07/05/2013 Daily Politics


07/05/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 07/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Daily Politics. Westminster is gearing up for the big event, the

:00:46.:00:50.

Queen's Speech tomorrow. We will have the lowdown on what the

:00:50.:00:52.

government is planning for the year ahead, and what it is not.

:00:52.:00:56.

The speech won't include a commitment to any EU referendum,

:00:56.:01:00.

despite today's call for one from former Chancellor Nigel Lawson. We

:01:00.:01:03.

will discuss the pressure on camera and over Europe.

:01:03.:01:07.

The government is pressing ahead with plans to sell off the Royal

:01:07.:01:11.

mail, or at least part of it. We will speak to the Business

:01:11.:01:15.

Secretary, Vince Cable. We will hear from one MP kicking up a stink about

:01:15.:01:22.

some cheese. That is all coming up in the next

:01:22.:01:26.

hour. With us for the duration, former Labour Home Secretary Alan

:01:26.:01:31.

Johnson. It is so good to see you in daylight! I was beginning to wonder

:01:31.:01:38.

if you were allowed out during the day.

:01:38.:01:42.

Let's start with the news over the weekend of the arrest of the Deputy

:01:43.:01:48.

Speaker of Parliament Nigel Evans. He is accused by two men of rape and

:01:48.:01:51.

sexual assault, charges leave a and Lee denies. Let's get the latest

:01:51.:01:58.

from Carole Walker. -- charges he is a are mentally denies. Nigel Evans

:01:58.:02:02.

will be holding a press briefing in the next couple of hours. We believe

:02:02.:02:09.

he will simply be -- simply be outside the Houses of Parliament

:02:09.:02:14.

that he is getting on with his job as an MP, attending meetings as

:02:14.:02:18.

Deputy Speaker even though we know he will not be sitting in the chair

:02:18.:02:22.

in the Commons for the Jura Asian of the debate on the Queen's Speech,

:02:22.:02:26.

which will go on until the middle of next week -- for the Jura Asian of

:02:26.:02:30.

the debate. Here is not hiding away from the allegations, which he has

:02:30.:02:34.

described as completely false. He has a lot of support from fellow

:02:34.:02:40.

MPs, but I understand that behind-the-scenes there is concern

:02:40.:02:44.

that the office of Speaker and Deputy Speaker should not be in

:02:44.:02:49.

anyway caught up with controversy. Nigel Evans was elected by fellow

:02:49.:02:53.

MPs, it is up to the House of Commons what happens to him in the

:02:53.:02:58.

future. Because he is one of the first Deputy Speakers elected in

:02:58.:03:04.

this way, the rules and mechanisms are not entirely clear about if it

:03:04.:03:08.

was considered best for him to step aside. There will be meetings to try

:03:08.:03:13.

to clarify that, but for the time being the hope is that Nigel Evans

:03:13.:03:18.

will not sit in the chair for the next week or so. After that there

:03:18.:03:21.

are only if you parliamentary days before recess, so perhaps the matter

:03:21.:03:31.
:03:31.:03:37.

can be left for a fewer weeks until it is

:03:38.:03:43.

The principle is interesting. Should those accused of this sort of sexual

:03:43.:03:47.

offence, arrested but not charged, and it looks like he won't be,

:03:47.:03:51.

should they have anonymity at least until they have been charged?

:03:51.:03:57.

don't think so. This was a coalition policy, no one knows where it

:03:57.:04:03.

emerged from, it was not in any manifesto. But that was in the

:04:03.:04:09.

coalition agreement. It took about two months for them to do an

:04:09.:04:13.

inelegant U-turn. They are not going to do it now. There was a real body

:04:13.:04:18.

of opinion that said, why should rape be the only crime, not murder,

:04:18.:04:25.

not child abuse, not a fraud, where the defendant has anonymity? And the

:04:25.:04:30.

other body of evidence suggests that many women, seeing the defendant,

:04:30.:04:37.

most people guilty of rape have raped other women, and that was a

:04:37.:04:47.
:04:47.:04:48.

big factor in many high-profile rape cases, the fact that other women

:04:48.:04:51.

came forward, such as that taxi driver in London, other people came

:04:51.:04:58.

forward. The Associaton of Chief Police Officers, they say they want

:04:58.:05:03.

to end, quote, the bizarre power game where journalists try to come

:05:03.:05:11.

out with the names of people. They talk about a blanket ban on names

:05:11.:05:14.

being released. When Quentin Blunt, then the minister, withdrew

:05:14.:05:19.

anonymity for rape defendant, he did so on the basis that they would look

:05:19.:05:23.

at trying to find a way that these names would not come out in the

:05:23.:05:28.

media and through the police. There was another way of tackling this.

:05:28.:05:32.

Nothing much has happened, this might spark it off. For the

:05:32.:05:36.

government to decide there is a problem because an MP happens to be

:05:36.:05:43.

the person alleged to have committed the offence, as opposed to all the

:05:43.:05:49.

others, it looks like, we don't mind anyone else, but when it is an MP...

:05:49.:05:52.

Is it not a wee bit suspicious that the press were tipped off in time to

:05:52.:05:59.

get to Pendleton, not a major press hope, photographs of the police

:05:59.:06:03.

going through his car, they knew exactly where the car was parked and

:06:03.:06:07.

all the rest. You have a very suspicious mind, it had not even

:06:07.:06:13.

crossed my mind. Who knows? Knack of the yardstick datapath. Could well

:06:13.:06:21.

have been. You and your suspicious mind. Put it to good use, it is time

:06:21.:06:25.

for our quiz. Writing in The Times today, former Conservative

:06:26.:06:30.

Chancellor Nigel Lawson says it is time for Britain to quit the

:06:30.:06:33.

European Union, but which former Prime Minister does he think David

:06:33.:06:38.

Cameron is following in the footsteps of? Is it Harold Wilson,

:06:38.:06:43.

John Major, Margaret Thatcher or Gordon Brown? At the end of the

:06:43.:06:51.

show, we'll have the correct answer. If I know, Alan knows! That is for

:06:51.:06:55.

sure! Last week the Government signalled its intention to sell off

:06:55.:06:59.

some more of the state's family silver. At least that is what Harold

:06:59.:07:01.

Macmillan called it. Downing Street's famous 'nudge unit' was

:07:01.:07:05.

mentioned - it's been thinking up clever schemes to nudge people to do

:07:05.:07:08.

things like pay their council tax bills on time. And ministers talked

:07:08.:07:11.

of dozens of other areas of government which could be sold into

:07:11.:07:15.

the private sector. But the real biggie was the Royal Mail. Last

:07:15.:07:17.

