Browse content similar to 07/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Daily Politics. As evidence grows that the Syrian regime is using | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
chemical weapons against its own people, so does pressure on Britain | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
and the West to help the rebels. We'll talk to one MP urging the | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
Prime Minister to seek Parliamentary approval before we do. Who's right | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
about A&E in England? Ed Miliband or David Cameron? After their spat at | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
Prime Minister's Questions we'll try to establish the facts. After a big | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
week for the two Eds, is Labour on the road to economic credibility or | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
has it just stopped digging the hole it's in? We'll put that to rising | :01:16. | :01:25. | |
Labour star Liz Kendall. Take a look at this little beauty. Top speed? | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
49mph! Fast! But what's happened to Government plans to raise the limit | :01:29. | :01:39. | |
:01:39. | :01:43. | ||
Queen might have visited New Broadcasting House this morning but | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
here in Millbank. We've got Fleet Street royalty. Polly Toynbee of The | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
Guardian. And Anne McElvoy, of The Economist. Welcome to you both. | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
Let's start with the lobbying scandal. The BBC Panorama | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
investigation that started it all was finally broadcast last night. | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
Controversy has raged all week with one MP and three peers alleged to be | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
implicated in wrong-doing. And the announcement that the government | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
would introduce a long-awaited lobbying register. Conservative MP | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Patrick Mercer resigned the Tory whip after claims that he broke | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
Parliament's lobbying rules. Here's a clip of Mr Mercer, talking to a | :02:25. | :02:34. | |
fake lobbyist, in the BBC sting. mention something about getting | :02:34. | :02:44. | |
:02:44. | :03:20. | ||
traction with the FCO? Well it all could do for what he thought was a | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
lobbyist. I mean, what is guilty of, no doubt, will come out in time, but | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
shouldn't he really be charged under that the trades description act for | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
making out that all-party groups of MPs matter at all? That is possibly | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
true, but it's still an unpleasant and greasy site to see that. | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
Basically, hawking his wares. Whether or not they are as he | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
describes, he put his hand up to his ear when the guy says it's not that | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
easy when clearly he's not sure what is talking about but, nonetheless, | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
the appearance you are trading favours is bad enough, and the | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
preparedness to do so is certainly contravention of his duties as an | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
MP. Whether he could bring home the bacon would've been a problem for | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
him. He would have had the money in the bank by then. And that's the | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
problem. I think he should be done for crass stupidity. Anybody that | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
stupid should not be allowed to enter the Commons. That's a high bar | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
there. For 20 years now, any lobbyist going into the Commons with | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
loads of money is certainly from the Sunday Times. Certainly. A fake | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
somebody from somewhere. Wouldn't you say that coming from 1 million | :04:35. | :04:43. | |
miles away? He had not even bothered to look it up to see if it existed | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
or not? That would be the real purpose of a register. If you had a | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
register and somebody approached you, you could check it on the | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
register. That's the reason why the register never get off the ground | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
because it really helps people trying to do a deal. It doesn't help | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
the rest of us very much. government, which is do nothing | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
about the register for three years, now Russia is one outcome and then, | :05:08. | :05:16. | |
from its own point of, quite cleverly links to bashing union | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
financing of the Labour Party. Extraordinary because when Labour | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
was in partly dashed party, Jack Straw and others were determined | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
this would be done fairly in a cross-party agreement and it never | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
happened because they could not get that and now suddenly, this | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
government says, let's wallop labour and leave it at that. It is at the | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
unfair. If we are going to have a fair and decent and clean system of | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
party financing, it ought to be state funded. It is the lesser of | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
many evils. I think we have to go for that and a great between the | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
parties. I'm told Mr Clegg is happy to go along with this bit of union | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
bashing because he's fed up when he goes back to Sheffield being | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
constantly verbally beaten up by the local government public sector | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
unions there. It's turned into a kind of anti-unionist. It's amazing | :06:13. | :06:20. | |
what too much contact with the trade unions can do to the left. I'm not a | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
fan of state funding and I think it has a lot of head and looks and | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
crannies of its own which can become problematic, but I'm not sure the | :06:27. | :06:36. | |
register as it is conceived will stop this thing happening again. | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Let's see what happens. I suspect people are disappointed Mr Mercer | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
gets to stay in the House of Commons for another two years. And does not | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
have to resign his seat straightaway and can carry on doing its own | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
expenses. Last month the EU lifted its arms embargo on Syria with | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
Britain and France making the case that they should open up the | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
possibility of arming Syrian rebels. And the argument for that is growing | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
stronger as more evidence emerges that the Assad regime has used | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
chemical weapons against its own people. But MPs from all parties who | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
fear the consequences of any such intervention are putting pressure on | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
the Government to commit to a vote in the House of Commons before a | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
decision is taken. Here's one of them, Conservative Julian Lewis, | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
asking David Cameron about the issue at Prime Minister's Questions on | :07:18. | :07:28. | |
:07:28. | :07:34. | ||
Can the Prime Minister confirmed that he will recall Parliament | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
before any action is taken to arm the Syrian opposition during the | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
