Browse content similar to 05/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Universal credit is | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
slammed as over-ambitious and suffering from poor management. Will | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
the government still be able to deliver its flagship welfare reform? | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
David Cameron arrives at the G20 summit in Russia. They still sent a | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
car for him, but after last week's vote on Syria has Britain lost its | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
place at the top table? The man who helped deliver the Olympics says it | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
is time to take the politics out of building big infrastructure. We'll | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
ask him why. And can local councils cope with more cuts or are there | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
still too many foreign jollies and town hall fat cats? | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
We do not deal in caricature in this programme! All that coming up in the | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
next hour. With us for the duration Merrick | :01:29. | :01:36. | |
Cockell. He assures me he is no fat cat but he used to run Kensington | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
and Chelsea Council, the richest and poshest borough in the country, and | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
is now the chairman of the Local Government Association, which | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
represents councils in England and Wales. Welcome. Before we move on, | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
thousands of children have been starting at school this week but | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
there's been a warning that half of school districts will not have | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
enough primary school places in just two years' time. That warning has | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
come from the Local Government Association, the organisation that | :02:02. | :02:11. | |
Merrick chairs. Let's ask him. We are in a population bubble. There | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
has been a boom of children, babies turning into children about to go to | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
primary school, and that will work through the whole education system | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
so twice the demand is placed. Hardly a surprise. We saw it | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
coming. Why have we not allowed for it since it was obviously | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
predictable? We have been seen it coming through but have been waiting | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
for data. In the end it comes down to places. You know the population | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
overall is in this country but where will it be exactly? Then it is | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
parents applying for children in places and that is choice as well. | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
People do not always want to send their children to school where they | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
live. We have to work with the government to meet the demand. With | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
two years to go, is there time? A lot of councils and schools have | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
been taking action already. They lot of councils and schools have | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
have been converting play space and parts of buildings. Not necessarily | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
things they want to lose but they have been turning them into | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
classrooms. We are in a complicated world of education. The councils are | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
no longer responsible day to day for schools. There is a lot of freedom | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
for schools with free schools and academies, and as a result of that | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
we are seeing a problem of a lack of forward planning. That needs all of | :03:41. | :03:50. | |
us, particularly as the children move into primary, they will move | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
into secondary and we need a lot more secondary schools to deal with | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
that. Wasn't it you will party, the Conservative party, who took the | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
power away from local authorities? Yes, and the view of the Local | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
Government Association is we have a democratic mandate to represent | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
people locally and to understand the conditions locally. We need to be | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
able to work effectively with new schools and those that currently | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
exist. Michael Gove accepted our report very clearly yesterday I | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
think. As things stand at the moment, in two years time, if | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
nothing else was done, how many places would we be short of? | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
Theoretically, there will be half the number of places for new pupils | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
so it is significant. That bad.We saw a similar problem in London five | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
or six years ago and we dealt with it effectively. We will keep an eye | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
on it. Over-ambitious. Weak management. | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
Poor governance. These are just some of the charges facing Iain Duncan | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
Smith and the Department for Work and Pensions over the roll-out of | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
the new universal credit, or lack of it, in a highly critical report by | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
the National Audit Office. Labour is enjoying the government's problems. | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
They are calling it a Titanic sized IT disaster. Well, they know about | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
them. The universal credit is designed to combine six individual | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
benefits, including housing benefit, income support and working tax | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
credit, into one single monthly payment. Crucially it is meant to | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
encourage people to take up work by ensuring that they will always be | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
better off having a job than staying on benefits. The government wants to | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
see all claimants receiving the universal credit by 2017, and it had | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
originally planned to introduce it for all new claimants from next | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
month. But that has been dramatically scaled back to a series | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
of trials, and so far only about 1,000 people are receiving the | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
credit. The government has written off more than £34 million on new IT | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
systems for the project and big questions remain about how it will | :05:59. | :06:07. | |
be delivered. But the National Audit Office also said that universal | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
credit could well go on to achieve considerable benefits if the | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
department learns form these early setbacks. -- learns from these early | :06:12. | :06:21. | |
setbacks. Earlier Labour were granted an urgent question in the | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
Commons. Let's listen to what Iain Duncan Smith had to say. Every | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
National Audit Office recommendation has already been made. The key | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
lesson I take from this is this: That unlike the previous | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
government, who went and crashed one IT programme after another, no | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
government minister ever intervened to change them early so they | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
delivered on time, we are not doing that. I have taken action on this | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
particular programme. This programme will deliver on time and in budget. | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
We're joined now by Max Chay, director of the National Audit | :07:03. | :07:11. | |
Office. The Secretary of State says he recognises the criticisms in your | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
report but they are kind of historic now. He has dealt with them. He is | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
