Browse content similar to 25/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Welcome to the Daily Politics. George Osborne was probably a bit | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
chirpier over the breakfast table this morning. Latest figures show | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
the UK has avoided a triple dip recession, something which might | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
have given the Chancellor a rather large headache. Preliminary | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
estimates for economic output, known as GDP, show the economy grew | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
by 0.3% in the first three months of the year, a little more than | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
analysts had predicted. Mr Osborne says the economy is on the up. | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
Labour say it is flat-lining. Danny Alexander and Ed Balls will be here. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
So too will Olympic hero Chris Boardman, demanding safer streets | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
for the our growing number of cyclists. Nice hats. Parliament | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
porogues this afternoon. And if you don't know what that means, don't | :01:24. | :01:34. | |
:01:34. | :01:35. | ||
And should we be tuning into something like this? One Tory MP | :01:35. | :01:45. | |
:01:45. | :01:45. | ||
will be advertising the art of All that and more coming up in the | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
next hour and with us for the duration is the economist and | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
author Will Hutton. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now first this | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
morning let's talk about the economy, because you will all be | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
relieved to hear that we are not in a triple dip recession. Figures | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
released this morning show the economy grew by 0.3% in the first | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
three months of this year. Since they came to power in May 2010, the | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
economy has put David Cameron and George Osborne in a bit of a spin. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
After an upward tick in the first three months after they were | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
elected, the economy shrank by 0.4% in the final few months of 2010. | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
Then, in 2011, the economy bumped along, growing by 0.5%, then 0.1%, | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
then 0.6% but then, in the last quarter, the economy shrank and | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
then it shrank in the next quarter as well. It fell into recession at | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
the start of 2012. This was the famous double dip as it was the | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
second recession since the crash of 2008. After shrinking for nine | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
months, herald the Olympic boost, which helped the economy return to | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
growth. But then, in the last quarter of 2012, the economy once | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
again shrank by 0.3%. So, if today's figure had been negative, | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
it would have meant another recession and triple dip. But | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
instead, much to the Chancellor's relief it grew - by 0.3%! Well, who | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
better than our guest of the day, Will Hutton to discuss this and | :03:12. | :03:20. | |
Roger Bootle from Capital Economics. I put it to you that, politically | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
and psychologically, this has been a boost for George Osborne. | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
Economically, it is meaningless. agree with you. 0.3%, better than a | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
fall, but it is reputedly week. It has been up and down all over the | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
place but going nowhere. It could be the beginning of a Pickup but it | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
is far too early. The you would not want to talk about green shoots? We | :03:53. | :04:00. | |
to blame the policies of the Chancellor? Partly, yes. -- would | :04:00. | :04:09. | |
you blame? Fiscal policy has been tighter than I would have liked. It | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
is not only the Government. We have extreme weakness in the eurozone. | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
The banks are very weak and real incomes are being squeezed. | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
Inflation is much higher than average wage rises and that is | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
hitting people in the pocket. It is not all the fault of the Government. | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
Would you like there to be a change of direction? We would like to see | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
a boost to public investment. it have been any different had | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Labour won the election in 2010? Would growth levels look any | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
different? I think they would be a bit higher. Alistair Darling, the | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
then Chancellor, his approach on investment was slightly more | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
accommodating than that of George Osborne. He was going to cut | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
capital spending as well. He was. Things like Regional Development | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
Agency did not have been scrapped. There is geography about this. | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
Production industries and manufacturing within the overall | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
total are well down compared with five years ago. We need to get | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
serious for a second. Here we are, in 2013, five years into the | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
slowest recovery we have seen for more than 100 years. It is really | :05:30. | :05:37. | |
squeezed. Manufacturing is 10% lower than it was five years ago. | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
Production is 13% lower than five years give. We have seen nothing | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
like this in modern times. -- five years ago. If you are watching this | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
programme outside London, in the manufacturing centre in the north- | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
west or Midlands, these parts of the country are in real trouble. | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Incomes are squeezed. It is desperate conditions for our fellow | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
citizens. I do not think there is any sense of urgency or | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
mobilisation. We have a series of palliatives and tweaks by the | :06:11. | :06:20. | |
Government tried to move towards an industrial policy in banking reform | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
but not determined enough. George Osborne lawyers said that spending | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
more and borrowing more would actually have a more detrimental | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
effect on the economy. Was he wrong? It is all a matter of degree. | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
If the governor where to go on a great spending splurge, that would | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
be self-defeating and extremely dangerous. -- the Government. It | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
would be quite possible to imagine a moderate increase to public | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
investment, funded by more borrowing. The idea the markets are | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
going to take fright is ludicrous. The IMF has said that fiscal policy | :06:57. | :07:05. | |
in Britain is too tight. Two credit agencies have both downgraded | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
British debt, not because of the overwhelming size, but because | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
growth prospects are so weak. That is the heart of it. When you can | :07:14. | :07:21. | |
borrow money for the lowest levels -- at the lowest levels for three | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
years, to not do that and say there is a debt crisis, debt has been | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
much higher during other periods of history. It is not a crisis of | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
public debt. Credibility is very important. To agree it would have | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
been impossible for George Osborne to signal a change because he | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
staked his political career on austerity that he started out on in | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
2010? It would not be easy. That is what politicians were good at. You | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
make a big distinction between public investment and public | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