Monday the Business Minister Michael Fallon announced he was about to

:07:17.:07:20.

start hiring banks to handle the sale of the national postal service,

:07:20.:07:24.

a move made possible by the Postal Services Act passed two years ago.

:07:25.:07:27.

The government's preferred option is to float the company on the stock

:07:28.:07:30.

market, but it's not clear what percentage of the business will be

:07:31.:07:34.

sold initially. Another option on the cards could be selling a stake

:07:34.:07:39.

to a private buyer. The Royal Mail is estimated to be worth between �2

:07:39.:07:43.

and �3 billion pounds. If the sale goes ahead, Michael Fallon has

:07:43.:07:47.

confirmed that 10% of shares would be reserved for Royal Mail staff -

:07:47.:07:50.

although it's not clear whether they would get a discount. Trade unions

:07:50.:07:54.

are opposed to the move. The General Secretary of the TUC, Frances

:07:54.:07:59.

O'Grady, says that the Government wants to wreck the Royal Mail. And

:07:59.:08:03.

campaigners have warned that if the service is sold off, the price of a

:08:03.:08:13.
:08:13.:08:14.

a first class stamp could rocket from 60p to �1.

:08:14.:08:18.

The Business Secretary Vince Cable is with us. You have kept away from

:08:18.:08:25.

us, you don't call or write! Happy to come on the programme! Happy to

:08:25.:08:28.

have you. I never thought you would be more Thatcher than Thatcher,

:08:28.:08:31.

Thatcher said she was not prepared to sell off the Royal Mail eco-she

:08:31.:08:40.

was, quote, not prepared to have the Queens head privatised. -- the

:08:40.:08:46.

Queen's head. Bee under Labour, there was a recognition that there

:08:46.:08:51.

was a problem with Royal Mail. There needed to be a lot of investment. A

:08:51.:09:01.
:09:01.:09:01.

report was produced. One element was bringing in private capital, that is

:09:01.:09:09.

what they are doing. There is nothing new or surprising. Mr Farage

:09:09.:09:14.

has said so, but you are his boss, that the preferred route for the

:09:14.:09:17.

government is an initial public offering, that a chunk of Royal Mail

:09:17.:09:26.

stock would be sold? Correct.Any idea what percentage? We are aiming

:09:26.:09:34.

to sell the majority, the simple reason is that Royal Mail will need

:09:34.:09:38.

to raise capital and modernise, in order to do that it needs to get

:09:38.:09:43.

itself off the public accounts. At the moment it competes with schools

:09:43.:09:49.

and hospitals in capital spending. So Royal Mail spending shows up in

:09:49.:09:54.

public debts? The only way around that is to have some private

:09:54.:10:02.

ownership. Your manifesto says you can only sell off 49 %. We had a

:10:02.:10:06.

debate before the last election. My colleagues wanted a more cautious

:10:06.:10:14.

approach. You wanted more than 49 %? We did at the time -- I did at the

:10:14.:10:22.

time. You will sell off more than 50 %, but on top of that ten % will go

:10:22.:10:27.

to the workers, but how? Will they have to buy shares? Will they be

:10:28.:10:35.

donating shares? We still have to bottom this out. We have to speak to

:10:35.:10:40.

the communication workers union. We are determined that there should be

:10:40.:10:44.

a workers stake in the new Royal Mail. It will be good for them and

:10:45.:10:54.
:10:55.:10:56.

the company. But they could shell the stairs. -- sell the shares off.

:10:56.:11:02.

Let's say you sell 51 %, then another ten % goes to the

:11:02.:11:11.

workforce, we are up to 61 %, does the remaining 31 -- 39 % stay with

:11:11.:11:18.

the government for a period? The aim is to sell off as much private

:11:18.:11:28.

capital as we need to. It is open, we want to keep our options open

:11:28.:11:32.

with potential buyers and the mechanics of the sale. Former

:11:32.:11:39.

postman Alan Johnson, what do you make of this? I'm a Thatcherite on

:11:39.:11:48.

Royal Mail privatisation. 20 years ago, I think it was the right thing

:11:48.:11:56.

to oppose, and I think it is now. Vince says quite rightly that the

:11:56.:12:00.

problem is how you borrow to get capital into the Royal Mail, and it

:12:00.:12:02.

appears on the government's balance sheet, but the profits of Royal Mail

:12:02.:12:06.

also help to build schools and hospitals. What has happened where

:12:06.:12:10.

there is a broad consensus, the pension fund moved on to government

:12:10.:12:14.

bills rather than weighing Darren Royal Mail, the change in the

:12:14.:12:18.

regulator has transformed Royal Mail, and a great CEO. Their

:12:18.:12:23.

operation treble -- profits have trebled in just a few years. There

:12:23.:12:27.

is a danger that they are selling off a very important part of the

:12:27.:12:31.

infrastructure and, I would even say, the social fabric of this

:12:31.:12:34.

country at a time where it is becoming more profitable. Secondly,

:12:34.:12:39.

there is the issue about breaking apart Royal Mail from the post

:12:39.:12:48.

office. There is already some separation, but there is a synergy.

:12:48.:12:56.

Let Vince Cable response. It is becoming a much better operation.

:12:56.:13:05.

The challenge is enormous. They are losing large chunks of their mail

:13:05.:13:11.

business, they are picking it up on the parcel side, but they will have

:13:11.:13:16.

to invest very heavily. I suspect one of the reasons why performance

:13:16.:13:21.

has improved is they know they have to get ready for the market

:13:21.:13:31.
:13:31.:13:34.

flotation. Are we so bereft of any innovation or imagination in this

:13:34.:13:37.

country that we can't find a way to get some capital into a very, very

:13:37.:13:40.

much appreciated public sector resorts? The tradition is that you

:13:40.:13:44.

do it off the balance sheet, which always makes me suspicious, as you

:13:44.:13:49.

do with network rail? There was a lot of creativity under your former

:13:49.:13:57.

Prime Minister excavation mark I helped with some of that creativity!

:13:57.:14:03.

The hallmark of the British mail system, which almost every other

:14:03.:14:07.

country copied, was that there was a single price for sending a letter

:14:07.:14:14.

anywhere, not a parcel but a letter. That is enshrined in legislation for

:14:14.:14:21.

about eight years? What would happen after that? It is for Parliament to

:14:21.:14:26.

decide. Parliament has to decide if that has changed. One of the key

:14:26.:14:29.

objectives of privatisation is to underpin the universal service

:14:29.:14:35.

obligation, which is a guaranteed of a uniform price. If the Royal Mail

:14:35.:14:41.

is not viable, we can't uphold universal service obligations.