on track. The Department for Work and Pensions is revising its plans. | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
I don't think they have been finalised, checked over or approved. | :07:29. | :07:36. | |
We still think there are significant issues. What is the most significant | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
issue the government needs to address? We were concerned of the | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
lack of a detailed plan as to how universal credit would work. | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
Although there were clear objectives, it was not clear exactly | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
what services would be offered online, how online security would be | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
developed and the systems they would need. Didn't that surprise you? This | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
could be regarded as the biggest single change in welfare since this | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
country established the welfare state at the end of the Second World | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
War, that there is a lack of a plan? Certainly we found it very | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
surprising given the priority of this programme. We felt and over | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
ambitious timetable set at the beginning contributed to a lack of | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
clarity about the requirements needed. They had to develop the | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
policy requirements and some of the systems in tandem. Is it your | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
assessment that this can still be in place and universal by 2017? We | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
haven't seen the latest plans. In our report we raised very clearly | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
that there is a risk, by keeping the 2017 date but starting later, that | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
the roll-out will have to be quicker and that raises risks for claimants | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
and the administration. Thank and that raises risks for claimants | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
for joining us on the Daily Politics. | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
We invited a minister on to the programme - but our very polite | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
request was declined. He even said please! Instead we are joined by | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
Conservative MP, Charlie Elphicke, he sits on the Olympic Delivery | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Authority. With us too, is the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
Liam Byrne. He follows all this for Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
the Labour Party. The most important change in welfare in 60 years and | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
the NAS that you do not have a plan. -- the National audit of the. Iain | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
Duncan Smith thinks it is on time and budget and he has the man who | :09:37. | :09:45. | |
brought in the Olympics on time and on budget as well. But he has just | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
brought him in. Because a lot of things have not been done properly. | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
We have a Secretary of State that is clearly on the ball. As soon as he | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
realised there were problems, he did not allow the disaster to unfold, | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
hands on, change in management. We have just heard from the National | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Audit Office that they have yet to be convinced that it will be on time | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
and on budget. I think events will be convinced that it will be on time | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
speak for themselves. The Secretary of State is very hands-on and | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
confident. I am confident he will achieve his goal. You might be in | :10:23. | :10:33. | |
power by 2017. Because we have an election in between. Will you | :10:33. | :10:40. | |
continue to attempt to meet the 2017 deadline? We do not have enough | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
information on the table. On the table? We don't know frankly what is | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
going on inside universal credit because the Secretary of State has | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
led parliament up the garden path for most of the last two years. In | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
March he told us it is entirely on track. A month before, his own | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
appointee reset the project. Four track. A month before, his own | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
months before that they downgraded the number of people going on the | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
system next year by 80%. The quiet man has become the cover-up man and | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
what we saw this morning was one of the most invasive performances I | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
have ever seen from a minister in the House of Commons. We want this | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
to go well and that is why I said in the summer, let's have cross-party | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
talks so we can answer these questions. We will have to come to a | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
view on this for our manifesto. So as things stand is you do not know | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
if a Labour government would continue with a universal credit | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
reform? We want to but right now we cannot promise an answer to the | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
question you rightly ask because we have had cover-up after cover-up. | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
The question in Duncan Smith has been giving this morning is that | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
despite the National Audit Office report, he says it is all going | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
swimmingly, but the fact is, from next month, every new claimant was | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
meant to go on universal credit. They are not. And you only have 1000 | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
on a pilot programme with the simplest of claims that do not even | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
need any IT. Iain Duncan Smith thinks it is on track. But it is not | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
on track if new claimants are not going to participate as of next | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
month, which was the track! You are off that track. Iain Duncan Smith is | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
right to ensure this roll-out is successful. It is a big reform. The | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
right to ensure this roll-out is Labour Party has opposed universal | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
credit... He says he is in favour of it. We offered cross-party talks in | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
the summer. They voted against it in the Commons. They have opposed every | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
welfare reform, that's why they are the welfare party. Given that | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
universal credit is something that if it is to proceed will survive | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
many governments, why not sit down with the Labour Party and explain | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
the problems and how you intend to address them and they can then | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
inform themselves over how they would handle it if they come to | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
power? What would be wrong with that? Labour have opposed every | :13:26. | :13:34. | |
single welfare reform we have proposed. We supported universal | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
credit and you know that. This system right now is broken, it needs | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
fixing. Universal credit could be part of that answer. It is too big | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
to fail. But today the Secretary of State dropped the target of a | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
million people on the system by next year. He could not tell us how many | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
people would be on the system by the election. He is keeping the 2017 | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
date back to hit that he would have to move a quarter of a million | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
people every single month onto the system. That is a city almost the | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
size of Derby. Anyone as experienced as you are in the ways of Whitehall | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
knows that is a pretty tall order. It is but one that Iain Duncan Smith | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
is confident about. It had plenty of experiences from the disasters in IT | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
from the previous government. He did not close his eyes and hope it would | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
all be all right on the night. He has been hands on. He did close his | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
eyes because he told parliament in March it was all on track when he | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
knew himself that it wasn't because he had just appointed someone to | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
reset the project, in the words of the National Audit Office. Given | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
that you think this is the way forward and you would like it to | :14:52. | :15:04. | |
happen, assume whoever wins the next election, wouldn't there be an | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
interest in sitting down with Liam Byrne and going over what the | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
problems are and what you intend to do about them so he can inform | :15:09. | :15:10. | |
himself? together and talk these things | :15:10. | :15:25. | |
through from time to time. I rode together and talk these things | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
to Iain Duncan-Smith and said, I am worried about this. I had a | :15:31. | :15:39. | |
petulant letter back saying, get lost. We have had briefings on the | :15:39. | :15:50. | |
design and the principles. When we ask for basic information, like the | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
business case, we have to go through freedom of information | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
procedures to try and get it. At the end of the day they said, you | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
cannot have anything. That is not good enough. So far they have had | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
to write off 34 million in IT. That good enough. So far they have had | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
is the figure we know at the moment. They still claim it is on time and | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
on budget. Given that Labour managed to waste 13 billion on the | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
NHS IT system, why would anyone managed to waste 13 billion on the | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
have more confidence that you can do any better? We should establish | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
a degree of consensus across all sides of the house. As you say, | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
odds on there will be a change of Government at the next election. No, | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
you are saying that. I read the odds, just like you. We have got to | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
make sure that we go into the next parliament with our eyes wide open | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
and with a plan people can vote on. What is wrong with putting before | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
the British people a realistic, it What is wrong with putting before | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
informed plan for change? A petulant dismissal at cross-party | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
talks is not appropriate. Do you have a local Government view on | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
this. Yes, this is absolutely crucial. We have been talking about | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
our concerns about the over ambition of it. This is not just an | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
IT project. Part of the overt ambition was thinking people would | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
be able to go online themselves and access universal credit. We have | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
seen a change at the beginning of the year. We have seen the pilot | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
areas working with local authorities and they have to go | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
through the practicalities. That caution is wise because the chances | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
are that we have to make it work, because it is too important, but we | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
have to learn from the pilot areas and those 1000 people. Have you | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
learnt anything yet? Literally every day we see the figures and on | :17:58. | :18:06. | |
how it is working, so it has got to get working, but it has to happen | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
at a local level with partnerships between Government and the local | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
authorities. Come the election, the Government will have to be in | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
position to have convincing evidence it is on track. By then | :18:19. | :18:25. | |
they will be on a much better position. If you have only wrote it | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
out to a few other places, it will not happen in 2017. E Ian Duncan | :18:30. | :18:38. | |
Smith is confident it will. He has a team who knows what they are | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
doing. He his hands on. David Freud has also been on the ball working | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
with local authorities. We have got the right leadership team to see it | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
through. If it does look as if it is on track, we support it? Yes, if | :18:54. | :19:01. | |
it is on track. But we have not got that information on the table. | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
Charlie is more confident than I am. If the leadership of the Secretary | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
of State was so great, how has he ended up with a report like this | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
that is so damaging. You said something seems to be very wrong in | :19:19. | :19:25. | |
the mind Of the man at the helm of the Department of Work and Pensions. | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
What did you mean? What I said, I quoted a great delivery grew, Sir | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
Michael Barber, and he had a great phrase which is delivery is not a | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
set of activities, but a state of mind. I do not think it is a state | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
of mind at the Department of Work and Pensions and what they are | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
doing today is proof of that. Thank you both for being with us this | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
morning. The Prime Minister arrived you both for being with us this | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
an hour ago in Russia for the G20 summit. It will be dominated by | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
discussions of Syria. The host, Vladimir Putin, is opposed against | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
any military action against Bashar al-Assad. Mr Cameron may have am | :20:14. | :20:22. | |
meeting with him, but there will be no bilateral meeting with President | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
Obama. He will be meeting with the President of France who has | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
supported military action. Are we making too much of this? We always | :20:31. | :20:38. | |
like to pour over everything, the President is not seeing the Prime | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
Minister, is there a significance in this or not? So far as the | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
British-American relations are concerned, it will be disappointing | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
for David Cameron he is not having a separate meeting with President | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
Obama. But it is not as if they do not speak a lot on the telephone. | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
They have discussed things a lot, certainly in the build-up to the | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
parliamentary vote. That is disappointing and bad for him in | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
terms of how the British press will react well stocked inevitably it | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
looks like a snub if it is not intended as such. It is worse for | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
David Cameron, really because he he is at a summit which is supposed to | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
be about the economy, but will be dominated by discussions over Syria, | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
yet he is completely removed from the argument. His officials on the | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
plane were saying, we are going to be concentrating on banking and the | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
economy. He will not be a part of the big discussion about what | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
happens next in Syria. He is not here yet. The discussions will be | :21:43. | :21:52. | |
taking in the palace in the next half-an-hour or so in St Petersburg. | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
I glad -- I am glad you got there before him. OK, the British do not | :21:58. | :22:06. | |
matter that much on Syria. Are we clear what the American strategy | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
will be? President Obama is there to make friends and influence | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
people as he tears up to get Congress to back some kind of | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
attack on Syria. He will not get Vladimir Putin, so what does he | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
hoped to achieve at the G20 about Syria? It is about winning the | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
argument. Whether he wins an argument, and it is not going to be | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
a vote at the end of the G20 and people will make their views known, | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
but it is about winning an argument internationally. The Mexican | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
President was talking to the BBC recently and he had President Obama | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
on the telephone and he was apologising for what they had done | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
to the Mexicans. It is important for President Obama to do things | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
like this, to build relations with all the leaders here, so he now can | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
sit down and talk about Syria and say, are you on my side or are you | :23:02. | :23:09. | |
on Bashar al-Assad's side? Vladimir Putin will be saying the opposite. | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
We are joined by the former Defence Secretary Liam Fox and the four | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
Middle East secretary for the last Labour Government, Peter Hain. | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
Paddy Ashdown said last week's events had a profound implications | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
for our country and they diminish our Kapri hugely. Do you agree with | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
that? I do. Certainly in the short term the decision last week has | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
left the prime minister sidelined in any discussions about Syria at | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
the G20. It has given some pause for thought amongst our allies | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
about being able to deliver any promise that future British Prime | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
Ministers might make. There are serious questions week in | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
Parliament have to reflect upon about how the events of last week | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
are interpreted internationally. How did you vote? I voted in favour | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
of intervention. Do you agree with Paddy Ashdown? I agreed that the | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
Prime Minister should never put himself in a position where he can | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
be humiliated on a fundamental policy matter. He tried to bounce | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
Parliament and they would not be bounced. Should he have foreseen | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
that? We had a debate and I was part of moving the motion on 11th | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
July when the House voted on a backbench motion on a Thursday | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
afternoon by 114-1 with 39 Tory MPs saying effectively the Government's | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
policy was wrong. At the root of this I believe this is one of the | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
most monumental policy failures in recent times. What we should have | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
been doing is making sure we had negotiations on track, instead of | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
posture rising over regime change and arming the rebels and finally | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
military strikes. How did you vote? By was not there, I could not get | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
back on time. I would have voted for the Labour amendment. Is it in | :25:11. | :25:19. | |
our power to get negotiations? As I have been following this there have | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
been huge attempts to get negotiations and they have failed | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
because neither the Russians Bernard President Assad have much | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
interest in negotiation. President Assad thinks he is winning. We have | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
to get perspective about what we can actually do in the internal | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
dynamics in the civil war in Syria. There is a limit to what we can do | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
diplomatically. We have put a lot of effort into trying to get | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
diplomatic activity going. But if all the parties involved in the | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
civil war do not want to negotiate with one another, what chance is | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
there? It is always the opposition, whether it is his or yours, we must | :26:02. | :26:09. | |
try and get more negotiating, but sometimes when you are in power you | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
cannot get it. You try to negotiate the Iranians out of a nuclear bomb. | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
That did not happen. What makes you think that President Assad will | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
negotiate at all? First of all, I am not a pacifist. I was behind the | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
action in Kosovo. I was behind intervention in Syria and I was in | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
the Cabinet that took the decision to invade Iraq. This is a civil war. | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
It is Sunni versa Shea, Russia versus America, and President Assad, | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
like it or not, is backed by nearly 40% of the population. They do not | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
like him, but fear the alternative. This is a very complex civil war | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
and I do not accept negotiations have been pursued vigorously by | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
either side. The do not think it has been pursued? Obviously they | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
have not been pursued by either side in the civil war, but your | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
criticism is the British Government has not done that? I think it has | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
been pursuing the wrong policy, first regime change and then arming | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
the rebels. What has it not done? We should have said to the | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
opposition, we are not going to are We should have said to the | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
me and we are not going to demand regime change, we should have said | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
you come to the table and come with a plan for a local negotiated | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
ceasefire, a nominating ministers you want to serve in the new | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
Government, and accept that President Assad's ministers will | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
also serve in that Government. We have not been doing that. It is | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
incredibly difficult, but we know from Northern Ireland and other | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
parts of the world weather have been conflicts like this, it is the | :28:01. | :28:09. | |
only way forward. The last time I was in Northern Ireland it was | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
British sovereign territory. Why should the Islamic side of the | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
rebels listened to us? We are members of the Security Council and | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
we are members of a number of other international institutions, | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
including NATO. It would be a disaster if last Thursday's vote | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
was taken as a sign of British isolation. We should be more active | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
on the international agenda. If you look around the world, in America | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
this issue has been used as a partisan issue. Government against | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
opposition. The same seemed to be happening yesterday in France and | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
it is happening in the UK. It is very dangerous in a deeply | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
interconnected world where the security problems over there can be | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
here very quickly, for politicians to use these issues as party | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
political footballs. One of the reasons Parliament voted the way it | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
did and why public opinion is that as it is in Britain, is that people | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
have yet to be convinced of as it is in Britain, is that people | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
supporting what seems like a futile gesture. The debate in Washington | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
at the moment is about how few missiles President Obama needs to | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
send. This is not a debate about regime changed or about invasion or | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
about bringing people to the table. It is a debate about, I said a red | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
line should not be crossed, so I should do something about it. Why | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
should we not support the Americans? There is a big issue | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
about the use of chemical weapons. Americans? There is a big issue | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
We were all horrified by the pictures on our television screens. | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
The difficulty is getting the judgment right in terms of military | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
action between sending a signal to the regime about our ability to | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
degrade its command and control, and doing it to an extent that it | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
changes the dynamic of the civil war. No-one in Washington is | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
talking about that. President Obama is digging up what he might do, to | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
try and get more people to back him. When he talks about this it is | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
limited, narrow, targeted, a futile gesture if you won to use the old | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
Peter Cook Joe, time for a futile gesture, or it is no more than a | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
slap on the wrist. The difficulty, and where Parliament | :30:31. | :30:52. | |
wanted more debate, is what happens if we sent a signal and they do it | :30:52. | :31:02. | |
again. That is a genuine worry. The problem of this approach all along | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
and I fear it is the problem of President Obama's posturing is what | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
comes next? With there be retaliation and escalation? Yes, | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
chemical weapons are abhorrent, but they account for only 1% of all the | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
casualties in this war for Syrian conflict, so you are not dealing | :31:25. | :31:40. | |
with the 99%. If the international community sends out a signal that it | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
is not willing to act in the face of what was a blatant use of chemical | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
weapons against a civilian population, surely the risk is that | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
others will do it again and that will be on our conscience. The | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
Labour Party cheer led the election of President Obama and his | :31:59. | :32:10. | |
re-election. You were huge supporters of the victory of | :32:10. | :32:18. | |
Francois Hollande in France. And yet if you had a vote in Congress next | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
week on the existing motion, you would be voting against President | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
Obama. I would and that is very disappointing but I think he and the | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
French president have gone down the wrong track. The opposition leader, | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
the president of the opposition last year in Syria, resigned because he | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
could not get agreement about the different groups, to pursue exactly | :32:43. | :32:49. | |
the negotiating strategy that I am suggesting could make progress in | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
this negotiation, so that is where we should be focusing. Do the Local | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
Government Association have a policy on Serie A? We do not, the views are | :32:58. | :33:15. | |
mine! -- policy on Serie -- Syria. The case was not made effectively in | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
Parliament and in a wider every year. What surprised me, Peter | :33:19. | :33:27. | |
referred to being one of the five members permanently of the UN | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
security council and a world leadership role that comes with that | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
was hardly mentioned at all. If there is further action, maybe that | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
argument, that we have a responsibility that goes with being | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
at the centre of the UN, might be part of a further debate. He was | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
from Scotland have just joined us from Holyrood's questions. I had | :33:50. | :34:03. | |
better give you the first reply. Hang on, my grandfather was | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
Scottish! But you can't do the accent! A lot of people said that Mr | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
Cameron just didn't make the case. Even if that were true, there was a | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
promise of a second vote. We could have taken the time. We would have | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
then have the announcement of President Obama going to Congress, | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
we would have then seen what the French are doing. Now the Prime | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
Minister has been sent into negotiations with no hand to play | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
and that is bad for the United Kingdom. We will see how it goes. | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
Thank you. Traffic jams, airport delays, now power cuts are being | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
talked about. Britain has been rated just 24th in the world for the state | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
of its infrastructure and a report today suggests it is partly | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
short-term thinking by politicians that's to blame. Labour commissioned | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
John Armitt, who chaired the Olympic Delivery Authority, to look at | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
what's going wrong and he's published his report today. This | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
morning he joined Ed Balls touring the Crossrail site in central | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
London, Europe's largest construction project, which is | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
delivering a new railway for London and the South East. The Shadow | :35:10. | :35:19. | |
Chancellor said that for decades successive governments had been at | :35:19. | :35:26. | |
fault. We can't let the future down. The Olympics shows we can make | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
these decisions and deliver them and I hope that all parties will work | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
together to implement this important report and make sure that we can do | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
the big infrastructure projects, which will deliver the jobs, | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
infrastructure and prosperity that our economy needs in decades to | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
come. And the chair of Labour's infrastructure review, John Armitt, | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
is here with me now. A 10-year plan? ! Why not a great leap forward? It | :35:54. | :36:01. | |
is actually a 25 to 30 year plan. What I have said is that it is | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
is actually a 25 to 30 year plan. absolutely critical that we address | :36:04. | :36:11. | |
the long-term. Our infrastructure is the bedrock of our society. It is | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
what enables all of us to lead a civilised life, it is what underpins | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
business in this country and it is civilised life, it is what underpins | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
critical we get it right but we can't get it right if we | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
flip-flopped backwards and forwards. But we still may get it wrong in a | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
long-term view because politicians and their advisers are notoriously | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
bad at predicting the future. For and their advisers are notoriously | :36:34. | :36:41. | |
example, many people think the case for the HS2 line, the second | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
high-speed line, is a 20th century one. That high-speed trains were | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
20th century technology. The French and Spanish and German state it but | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
in the 21st-century of holograph communications, it is totally out of | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
date! -- the French and Spanish and Germans did it. There is a greater | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
growth of high-speed rail across the world than there has ever been so | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
the world is not abandoning it. The French and Spanish have cut it back. | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
Because they have built a lot. It is not about speed, it is about | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
capacity. The whole idea of what I am suggesting is that we give | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
politicians the very best analysed evidence, which is the role of the | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
commission. The commission does not make the decision, the commission | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
gives the politicians the evidence on which Parliament can vote, in | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
principle for 25 years. We then take a central view. You bring those | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
plans back to parliament and a vote on them and then you have a | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
coalition of political support to go forward and do things. What about | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
those who would be opposed to some of the big infrastructure things? | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
There is always opposition to something big. A lot of people are | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
against a third runway at Heathrow and another airport in east London, | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
and fracking. Where would they fit in? Their voices would be heard by | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
the commission when it pulled together its evidence and made its | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
assessments on the options and solutions. I am not proposing that | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
we ignore our climate change obligations. I am not proposing we | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
ignore the voice of local government, the voice of the people | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
with alternative views, but at the end somebody has to make a decision. | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
You cannot say we will not make a decision because we do have | :38:47. | :38:55. | |
opposition. We had half of Kent in uproar when we did the first | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
high-speed line. But after debating it and talking to everybody, the | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
decision was made. Everybody had the opportunity to talk about different | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
decision was made. Everybody had the routes but at the end of the day, we | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
have to choose one. We need to speed up infrastructure and we need, I | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
think in your report, John, you talk about a succession of large projects | :39:18. | :39:27. | |
so investors can see a succession of good returning schemes coming in. | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
But it is absolutely right that we cannot lose the voice of local | :39:32. | :39:40. | |
people. Some may call them nimbies but they have a right to be heard | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
and to be taken seriously. Even with HS2, the campaigns against it have | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
improved the project already, so there is a positive role, not just a | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
representational role, for a voice at a local level. | :39:56. | :40:12. | |
wise people taking decisions for the longer term up of which the | :40:12. | :40:13. | |
politicians will rubber-stamp or longer term up of which the | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
vote against it? I do not. If people object and they take the wrong | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
decisions, people put them out of object and they take the wrong | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
office. Wise men and women in white will not the answer to this. I am | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
trying to get the best evidence in front of politicians. This is not | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
taking democratic debate out of the process but it is making sure that | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
process takes place against a very balanced and well thought through | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
set of assessments. That is what politicians need. Good evidence to | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
make decisions on. Politicians on the left and the right already love | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
make decisions on. Politicians on big projects. Whereas smaller things | :40:55. | :41:03. | |
that need to be down, improving some of our secondary roads, improving | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
some of our existing railway lines, improving some of our existing | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
airports, that is in danger of being crowded out for the big prestige | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
project that people like Tony Blair and David Cameron and Ed Miliband | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
can put their names too. Successful infrastructure is not just about the | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
projects, it is about making the best out of what we have got. It is | :41:28. | :41:35. | |
about encouraging you and me to use less electricity, not just to keep | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
using more. Could prices are going all the time! If you are now in | :41:39. | :41:49. | |
charge of it, should we build HS2? My personal opinion I believe we | :41:49. | :42:00. | |
should. Should we build a third runway at Heathrow? I am on the | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
commission so I cannot comment on that but it has been fascinating | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
listening to the different arguments for and against, about capacity, and | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
different airlines even have different views. That depends on | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
whether or not you have a lot of slots at Heathrow! When will you | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
report on that? Preliminary report is this December. The final report | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
is after the next election. Should we be having a dash for gas, | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
fracking? We should understand the potential for fracking and then make | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
judgements about what it can do for this country and the impacts before | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
making a final decision. Although people are right to be sceptical | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
about politicians decisions -- their ability to take long-term decisions, | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
people will think there is sense to sit down and identify what the big | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
infrastructure things we will need in the next decade? Absolutely, we | :43:00. | :43:09. | |
are beginning to see problems with insufficient power in parts of the | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
country outside London and that cannot be done overnight. Fracking | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
is another way of generating energy. These are long-term problems that | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
need to be solved. If we turn our back on this now we will have very | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
serious problems in 20 years that will undermine the economy | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
potentially. There is an understanding we have to work | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
together to work out the priorities and take some of these decisions and | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
get a move on. I have seen it done at Hinkley point and other places | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
like that, where whether those decisions are right and wrong, if we | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
do not take them, our capital city would and major cities will have a | :43:51. | :43:59. | |
real problem. Can you do a bit more because you have lots of land that | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
is not currently being used? We have lots of land on which we are | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
building. We build as fast as the planning regime will allow us to | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
build. You telling me for every piece of land you have planning | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
permission you are building on? I piece of land you have planning | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
certainly am. Planning consent drives us to construction and that | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
is the problem with housing and supply in this country. We need more | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
opportunity for supply. You have done this for Ed Miliband and Ed | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
Balls, but would it not be worth also at least going to the | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
government to get their reaction? I rang Paul Dighton yesterday and told | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
him what I would be sailing and I would be delighted if the government | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
showed some interest in this -- what I would be saying. Credit to | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
Berkeley homes, they continued building through the recession, but | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
there are 400,000 homes with planning permission with no shovels | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
on the ground yet. In the end it is down to money. Shall we give you a | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
shovel on the way out? Thank you very much. | :45:10. | :45:21. | |
Town and city halls are looking at how they will manage funding | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
Town and city halls are looking at because of cuts from the Government. | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
They all say they have had to shoulder an unfair share of the | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
austerity budget. Has local Government been shaken out of | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
financial complacency or has it been squeezed until the pips | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
squeak? In the offices of Hammersmith and | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
squeak? Fulham Council in London they offer | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
the services we come to expect from local Government. But unusually in | :45:49. | :45:56. | |
the face of cuts to their grant from central Government, up | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
residence in neighbouring Kensington and Chelsea and in | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
Westminster are very often dealing with the same staff in a server | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
sharing plan they call the tri- borough partnership. It has been a | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
success. Sharing back-office services and training departments | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
together makes a considerable contribution to the overall target | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
without it becoming apparent on the streets. Three wealthy, a | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
neighbouring, all Conservative councils. A unique partnership or | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
one that could work elsewhere? Other councils are looking at | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
policies of this kind. Some of them have got joint chief executives and | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
many more could work together in this way. Radical ideas on how | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
council's empty our bins and how they provide health and social care | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
for adults and the elderly, have been the order of the day across | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
the UK as the Government tries to tidy the nation's finances. But | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
there is a growing sense councils of all political colours have cut | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
as much as they can. We cannot continue to make efficiency savings | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
because that will not go the way of meeting the savings in finance we | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
have to make. We are going to have to stop doing things and that is | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
the reality that is going to be faced by local Government. Local | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
Government has made more than its fair share a contribution towards | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
the reductions. But that cannot go on for ever and it cannot go on in | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
a sort of cheese-paring fashion that we have become used to. People | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
in white or know that deep in their hearts. You cannot go on doing this | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
for ever, but for the moment they cannot think of a way of stopping | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
it. What makes it more difficult is it is not just about the money from | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
central Government that affects it is not just about the money from | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
local Government costs. We looked at Eric Pickles's' 50 suggested | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
savings and there is nothing in that for us at all. Much of it we | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
had in place. But our costs keep going up and here in Birmingham the | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
demographics are that we have a growing elderly population. It is | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
an increased demand on adult care services and those adult care | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
services have to be paid for and Government are not recognising that. | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
There are two things local authorities seem to agree on. They | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
dislike lectures or deficiency from a Whitehall that struggles to do it | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
themselves and the solution is one the Government will not like, and | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
greater local tax-raising powers. Do not expect that in any national | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
manifesto soon. We have got Sir Merrick Cockell, of | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
manifesto soon. the Local Government Association. | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
Are you expecting local authorities to make more cuts and savings? | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
Local Government makes up a huge part of the Public Sector spend. We | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
think local Government has done it really well so far, but there is | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
more a work we can do. The work of the tri-borough partnership is a | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
good example. There is more that we can save and more areas can learn | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
great lessons. Great councils are doing it and being innovative for | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
the benefit of residence and the taxpayer. You are asking local | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
Government to make more savings than you are demanded of your own | :49:31. | :49:37. | |
central Government? We have saved around 40% ourselves, so we | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
practise what we preach. Local Government makes up around 25% of | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
Government spending. It is not about savings, it is about | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
efficiency. It is about making sure we collect all the council tax will | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
stop it is cracking down on that as well as being innovative. You have | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
got so many departments and so many well as being innovative. You have | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
ministers that the Cabinet table has had to be extended so they can | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
sit around it. We have practised what we preach, we have cut our | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
costs by 40% and we will be continuing to make sure that local | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
costs by 40% and we will be councils have the tools to make | :50:18. | :50:24. | |
innovations and savings. Next year there will be £100 million a year | :50:24. | :50:31. | |
to encourage councils, to share management and share services, to | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
bring the public sector together and have a better service for | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
residents. He has mentioned the three boroughs in London, | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
Hammersmith, Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster, who came together | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
to share back-office functions. Far more than back office. Has that | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
resulted in substantial savings? Yes, we are still on target to save | :50:54. | :51:01. | |
about £50 million a year by the end of the year 2015-2016. So he is | :51:01. | :51:08. | |
right? The difficulty is we have already taken 42% cut in our grant | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
from central Government. We have already taken 42% cut in our grant | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
had a one-year 10% reduction implemented, in a couple of years' | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
time, which turns out to be about 15%. I have looked at the tri- | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
borough figures. They will have to save another 50 million. Simply | :51:28. | :51:35. | |
being at the very forefront of integration and working together is | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
not sufficient. The fact is we have run out of money and the system is | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
bust. I think we run this country a bit like we did when we had an | :51:44. | :51:51. | |
empire. We have a Government department budgets run in silos | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
right the way down to almost local level decisions being taken and | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
signed off by permanent secretaries will stop we have to change the | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
system. We have got a lot of change to do, but Government has got a lot | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
of change to do. We have to move it from the parent-child relationship | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
of Government. We get our figures a from the parent-child relationship | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
few months before each financial year. We have to move to a more | :52:19. | :52:25. | |
mature grown-up way. We should be negotiating the full term of | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
funding for that Government and ministers should say, you have | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
agreed the bottom line, you sort out the differentiation between the | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
growth areas of London and the other parts of the country and the | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
most needy parts. It is not our problem any more. But we have all | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
got to make a big change, we cannot carry on as we are. We are simply | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
running out of money. What do you say to that? He is right, try | :52:51. | :52:58. | |
borough has shown what can be done by integrating local authorities. | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
We are now rolling it out around the country. Independent reports | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
say that will save 20 billion and give better service. But when local | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
Government says they are running out of money, that is when they | :53:13. | :53:20. | |
have had money added to their reserves, so they have got money | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
there. They need to use it to their ability to encourage businesses | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
into the areas and then we can see a flourishing economy and a strong | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
into the areas and then we can see future for local Government as well. | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
If you are claiming to have no money, why do you have £19 billion | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
of reserves? I have never understood when central Government | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
has money available that is a success and when local Government | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
has, it is surplus money. Part of the problem is because we are am | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
clear about our future funding system. A cut of 15% Leeds to | :53:55. | :54:03. | |
uncertainty. We do not know how much money we will have. We do not | :54:03. | :54:10. | |
have a choice of borrowing money. Uncertainty leads to caution and | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
caution leads to holding money in reserves because you do not know | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
whether there is money available. Why are you adding to Europe | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
reserves? Because it is even more uncertain. The cut of 10% has | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
turned into 15%. It is unnecessary. If we had the relationship I talked | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
about earlier, we would be less cautious and we would have less | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
reserves. The local governments are adding to their reserves because | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
they are prudent. He blamed the last Government for not building | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
the Rupert when the sun was shining. You are blaming them for not | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
building the roof even when it is raining. It is not sensible and I | :54:52. | :54:58. | |
do not think viewers today will understand the council saying, we | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
are short of money and why they are putting away 19 billion N1 region. | :55:03. | :55:14. | |
The main thing is to be more innovative, to be more effective | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
and for residents to change their councils and to challenge them and | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
asked them why they are not being more innovative. They have to look | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
at other councils who are working across the public sector and making | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
savings and giving better services for all of us to enjoy. There is no | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
chance this Government will agree to local authorities having new | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
revenue-raising powers? We have worked very hard to freeze the | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
council tax in the last few years and that this time we want to make | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
sure residence understand this Government wants to do what they | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
can for hard-working, council tax payers and keep it low and get good | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
services. He wanted a municipal bond market of the type they had in | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
the United States. You are not going to get that either a. It | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
these bonds were defaulted, the Government would have to step in. | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
We have been operating under Prudential borrowing for a long | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
time. We have been looking at the Scandinavian model. There is a | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
market out there that the city once that we at a local level could use. | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
But if Liverpool or Manchester or Glasgow defaults...? Where is the | :56:34. | :56:41. | |
record of default? Local councils meet their budget every year. We | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
would not be allowed to borrow on highly risky projects. We want the | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
same sort of freedom that is perfectly normal in other countries. | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
We do not require a change in the law. We are going ahead to offer | :56:54. | :57:02. | |
some competition to the Treasury. The would you like to see a | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
municipal bond market? Our tax payers, the residents who elect the | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
councils, want to see councils providing the goods services they | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
do. We want to make sure we keep council tax low. Residents do not | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
want to see any kind of local tax that puts the council tax up. | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
Municipal bonds, not council tax. Have we got news for you? Cancer | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
and used to be precise. We are talking local politics. We all like | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
to moan about our local council. Bins, pot holes, foxes, and if we | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
could we would blame them about the weather. Here are some local | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
headlines and we are going to put Sir Merrick Cockell to the test. | :57:51. | :58:03. | |
Is it double yellow lines? Yes, over a dead hedgehog. John Humphrys | :58:03. | :58:31. | |
has had his what ruin? A double yellow line? You are one of my | :58:31. | :58:45. | |
residence. I was trying to work out whether John Humphrys was as well. | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
Thank you to all of our guests. The One o'clock News is starting over | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
on BBC One. I will be here at noon tomorrow with all the big, | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
political stories of the day. Join me then. Goodbye. | :59:00. | :59:02. |