recess? I have never been someone who is wanted a stand against the | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
house having to say on any of these issues, and I've always been someone | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
early on to make sure that Parliament is recalled to discuss | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
important issues, let me stress, as I did on Monday, no decision has | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
been taken to arm the rebels, so I don't think this issue arises, but, | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
as I say, I support holding that vote on Iraq. In my premiership, | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Wenger was the issue of Libya, I recall the issue of Libya, I | :08:09. | :08:19. | |
recalled as soon as I possibly could and I know it has to have a vote, | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
but this issue does not arise at present because we have made no | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
decision to arm the rebels. Well, that the Minister yesterday | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
answering Julian Lewis who joins us now. Andrew Lansley added a bit. | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
Tell us, Julian, as we sit here this morning, on the issue of arming the | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
rebels, what have you got? I am wholly opposed to arm in the rebels | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
and that is for the same reason I was in favour of previous military | :08:42. | :08:50. | |
intervention. I didn't mean on the subject but what have you got in | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
Parliamentary terms? Do you believe the government cannot do it unless | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
it puts it before the house and gets a vote? I believe the government | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
could proceed without a vote but they would be unwise to do so and I | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
also believe that if they put it to a vote, the portability if they | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
would lose. What did you get from the leader of the house yesterday? | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
The implication from David Cameron was I will recall the house if we | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
are in the summer recess. Andrew Lansley, the leader of the house, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
suggesting there would be a vote. How bankable are these commitments? | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
I don't know, I wasn't at that session yesterday. But my | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
understanding is we are slowly decreasing the wriggle room of the | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
government. If the government thought they were going to be able | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
to get this through behind Parliament 's back, during the | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
recess, they will have to think again. The implication is that the | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
government could still have some wriggle room? I think they could | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
proceed to give the arms to the rebels and then seek Parliamentary | :09:55. | :10:04. | |
approval after it was a say to complete -- once it was done. | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
this becomes a major issue in the summer recess, when Parliament is | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
down, should Parliament be recalled before the government proceeds to | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
arm the rebels? Yes, that was the point of my question to the Prime | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
Minister on Wednesday. But you don't think you have a clear answer to | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
that? He is moving closer to the position I want to take wishes to | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
say the rebels will not be sent arms by the British unless and until | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
Parliament has voted in favour of it. But he has not said it | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
explicitly yet. Why should Parliament be called for arming the | :10:45. | :10:54. | |
rebels? It's in a different category from Britain sending troops to Iraq | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
or Afghanistan or even troops to Syria. I think on the president of | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
what happened in Libya, you can see what was presented parliament them, | :11:03. | :11:10. | |
as a no-fly zone, turned out in reality to be an active air to | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
ground campaign on behalf of one side in a civil war and we had a | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
vote on that. No one so far is suggesting that the British armed | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
forces get involved in Syria either from the air or on the ground. | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
that case, the government is dammed if it does or doesn't. If it | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
proposes simply to hand over arms without having any sort of presence | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
as to how the people will be instructed to use them, how they | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
will be used in conflict, and who will get their hands on them, if | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
they simply say, we are going to parachute a great supply of lethal | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
military equipment and let them get on with it, I think you would | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
typically find it didn't work out like that. This would be the foot in | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
the door towards military intervention or otherwise it's even | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
more stupid than I think the government's declared policy at the | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
moment is. A lot of people wouldn't argument that a lot of people would | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
not argue, if we went to war, they need arms, but I'm sure the Foreign | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
Office sees it this way, that this is the commons trying to determine | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
foreign policy. I think they need to express a view and have an | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
opportunity to express it on a proposal to assist one side in a | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
Civil War where our deadliest enemies, Al-Qaeda, are fighting on | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
the side we are proposing to assist and the people who they are trying | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
to overthrow, have got a stock of deadly nerve gases, which would more | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
likely than not, fall into the hands of Al-Qaeda. A lot of Conservative | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
backbenchers agree with you? Definitely. You could join the | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
labour this came to a vote. If you join Labour and some Liberal | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Democrats, too, the government may not get this policy through | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
Commons. That is exactly my view. I believe what is going to happen is | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
that Labour, if the government is unwise enough to try and circumvent | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
Parliament, Labour will probably make some of its opposition day time | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
available and then we could have a debate on the basis that this should | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
not proceed without Parliament being recalled first and what's more, I, | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
and I know plenty of other people in the Conservative and Liberal | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
Democrat parties, would be happy to co-sponsor a motion of that sort. | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
Brought by the Labour Party and before the summer recess? On a | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
cross-party basis, simply that the Labour Party would facilitate it as | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
having the time to have the debate, which Parliament should certainly | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