:14:41.:14:45.

party is criticising, quote, the timing of privatisation, but not the

:14:46.:14:55.
:14:56.:14:56.

principal. We voted against this. Royal Mail is improving all the

:14:56.:15:01.

time. George Osborne is desperate to do something about the borrowing

:15:01.:15:07.

statistics, �245 billion more than planned, he has all the harm -- it

:15:07.:15:10.

has all the hallmarks of a fire sale. They haven't thought through

:15:10.:15:16.

whole elements of which. In which case, this has been in public

:15:16.:15:22.

ownership for around 370 years, what is the rush? If it was a fire sale,

:15:22.:15:27.

why have we taken two years? Because you needed to get the pension fund

:15:27.:15:35.

of the books. The key issue is, what would you guys do? Chuka Umunna made

:15:35.:15:42.

it very clear that the debate is now closed. You will not re-nationalise

:15:42.:15:47.

it, we all know that. We are at the end of that particular story.

:15:47.:15:51.

the Queen's Speech tomorrow, on immigration, the proposals are to

:15:51.:15:56.

toughen up a lot of things on welfare as immigrants get paid or do

:15:56.:16:06.
:16:06.:16:11.

not get paid. You happy to go along We have overseas students come to

:16:11.:16:18.

go Britain and I would encourage that.

:16:18.:16:23.

We picked up, we didn't need these elections to tell us, there is a

:16:23.:16:30.

lot of public anxiety and much of it centres not on the gree gree

:16:30.:16:34.

free movement of -- the free movement of people per per se, but

:16:34.:16:38.

it is the sense that people come from overseas and get benefits they

:16:38.:16:44.

are not entitled to. Your party fought the election an

:16:44.:16:47.

an amnesty. Wasn't that a principled position? Wasn't it the

:16:47.:16:54.

right position to start again and have a line drawn under it? Nick

:16:54.:16:57.

Clegg made it clear that he he thought that was a mistake and we

:16:57.:16:59.

shouldn't have done that. I'm asking you? We have agreed that

:16:59.:17:06.

we are we are not going down that road again. The amnesty has been

:17:06.:17:12.

abandoned? Well, it had merits and demerits. People didn't like it.It

:17:12.:17:16.

created a lot of public anxiety P. What do you make of Nigel Lawson

:17:16.:17:20.

saying he will vote against. He doesn't think there will be much

:17:20.:17:24.

repatriation and he will vote to get out? Well, he is a clever guy,

:17:24.:17:29.

but he is often wrong on the issues like climate change and this. The

:17:29.:17:34.

problem he has and is explaining what the alternative model. I mean

:17:34.:17:37.

if you decide to leave the European Union, what are you going to

:17:37.:17:43.

negotiate with? He is a free trader I think so you would need to have

:17:43.:17:46.

agreement on the continuation of the single market, free trade

:17:46.:17:49.

arrangements. I am not sure how he would secure that.

:17:49.:17:53.

And where are you on the the idea that it is popular on parts of the

:17:53.:17:56.

Tory backbenches for a mandate referendum whereby a referendum

:17:56.:18:00.

would take place mandating the Government to go and repatriate

:18:00.:18:04.

powers from Brussels? Well, I don't see the need for that. Parliament

:18:04.:18:07.

has already set out the ground rules for a referendum. We have

:18:07.:18:12.

passed that legislation. But if the terms of our treaty position

:18:12.:18:15.

changes, we we should have a referendum. Parliament has decide

:18:15.:18:19.

that had. We don't need to go back on that.

:18:19.:18:22.

The Lib Dems would not support a Conservative part of the coalition

:18:22.:18:28.

trying to introduce mandate legislation?

:18:28.:18:33.

On the business of RBS if the Treasury is going to sell RBS at a

:18:33.:18:39.

loss and it looks as if that is what they are going to do. Wouldn't

:18:39.:18:45.

it be better to nationalise RBS? we had gone back fours years ago,

:18:45.:18:48.

that would be the thing to do. Nationalise it now would require

:18:48.:18:53.

the acquisition of the remaining shares... Not that much?It is a

:18:53.:18:58.

somebody standings sum of money. My main concern about RBS is the

:18:58.:19:01.

taxpayer get value money for money when it is sold.

:19:01.:19:09.

Well, they won't if it is sold at a loss. It will be sold eventually.

:19:09.:19:13.

There is a big issue about why the big banks including the State banks

:19:13.:19:18.

are not supporting small business and that's a real problem.

:19:18.:19:23.

Are you part of the three out of four who do not regard Ed Miliband

:19:23.:19:27.

as a credible Prime Minister or are you part of the one out of four who

:19:27.:19:36.

does regard him? He has not established that Labour are a

:19:36.:19:38.

credible alternative Government, but that's the challenge to him.

:19:38.:19:42.

His problem is not around personality, but he was part of a

:19:42.:19:46.

Government that oversaw the massive financial crisis and the

:19:46.:19:52.

consequences that flowed from that. So he a credible Prime Minister?

:19:52.:19:57.

Not yet and the challenge is for him to prove he is.

:19:57.:20:03.

Will you come back? I am happy to come back, Andrew. I used to enjoy

:20:03.:20:07.

my appearances on your programme. I will have the diary outside as

:20:08.:20:12.

you are leaving! Now as you may or may not know, we're not on air

:20:12.:20:18.

tomorrow. We are not? That means we don't get paid!

:20:18.:20:23.

The reason? It's the Queen's Speech. The moment when Her Majesty appears

:20:23.:20:27.

in Parliament to read out a list of the Government's plans for the next

:20:27.:20:29.

parliamentary session. Here's our insider's guide to the big event

:20:29.:20:36.

with Quentin Letts of the Daily Q is for Queen's Speech delivered

:20:36.:20:40.

at the State Opening of Parliament. It is the biggest day in the

:20:40.:20:44.

Parliamentary day. All the Queen's horses and the Queen's men and this

:20:44.:20:48.

is where she arrives. The Queen doesn't write the speech herself,

:20:48.:20:51.

mind you. It is written for her by the Cabinet and that is because it

:20:51.:20:55.

sets out the Government's legislative programme for the

:20:55.:20:59.

coming year. The Queen arrives at Parliament,

:20:59.:21:02.

comes up the stairs and into this little room. The Robing Room. This

:21:02.:21:06.

is where she gets ready and she puts on the imperial state state

:21:06.:21:11.

crown. The opening ceremony as we have it today dates back to 1852

:21:11.:21:14.

when this Palace of Westminster was built, but some parts of the

:21:14.:21:18.

ceremony go back further to times when the Crown and Parliament were

:21:19.:21:25.

on less than friendly terms! Before the Queen travels to

:21:25.:21:29.

