parliament, though the women in Parliament, though the

position has improved, but I do position has improved, but I do

position has improved, but I do position has improved, but I do

think that women, girls have got to think that women, girls have got to

think that women, girls have got to get off their bottoms, not get

get off their bottoms, not get get off their bottoms, not get

get off their bottoms, not get together in a great group and have

together in a great group and have together in a great group and have

together in a great group and have a movement for -- for more women,

a movement for -- for more women, a movement for -- for more women,

the women's party, they need to the women's party, they need to

the women's party, they need to stand as individuals for whatever

stand as individuals for whatever stand as individuals for whatever

stand as individuals for whatever party they want to. Agree with you

party they want to. Agree with you party they want to. Agree with you

that often we're behind other that often we're behind other

that often we're behind other countries, even behind I mean

countries, even behind I mean countries, even behind I mean

countries, even behind I mean Norway is better than us on putting

Norway is better than us on putting Norway is better than us on putting

women on boards for instance. women on boards for instance.

women on boards for instance. women on boards for instance.

had legislation put in. Yes and I had legislation put in. Yes and I

had legislation put in. Yes and I had legislation put in. Yes and I

think Spain is going to. Labour had women-only short lists. That's how

women-only short lists. That's how you make the leap forward. That's

you make the leap forward. That's you make the leap forward. That's

how you change Parliament. It's how you change Parliament. It's

how you change Parliament. It's Labour having Harriet Harman and

Labour having Harriet Harman and others. My grandmother couldn't

others. My grandmother couldn't others. My grandmother couldn't

vote. We have moved forward, but vote. We have moved forward, but

vote. We have moved forward, but women are... Are you allowed to

women are... Are you allowed to women are... Are you allowed to

women are... Are you allowed to vote? I am.How did that happen?

vote? I am.How did that happen? don't know. It's extremely

don't know. It's extremely don't know. It's extremely

disingenuous to suggest that women disingenuous to suggest that women

disingenuous to suggest that women disingenuous to suggest that women

are to blame for their own lack of are to blame for their own lack of

are to blame for their own lack of equality. Whilst it's true that

equality. Whilst it's true that equality. Whilst it's true that

women have to put themselves women have to put themselves

women have to put themselves forward, women are doing that

forward, women are doing that forward, women are doing that

actually. We've seen huge numbers actually. We've seen huge numbers

actually. We've seen huge numbers actually. We've seen huge numbers

of women in knows situations and in of women in knows situations and in

of women in knows situations and in Parliament take Stella Creasey when

Parliament take Stella Creasey when Parliament take Stella Creasey when

she's standing up in PMQ's, she she's standing up in PMQ's, she

she's standing up in PMQ's, she she's standing up in PMQ's, she

gets tweets asking her to get her gets tweets asking her to get her

gets tweets asking her to get her jugs out. I spoke to Emily

jugs out. I spoke to Emily jugs out. I spoke to Emily

jugs out. I spoke to Emily Thornbury and she said when she was

Thornbury and she said when she was Thornbury and she said when she was

running for office eight years ago running for office eight years ago

running for office eight years ago she received so many death threats

she received so many death threats she received so many death threats

she received so many death threats because she was a woman running for

because she was a woman running for because she was a woman running for

Parliament, she had to move your Parliament, she had to move your

Parliament, she had to move your children out of her home. You're

children out of her home. You're children out of her home. You're

children out of her home. You're never going to stop men leering at

never going to stop men leering at never going to stop men leering at

never going to stop men leering at women. That is the way of the world

women. That is the way of the world women. That is the way of the world

I'm afraid. You've both said that's I'm afraid. You've both said that's

I'm afraid. You've both said that's I'm afraid. You've both said that's

the way of the world. I'm not the way of the world. I'm not

the way of the world. I'm not the way of the world. I'm not

prepared to accept when you look at prepared to accept when you look at

prepared to accept when you look at the fact that research this week

the fact that research this week the fact that research this week

the fact that research this week has shown that we have the highest

has shown that we have the highest has shown that we have the highest

level of young girls in this level of young girls in this

level of young girls in this country at risk of female genital

country at risk of female genital country at risk of female genital

mutilation of anywhere in the world, mutilation of anywhere in the world,

mutilation of anywhere in the world, that over 400,000 women are

that over 400,000 women are that over 400,000 women are

sexually assaulted each year, and sexually assaulted each year, and

sexually assaulted each year, and 80,000 raped each year, I'm not

80,000 raped each year, I'm not 80,000 raped each year, I'm not

prepared to say there's no further prepared to say there's no further

prepared to say there's no further for the feminism movement to go.

for the feminism movement to go. for the feminism movement to go.

for the feminism movement to go. But she's young and ready to change

But she's young and ready to change But she's young and ready to change

it. Absolutely. And so are it. Absolutely. And so are

it. Absolutely. And so are thousands of others in this country.

thousands of others in this country. thousands of others in this country.