spending. You call it something different. Gordon Brown was to ring | :08:00. | :08:09. | |
us all the time and there must be a way forward. Let's gauge what | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
people think outside in the real world. It is hard to imagine but | :08:16. | :08:24. | |
there are some people who are not that bothered about economic | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
statistics. They just want to choose a patio. A lot of Cotswold | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
stone in this part of the world. This man has been laying them for | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
40 years. You have been in this game as a builder for about 30 | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
years. How are things? In the 80s, fantastic times. Now we have come | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
upon a time where it is basically a struggle. Once upon a time, we | :08:50. | :08:57. | |
would get four, five out of 10 jobs, now we're down to one or two. That | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
is down to a really tight margin everywhere. A lot of guys are going | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
past? Loads in my district. They are hanging on. They are fighting | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
to run the business and supply money to run the workforce. Good | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
luck with your business. Will Hutton mention that construction | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
has been down consistently. No worries about a triple dip in | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
construction - not even a double- dip. The building trade has been in | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
recession - one big long dip since 2008. A lot of guys looking for | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
work will come to Stella's recruitment agency. How is it at | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
the moment? The lot of people from the building and construction trade | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
- the jobs are not there. They are having to take other work in an | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
environment they are not used to. Builders like to work outside. They | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
like to use their skills and maybe not do manual work - do something | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
completely different. The rest of the economy is doing a bit better. | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
There are senior politicians listening to you right now. A | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
message from Westminster? Absolutely. I would like to see | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
more support for people on minimum wage. Help for people to take the | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
low-paid jobs and top them up so they are out working and not at | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
home on benefits. Less regulations or businesses. It is a struggle. | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
You have done my job, giving balance. A minimum wage and | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
deregulation. You will be busy next week. The big Honda factory in | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
Swindon next week begins the process of laying off nearly a | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
third of its workforce - 1000 guys leaving. Simply put, they cannot | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
sell cars in the eurozone like they used to. The man who has been | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
leading negotiations is Jim. Are the 1000 jobs were these guys in | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
Swindon? No. They maybe a few hundred but they will be low-paid, | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
part-time, contracts. Contracts that really ought truly are vacant | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
because nobody wants to do them. always talk about the unemployment | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
number - in work and out of work. You are saying the quality of work | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
has changed. Absolutely. 800 people are living Honda in the next few | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
weeks. They would have been on �30,000 the year on average. They | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
are looking for jobs that replicate that. They do not exist. Things are | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
going to be dire. They are indeed. Is this the world you live in? The | :11:39. | :11:49. | |
:11:49. | :11:50. | ||
world of endless fancy coffees and playing on computers. I have a car | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
crashing game where you have to destroy Big Ben and the London aye. | :11:55. | :12:03. | |
You love it because you made it. I do. These are doing really well. | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
Your whole industry only appeared after the recession started. People | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
seem to have money for all this stuff with tablets and the fancy | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
phones. We started the company in the recession. The Mobot app and | :12:16. | :12:26. | |
:12:26. | :12:29. | ||
gaming industry is booming. We 100 and export to 150 countries. Do you | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
not recognise this? We do but we need to encourage other companies | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
to start and grow. Significant that these gains are free. That has | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
changed the Mobot economy. Interesting. -- the mobile economy. | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
The real guys making real cars up the road are struggling. This man | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
makes virtual cars and he cannot get enough of them. With us is Ed | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
Balls. Let's keep away for virtual and go for reality. We do not have | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
a triple dip recession. That may have been something privately that | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
you would have liked to have seen better has not happened. Totally | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
opposite. It would have been terrible - unprecedented. To be | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
honest, three years of a flatlining economy, more lacklustre fears and | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
family seen living standards fall, construction workers out of work | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
with unemployment higher than 2010. The deficit not coming down. It is | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
a bad situation. I worry that we will see complacency today. They | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
should be realising this is not working. You have heard why in that | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
report. You have to realise that they must change course. White is | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
the public not back your line in terms of a mass majority? -- why | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
does the public? We should have had a big economic stimulus and should | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
be trying to boost the economy by beaming more. It has not happened | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
and still is not happening. -- booming more. If they listen to | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
your question and think, Labour, borrow more, I do not want that. | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
That reinforces a problem. I do not want to borrow more, I want to | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
borrow less. The Chancellor is borrowing 245 billion. Let me | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
explain. He is borrowing will be is his plan has failed and he has not | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
got people back to work and has not got the deficit down. Three years | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
ago - and not many of us were saying this... It is done by a | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
third because in the first year of this government, they inherited | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
from Labour the economy was growing, and implement was coming down. | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
Unemployment is now going up and the deficit is the same this year, | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
at last year and next year. It is not working. The deficit has come | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
down by a third. As you say, it will probably remain unchanged but | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
it has come down by a third. came down in the first year of the | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
Government because of the inheritance from the last Labour | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
government. They flat lined the economy. The OBR forecast has said | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
the deficit reduction plan has stalled - it has stopped. Where | :15:19. | :15:29. | |
:15:29. | :15:37. | ||
would gross be had you been How big was the American stimulus? | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
It was significant. It was huge. Is that what you would have liked to | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