Parliament, certain precautions are taken. A member of the Government

:21:29.:21:32.

is held hostage at at Buckingham Palace and is kept there until the

:21:33.:21:40.

monarch returns and the yeoman of the guard searches the zel the

:21:40.:21:47.

cellars of the House of the Parliament for any gun powder. She

:21:47.:21:51.

progresses through the chamber. On the day t it is crammed with VIPs

:21:51.:21:56.

and other guests. Black Rod is sent to to summon MPs to listen to the

:21:56.:22:01.

Queen's Speech.' arrives there -- he arrives there and the door is

:22:01.:22:05.

slammed in his face. MPs don't open it until he struck on the door with

:22:06.:22:12.

his staff of office. Black Rod leads MPs back towards

:22:12.:22:16.

the House of Lords. They amble slowly not wish to go appear too

:22:16.:22:20.

concerned and they listen to the Queen's Speech. It is standing room

:22:20.:22:29.

only. My lords, and members of the House

:22:29.:22:32.

of Commons, my Government's legislative programme will be based

:22:32.:22:39.

upon the principles of freedom, fairness and responsibility.

:22:39.:22:41.

Government's programme as presented in the Queen's Speech is debated

:22:41.:22:48.

for four or five days or for four or five years! Do you think they

:22:49.:22:58.
:22:59.:23:01.

rent it out for parties? Quentin Letts. Joining us from

:23:01.:23:04.

College Green are Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror and Emily Ashton

:23:04.:23:09.

from the Sun. Well, well, we have had local elections, what impact do

:23:09.:23:12.

you think the rise of UKIP in the local elections is going to have?

:23:12.:23:22.
:23:22.:23:24.

It has to be written on on velum! But, we do know that Nigel Farage

:23:24.:23:28.

is on the Queen's shoulder when she reads it out because we can say the

:23:28.:23:34.

way the Government is spinning and Nigel Lawson will be another guest

:23:34.:23:41.

who is there tomorrow, but we know that there are big issues that the

:23:41.:23:44.

Queen won't address, but they will be dominating the coalition from

:23:44.:23:47.

now on. Do you think we will see anything

:23:47.:23:52.

change substantively in terms of how the Tory-led Government as

:23:52.:23:55.

everyone likes to call it in terms of what they will do? I mean these

:23:55.:23:59.

things have been onted agenda for a while, but they have upped the

:23:59.:24:03.

rhetoric. The message tomorrow will be we are on the side of people who

:24:03.:24:07.

want to work hard and get on. It isn't really anything particularly

:24:08.:24:11.

new. Or controversial? Exactly. Yeah,

:24:11.:24:15.

there will be things like, you know, a crackdown on benefits fraud,

:24:15.:24:20.

foreigners who want to use the NHS, restricting access to the NHS and

:24:20.:24:30.
:24:30.:24:31.

housing and beating out -- booting out out foreign criminals easily.

:24:31.:24:35.

UKIP who managed to get so many former Tory voters on their side,

:24:35.:24:41.

they want to get them back. Kevin Maguire, if that's Nigel

:24:41.:24:46.

Farage circling above your head... It is nearly opening time, Jo.

:24:46.:24:53.

Kevin Maguire! He has a habit of falling out of

:24:53.:24:57.

planes! Some of the things that were

:24:57.:25:04.

dropped like the pledge for 0.7% of GDP on international aid. That's

:25:04.:25:09.

not going to be there. How symbolic is that? And plain packaging of

:25:09.:25:14.

cigarettes. The fact if you look at the Cameroon issues, minimum

:25:14.:25:21.

pricing of alcohol. They have been put on the back burner or dropped

:25:21.:25:23.

permanently. David Cameron is moving to the right and he will be

:25:24.:25:28.

answering the voice of Nigel Farage and the old days of the huskies and

:25:28.:25:32.

tilting at windmills are long gone and that's the significance and it

:25:32.:25:36.

will lead up to seven weeks time when George Osborne gives his next

:25:36.:25:39.

three year spending plans which will be a bigger political event

:25:39.:25:42.

than the Queen's Speech tomorrow. We will see the direction of the

:25:42.:25:45.

Government, but we will see them moving to the right and getting

:25:45.:25:49.

harsher, that's what they feel voters want. Whether it is the

:25:50.:25:54.

right right strategy, I think it is the wrong strategy, but I think

:25:54.:25:57.

that's where we will see the Government go.

:25:57.:26:03.

Emily, Lord Lawson's intervention is hardly a vote of confidence in

:26:03.:26:05.

David Cameron's campaign to go for a reformed relationship with the

:26:05.:26:12.

EU? Well, it is not ideal, is it? I don't know how central Lord Lawson

:26:12.:26:17.

is to UK politics now, but the fact that he is saying a renegotiation

:26:17.:26:22.

with Europe would fail is not quite what David Cameron wants to hear.

:26:22.:26:26.

And it will probably mean his right-wing Tory MPs feel the same

:26:26.:26:31.

that a renegotiation is word, what does it mean? What does the changes

:26:31.:26:35.

mean for Europe? It will ring a few bells and get people on side with

:26:35.:26:38.

Lord Lawson. On Europe, what about the the

:26:38.:26:42.

Liberal Democrats? We have had Vince Cable on talking to him about

:26:42.:26:47.

mandate referendums which have been suggested by Tory backbenchers, the

:26:47.:26:52.

Liberal Democrats won support it. - - won't support it. What's the mood

:26:52.:26:56.

amongst them? The Labour attacks on the Liberal Democrats, they are

:26:56.:26:59.

accomplices of David Cameron sting them and they like to to show they

:26:59.:27:02.

have a more positive agenda. Sometimes they can get measures

:27:02.:27:08.

they want. On Europe, I think, they are a party that won't move. They

:27:08.:27:15.

promise add add add in/out referendum. They will hold their

:27:15.:27:20.

ground. It is a fascinating period in politics. Europe's torn the Tory

:27:20.:27:26.

Party apart in the past, maybe it will do it again. Labour's is solid.

:27:26.:27:29.

The anti-European wing is now small and the Liberal Democrats are just

:27:29.:27:32.

sitting in there. I don't think the Liberal Democrats promising a

:27:32.:27:35.

referendum would would win them votes at next election. They are

:27:35.:27:40.

going to go down far and the hole campaign will be to defend the

:27:40.:27:43.

seats they already have. Thank you. Enjoy the Queen's Speech.

:27:43.:27:48.