Can I bring in the international Can I bring in the international

Can I bring in the international scene, you can have an argument

scene, you can have an argument scene, you can have an argument

about how far women's rights have about how far women's rights have

about how far women's rights have about how far women's rights have

gone in Britain and how far they gone in Britain and how far they

gone in Britain and how far they have to go. But there are

have to go. But there are horrendous examples of maltreatment

horrendous examples of maltreatment horrendous examples of maltreatment

and discrimination against women in and discrimination against women in

countries like China, India, countries like China, India,

countries like China, India, Pakistan, correct? There is a big

Pakistan, correct? There is a big Pakistan, correct? There is a big

Pakistan, correct? There is a big plight there. There was a rape in

plight there. There was a rape in India which attracted great

India which attracted great India which attracted great

attention, yes. That's it, yes? attention, yes. That's it, yes?

attention, yes. That's it, yes? one in three women will be

one in three women will be one in three women will be

subjected to rape in her lifetime. subjected to rape in her lifetime.

Sexual violence is regularly Sexual violence is regularly

expanded to mean everything expanded to mean everything

included occasional touching. included occasional touching.

included occasional touching. interesting that you should say

interesting that you should say interesting that you should say

interesting that you should say that, under the law in this country,

that, under the law in this country, that, under the law in this country,

that, under the law in this country, if somebody touches you in a sexual

if somebody touches you in a sexual if somebody touches you in a sexual

way without content that is defined way without content that is defined

way without content that is defined way without content that is defined

as sexual assault. As we've seen in as sexual assault. As we've seen in

as sexual assault. As we've seen in the media, when these stories come

the media, when these stories come the media, when these stories come

up, we see countless articles TV up, we see countless articles TV

up, we see countless articles TV shows saying should women put up

shows saying should women put up shows saying should women put up

shows saying should women put up with a bit of touching s, a grope

with a bit of touching s, a grope with a bit of touching s, a grope

with a bit of touching s, a grope really such a big deal? Hang on,

really such a big deal? Hang on, really such a big deal? Hang on,

this is something that women are this is something that women are

this is something that women are protected from under the law. It's

protected from under the law. It's protected from under the law. It's

defined as sexual assault and we're defined as sexual assault and we're

defined as sexual assault and we're debating whether women should put

debating whether women should put debating whether women should put

up with it. They're protected by up with it. They're protected by

up with it. They're protected by law. Social attitudes need to

law. Social attitudes need to law. Social attitudes need to

change. That's why feminism is such change. That's why feminism is such

change. That's why feminism is such a lively movement today. You've

a lively movement today. You've a lively movement today. You've

a lively movement today. You've come on and told us what you're

come on and told us what you're come on and told us what you're

doing on International Women's Day. doing on International Women's Day.

Thank you both. Thank you both.

Thank you both. Thank you both.

Now some things in life are certain Now some things in life are certain

Now some things in life are certain - death, taxes, Justin Bieber being

- death, taxes, Justin Bieber being - death, taxes, Justin Bieber being

late for the next concert, then late for the next concert, then

late for the next concert, then there's the outko. Referendum this

there's the outko. Referendum this there's the outko. Referendum this

weekend in the Falklands asking weekend in the Falklands asking

weekend in the Falklands asking islanders whether they witch to

islanders whether they witch to islanders whether they witch to

remain a British overseas territory. remain a British overseas territory.

remain a British overseas territory. remain a British overseas territory.

