19/06/2013 Daily Politics


19/06/2013

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Politics. Just when you thought banker bashing was passe, the

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banking commission bashes the bankers all over again. Well, it

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says it doesn't, but it sort of looks like it. The parliamentary

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commission, which was set up by George Osborne, says banking bosses

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should face inprisonment if their decisions force more bail-outs. The

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commission also recommends reforming the bonus system, and says the

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culture's too masculine! Who would have thought that? ! Will bankers

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now go to more accommodating climes? Would you like to co-sponsor a bill

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that's going through the House of Commons? Now's your chance. It's

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about Europe, and we'll be explaining how a little later.

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Doctor and writer Ben Goldacre will be here explaining why the law

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governing drugs trials needs to be changed. Piles and piles of vitally

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important medical trial results are being casually withheld from

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doctors, researchers and patients. We have known about this for

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And we'll be asking, have you ever done anything truly embarrasing at

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is embarrassing enough. Yes, all that and more coming up in

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the next 90 minutes. And joining me for the duration we have, back by

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popular demand, two fashion icons. Conservative Party chairman, Grant

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Shapps, and from Labour, the Shadow health minister Liz Kendall. Yes,

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unlike Boris, who took to the catwalk yesterday to promote the

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London suit, these two fine chairman of England's regulator said

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that his association was not fit for purpose when it came to hospital

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inspections and it is still not up to standard. A new report suggests

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that CQC might have deliberately covered up knowledge of its own

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failings in 2010 following a series of deaths of newborn babies at

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Furness General Hospital in Cumbria. Andy Burnham, this happened under

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Labour? The period in question goes from 2008 to 2012 so, partly, but it

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also relates to this government's time in office. Hospital regulation

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was not good enough, we saw through the process in mid-stats. I have put

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in play measures to improve it. But both sides will all be families in

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question answerer is, and I will fully commit our site to getting

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them. The more time goes on, the more we find out horrific things are

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happening in our health service. health service is a complicated

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complicated business. Things are happening every day, and sadly

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sometimes things go wrong. should not be killing people.

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Goodness me, no. Sometimes the NHS is not good at facing up to

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failings. It likes to pull down the shutters and push people away. I

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think this is what happened to some of the families in Morecambe. It is

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not acceptable. What is unforgivable is that weather have been failings,

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any attempt to cover up those failings. -- where there have been

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failings. What will shock people will be the instruction to delete an

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internal report in March 2012, which raises a whole host of questions

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about this regulator and its relationship with the Department of

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health. If you have a statutory duty to look after the care of people,

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which I assume was the job of this commission, if not only do you not

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do that but you then destroy the fact that you had failed to do it,

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surely that is worthy of a criminal charge? These are the most serious

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matters. I agree with you. You have to look at the context in which they

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deleted report, the context of an ongoing public enquiry, the context

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of measures that I had put in place to ensure much more in-depth

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examination of hospitals. You may remember this, I was in the post

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when there was a problem at Basildon, and I asked the CQC to

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assure us about the safety of all hospitals, to flush out further

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problems. It is in the context of this government saying it puts a

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high creamy on transparency, it is even more shocking. Shouldn't there

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be criminal charges for those responsible for the cover-up? A

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president of the United States lost his job because of a cover-up,

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surely they should go to jail if found guilty? If there has been a

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criminal offence. It sounds to me like the worst kind of... Will the

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government pursue criminal charges? The authorities have to do that, but

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we put in place the steps to expose it. Andy is right, transparency is

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the way to deal with this. People need to know what is going on in the

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health service. It is a word that all you politicians bandy about,

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people do not know what it means because it is likes is still above

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-- sustainable, it is a Westminster village buzzword. Over 1000 people

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died in Mid-Staffs, and in this Cumbrian hospital, people at their

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most vulnerable, pregnant women and babies, died because of this. I

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think we are -- I think we are looking for more than transparency.

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I agree with you, sustainability is really confusing, what do people

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mean whether something is sustainable or not? Transparency is

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very simple. You can see what is going on. The reason why things are

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coming out now, we are finding out about what happened with the CQC

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cover-up, and the reason that Mid-Staffs came up is through

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transparency. We said, there must be a full and thorough investigation.

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Over what happened, for example, at Mid-Staffs. We commissioned a report

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to make it entirely transparent. Transparency has a real meaning, I

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am pleased that Andy and I agree that it is the way forward.

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Mid-Staffs was, in part, the result of pursuing a policy focusing on one

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specific thing, targets beyond care. It is important that care is always

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number one. If you can be faced with criminal charges for fiddling your

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expenses, as some MPs and Lords have, surely you should face

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criminal charges for not only failing to protect the most

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vulnerable people in society but then covering up the fact? Cover-ups

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are the most serious aspect. Robert Francis would say that. It is

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wanting to make a mistake, people are human and mistakes made, but it

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is different when you say, I am going to cover up those failings.

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Transparency is a process. I think it began with the Freedom of

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Information Act. Lots of the institutions of this country have,

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through time, been beginning to feel the full force. That is a good

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thing. The Freedom of Information Act is doing its job. Dare I say it,

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the BBC has felt some of that with historic issues around the abuse of

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young people. All organisations have to go through this process. The NHS

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is different. I have to say, this was deleted in the month that the

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government was withholding the National risk register into the NHS.

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I think the government needs to stand by what it says on

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transparency. You are opening a new can of worms, but there needs to be

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policy development where you can develop policies. Transparency is

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meaningful. I have a feeling this will, but PMQ 's.

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Now, to something slightly different.

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Now, do you want to be my EU facebook app friend? Confused? Don't

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Once to get more involved in the legislative process with your PC,

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smartphone or pub -- tablet? Now you can, if thanks to the tech friendly

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Conservatives. This is James Wharton MP, who is introducing legislation

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to pave the way for a referendum on our membership of the EU in 2014. He

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is doing it himself in the form of a private member's bill, because the

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Lib Dems will not let the government do it. It is being discussed in

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Parliament on the 5th of July. The Tory party is running an online

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campaign to support it, called Let Britain Decide. They have launched

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an app on Facebook where you can co-sponsor the bill. You type in

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your name and e-mail address, your postcode, then the Conservative

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Party and all your friends will know that you are in favour. Some say

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this has no impact on the legislative process, because the

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idea of the public co-sponsoring a bill is meaningless in parliamentary

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terms. But the Tories say they will probably publish a list of people

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who have signed up to show the depth of feeling. And it allows us to

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deploy lots of puns, such as they are apping the anti-, and the Lib

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Dems will be app-alled. Adam Flemming there, and the UKIP

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MEP Gerard Batten is here. increase pressure on Labour and Lib

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Dem MPs who, for whatever reason, don't want to give the British

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people a say, and in-out referendum on Europe. They have got the

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opportunity to show they are on the side of the British people.

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Visibility to put your name to the bill means that they will be able to

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put pressure on their labour MP or the Dem MP to turn up at the

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comments and support the legislation. That way, we will get a

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referendum by the end of 2017, then we can decide on our relationship

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with Europe. We have looked on the Facebook page, are these the sorts

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of people and pressure you want on the opposition? Jules says that 2017

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is far too long, also you will not win the next election. Matthew says

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it is a cowardly idea to call a referendum, since many of the

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population do not have an understanding on the occasions.

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Julian says, the idea that we can negotiate anything is a fantasy.

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Good luck trying. Meanwhile, I shall be voting UKIP. Lou then you will

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get Labour, and not a referendum. The sensible thing is to vote for

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the pub -- party offering a referendum. It is controversial, I

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don't hide that. But to anyone who says you can't renegotiate anything

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with Europe, that is not true. We vetoed a treaty under David

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Cameron, we pulled out of an EU mechanism which would help fund

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other countries in the UU -- in the euro. We have reduced the budget on

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Europe. The re-negation comes over a period of time. App-alled the

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renegotiation. We have two -- we have to win the next election.