Thank you. David Cameron, wasn't tilting at

:27:48.:27:56.

windmills, he will building them. So was his father-in-law. Solar

:27:56.:28:00.

panels. He wanted to put them in his wee

:28:00.:28:04.

back garden of 20,000 acres. When is a blue cheese that tastes

:28:04.:28:07.

like Stilton, smells like Stilton and is made in the village of

:28:07.:28:10.

Stilton not a stilton? Well, the answer is when it's manufacturers

:28:10.:28:13.

have no right to call it so under legal protection of products and

:28:13.:28:23.
:28:23.:28:23.

traditional foods that are tightly controlled. But what if new

:28:23.:28:26.

research suggests the so called "source of origin" is more

:28:26.:28:28.

complicated than those rules allow? I though you have been thinking

:28:28.:28:31.

about this night and day for weeks. So Giles has been hunting for

:28:31.:28:35.

scraps to find an answer. It is time for a bit of honesty, being a

:28:35.:28:37.

political reporter in and around Westminster is a tough job. There

:28:37.:28:39.

is a lot of pressures and the working conditions aren't great.

:28:39.:28:43.

You never know when the next meal is coming from and have to put up

:28:43.:28:46.

with rough things like this. There is a reason why I'm out here with

:28:46.:28:51.

this. All the products on the table are protected by law. If you want

:28:51.:29:01.

to sell them under a certain name. Certain morex, a Melton Mowbray

:29:01.:29:11.
:29:11.:29:11.

pork pie must have come from mel tonne Mowbray. From Melton Mowbray.

:29:11.:29:16.

Sam pain has to come from the champagne region otherwise it is

:29:16.:29:22.

just sparkling white wine. Let me introduce my guest. I I thought the

:29:22.:29:26.

principle of this legislation was to protect a traditional recipe or

:29:26.:29:29.

product from cheap copies, marketing under the brand. What's

:29:29.:29:34.

wrong with that? There is nothing wrong and I am in favour of ensure

:29:34.:29:37.

when you have a product that calls itself a certain product and says

:29:37.:29:41.

it is from a certain areas, that's what it is and if there are going

:29:41.:29:45.

to be cheap imitations then that's wrong. So we should have quality

:29:45.:29:49.

control. What I am saying, there are strict rules here and there

:29:49.:29:53.

ought to be flexibility because as time goes on, it is possible that

:29:53.:29:58.

that people may unearth things like they may find that a particular

:29:58.:30:02.

product was actually made or grown in a particular area and therefore,

:30:02.:30:06.

they need to revise the rules to include something else. That is all

:30:06.:30:12.

I'm asking for. Let me be clear, I am not suggesting that standards or

:30:12.:30:22.
:30:22.:30:22.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 44 seconds

:30:22.:31:07.

quality control should be at the end of the day, you can say

:31:07.:31:11.

that this product is the real product. What I am trying to argue

:31:11.:31:16.

is that these rules are so strict that sometimes it can be difficult

:31:16.:31:22.

to break through. In a time of austerity, these are nice, high

:31:22.:31:28.

quality products, which are you partial to? A bit of cheese,

:31:28.:31:32.

genuinely, a bit of Stilton to use with a bit of wine closedown well.

:31:32.:31:40.

-- a bit of Stilton to. I think we should have lunch now! Shailesh Vara

:31:40.:31:47.

is joined as in the studio, as has Nigel White, the chairman of the

:31:47.:31:53.

Stilton Cheesemakers Association. -- Shailesh Vara has joined us. Does it

:31:53.:31:56.

not seem silly that a cheese produced in Stilton cannot call

:31:56.:32:06.
:32:06.:32:07.

itself a Stilton to? The name was protected in 1967 or 68 by a

:32:07.:32:09.

certification trademark granted to the Stilton Cheesemakers

:32:09.:32:14.

Association, which said that it must be made to a prescribed recipe in

:32:14.:32:16.

the counties of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire.

:32:16.:32:22.

But some historians say that Stilton is has got its name after being sold

:32:22.:32:26.

to travellers passing through the village of Stilton in the 18th

:32:26.:32:34.

century? So it came from there? about 1745 onwards, most of the

:32:34.:32:36.

Stilton was coming from Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire.

:32:36.:32:42.

As far as we know, there has been no cheese made in the village of

:32:42.:32:47.

Stilton for at least 200 years. there was a Stilton and is recipe

:32:47.:32:52.

published in a newsletter by Richard Radley in 1723. I remember reading

:32:52.:33:01.

about it at the time! It was a recipe for what was called Stilton.

:33:01.:33:04.

The recipe bears no relationship whatsoever with the cheese protected

:33:05.:33:11.

from 1968 onwards, that recipe was what we call cooked, pressed, cream

:33:11.:33:15.

cheese. No mention of blue. The Stilton we have been making the

:33:15.:33:20.

dairies for well over 100 years is unimpressed, uncooked, blue veined

:33:20.:33:30.

cheese. You are a bunch of imposters! Not at all. A local

:33:30.:33:34.

historian, working with the people making the cheese in Stilton at the

:33:34.:33:39.

moment, they have come up with a pamphlet dating from 1722 which not

:33:39.:33:43.

only speaks of Stilton making a cheese that of making Stilton is.

:33:43.:33:48.

There is a book which makes reference to the village, and even

:33:48.:33:55.

Daniel Defoe, writing in 1724, makes reference to Stilton and is being

:33:55.:34:00.

made in the village of Stilton. Lawrence says a perfect Stilton

:34:00.:34:06.

should be about seven inches in diameter, eight inches in height,

:34:06.:34:08.

and weigh about �18, which is exactly what my Christmas Stilton

:34:08.:34:18.
:34:18.:34:20.

did. But this was referred to as the English Parmesan. You ought to put

:34:20.:34:25.

the facts straight, no recipe at the moment adheres to what was made in

:34:25.:34:29.

the 18th century. In the 18th century, the cheese made in the

:34:29.:34:32.

village of Stilton was the same as is subsequently amazed in

:34:32.:34:38.

Leicestershire. Foreign muck? ! Leicestershire, Derbyshire and

:34:38.:34:47.

Nottinghamshire are new boys to the scene. The owner of the Bluebell in

:34:47.:34:55.

wanted to increase production, he did a deal with Leicestershire, a

:34:55.:35:01.

married couple, they then allowed Leicestershire... Or I would say to

:35:01.:35:05.

Nigel is produce the facts, produced the dates and the documents and the

:35:05.:35:11.

authors. Have you been making cheese in Stilton for the last 200 years?

:35:11.:35:17.