have anyway and which I'm sure the government would want to do if it | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
thought Parliament was on its side. It seems to me that the Prime | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
Minister is room for manoeuvre is getting more confined. Events have | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
made it so it's hard to avoid bringing this before Parliament, | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
even in a recess and it's by no means clear he could win a vote if | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
it did go before the Commons. think you properly wouldn't and what | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
he said in the Commons was merely a pledge. It's interesting because it | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
opens up a whole lot of questions which you suggested. Should we have | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
a vote in Parliament every time we sell weapons to anybody? We sell | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
weapons to everybody, Saudi Arabia. If we had a proper open discussion | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
about that, I think a lot of our arms sales would come a stop. What's | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
being proposed now, I totally understand and I completely | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
sympathise with Cameron's feelings. We must do something when we see | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
appalling things happen and go in there and support the good guys but | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
I agree with Julian, it's not practical. This is an interesting | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
Parliamentary technicality. It's important but does not answer the | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
question which is really the vital one, which is what to do about | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
Syria, the situation with President Assad. Coming from the American | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
perspective, the leaders in all this, Barack Obama is looking like | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
Clinton in Bosnia, allowing a budget on a massive scale, and the rise of | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
Al-Qaeda and this it seems to me, seems to be the more important | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
point. I'm worried about binding the hands of the executive and | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
Parliament is not staffed with experts on this and related issues. | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
Like these Arabian experts who told us about the Arab Spring. And a | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
great game in Afghanistan. OK, we have to leave it there. This issue | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
will obviously be important. It remains unresolved, Syria, and I | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
reserve the argument. Will you come back and tell us of development? | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
Yes, of course I will. I'd be happy to do that but I want to make this | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
one thing clear, in the case of a rock, the whole point was to keep | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
chemical weapons away from Al-Qaeda. If we assist them to take over in | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Syria, we will be bringing them closer to having chemical weapons. | :16:17. | :16:27. | |
:16:27. | :16:30. | ||
That worked in a block because they did not have any. Thank you. Too | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
many of us find ourselves cruising along the motorway over the speed | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
limit. The government announced in 2011 it would consider setting a | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
limit at 80. Since then, they have gone very quiet about it. We have | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
been finding out if history can tell us why that might be. | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
There was a time when going for a drive was an expensive luxury, done | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
for the sheer hell and fun of it. An age when life wasn't about traffic | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
wardens and congestion. What hasn't changed almost from the start of | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
motoring is our habit of driving fast and the political rows about | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
controlling our need for speed. This is a 114-year-old speeding ticket | :17:24. | :17:34. | |
:17:34. | :17:41. | ||
issued for the crime of clocking over four miles an hour. By 1903, | :17:41. | :17:49. | |
cars were more powerful and 14 mile an hour limit was raised to 20. | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
There was a terrific fight. The fight was an interesting one, a | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
class fight. These rich aristocrats, for the first time, came into | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
conflict with the police who were their natural allies. Suddenly they | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
were breaking the law. The police were imposing speed traps. | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
This conflict wasn't just between motorists and the law, but between | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
motorists who have always been split over speed. | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
I divide it into, on the one hand, the Jeromy Clarkson s of the world | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
who want to go as fast as they can. And, those who believe that, yes, | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
indeed, they are drivers and with light the road to suit them, but | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
they also realise they are citizens and they do not want to mow down | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
children. They feel responsible. This 1901 French car can go a | :18:51. | :18:58. | |
surprising lack, 49 miles an hour. When it was in use, what kept the | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
speed gun wasn't the law as the state of the road. Today, that is | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
still true, despite ever more powerful cars, congestion on | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
overloaded roads and motorways is a bigger deterrent to speeding down | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
the law. Politicians today are no more inclined to enter the speeding | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
debate than in 1903. Being the Minister of death is the | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
last thing any politician wants to do. You have to be a bold or foolish | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
position to advocate raising the speed limit on motorways -- foolish | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
politician. There could be an appalling crash by large numbers of | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
people will be killed and you will be in the firing line. | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
Coming up hard against facts like that, you can see why ministers and | :19:47. | :19:57. | |
the motorist might rather hanker for driving along at 20 in the sunshine. | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
Joining us in the studio is former Top Gear presenter and motoring | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
journalist Sue Baker. Welcome. Should the speed limit to be raised | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
to 80? It is sensible it should be. Any law which is disregarded by 50% | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
of the population is bad law. It would bring us into line with most | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
of the rest of Europe where 81 mph is the permitted speed limit on | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
motorways. But wouldn't more people die? | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
There is the fear of that. The reason cars crash is because they | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
are too close to one another, speed in itself is not dangerous. Cars in | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
close books imitate, that is dangerous. We need to enforce the | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
suggested new law. Correction-macro cars in close proximity, that is | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
dangerous. We need to get more discipline in lanes. | :20:55. | :21:05. | |
You say speed doesn't cause crashes. But 1.4% of all crashes in Britain | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
result in a fatality, but 2% on the motorways. I would suggest that is | :21:11. | :21:18. | |
because cars are going faster. Faster, but in close proximity. | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
You don't want people tailgating, holding lanes, getting other drivers | :21:23. | :21:32. | |
frustrated. I like the nanny state. When did | :21:32. | :21:40. | |
that happen? The petrol heads are libertarians, seat belts and speed | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
limits are dreadful. Very few politicians who have made an impact, | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
they have brought in speed limits and seat belts which have saved | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
lives and made a real difference to huge numbers of people. Anyone who | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
wants to be the Minister of death, I don't recommend it. | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
I am sceptical. People ignoring driving at 80 when there is a 70 | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
speed limit. Then if you raise the speed limit, people will chance it, | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
that is what behavioural psychology tells us. In Germany where there is | :22:19. | :22:28. | |
:22:29. | :22:30. | ||
a higher speed limit, this is a regulated general society. The | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
modern car can go very fast and people will do that. The idea you | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
can enforce people not driving in the middle lane sufficient to offset | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
this is a dream. We are better off where we are. | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
The difference in Germany is many motorways have no top speed limit. | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
The speed differential between people doing a comfortable speed of | :22:54. | :23:02. | |
80 miles an hour, and 150 in supercars, that is the problem. | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
Most of the crashes are around the 80 mph. | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
A lot of people drive between 70 and 80 on the motorways because they | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
have a feeling the police will let them do it. That you have to be | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
above 80 before the police will call you over. What is to stop the idea, | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
if AT is the official limit, then 80-90 is acceptable. | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
Let us enforce a sensible law. We are cutting police numbers now. | :23:34. | :23:42. | |
The report today is talking about speed cameras. The libertarian press | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
were against speed cameras but they have done very well. The RAC says | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
the king at data, crashes were cut by more than a quarter after cameras | :23:53. | :24:02. | |
were put in place. Those 20 -- but those figures, in | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
those counties, accident rates have gone up. You can draw what you like | :24:09. | :24:19. | |
:24:19. | :24:20. | ||
from those statistics. I am sure if it was 80... I would | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
try not to exceed the limit. I don't use the car very much, I nearly | :24:25. | :24:35. | |
:24:35. | :24:37. | ||
always go by train. What about you? My worry is with a higher speed | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
limit, I would want to go slower. I must confess I have gone over the 70 | :24:44. | :24:54. | |
:24:54. | :25:00. | ||
speed limit. Why aren't you on Top Gear? Because I am not Jeromy | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
Clarkson! We had better leave it there. | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
Now, no question which party has dominated politics this week. For | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
the last seven days, it's been all about Labour. This week was a double | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
"Edder" as we were treated to big speeches from Balls and Miliband, | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
with the same broad underlying message: Labour won't be lax with | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
your tax. On Monday, the Shadow Chancellor talked about the need for | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
"an iron discipline" on spending control and hinted that Labour's | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
would not be radically alter George Osborne's "very tough spending plans | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
from this year's Spending Review". Adding: "They will be our starting | :25:34. | :25:44. | |
point." On welfare, Mr Balls stated that wealthy pensioners should no | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
longer receive the winter fuel allowance, which critics saw as a | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
move away from the principle of universal benefits. | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
On Wednesday, it emerged that Labour would not reverse the Government's | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
decision to means test child benefit. | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
Yesterday, it was his leader's turn to sell the tough message announcing | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
a three-year cap on structural welfare spending. | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
Exactly how the cap will work in practice, its level, and who might | :26:09. | :26:19. | |
:26:19. | :26:22. | ||
be directly affected, remains to be seen. | :26:22. | :26:31. | |
What do we make of this? Is this a significant week for Labour? Has it | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
moved in a different direction or has it done some major U-turns? It | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
is a pretty significant week for Labour. | :26:40. | :26:50. | |
:26:50. | :26:50. | ||
We can see from your headlines, cat welfare spending. Universal | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
benefits, no longer in favour of those, after resistance to George | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
Osborne and getting rid of child benefits for higher earners. We can | :27:00. | :27:07. | |
see repositioning here. At launching his weakness particularly on | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
benefits, the welfare system and spending. Whatever he said, he has | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
not been able to address. He is moving in a different direction. How | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
far can he take his own party? And make it coherent? | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
How significant? Very significant they have accepted what was | :27:27. | :27:37. | |
inevitable, on spending. Within that, they can move plenty of things | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
around, they can put more into benefits, whatever they want within | :27:42. | :27:49. | |
that year. Also, it is important to remember, it doesn't include | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
investment. Gordon Brown is important role on that. | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
Borrow for capital investment. I am sure they will come in with | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
something like 1 million new homes over the period of the parliament, | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
still less than Harold Macmillan built. Huge investment for growth, | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
jobs, apprenticeships. You worry about the chipping away of | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
the universal benefit principle. The winter fuel allowance was never | :28:21. | :28:30. | |
universal. The idea of giving someone like me in winter fuel | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
allowance is plainly daft. As for child benefit, for better off | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
families. If you were coming in now, what government in its right mind | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
would say, the first �2.3 billion I spent would be giving it to a | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
handful of the richest families. It is straightforward. | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
Not just the richest families but the middle. | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
The top 10%. In London and the south-east, it | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
affects a lot of people who are on �50,000 a year. | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
They are still the top 10%. Because we live in the bubble we do, we | :29:09. | :29:18. | |
forget the medium is now 21,000 -- the median. | :29:18. | :29:28. | |
How much do you think this was focus group driven? The polls show Labour | :29:28. | :29:38. | |
:29:38. | :29:47. | ||
consistently ahead, but not kind to welfare, benefits, which tend to get | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
people going in the run-up to elections, people were not sure | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
about what Ed Miliband's position worth. It's interesting that Polly | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
says he has room for manoeuvre on benefits. I think it leaders | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
manoeuvre too much, he's back where he started. If he says, I'd take | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
this on board and I will put a cap on things but I want to move things | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
around and raise benefits, I think he loses the political edge of this | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
message which is, I am realistic about public finances. Housing | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
benefit is the one benefit... needs to build a lot more homes. | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
He's not going to bring in rent control, is he? They probably will | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
have to do. I think you could say, no rent can rise for a few years | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
above inflation. And that, over time, would bring down housing | :30:43. | :30:51. | |
benefit. And then you would stop building builder to let. No one has | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
ever managed to get the money out of pension funds to do that. It never | :30:54. | :31:02. | |
happens. But to building?The government. As shoot a social | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
programme, not directly, directly, authorities, housing associations. | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
They are the people... There will have to be a rise in the housing | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
stock. Labour and the Tories can come up with different ways but that | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
seems to be the only way to get out of the housing shortage. It's one of | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
the things people will cast their vote. Probably not the last | :31:23. | :31:31. | |
election. Even though Labour's record is poor. This government | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
managed to build even fewer. That's extraordinary. Public opinion is in | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
favour of borrowing for growth. They are in favour of borrowing for | :31:41. | :31:51. | |
growth in housing. This week, a poll says Labour are only 4% behind on | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
who is best to manage the economy. When Tony Blair went into the 1987 | :31:57. | :32:04. | |
election, he was 7% behind. Also 30 points ahead in the polls. Lots of | :32:04. | :32:12. | |
other compensatory policies. Are you clear that, hasn't Labour actually | :32:12. | :32:19. | |
said that they will accept the 2015 current spending tax? I'm pretty | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
sure about it. I have not seen it in black-and-white. They don't know | :32:23. | :32:31. | |
what they're going to get. We have got Ed Balls on the Sunday Politics. | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
On your behalf, all will be crystal clear. No doubletalk of there.A | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
sense of irony there, I don't know. I think he was clear this week on | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
more than it has been in the past. was hoping to interview Liz Kendall | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
today. The up-and-coming Labour star, but it doesn't look like we | :32:51. | :32:58. | |
have her, but we will continue because economic policy was not Ed | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
Miliband's argument of choice at Prime Minister's Questions this | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
week. I wonder why? Instead, the Labour leader went on the attack | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
over waiting times in Accident and Emergency departments in England | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
which hit a nine-year high in the first quarter of this year. Here's a | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
reminder of Wednesday's argument about the issue. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
Two years ago, during the Prime Minister's listening exercise on | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
health service he said this, "I refuse to go back to the days when | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
people had to wait for hours on end to be seen in A&E, so let me be | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
absolutely clear, we won't. " what is gone wrong? We are now meeting | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
targets for accident and emergency. There was a problem in the first | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
quarter this year which is why the medical director of the NHS will be | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
holding an investigation. The crucial factor is this. Over the | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
last three years, there is 1 million more people walking into accident | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
and emergency unit every year. independent King 's fund says the | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
number of people waiting more than four ours is higher than at any time | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
for nine years. Can he explain to the countrywide A&E waiting times | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
fell under Labour and have gone up under his watch? The fact is, we are | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
now meeting our targets. That's what happened in the House of Commons | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
over A&E. We are joined now by someone who can shed a light on all | :34:25. | :34:32. | |
of this. Ruth Dalby, a senior fellow at the Nuffield trust who knows a | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
thing about this. Welcome to the programme. Ed Miliband has talked | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
about a crisis in A&E. Is there one? I think the A&E department across | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
the country are under severe pressure. We know that they have | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
been struggling to meet their four-hour A&E waiting times since | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
last summer, so it's to the same that this peaked between January and | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
March this year and they failed to meet the target. They went from 5% | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
of people waiting longer than five hours and went up to 6%. It's true | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
to say that since the 12th of May, it has improved dramatically so the | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
big question is, can this be sustained? Would it be fair to say | :35:16. | :35:23. | |
it was a cold winter? Wintertime, more people use A&E. And as | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
stretched into spring, winter, and there's been a seasonal problem but | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
now the seasonal problem seems to be largely over? That is possibly true. | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
I think the underlying factor is that, over time, more people have | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
been gradually using A&E for a whole variety of reasons. It is not true | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
to say that this is simply down to the GP contract which was | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
renegotiated in 2004. Some have claimed this meant out-of-hours care | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
suddenly collapsed and everybody poured into A&Es but it's not true. | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
Out of hours in some areas have been a problem and people feel at easier | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
to get A&E departments, but it's a whole complex set of reasons behind | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
this. Including factors like older people who inevitably have more | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
health problems who can't have it sold in primary care. A lot of young | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
children come into A&E and that's because parents are worried and need | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
reassurance and also 30-year-olds coming in for all sorts of reasons | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
as well. The underlying trend is more people are coming in and the | :36:30. | :36:39. | |
real challenge is they are having to be treated with flat budgets. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
Another explanation is immigration, a lot of immigrants to this country | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
who come from countries where they don't have a doctor, and they | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
haven't arranged their own GPs, so when something goes wrong with them | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
and their families, the natural place for them to go is A&E. Is that | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
a factor? There's no evidence to suggest not happening on a major | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
scale in the NHS. Locally, in some areas, it could be a problem where | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
people are not registered with GPs or may find it hard and, in some | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
hospitals, in areas, they will put GP services inside A&E departments | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
to improve it but on the whole, it's just not true. The Prime Minister | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
has made a great deal of how bad things are in Wales on waiting times | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
and so on. Wales is run by Labour, obviously, and hasn't done most of | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
the reforms the English health services gone through. Are things | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
bad in Wales? It's under pressure, it's also got financial problems, | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
and problems in its A&E departments. It's difficult to make | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
direct comparisons. They have an older population, more deprived | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
population, and in many parts of Wales, it's quite rural, so they | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
have different problems but whether you can pin it on a specific flavour | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
of government, I'm not sure. Thank you very much for marking our card | :38:03. | :38:10. | |
on that. We have sold the technical problem, partly and let's have a | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
look at Liz Kendall in Leicester. There has been a sound problem. | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
She's having to hold an earpiece to her ear. Can you hear me? I can, as | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
long as I held it like this. Let me begin on the waiting times. It was a | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
cold winter, more people went to the A&E departments, breaching of the | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
targets, but it's back on track again for some it has come down | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
again to the target, so it's not a crisis, is it? A&E is a barometer as | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
to how the rest of the NHS is doing and if you listen to independent | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
experts like the Nuffield trust and the NHS Confederation, they say | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
there are real stresses and strains on the system which has been caused | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
a lot by the pressures on social care, so elder people who could be | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
capped at home healthy and independent, are ending up in | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
hospital. Real problems with the new 111 number and issues around | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
staffing cuts, specifically nurses. In Leicester we've had real problems | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
in A&E. My local clinical commissioning groups say those are | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
the reasons for those problems and my concern has been that we were | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
warned the government back in January about the pressures on it | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
and it was only on the 9th of May that the government wrote to people | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
saying, where are your action plans? It's too little too late. But it's | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
back on target now. Well, we will see. We have been speaking to people | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
and we'll see. We will see whether those improvements are sustained and | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
also when we come to the next winter, whether the real changes we | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
need, to put much more support in the community under home, joining a | :40:00. | :40:09. | |
social care, has been done. Do you have any evidence anybody died? | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
have not talked about people who may have suffered from the A&E crisis, | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
but what we do know is waiting in A&E are at their highest for nine | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
years, cancelled operations and trolley waits are the highest for | :40:22. | :40:29. | |
nine years. Given that the A&E target is only 5% of people should | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
have to wait more than four hours, what happened at the worst period | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
was 5.9%, it increased, you say no one died but as the party presided | :40:39. | :40:48. | |
over the mid-Staffs tragedy, don't you do more humble on this matter? | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
300,000 people are waiting more than four hours in A&E and that is not | :40:51. | :40:58. | |
acceptable. How many died mid-Staffs? What happened in | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
mid-Staffs was utterly appalling and unacceptable and we need to learn | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
lessons from that. I think there were things from there which are | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
also relevant to the A&E crisis. You need enough properly trained staff | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
but ultimately, what you need is to transform the system so we have more | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
support for elderly and vulnerable people at home and if the government | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
has spent the last three years focused on proper forms instead of | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
this wasteful talk down reorganisation, we would be in a | :41:26. | :41:36. | |
:41:36. | :41:41. | ||
better place now. What is different for Labour's policy position today | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
than it was last weekend? I think we have set out some really fundamental | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
reforms to the Social Security system. It will help people work, to | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
reform housing benefit, to tackle issues in incapacity benefit, and | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
encourage more parents of young children to get work ready before | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
their children are aged five. We are really looking at the root causes of | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
the increase in the welfare bill. And trying to set forward some | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
proper reforms that will make it better for people to work and have | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
the opportunities to have a good living standard for their families | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
and to tackle low pay. I think Ed sent out some really... Give me an | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
example of where you are different last weekend. Housing is a real | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
issue. Ed said before we came too late to the housing issue in | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
government and we have set forward some strong proposals about how we | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
can start shifting spending money on housing benefit into house-building. | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
Investing in the future rather than... I don't know what that means | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
in terms of policy. What it means is, we want to get new powers to | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
local councils to negotiate better deals of landlords, see proper | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
affordable housing for people, I also think we have put forward some | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
clear proposals on it. Something the government has failed to do. We also | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
want to look at reforming incapacity benefit and the tests that there are | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
for people with disabilities who can work and we have said we want to | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
take action on low pay. That's what the government is doing. | :43:18. | :43:25. | |
government is never done that. talking about incapacity benefit. | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
Their tests are not working. When 40% of people who repeal those | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
decisions are people with disabilities and they are being | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
repealed and they are upheld, the system is not working. We want to | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
work with disability groups to focus on the people who can work and what | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
skills they can offer and having a proper work programme. Here in | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
Leicester, we had a great work programme which was scrapped. The | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
new work programme here is not working for people locally. It's a | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
big change. Can you clarify something for me because it's not | :43:57. | :44:05. | |
quite clear. Will Labour accept current spending plans for 2015-16? | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
They have got to be our starting point. So you will accept them?They | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
have got to be our starting point. Will you accept them? They're 30 | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
colonic policy means they are borrowing much more than they | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
originally planned. We have got to take difficult decisions and they | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
will be our starting point. interested in this phrase, " | :44:28. | :44:37. | |
starting point". So will you accept the 2015-16 spending plans you will | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
inherit? It's got to be our starting point. As the shadow... Can't you | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
say the word accept? Why can't you say the word accept? Maybe you | :44:50. | :44:57. | |
don't? You seem to have picked on a formulation of words to try and get | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
you off the hook of saying you actually accept the spending plans. | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
You will understand, Andrew, what the government predicted what would | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
happen to the economy two years ago is fundamentally different to what | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
we have now. What they predict in June could be the reality of the | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
economy in two years time but as a shadow health minister for older | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
people, we have to do take what the government said as a starting point | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
and look at how we make different decisions about priorities and | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
spending within those limits and that's what we have said and that's | :45:27. | :45:37. | |
:45:37. | :45:39. | ||
what we'll to do. You have now accepted the winter fuel payment | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
should be means tested, and child benefit should be means tested. | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
Anything else you have in mind which should be means tested? | :45:50. | :46:00. | |
:46:00. | :46:02. | ||
I really agree, further 5% of the that. We will come forward with more | :46:02. | :46:10. | |
detailed Persaud 's goals -- proposals but this shows if you had | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
to make a decision, in terms of the winter fuel payment, with all the | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
other pressures in the system, payment to the richest 5%, is an | :46:19. | :46:26. | |
indication of our approach. I don't think you are in a position | :46:26. | :46:33. | |
to tell me. If you promise to come back to tell us first, we promise to | :46:33. | :46:40. | |
get you a proper sound system! So, lots going on this week. In case | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
you missed any of it, here's a reminder of the week in just 60 | :46:43. | :46:53. | |
:46:53. | :46:53. | ||
seconds. The week began with allegations of | :46:53. | :46:59. | |
three lords lobbying. Claims of wrongdoing were denied but to be on | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
the safe side the government announced plans to introduce a new | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
register. And they thought it was time to look at union membership and | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
political donations. Again. Ed Miliband and Ed Balls sketched out | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
some new ideas on the economy. The idea of axing winter fuel payments | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
for pensioners. And ruling out bringing back child benefit for the | :47:26. | :47:35. | |
better. The House of Lords that the government gave marriage plans. | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
There will be increased pressures for polygamy. | :47:39. | :47:48. | |
There were tantrums after Nick Clegg through his plans to relax rules on | :47:48. | :47:58. | |
:47:58. | :47:59. | ||
child out. Nick Clegg got his way on childcare, | :47:59. | :48:07. | |
is that a surprise? That is a surprise in one. The | :48:07. | :48:17. | |
:48:17. | :48:17. | ||
deregulation of childcare did run a very long time. In the end, it has | :48:17. | :48:25. | |
been batted out of court. What does it tell us about the state | :48:25. | :48:32. | |
of the coalition? It shows you the Lib Dems are good at putting a brake | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
on bonkers ideas. The idea one childminder could look | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
after six under two-year-old children. | :48:42. | :48:51. | |
There is a real problem. All he has done, there is not another solution | :48:51. | :49:01. | |
:49:01. | :49:03. | ||
for childcare. That wasn't a solution. The problem | :49:03. | :49:10. | |
has not been sold but one thing has been stopped. | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
It wasn't a solution. This will be a good battle ground at the next | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
Now, you might have thought that was your lot for this week, but no, | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
because there's more. You lucky people. This morning, the Prime | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
Minister has been to sunny Stirling. Hardly Ibiza but, by the look of it, | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
he'll still be topping up the tan. His companion this time, not Sam | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
Cam, but Ruth Davidson, the embattled leader of the Tories in | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
Scotland. Mr Cameron has been addressing the party this morning, | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
and here's what he had to say. Our United Kingdom 's history has | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
always been one of shared endeavour. Proud in our individual | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
identities but working together for a common good. We saw it when our | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
soldiers brought together under one flag on the beaches of Normandy. | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
When our doctors came together to build our NHS. In the scientific | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
breakthroughs we have made together, through television and | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
penicillin. And last summer as athletes around Britain, no matter | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
where they were from, draped themselves in one flag. There is so | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
much more still to come. Why wouldn't we want to face the future | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
together? There is no challenge we face together where breaking up | :50:21. | :50:29. | |
Britain is the right answer. David Cameron. I'm delighted to say | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
that Ruth Davidson, Tory leader in Scotland, joins us now from | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
Stirling. Why won't you give the party | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
faithful a debate on whether or not the Scottish Parliament should have | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
more powers? We have asked Lord Strathclyde to | :50:46. | :50:54. | |
bring forward proposals and asking the party to feed into. When those | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
proposals are brought forward, they can be the focus for debate. | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
Wouldn't he have liked to hear the party faithful with their views at | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
conference, so he could sweep up the mood of your party? | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
We have invited people within the party. | :51:14. | :51:20. | |
Why no debate? There is an open question Time | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
session so people can ask anything they like. Presumably the | :51:24. | :51:32. | |
constitution will come in that. In terms of a debate, you need emotion, | :51:32. | :51:39. | |
firm proposals. Tom Strathclyde has not completed his work. Those | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
proposals will be taken to our members. | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
Don't you owe it to the Scottish Conservative members? You won the | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
leadership of your party campaigning against further powers for Scottish | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
Parliament. You have now set up a commission to look at further | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
powers. You have changed your mind, shouldn't your members have their | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
say? They are having their say. Not a | :52:04. | :52:14. | |
:52:14. | :52:20. | ||
debate. Are you afraid? Not at all. What is important to remember is, | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
between now and the referendum, we will have a report from Tom | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
Strathclyde, serious proposals brought forward to debate. We have | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
three conventions each year for our members to bring forward things. | :52:35. | :52:43. | |
have you changed your mind? In terms of, the last few years, we have seen | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
the constitutional debate live on. The stresses majority government has | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
put on. And in terms of someone in the Scottish Parliament every day, | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
we see where those stressors show the Parliamentary system are | :53:01. | :53:10. | |
wanting. In terms of Post a referendum, if we win it, we need to | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
have a constitutional settlement which people in Scotland are happy | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
with. Stable, devolved government. Sir Alex Salmond does not come back | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
in five years or ten years agitating for another referendum. We need to | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
make sure it is a settlement which meet the aspirations of people in | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
Scotland. A stable settlement. When your party voted your leader on the | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
visible you wouldn't draw a line in the sand on any more powers being | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
transferred to Scotland, it turned out that line was actually in the | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
sand and easily washed away. When people were voting in the | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
Parliamentary and leadership elections, it was a lot more on | :53:59. | :54:08. | |
other issues as much as the situation at issue. Correction-macro | :54:08. | :54:17. | |
constitutional issue. We saw the Prime Minister arguing for a United | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
Kingdom but without a united party. A lot of things were discussed will | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
stop a lively leadership campaign. What I am doing is bringing forward | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
a mechanism for people from different parts of the spectrum in | :54:32. | :54:39. | |
our party to feed into Tom Strathclyde. I look forward to the | :54:39. | :54:47. | |
work his commission is doing. You say you have kept the Scottish | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
Conservative party going. It has had some stability. The stability of the | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
graveyard. You are dead in the water. | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
When I took over, we had 19 years of decline, that is difficult to turn | :55:02. | :55:11. | |
around overnight. The party is in better shape to fight elections. We | :55:11. | :55:18. | |
are building a policy platform, with an energy review policy. Rural | :55:18. | :55:27. | |
policy. Bringing in all of the talents we have in the party. And | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
seeing improvements in terms of polling and research. | :55:31. | :55:41. | |
:55:41. | :55:42. | ||
Let me give you the figures. 1997, you had 18% of the vote, lost every | :55:42. | :55:52. | |
:55:52. | :55:53. | ||
seat in Scotland. 2005, 16%. 2010, 17%. The latest shows you around | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
16%. I repeat, you are dead in the water, this is the end. | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
I took over in November 2011. To build a strong policy platform to | :56:03. | :56:12. | |
take our message to the people of Scotland. In 2011, we got 12.9% in | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
the first, 13% in the second. worse than the 1997 general | :56:17. | :56:24. | |
election. As I say, when I took over, we wanted to build for the | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
future to change the face of the Scottish Conservatives. A third of | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
our councillors elected had never been involved in councils before. We | :56:33. | :56:43. | |
are bringing in new people, new candidates for future elections. | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
There is a lot of structural reform. I don't see any difference on the | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
ground. You have got no MPs in 1997. Since then, you have added one. In | :56:55. | :57:04. | |
other words, in 15 years, you have added one MP. Leading Tory | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
strategists here say you are only targeting three seats at the next | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
election in Scotland for Westminster and you have hopes of winning only | :57:11. | :57:20. | |
two. You have gone from zero, 21, Tattoo by 2015. At this rate you | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
will end up with an overall majority in Scotland by 21-80. | :57:26. | :57:34. | |
Correction-macro 2180. There hasn't been a UK general | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
election since I took over. We are laying the groundwork. How many | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
seats? I want to win as many as I possibly can. I have worked that one | :57:45. | :57:55. | |
out. We need to see what happens in the referendum, in terms of bringing | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
forward new faces in the party to fight the election for us, and to | :57:59. | :58:07. | |
bring this blog -- policy platform. So we have a party which is fit to | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
fight. Do you think you will face a | :58:12. | :58:19. | |
leadership challenge? That is up for someone else. I am the first given a | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
mandate by the members of our party, one member, one vote. A | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
lively leadership election. The people of my party wanted me to be | :58:29. | :58:37. | |
here. We are confident in the future. | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
Thank you for joining us. That's all for today. Thanks to our | :58:40. | :58:44. |