have seen here? They should have been a deficit reduction plan that | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
was slow and steadier. Build houses, guaranteed jobs for young people | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
and got people back to work. News America as the comparison. It | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
was a massive stimulus, probably in the region of 50 billion. What | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
would you have done here? Here, in order to get 4% growth, is that | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
what would have been needed? irony is the stimulus... That's not | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
a stimulus getting people back to work, that's lost tax revenue and | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
more unemployment costs. To be brutally honest, this plan isn't | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
working. A steady approach would have got people back to work, got | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
the economy moving. You need that and long-term reform. Even the IMF | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
are now saying this plan is not working. They've got to slow the | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
pace of deficit reduction, get the economy moving to get the deficit | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
down. How blue -- how big with the stimulus have had to be to get 4% | :16:40. | :16:49. | |
growth? Well, you would have had to do that... You would have had to | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
spend probably two packages in two successive years of around 30 | :16:53. | :17:02. | |
billion. Would you have been prepared to do that? 1.5 to 2% GDP. | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
That would have given you a good multiplier of about three or four. | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
You would have probably have to follow through with a second or | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
third year package of a similar magnitude. Without it, with 10 or | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
�12 billion, that wouldn't have got... It's the opposite. He put up | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
VAT. The VAT rise was a disaster has hit a confidence. He said, I'm | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
going to have massive spending cuts and cut capital investment and | :17:32. | :17:39. | |
really clampdown. It was a disaster. Alastair Darling said he would | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
halve the deficit over four years. It is standing at a third. In order | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
to get the growth that has been so elusive, to be realistic about it, | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
the country would have had to have borrowed in the region of 20 to �30 | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
billion. Is that right? George Osborne has borrowed 245. I would | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
have said is lower deficit reduction plan, which would have | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
meant the deficit would have come down less fast in the early period | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
but by the end of this Parliament, in my view we would have had longer | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
-- stronger growth and less of a deficit. It is very constraining, | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
there you are, shadow chancellor, and you have to steer this path, | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
but they needed to be a stimulus package of around 30 billion in | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
2010 to 2011. I called for AV a teacup which would have been told. | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
The that would have delivered a higher growth trajectory. You might | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
have followed through with a second one, had things been faltering. | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
This would have been financed at these 300 year low interest rates. | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
But they may not have been that low. That's always been the point from | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
the government. Us interest rates may not have stayed as low as they | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
have done on our debt if there had been a plan to borrow some been in | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
the region of 30 million -- billion. The markets would have freaked. | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
That's nonsense. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I said it at the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
time. Spending plans. You would have spent a bit more, or you | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
wanted to spend a bit more. We know what the overall spending envelope | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
is going to be in 2015 to 2016, are you going to stick to the | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
Government's spending plans? not going to make any commitment | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
now. It would be irresponsible. I will not make promises until I know | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
how much of the catastrophe George Osborne is going to leave us to | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
inherit. 2 billion more in tax rises, 25 billion more in cuts. We | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
used the -- Will you stick to those broadly? I'm not going to make a | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
budget or Spending Review. Two years ahead, George Osborne, rather | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
than playing political games three years ahead, he should be having a | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
discussion about what he's going to do in the next couple of months. | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
Let's get people back to work, a compulsory jobs guarantee, a house | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
building programme and reform the banks. I do think you should be | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
talking about reform of the banks more. And also innovation and | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
investment. There's a lot of stuff to do. We are going to hear from | :20:10. | :20:18. | |
George Osborne in a moment. Is he here? No, he's just here on film. | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
think these numbers are an encouraging sign that the economy | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
is healing, despite a tough economic situation. We are making | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
progress. The people know there are still difficult decisions to be | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
taken. There's not an easy road ahead. We've got to go on | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
confronting our problems in order to be fit for the future. We have | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
encouraging signs, the deficit is down by a third, over 1 million new | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
jobs have been created in the private sector. But I have never | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
pretended that this is going to be a quick process. That was the | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
Chancellor, George Osborne. We are joined by his number two, the Chief | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
Secretary to the Treasury, Danny Alexander. The Office of National | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
Statistics say GDP is broadly flat for 18 months. George Osborne says | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
that progress. Where's the progress? We've seen figures today | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
that show that in the first quarter of this year, GDP grew by 0.3 %. | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
That is obviously welcome news. pretty flat. Especially given the | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
very tough economic environment in which this country is operating. | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
What we've seen is particularly as a result of a number of factors the | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
OBR have identified, the weight of the financial crisis and the | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
problems in our banking system. The impact of the eurozone crisis on | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
our economy. All of those things have held our economy back Bargh | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
walk. Not just the British economy. Looking at France and Germany in | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
the final quarter of last year and look at what has predicted this | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
year, it is to have an even tougher set of circumstances than the UK. | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
In those circumstances... You think you've done well. The mix of | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
policies we been pursuing is the right one for this country. But it | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
had no effect. It had no effect. If you look at growth, that ONS figure | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
is its broadly flat for 18 months, we are in the same position we were | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