We know the answer already, so what We know the answer already, so what

We know the answer already, so what We know the answer already, so what

is the point of the question. Let's is the point of the question. Let's

is the point of the question. Let's go to Caroline Wyatt in Port

go to Caroline Wyatt in Port go to Caroline Wyatt in Port

Stanley. We know the result already, Stanley. We know the result already,

Stanley. We know the result already, Stanley. We know the result already,

it will be a huge vote for the it will be a huge vote for the

it will be a huge vote for the Falklands to stay "British". I

Falklands to stay "British". I Falklands to stay "British". I

suggest they will take things suggest they will take things

suggest they will take things seriously. What is the mood? Well,

seriously. What is the mood? Well, seriously. What is the mood? Well,

it's interesting that you say that. it's interesting that you say that.

it's interesting that you say that. We've been asking people, why, when

We've been asking people, why, when We've been asking people, why, when

it seems pretty clear from every it seems pretty clear from every

it seems pretty clear from every single person we've spoken to that

single person we've spoken to that single person we've spoken to that

single person we've spoken to that they will vote yes, why have the

they will vote yes, why have the they will vote yes, why have the

they will vote yes, why have the referendum at all? It's not so that

referendum at all? It's not so that referendum at all? It's not so that

the Falkland islanders know what the Falkland islanders know what

the Falkland islanders know what they want, it's so that Argentina,

they want, it's so that Argentina, they want, it's so that Argentina,

they want, it's so that Argentina, the rest of the world can hear the

the rest of the world can hear the the rest of the world can hear the

voice of the Falkland islanders. voice of the Falkland islanders.

voice of the Falkland islanders. They have been deeply stung not

They have been deeply stung not They have been deeply stung not

just by Argentina's constant, what just by Argentina's constant, what

just by Argentina's constant, what they see as bullying, harassing

they see as bullying, harassing they see as bullying, harassing

fishing ships, trying to stop fishing ships, trying to stop

economic activity here, but economic activity here, but

economic activity here, but continuing to claim the Falklands

continuing to claim the Falklands continuing to claim the Falklands

continuing to claim the Falklands as their own. Other the other week

as their own. Other the other week the Argentinian Foreign Minister

the Argentinian Foreign Minister the Argentinian Foreign Minister

the Argentinian Foreign Minister when he went to London saying that

when he went to London saying that when he went to London saying that

the Falkland islanders didn't count the Falkland islanders didn't count

the Falkland islanders didn't count because they were British implants,

because they were British implants, because they were British implants,

not a native population. The not a native population. The

not a native population. The islanders here are very determined

islanders here are very determined islanders here are very determined

islanders here are very determined to go to the polls this Sunday and

to go to the polls this Sunday and to go to the polls this Sunday and

Monday. To make their voices heard Monday. To make their voices heard

Monday. To make their voices heard Monday. To make their voices heard

and say to the world, this is what and say to the world, this is what

and say to the world, this is what and say to the world, this is what

we want. The question is simple. It we want. The question is simple. It

we want. The question is simple. It is "Do you wish the Falkland

is "Do you wish the Falkland is "Do you wish the Falkland

Islands to retain their current Islands to retain their current

Islands to retain their current political status as an overseas

political status as an overseas political status as an overseas

territory of the United Kingdom - territory of the United Kingdom -

territory of the United Kingdom - territory of the United Kingdom -

yes or no?" So far we haven't found yes or no?" So far we haven't found

yes or no?" So far we haven't found a single No voteer yet.

a single No voteer yet. a single No voteer yet.