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will put pressure on Labour and make it look like you are on the wrong

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side? It is a political stunt, a Westminster game. That is what this

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is all about. Surely, national interest should come first? I am a

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humble Northerner but I have a few friends in Europe, not as many as

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Peter Mandelson, but a view. They don't interpret this as Let Britain

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Decide, they interpreted as, the Tory party wants out of Europe. At

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the time when growth and jobs are the main and important thing, how

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can it make sense to send a signal to our European partners that we

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want to get out? It is economic suicide. The national interest must

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come first. That is why they have got this wrong. But some Labour MPs

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support this. I spoke to one last night, she will vote on the 5th of

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July, she is not the only one. We are inviting them to co-sponsor the

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bill. Are they playing tricks, or do they actually believe, like most

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British people, that it is time to have a say on Europe? If the powers

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are renegotiated, a time will come when we have to have a say, but I

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don't think British business wants to see this kind of politicking. In

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my constituents is jobs and investment. I'd want a message being

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sent out from this country that we are pulling up the drawbridge,

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getting out, not interested in our main market any more. That is the

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wrong signal to send, you are putting politics above the national

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interest. It is a desperate PR stunt on the part of the government,

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Labour don't know how to react, because they do not want a

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referendum. If David Cameron was genuine about having a referendum,

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he could have said... It wasn't in the Queen's Speech, there was an

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amendment which was defeated. If he was genuine he could say, I will

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introduce a government bill for a referendum on the EU. If I can't get

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it through Parliament, I tried and I failed. You give me a big majority

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in 2015 and I will do it. He won't do that, he is not genuine about

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having a referendum. Still less about giving the British people a

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genuine... He doesn't need a majority, he has the coalition

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government, and if the Lib Dems stopped him even introducing a bill,

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look a much stronger he would seem. In a coalition government, to

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introduce a bill to parliament, you have to have the agreement of both

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sides. If the Lib Dems did not give that agreement, he would be in a

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much stronger position, but he is not prepared to do that, because he

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is not genuine. This was not in the manifesto, and it is great to be

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able to help the Lib Dems. He is dancing to the UKIP June, it is a

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product of a weak Prime Minister, that he has two go with his

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backbenchers. It is sad that the coalition has descended to this.

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do not want to let the public have their say. At the right time.

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there is a powers, as I said. When there is a change, we then say to

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the British people, at that appropriate moment, not in the midst

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of an economic crisis, when there is no growth, when we want to build our

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business with Europe, why send the message to them all that we want

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out? Unbelievable! It is a mechanism which would have cost billions of

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pounds, in the last, dying days of your government... Supporting the

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Eurozone countries... We made sure that that was abolished. We can

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renegotiate that and we can certainly renegotiate powers.

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powers can be renegotiated, it is all dishonest. The question is, do

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we want to be part of this United States of Europe or not? None of the

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parties want to give the people that question. If Andrew Tyrie gets his

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way, then those guilty of so-called reckless misconduct in future, in

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the banking, could spend some time at Her Majesty is pleasure. Here is

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JoCo to explain. The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards was

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set up George Osborne last year in the wake of a number of scandals in

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the industry. Its chair, Andrew Tyrie, once again seems to be in the

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mood for a spot of some banker bashing, even though he says he is

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not. The 571 page report has a number of suggestions, including the

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idea of sending senior bankers guilty of reckless misconduct to

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jail. Mr Tyrie and his chums on the commission also recommend that

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bonuses for bankers should be deferred for up to ten years. It

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will not be popular with bankers, the idea is to get away from the

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short-term thinking blamed by many for the crash in 2008. The MPs and

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peers, including none other than the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin

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Welby, also call on George Osborne to consider breaking up a Royal Bank

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of Scotland before putting it back into private hands. The report also

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recommends employing more women on the trading floor, on the grounds

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that it could reduce risk. Finally, there are proposals to increase

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competition amongst high-street banks, by making bank account

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numbers portable in the same way as mobile phone numbers. Labour's

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former City Minister John Joins Us Now, Dressed In His G8 Gear. If This

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Report Had Been Implemented in 2008, how many bankers would have gone to

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jail? Very difficult to tell. The commission has done a very good job,

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it is a very scholarly piece of work, led by Andrew Tyrie. But

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implementation is going to be challenging, particularly the

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assumptions about the obligations regarding the law and direct does,

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and, to get a convertible definition of a failure of management I think

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is going to be quite a challenge. There are many other things in the

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report which can be lamented, and hopefully the Government will do so

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fairly rapidly this idea of reckless misconduct, which could carry

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criminal charges if found guilty, I can see lawyers getting stuck into

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that definition. It could make people wary of becoming bankers in

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the first place. When Fred Goodwin, as head of RBS, was borrowing a shed

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load of money to buy ABM Umbro, was that reckless misconduct? That will

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be a matter for the board and owners of the business to decide. Remember,

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the institutional investors, who get off scot-free in Mr Tyrie's report,

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which I think is a major in his thinking, they have not behaved like

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owners. They supported that particular acquisition. Indeed, some

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of the criticisms levelled by Mr Tyrie at the Government,

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interference in the management of RBS, giving the power to the

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regulators to control leverage, not pushing hard enough on capping

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bonuses, these are big, critical comments about the Government from

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Mr Tyrie. Also, I think they could be focused on the shareholders - why

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are you not pressing for safer, more responsible banks? But when you look

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at some of what we now think, maybe not in their criminal sense, but in

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a subjective sense, was reckless misconduct by bankers, we find that

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in this reckless misconduct, they were being egged on by politicians.

:21:19.:21:29.
:21:29.:21:32.

I think they may well have been they were, we know that. What we do know

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is that there was a very permissive environment, indeed, John Redwood

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saying that in 2004, banking regulation was far too tight, we

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needed to relax it, and there was a general consensus that a light touch

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was right. In hindsight, that was badly wrong, and Mr Tyrie quite

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rightly says, we need tougher, more nose to the ground regulation, we

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need stronger boards of direct has, and we need more powerful sanctions

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against miscreants, and we need to be able to put up a finger against

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the culprits. There is not a single person in this country serving a

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jail sentence as a result of the banking crisis. There are people in

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Europe and America. Under Labour, the fact is that there was a pact

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between Gordon Brown and the bankers, which allowed the bankers

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to get a shed load of money for themselves, and he got his cut in

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the form of taxes for his public spending, and the regulation was

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therefore kept very light touch. That's why we have ended up in this

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situation - it suited Mr Brown at the time, it suited the bankers, it

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has all come back and bit us very hard. I do not accept that at all,

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that there was a pact. We want a strong city of London, that is

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clearly in the national interest, but Gordon Brown was under pressure

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to relax it further, and he didn't. It is not possible to say that it

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was whatever they wanted. Everybody has had to reassess after what

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happened in the latter part of the last decade. The keyword is

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accountability. We spoke about it in the NHS. I think the same applies

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here - is there a accountability for people 's actions Kas when I came

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out of university and I have some friends who went to the city, there

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was the culture that this was not the real world, numbers could move

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on a screen, that is how they worked, it was a culture of excess.

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I think the recommendation from the committee is a good one, because it

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will bring accountability. It is an all-party committee, which is a

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strength. I would say, let's have the Government now saying, let's put

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this into the financial services bill. You said the city of London

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was very important to this nation, but if you are going to have laws of

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reckless misconduct, which is very vague, and tell bankers they will

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have to wait ten years for their bonuses, why would they not just

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leave and go to Wall Street? Maybe they will, but are you saying we

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want reckless behaviour Kas you have not been able to define reckless

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misconduct. It has to be defined carefully, we have had senior

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parliamentarians looking at this. They have all agreed that

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recklessness is not acceptable. The question is, how does it then result

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in chronological judges? In recent years, it has been revealed that

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British banks have been money-laundering the money of the

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drug cartels in Mexico, helping to finance the breaking of sanctions

:24:49.:24:53.

against Iran and fiddling the LIBOR rate, one of the key global interest

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rates, and yet no one has gone to jail for things that I think anybody

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listening to this would think, isn't that illegal Kas is that not

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criminal charges? In fact, the chairman of HSBC, which was involved

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in the money-laundering, terrorist financing, on a scale which led to

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the loss of human life, let's not diminish this, this is not about

:25:21.:25:23.

fixing an interest rate, this led to probably hundreds of people losing

:25:24.:25:29.

their lives, the chairman of HSBC is a member of David Cameron's

:25:29.:25:35.

government, one of the advisers to George Osborne on banking reform.

:25:36.:25:45.

Just remind me who gave Fred Goodwin his knighthood? The Queen.I did not

:25:45.:25:49.

go Gordon Brown was the Queen. You get my point, you are all in it up

:25:49.:25:54.

to here. I know it is hard for you to tell me, but can you just give us

:25:54.:25:58.

an indication of when we get the Government's official response, will

:25:59.:26:01.

the Chancellor give us an indication tonight about what parts of this you

:26:01.:26:07.

are going to implement, and what parts you are not? The report is out

:26:07.:26:15.

today, and we have only had 24 hours notice. I have only asked you for

:26:15.:26:20.

the timescale. It will be pretty rapid. We have got a pretty good

:26:20.:26:26.

bill going through the house. there could be changes to that?

:26:26.:26:35.

sounds encouraging, let's put this into place. Absolutely, we like a

:26:35.:26:39.

lot on that note, we will move on. Lord Myners, thank you for coming

:26:39.:26:42.

in. It has been brought to my attention that people are coming up

:26:42.:26:48.

with all manner of excuses not to pay their TV licence fee. It is

:26:48.:26:52.

usually something to do with Daily Politics. One householder told the

:26:52.:26:57.

authorities that she only used the TV, the light from her TV set, for

:26:57.:27:02.

reading. Another claimed that she had a corgi related to one of the

:27:02.:27:07.