six months ago. If we have a look at rebalancing the economy, would | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
you and your colleague, Vince Cable, had spoken so much about... Where | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
is it? The service sector is now above pre-recession peak. | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Production, manufacturing and construction are well below. | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
Where's the rebalancing? example, we've seen 1.3 million | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
jobs in the private sector created in this country over the last three | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
years. But answer that question. are seeing Britain exporting cars | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
to the rest of the world, a net exporter of cars, for the first | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
time for 30 years. Through the industrial strategy of Vince Cable | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
four sectors like automotive, aerospace, Hagrid technology and | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
Health Sciences, sectors that are important in many parts of the | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
countries. We are moving away from the obsession with financial | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
services and the City of London, which is what dominated the 13 | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
years of Labour government, to a country that is much more focused | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
on building up industries in a wide range of sectors. Coming back to | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
those figures, while production, manufacturing and construction | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
down? For precisely the reasons they give you a moment ago. We are | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
operating in a very tough environment, where the impact of | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
the eurozone crisis, particularly on our exports, it's much more | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
severe than anybody forecast back in 2010. Our policies can't make | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
any difference to that? They can make significant differences to | :23:34. | :23:43. | |
that. So where is it? We also need to grow our exports to the emerging | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
markets of the world, where our performance was lamentable and | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
where we have seen dramatic increases in our exports to those | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
markets over the last three years. What is behind a question is the | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
suggestion that somehow governments can wave a magic wand and deal with | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
what is the most severe financial and economic crisis this country | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
has experienced in modern times. And you can't. What we can do is | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
take the right decisions and tough decisions to rebalance our economy, | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
deal with the big problems and our public finances, key interest rates | :24:13. | :24:21. | |
low and a way that supports businesses to invest. Two points. I | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
think you are laying the foundations of an industrial policy, | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
but its tremulous and timid. The technology strategy board has only | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
got 300 million. It's a budget of a billion a year. You've got these | :24:35. | :24:41. | |
little catapults which are very good ideas, but a fifth of the size | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
of their counterparts in Germany. You are doing things that actually | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
it is done very constrained. Secondly, you need to do it more | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
determinedly. The mantle of austerity constraints, you should | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
be doing more. I don't think you are serious enough about the | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
banking crisis. I actually think we need a bad bank and to put the bad | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
debts of our banks, I think we should be talking about breaking up | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
some of our big banks, thinking seriously about putting the public | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
balance sheet behind new lending. There's a big agenda about putting | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
the banking system back on its feet. I don't think the coalition has | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
been sufficiently serious about these two things, although moving | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
in the right direction over the last few years, but these are very | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
serious times. They are very serious times. I'm grateful for | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
what you said about the industrial strategy. I would add to the things | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
that you have listed, the first time ever the UK government is | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
offering guarantees to major infrastructure projects. We just | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
saw another one announced yesterday. A massive investment in | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
apprenticeships, doubling the number of apprentices in our | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
economy, which has a great way to ensure our population get the | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
skills needed for the sorts of industries you have described. | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
Protecting the science budget, a crucial part... It's not really | :25:58. | :26:06. | |
fair... How do you go about rebalancing the economy? We agree | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
about the direction there. There's an argument about how far we can go | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
and what we can afford to do and the priorities we have all stopped | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
you froze council tax at a tax expenditure of 600 million. | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
could have let council tax to go up and that would have given you 600 | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
million to allocate to the science budget and that technology board. | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
These are big calls to make and they are not made, in my view, | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
serious enough in rejuvenating our industrial base. The pressures on | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
household budgets are also a very important part of what we have to | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
try and deal with. And those pressures are getting worse. | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
example, the council tax breeze helps with that. The massive | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
reductions in income tax through the income tax personal... We have | :26:54. | :27:04. | |
:27:04. | :27:07. | ||
championed it, as Liberal Democrats in government. There could steps. | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
No real pay increases for the last few years and, in fact, any real | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
pay increase was the road from February last year to February this | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
year. With inflation running at over 3%, you are not going to have | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
a consumer boom any time soon, are you? Of course you are right that | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
real wages are constrained. So you were worse off. That is a | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
consequence of the very severe economic challenges we face as a | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
country. The actions that we are taking, cutting income tax, Action | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
on Council Tax, reversing the massive increases in fuel duty that | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Ed Balls had planned for every word in this country. But they are not | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
working against the crisis. This is really important. You should not | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
dismiss them. These are helping people with real pressures that | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
face everybody in this country. We can't just pretend that the | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
financial crisis doesn't exist. Not take the tough decisions necessary | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
to get the public finances back inaudible start but we can help | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
people. In 2010, the economy was predicted to grow by 6.5 %. It's | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
grown by 1.2 %. Ubar admitted we'll pay has not risen. People feel | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
worse off than they did a few years ago. So the policies that you've | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