Nigel says you have not. There has not been cheese for a while, I don't

:35:17.:35:24.

know for how long. If you want to change the European definition, it

:35:24.:35:30.

does not say it needs to be made in... It does.It says it should

:35:31.:35:36.

originally have been made there, and it was. I certainly know that one

:35:36.:35:40.

man has been making cheese for the past two years which to all intents

:35:40.:35:50.
:35:50.:35:50.

and purposes is Stilton and is. does it matter? For 100 years we had

:35:50.:35:57.

none at all. Why does it matter? matters that consumers need to know

:35:57.:36:02.

where the product comes from. What the protected designation does to

:36:02.:36:06.

any product is to tell the consumer worried has come from. At the moment

:36:06.:36:12.

it can only come from those three counties. Unless Nigel produces

:36:12.:36:17.

evidence, what this boils downed two is the existing Stilton is the ones

:36:17.:36:21.

to maintain their monopoly and cartel, they don't want anybody knew

:36:21.:36:30.

breaking the market. You as the chairman of the Stilton to should

:36:30.:36:40.
:36:40.:36:41.

say, welcome on board if you can provide the evidence. Up to now you

:36:41.:36:51.
:36:51.:36:51.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 44 seconds

:36:51.:37:52.

Agriculture and then it has to go evidence and we have got to problem

:37:52.:37:55.

with that. You have got to eat that before you

:37:55.:38:05.
:38:05.:38:11.

The political show moves on to tomorrow's Queen's Speech. It is

:38:11.:38:16.

the moment when the Government sets the agenda for the next 12 months.

:38:16.:38:22.

So what's on the cards? Jo has the details. Well, the much trailed

:38:22.:38:26.

Pensions Bill will introduce a single tier pension of �134 a week

:38:26.:38:32.

for everyone in Britain who spends 35 years working or or caring for

:38:32.:38:38.

children or the elderly. A new Immigration Bill is coming our way.

:38:38.:38:44.

It will allow foreign criminals to be deported more easily.

:38:44.:38:54.
:38:54.:38:56.

There will be a High-Speed Two Bill. Many Conservative backbenchers will

:38:56.:39:04.

be pleased that the commitment to dedicate 0.7% to international aid

:39:04.:39:09.

will not be enthis rind in law -- enshrined in law and there will be

:39:09.:39:14.

no snoopers charter. Despite the UKIP surge there will be no Bill

:39:14.:39:18.

paving the way for an EU referendum in the Queen's Speech.

:39:18.:39:27.

Thanks, Jo. With us now is Bob Neill. So are

:39:27.:39:36.

you giving up on the standard white cigarette packages and on the

:39:36.:39:39.

enshrining aid in law and you are going to be tough on immigrants in

:39:39.:39:42.

welfare. I guess UKIP is getting its way?

:39:42.:39:47.

Well, we needed to make space in the programme for the cheeses

:39:47.:39:53.

description amendments Bill, didn't we, Andrew?

:39:53.:39:59.

UKIP would like that! What we are con concentrating on are measures

:39:59.:40:03.

dealing with making sure the economy gets back on track,

:40:03.:40:07.

removing regulation and making sure we assist businesses going for

:40:07.:40:11.

growth. That's the key for the coming few months.

:40:11.:40:14.

What will be in the Queen's Speech that will get growth among

:40:14.:40:18.

businesses? Well, I am not going to pre-empt what's going to be in the

:40:18.:40:25.

Queen's Speech. But you will find a number of pressures there

:40:25.:40:32.

Give aus give us a taste of one? And there will be issues around

:40:32.:40:36.

that and we will be seeing outed important reforms around welfare,

:40:36.:40:46.
:40:46.:41:06.

so that people don't have the poorer pensions when they are older but

:41:06.:41:11.

they have had, looking after carers. Just in the summary that Jo made

:41:12.:41:18.

earlier, a really good collect Shannon of things will work. -- a

:41:18.:41:25.

really good collection of things. If you see any studies about the

:41:25.:41:29.

Borders agency, it has been disgraceful with many people waiting

:41:29.:41:37.

for ages to see if they are allowed to stay or not. We need to make sure

:41:37.:41:41.

the system works properly so that people who should be here can get

:41:41.:41:47.

here easily, people who should not be here cannot. Why have you

:41:47.:41:53.

abandoned to your pledge to have an amnesty for illegal immigrants?

:41:53.:42:00.

was not a pledge. We have heard of people who have waited for ten or 14

:42:00.:42:04.

years to have an answer from the Home Office, it strikes me that as a

:42:05.:42:08.

Home Office problem. Don't they deserve to stay? Wipe the slate

:42:08.:42:17.

clean -- clean? People who have been here for a long time are allowed

:42:17.:42:21.

nationality. You have abandoned a principle position which would make

:42:21.:42:26.

life easier for people who have been here illegally for a long time to go

:42:26.:42:31.

for the easier hit of bashing those who are coming recently. I said we

:42:31.:42:35.

wanted to make it easier for people who should be here to get here.

:42:35.:42:38.

Constituents find it very hard to get family visas, asylum claims are

:42:39.:42:44.

waiting for years, the Home Secretary is doing an inquiry

:42:44.:42:49.

because it is a disgrace that it takes so long. People who should be

:42:49.:42:54.

able to get into the country find it very hard, we should be able to fix

:42:54.:42:58.

that. It is hard to avoid the impression that you are running out

:42:58.:43:02.

of steam, there is nothing which will set the heather on fire.

:43:02.:43:07.

are important measures going forward. We are putting lots of

:43:07.:43:12.

things place. I remember my time as a minister, a great deal of the work

:43:12.:43:17.

is about implementation. That is what I mean, it may be that that is

:43:17.:43:21.

where you are. The die is cast on your deficit reduction policy, your

:43:21.:43:26.

welfare reforms are being ruled out, that will not change, your education

:43:26.:43:31.

reforms are still a work in progress. In a sense, you at a stage

:43:31.:43:36.

where there are no more big ideas. It is trying to do and get credit

:43:36.:43:41.

for what you already doing? Doing the job we set out to do, we should

:43:41.:43:48.

not apologise for that. Alan Johnson, you said that the aftermath

:43:48.:43:53.

was -- aftermath of last week's election was that David Miliband is

:43:53.:43:59.

showing too much alike? What does that mean? It is a fixed term

:43:59.:44:09.
:44:09.:44:10.

parliament, you do not know when the election will be called, it could be

:44:10.:44:14.

four years, it could be slightly less. We know there will not be an

:44:14.:44:17.

election until 2015, so under those circumstances, no opposition serious

:44:17.:44:20.

about getting into government wants to reveal too much to years ahead.

:44:20.:44:23.

You can reveal the direction of travel. The criticism of Ed

:44:23.:44:29.

