Browse content similar to 19/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Politics. Just when you thought banker bashing was passe, the | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
banking commission bashes the bankers all over again. Well, it | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
says it doesn't, but it sort of looks like it. The parliamentary | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
commission, which was set up by George Osborne, says banking bosses | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
should face inprisonment if their decisions force more bail-outs. The | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
commission also recommends reforming the bonus system, and says the | :01:01. | :01:11. | |
:01:11. | :01:12. | ||
culture's too masculine! Who would have thought that? ! Will bankers | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
now go to more accommodating climes? Would you like to co-sponsor a bill | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
that's going through the House of Commons? Now's your chance. It's | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
about Europe, and we'll be explaining how a little later. | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
Doctor and writer Ben Goldacre will be here explaining why the law | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
:01:33. | :01:34. | ||
governing drugs trials needs to be changed. Piles and piles of vitally | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
important medical trial results are being casually withheld from | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
doctors, researchers and patients. We have known about this for | :01:42. | :01:51. | |
And we'll be asking, have you ever done anything truly embarrasing at | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
:02:01. | :02:10. | ||
is embarrassing enough. Yes, all that and more coming up in | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
the next 90 minutes. And joining me for the duration we have, back by | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
popular demand, two fashion icons. Conservative Party chairman, Grant | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Shapps, and from Labour, the Shadow health minister Liz Kendall. Yes, | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
unlike Boris, who took to the catwalk yesterday to promote the | :02:21. | :02:31. | |
:02:31. | :02:34. | ||
London suit, these two fine chairman of England's regulator said | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
that his association was not fit for purpose when it came to hospital | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
inspections and it is still not up to standard. A new report suggests | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
that CQC might have deliberately covered up knowledge of its own | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
failings in 2010 following a series of deaths of newborn babies at | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
Furness General Hospital in Cumbria. Andy Burnham, this happened under | :02:59. | :03:07. | |
Labour? The period in question goes from 2008 to 2012 so, partly, but it | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
also relates to this government's time in office. Hospital regulation | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
was not good enough, we saw through the process in mid-stats. I have put | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
in play measures to improve it. But both sides will all be families in | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
question answerer is, and I will fully commit our site to getting | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
them. The more time goes on, the more we find out horrific things are | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
happening in our health service. health service is a complicated | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
complicated business. Things are happening every day, and sadly | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
sometimes things go wrong. should not be killing people. | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Goodness me, no. Sometimes the NHS is not good at facing up to | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
failings. It likes to pull down the shutters and push people away. I | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
think this is what happened to some of the families in Morecambe. It is | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
not acceptable. What is unforgivable is that weather have been failings, | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
any attempt to cover up those failings. -- where there have been | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
failings. What will shock people will be the instruction to delete an | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
internal report in March 2012, which raises a whole host of questions | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
about this regulator and its relationship with the Department of | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
health. If you have a statutory duty to look after the care of people, | :04:35. | :04:43. | |
which I assume was the job of this commission, if not only do you not | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
do that but you then destroy the fact that you had failed to do it, | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
surely that is worthy of a criminal charge? These are the most serious | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
matters. I agree with you. You have to look at the context in which they | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
deleted report, the context of an ongoing public enquiry, the context | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
of measures that I had put in place to ensure much more in-depth | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
examination of hospitals. You may remember this, I was in the post | :05:10. | :05:20. | |
when there was a problem at Basildon, and I asked the CQC to | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
assure us about the safety of all hospitals, to flush out further | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
problems. It is in the context of this government saying it puts a | :05:25. | :05:34. | |
high creamy on transparency, it is even more shocking. Shouldn't there | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
be criminal charges for those responsible for the cover-up? A | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
president of the United States lost his job because of a cover-up, | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
surely they should go to jail if found guilty? If there has been a | :05:47. | :05:56. | |
criminal offence. It sounds to me like the worst kind of... Will the | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
government pursue criminal charges? The authorities have to do that, but | :06:00. | :06:07. | |
we put in place the steps to expose it. Andy is right, transparency is | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
the way to deal with this. People need to know what is going on in the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
health service. It is a word that all you politicians bandy about, | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
people do not know what it means because it is likes is still above | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
-- sustainable, it is a Westminster village buzzword. Over 1000 people | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
died in Mid-Staffs, and in this Cumbrian hospital, people at their | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
most vulnerable, pregnant women and babies, died because of this. I | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
think we are -- I think we are looking for more than transparency. | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
I agree with you, sustainability is really confusing, what do people | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
mean whether something is sustainable or not? Transparency is | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
very simple. You can see what is going on. The reason why things are | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
coming out now, we are finding out about what happened with the CQC | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
cover-up, and the reason that Mid-Staffs came up is through | :07:02. | :07:10. | |
transparency. We said, there must be a full and thorough investigation. | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Over what happened, for example, at Mid-Staffs. We commissioned a report | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
to make it entirely transparent. Transparency has a real meaning, I | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
am pleased that Andy and I agree that it is the way forward. | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
Mid-Staffs was, in part, the result of pursuing a policy focusing on one | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
specific thing, targets beyond care. It is important that care is always | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
number one. If you can be faced with criminal charges for fiddling your | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
expenses, as some MPs and Lords have, surely you should face | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
criminal charges for not only failing to protect the most | :07:50. | :07:59. | |
vulnerable people in society but then covering up the fact? Cover-ups | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
are the most serious aspect. Robert Francis would say that. It is | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
wanting to make a mistake, people are human and mistakes made, but it | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
is different when you say, I am going to cover up those failings. | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
Transparency is a process. I think it began with the Freedom of | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
Information Act. Lots of the institutions of this country have, | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
through time, been beginning to feel the full force. That is a good | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
thing. The Freedom of Information Act is doing its job. Dare I say it, | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
the BBC has felt some of that with historic issues around the abuse of | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
young people. All organisations have to go through this process. The NHS | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
is different. I have to say, this was deleted in the month that the | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
government was withholding the National risk register into the NHS. | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
I think the government needs to stand by what it says on | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
transparency. You are opening a new can of worms, but there needs to be | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
policy development where you can develop policies. Transparency is | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
meaningful. I have a feeling this will, but PMQ 's. | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
Now, to something slightly different. | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
Now, do you want to be my EU facebook app friend? Confused? Don't | :09:14. | :09:24. | |
:09:24. | :09:31. | ||
Once to get more involved in the legislative process with your PC, | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
smartphone or pub -- tablet? Now you can, if thanks to the tech friendly | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
Conservatives. This is James Wharton MP, who is introducing legislation | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
to pave the way for a referendum on our membership of the EU in 2014. He | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
is doing it himself in the form of a private member's bill, because the | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
Lib Dems will not let the government do it. It is being discussed in | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
Parliament on the 5th of July. The Tory party is running an online | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
campaign to support it, called Let Britain Decide. They have launched | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
an app on Facebook where you can co-sponsor the bill. You type in | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
your name and e-mail address, your postcode, then the Conservative | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
Party and all your friends will know that you are in favour. Some say | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
this has no impact on the legislative process, because the | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
idea of the public co-sponsoring a bill is meaningless in parliamentary | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
terms. But the Tories say they will probably publish a list of people | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
who have signed up to show the depth of feeling. And it allows us to | :10:41. | :10:51. | |
:10:51. | :10:51. | ||
deploy lots of puns, such as they are apping the anti-, and the Lib | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
Dems will be app-alled. Adam Flemming there, and the UKIP | :10:57. | :11:07. | |
:11:07. | :11:13. | ||
MEP Gerard Batten is here. increase pressure on Labour and Lib | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
Dem MPs who, for whatever reason, don't want to give the British | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