taken on not working in order to mitigate what may be coming from | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
the eurozone, and that is going to continue. What is going to change? | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
When his growth going to come back in any real sense? I don't agree | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
with your analysis. The Office for Budget Responsibility has analysed | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
what are the reasons why they are forecasting 2010 did not turn out? | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
They have identified three things. When will we see anything like 2% | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
growth? The OBR, who are independent and who we've given the | :28:52. | :28:58. | |
job... Whose forecasts have been wrong almost nine times talk of 10. | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
But they are independent. Their forecasts for growth this year of | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
0.6 %. We've seen 0.3 in the first quarter. They forecast from the | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
growth next year and the year after. We're doing everything we can to | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
reform, strengthen and rebalance our economy in very difficult | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
circumstances. What we will not do his step away from the plan for | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
dealing with the problems of our public finances. It we were to | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
follow Ed Balls' advice, if Labour were in charge, borrowing an extra | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
�200 billion. I think that would jeopardise the confidence and | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
credibility that... Why has the IMF lost faith in your strategy? | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
IMF are coming to this country to do their assessment next month. | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
Let's see what they say. They've told the Chancellor it's worried. | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
They are asking for alternatives are on the budgetary stance. What | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
we've been doing is in line with what the IMF has been recommending. | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
But they are worried about the strategy. We would all like to see | :30:02. | :30:09. | |
more growth in this country. have the scope to do it, Danny. | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
would disagree with the IMF. Your characterisation of the IMF, rather. | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
We will see what they say. If the idea that we should just borrow | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
much more money... Which you are borrowing any weight. And have a | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
consequence of our economy and a weakening of the political | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
commitment to deal with our financial problems, I think that | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
would be catastrophic. The question about being in a state to borrow | :30:35. | :30:45. | |
:30:45. | :30:50. | ||
because interest rate payments are The Government will borrow by the | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
end of this Parliament Bar more than it planned in 2010. It is how | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
you sequence this. Had there been a stimulus package in 2011, you would | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
have had a better chance to have an economy which is improving and | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
rising tax revenues and less public borrowing. It is that kind of thing | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
I have argued for since 2010. The IMF are coming around to it. | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
Interest rates are at a 300 kilos. The stock of public debt is not | :31:25. | :31:32. | |
high. -- a 300 year low. When you go into coalition with Labour after | :31:32. | :31:40. | |
the next election, I'm sure you will be doing it. I disagree with | :31:40. | :31:49. | |
what he just said! I think you know that anyway. Now should we all be | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
on our bike? Well, one man who thinks so is the Olympic cycling | :31:53. | :32:03. | |
:32:03. | :32:11. | ||
gold medalist, Chris Boardman. When I was a cyclist back in the | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
90s, they were seen as oddballs in tights. We had not won a medal | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
since the 1920s. Last year, Bradley Wiggins won the Tour de France and | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
Britain topped the medal table at the Olympic Games. More importantly, | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
all around the country, in cities, towns and villages, as a nation | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
where starting to get on our bikes. -- we are starting. Let's be frank. | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
The way we are travelling is killing us. According to in recent | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
study, there are 5.3 million deaths a year down to inactivity. We need | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
to capitalise on the bicycle as a way to improve the health and | :32:55. | :33:05. | |
wealth of our nation and improve our standard of life. We need to | :33:05. | :33:14. | |
change the culture and we -- about how use our roads. Right now, the | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
philosophy behind all of this is to keep cyclists saved by getting them | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
out of the weight of the cough. -- safe. We need to fundamentally | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
change roads, its streets and communities, making them places for | :33:30. | :33:40. | |
:33:40. | :33:48. | ||
people wear cycling is and feels a British cycling has made a great | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
journey. Now we need a bold vision from government that puts people | :33:52. | :34:02. | |
:34:02. | :34:02. | ||
You are watching the Daily Politics. Irish like to welcome our Scottish | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
viewers who have been watching First Minister's Questions. -- I | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
would like. And Chris Boardman is here and he's been joined by the | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Transport Minister, Norman Baker. You have your opportunity to put | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
everything you ever asked about why the Government is not doing enough | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
to promote cycling. This is an unusual situation. I know the | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
minister is very supportive of things we want to do. It is not | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
just about cycling, it is a bad transport and Harry do things in | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
this country. -- it is about transport and how we do things. It | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
is not a question of, should we do this? More a question of, if we do | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
not, what will it look like? people feel safe on the roads? | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
is an obstacle in the way. We make decisions emotionally. We do not do | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
it logically. We will do the easiest thing for us right now. If | :35:00. | :35:10. | |
you genuinely want people to shift, you have to make this the easiest | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
thing. How do you do that? start with a philosophy. Keep | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
cyclists saved by ridding them out of the wake of the car. That is not | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
working. -- cyclists safe by moving them out of the way. The philosophy | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
needs to be, how do we make this something that people want to do? | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
From a government point of view, that is quite difficult. Cycling is | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
good for the Environment, good for health and good for the economy, so | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
everyone is signed up to this. People are not cycling any more. | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
They are beginning to. In London, attention has been given to the | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
issue and levels are going up. There is a perception of safety. At | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
least saved thing you can do is to sit around, watching television all | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
day rather than go on your bike. is quite intimidating if you are | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
riding around the centre of London, particularly if you are not a | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
brilliant cyclist and you are not very confident. People do want | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
separation from cars. In some places, it is appropriate. In other | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
places, it is possible to arrange the vote in a way that cyclists can | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