Queen's dogs, and thought she must be exempt. Well, not only does your

:27:07.:27:11.

hard earned dosh bring you the best political programme that money can

:27:11.:27:14.

buy, but it gets you the chance to win this - yes, The Daily Politics

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:27:22.:27:28.

home, and all you have to do is listen to JoCo's transmission.

:27:28.:27:33.

will remind you of how to enter in a minute, but let's see if you can

:27:33.:27:43.
:27:43.:28:00.

top must bear the responsibility. the time you have got a couple of

:28:00.:28:03.

dozen photographers around you, it is very difficult to meet anybody at

:28:03.:28:13.
:28:13.:28:19.

all. Two explosions have gone off within seconds of each other...

:28:19.:28:27.

# What becomes of the broken hearted? #

:28:27.:28:34.

# Is this my beginning? Or is this the end... #

:28:34.:28:44.
:28:44.:28:57.

Their are rationing for themselves, winning a Daily Politics Mug, send

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your answer to our special e-mail address, and you can see the full

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:29:11.:29:16.

Coming up to midday, let's take a look at big then. It is a great,

:29:16.:29:24.

muddy, sticky day in London. Nick Robinson is already here. Briefly,

:29:24.:29:30.

Nigel Robinson, the Deputy Speaker - sorry, Nigel Evans, the deputy

:29:30.:29:34.

speaker of the House of Commons, now arrested on three other charges...

:29:34.:29:39.

Yes, people will remember there was real shock in politics, Nigel Evans

:29:39.:29:44.

is a popular character on all sides of the House of Commons. He was

:29:44.:29:48.

arrested in May on suspicion of rape and sexual assault, and he has

:29:48.:29:51.

reported for bail today in Lancashire, and the Lancashire

:29:51.:29:55.

Constabulary have subsequently said that he has been arrested on three

:29:55.:29:58.

further offences of indecent assault. It is the sort of thing

:29:58.:30:04.

that will go round Westminster, and bringing real surprise, shock and

:30:04.:30:10.

sadness. What has GCHQ told you Mr Miller band will go on today?

:30:10.:30:16.

only! That would save me being a journalist! I do not think it takes

:30:16.:30:19.

a genius to work out that the subject you have just been talking

:30:19.:30:23.

about, banking, is an obvious territory. I think the tone will be

:30:24.:30:28.

interesting - does he invite him to agree, or does he challenge Kas

:30:28.:30:38.
:30:38.:31:02.

Livingston, for the past few years, the chief executive of BT, will take

:31:02.:31:08.

on this vital role. I believe he will bring huge talent to a vital

:31:08.:31:14.

national effort. There are many pupils an excellent

:31:14.:31:17.

schools benefiting from outstanding teaching and inspirational teachers,

:31:17.:31:27.
:31:27.:31:27.

not all of whom have been to teacher training college, necessarily.

:31:27.:31:32.

Thereon many teachers in our schools who have not been through the formal

:31:32.:31:38.

process. Some teachers have been banned from such schools. As I have

:31:38.:31:43.

been busy, -- although I have been busy, I have looked carefully at

:31:43.:31:48.

this policy, and I know there people who teach, including those on the

:31:48.:31:52.

benches of the party opposite, the honourable member for Stoke-on-Trent

:31:52.:31:56.

Central, a renowned historian, teachers in his local compounds of

:31:56.:32:03.

schools. He will be banned. There is the former member for South who will

:32:03.:32:08.

that who also enjoys doing that. I think this policy is another example

:32:08.:32:18.
:32:18.:32:21.

of brotherly love. Following the Parliamentary commission on, can he

:32:21.:32:26.

confirmed that he supports its recommendations on bonuses and

:32:26.:32:31.

criminal penalties and that he would use the banking bill to do this?

:32:32.:32:36.

support both of those. We need to take the time to read this excellent

:32:36.:32:39.

report, and I commend the member for gesture Dutchman Richard Chester for

:32:39.:32:48.

the excellent job he has done. Making sure that banks who are in

:32:48.:32:58.
:32:58.:32:59.

receipt of taxpayers money, that we can claw back bonuses, I say yes.

:32:59.:33:03.

am glad he supports the proposal on criminal penalties, but will he

:33:03.:33:07.

confirm the important issue that the government will put down the

:33:07.:33:10.

amendment to the banking Bill currently going through Parliament,

:33:10.:33:17.

to make sure it gets on the statute book as soon as the? We will be

:33:17.:33:21.

using that Bill to take these important steps. It is important

:33:21.:33:26.

that we have that opportunity. There should be a Parliamentary enquiry

:33:26.:33:31.

done rapidly, rather than a public enquiry that he supported. If we had

:33:31.:33:34.

done that, we would just about be getting going with the inquiry.

:33:34.:33:43.

Instead, we had a good enquiry and we had strong legislation, too.

:33:43.:33:46.

If the government doesn't put down the amendments on criminal

:33:46.:33:50.

penalties, we will, in the Banking Bill, and we will make sure that

:33:50.:33:56.

they happen. The Prime Minister praises the Parliamentary commission

:33:56.:33:59.

on, but let's turn to one of its recommendations from last year 's

:33:59.:34:05.

report. It said that it should legislate for a general power to

:34:05.:34:08.

break up the banks, breaking up high risk casino banking from high street

:34:08.:34:13.

banks. The commission think it is right, but the government is so far

:34:13.:34:17.

refusing to implement... The part-time Chancellor is trying to

:34:17.:34:26.

advise the Prime Minister. We think it is right, the commission think it

:34:26.:34:30.

is right, but the government has so far refused to implement that

:34:30.:34:37.

recommendation. Why isn't the government doing it? I would rather

:34:37.:34:40.

listen to my Chancellor than listen to his neighbour, the Shadow

:34:40.:34:47.

Chancellor. We remember his advice. 125% mortgages from Northern Rock,

:34:47.:34:53.

that is fine. A knighthood for Fred Goodwin, that is fine. The biggest

:34:53.:34:58.

banking bust in British history, that is fine. He was the City

:34:58.:35:02.

Minister when all of this went wrong. This government is clearing

:35:02.:35:07.

up the mess. We wouldn't have these results without this excellent

:35:07.:35:12.

enquiry commissioned by this government, we would not be able to

:35:12.:35:15.

legislate without the excellent Banking Bill provided by this

:35:15.:35:18.

government. In terms of his question, we are putting a ring

:35:18.:35:22.

fence around retail banks, something that in 13 years of a retail

:35:22.:35:25.

government, although they were both in the Treasury, they never got

:35:25.:35:29.

round to it. We are not going to take lectures

:35:29.:35:39.
:35:39.:35:41.

from the guy who was the advisor on Black Wednesday in 1992. And he had

:35:41.:35:45.

no answer to the question about retail and investment banking. Maybe

:35:45.:35:55.
:35:55.:35:55.

he can do better on this issue. On the issue of bonuses and the banks,

:35:55.:36:02.

Mr Speaker, last week's ONS figures showed that bonuses in business and

:36:02.:36:08.

financial services this April was 64% higher than a year ago. Why does

:36:08.:36:13.

the Prime Minister think that is? Bank bonuses are about a fifth of

:36:13.:36:18.

what they were when he was sitting in the Treasury. They have been

:36:18.:36:22.

going down, not up. If he wants to discuss this issue of banking,

:36:22.:36:26.

perhaps he would reflect on the fact that the other City Minister that

:36:26.:36:30.

Labour had in their time of office, Lord Myners, said this today dashed

:36:30.:36:34.

the government of which I was a member certainly has to take some

:36:34.:36:38.

culpability for the fact that the regulatory oversight of the banks

:36:38.:36:44.

was not as effective as it should be. He says, to do otherwise would

:36:44.:36:47.

be to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate. Perhaps the next

:36:47.:36:51.

time he gets to that despatch box, he will apologise for the mess they

:36:51.:37:00.

made? Here's asking questions and preparing for opposition. Let's talk

:37:00.:37:06.

about what people were saying in 2008. We all remember the speeches,

:37:06.:37:12.

don't we, Mr Speaker? A Conservative economic strategy. David Cameron, I

:37:12.:37:17.

quote, as a free marketeer by conviction, it will not surprise you

:37:17.:37:22.

to hear me say that a significant part of the problems of the last

:37:22.:37:28.

decade has been too much regulation. There you have it, Mr

:37:28.:37:38.

Speaker. He was wanting less regulation of the cap back row city.

:37:38.:37:44.

-- less regulation of the City. Bonuses are up 64% in the City in

:37:44.:37:52.

April. That is because he has cut the top rate of income tax from 50p

:37:52.:37:57.

to 45p. People took their bonuses in April and got a massive tax cut as a

:37:57.:38:04.

result. When the Prime Minister gets up to respond, will he confirm that

:38:04.:38:07.

64% figure and that people are getting a massive tax cut as a

:38:07.:38:17.
:38:17.:38:19.

result of his decision? In 2012/13, City bonuses will be 85% lower than

:38:19.:38:23.

in 2007 and eight, when those two were advising or working in the last

:38:23.:38:28.

government, with the responsibility for regulating the City. It doesn't

:38:28.:38:33.

matter what he says, he cannot get over the fact that they presided

:38:33.:38:37.

over the boom and bust, the collapse of the banks and the failure to

:38:37.:38:43.

regulate. We remember what they said in 2008 - no more boom and bust.

:38:43.:38:48.

They said a golden age for the City. They cannot hide their dreadful

:38:48.:38:54.

record and they ought to start with an apology. The whole House will

:38:55.:38:58.

have noticed, he cannot deny the figures I've doubt. He doesn't even

:38:58.:39:04.

know the facts. Bonuses are up, so that people can take advantage of

:39:04.:39:11.

his massive tax cut. For all his tough talk, the reality is that he

:39:11.:39:14.

is dragging his feet on banking reform. Business lending is still

:39:14.:39:20.

falling, bonuses are rising and ordinary families are suffering. He

:39:20.:39:25.

is giving a massive tax cut to the bankers. Just another display of

:39:25.:39:33.

extraordinary weakness. They had 13 years to sort out this problem, they

:39:33.:39:35.

did absolutely nothing. It is this government that has introduced the

:39:36.:39:41.

banking Bill, that has introduced the ring fence, that has put the

:39:41.:39:44.

Bank of England in charge of regulating credit in our economy.

:39:44.:39:49.

Instead, what we ought to be getting from him is an apology and a thank

:39:49.:39:59.
:39:59.:40:15.

I commend him for being the first Prime Minister ever to commit to a

:40:15.:40:22.

referendum on Europe, and to leading a government which has tackled

:40:22.:40:23.

welfare dependency, reduced immigration and brought in

:40:24.:40:29.

academies, therefore showing that one can be conservative, popular and

:40:29.:40:35.

write all the same time. Can I thank my honourable friend for his

:40:35.:40:40.

question? And on behalf of everyone in the house, can I congratulate him

:40:40.:40:43.

on his richly deserved night Woodcrest -- richly deserve

:40:43.:40:50.

knighthood? He served in this house for many decades and served in the

:40:50.:40:53.

vital role of overseeing the Public Accounts Committee, which does such

:40:54.:40:58.

important work. I am grateful for what he says about the referendum

:40:58.:41:02.

and would urge all colleagues to come to the House on July the 5th

:41:02.:41:07.

and vote for this bill. Is the Prime Minister proud of the

:41:07.:41:12.

fact that, on his watch, 300,000 more children have been pushed into

:41:12.:41:19.

absolute poverty? I am proud that we have protected the poorest in our

:41:19.:41:23.

country by increasing child tax credit. The most important thing we

:41:23.:41:27.

can do to tackle poverty is to get more people into work. There are now

:41:27.:41:32.

more people in work in our country than at any time in our history, and

:41:32.:41:36.

in his own area in the West Midlands, the number of people

:41:36.:41:40.

employed is up 66,000 since the election. It is worth remembering

:41:40.:41:45.

the last government's record, because even during the boom years,

:41:45.:41:51.

private sector employment in the West Midlands went down.

:41:51.:41:56.

I am sure he will want to join every member of the house in wishing all

:41:56.:42:00.

British players the best of luck for Wimbledon, which starts on Monday.

:42:00.:42:08.

Does he back the LTA's Schools Tennis Programme, which is in some

:42:08.:42:12.

schools in my constituency, to help find as a future home-grown and home

:42:12.:42:19.

trained champion? He is absolutely right to raise this. Let's

:42:19.:42:23.

congratulate Andy Murray for his excellent victory at the weekend at

:42:23.:42:28.

Queen 's club, and wish him and other British players well for the

:42:28.:42:33.

tenements. We should commend the LTA for trying to make tennis much more

:42:33.:42:37.

of a mass participation club. I see it in the primary school my children

:42:37.:42:42.

go to, where more tennis is being taught and played. It has a long way

:42:42.:42:46.

to go, and the lawn tennis Association has two satisfy sport

:42:46.:42:50.

England and all of the other funding bodies that they are making it a

:42:51.:42:58.

mass participation sport. When, according to the Sunday Times, just

:42:58.:43:00.

1000 of our richest citizens have increased their wealth since the

:43:00.:43:06.

financial crash by �119 billion, while everyone else, on average, has

:43:06.:43:14.

been forced to take a real terms cut in income, isn't his policy of

:43:14.:43:17.

enriching the perpetrators and punishing the victims are very

:43:17.:43:25.

opposite of a one nation Britain? The richest in our country will pay

:43:25.:43:29.

a higher percentage of income tax under this government to ban the

:43:29.:43:32.

last. He sat in that government with the opportunity to do something

:43:32.:43:37.

about it, but all the time he was a minister, the top tax rate was lower

:43:37.:43:41.

than it will be under this government.

:43:41.:43:47.

Does he agree with me that if a community is obliged to take a

:43:47.:43:51.

strategic piece of infrastructure, that there should be agreements for

:43:51.:43:56.

payment and compensation for any blight caused by a nationally

:43:56.:44:01.

important piece of infrastructure like a rail freight interchange?

:44:01.:44:09.

That is why section 106 agreement exist. We need to keep this area

:44:09.:44:15.

under observation about how we will handle fracking and shale gas. I

:44:15.:44:20.

think we will need a simpler mechanism to show that company -- to

:44:21.:44:24.

ensure that communities feel the benefit.

:44:24.:44:28.

On Monday the Milburn report showed that the proportion of students from

:44:28.:44:34.

state schools at the elite Russell Group universities is less than a

:44:34.:44:38.

decade ago. Another report is secretly considering lifting

:44:38.:44:42.

interest rates on previous graduate loans. After �9,000 tuition fees,

:44:42.:44:47.

does he think that another reach of faith like this is more likely to

:44:47.:44:52.

encourage students from work -- less wealthy backgrounds to apply to

:44:52.:44:57.

university, or to discourage them? The number of children from

:44:57.:45:00.

disadvantaged backgrounds going to university is higher than ever, that

:45:00.:45:06.

is a good step forward. If we wanted their children from disadvantaged

:45:06.:45:10.

backgrounds into universities, we should be supporting the academies

:45:10.:45:14.

programme and free schools. We saw in Labour putts-macro announcement

:45:14.:45:18.

that they now support free schools. But then they went on to say that

:45:18.:45:23.

they would not allow any more of them. And, quite extraordinary, they

:45:23.:45:29.

said this - what we will have is a new academies programme, like parent

:45:29.:45:32.

led academies, teacher led academies, such as a particular

:45:32.:45:37.

school in east London. They want more schools like that. The Shadow

:45:37.:45:41.

Education Secretary is nodding. But that school is a free school. What a

:45:41.:45:51.
:45:51.:45:52.

complete shambles. Can I ask the Prime Minister what discussions he

:45:52.:45:59.

has held with colleagues in Devra regarding the Environment Agency

:45:59.:46:03.

recognising the value of land, and the need to protect farmland in my

:46:03.:46:07.

constituency from flooding? I do have conversations about this issue

:46:07.:46:12.

with the Secretary of State for farming and food and rural affairs.

:46:12.:46:15.

As I announced in the House last week, he will soon be bringing

:46:15.:46:23.

forward the proposal to make sure that the insurance scheme regarding

:46:23.:46:27.

the danger of flooding is renewed. We also need to protect farmland,

:46:27.:46:32.

not least because with global population is rising, the demand for

:46:32.:46:42.
:46:42.:46:51.

food production will have to increase. In my constituency, one in

:46:51.:46:54.

three is living in poverty, compared to one in ten in his constituency -

:46:54.:46:57.

what is he going to do about it? I have to say to the honourable

:46:57.:47:03.

gentleman, the problem with the last government's legacy is, because you

:47:03.:47:06.

left a massive debt burden and a massive deficit, this government had

:47:06.:47:15.

to take action to deal with it. As I said, the best way... We will

:47:15.:47:19.

concentrate on the policies of the Government, not... Order. Nothing

:47:19.:47:25.

further required. We will move on. Whatever the long-term benefits of

:47:25.:47:30.

High Speed Rail Bill the project is already causing serious worry for

:47:30.:47:35.

tens of thousands of homeowners along the route. Will my Right

:47:35.:47:37.

Honourable Friend give urgent attention and consideration to the

:47:37.:47:43.

possibility of introducing a property bond to remove that blight?

:47:43.:47:52.

I know My Honourable Friend is concerned about this issue, and I

:47:52.:47:59.

know that it is right that he stands up for his constituents, and other

:47:59.:48:05.

MPs have discussed this with me. First of all, I think we should

:48:05.:48:07.

remain committed to HS2, because it will connect our cities and

:48:07.:48:09.

communities and bring many benefits, particularly, I believe, to the

:48:09.:48:10.

north of England. But I think we should look at the compensation

:48:10.:48:12.

schemes available, and we are listening to the idea of the

:48:12.:48:14.

property bond. In his state meant following the appalling murder of a

:48:14.:48:19.

month ago, the Prime Minister announced the setting up of the

:48:19.:48:28.

Government the Prime Minister -- the Government's task force on extremism

:48:28.:48:32.

in our communities. In Woolwich, our diverse communities have been

:48:32.:48:35.

working hard to do just that. Can the Prime Minister House what

:48:35.:48:40.

progress has been made, and specifically what new ways he

:48:40.:48:45.

envisages emerging to support communities such as ours? First of

:48:45.:48:48.

all, can I commend the Right Honourable Gentleman for the action

:48:48.:48:51.

he has taken in his own community. When I visited Woolwich I saw how

:48:51.:48:55.

strongly that community has come together to decry what happened and

:48:55.:49:00.

to build a stronger future. The task force has met and the ideas have

:49:00.:49:04.

been commissioned. One particular idea we are looking at is something

:49:04.:49:07.

I heard while I was with him in Woolwich, which is, where

:49:07.:49:10.

communities want to come together and try to drive extremist groups

:49:10.:49:15.

out of particular mosques or Islamic centres, they often need help

:49:15.:49:20.

including help with legal advice to do that. So, that is one specific

:49:20.:49:24.

idea. But this task force should cover the whole waterfront from

:49:24.:49:34.
:49:34.:49:38.

everything right across the community. Given the role of women

:49:38.:49:44.

in the developing world, especially in the realm of sanitation, health,

:49:45.:49:47.

business and all other matters affecting administration in other

:49:47.:49:51.

countries, will my Right Honourable Friend take a positive interest in

:49:51.:49:56.

my gender inequality bill, which is coming forward today, and will he

:49:56.:50:04.

note that he was already supported by the very wide range of people? I

:50:04.:50:11.

will study My Honourable Friend's bill closely. It is not the bill

:50:11.:50:21.

that everybody might expect... more about real cash's bill. It is

:50:21.:50:24.

not necessarily the bill which we would all expecting to produce, but

:50:24.:50:28.

I think it is an excellent idea, I'm co-chairing the high-level panel at

:50:28.:50:32.

the UN about the future of development, I wanted to make sure

:50:32.:50:35.

that gender equality was put right up there in the replacement for the

:50:35.:50:40.

millennium development goals, and it is there, and I think his bill might

:50:40.:50:46.

be able to provide some extra ideas to bring this to life. In 2010, the

:50:46.:50:50.

Prime Minister proudly stated, and I quote, we actually made sure that

:50:50.:50:54.

neither the budget nor the spending round would result in any increase

:50:54.:51:00.

in child poverty. But in his first full year as Prime Minister, the

:51:00.:51:02.

number of children in absolute poverty rose by 300000 and is still

:51:02.:51:07.

rising. Will he now admits that he was wrong and his policies are to

:51:07.:51:12.

blame? We did make a specific decision in the spending round to

:51:12.:51:18.

increase child tax credit for the poorest families in our country. But

:51:18.:51:22.

we had an inheritance from the past garment of such appalling levels of

:51:22.:51:26.

debt that it has been painful to deal with. But let me repeat the

:51:26.:51:29.

best way to get people out of poverty is to see employment grow,

:51:30.:51:33.

and in the north-west, the part of the country she represents,

:51:33.:51:39.

employment has risen by 6000 this quarter. It has 50,000 since the

:51:39.:51:42.

election, and unemployment is now 20,000 since the election. Those are

:51:42.:51:47.

all life chances, jobs and chances to get on, that people did not have

:51:47.:51:53.

under the last Labour government. Could I welcome my Right Honourable

:51:53.:52:00.

Friend's leadership of the G8 in helping to prevent the horrors of

:52:00.:52:04.

Syria turning into a regional humanitarian catastrophe? And could

:52:04.:52:12.

I urge him to pursue further the support for Lebanon and Jordan, two

:52:12.:52:14.

very fragile neighbouring states, and especially urge him to go

:52:14.:52:17.

further with the support we are providing for the leather knee 's

:52:17.:52:24.

army, which is the only organisation in the area which could be a

:52:24.:52:33.

potentially stabilising force. -- Lebanese army. Could I thank him for

:52:33.:52:36.

that. We did make some progress on Syria, the tequila Lee in terms of

:52:36.:52:42.

humanitarian aid, where $1.5 billion extra was pledged for what is now

:52:42.:52:47.

becoming one of the worst Unitarian crises we have seen in recent years.

:52:47.:52:51.

He is absolutely right, we need to support the neighbouring states, and

:52:51.:53:01.
:53:01.:53:02.

we should support the Lebanese army. In response to My Honourable

:53:02.:53:06.

Friend, on several occasions, the Prime Minister has said that the

:53:06.:53:10.

best way of tackling poverty is to get people into work. But would he

:53:10.:53:15.

explain this - why is it that two thirds of the children in poverty

:53:15.:53:19.

today come from families where there is at least one adult in work, and

:53:19.:53:26.

why is that figure rising? The point I would make to the Jan Short is

:53:26.:53:31.

that work is the best answer for taking people out of poverty. -- to

:53:31.:53:33.

the Honourable Gentleman. Yes, of course we should continue paying

:53:34.:53:39.

child benefit, which we do, and tax credits. Indeed, one decision we

:53:39.:53:42.

made when we came into office was to stop the nonsense of tax credits

:53:42.:53:47.

going to people, including members of this House of Commons, earning

:53:47.:53:50.

�50,000 or more a year. We are focusing their help on the people

:53:50.:53:55.

who need it most. Yes, in the West Midlands, we have seen an extra

:53:55.:54:05.

66,000 people in work. A few weeks ago, nine paediatricians wrote to me

:54:05.:54:08.

in the code quality commission expressing serious safety concerns

:54:08.:54:11.

regarding maternity services getting downgraded. Since then, their

:54:11.:54:16.

managers have acted in an intimidating manner. Real the Prime

:54:16.:54:21.

Minister ensure me that reprisals will not be made against these.

:54:21.:54:29.

Does? -- against these doctors? As we have said before, there should

:54:29.:54:33.

always be safeguards for people who whistleblower and tell the truth

:54:33.:54:39.

about Robbins in the NHS. We have completely overhauled the CQC, and

:54:39.:54:42.

the report out today proves that it was a totally dysfunctional

:54:42.:54:48.

organisation that we inherited. In a few weeks, thousands of young people

:54:48.:54:53.

across the country will be graduating from university, and

:54:53.:54:57.

looking forward to getting their first step on the career ladder.

:54:57.:55:00.

Unfortunately for many of them, the only option will be a long-term,

:55:00.:55:05.

unpaid internship, which requires them to work for free. Will the

:55:05.:55:08.

Prime Minister therefore make sure that the national minimum wage

:55:08.:55:13.

regulations are vigorously enforced by HM RC to put an end to this

:55:14.:55:18.

expectation of our young people? I think the Right Honourable Lady is

:55:18.:55:21.

doing some really important work in this area, and it is an important

:55:21.:55:27.

area to get right. We all know from our own experiences at some short

:55:27.:55:32.

term internships, work experience, can be very valuable for picking

:55:32.:55:38.

taking part. But on the other hand, what we should not have is the

:55:38.:55:41.

employment of unpaid interns instead of workers to avoid the national

:55:41.:55:45.

minimum wage. That is the balance we have to put right and I commend her

:55:45.:55:51.

for the important work she is doing. The excellent children's heart unit

:55:51.:55:54.

at Southampton General is the best in the country outside of London,

:55:54.:55:58.

get the recent decision by the Secretary of State means more

:55:58.:56:00.

uncertainty for patients and their families in my Eastleigh

:56:00.:56:05.

constituency. What assurances can the Prime Minister give over the

:56:05.:56:09.

future of this unit? What I would say to My Honourable Friend is that

:56:09.:56:14.

I do not think the Secretary of State really had any choice but to

:56:14.:56:19.

start this whole process of looking at safe and sustainable services,

:56:19.:56:24.

including Southampton, which is twinned with the hospital which

:56:24.:56:29.

serves my constituency. I understand people's frustration, but most

:56:29.:56:34.

important is to make sure we get the decision right. The Government's own

:56:34.:56:39.

research shows a link between the portrayal of women as sex objects in

:56:39.:56:42.

the media and the greater acceptance of sexual harassment and violence

:56:43.:56:47.

against women. That being the case, will he join me in trying to get our

:56:47.:56:51.

own House in order, calling on the Parliamentary authorities to stop

:56:51.:56:54.

the Sun newspaper being available on the Parliamentary estate, and will

:56:54.:56:58.

he have a word with his friend Rupert Murdoch with it while he is

:56:58.:57:07.

at it? I am grateful to the Honourable Lady, I am glad she got

:57:07.:57:09.

her question asked, after the dazzling T-shirt she was wearing

:57:09.:57:13.

last week failed to catch the Speaker's I. I think it is very

:57:13.:57:17.

important that we should be able to read or newspapers on the

:57:17.:57:24.