Do the Falkland islanders feel that Do the Falkland islanders feel that

Do the Falkland islanders feel that Do the Falkland islanders feel that

they may be near unanimous in their they may be near unanimous in their

they may be near unanimous in their desire to stay a British overseas

desire to stay a British overseas desire to stay a British overseas

territory, but no matter how big territory, but no matter how big

territory, but no matter how big the majority for, that the

the majority for, that the the majority for, that the

Argentineans might not take a blind Argentineans might not take a blind

Argentineans might not take a blind Argentineans might not take a blind

bit of notice of it? I think there bit of notice of it? I think there

bit of notice of it? I think there is that fear. People here would

is that fear. People here would is that fear. People here would

is that fear. People here would love Argentina to listen. A lot of

love Argentina to listen. A lot of love Argentina to listen. A lot of

love Argentina to listen. A lot of them say that it's being used, the

them say that it's being used, the them say that it's being used, the

Falklands, as a domestic political Falklands, as a domestic political

Falklands, as a domestic political Falklands, as a domestic political

issue to carry popularity at a time issue to carry popularity at a time

issue to carry popularity at a time of great economic difficulty. What

of great economic difficulty. What of great economic difficulty. What

has worried them over the past has worried them over the past

has worried them over the past has worried them over the past

years is the stuff that's been put years is the stuff that's been put

years is the stuff that's been put out by Buenos Aries is being

out by Buenos Aries is being believed about the Falkland

believed about the Falkland believed about the Falkland

islanders not having a legitimate islanders not having a legitimate

islanders not having a legitimate claim. That's where the referendum

claim. That's where the referendum claim. That's where the referendum

claim. That's where the referendum is aimed, at other nations in South

is aimed, at other nations in South is aimed, at other nations in South

America, to America for example, America, to America for example,

America, to America for example, because John Kerry was very non-

because John Kerry was very non- because John Kerry was very non-

because John Kerry was very non- committal when he came to the UK

committal when he came to the UK committal when he came to the UK

when asked what America's position when asked what America's position

when asked what America's position when asked what America's position

was. He didn't seem keen to comment was. He didn't seem keen to comment

was. He didn't seem keen to comment was. He didn't seem keen to comment

on it. They would really like to on it. They would really like to

on it. They would really like to on it. They would really like to

try and get the support of America try and get the support of America

try and get the support of America try and get the support of America

and other allies and within the UN and other allies and within the UN

and other allies and within the UN and other allies and within the UN

as well, where this is still being as well, where this is still being

as well, where this is still being discussed as an issue within the

discussed as an issue within the UN's decolonisation committee.

UN's decolonisation committee. final question, it's interesting,

final question, it's interesting, final question, it's interesting,

there are now substantial British there are now substantial British

forces defending the Falklands, forces defending the Falklands,

forces defending the Falklands, unlike the situation in 1982. My

unlike the situation in 1982. My understanding is that the

understanding is that the understanding is that the

Argentinian military is, it hasn't Argentinian military is, it hasn't

Argentinian military is, it hasn't been modernised, it's still the

been modernised, it's still the been modernised, it's still the

been modernised, it's still the same it was in 1982, unlike the

same it was in 1982, unlike the same it was in 1982, unlike the

British military, which is hugely British military, which is hugely

British military, which is hugely modernised. Is there any real fear

modernised. Is there any real fear modernised. Is there any real fear

in the Falklands that there could in the Falklands that there could

in the Falklands that there could be another invasion? I've asked a

be another invasion? I've asked a be another invasion? I've asked a

be another invasion? I've asked a lot of people this and you get

lot of people this and you get lot of people this and you get

different answers. For the most different answers. For the most

different answers. For the most part people say no. They don't

part people say no. They don't part people say no. They don't

part people say no. They don't believe it. They think it will be

believe it. They think it will be believe it. They think it will be

believe it. They think it will be confined to rhetoric and it will be

confined to rhetoric and it will be confined to rhetoric and it will be

confined to rhetoric and it will be a war of words. Though Argentina is

a war of words. Though Argentina is a war of words. Though Argentina is

a war of words. Though Argentina is not in a fit state militarily to

not in a fit state militarily to not in a fit state militarily to

not in a fit state militarily to try to launch anything. I asked a

try to launch anything. I asked a local representative yesterday here

local representative yesterday here local representative yesterday here

local representative yesterday here what she thought and she said well

what she thought and she said well what she thought and she said well

we really don't believe that we really don't believe that

we really don't believe that anything military would happen from

anything military would happen from anything military would happen from

Argentina, but we think there could Argentina, but we think there could

Argentina, but we think there could Argentina, but we think there could

be a stunt of some sort. They've be a stunt of some sort. They've

had incidents where Argentineans had incidents where Argentineans

had incidents where Argentineans coming over here have planted flags,

coming over here have planted flags, coming over here have planted flags,

for example. You saw during the for example. You saw during the

for example. You saw during the for example. You saw during the

London Olympics that ad put out by London Olympics that ad put out by

London Olympics that ad put out by Argentina with one of their runners

Argentina with one of their runners Argentina with one of their runners

saying we train on Argentinian soil saying we train on Argentinian soil

saying we train on Argentinian soil saying we train on Argentinian soil

to run on British soil which was to run on British soil which was

to run on British soil which was filmed in a guerrilla campaign here

filmed in a guerrilla campaign here filmed in a guerrilla campaign here

filmed in a guerrilla campaign here on one of the war memorials here.

on one of the war memorials here. on one of the war memorials here.

on one of the war memorials here. No, I don't think there's a real

No, I don't think there's a real No, I don't think there's a real

fear of military invasion. But the fear of military invasion. But the

fear of military invasion. But the eknom tactics, not allowing screws

eknom tactics, not allowing screws eknom tactics, not allowing screws

ships to land in Argentina in ships to land in Argentina in

ships to land in Argentina in ships to land in Argentina in

they've landed here, and the war of they've landed here, and the war of

they've landed here, and the war of words over the potentially rich oil

words over the potentially rich oil words over the potentially rich oil

fields. That looks likely to get fields. That looks likely to get

fields. That looks likely to get worse, with Argentina trying to

worse, with Argentina trying to worse, with Argentina trying to

rally support in South America to rally support in South America to

rally support in South America to keep Falkland islanders out of

keep Falkland islanders out of keep Falkland islanders out of

international symposium so if they international symposium so if they

international symposium so if they try to go to international

try to go to international conference on fishing Argentina

conference on fishing Argentina conference on fishing Argentina

conference on fishing Argentina will ask organise ez not to allow

will ask organise ez not to allow will ask organise ez not to allow

will ask organise ez not to allow them to come. Those are the daily

them to come. Those are the daily them to come. Those are the daily

harassment they would like to see harassment they would like to see

We are joined now by the We are joined now by the

Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell, Conservative MP Andrew Rosindell,

secretary of the all-party secretary of the all-party

Parliamentary group on the Parliamentary group on the

Parliamentary group on the Falklands. I guess the danger is

Falklands. I guess the danger is Falklands. I guess the danger is

that the Falklands people will that the Falklands people will

clearly voted overwhelmingly to clearly voted overwhelmingly to

clearly voted overwhelmingly to retain their existing status, but it

retain their existing status, but it retain their existing status, but it

will not make any difference not will not make any difference not

will not make any difference not just to Argentina, but to the

just to Argentina, but to the just to Argentina, but to the

increasing voices that Argentina can increasing voices that Argentina can

increasing voices that Argentina can increasing voices that Argentina can

count on as allies in South America? count on as allies in South America?

count on as allies in South America? count on as allies in South America?

count on as allies in South America? I am not sure in the long term that

I am not sure in the long term that I am not sure in the long term that

the so-called allies of Argentina the so-called allies of Argentina

the so-called allies of Argentina are that supportive. They are just

are that supportive. They are just are that supportive. They are just

fed up with Argentina continuously fed up with Argentina continuously

fed up with Argentina continuously going on about this subject. The

going on about this subject. The going on about this subject. The

going on about this subject. The idea of having a referendum is to

idea of having a referendum is to idea of having a referendum is to

idea of having a referendum is to make it clear to the world that

make it clear to the world that make it clear to the world that

actually, the people of the Falkland actually, the people of the Falkland

actually, the people of the Falkland Islands, like any other colony,

Islands, like any other colony, Islands, like any other colony,

should have the right to determine should have the right to determine

should have the right to determine their own future. When that result

their own future. When that result is known, any self-respecting

is known, any self-respecting is known, any self-respecting

democracy would say actually, the democracy would say actually, the

democracy would say actually, the Falkland Islanders have the right to

Falkland Islanders have the right to Falkland Islanders have the right to

make that decision. That is make that decision. That is

make that decision. That is absolutely right. The object of the

absolutely right. The object of the absolutely right. The object of the

exercise must be to stop Argentina exercise must be to stop Argentina

exercise must be to stop Argentina saying, it is just a British

saying, it is just a British saying, it is just a British

saying, it is just a British colony, and to show that it is

colony, and to show that it is self-determination. That will make

self-determination. That will make self-determination. That will make

self-determination. That will make it harder for the rest of the world

it harder for the rest of the world it harder for the rest of the world

it harder for the rest of the world to say oh, well, it is all

to say oh, well, it is all to say oh, well, it is all

to say oh, well, it is all colonialism and we have to get rid

colonialism and we have to get rid colonialism and we have to get rid

colonialism and we have to get rid of it. Andrew, as part of an

of it. Andrew, as part of an of it. Andrew, as part of an

all-party group, I would not have all-party group, I would not have

all-party group, I would not have thought that there is any argument

thought that there is any argument thought that there is any argument

thought that there is any argument with that apart from on the left

with that apart from on the left with that apart from on the left

fringes of Labour? They are witty fringes of Labour? They are witty

fringes of Labour? They are witty unanimous. In 1982, Michael foot was

unanimous. In 1982, Michael foot was unanimous. In 1982, Michael foot was

unanimous. In 1982, Michael foot was in favour of sending in a task

in favour of sending in a task in favour of sending in a task

force. What the Falkland Islands are force. What the Falkland Islands are

force. What the Falkland Islands are doing is what the Gibraltar

doing is what the Gibraltar doing is what the Gibraltar

residents did ten years ago. They residents did ten years ago. They

residents did ten years ago. They organised their own referendum. The

organised their own referendum. The organised their own referendum. The

organised their own referendum. The foreign office, as well as Spain and

foreign office, as well as Spain and foreign office, as well as Spain and

Gibraltar, were told, look, we want Gibraltar, were told, look, we want

Gibraltar, were told, look, we want Gibraltar, were told, look, we want

to remain part of Britain. It is a to remain part of Britain. It is a

to remain part of Britain. It is a to remain part of Britain. It is a

political issue, but it is also a political issue, but it is also a

problem with Britain's relations problem with Britain's relations

problem with Britain's relations problem with Britain's relations

with the rest of South America. with the rest of South America.

with the rest of South America. with the rest of South America.

you think they are just doing it you think they are just doing it

you think they are just doing it you think they are just doing it

when there is no real support for when there is no real support for

when there is no real support for Argentina? What is your evidence for

Argentina? What is your evidence for Argentina? What is your evidence for

that? Most Latin American countries that? Most Latin American countries

that? Most Latin American countries will of course support Argentina

will of course support Argentina will of course support Argentina

publicly, but privately, it is not publicly, but privately, it is not

publicly, but privately, it is not publicly, but privately, it is not

an issue for them will stop the an issue for them will stop the

an issue for them will stop the Falkland Islanders have that right

Falkland Islanders have that right Falkland Islanders have that right

of self-determination. They are not of self-determination. They are not

of self-determination. They are not a colony, they are a British

a colony, they are a British a colony, they are a British

overseas territory. I would favour overseas territory. I would favour

overseas territory. I would favour joint sovereignty, if you could do

joint sovereignty, if you could do joint sovereignty, if you could do

it. America would like the problem it. America would like the problem

it. America would like the problem settled. How can you have joint

settled. How can you have joint settled. How can you have joint

sovereignty of the will of the sovereignty of the will of the

sovereignty of the will of the sovereignty of the will of the

people is clear that they want to people is clear that they want to

people is clear that they want to remain British? You could treat it

remain British? You could treat it remain British? You could treat it

remain British? You could treat it like a passport to Pimlico and say,

like a passport to Pimlico and say, like a passport to Pimlico and say,

like a passport to Pimlico and say, you can do what you like. You have

you can do what you like. You have you can do what you like. You have

to take the view of everybody. to take the view of everybody.

to take the view of everybody. Wouldn't the view of joint

Wouldn't the view of joint Wouldn't the view of joint

sovereignty be that the Argentinians sovereignty be that the Argentinians

sovereignty be that the Argentinians would then ship in 5000 Argentinians

would then ship in 5000 Argentinians would then ship in 5000 Argentinians

and have another referendum? I am and have another referendum? I am

and have another referendum? I am and have another referendum? I am

sure they would. But you could have sure they would. But you could have

sure they would. But you could have immigration rules to deal with it.

immigration rules to deal with it. immigration rules to deal with it.

immigration rules to deal with it. And Buenos Aires have got it wrong.

And Buenos Aires have got it wrong. And Buenos Aires have got it wrong.

And Buenos Aires have got it wrong. They should try to coax them with

They should try to coax them with They should try to coax them with

kind person, not cruise ships. kind person, not cruise ships.

kind person, not cruise ships. kind person, not cruise ships.

their economy is in a mess. But it their economy is in a mess. But it

their economy is in a mess. But it their economy is in a mess. But it

is a democracy, so I don't think is a democracy, so I don't think

is a democracy, so I don't think there is much chance of an

there is much chance of an there is much chance of an

invasion. Tony Blair got a bloody invasion. Tony Blair got a bloody

invasion. Tony Blair got a bloody invasion. Tony Blair got a bloody

nose when they tried to impose joint nose when they tried to impose joint

nose when they tried to impose joint sovereignty on Gibraltar. If we knew

sovereignty on Gibraltar. If we knew sovereignty on Gibraltar. If we knew

sovereignty on Gibraltar. If we knew sovereignty on Gibraltar. If we knew

the costs of how much it was to have the costs of how much it was to have

the costs of how much it was to have a garrison town, public opinion

a garrison town, public opinion a garrison town, public opinion

might change. I know the Foreign might change. I know the Foreign

might change. I know the Foreign might change. I know the Foreign

Office want to hang onto it for the Office want to hang onto it for the

Office want to hang onto it for the Office want to hang onto it for the

mineral rights. Is that an issue for mineral rights. Is that an issue for

mineral rights. Is that an issue for Britain, that it looks like there

Britain, that it looks like there Britain, that it looks like there

Britain, that it looks like there was a lot of oil under the seat?

was a lot of oil under the seat? was a lot of oil under the seat?

was a lot of oil under the seat? Quite clearly. They admit it on the

Quite clearly. They admit it on the Quite clearly. They admit it on the

Quite clearly. They admit it on the sly. There are likely to be all and

sly. There are likely to be all and sly. There are likely to be all and

reserves there, and no doubt the reserves there, and no doubt the

Falkland Islanders will contribute Falkland Islanders will contribute

Falkland Islanders will contribute Falkland Islanders will contribute

towards the cost of their defence if towards the cost of their defence if

towards the cost of their defence if towards the cost of their defence if

they have the resources to do so. they have the resources to do so.

they have the resources to do so. they have the resources to do so.

But the idea that you don't defend But the idea that you don't defend

But the idea that you don't defend British citizens purely because it

British citizens purely because it British citizens purely because it

is costing money is a bizarre is costing money is a bizarre

is costing money is a bizarre is costing money is a bizarre

notion. We are not going to send a notion. We are not going to send a

notion. We are not going to send a task force birth. The British people

task force birth. The British people task force birth. The British people

would support the Falkland Islanders would support the Falkland Islanders

would support the Falkland Islanders would support the Falkland Islanders

in such a situation. The prospect of in such a situation. The prospect of

in such a situation. The prospect of another war is unlikely. Are you

another war is unlikely. Are you another war is unlikely. Are you

confident that we have sufficient confident that we have sufficient

confident that we have sufficient confident that we have sufficient

forces in the Falklands to deter any forces in the Falklands to deter any

forces in the Falklands to deter any military intervention? I just came

military intervention? I just came military intervention? I just came

back from the Falkland Islands a back from the Falkland Islands a

back from the Falkland Islands a couple of weeks ago. Speaking to

couple of weeks ago. Speaking to couple of weeks ago. Speaking to

everybody there, speaking to the everybody there, speaking to the

everybody there, speaking to the commander of British forces, they

commander of British forces, they commander of British forces, they

assure me that there were sufficient assure me that there were sufficient

assure me that there were sufficient defence for such an eventuality.

defence for such an eventuality. defence for such an eventuality.

Ministers have also assured me about Ministers have also assured me about

Ministers have also assured me about any government that failed to defend

any government that failed to defend any government that failed to defend

the Falklands after Mrs Thatcher did the Falklands after Mrs Thatcher did

the Falklands after Mrs Thatcher did the Falklands after Mrs Thatcher did

so much to rescue those islands in so much to rescue those islands in

so much to rescue those islands in 1982, any government that let that

1982, any government that let that 1982, any government that let that

happen not last very long. happen not last very long.

happen not last very long. happen not last very long.

Now, it is not just the Liberal Now, it is not just the Liberal

Now, it is not just the Liberal Democrats who have been embroiled in

Democrats who have been embroiled in allegations of sexual misconduct.

allegations of sexual misconduct. allegations of sexual misconduct.

The Socialist Workers Party has been The Socialist Workers Party has been

The Socialist Workers Party has been criticised for its handling of rape

criticised for its handling of rape criticised for its handling of rape

allegations against a senior party allegations against a senior party

allegations against a senior party member. The accused denied them and

member. The accused denied them and member. The accused denied them and

the internal enquiry agreed. They the internal enquiry agreed. They

the internal enquiry agreed. They had an internal enquiry rather than

had an internal enquiry rather than had an internal enquiry rather than

the bourgeois capitalist courts. The the bourgeois capitalist courts. The

the bourgeois capitalist courts. The the bourgeois capitalist courts. The

crisis that followed has led some to crisis that followed has led some to

crisis that followed has led some to question the existence of the far

question the existence of the far question the existence of the far

question the existence of the far left party. So much so that they

left party. So much so that they left party. So much so that they

left party. So much so that they plan to hold a special conference to

plan to hold a special conference to plan to hold a special conference to

address the issue this weekend. address the issue this weekend.