feel safe. In London may feel safer because there are more of them. | :36:36. | :36:46. | |
Where it is unsafe if you only have a few of a day. I lived in | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
Switzerland where there were cycle parks especially built. The same | :36:50. | :36:58. | |
story in Austria. Even in parts of New England. It seems to me a | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
friend of mine, whose son is a keen cyclist, a few of his friends have | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
died in cycling instance. It is not very safe - cycling. I want to | :37:10. | :37:19. | |
cycle. I came here on Boris bike. It is perilous. Getting more of a | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
sense of drivers being more careful about cyclists but also being well | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
protected places for cyclists to cycle. I do not agree it is | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
perilous. You do not think so. How many near-misses have you had? | :37:35. | :37:45. | |
:37:45. | :37:45. | ||
cannot remember. I'm not saying there have are not been accidents, | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
there have. I want speed limits to be reduced to 20 miles an hour. | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
They are putting up mirrors at junctions. Where it is unsafe is | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
where lorries and buses turn left and catch cyclists on the inside. | :38:03. | :38:10. | |
Those things will happen, or will they? What about local councils? Do | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
they not make decisions which would help locally? They do. There is a | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
brand new sum of money into Jews by the Government. 96 different | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
cycling schemes which deal with safety issues and off-road issues. | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
Wouldn't we like to have cities more like Amsterdam and cities in | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Switzerland and Germany? We all would. What is the level of | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
commitment to make that happen? Funding has been announced and that | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
is all positive. If you put that into perspective, that is what | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
needs to be looked at. We need to incorporate this into how we get | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
around. This document that came out yesterday - There is one sentence | :38:56. | :39:02. | |
in it which is more important than anything else. The recommendation | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
is a statue to require that cyclists and pedestrians need to | :39:05. | :39:15. | |
:39:15. | :39:15. | ||
continue at an early stage of any to that meant. -- a statutory | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
requirement. Is there going to be a statutory commitment? We will look | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
at all the recommendations. That sounds like a gnome. It is not. The | :39:26. | :39:34. | |
document came out yesterday. -- 8 no. He said it was about changing a | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
philosophy could changing a mine said the DUP that needs to happen | :39:37. | :39:45. | |
if you're going to change the whole culture. -- changing a mindset. | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
will look at that seriously. Another suggestion we will also | :39:48. | :39:56. | |
look at. No suggestion. We want more people cycling and more safely. | :39:56. | :40:03. | |
What about helmets? Do you wear a helmet when cycling? I do not tend | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
to wear a helmet on Boris bike. Otherwise I do. He did not wear a | :40:10. | :40:19. | |
helmet in that film. You would have to wear a helmet walking. It is a | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
safe thing to do, as Norman said. 800 times around the world per Si | :40:24. | :40:33. | |
King death. It is perceived safety that is important. -- per cycling | :40:33. | :40:40. | |
death. It would be better to wear a helmet. I do not wear one either. I | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
think it is a safe activity. A lot of people would not cyclic they had | :40:44. | :40:54. | |
to wear a helmet. If you cut people out of it, be is not a benefit. | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
get where you are going. -- it is not a benefit. Last night, peers | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
were asked to vote on the Government's plans for the NHS. | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
Depending on who you believe, the changes will lead to privatisation | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
and the end of the NHS as we know it. Or they will build on New | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
Labour's reforms, improving efficiency and quality by boosting | :41:13. | :41:21. | |
competition. It was a lively debate. You cannot always said that about | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
the House of Lords. A former Health Minister in the new Labour | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
government was taking part. Dr Lucy Reynolds is an adviser to the | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
National Health Action Party. You voted against your party, with the | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
Government, saying that opening up to more commercial er organisations | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
and delivering health services is a big thing. People love it but they | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
get worried that you are privatising by the back door. | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
is no back door. I was voting for the policy under Labour before the | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
last election. I was implementing that when I was Health Minister in | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
a Labour government. The people who have shifted their position up | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
parts of the Labour Party. We have always had to operate within the | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
framework of EU competition law. These EU regulations last I put | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
into statutory form the procurement guidance which was issued by the | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
Labour government. Why not make the NHS better at delivering services | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
that people want rather than selling them out to other people? | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
We're giving clinical commissioning groups, run by GPs, who are | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
themselves small businessmen, to actually make decisions on behalf | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
of patients as to what the best service provider is for people in | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
their area. People buy it and I large are not that upset who | :42:40. | :42:50. | |
:42:50. | :42:52. | ||
provides the service as long as it Is actually said the public cares | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
about whether the service is public or private. That is the rub. When | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
you operate services, in order to generate as much money as possible | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
rather than optimising patient care, what you get a his services which | :43:07. | :43:15. | |
are not terribly good for patients. -- what you get his services. In | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
Cornwall, Serco took on an out-of- hours service and they had one GP | :43:20. | :43:28. | |
on for the entire county. Now there has been a speech saying they were | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
not out-of-hours services at will. Isn't one thing a principal problem | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
or is it fundamentally wrong in your opinion? It is not wrong for | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
me as a concept battle. It is wrong because it is more expensive. -- a | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
concept at all. It diverts resources away from delivering | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
decent care towards generating as much money as possible. An example | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
is the general health care group. Lord Warner is an adviser to that | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
group. It has been reported that has been the case. Is it true? | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
is not true. I was an adviser five years ago. That it is owned by a | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
consortium headed by a South African country, whose senior staff | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
have been found guilty of selling trafficked kidneys from miners. | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
This is not somebody we want involved in a health service care | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
delivery. They have been pressing the Government harder. If the sort | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
of people we are talking about are in there just to make money, should | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
the public are worried about that? I do not think that is what they | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
are doing. If you are going to shut at independent sector providers, | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
you're shutting out voluntary organisations, shutting out a load | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
of people who are currently working in partnership with the NHS from | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
the voluntary, private and social enterprise sectors, working with | :44:59. | :45:08. | |
the NHS. It is equally regulated in the private sector as the NHS. | :45:08. | :45:18. | |
:45:18. | :45:19. | ||
Thank you. Hotly-contested debate. Would you like to see something | :45:19. | :45:29. | |
:45:29. | :45:29. | ||
more like this during the Ike for President, Ike for | :45:29. | :45:39. | |
:45:39. | :45:40. | ||
President. We don't want Jon Lord Dean or Harry. Let's get in step | :45:40. | :45:50. | |
:45:50. | :45:52. | ||
with Ike. You like Ike, I like Ike. Everybody likes Ike. Travel day and | :45:52. | :46:02. | |
:46:02. | :46:07. | ||
night. We'll all go with Ike. Ike for President. We'll take Ike to | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
Washington! Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid | :46:12. | :46:21. | |
of their country. That was a television advert from 1956. For | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
Eisenhower's presidential campaign. One man who thinks the rules on | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
political advertising in this country should be relaxed is the | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
Conservative MP George Eustace, who's got a shiny new job in the | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
Number 10 policy unit. Is this what we can look forward to if you get | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
your way on political advertising? Dave, for Prime Minister? We ought | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
to review the way we approach this as a country. We are too easily | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
dismissive of the way most other democratic Stewart. People say they | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
don't want Cross, negative advertising like they have in the | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
US, but most other European countries allow some form of | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
political advertising, as do countries like Australia, who have | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
the same political culture as ours. You need a mixed diet for democracy | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
to work. You need the rough-and- tumble of the newspapers, the | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
attempt at impartiality from the broadcasters. It's a genuine | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
attempt, but it's always from a particular perspective. People like | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
Nick Robinson are almost the arbiters of truth in a given story. | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
But we also need more direct communication between political | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
parties and the electorate. will it improve our democratic | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
state? It will enable political parties to set out clearly what | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
they want to achieve. I think that is important in a democracy. | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
Otherwise too often with the media coverage we have it is who's up, | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
whose dam, who's fallen out with food. Or the public say they don't | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
understand is what political parties are standing for at the end | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
of that political process. Ward direct communication is a good | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
thing. What do you think of that? understand where you're coming from. | :47:58. | :48:05. | |
I think democracy is about arguments. One of the strengths of | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
the democratic system is that politicians have to get into the | :48:08. | :48:15. | |
broadcasting studios, and they do get taken on rather effectively by | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
most of our cross-examining presenters. I'm uneasy about moving | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
to an Americanisation of British politics, where you can set out | :48:24. | :48:33. | |
your stall in an unblemished weight, no criticism. I don't think it will | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
enhance trust in politics. I do think there's a problem with our | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
media more widely, and they do think there's a problem about the | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
way that politicians are held by the public. I don't think you are a | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
bunch of untrustworthy Roques, all out to further your nest - which is | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
the widely held perception or so most people I come across genuinely | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
want to make the world better. But I'm not certain, and beyond not | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
certain, I'm absolutely certain that slicker political | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
advertisement is not the solution. We've already recognise the | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
importance of parties communicating directly, that's why we have party | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
political broadcasts. We could modernise that, so rather than | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
having four minutes and 40 seconds long broadcasts, maybe give 15th | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
lots of one minute. People will see those party broadcasts and there's | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
a better chance that people will go to the ballot box informed of what | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
the parties actually stand for. Let's have another look at an | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
example of what we could have. Celebrity endorsements have been | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
around for quite a while. Let's have a look from J F K's 1960 | :49:40. | :49:50. | |
:49:50. | :49:56. | ||
presidential campaign, and see if # Everyone is calling for Jack. | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
# Because he's got what all the rest lack. | :50:01. | :50:11. | |
:50:11. | :50:12. | ||
If you had political advertising in Britain, it wouldn't have an | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
American accent. America has a slightly different political | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
culture to us. In Britain, it would be with a British accent and it | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
would be much more subtle. It wouldn't be brash and have people | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
singing and dancing. How do you know? It might be exactly like that. | :50:28. | :50:35. | |
That sort of thing would not work with the British public. So we | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
wouldn't have adverts in Britain that didn't work with the British | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
public, we'd have adverts that people would find persuasive and be | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
willing to listen to. Having political adverts doesn't mean | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
American accents. What's the problem that this initiative is | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
trying to solve? It is basically to make sure that the electorate have | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
a mixed diet. I'm not saying let's replace broadcast news bulletins, | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
they are the single most important source of information... Is it | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
because you've got money to burn? If there isn't a potent enough | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
reason to do it except to increase, in the voters' minds, the presence | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
of a particular party? All the parties now have quite hard | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
restrictions on what they can spend. They are all limited. So this idea | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
that it means people with deep pockets will have we more to spend | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
is not true. You want to flex up the system so there'll one-minute | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
bulletins and not four minute bulletins, many more of them. | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
you look at Australia, people who work in politics there say if they | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
get incredibly unfair coverage in the news and the story goes against | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
them, and this can happen to political parties for reasons that | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
are beyond their control, and if they believe they are not being | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
heard properly and their policies misunderstood, they can put down | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
some broadcasting and adverts and explain to people what they really | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
bad - that really stand for. That can't be a bad thing. Negative | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
adverts is one of the biggest complaints about American political | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
advertising, and that would happen here. We already have some negative | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
political advertising. I don't want to see more of it. I don't think | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
that is what would happen. We have restrictions already on party | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
political broadcasts. You can't, for instance, used footage of your | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
opponents without their permission. The Read my lips attack on George | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
Bush would have been banned in Britain, even under our existing | :52:36. | :52:46. | |
:52:46. | :52:47. | ||
broadcast rules. What are you doing in your new job? It's very much | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
about giving us a more political engagement on the policy... Be cos | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
there's been a lack of it and there needs to be more input from the | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
backbenches? We are going into a phase now, it's absolutely natural | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
that you would want to have a stronger political leader and | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
stronger political involvement. What does that mean, what political | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
lead would you like to see? What policy would you like to see go out | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
there now? For having just accepted this role this morning, I'm not | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
going to go out and say what it might be. But this is a process | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
that starts do to do thinking, both for the end of this Parliament and | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
for the next Parliament as well. It is really to make sure that we get | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
engagement from all the talents in the party. We have some very | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
talented people, some of them have served on committees and have a lot | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
of expertise in lots of different areas. We want to make sure we get | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
that involved in the policy process. How his morale? It's very good. | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
We've undoubtedly had a difficult year. But what is true is over the | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
last few weeks, there's a feeling we have turned that corner and | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
people are getting back in the saddle. This afternoon, MPs and | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
peers will be taking part in an ancient ritual. It's not the summer | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
solstice and, no, no one, not even David Cameron will be donning a | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
white dress and dishing out flowers. It is the prorogation of Parliament. | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
If you don't know what it is, don't panic, because we have the world | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
expert on hand to explain it all. Prorogation, it's a word that just | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
doesn't seem to come up in everyday language, but round here they've | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
talked of little else for the last few days. They are all asking - | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
when his prorogation? But more importantly, how do you spell at | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
and what exactly is it? Well, it's a message from the Queen, red in | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
the Chamber of the House of Lords, essentially bringing down the | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
curtain on this session of Parliament. In other words, the | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
extreme opposite to the State Opening of Parliament. The | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
government have finally persuaded both Houses to accept its | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
legislation. Amendments have been batting to-and-fro all week between | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
the Lords and Commons. It is a process known as parliamentary | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
ping-pong, or with Waqar, as Boris would no doubt call it. So what | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
happens? When the legislation is all done and dusted and sent for | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
Royal Assent, the leader in the House of Lords reads the message on | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
behalf of the Queen. It not being personally convenient for Her | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
Majesty to attend, in fact, no monarch has bothered to turn a Sin | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
City 54. You will have noticed they're wearing some extremely | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
fetching ropes and hats. Perhaps perform an age-old constitutional | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
function. Well, they don't actually, but they do look good. If you are a | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
lord, you have to doff them in unison to greet MPs who walked down | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
the corridor from the Commons. If you are a baroness, you don't have | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
to bother. You may notice some lords are rather better at it than | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
others. The MPs listen to royal assent being formally announced. It | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
is one of the oldest ceremonies in Parliament. And then the Clarke | :55:53. | :55:59. | |
says... If you're Norman French isn't up to it, you may not have | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
understood a word, but that's what I'm paid for. It means the Queen | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
wishes it. The monarch can refuse a bill, but they haven't done so for | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
over 300 years, 1707, I checked! It's all over and the MPs troop | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
back to the Commons, where the speaker makes another statement | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
before shaking every one of them by the hand. It's the last time they | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
will be in the chamber until that much grander occasion, the State | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
Opening of Parliament, usually just will be on the three-line whip to | :56:32. | :56:42. | |
attend. And Daniel is with us now. Is this really all still necessary? | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
Absolutely, otherwise the session couldn't end. You might ask, is it | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
a little involved? You might say prorogation makes the State Opening | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
look quite a logical ceremony. It is complicated, there's a lot of | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
bowing. But essentially, it's doing what it has always done through the | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
entire history of Parliament, which is bringing down the session. The | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
leader of the Lords will begin by saying, it's not being personally | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
convenient for Her Majesty to attend. It hasn't been personally | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
convenient for about 150 years. It hasn't been personally convenient | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
to give Royal Assent in person either. Do you like the sort of | :57:24. | :57:34. | |
:57:34. | :57:35. | ||
thing? My own view is that we hear this Norman the French being spoken. | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
You are aware how deep-rooted the constitution is. And it is now | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
written constitution. All this procedure and protocol masks still | :57:44. | :57:54. | |
:57:54. | :57:57. | ||
a very regal way that our ministers have power. Ministers rule with a | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
great deal of executive discretion, which has its roots in one of your | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
government, which shows itself up in wearing the roads and doffing | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
caps. My own view is it would be fantastic if we could start again. | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
But we are never going to, so here we are. It's interesting, because | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
the Queen has her own office in the House of Lords. Being head of state | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
has taken quite seriously. The Crown has an office in the House of | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
Lords, dealing with all the matters that endlessly, about the Queen as | :58:29. | :58:39. | |
:58:39. | :58:40. | ||
being head of state. Happy prorogation is all I'm saying! | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
Thanks to all our guests. The news is starting on BBC One now. Andrew | :58:44. | :58:49. |