Miliband, there is a whole raft... What a lot of people see as the

:44:29.:44:34.

problem is that the direction of travel has been to an unspecified

:44:34.:44:38.

vague new left, but all the suggestions are that the country is

:44:38.:44:43.

moving right. I can see nothing that will come in this Queen's Speech

:44:43.:44:48.

that tackles the main problem, lack of growth, a stagnant economy. What

:44:48.:44:55.

Ed Miliband is doing is saying how we can get the economy going.

:44:55.:45:02.

I don't agree that Ed Miliband has revealed very much policy at all. If

:45:02.:45:06.

the sheer number of bills passed was the test of success, the last

:45:06.:45:10.

government would have been a huge success. How many Immigration Bills

:45:10.:45:18.

did you have, eight or nine? last government dealt with the most

:45:18.:45:20.

serious economic crisis the world has had for 45 years. You campaigned

:45:20.:45:26.

on the same platform as us with Vince Cable, if you overdo austerity

:45:26.:45:32.

you will choke growth. We had growth of 1.8 % coming out of a recession,

:45:32.:45:37.

it is ridiculous for the Liberal Democrats to say that there was

:45:37.:45:42.

nothing in America, Lehman Brothers didn't happen, we got into this

:45:42.:45:47.

situation because we recruited more nurses and teachers. You deregulated

:45:47.:45:56.

the banks, you allowed the boom to continue. Are you in favour of

:45:56.:46:06.
:46:06.:46:10.

having a mandate referendum whereby you introduce a Referendum Bill, and

:46:10.:46:14.

the people voting would or would not mandate the government to

:46:14.:46:17.

renegotiate their powers? Are you in favour? The one caveat about that is

:46:17.:46:24.

we know... I am in favour of exploring all the options and making

:46:24.:46:34.

it very clear that we set out our stall for renegotiation and what it

:46:34.:46:38.

would be. We said we would publish a draft before the general election. I

:46:38.:46:42.

am in favour of publishing the draft bill, that makes sense. Whether or

:46:42.:46:46.

not the bill which would probably not get through adds anything to

:46:46.:46:50.

that, that is a question. Would it not help you with that was opposed

:46:51.:46:54.

by other parties? You would say they had a chance to vote, and the only

:46:54.:46:56.

party which would give you a referendum is to vote Conservative?

:46:56.:46:59.

That is superficially attractive, but we have already shown that the

:46:59.:47:04.

Prime Minister has delivered on the veto and the renegotiation of the

:47:04.:47:14.
:47:14.:47:17.

Budget, he will do that on the Government is to keep us safe, but

:47:17.:47:21.

monitoring those who would do us harm becomes more difficult and

:47:21.:47:24.

intrusive on the pif asy of ordinary people. This Government,

:47:24.:47:28.

like the one before t has tried to give the Security Services greater

:47:28.:47:34.

powers to monitor the internet, but its latest attempt, the

:47:34.:47:37.

Communications Data Bill has been vetoed by Nick Clegg and won't

:47:38.:47:45.

feature in tomorrow's Queen's Speech. A senior Lib Dem, Lord

:47:45.:47:48.

Carlisle accused his leader of putting party politics above

:47:48.:47:53.

national securitypm. David Thompson reports.

:47:53.:47:59.

Two plots to bring terror to the streets of Britain. One thwarted

:47:59.:48:03.

using surveillance intelligence, the other stopped by a random

:48:03.:48:08.

traffic check. That's the head quarters of MI5. Their job, to keep

:48:08.:48:12.

us safe by keeping one step ahead of terrorism and organised crime.

:48:12.:48:19.

But in an internet age, that job is increasingly difficult which is why

:48:19.:48:25.

successive governments tried to give them increased powers to

:48:25.:48:29.

scrutinise activities on websites. The latest attempt is the

:48:29.:48:33.

Communications Data Bill and experts believe it is crucial.

:48:33.:48:39.

kind of legislation is vital. The data that we are talking about has

:48:39.:48:44.

been used for crucial prsz, murder, -- prosecutions, murder, serious

:48:44.:48:47.

organised crime. I think it is necessary to have this Bill in

:48:47.:48:57.

order to organise data which is already available from mobile

:48:57.:49:00.

telephone operators. This is existing material that tells you

:49:00.:49:03.

the the when and the how long of communications.

:49:03.:49:07.

Maybe, but it has been dubbed the snoopers charter and derailed by

:49:07.:49:12.

Nick Clegg and is unlibly to see -- unlikely to see the light of day

:49:12.:49:18.

soon. The main criticism is on privacy grounds. The internet

:49:18.:49:21.

businesses expected to provide information on service users and

:49:21.:49:25.

hold it for 12 months are sceptical too.

:49:25.:49:29.

When you have people like Skype and Microsoft and Google asking what

:49:29.:49:32.

information is it that you want that we don't give you and the

:49:32.:49:36.

officials condition answer that question. Then it is time to take a

:49:36.:49:39.

step back from the Bill as we have and think about what information it

:49:39.:49:44.

is that we need. What people dubbed the snoopers

:49:44.:49:46.

charter, that is not going to happen.

:49:46.:49:52.

Nick Clegg was cheered by civil liberty campaigners when he vetoed

:49:52.:49:57.

the Bill. The man hose job it was to keep tabs on terrorism

:49:57.:50:04.

legislation. He is scathing. He has torpedoed this. I am disappoint

:50:04.:50:09.

that had some of the my my Liberal Democrat colleagues including a few

:50:09.:50:16.

in the Lords decided without knowing any of the evidence to

:50:16.:50:23.

oppose this legislation. If we don't have an organised

:50:23.:50:27.

Communications Data Bill which provides the authorities with

:50:27.:50:32.

access to the when and for how long of mobile phone telephone calls in

:50:33.:50:36.

appropriate cases then there will be increased danger to the public.

:50:36.:50:39.

That doesn't seem like responsible Government.

:50:39.:50:44.

The key task of the men and women who work in these buildings, MI5

:50:44.:50:48.

and MI6 is to safeguard our freedoms and our way of life. Their

:50:48.:50:51.

challenge to do it without destroying the things they are

:50:51.:50:57.

trying to preserve. Alan Johnston is still with us. He

:50:57.:51:03.

was Home Secretary in Gordon Brown's Government. Alan Johnson as

:51:03.:51:06.

Home Secretary you were privy to intelligence briefings. What do you

:51:07.:51:16.

make of the Liberal Democrats tor peed owing this Bill? -- por --

:51:16.:51:23.

torpedoing this Bill? I agree with Lord Carlisle. Julian sat on a

:51:23.:51:33.
:51:33.:51:33.

committee that produced a very good report as did the committee which

:51:33.:51:41.

men zee Campbell Menzies Campbell sits on said there was a problem

:51:41.:51:44.

that the problem is growing and the problem needs to be tackled. It

:51:44.:51:46.

isn't going to be tackled for two years.