people a say, and in-out referendum on Europe. They have got the | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
opportunity to show they are on the side of the British people. | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
Visibility to put your name to the bill means that they will be able to | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
put pressure on their labour MP or the Dem MP to turn up at the | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
comments and support the legislation. That way, we will get a | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
referendum by the end of 2017, then we can decide on our relationship | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
with Europe. We have looked on the Facebook page, are these the sorts | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
of people and pressure you want on the opposition? Jules says that 2017 | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
is far too long, also you will not win the next election. Matthew says | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
it is a cowardly idea to call a referendum, since many of the | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
population do not have an understanding on the occasions. | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
Julian says, the idea that we can negotiate anything is a fantasy. | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
Good luck trying. Meanwhile, I shall be voting UKIP. Lou then you will | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
get Labour, and not a referendum. The sensible thing is to vote for | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
the pub -- party offering a referendum. It is controversial, I | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
don't hide that. But to anyone who says you can't renegotiate anything | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
with Europe, that is not true. We vetoed a treaty under David | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
Cameron, we pulled out of an EU mechanism which would help fund | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
other countries in the UU -- in the euro. We have reduced the budget on | :12:50. | :12:59. | |
Europe. The re-negation comes over a period of time. App-alled the | :12:59. | :13:09. | |
:13:09. | :13:11. | ||
renegotiation. We have two -- we have to win the next election. | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
will put pressure on Labour and make it look like you are on the wrong | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
side? It is a political stunt, a Westminster game. That is what this | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
is all about. Surely, national interest should come first? I am a | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
humble Northerner but I have a few friends in Europe, not as many as | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
Peter Mandelson, but a view. They don't interpret this as Let Britain | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
Decide, they interpreted as, the Tory party wants out of Europe. At | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
the time when growth and jobs are the main and important thing, how | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
can it make sense to send a signal to our European partners that we | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
want to get out? It is economic suicide. The national interest must | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
come first. That is why they have got this wrong. But some Labour MPs | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
support this. I spoke to one last night, she will vote on the 5th of | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
July, she is not the only one. We are inviting them to co-sponsor the | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
bill. Are they playing tricks, or do they actually believe, like most | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
British people, that it is time to have a say on Europe? If the powers | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
are renegotiated, a time will come when we have to have a say, but I | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
don't think British business wants to see this kind of politicking. In | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
my constituents is jobs and investment. I'd want a message being | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
sent out from this country that we are pulling up the drawbridge, | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
getting out, not interested in our main market any more. That is the | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
wrong signal to send, you are putting politics above the national | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
interest. It is a desperate PR stunt on the part of the government, | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
Labour don't know how to react, because they do not want a | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
referendum. If David Cameron was genuine about having a referendum, | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
he could have said... It wasn't in the Queen's Speech, there was an | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
amendment which was defeated. If he was genuine he could say, I will | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
introduce a government bill for a referendum on the EU. If I can't get | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
it through Parliament, I tried and I failed. You give me a big majority | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
in 2015 and I will do it. He won't do that, he is not genuine about | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
having a referendum. Still less about giving the British people a | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
genuine... He doesn't need a majority, he has the coalition | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
government, and if the Lib Dems stopped him even introducing a bill, | :15:44. | :15:53. | |
look a much stronger he would seem. In a coalition government, to | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
introduce a bill to parliament, you have to have the agreement of both | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
sides. If the Lib Dems did not give that agreement, he would be in a | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
much stronger position, but he is not prepared to do that, because he | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
is not genuine. This was not in the manifesto, and it is great to be | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
able to help the Lib Dems. He is dancing to the UKIP June, it is a | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
product of a weak Prime Minister, that he has two go with his | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
backbenchers. It is sad that the coalition has descended to this. | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
do not want to let the public have their say. At the right time. | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
there is a powers, as I said. When there is a change, we then say to | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
the British people, at that appropriate moment, not in the midst | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
of an economic crisis, when there is no growth, when we want to build our | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
business with Europe, why send the message to them all that we want | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
out? Unbelievable! It is a mechanism which would have cost billions of | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
pounds, in the last, dying days of your government... Supporting the | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Eurozone countries... We made sure that that was abolished. We can | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
renegotiate that and we can certainly renegotiate powers. | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
powers can be renegotiated, it is all dishonest. The question is, do | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
we want to be part of this United States of Europe or not? None of the | :17:21. | :17:31. | |
:17:31. | :17:32. | ||
parties want to give the people that question. If Andrew Tyrie gets his | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
way, then those guilty of so-called reckless misconduct in future, in | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
the banking, could spend some time at Her Majesty is pleasure. Here is | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
JoCo to explain. The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards was | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
set up George Osborne last year in the wake of a number of scandals in | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
the industry. Its chair, Andrew Tyrie, once again seems to be in the | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
mood for a spot of some banker bashing, even though he says he is | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
not. The 571 page report has a number of suggestions, including the | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
idea of sending senior bankers guilty of reckless misconduct to | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
jail. Mr Tyrie and his chums on the commission also recommend that | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
bonuses for bankers should be deferred for up to ten years. It | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
will not be popular with bankers, the idea is to get away from the | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
short-term thinking blamed by many for the crash in 2008. The MPs and | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
peers, including none other than the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
Welby, also call on George Osborne to consider breaking up a Royal Bank | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
of Scotland before putting it back into private hands. The report also | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
recommends employing more women on the trading floor, on the grounds | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
that it could reduce risk. Finally, there are proposals to increase | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
competition amongst high-street banks, by making bank account | :18:47. | :18:57. | |
:18:57. | :19:01. | ||
numbers portable in the same way as mobile phone numbers. Labour's | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
former City Minister John Joins Us Now, Dressed In His G8 Gear. If This | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
Report Had Been Implemented in 2008, how many bankers would have gone to | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
jail? Very difficult to tell. The commission has done a very good job, | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
it is a very scholarly piece of work, led by Andrew Tyrie. But | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
implementation is going to be challenging, particularly the | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
assumptions about the obligations regarding the law and direct does, | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
and, to get a convertible definition of a failure of management I think | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
is going to be quite a challenge. There are many other things in the | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
report which can be lamented, and hopefully the Government will do so | :19:45. | :19:54. | |
fairly rapidly this idea of reckless misconduct, which could carry | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
criminal charges if found guilty, I can see lawyers getting stuck into | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
that definition. It could make people wary of becoming bankers in | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
the first place. When Fred Goodwin, as head of RBS, was borrowing a shed | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
load of money to buy ABM Umbro, was that reckless misconduct? That will | :20:16. | :20:22. | |
be a matter for the board and owners of the business to decide. Remember, | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
the institutional investors, who get off scot-free in Mr Tyrie's report, | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
which I think is a major in his thinking, they have not behaved like | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
owners. They supported that particular acquisition. Indeed, some | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
of the criticisms levelled by Mr Tyrie at the Government, | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
interference in the management of RBS, giving the power to the | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
regulators to control leverage, not pushing hard enough on capping | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
bonuses, these are big, critical comments about the Government from | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
Mr Tyrie. Also, I think they could be focused on the shareholders - why | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
are you not pressing for safer, more responsible banks? But when you look | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
at some of what we now think, maybe not in their criminal sense, but in | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
a subjective sense, was reckless misconduct by bankers, we find that | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
in this reckless misconduct, they were being egged on by politicians. | :21:19. | :21:29. | |
:21:29. | :21:32. | ||
I think they may well have been they were, we know that. What we do know | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
is that there was a very permissive environment, indeed, John Redwood | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
saying that in 2004, banking regulation was far too tight, we | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
needed to relax it, and there was a general consensus that a light touch | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
was right. In hindsight, that was badly wrong, and Mr Tyrie quite | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
rightly says, we need tougher, more nose to the ground regulation, we | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
need stronger boards of direct has, and we need more powerful sanctions | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
against miscreants, and we need to be able to put up a finger against | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
the culprits. There is not a single person in this country serving a | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
jail sentence as a result of the banking crisis. There are people in | :22:13. | :22:23. | |
:22:23. | :22:27. | ||
Europe and America. Under Labour, the fact is that there was a pact | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
between Gordon Brown and the bankers, which allowed the bankers | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
to get a shed load of money for themselves, and he got his cut in | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
the form of taxes for his public spending, and the regulation was | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
therefore kept very light touch. That's why we have ended up in this | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
situation - it suited Mr Brown at the time, it suited the bankers, it | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
has all come back and bit us very hard. I do not accept that at all, | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
that there was a pact. We want a strong city of London, that is | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
clearly in the national interest, but Gordon Brown was under pressure | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
to relax it further, and he didn't. It is not possible to say that it | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
was whatever they wanted. Everybody has had to reassess after what | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
happened in the latter part of the last decade. The keyword is | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
accountability. We spoke about it in the NHS. I think the same applies | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
here - is there a accountability for people 's actions Kas when I came | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
out of university and I have some friends who went to the city, there | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
was the culture that this was not the real world, numbers could move | :23:31. | :23:37. | |
on a screen, that is how they worked, it was a culture of excess. | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
I think the recommendation from the committee is a good one, because it | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
will bring accountability. It is an all-party committee, which is a | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
strength. I would say, let's have the Government now saying, let's put | :23:49. | :23:56. | |
this into the financial services bill. You said the city of London | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
was very important to this nation, but if you are going to have laws of | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
reckless misconduct, which is very vague, and tell bankers they will | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
have to wait ten years for their bonuses, why would they not just | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
leave and go to Wall Street? Maybe they will, but are you saying we | :24:13. | :24:19. | |
want reckless behaviour Kas you have not been able to define reckless | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
misconduct. It has to be defined carefully, we have had senior | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
parliamentarians looking at this. They have all agreed that | :24:28. | :24:35. | |
recklessness is not acceptable. The question is, how does it then result | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
in chronological judges? In recent years, it has been revealed that | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
British banks have been money-laundering the money of the | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
drug cartels in Mexico, helping to finance the breaking of sanctions | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
against Iran and fiddling the LIBOR rate, one of the key global interest | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
rates, and yet no one has gone to jail for things that I think anybody | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
listening to this would think, isn't that illegal Kas is that not | :25:01. | :25:11. | |
:25:11. | :25:13. | ||
criminal charges? In fact, the chairman of HSBC, which was involved | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
in the money-laundering, terrorist financing, on a scale which led to | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
the loss of human life, let's not diminish this, this is not about | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
fixing an interest rate, this led to probably hundreds of people losing | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
their lives, the chairman of HSBC is a member of David Cameron's | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
government, one of the advisers to George Osborne on banking reform. | :25:36. | :25:45. | |
Just remind me who gave Fred Goodwin his knighthood? The Queen.I did not | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
go Gordon Brown was the Queen. You get my point, you are all in it up | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
to here. I know it is hard for you to tell me, but can you just give us | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
an indication of when we get the Government's official response, will | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
the Chancellor give us an indication tonight about what parts of this you | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
are going to implement, and what parts you are not? The report is out | :26:07. | :26:15. | |
today, and we have only had 24 hours notice. I have only asked you for | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
the timescale. It will be pretty rapid. We have got a pretty good | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
bill going through the house. there could be changes to that? | :26:26. | :26:35. | |
sounds encouraging, let's put this into place. Absolutely, we like a | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
lot on that note, we will move on. Lord Myners, thank you for coming | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
in. It has been brought to my attention that people are coming up | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
with all manner of excuses not to pay their TV licence fee. It is | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
usually something to do with Daily Politics. One householder told the | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
authorities that she only used the TV, the light from her TV set, for | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
reading. Another claimed that she had a corgi related to one of the | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
Queen's dogs, and thought she must be exempt. Well, not only does your | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
hard earned dosh bring you the best political programme that money can | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
buy, but it gets you the chance to win this - yes, The Daily Politics | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
Mug, lovingly handcrafted by BBC elves, it can be beamed to your | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
home, and all you have to do is listen to JoCo's transmission. | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
will remind you of how to enter in a minute, but let's see if you can | :27:33. | :27:43. | |
:27:43. | :28:00. | ||
top must bear the responsibility. the time you have got a couple of | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
dozen photographers around you, it is very difficult to meet anybody at | :28:03. | :28:13. | |
:28:13. | :28:19. | ||
all. Two explosions have gone off within seconds of each other... | :28:19. | :28:27. | |
# What becomes of the broken hearted? # | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
# Is this my beginning? Or is this the end... # | :28:34. | :28:44. | |
:28:44. | :28:57. | ||
Their are rationing for themselves, winning a Daily Politics Mug, send | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
your answer to our special e-mail address, and you can see the full | :29:03. | :29:11. | |
terms and conditions on our website, bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
Coming up to midday, let's take a look at big then. It is a great, | :29:16. | :29:24. | |
muddy, sticky day in London. Nick Robinson is already here. Briefly, | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
Nigel Robinson, the Deputy Speaker - sorry, Nigel Evans, the deputy | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
speaker of the House of Commons, now arrested on three other charges... | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
Yes, people will remember there was real shock in politics, Nigel Evans | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
is a popular character on all sides of the House of Commons. He was | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
arrested in May on suspicion of rape and sexual assault, and he has | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
reported for bail today in Lancashire, and the Lancashire | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
Constabulary have subsequently said that he has been arrested on three | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
further offences of indecent assault. It is the sort of thing | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
that will go round Westminster, and bringing real surprise, shock and | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
sadness. What has GCHQ told you Mr Miller band will go on today? | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
only! That would save me being a journalist! I do not think it takes | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
a genius to work out that the subject you have just been talking | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
about, banking, is an obvious territory. I think the tone will be | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
interesting - does he invite him to agree, or does he challenge Kas | :30:28. | :30:38. | |
:30:38. | :31:02. | ||
Livingston, for the past few years, the chief executive of BT, will take | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
on this vital role. I believe he will bring huge talent to a vital | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
national effort. There are many pupils an excellent | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
schools benefiting from outstanding teaching and inspirational teachers, | :31:17. | :31:27. | |
:31:27. | :31:27. | ||
not all of whom have been to teacher training college, necessarily. | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
Thereon many teachers in our schools who have not been through the formal | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
process. Some teachers have been banned from such schools. As I have | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
been busy, -- although I have been busy, I have looked carefully at | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
this policy, and I know there people who teach, including those on the | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
benches of the party opposite, the honourable member for Stoke-on-Trent | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
Central, a renowned historian, teachers in his local compounds of | :31:56. | :32:03. | |
schools. He will be banned. There is the former member for South who will | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
that who also enjoys doing that. I think this policy is another example | :32:08. | :32:18. | |
:32:18. | :32:21. | ||
of brotherly love. Following the Parliamentary commission on, can he | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
confirmed that he supports its recommendations on bonuses and | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
criminal penalties and that he would use the banking bill to do this? | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
support both of those. We need to take the time to read this excellent | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
report, and I commend the member for gesture Dutchman Richard Chester for | :32:39. | :32:48. | |
the excellent job he has done. Making sure that banks who are in | :32:48. | :32:58. | |
:32:58. | :32:59. | ||
receipt of taxpayers money, that we can claw back bonuses, I say yes. | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
am glad he supports the proposal on criminal penalties, but will he | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
confirm the important issue that the government will put down the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
amendment to the banking Bill currently going through Parliament, | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
to make sure it gets on the statute book as soon as the? We will be | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
using that Bill to take these important steps. It is important | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
that we have that opportunity. There should be a Parliamentary enquiry | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
done rapidly, rather than a public enquiry that he supported. If we had | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
done that, we would just about be getting going with the inquiry. | :33:34. | :33:43. | |
Instead, we had a good enquiry and we had strong legislation, too. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
If the government doesn't put down the amendments on criminal | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
penalties, we will, in the Banking Bill, and we will make sure that | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
they happen. The Prime Minister praises the Parliamentary commission | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
on, but let's turn to one of its recommendations from last year 's | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
report. It said that it should legislate for a general power to | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
break up the banks, breaking up high risk casino banking from high street | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
banks. The commission think it is right, but the government is so far | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
refusing to implement... The part-time Chancellor is trying to | :34:17. | :34:26. | |
advise the Prime Minister. We think it is right, the commission think it | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
is right, but the government has so far refused to implement that | :34:30. | :34:37. | |
recommendation. Why isn't the government doing it? I would rather | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
listen to my Chancellor than listen to his neighbour, the Shadow | :34:40. | :34:47. | |
Chancellor. We remember his advice. 125% mortgages from Northern Rock, | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
that is fine. A knighthood for Fred Goodwin, that is fine. The biggest | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
banking bust in British history, that is fine. He was the City | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
Minister when all of this went wrong. This government is clearing | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
up the mess. We wouldn't have these results without this excellent | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
enquiry commissioned by this government, we would not be able to | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
legislate without the excellent Banking Bill provided by this | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
government. In terms of his question, we are putting a ring | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
fence around retail banks, something that in 13 years of a retail | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
government, although they were both in the Treasury, they never got | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
round to it. We are not going to take lectures | :35:29. | :35:39. | |
:35:39. | :35:41. | ||
from the guy who was the advisor on Black Wednesday in 1992. And he had | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
no answer to the question about retail and investment banking. Maybe | :35:45. | :35:55. | |
:35:55. | :35:55. | ||
he can do better on this issue. On the issue of bonuses and the banks, | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
Mr Speaker, last week's ONS figures showed that bonuses in business and | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
financial services this April was 64% higher than a year ago. Why does | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
the Prime Minister think that is? Bank bonuses are about a fifth of | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
what they were when he was sitting in the Treasury. They have been | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
going down, not up. If he wants to discuss this issue of banking, | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
perhaps he would reflect on the fact that the other City Minister that | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
Labour had in their time of office, Lord Myners, said this today dashed | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
the government of which I was a member certainly has to take some | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
culpability for the fact that the regulatory oversight of the banks | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
was not as effective as it should be. He says, to do otherwise would | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
be to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate. Perhaps the next | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
time he gets to that despatch box, he will apologise for the mess they | :36:51. | :37:00. | |
made? Here's asking questions and preparing for opposition. Let's talk | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
about what people were saying in 2008. We all remember the speeches, | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
don't we, Mr Speaker? A Conservative economic strategy. David Cameron, I | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
quote, as a free marketeer by conviction, it will not surprise you | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
to hear me say that a significant part of the problems of the last | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
decade has been too much regulation. There you have it, Mr | :37:28. | :37:38. | |
Speaker. He was wanting less regulation of the cap back row city. | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
-- less regulation of the City. Bonuses are up 64% in the City in | :37:44. | :37:52. | |
April. That is because he has cut the top rate of income tax from 50p | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
to 45p. People took their bonuses in April and got a massive tax cut as a | :37:57. | :38:04. | |
result. When the Prime Minister gets up to respond, will he confirm that | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
64% figure and that people are getting a massive tax cut as a | :38:07. | :38:17. | |
:38:17. | :38:19. | ||
result of his decision? In 2012/13, City bonuses will be 85% lower than | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
in 2007 and eight, when those two were advising or working in the last | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
government, with the responsibility for regulating the City. It doesn't | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
matter what he says, he cannot get over the fact that they presided | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
over the boom and bust, the collapse of the banks and the failure to | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
regulate. We remember what they said in 2008 - no more boom and bust. | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
They said a golden age for the City. They cannot hide their dreadful | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
record and they ought to start with an apology. The whole House will | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
have noticed, he cannot deny the figures I've doubt. He doesn't even | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
know the facts. Bonuses are up, so that people can take advantage of | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
his massive tax cut. For all his tough talk, the reality is that he | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
is dragging his feet on banking reform. Business lending is still | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
falling, bonuses are rising and ordinary families are suffering. He | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
is giving a massive tax cut to the bankers. Just another display of | :39:25. | :39:33. | |
extraordinary weakness. They had 13 years to sort out this problem, they | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
did absolutely nothing. It is this government that has introduced the | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
banking Bill, that has introduced the ring fence, that has put the | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
Bank of England in charge of regulating credit in our economy. | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
Instead, what we ought to be getting from him is an apology and a thank | :39:49. | :39:59. | |
:39:59. | :40:15. | ||
I commend him for being the first Prime Minister ever to commit to a | :40:15. | :40:22. | |
referendum on Europe, and to leading a government which has tackled | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
welfare dependency, reduced immigration and brought in | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
academies, therefore showing that one can be conservative, popular and | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
write all the same time. Can I thank my honourable friend for his | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
question? And on behalf of everyone in the house, can I congratulate him | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
on his richly deserved night Woodcrest -- richly deserve | :40:43. | :40:50. | |
knighthood? He served in this house for many decades and served in the | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
vital role of overseeing the Public Accounts Committee, which does such | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
important work. I am grateful for what he says about the referendum | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
and would urge all colleagues to come to the House on July the 5th | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
and vote for this bill. Is the Prime Minister proud of the | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
fact that, on his watch, 300,000 more children have been pushed into | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
absolute poverty? I am proud that we have protected the poorest in our | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
country by increasing child tax credit. The most important thing we | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
can do to tackle poverty is to get more people into work. There are now | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
more people in work in our country than at any time in our history, and | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
in his own area in the West Midlands, the number of people | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
employed is up 66,000 since the election. It is worth remembering | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
the last government's record, because even during the boom years, | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
private sector employment in the West Midlands went down. | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
I am sure he will want to join every member of the house in wishing all | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
British players the best of luck for Wimbledon, which starts on Monday. | :42:00. | :42:08. | |
Does he back the LTA's Schools Tennis Programme, which is in some | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
schools in my constituency, to help find as a future home-grown and home | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
trained champion? He is absolutely right to raise this. Let's | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
congratulate Andy Murray for his excellent victory at the weekend at | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
Queen 's club, and wish him and other British players well for the | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
tenements. We should commend the LTA for trying to make tennis much more | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
of a mass participation club. I see it in the primary school my children | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
go to, where more tennis is being taught and played. It has a long way | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
to go, and the lawn tennis Association has two satisfy sport | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
England and all of the other funding bodies that they are making it a | :42:51. | :42:58. | |
mass participation sport. When, according to the Sunday Times, just | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
1000 of our richest citizens have increased their wealth since the | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
financial crash by �119 billion, while everyone else, on average, has | :43:06. | :43:14. | |
been forced to take a real terms cut in income, isn't his policy of | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
enriching the perpetrators and punishing the victims are very | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
opposite of a one nation Britain? The richest in our country will pay | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
a higher percentage of income tax under this government to ban the | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
last. He sat in that government with the opportunity to do something | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
about it, but all the time he was a minister, the top tax rate was lower | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
than it will be under this government. | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
Does he agree with me that if a community is obliged to take a | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
strategic piece of infrastructure, that there should be agreements for | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
payment and compensation for any blight caused by a nationally | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
important piece of infrastructure like a rail freight interchange? | :44:01. | :44:09. | |
That is why section 106 agreement exist. We need to keep this area | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
under observation about how we will handle fracking and shale gas. I | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
think we will need a simpler mechanism to show that company -- to | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
ensure that communities feel the benefit. | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
On Monday the Milburn report showed that the proportion of students from | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
state schools at the elite Russell Group universities is less than a | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
decade ago. Another report is secretly considering lifting | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
interest rates on previous graduate loans. After �9,000 tuition fees, | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
does he think that another reach of faith like this is more likely to | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
encourage students from work -- less wealthy backgrounds to apply to | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
university, or to discourage them? The number of children from | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
disadvantaged backgrounds going to university is higher than ever, that | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
is a good step forward. If we wanted their children from disadvantaged | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
backgrounds into universities, we should be supporting the academies | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
programme and free schools. We saw in Labour putts-macro announcement | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
that they now support free schools. But then they went on to say that | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
they would not allow any more of them. And, quite extraordinary, they | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
said this - what we will have is a new academies programme, like parent | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
led academies, teacher led academies, such as a particular | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
school in east London. They want more schools like that. The Shadow | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
Education Secretary is nodding. But that school is a free school. What a | :45:41. | :45:51. | |
:45:51. | :45:52. | ||
complete shambles. Can I ask the Prime Minister what discussions he | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
has held with colleagues in Devra regarding the Environment Agency | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
recognising the value of land, and the need to protect farmland in my | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
constituency from flooding? I do have conversations about this issue | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
with the Secretary of State for farming and food and rural affairs. | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
As I announced in the House last week, he will soon be bringing | :46:15. | :46:23. | |
forward the proposal to make sure that the insurance scheme regarding | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
the danger of flooding is renewed. We also need to protect farmland, | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
not least because with global population is rising, the demand for | :46:32. | :46:42. | |
:46:42. | :46:51. | ||
food production will have to increase. In my constituency, one in | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
three is living in poverty, compared to one in ten in his constituency - | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
what is he going to do about it? I have to say to the honourable | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
gentleman, the problem with the last government's legacy is, because you | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
left a massive debt burden and a massive deficit, this government had | :47:06. | :47:15. | |
to take action to deal with it. As I said, the best way... We will | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
concentrate on the policies of the Government, not... Order. Nothing | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
further required. We will move on. Whatever the long-term benefits of | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
High Speed Rail Bill the project is already causing serious worry for | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
tens of thousands of homeowners along the route. Will my Right | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
Honourable Friend give urgent attention and consideration to the | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
possibility of introducing a property bond to remove that blight? | :47:43. | :47:52. | |
I know My Honourable Friend is concerned about this issue, and I | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
know that it is right that he stands up for his constituents, and other | :47:59. | :48:05. | |
MPs have discussed this with me. First of all, I think we should | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
remain committed to HS2, because it will connect our cities and | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
communities and bring many benefits, particularly, I believe, to the | :48:09. | :48:10. | |
north of England. But I think we should look at the compensation | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
schemes available, and we are listening to the idea of the | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
property bond. In his state meant following the appalling murder of a | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
month ago, the Prime Minister announced the setting up of the | :48:19. | :48:28. | |
Government the Prime Minister -- the Government's task force on extremism | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
in our communities. In Woolwich, our diverse communities have been | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
working hard to do just that. Can the Prime Minister House what | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
progress has been made, and specifically what new ways he | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
envisages emerging to support communities such as ours? First of | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
all, can I commend the Right Honourable Gentleman for the action | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
he has taken in his own community. When I visited Woolwich I saw how | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
strongly that community has come together to decry what happened and | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
to build a stronger future. The task force has met and the ideas have | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
been commissioned. One particular idea we are looking at is something | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
I heard while I was with him in Woolwich, which is, where | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
communities want to come together and try to drive extremist groups | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
out of particular mosques or Islamic centres, they often need help | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
including help with legal advice to do that. So, that is one specific | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
idea. But this task force should cover the whole waterfront from | :49:24. | :49:34. | |
:49:34. | :49:38. | ||
everything right across the community. Given the role of women | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
in the developing world, especially in the realm of sanitation, health, | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
business and all other matters affecting administration in other | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
countries, will my Right Honourable Friend take a positive interest in | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
my gender inequality bill, which is coming forward today, and will he | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
note that he was already supported by the very wide range of people? I | :50:04. | :50:11. | |
will study My Honourable Friend's bill closely. It is not the bill | :50:11. | :50:21. | |
that everybody might expect... more about real cash's bill. It is | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
not necessarily the bill which we would all expecting to produce, but | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
I think it is an excellent idea, I'm co-chairing the high-level panel at | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
the UN about the future of development, I wanted to make sure | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
that gender equality was put right up there in the replacement for the | :50:35. | :50:40. | |
millennium development goals, and it is there, and I think his bill might | :50:40. | :50:46. | |
be able to provide some extra ideas to bring this to life. In 2010, the | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
Prime Minister proudly stated, and I quote, we actually made sure that | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
neither the budget nor the spending round would result in any increase | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
in child poverty. But in his first full year as Prime Minister, the | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
number of children in absolute poverty rose by 300000 and is still | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
rising. Will he now admits that he was wrong and his policies are to | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
blame? We did make a specific decision in the spending round to | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
increase child tax credit for the poorest families in our country. But | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
we had an inheritance from the past garment of such appalling levels of | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
debt that it has been painful to deal with. But let me repeat the | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
best way to get people out of poverty is to see employment grow, | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
and in the north-west, the part of the country she represents, | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
employment has risen by 6000 this quarter. It has 50,000 since the | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
election, and unemployment is now 20,000 since the election. Those are | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
all life chances, jobs and chances to get on, that people did not have | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
under the last Labour government. Could I welcome my Right Honourable | :51:53. | :52:00. | |
Friend's leadership of the G8 in helping to prevent the horrors of | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
Syria turning into a regional humanitarian catastrophe? And could | :52:04. | :52:12. | |
I urge him to pursue further the support for Lebanon and Jordan, two | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
very fragile neighbouring states, and especially urge him to go | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
further with the support we are providing for the leather knee 's | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
army, which is the only organisation in the area which could be a | :52:24. | :52:33. | |
potentially stabilising force. -- Lebanese army. Could I thank him for | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
that. We did make some progress on Syria, the tequila Lee in terms of | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
humanitarian aid, where $1.5 billion extra was pledged for what is now | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
becoming one of the worst Unitarian crises we have seen in recent years. | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
He is absolutely right, we need to support the neighbouring states, and | :52:51. | :53:01. | |
:53:01. | :53:02. | ||
we should support the Lebanese army. In response to My Honourable | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
Friend, on several occasions, the Prime Minister has said that the | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
best way of tackling poverty is to get people into work. But would he | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
explain this - why is it that two thirds of the children in poverty | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
today come from families where there is at least one adult in work, and | :53:19. | :53:26. | |
why is that figure rising? The point I would make to the Jan Short is | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
that work is the best answer for taking people out of poverty. -- to | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
the Honourable Gentleman. Yes, of course we should continue paying | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
child benefit, which we do, and tax credits. Indeed, one decision we | :53:39. | :53:42. | |
made when we came into office was to stop the nonsense of tax credits | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
going to people, including members of this House of Commons, earning | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
�50,000 or more a year. We are focusing their help on the people | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
who need it most. Yes, in the West Midlands, we have seen an extra | :53:55. | :54:05. | |
66,000 people in work. A few weeks ago, nine paediatricians wrote to me | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
in the code quality commission expressing serious safety concerns | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
regarding maternity services getting downgraded. Since then, their | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
managers have acted in an intimidating manner. Real the Prime | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
Minister ensure me that reprisals will not be made against these. | :54:21. | :54:29. | |
Does? -- against these doctors? As we have said before, there should | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
always be safeguards for people who whistleblower and tell the truth | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
about Robbins in the NHS. We have completely overhauled the CQC, and | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
the report out today proves that it was a totally dysfunctional | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
organisation that we inherited. In a few weeks, thousands of young people | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
across the country will be graduating from university, and | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
looking forward to getting their first step on the career ladder. | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
Unfortunately for many of them, the only option will be a long-term, | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
unpaid internship, which requires them to work for free. Will the | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
Prime Minister therefore make sure that the national minimum wage | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
regulations are vigorously enforced by HM RC to put an end to this | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
expectation of our young people? I think the Right Honourable Lady is | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
doing some really important work in this area, and it is an important | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
area to get right. We all know from our own experiences at some short | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
term internships, work experience, can be very valuable for picking | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
taking part. But on the other hand, what we should not have is the | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
employment of unpaid interns instead of workers to avoid the national | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
minimum wage. That is the balance we have to put right and I commend her | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
for the important work she is doing. The excellent children's heart unit | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
at Southampton General is the best in the country outside of London, | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
get the recent decision by the Secretary of State means more | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
uncertainty for patients and their families in my Eastleigh | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
constituency. What assurances can the Prime Minister give over the | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
future of this unit? What I would say to My Honourable Friend is that | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
I do not think the Secretary of State really had any choice but to | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
start this whole process of looking at safe and sustainable services, | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
including Southampton, which is twinned with the hospital which | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
serves my constituency. I understand people's frustration, but most | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
important is to make sure we get the decision right. The Government's own | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
research shows a link between the portrayal of women as sex objects in | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
the media and the greater acceptance of sexual harassment and violence | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
against women. That being the case, will he join me in trying to get our | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
own House in order, calling on the Parliamentary authorities to stop | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
the Sun newspaper being available on the Parliamentary estate, and will | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
he have a word with his friend Rupert Murdoch with it while he is | :56:58. | :57:07. | |
at it? I am grateful to the Honourable Lady, I am glad she got | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
her question asked, after the dazzling T-shirt she was wearing | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
last week failed to catch the Speaker's I. I think it is very | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
important that we should be able to read or newspapers on the | :57:17. | :57:24. | |
Parliamentary estate, including the Sun newspaper. I welcome the Prime | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
Minister's leadership, that, on getting the G8 to agree a deal on | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
tackling aggressive corporate tax avoidance. Will my Right Honourable | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
Friend confirmed that he will not be offering a corporate tax avoidance | :57:38. | :57:44. | |
service as does the party opposite? I think My Honourable Friend makes | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
an important point, which is that at the G8, we achieved real progress on | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
tax transparency, cracking down on tax evasion and aggressive tax | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
avoidance, but is it not a sad thing that while we were doing that, the | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
party opposite is still offering tax avoidance advice to its donors, and | :58:00. | :58:08. | |
they have not paid back the �700 of tax that they owe. Let me remind him | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
what he said Ash if everybody approaches their tax affairs like | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
some of these companies do, we would not have an education service, we | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
would not have a health system. So, he has got to put his hand in his | :58:20. | :58:27. | |
pocket and give the money back. Prime Minister, I wrote to you on | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
eight May and have not yet received a reply. Could I ask you now - have | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
you ever had any discussions with Lincoln Crosby about the standard | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
packaging of cigarettes or the minimum price of unit of alcohol, | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
yes or no? I can tell you that Lynton Crosby has never lobbied me | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
on anything. The only opinions that I am interested in our how we | :58:49. | :58:55. | |
destroy the credibility of the Labour Party. On which he has | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
considerable expertise, though I have to say he is not doing as good | :58:58. | :59:08. | |
:59:08. | :59:14. | ||
a job as the party opposite. successfully intervened in the case | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
of a newborn baby, who has now eventually been confirmed as the | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
daughter of a private who died on active service in Afghanistan. His | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
fiancee and family are in the gallery today. This whole situation, | :59:26. | :59:32. | |
Mr Speaker, would not have arisen if the MOD routinely kept samples of | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
DNA for those soldiers on active duty - are we making any progress on | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
this? My Honourable Friend makes an important point, and he is quite | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
right to have stood up for his constituents in the way that he did. | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
I would like to convene a meeting with MOD ministers, so that I can | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
get back to him with the very best answer about the action we can take | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
to stop this happening in the future. The number of families | :59:56. | :00:02. | |
living in temporary accommodation, homeless families, rose by 5000 in | :00:02. | :00:08. | |
the last year. Can the Prime Minister explain why? ? What we need | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
to do is to build more houses in our country, and that is exactly what | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
this government is doing. We are building more social houses and more | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
private houses, and we are reforming housing benefit, so we can better | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
use the money. The question now is for the party opposite. Base bend | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
weeks and weeks complaining about the removal of the spare room | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
subsidy. I do not know whether anybody else has noticed, they do | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
not ask questions about it any more. Could that possibly be because they | :00:37. | :00:47. | |
have not got a clue about whether they would restore it? With an | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
estimated �10 billion boost to our economy, does my Right Honourable | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
Friend agree that a free-trade agreement with the United States | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
represents a glittering prize for Britain and for Europe? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Honourable Friend is absolutely right. I think it is very good news | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
that this free-trade agreement has been launched at Lough Erne in | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
Northern Ireland. It will now take many months of difficult and patient | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
negotiation. It is a hugely competitive problem, because we want | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
it to cover all sorts of areas, like public procurement and services, and | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
not just manufactured goods. But it is good that is getting going, | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
:01:33. | :01:37. | ||
because this could mean millions of jobs right across Europe. On the | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
subject of giving money back, which he has just referred to in respect | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
of the Labour Party, will he now explained to the House why, when he | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
had a windfall, he decided to write down his mortgage at Notting Hill | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
instead of writing down the mortgage of the one that he was claiming for | :02:01. | :02:08. | |
from the expenses allowance in the House of Commons? I think what the | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
Honourable Gentleman needs to do is concentrate on the massive problem | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
on his front bench, because I have to say, Mr Speaker, every week till | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
they pay the money back, they are going to get a question about the | :02:23. | :02:33. | |
:02:33. | :02:52. | ||
�700,000 that they owe to the There seems to be a consensus | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
between the frontbenchers that big chunks of the report should be | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
implemented, and quickly. Mr Miliband and Mr Cameron therefore | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
decided to fallout over bankers' bonuses, to give them something to | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
argue about. The ported news since we have been | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
an air is that South Africa is 88 48. -- the imported use. | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
We are joined by the shadow attorney general, Emily Thornberry. About the | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
programme. Jacqueline says petty squabbling, | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
nothing said at PMQ 's has any bearing on my way. It just shows how | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
out of touch politicians from all colours. Another person said, a | :03:41. | :03:50. | |
snappy but boring spat. It's basically descended to, it was your | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
fault, no, it or, misguided Ed Miliband. Yet again he David Cameron | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
on the aftermath of the economic explosion. He will always get a good | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
hiding because he can never overcome the stigma of Gordon Brown and the | :04:03. | :04:13. | |
:04:13. | :04:16. | ||
Labour Party putts-macro failure to see the James in Hampshire, they | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
need to face up to the countless failures of the government and not | :04:20. | :04:27. | |
attempt to hide from the coalition's unpopular and calamitous | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
policies. He is up for criminal charges, up | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
for delaying bonuses. Mr Miliband says, that is great, and if you | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
don't, we will. It seems like the only politician in Britain prepared | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
to stand up for the bankers is Boris Johnson. No wonder, he is the Mayor | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
of London and that is where he thinks much of London's money is | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
created. The arguments may come down to the detail. Just before PMQ 's, | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
you were discussing how to define reckless behaviour. In what | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
circumstances are bonuses delayed, in what circumstances are they | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
clawed back? Although there is a broad consensus that they agreed to, | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
frankly, they all read the same opinion polls and bankers are even | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
less popular than journalists, politicians and estate agents. | :05:24. | :05:34. | |
Knotty state agents! Don't be ridiculous! -- not estate agents! | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
Miliband got the answer, yes. Will you do this? Yes. You do not want | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
that. On another note, I think this is the first time in many, many, | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
many weeks, where there is not a single critical question to the | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
Prime Minister from a conservative. The most empty as you has to | :05:55. | :06:03. | |
question, praising him for a European referendum, welfare reform | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
and academies, was done by the man who has just been made Sir Edward | :06:08. | :06:17. | |
Leigh. Amazing times.It is quite striking, because, week after week | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
he has faced really difficult questions from his own side. Maybe | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
it is because the gay marriage bill has moved out of the comments to the | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
Lords, or perhaps because Tory backbenchers are excited by the | :06:29. | :06:38. | |
Director Rendon bill in the House of Commons which will be dilated on | :06:38. | :06:47. | |
July the 5th, I'm not sure? -- excited by the Referendum Bill. . | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
Financial services are among the top five things that this country is a | :06:51. | :06:59. | |
world leader in. We have already lost about 200,000 300,000 jobs in | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
financial services since the crash of 2008. Barely a week goes by | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
without a bank announcing another 2000 or 3000 well-paid jobs are | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
going. You want to tell bankers that if they are found guilty of | :07:14. | :07:24. | |
:07:24. | :07:25. | ||
misconduct, they could go to jail, although it is yet -- not yet clear | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
how long they will have to wait for their bonus. Why don't they just go | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
elsewhere? We are the country where no one has gone to prison, which is | :07:35. | :07:43. | |
unusual. They certainly did in New York. In the States, people get hold | :07:43. | :07:53. | |
up all the time. Yeah, but not for the crash. We believe the economy | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
should be balanced. We want a strong City, and I totally agree with Boris | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Johnson, we want this City to be strong, but not at the cost of the | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
people. That means you need proper regulation. And when somebody does | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
something so outrageous that it affects lots of people's lives and | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
livelihoods... Such as what?Some of the stuff we have seen such as LIBOR | :08:18. | :08:25. | |
and financial reform. Fiddling live there is already a rough -- already | :08:25. | :08:34. | |
an offence. I think people are about to be arrested on this. I think if | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
anyone would like to step back and look at what has gone on in the | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
City, all the different offences, from what happened at HSBC, at a | :08:43. | :08:53. | |
:08:53. | :08:54. | ||
LIBOR, with the financial crust, -- the financial crash, and nobody has | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
taken responsibility. Economists will tell you that in any economy | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
you should use resources as best you can, and it is possible for them to | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
end up in the wrong place. We came into government saying that we want | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
to rebalance this economy, and we have more people in work than ever | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
before, despite the economic Times being tough, because we have allowed | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
some of the rebalancing to take place. As Nick Clegg admitted to me, | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
it has not happened. As a percentage of GDP, manufacturing, construction | :09:24. | :09:34. | |
:09:34. | :09:35. | ||
is still... I was asked by Ed to do quite a lot of work into City crime. | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
I was looking at working on an economic crime bill. One of the | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
problems we have got is that if an individual behaves in a fraudulent | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
way within a company, it is difficult to prosecute the company | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
as a whole. You can get an individual defrauding others for the | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
sake of the company, the company is not prosecuted. In the United | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
States, which we do not have here, we do not have a large fines for | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
individuals behaving for companies. We should be looking at increasing | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
the fines, putting them back into the fraud office, who can start | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
doing real prosecutions. The problem with fraud as you tend not to have a | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
dead body or a blood Trail, it is difficult to get prosecutions going. | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
We launched that on Friday. The ideas from today are very | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
interesting. We need to look at it carefully and make sure we are | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
effective. One of the reasons you can get an agreement from both sides | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
is that we all know something needs to be done. We need to be careful | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
that it is not a George Osborne spin, and that we need to toughen it | :10:43. | :10:53. | |
:10:53. | :10:58. | ||
up. Because Labour would never spin banking is an offence. We need to | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
make sure that we do it well. The last thing we want is to pass | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
legislation for the sake of it, looking at it as window dressing. We | :11:04. | :11:12. | |
have to change the corporate culture. You have had your say. | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
Politicians on all sides read in the opinion polls, they hear from their | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
constituents, they want the equivalent of the thing in a crime | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
show where you off was to walk to the police station in America, a | :11:25. | :11:33. | |
want somebody to do that. But I think in Britain, the perp walk is | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
facing the Treasury select committee, or the ultimate sanction, | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
we will take your knighthood off you! That'll teach them! People are | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
so fed up. I don't agree with Nick Clegg that the economy is not | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
rebalancing, if that is what he told you. We have 600,000 fewer people | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
working in the public sector, 1.2 million more in the private sector. | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
It is easy to bandy around manufacturing figures without | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
recognising that manufacturing is being more efficient, it is | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
producing great output. I am talking about a percentage of GDP. That does | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
not take into account the total amount of stuff being manufactured. | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
Unless the manufacturer takes a bigger share of GDP? This country is | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
manufacturing more in absolute terms and is bigger than before. Not as a | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
percentage of GDP, as the total that you manufacturer. Then it is good | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
for manufacturing, but it is not rebalancing. Reign will you break up | :12:47. | :12:57. | |
RBS? In response to the people saying that they just showed at each | :12:57. | :13:06. | |
other. .1, they watch it. I have a five-year waiting list of | :13:06. | :13:16. | |
constituents wanting to come to Prime Minister's Questions. Can we | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
see the family photo from the G8? The dress code! Let's see what they | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
should really look like. Much more stylish. Angela Merkel's is | :13:29. | :13:38. | |
particularly fetching. What was this business of not wearing ties? Did Mr | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
Cameron spread it about? There was definitely a dress code, President | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
Putin recognised it when he got off the plane in jeans and a casual | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
shirt. There is an element that is reasonable about it, but something | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
was serious and a bit different. The original idea of the G8 was that | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
leaders would get round a table, look each other in the eye and talk, | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
nobody else was in the room. It has become a massive jamboree. David | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
Cameron was trying to make it more like that. It was striking when you | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
saw the pictures that the table they were sitting around, ten, the two EU | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
presidents, was not much bigger than this. There were not other people in | :14:22. | :14:30. | |
the room. Did they achieve anything more as a result? What about Syria? | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
What did they do? They are just papering over the cracks. He talked | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
it up, the Prime Minister said, we will sort out Syria. What do you | :14:43. | :14:53. | |
:14:53. | :14:54. | ||
want him to do? You don't want him to... What do you want him to do?We | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
think that you need to talk to the Russians about assuring... Just look | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
at the face of President Putin. Do you think he was charmed and brought | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
on board, whether or not he was wearing a tie or sitting at a nice | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
table? You can hardly blame the British Prime Minister for Mr | :15:13. | :15:22. | |
Putin's face. I can blame him for saying, we will sort out Syria, and | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
doing nothing. And then all we do afterwards is talk about the ties | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
and the tables. You are doing the best you can, with very little | :15:30. | :15:37. | |
material. I was just baffled that you criticised him on Syria, when I | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
sat in a statement on Syria and officially the position of the | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
Labour Party was what he should not do. I don't remember them suggesting | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
an alternative. I am sure that if Ed Miliband was there, Mr Putin would | :15:50. | :15:59. | |
have been eating out of the palm of his hand. The question they really | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
had to face is, was it worth keeping Putin on board? Was it more | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
powerful, the statement, without putting? Camera made the compromise. | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
I asked him about it, and he said he had not done so, but he had clearly | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
watered down the words to keep Putin on board. Pharmaceutical companies | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
do not have to reveal the results of all the trials they have done. So, | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
much of the time, negative findings go unreported, leaving doctors and | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
researchers in the dark. In his soapbox, the writer and medical Dr | :16:36. | :16:45. | |
:16:46. | :17:07. | ||
Ben Goldacre explains why he wants scientific evidence to help us make | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
informed decisions about which treatment is best for the patient. | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
For this, we use randomised controlled trials, fair test 's, | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
comparing one treatment against another. But there is a problem. | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
Since the mid-19 80s, we have known that the results of these trials are | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
routinely withheld from doctors, researchers, patients and payers, | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
buried in document storage archives like this. The best currently | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
available evidence from the guest study, summarising all the studies | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
that have been done on missing data, suggest that around half of all | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
trials which have been on medicines that we use today have never been | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
published. They are buried in storage boxes like these. Worse than | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
that, trials with positive results are about twice as likely to be | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
published as trials with negative results. This week, the Public | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
Accounts Committee are looking at the issue. I gave evidence on | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
Monday. The UK government spends �12 billion a year on its drugs budget. | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
We spent half �1 billion a year on Tom Flynn, one drug alone, and yet, | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
the company withheld vitally important information on the results | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
of clinical trials. More amazingly than that, in doing so, they broke | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
no law. This is a huge medical policy line spot which has been | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
neglect did by politicians and senior doctors alike for many | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
decades. That is why, with colleagues, I have had to start a | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
public campaign. The petition now has the support of more than 50,000 | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
members of the general public, more than 100 patient groups, and, | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
belatedly, almost all the academic and medical professional bodies in | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
the UK. Even GS K, the biggest drug company in the country, have signed | :18:59. | :19:09. | |
up. We need the full methods and results of all the trials that have | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
been conduct did from all of the treatments that we use today, to | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
make informed decisions. And we need politicians to understand why that | :19:18. | :19:26. | |
matters. Dr Ben Goldacre joins us now. Do you know why the decision | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
was made to retain the withhold the results of clinical trials? You say | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
it has been done since the middle of the 1980s. It has been done for | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
ever. It is a cultural blindspot, a historical anomaly. The bull had the | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
strange idea that if you did a trial and it found no difference between | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
the new treat and and the old treatment, then it was not | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
scientifically interesting. I think that is where it again. But it | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
snowballed from there to become a huge systemic album. We have known | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
about this since the 1980s. We know that about half of all trials never | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
get published. So, how can a doctor truthfully prescribed drugs if he or | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
she does not know the full facts of the trials that have been carried | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
out on that drug? That is the core of this problem. Overall, with a lot | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
of experience in writing about the blooms in medicine, I think it is | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
unusual that drugs come to market doing more harm than good. What we | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
are talking about is whether or not we know the absolute best available | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
treatment. If there is one drug that saves eight lives out of 100, and | :20:32. | :20:39. | |
another saves six, we want everybody to have the one that saves eight. | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
play devils advocate, you could say that if you made this oblique, you | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
would be making everybody a pseudo- doctor, going online, so should it | :20:48. | :20:58. | |
:20:58. | :21:00. | ||
not be left to the experts? -- if you made this online. The reality is | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
that there are lots of organisations around the world, nonprofit bodies, | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
who summarise the evidence and produce gold standard summaries, | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
which docked tours and patients can use to decide the best treatment. We | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
cannot expect that they are not going to be able to have access to | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
this information, or that they are only allowed to see the most | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
flattering half of that information. That is not how science works. Do | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
you agree that actually, all of these clinical trial results should | :21:30. | :21:40. | |
:21:40. | :21:42. | ||
be open and given to doctors, researchers and patients? I think it | :21:42. | :21:52. | |
:21:52. | :21:54. | ||
is right that not even NICE GET THESE RESULTS, IS THAT RIGHT? | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
Actually, the European agency had a damning report of a finding by the | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
European ombudsman, after which they were forced to start releasing | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
clinical study reports that they had, not all of them, but at least | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
more. But loophole was closed just two weeks ago. Would you put | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
pressure on companies to reveal it? I think it is the right thing to do. | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
But in order to make it effective, we have to do it internationally. | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
Europe is big enough, I think, to be able to start putting pressure on | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
internationally. We do not want drugs companies to say, you are | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
making life difficult for us, let's all clear after Brazil. I think it | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
is a brilliant piece of research, and we are in relation to our | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
earlier , station about transparency, this is surely the | :22:52. | :23:02. | |
:23:02. | :23:07. | ||
definition of that. So, will you make them do it? It is an amazing | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
piece of research, and I will speak to my colleagues and we should take | :23:12. | :23:21. | |
it forward. We have a quote - we firmly believe that health | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
authorities need to remain the gate keeper for drugs approval - in other | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
words, we are not going to do it. will certainly undertake to speak to | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt about it. You can imagine in | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
previous decades, people did not even think about this stuff. But | :23:36. | :23:46. | |
:23:46. | :23:46. | ||
nowadays, it is different. If they do not want to publish trials, you | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
have put a lot of money into trials, and they do not give the results you | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
want, they are not going to want to publish them. So why would your | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
company remain in your constituency if you were forcing them to do | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
that? Clearly it would have to be done by agreement across the | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
industry, as you say. But there is no reason why David could not get | :24:05. | :24:13. | |
together to do this. There is a long and dismal history of voluntary | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
codes of conduct which are unenforced and unaudited and | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
riddled, to be honest, deliberately, with loopholes. I would welcome any | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
lobbying advice you have, and I would like advice on how to get this | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
fixed, as I find it amazing that there are things we can do in the | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
immediate short-term, like, for example, the UK government could | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
strongly lobby the European agency to bring this to the European court | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
of justice, to get this to be more transparent. But also, to have | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
politicians making a clear statement that drug companies and researchers | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
have to work harder on this. There is the statement, Grant Shapps, you | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
can have that. Now, the part of the programme that makes things happen. | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
If you run a major NHS trust at a time of unprecedented financial | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
pressures, and you are worried about the physical fitness of your staff, | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
you might want to help initiate an exercise campaign. But what do you | :25:10. | :25:20. | |
:25:20. | :25:52. | ||
# Is this the Way to Amarillo... Was Superman was played by Phil Morley, | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
the Chief Executive of Hull and East Yorkshire NHS Trust, and he has | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
caused controversy with his office exercise campaign. Staff have been | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
quoted as saying it was patronising and embarrassing. They found that he | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
was out of touch, but how did they work that out? ! What is the most | :26:13. | :26:20. | |
embarrassing thing you have done in public? Singing. I always seem. That | :26:20. | :26:30. | |
:26:30. | :26:31. | ||
is what I do. On you go, carry on. No, please, I was singing along | :26:31. | :26:41. | |
:26:41. | :26:42. | ||
earlier. You represent Islington, so you have that karaoke bar. I love | :26:42. | :26:49. | |
karaoke, and I love that bar. myself have never done anything | :26:49. | :26:59. | |
:26:59. | :27:20. | ||
embarrassing in public, I am sure of They have obviously got a copyleft. | :27:20. | :27:28. | |
But you do that every time you leave the studio! I think that was one of | :27:28. | :27:38. | |
our most senior producers. Anyway, just time to put you out of your | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
misery, and find the answer to our guest the year competition. It was | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
1974. The clue was the petrol queues, which meant it could have | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
been 1979 as well, but there were other things in the film which | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
showed it was 1974, a pretty miserable year, certainly if you | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
were a political journalist, although there were two elections, | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
one in February, and one in October. There was really no distinct outcome | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
for either, but Labour ended up the largest party in both. Anything else | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
you would like to know about 1974? No, but we would like to know who | :28:18. | :28:27. | |
the winner is. If you just best that button... -- press that button. | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
Robert Taggart in Cheshire. Congratulations. Thanks to all of | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
our guests. The one o'clock News is starting over on BBC One. I am not | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
here tomorrow, I have got to go to Prague. I am flying solo. Gyles | :28:46. | :28:50. |