Parliamentary estate, including the Sun newspaper. I welcome the Prime

:57:24.:57:29.

Minister's leadership, that, on getting the G8 to agree a deal on

:57:29.:57:33.

tackling aggressive corporate tax avoidance. Will my Right Honourable

:57:33.:57:38.

Friend confirmed that he will not be offering a corporate tax avoidance

:57:38.:57:44.

service as does the party opposite? I think My Honourable Friend makes

:57:44.:57:49.

an important point, which is that at the G8, we achieved real progress on

:57:49.:57:52.

tax transparency, cracking down on tax evasion and aggressive tax

:57:52.:57:55.

avoidance, but is it not a sad thing that while we were doing that, the

:57:55.:58:00.

party opposite is still offering tax avoidance advice to its donors, and

:58:00.:58:08.

they have not paid back the �700 of tax that they owe. Let me remind him

:58:08.:58:12.

what he said Ash if everybody approaches their tax affairs like

:58:12.:58:16.

some of these companies do, we would not have an education service, we

:58:16.:58:20.

would not have a health system. So, he has got to put his hand in his

:58:20.:58:27.

pocket and give the money back. Prime Minister, I wrote to you on

:58:27.:58:31.

eight May and have not yet received a reply. Could I ask you now - have

:58:31.:58:36.

you ever had any discussions with Lincoln Crosby about the standard

:58:36.:58:39.

packaging of cigarettes or the minimum price of unit of alcohol,

:58:39.:58:44.

yes or no? I can tell you that Lynton Crosby has never lobbied me

:58:44.:58:49.

on anything. The only opinions that I am interested in our how we

:58:49.:58:55.

destroy the credibility of the Labour Party. On which he has

:58:55.:58:58.

considerable expertise, though I have to say he is not doing as good

:58:58.:59:08.
:59:08.:59:14.

a job as the party opposite. successfully intervened in the case

:59:14.:59:19.

of a newborn baby, who has now eventually been confirmed as the

:59:19.:59:23.

daughter of a private who died on active service in Afghanistan. His

:59:23.:59:26.

fiancee and family are in the gallery today. This whole situation,

:59:26.:59:32.

Mr Speaker, would not have arisen if the MOD routinely kept samples of

:59:33.:59:36.

DNA for those soldiers on active duty - are we making any progress on

:59:36.:59:40.

this? My Honourable Friend makes an important point, and he is quite

:59:40.:59:43.

right to have stood up for his constituents in the way that he did.

:59:43.:59:47.

I would like to convene a meeting with MOD ministers, so that I can

:59:47.:59:51.

get back to him with the very best answer about the action we can take

:59:51.:59:56.

to stop this happening in the future. The number of families

:59:56.:00:02.

living in temporary accommodation, homeless families, rose by 5000 in

:00:02.:00:08.

the last year. Can the Prime Minister explain why? ? What we need

:00:08.:00:12.

to do is to build more houses in our country, and that is exactly what

:00:12.:00:17.

this government is doing. We are building more social houses and more

:00:17.:00:21.

private houses, and we are reforming housing benefit, so we can better

:00:21.:00:28.

use the money. The question now is for the party opposite. Base bend

:00:28.:00:30.

weeks and weeks complaining about the removal of the spare room

:00:30.:00:34.

subsidy. I do not know whether anybody else has noticed, they do

:00:34.:00:37.

not ask questions about it any more. Could that possibly be because they

:00:37.:00:47.

have not got a clue about whether they would restore it? With an

:00:47.:00:49.

estimated �10 billion boost to our economy, does my Right Honourable

:00:49.:00:54.

Friend agree that a free-trade agreement with the United States

:00:54.:00:59.

represents a glittering prize for Britain and for Europe?

:00:59.:01:02.

Honourable Friend is absolutely right. I think it is very good news

:01:02.:01:07.

that this free-trade agreement has been launched at Lough Erne in

:01:07.:01:11.

Northern Ireland. It will now take many months of difficult and patient

:01:11.:01:15.

negotiation. It is a hugely competitive problem, because we want

:01:15.:01:19.

it to cover all sorts of areas, like public procurement and services, and

:01:19.:01:23.

not just manufactured goods. But it is good that is getting going,

:01:23.:01:33.
:01:33.:01:37.

because this could mean millions of jobs right across Europe. On the

:01:37.:01:41.

subject of giving money back, which he has just referred to in respect

:01:41.:01:48.

of the Labour Party, will he now explained to the House why, when he

:01:48.:01:54.

had a windfall, he decided to write down his mortgage at Notting Hill

:01:54.:02:01.

instead of writing down the mortgage of the one that he was claiming for

:02:01.:02:08.

from the expenses allowance in the House of Commons? I think what the

:02:08.:02:13.

Honourable Gentleman needs to do is concentrate on the massive problem

:02:13.:02:18.

on his front bench, because I have to say, Mr Speaker, every week till

:02:18.:02:23.

they pay the money back, they are going to get a question about the

:02:23.:02:33.
:02:33.:02:52.

�700,000 that they owe to the There seems to be a consensus

:02:52.:02:56.

between the frontbenchers that big chunks of the report should be

:02:57.:03:02.

implemented, and quickly. Mr Miliband and Mr Cameron therefore

:03:02.:03:05.

decided to fallout over bankers' bonuses, to give them something to

:03:05.:03:10.

argue about. The ported news since we have been

:03:10.:03:16.

an air is that South Africa is 88 48. -- the imported use.

:03:16.:03:23.

We are joined by the shadow attorney general, Emily Thornberry. About the

:03:23.:03:29.

programme. Jacqueline says petty squabbling,

:03:29.:03:35.

nothing said at PMQ 's has any bearing on my way. It just shows how

:03:35.:03:41.

out of touch politicians from all colours. Another person said, a

:03:41.:03:50.

snappy but boring spat. It's basically descended to, it was your

:03:50.:03:55.

fault, no, it or, misguided Ed Miliband. Yet again he David Cameron

:03:55.:03:59.

on the aftermath of the economic explosion. He will always get a good

:03:59.:04:03.

hiding because he can never overcome the stigma of Gordon Brown and the

:04:03.:04:13.
:04:13.:04:16.

Labour Party putts-macro failure to see the James in Hampshire, they

:04:16.:04:20.

need to face up to the countless failures of the government and not

:04:20.:04:27.

attempt to hide from the coalition's unpopular and calamitous

:04:27.:04:34.

policies. He is up for criminal charges, up

:04:34.:04:39.

for delaying bonuses. Mr Miliband says, that is great, and if you

:04:39.:04:42.

don't, we will. It seems like the only politician in Britain prepared

:04:43.:04:49.

to stand up for the bankers is Boris Johnson. No wonder, he is the Mayor

:04:49.:04:53.

of London and that is where he thinks much of London's money is

:04:53.:04:59.

created. The arguments may come down to the detail. Just before PMQ 's,

:04:59.:05:05.

you were discussing how to define reckless behaviour. In what

:05:05.:05:07.

circumstances are bonuses delayed, in what circumstances are they

:05:07.:05:13.

clawed back? Although there is a broad consensus that they agreed to,

:05:13.:05:18.

frankly, they all read the same opinion polls and bankers are even

:05:18.:05:24.

less popular than journalists, politicians and estate agents.

:05:24.:05:34.

Knotty state agents! Don't be ridiculous! -- not estate agents!

:05:34.:05:39.

Miliband got the answer, yes. Will you do this? Yes. You do not want

:05:39.:05:45.

that. On another note, I think this is the first time in many, many,

:05:45.:05:50.

many weeks, where there is not a single critical question to the

:05:50.:05:55.

Prime Minister from a conservative. The most empty as you has to

:05:55.:06:03.

question, praising him for a European referendum, welfare reform

:06:03.:06:08.

and academies, was done by the man who has just been made Sir Edward

:06:08.:06:17.

Leigh. Amazing times.It is quite striking, because, week after week

:06:17.:06:21.

he has faced really difficult questions from his own side. Maybe

:06:21.:06:25.

it is because the gay marriage bill has moved out of the comments to the

:06:25.:06:29.

Lords, or perhaps because Tory backbenchers are excited by the

:06:29.:06:38.

Director Rendon bill in the House of Commons which will be dilated on

:06:38.:06:47.

July the 5th, I'm not sure? -- excited by the Referendum Bill. .

:06:47.:06:51.

Financial services are among the top five things that this country is a

:06:51.:06:59.

world leader in. We have already lost about 200,000 300,000 jobs in

:06:59.:07:05.

financial services since the crash of 2008. Barely a week goes by

:07:05.:07:08.

without a bank announcing another 2000 or 3000 well-paid jobs are

:07:08.:07:14.

going. You want to tell bankers that if they are found guilty of

:07:14.:07:24.
:07:24.:07:25.

misconduct, they could go to jail, although it is yet -- not yet clear

:07:25.:07:30.

how long they will have to wait for their bonus. Why don't they just go

:07:30.:07:35.

elsewhere? We are the country where no one has gone to prison, which is

:07:35.:07:43.

unusual. They certainly did in New York. In the States, people get hold

:07:43.:07:53.

up all the time. Yeah, but not for the crash. We believe the economy

:07:53.:07:57.

should be balanced. We want a strong City, and I totally agree with Boris

:07:57.:08:02.

Johnson, we want this City to be strong, but not at the cost of the

:08:02.:08:06.

people. That means you need proper regulation. And when somebody does

:08:06.:08:12.

something so outrageous that it affects lots of people's lives and

:08:12.:08:18.

livelihoods... Such as what?Some of the stuff we have seen such as LIBOR

:08:18.:08:25.

and financial reform. Fiddling live there is already a rough -- already

:08:25.:08:34.

an offence. I think people are about to be arrested on this. I think if

:08:34.:08:37.

anyone would like to step back and look at what has gone on in the

:08:37.:08:43.

City, all the different offences, from what happened at HSBC, at a

:08:43.:08:53.
:08:53.:08:54.

LIBOR, with the financial crust, -- the financial crash, and nobody has

:08:54.:08:56.

taken responsibility. Economists will tell you that in any economy

:08:56.:09:00.

you should use resources as best you can, and it is possible for them to

:09:00.:09:05.

end up in the wrong place. We came into government saying that we want

:09:05.:09:09.

to rebalance this economy, and we have more people in work than ever

:09:09.:09:14.

before, despite the economic Times being tough, because we have allowed

:09:14.:09:20.

some of the rebalancing to take place. As Nick Clegg admitted to me,

:09:20.:09:24.

it has not happened. As a percentage of GDP, manufacturing, construction

:09:24.:09:34.
:09:34.:09:35.

is still... I was asked by Ed to do quite a lot of work into City crime.

:09:35.:09:38.

I was looking at working on an economic crime bill. One of the

:09:38.:09:43.

problems we have got is that if an individual behaves in a fraudulent

:09:43.:09:50.

way within a company, it is difficult to prosecute the company

:09:50.:09:53.

as a whole. You can get an individual defrauding others for the

:09:53.:09:55.

sake of the company, the company is not prosecuted. In the United

:09:55.:10:00.

States, which we do not have here, we do not have a large fines for

:10:00.:10:07.

individuals behaving for companies. We should be looking at increasing

:10:07.:10:11.

the fines, putting them back into the fraud office, who can start

:10:11.:10:16.

doing real prosecutions. The problem with fraud as you tend not to have a

:10:16.:10:23.

dead body or a blood Trail, it is difficult to get prosecutions going.

:10:23.:10:27.

We launched that on Friday. The ideas from today are very

:10:27.:10:30.

interesting. We need to look at it carefully and make sure we are

:10:30.:10:34.

effective. One of the reasons you can get an agreement from both sides

:10:34.:10:39.

is that we all know something needs to be done. We need to be careful

:10:39.:10:43.

that it is not a George Osborne spin, and that we need to toughen it

:10:43.:10:53.
:10:53.:10:58.

up. Because Labour would never spin banking is an offence. We need to

:10:58.:11:00.

make sure that we do it well. The last thing we want is to pass

:11:00.:11:04.

legislation for the sake of it, looking at it as window dressing. We

:11:04.:11:12.

have to change the corporate culture. You have had your say.

:11:12.:11:15.

Politicians on all sides read in the opinion polls, they hear from their

:11:15.:11:20.

constituents, they want the equivalent of the thing in a crime

:11:20.:11:25.

show where you off was to walk to the police station in America, a

:11:25.:11:33.

want somebody to do that. But I think in Britain, the perp walk is

:11:33.:11:37.

facing the Treasury select committee, or the ultimate sanction,

:11:37.:11:44.

we will take your knighthood off you! That'll teach them! People are

:11:44.:11:52.

so fed up. I don't agree with Nick Clegg that the economy is not

:11:52.:11:58.

rebalancing, if that is what he told you. We have 600,000 fewer people

:11:58.:12:02.

working in the public sector, 1.2 million more in the private sector.

:12:02.:12:06.

It is easy to bandy around manufacturing figures without

:12:06.:12:11.

recognising that manufacturing is being more efficient, it is

:12:11.:12:17.

producing great output. I am talking about a percentage of GDP. That does

:12:17.:12:23.

not take into account the total amount of stuff being manufactured.

:12:23.:12:30.

Unless the manufacturer takes a bigger share of GDP? This country is

:12:30.:12:36.

manufacturing more in absolute terms and is bigger than before. Not as a

:12:36.:12:42.

percentage of GDP, as the total that you manufacturer. Then it is good

:12:42.:12:47.

for manufacturing, but it is not rebalancing. Reign will you break up

:12:47.:12:57.

RBS? In response to the people saying that they just showed at each

:12:57.:13:06.

other. .1, they watch it. I have a five-year waiting list of

:13:06.:13:16.

constituents wanting to come to Prime Minister's Questions. Can we

:13:16.:13:23.

see the family photo from the G8? The dress code! Let's see what they

:13:23.:13:29.

should really look like. Much more stylish. Angela Merkel's is

:13:29.:13:38.

particularly fetching. What was this business of not wearing ties? Did Mr

:13:38.:13:45.

Cameron spread it about? There was definitely a dress code, President

:13:45.:13:49.

Putin recognised it when he got off the plane in jeans and a casual

:13:49.:13:54.

shirt. There is an element that is reasonable about it, but something

:13:54.:13:58.

was serious and a bit different. The original idea of the G8 was that

:13:58.:14:04.

leaders would get round a table, look each other in the eye and talk,

:14:04.:14:08.

nobody else was in the room. It has become a massive jamboree. David

:14:08.:14:13.

Cameron was trying to make it more like that. It was striking when you

:14:13.:14:18.

saw the pictures that the table they were sitting around, ten, the two EU

:14:18.:14:22.

presidents, was not much bigger than this. There were not other people in

:14:22.:14:30.

the room. Did they achieve anything more as a result? What about Syria?

:14:30.:14:37.

What did they do? They are just papering over the cracks. He talked

:14:37.:14:43.

it up, the Prime Minister said, we will sort out Syria. What do you

:14:43.:14:53.
:14:53.:14:54.

want him to do? You don't want him to... What do you want him to do?We

:14:54.:15:00.

think that you need to talk to the Russians about assuring... Just look

:15:00.:15:05.

at the face of President Putin. Do you think he was charmed and brought

:15:05.:15:08.

on board, whether or not he was wearing a tie or sitting at a nice

:15:08.:15:13.

table? You can hardly blame the British Prime Minister for Mr

:15:13.:15:22.

Putin's face. I can blame him for saying, we will sort out Syria, and

:15:22.:15:27.

doing nothing. And then all we do afterwards is talk about the ties

:15:27.:15:30.

and the tables. You are doing the best you can, with very little

:15:30.:15:37.

material. I was just baffled that you criticised him on Syria, when I

:15:37.:15:40.

sat in a statement on Syria and officially the position of the

:15:41.:15:46.

Labour Party was what he should not do. I don't remember them suggesting

:15:46.:15:50.

an alternative. I am sure that if Ed Miliband was there, Mr Putin would

:15:50.:15:59.

have been eating out of the palm of his hand. The question they really

:15:59.:16:04.

had to face is, was it worth keeping Putin on board? Was it more

:16:04.:16:08.

powerful, the statement, without putting? Camera made the compromise.

:16:08.:16:15.

I asked him about it, and he said he had not done so, but he had clearly

:16:15.:16:22.

watered down the words to keep Putin on board. Pharmaceutical companies

:16:22.:16:26.

do not have to reveal the results of all the trials they have done. So,

:16:26.:16:30.

much of the time, negative findings go unreported, leaving doctors and

:16:30.:16:35.

researchers in the dark. In his soapbox, the writer and medical Dr

:16:36.:16:45.
:16:46.:17:07.

Ben Goldacre explains why he wants scientific evidence to help us make

:17:07.:17:12.

informed decisions about which treatment is best for the patient.

:17:12.:17:16.

For this, we use randomised controlled trials, fair test 's,

:17:16.:17:19.

comparing one treatment against another. But there is a problem.

:17:19.:17:23.

Since the mid-19 80s, we have known that the results of these trials are

:17:23.:17:30.

routinely withheld from doctors, researchers, patients and payers,

:17:30.:17:33.

buried in document storage archives like this. The best currently

:17:33.:17:39.

available evidence from the guest study, summarising all the studies

:17:39.:17:42.

that have been done on missing data, suggest that around half of all

:17:42.:17:46.

trials which have been on medicines that we use today have never been

:17:46.:17:50.

published. They are buried in storage boxes like these. Worse than

:17:50.:17:56.

that, trials with positive results are about twice as likely to be

:17:56.:17:59.

published as trials with negative results. This week, the Public

:17:59.:18:04.

Accounts Committee are looking at the issue. I gave evidence on

:18:04.:18:10.

Monday. The UK government spends �12 billion a year on its drugs budget.

:18:10.:18:15.

We spent half �1 billion a year on Tom Flynn, one drug alone, and yet,

:18:16.:18:18.

the company withheld vitally important information on the results

:18:18.:18:24.

of clinical trials. More amazingly than that, in doing so, they broke

:18:24.:18:31.

no law. This is a huge medical policy line spot which has been

:18:31.:18:37.

neglect did by politicians and senior doctors alike for many

:18:37.:18:41.

decades. That is why, with colleagues, I have had to start a

:18:41.:18:46.

public campaign. The petition now has the support of more than 50,000

:18:46.:18:50.

members of the general public, more than 100 patient groups, and,

:18:50.:18:55.

belatedly, almost all the academic and medical professional bodies in

:18:55.:18:59.

the UK. Even GS K, the biggest drug company in the country, have signed

:18:59.:19:09.

up. We need the full methods and results of all the trials that have

:19:09.:19:12.

been conduct did from all of the treatments that we use today, to

:19:12.:19:18.

make informed decisions. And we need politicians to understand why that

:19:18.:19:26.

matters. Dr Ben Goldacre joins us now. Do you know why the decision

:19:26.:19:31.

was made to retain the withhold the results of clinical trials? You say

:19:31.:19:35.

it has been done since the middle of the 1980s. It has been done for

:19:35.:19:41.

ever. It is a cultural blindspot, a historical anomaly. The bull had the

:19:41.:19:44.

strange idea that if you did a trial and it found no difference between

:19:44.:19:47.

the new treat and and the old treatment, then it was not

:19:47.:19:51.

scientifically interesting. I think that is where it again. But it

:19:51.:19:56.

snowballed from there to become a huge systemic album. We have known

:19:56.:20:00.

about this since the 1980s. We know that about half of all trials never

:20:00.:20:07.

get published. So, how can a doctor truthfully prescribed drugs if he or

:20:07.:20:10.

she does not know the full facts of the trials that have been carried

:20:10.:20:16.

out on that drug? That is the core of this problem. Overall, with a lot

:20:16.:20:21.

of experience in writing about the blooms in medicine, I think it is

:20:21.:20:24.

unusual that drugs come to market doing more harm than good. What we

:20:24.:20:27.

are talking about is whether or not we know the absolute best available

:20:27.:20:32.

treatment. If there is one drug that saves eight lives out of 100, and

:20:32.:20:39.

another saves six, we want everybody to have the one that saves eight.

:20:39.:20:43.

play devils advocate, you could say that if you made this oblique, you

:20:44.:20:48.

would be making everybody a pseudo- doctor, going online, so should it

:20:48.:20:58.
:20:58.:21:00.

not be left to the experts? -- if you made this online. The reality is

:21:00.:21:06.

that there are lots of organisations around the world, nonprofit bodies,

:21:06.:21:08.

who summarise the evidence and produce gold standard summaries,

:21:09.:21:15.

which docked tours and patients can use to decide the best treatment. We

:21:15.:21:18.

cannot expect that they are not going to be able to have access to

:21:19.:21:22.

this information, or that they are only allowed to see the most

:21:22.:21:28.

flattering half of that information. That is not how science works. Do

:21:28.:21:30.

you agree that actually, all of these clinical trial results should

:21:30.:21:40.
:21:40.:21:42.

be open and given to doctors, researchers and patients? I think it

:21:42.:21:52.
:21:52.:21:54.

is right that not even NICE GET THESE RESULTS, IS THAT RIGHT?

:21:54.:22:00.

Actually, the European agency had a damning report of a finding by the

:22:00.:22:03.

European ombudsman, after which they were forced to start releasing

:22:03.:22:07.

clinical study reports that they had, not all of them, but at least

:22:07.:22:14.

more. But loophole was closed just two weeks ago. Would you put

:22:14.:22:20.

pressure on companies to reveal it? I think it is the right thing to do.

:22:20.:22:26.

But in order to make it effective, we have to do it internationally.

:22:26.:22:32.

Europe is big enough, I think, to be able to start putting pressure on

:22:32.:22:36.

internationally. We do not want drugs companies to say, you are

:22:36.:22:42.

making life difficult for us, let's all clear after Brazil. I think it

:22:42.:22:47.

is a brilliant piece of research, and we are in relation to our

:22:47.:22:52.

earlier , station about transparency, this is surely the

:22:52.:23:02.
:23:02.:23:07.

definition of that. So, will you make them do it? It is an amazing

:23:07.:23:12.

piece of research, and I will speak to my colleagues and we should take

:23:12.:23:21.

it forward. We have a quote - we firmly believe that health

:23:21.:23:23.

authorities need to remain the gate keeper for drugs approval - in other

:23:23.:23:28.

words, we are not going to do it. will certainly undertake to speak to

:23:28.:23:33.

the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt about it. You can imagine in

:23:33.:23:36.

previous decades, people did not even think about this stuff. But

:23:36.:23:46.
:23:46.:23:46.

nowadays, it is different. If they do not want to publish trials, you

:23:46.:23:50.

have put a lot of money into trials, and they do not give the results you

:23:50.:23:55.

want, they are not going to want to publish them. So why would your

:23:55.:23:58.

company remain in your constituency if you were forcing them to do

:23:58.:24:01.

that? Clearly it would have to be done by agreement across the

:24:01.:24:05.

industry, as you say. But there is no reason why David could not get

:24:05.:24:13.

together to do this. There is a long and dismal history of voluntary

:24:13.:24:18.

codes of conduct which are unenforced and unaudited and

:24:18.:24:22.

riddled, to be honest, deliberately, with loopholes. I would welcome any

:24:22.:24:26.

lobbying advice you have, and I would like advice on how to get this

:24:26.:24:30.

fixed, as I find it amazing that there are things we can do in the

:24:30.:24:35.

immediate short-term, like, for example, the UK government could

:24:35.:24:38.

strongly lobby the European agency to bring this to the European court

:24:38.:24:44.

of justice, to get this to be more transparent. But also, to have

:24:44.:24:47.

politicians making a clear statement that drug companies and researchers

:24:47.:24:53.

have to work harder on this. There is the statement, Grant Shapps, you

:24:53.:24:59.

can have that. Now, the part of the programme that makes things happen.

:24:59.:25:02.

If you run a major NHS trust at a time of unprecedented financial

:25:02.:25:06.

pressures, and you are worried about the physical fitness of your staff,

:25:06.:25:10.

you might want to help initiate an exercise campaign. But what do you

:25:10.:25:20.
:25:20.:25:52.

# Is this the Way to Amarillo... Was Superman was played by Phil Morley,

:25:52.:25:57.

the Chief Executive of Hull and East Yorkshire NHS Trust, and he has

:25:57.:26:02.

caused controversy with his office exercise campaign. Staff have been

:26:02.:26:07.

quoted as saying it was patronising and embarrassing. They found that he

:26:07.:26:13.

was out of touch, but how did they work that out? ! What is the most

:26:13.:26:20.

embarrassing thing you have done in public? Singing. I always seem. That

:26:20.:26:30.
:26:30.:26:31.

is what I do. On you go, carry on. No, please, I was singing along

:26:31.:26:41.
:26:41.:26:42.

earlier. You represent Islington, so you have that karaoke bar. I love

:26:42.:26:49.

karaoke, and I love that bar. myself have never done anything

:26:49.:26:59.
:26:59.:27:20.

embarrassing in public, I am sure of They have obviously got a copyleft.

:27:20.:27:28.

But you do that every time you leave the studio! I think that was one of

:27:28.:27:38.

our most senior producers. Anyway, just time to put you out of your

:27:38.:27:42.

misery, and find the answer to our guest the year competition. It was

:27:42.:27:48.

1974. The clue was the petrol queues, which meant it could have

:27:48.:27:54.

been 1979 as well, but there were other things in the film which

:27:54.:27:58.

showed it was 1974, a pretty miserable year, certainly if you

:27:58.:28:03.

were a political journalist, although there were two elections,

:28:03.:28:07.

one in February, and one in October. There was really no distinct outcome

:28:07.:28:13.

for either, but Labour ended up the largest party in both. Anything else

:28:13.:28:18.

you would like to know about 1974? No, but we would like to know who

:28:18.:28:27.

the winner is. If you just best that button... -- press that button.

:28:27.:28:33.

Robert Taggart in Cheshire. Congratulations. Thanks to all of

:28:33.:28:39.

our guests. The one o'clock News is starting over on BBC One. I am not

:28:39.:28:46.

here tomorrow, I have got to go to Prague. I am flying solo. Gyles

:28:46.:28:50.

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