:51:46.:51:50.

So was it responsible of the Liberal Democrats to do what they

:51:50.:51:55.

did? No, it was responsible to get the balance right between eitheries

:51:55.:52:04.

and the need for the -- -- civil liberties and there were problems

:52:04.:52:09.

with the draft Bill, but to scupper it... Is it responsible according

:52:09.:52:14.

to your colleague who knows something about this stuff. He did

:52:14.:52:17.

scrutinise terrorism legislation. He says it will lead to an increase

:52:17.:52:23.

in danger to the public. This was irresponsible Government?

:52:23.:52:29.

disagree. A huge amount this data is available. Last year, there were

:52:29.:52:34.

500,000 requests for this data under existing law. We know that

:52:34.:52:38.

Labour tried to expand it, to collect move information on every

:52:38.:52:41.

website that everybody went to. That's what that was and that's

:52:41.:52:45.

what this proposed Bill would have done. It is responsible responsible

:52:45.:52:50.

not to allow that to happen. The committee had a look and we said

:52:50.:52:53.

the information coming from the Home Office was unhelpful and

:52:53.:53:00.

misleading. We never said there was a need for legislation. There was.

:53:00.:53:03.

It doesn't say there was a need. You can have a look and you will

:53:03.:53:07.

see it does not say it. It says there is a case for legislation,

:53:07.:53:12.

but this goes further than it needs That does rather admit there is a

:53:12.:53:17.

case for some sort of law and an enhancing of the laws to pro at the

:53:17.:53:27.
:53:27.:53:27.

time individuals or to -- enhancing of the laws or to catch criminals?

:53:27.:53:32.

It could lead to less information being available to the police and

:53:32.:53:37.

the Security Services. If you had �1.8 billion to help the police,

:53:37.:53:40.

how would you spend it? His answer was not this Communications Data

:53:40.:53:44.

Bill. It was about having more police on the streets and more

:53:44.:53:48.

training. I am surprised any party wants to spend �1.8 billion on this

:53:48.:53:53.

rather rather than doing proper police. Would it have been value

:53:53.:53:58.

for money? When we have had Alan Johnson saying sophisticated

:53:58.:54:02.

criminals are going to be ahead of the technology and would have about

:54:02.:54:10.

enshrined in this Bill, pointless? Jacqui Smith published the

:54:10.:54:15.

consultation dumb on this. I saw it -- document on this. I think

:54:15.:54:20.

Theresa May and the Conservatives came in and they were libertarian.

:54:20.:54:24.

When they saw the evidence of the gap and no one can say what the gap

:54:24.:54:28.

is because it gives a gift to the people who want to exploit it. It

:54:28.:54:32.

was clear that there is a problem as the Intelligence and Security

:54:32.:54:39.

Committee on which Menzies Campbell sits.

:54:39.:54:43.

There were issues in the join committee report and Nick Brown sat

:54:43.:54:49.

on that and Julian and they they produced valid points. Now, that

:54:49.:54:54.

needs to be taken into account because it was a draft Bill and a

:54:54.:54:59.

new Bill needs to come forward. was a draft because Nick said it

:54:59.:55:03.

was a draft. I will quote you on that. But the issue about the gap

:55:03.:55:09.

has not been substantiated. We have been told there is a 25% gap. The

:55:09.:55:14.

former head of Fife said that relied -- MI5 said that. It was

:55:14.:55:19.

said by the former head of MI5. The case has not been made to spend

:55:19.:55:24.

billions of points setting up a database to keep track of every

:55:24.:55:29.

wooilt we go to. Every time we do something on Google, send a Gmail

:55:29.:55:32.

that's a huge amount of personal information.

:55:32.:55:36.

What you have not answered is, was it right to get rid of the

:55:36.:55:39.

legislation as a result? It is right not to have this new Bill,

:55:39.:55:41.

yes. You could have put safeguards in.

:55:41.:55:47.

You admitted there is a case to be made for new legislation and you

:55:47.:55:53.

have cast aside the legislation? would be comfortable with just

:55:53.:55:55.

having the extra safeguards. I don't think the Home Secretary was

:55:55.:56:00.

happy to do that. There is one issue of data about IP address

:56:00.:56:04.

matching which is is technical where there is agreement. That is

:56:04.:56:07.

what the police told us would be really useful.

:56:07.:56:11.

Are we going to be less safe? Julian was dealing with the police.

:56:11.:56:15.

His colleague was dealing with the intelligence services. A smaller

:56:15.:56:22.

part of this, law enforcement is the major part. 90% of the cases

:56:22.:56:25.

they resolve are resolved because they put together who was

:56:26.:56:29.

contacting who. Who else was in this plot? What the network is. And

:56:29.:56:34.

there is a tranche of this that is not legislated for and that puts us

:56:34.:56:44.
:56:44.:56:45.

in more dangerpm. I am going to have to finish it there.

:56:45.:56:49.

As well as being a former Home Secretary and former Education

:56:49.:56:56.

Secretary and former chancellor, Alan Johnson turned his hand to

:56:56.:57:05.

writing. This book, This Boy, is out this week. It focuses on Alan's

:57:05.:57:11.

tough upbringing on on an estate in London. Here is a snapshot of his

:57:11.:57:21.
:57:21.:57:21.

time in politics so far. People from my kind of background

:57:21.:57:31.
:57:31.:58:00.

It is simple. What we are worried about is you

:58:00.:58:09.

you haven't got the bottle or the experience.

:58:09.:58:16.

We have got the book. This Boy by Alan Johnson and I will make him

:58:16.:58:26.

sign it, but the unsigned copies are worth more. It really is an may

:58:26.:58:33.

an amazing story. My mum had a sad and tough life. She She died young.

:58:33.:58:37.

I call her Lily. She had a terrible life. She had a terrible life that

:58:37.:58:42.

that me and my sister escaped from because of her courage and because

:58:42.:58:48.

of her... Your sister a hero.She should have been Prime Minister!

:58:49.:58:52.

That generation, they took comfort in us having a better life?

:58:52.:58:55.

Absolutely. They came through the war. My mother came from a family

:58:55.:59:00.

of ten. Two of her siblings died young. A really tough life and were

:59:00.:59:02.

really, really determined to deliver a better future.

:59:03.:59:06.

We have to go. Harold Wilson is the answer to our quiz. He went to

:59:06.:59:13.

Europe to renegotiate and didn't give much back. That's it for today.

:59:13.:59:19.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS