Browse content similar to 06/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, this is the Daily Politics. Our top stories today: | :00:40. | :00:48. | |
World leaders gathered in St Petersburg to argue whether Syria | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
with Russia saying the US military strike would drive another nail into | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
the coffin of international law. We will have the latest on the | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
international talks and get the latest from Westminster, Paris and | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
Brussels. We report on the Battle of | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
Westminster e-mail newsletters as top political hacks go toted toe | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
armed with a humble laptop. And Australians go to the polls | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
tomorrow after a general election chock full of gaffes. | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
No one, however smart, however well educated, however experienced is the | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
suppository of all wisdom. You would have to have a heart of | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
stone not to laugh! All of that for the next hour. For the next | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
half-hour, the editor of prospect magazine, Bronwen Maddox. We will | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
discuss the latest from the G20 meeting in St Petersburg in a | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
moment. First, Tony Blair. He has given an interview to BBC Four about | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
the crisis. He said there was no doubt the debate was hugely | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
influenced by what happened in Iraq. I said we had to support action in | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
Syria before the vote and I said after the vote I was disappointed by | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
it. This is something where I have to disagree with the leadership of | :02:22. | :02:29. | |
the party. I know it is a difficult position for political leaders to be | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
put in when they have to take decisions like this but my position | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
on these issues is pretty clear over a long period of time. You can hear | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
on these issues is pretty clear over more on what he said on Syria and | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
what it means for Britain. That will be broadcast on Monday at 8pm on BBC | :02:45. | :02:55. | |
Four. He has his own distinct position on these matters, but would | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
it be true to say there are quite a few doubts in the Labour Party about | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
the position Labour has found itself in now? I think that is right. I | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
think Tony Blair is being a bit unfair to Ed Miliband, if that is | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
possible, by saying the Labour leader had taken a firm position | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
against military action. Whereas Ed Miliband was careful to say I am not | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
backing it at this point on the evidence that has been given which | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
is why I am voting against this, but I am not ruling it out completely. | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
This has hardened up as the debate has gone on and people have taken | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
the view that Labour is against it. Quite a few MPs have said we do not | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
want to be boxed into that position, we want them to say we do back this | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
is the evidence improves. Is he probably right that if it had all | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
gone swimmingly in Iraq after the invasion, even if weapons were not | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
found, as they were not, but it had turned into a kind of North | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
Islington democracy blooming in the desert, then the country's attitude | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
would be different? Is he right? I am sure he is right. Even if you set | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
aside questions of whether it was legal or not, success for a lot of | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
people validates difficult decisions. The fact is it was not | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
just a mess, and a mess where a lot of people got killed, mainly | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
Iraqis, but one which shows errors of judgement from Western countries. | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
That is what people are recalling from. It is the carnage of the | :04:28. | :04:36. | |
aftermath. A sense that we could control it and then the realisation | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
that we could not. Interesting. So, the G20, are meeting in St | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
Petersburg. Although it is meant to be a forum | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
for discussing the world economy, it has been comprehensively | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
overshadowed by Syria. The world leaders discussed the crisis over | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
caviar and blini last night for dinner. That seems to have confirmed | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
the split for major powers. Russia has said a US strike would drive | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
another nail into the coffin of international law. Although | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
President Putin says he does not rule out any military action through | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
the UN, nobody really believes him. The Americans certainly do not. They | :05:17. | :05:24. | |
do not think he does all credible. They have accused Russia of | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
continuing to hold the UN security Council hostage. What of written? | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
The effects of the decision not to intervene are still being felt. | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
David Cameron said those who opposed military action would have to live | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
with the way they voted. He also announced that the UK would have to | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
give an extra £52 million in humanitarian aid for Syria, some of | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
which would go to help Syrians targeted by chemical attacks. And | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
amid accusations that Britain has been sidelined in St Petersburg, a | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
senior Russian aid has been quoted as saying it is just a small island, | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
no one pays any attention to them. Comments the Russians have denied. | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
Let's hear what George Osborne had Comments the Russians have denied. | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
to say about this this morning. The House of Commons has made its | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
view clear at that military action in response to chemical weapons. I | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
am happy with the way I cast my vote. People who cast their vote a | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
different way have to account for that. Britain is today leading | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
efforts to step up the humanitarian response to what is happening in | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
Syria, the tragedy of 2 million people leaving that country, fleeing | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
for their lives. I'm joined from Paris by Emma | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
Suleiman, whose is a spokesperson for one of the main Syrian | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
opposition groups. We spoke on the day that Parliament was debating | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
whether or not we should be part of any military intervention or attack | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
on Syria, we now know the results. Are you disappointed that Britain | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
will not be part of any military attack on the Assad regime? Of | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
course we are very disappointed today. We were hoping for Britain to | :07:06. | :07:19. | |
stand by the whole and go for severe action against Assad and here I have | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
to highlight that this is a strike to end the war, not to start a new | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
war. What we felt actually was the discussion at the Parliament was | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
more about Iraq 2003, not Syria 2013. I think there is a | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
misconception about the Syria case here. I believe Syria here is more | :07:43. | :07:53. | |
like Bosnia's case where there is an urgent need for humanitarian | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
intervention and to end this conflict. All right. But the | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
British, can I just interrupted and ask another question, the British | :08:03. | :08:12. | |
have voted no. There was no agreement in St Petersburg. And it | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
is by no means a foregone conclusion that Mr Obama will get his majority | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
in Congress. And even Francois Hollande is not risking a vote in | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
the National Assembly that would bind him. It is possible, is it not, | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
that there will be no attack as Mac yes, it is very possible. If there | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
is no attack we will not see an end to the daily misery that we live. | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
Assad continues to abuse his people. And he did not stop, by the way, he | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
trusts that Russia will continue to do his diplomacy and continue to | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
lobbying to secure that Assad stays in power. As long as Assad believes | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
he is going to win, he is going to continue. Nothing suggests that | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
diplomacy so far had forced Assad or forced him to accept a dialogue or a | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
compromise unfortunately. Today, if doing nothing, if the West or of the | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
international community do not do anything, not only will Assad | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
continue to kill his own people and destabilise Syria, also there is | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
complete chaos where we see extremist elements are imposing on | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
the liberated zones and we do not see any real support for the | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
Democrats. Don't get me wrong, Britain on the other side has been | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
providing vital assistance on the humanitarian, political and | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
diplomatic side, but that is not enough. Emma Suleiman, good to talk | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
to you again, thank you for joining us. We are joined by the Times | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
to you again, thank you for joining journalist, soon-to-be Conservative | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
peer, Danny Finkelstein. And in Birmingham by the shadow Europe | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
Minister Emma Reynolds. Wasn't there a time when the Labour Party stood | :10:09. | :10:15. | |
to help people like Emma Suleiman, and now you are not? Let me be | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
clear, the Labour Party condemns the violence that we have seen in Syria | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
over the last few years and we stand by part of the international | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
community in wanting to see an end to the Assad regime. What we were | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
voting on last week was a call for evidence to be produced, the 4-wheel | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
make any decision about military action. That is something that | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
Labour MPs but also Conservative MPs and Lib Dems MPs voted on. Are you | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
happy with the evidence from American intelligence, German | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
intelligence, the evidence that is open source, British intelligence | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
intelligence, the evidence that is now from Porton down. Do you have | :11:00. | :11:08. | |
enough evidence to continue? The UN weapons inspectors are still to | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
produce their report. It is worth pointing out that at the end of that | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
debate last week, although Britain did not rule out military action in | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
principle, it was the Prime Minister and the government after the vote | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
that took that option off the table. Is there any doubt in your mind that | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
the Assad regime used chemical weapons against its own people? We | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
were asked to vote on this last week when the UN weapons inspectors were | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
still in Syria. I am asking you this on Friday morning, is there any | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
doubt in your mind? We have not seen the report 's yet. So there is | :11:46. | :11:54. | |
doubt? There is a possibility and it is very likely that it was chemical | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
weapons but we did not have any evidence of that when we voted last | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
Thursday. Quite a lot of evidence is still being presented and you are | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
saying it is only possible that he used chemical weapons. What more do | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
saying it is only possible that he you need? What difference would it | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
make? Supposing it is proved be on doubt that he used chemical | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
weapons, what difference would it make to your policy? We were clear | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
last week that there would have to be evidence before making this | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
decision, that any decision regarding military action should be | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
taken. David Cameron chose to recall Parliament early last week. I am | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
sorry, that is nothing to do with the question I have asked. I have | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
asked you that even if it is shown beyond doubt that chemical weapons | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
have been used, how would that change Labour policy? We are not in | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
that place now because David Cameron stood up in the British Parliament | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
last week and gave his word to the British people that the UK would not | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
use military force in Syria. All right, you are not answering the | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
question. Don't go away, I will try with another question later. Let me | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
bring Danny Finkelstein in at the moment. Why did Mr Cameron, almost | :13:12. | :13:20. | |
in a fit of pique after he lost the vote, pick up the toys and run out | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
of Parliament? Should he not say, I get it now? If events change and if | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
chemical weapons were used again, if the weapons -- evidence is | :13:32. | :13:40. | |
overwhelming, say I will be back? He cannot act without the support of | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
the Labour Party because there are a lot of rebels and Liberal Democrat | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
rebels. I think he perfectly concluded that the Labour Party | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
would not support action. I was listening their very carefully. We | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
still do not know whether or not when the evidence is there, and all | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
of us know really what did happen, even if when the formal evidence is | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
presented, we do not know whether Labour will support action. Even if | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
he does not know, surely it makes sense, that even if he knows he | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
cannot square Labour on this matter, that if more evidence comes, if | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
there are developments, if Mr Assad uses chemical weapons again, he is | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
going back. Why did he tie his hands? It is a very difficult | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
medical cult elation. He could have left it open. I think he realised he | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
could only get a majority with Labour's support. He does not want | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
to be like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the ball, continually running | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
up, only for Ed Miliband to pull the ball away. Like there is in the | :14:43. | :14:51. | |
Conservative party, Labour is split on the question of action. Ed | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Miliband will probably lead in a different way and decide to ask more | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
questions, rather than act. You do not want to be in that position | :14:59. | :15:07. | |
forever. Do you agree with this political calculation. Do you agree | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
that he should say, if events warrant it, I should come back? I | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
think he made the right decision. He does not have a majority in his own | :15:19. | :15:27. | |
party. If chemical weapons are used to, what would be the policy of | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
labour? We have to judge what happens and the evidence, but we are | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
in a difficult position now. The discussion you have just had in the | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
studio suggest David Cameron was not obliged to say what he did say at | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
the end of the debate last week, but he has said that. We are in that | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
situation. I am asking what your policy would be. I ask because we | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
have been briefed Labour would only change its policy if there were | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
significant changes and the examples we were given of the record by a | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Labour aid was if Al-Qaeda got position of large stockpiles of | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
chemical weapons or if there was a direct threat to the National | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
security of Britain. I ask the question because these conditions do | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
not include Assad using chemical weapons against. So I ask you, what | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
would Labour 's policy be if chemical weapons are used again? | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
Given what happened last week, there would have to be a substantial | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
change in the situation in Syria and those examples have been given, | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
particularly if Al-Qaeda gets its hands on chemical weapons and starts | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
using those. I have got that, it is a simple question. Not necessarily a | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
simple answer, I understand that, or is it a yes or no? If chemical | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
weapons used again, would Labour change its mind? You said you would | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
if Al-Qaeda got chemical weapons, would you change your mind if Mr | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
Assad used chemical weapons against? The government are not | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
going to bring that back to Parliament. I am asking about Labour | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
policy. The sensible way forward would be if the conditions change | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
that the Prime Minister and Ed Miliband, and there have been | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
difficult days in the last week, but it is still in the national interest | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
for those leaders to come together to discuss things if the -- if the | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
situation changes. Thank you for joining us from Birmingham. Do you | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
situation changes. Thank you for get the feeling both the main | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
parties have got themselves into a mess? This is fascinating and the | :17:39. | :17:46. | |
politics is so bad. The political decision on both sides, starting | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
with David Cameron, he did not have to have a vote and he ignored the | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan, get the evidence clear. But having | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
lost the vote, he did not have too boxed himself in. But Labour | :17:58. | :18:05. | |
producing two QA extra justifications for how it makes | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
change its position and Al-Qaeda is a very special case, why bring that | :18:08. | :18:16. | |
up? Why not go for the obvious one, supposing Assad uses them again? | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
Both should leave open the route to taking action and not too boxed | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
themselves in. If Assad uses chemical weapons. Where would the | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
government be, where would this country be if he uses chemical | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
weapons against? The Prime Minister is in favour of using action to deal | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
with the situation now. The people who oppose that have got to explain | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
whether they would change their mind in different circumstances. If I was | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
Assad listening to this right now, I could use them again when ever I | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
want. You have to use a sober judgement as to whether what we | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
heard from Emma constituted real question is always just a way of | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
putting off deciding on action. I think Labour would not support | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
action and until that position changes, the Prime Minister cannot | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
act. That is not the fault of labour but a lot of Conservatives will | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
not. You said, what more evidence do you want? I want to know who | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
directed those weapons, is it Assad or the generals, is it a regime we | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
are dealing with? That is harder to answer. | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
Who do you think sets the daily news agenda here at Westminster? The | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
Prime Minister? As if! The editor of the Today programme? He wishes. Now | :19:36. | :19:48. | |
you are talking! A lot of the day's big stories are shaped by a series | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
of emails sent out by a handful of influential journalists to their | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
subscribers. And competition is stiff to be the most influential of | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
all. Here is Adam with the latest in our series: | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
it is seven o'clock and the deputy editor of the Telegraph has already | :20:03. | :20:12. | |
been up for two hours scanning the papers for gems he can put into his | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
daily digests. When I used to work as a | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
correspondence, they used to wish I had a crash course of what is around | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
in the papers so I could sound more informed than I was. So when I | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
started doing this e-mail, I gave my colleagues something useful to allow | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
them a short cut to the things that really matter. He is helped by a | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
colleague in the office who -- in the office who has been not only. | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
Then applies the finishing touches as he takes his daughter to school, | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
mainly on the top deck of the boss. That is because it to show bit of | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
news happens at ten past eight, the big interview on the Today | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
programme. At 8:30am, the e-mail is off to subscribers. The number is | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
secret, but it is in five figures and includes very influential | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
people. There are a lot of meetings early in Westminster and a crucial | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
one is the 8:30am Downing Street meeting and my aim is to get it to | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
people in time for that meeting so the people in number ten get to read | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
it before they sit with the Prime Minister and discuss what is going | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
on. At the same time, Paul Waugh of Politics Home has been trying to | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
reach the same website with The Waugh Room, he he claims to have | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
introduced the daily e-mail to British politics. It is not free and | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
there is friendly competition. We have software telling us who | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
receives the e-mail and where they are and whether they read it or not | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
and how much they read. For the moment, a big majority of them open | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
it every day and read it. That could moment, a big majority of them open | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
change because it is a fickle market. Have you a bigger open rate | :22:00. | :22:09. | |
for Paul Waugh? He works as hard as me and he produces an excellent | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
e-mail. Each morning, Westminster is bombarded with e-mails attempting to | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
set the agenda. This is from Conservative home, and others from | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
elsewhere. At the other end of the Conservative home, and others from | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
day, the Spectator magazine is getting in on the burgeoning evening | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
market with an e-mail written I Isabel Hardman who has noticed a new | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
trend. People are keen to get the verdict so the Tories would be keen | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
to say, obviously, Prime Minister 's questions was a win for us, and you | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
can mention this in the e-mail. And there is an enthusiasm for putting | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
stories in briefing because people read it and if they have something | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
that will not wait until tomorrow, they can get it out and people will | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
take it home. Newspapers have always picked themselves up but this seems | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
like a new breed of super commentator. Where is my spam | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
folder? ! Adam Fleming reporting. And we have | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
been joined by Paul Waugh, editor of the website Politics Home, who is | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
also in on the political email game. His offering is called The Waugh | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Room. Get it? ! You have got your His offering is called The Waugh | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
website, Politics Home, Ben has got his newspaper, why do you toil to | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
send out these e-mails? It is a lot of work and we get up very early. To | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
beat Ben Brogan, even have to get up very early! Have you got a slave | :23:39. | :23:46. | |
like him? I do not, we submit a separate e-mail and everything in my | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
e-mail is written by me. The reason people read it, people at number | :23:49. | :23:59. | |
ten, and the media, this because it is political intelligence in both | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
senses. It is early, direct, simple to open. Is it because we are lazy | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
and cannot we -- and cannot be bothered reading the papers? It is, | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
but the Internet does not work unless you make life easier and that | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
is the point. On your readership, by the way, do you have a higher | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
opening rate of e-mails? We have a very high rate, about 90%. We did a | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
survey recently. The point is that they sign up to our e-mails and they | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
pay for it and you will open it if you pay for it. But then, it is | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
free. It is £1 50 per week, virtually nothing! That is quite a | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
what. Less than a Cup of coffee.You are right! Among your readership, | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
what kind of addresses have you got? Dave at number ten? Read Ed at | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
Highgate? We have them all, the Prime Minister once said, thank God | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
for your morning -- for your morning memos, I find out what is going on. | :25:00. | :25:07. | |
A lot of MPs say the same thing and they like it because they are going | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
beyond the medium we things. So are people trying to influence what you | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
put in that because it is a way of getting to these people? Absolutely, | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
like any kind of journalism. Isabel is right, there is a spin war going | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
on and I get text messages from all sides. The smarter ministers know | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
what to drop gently because it is a sides. The smarter ministers know | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
mixture of gossip and a summary. So they are becoming quite powerful? | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
Yes. I am launching one next week called, so what, what next? What is | :25:38. | :25:45. | |
that going to be about? It will give you a verdict and it will tell you | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
what happens next. A verdict of what has happened in the day. Will you | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
make money or is it just a service? We are very commercial. Is that a | :25:54. | :26:02. | |
yes? That is a yes.We are now getting e-mails in the morning and | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
e-mails telling us what happened in the day and that drove the story | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
forward to the next day, what next? We have exhausted the time frame | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
because we get morning e-mails. Sometimes a week evening. This comes | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
from the United States, in America, you often have to see the future in | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
politics. It is powerful, and e-mail, it is an incredibly powerful | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
tool for getting a message. I read The Waugh Room and Ben Brogan. I | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
will have no time to read the newspapers! That is the aim!Not | :26:37. | :26:44. | |
good news for newspapers! Now, are you craving a bit more | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
back-stabbing to your politics? Or perhaps you are after one or two | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
more sexist gaffes? Well, look no further than our dear friends Down | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
Under, who are currently gripped in election fever, ahead of a general | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
election tomorrow. On the one hand, Australians can opt for current | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd from the Labour Party. He is the one who was | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
ousted by Julia Gillard before the 2010 election, and then got his own | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
back in June this year when her forced her out. And on the other | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
hand, there is the frontrunner and gaffe-connoisseur Tony Abbott. Are | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
you still following me? He heads the Liberal Party and has a lead in the | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
polls, thanks to tough policies on asylum and a promise to repeal | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
Labor's carbon tax. But it is not both men's policies that have been | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
dominating the campaign. Here is a round-up. | :27:28. | :27:39. | |
No one, however smart, however well-educated, however experienced, | :27:39. | :27:48. | |
is the suppository of always done. -- of all wisdom. He has given you a | :27:48. | :27:56. | |
few tips? I have taken them on board and some days I have my hair just | :27:56. | :28:05. | |
highlight -- just how I like it. They are younger, they are feisty, I | :28:05. | :28:14. | |
can probably say with a bit of sex appeal. Do you want to know who to | :28:14. | :28:23. | |
vote for? I am the guy with a not bad looking daughters. -- the knot. | :28:23. | :28:33. | |
This is the election of 2013 in Australia, not 1813! And we have | :28:33. | :28:42. | |
been joined in the studio by Jason Groves, President of Australian | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
Liberals Abroad, and from Sydney by John McTernan, who used to work for | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
Tony Blair and then worked for the former Australian PM Julia Gillard. | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
Jason, you are 10,000 miles away and about 40 years behind the rest of | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
the world when it comes to women. No, the idea that any party reader | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
led by somebody who is anti-women could be successful in modern-day | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
Australia... May be just patronising and stuck in the 1950s! The | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
difference between Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard is he | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
is a real person, a real Australian and somebody Australians warmed to | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
with all of his expressions. People do not understand what they have got | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
with Kevin Rudd, it is a confected image. We have a delay, but let's | :29:32. | :29:38. | |
see how it goes. Given that Tony Abbott has been pretty prone to | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
gaffes in this campaign and in previous years, why does it look as | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
if the party -- why does it look as if Labor will lose by quite a what? | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
I think the Labor Party damaged itself a great deal. They were neck | :29:55. | :30:05. | |
and neck with the Liberal party in the polls and Julia Gillard was by | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
far the preferred Prime Minister. All the way through, the most | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
difficult time she had had, all the focus groups said they liked Julia | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
because she was clever. They wanted a smart Prime Minister. They have | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
always had a hovering question about Tony Abbott's character. There is a | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
streak of aggression in him and there is that extraordinary | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
patronising, condescending, sexist tone which has let out during the | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
campaign. If we had had a good run tone which has let out during the | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
at it when we did, Julia beat Abbott soundly as preferred Prime Minister | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
but this year there was too much noise and too much internal politics | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
in the party. Other than the problems which the Labour Party has | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
faced, which would be huge given the number of times they have changed | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
their leader, if Mr Rabbitte does win and all the polls suggest he | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
will win, what other than the Labor Party will have one it for him -- is | :31:03. | :31:12. | |
Mr Abbott does win. The last six years have been a series of | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
fiascoes. Not just the leadership with Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
but the squandering of a uniquely good set of circumstances which they | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
inherited from Howard. The carbon tax, the mining tax, the free money | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
giveaways, the ways they have mismanaged every type of reform is | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
about patents in and restoring the government to Australia. John | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
McTernan, I understand the bookies say it is a 98% chance that Tony | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
Abbott will win. What will happen to the Labor Party if it goes into | :31:50. | :31:59. | |
opposition? There is one oddity about this election which is Tony | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
Abbott, if he does become Prime Minister, he will have a government | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
term, maybe two terms defined by the Labor Party. He will either be | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
trying to repeal what they did with the carbon tax and he is omitted to | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
implementing Julia Gillard's education reform and her disability | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
care package. In a funny kind of way, he comes in with no policies of | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
his own, apart from one which is resented by his backbench and hated | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
by business which is a big tax on business to pay a very generous | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
paternity leave. The Labor Party in opposition will have to do what a | :32:39. | :32:48. | |
good party in opposition does which is decide why it lost the election, | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
agree quickly that they will take it on the chin from the public and then | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
start to hold the government to some scrutiny. We have not got too much | :32:57. | :33:04. | |
time so I had to bring Bronwen Maddox in. What is the significance | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
of a Conservative victory in Australia? I think this is a serious | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
election. Underneath all the personalities and jokes. It is about | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
a kind of economic unease which has been a couple of decades of strong | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
enviable informants but this has turned into an election about living | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
standards, worry about what will happen to Australians, a very | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
resource rich economy. These worries are there. It is not just about | :33:34. | :33:41. | |
1-party sniping at another, it is about the future of the country and | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
people saying very clearly, we are worried. Is Mr Abbott wins, what is | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
the first important thing that he will do? Repealing the carbon tax is | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
one thing he will do. This has stifled investment in Australia and | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
cost a lot of jobs. It has had a big impact on how businesses can grow. | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
Talking to people here I have run impact on how businesses can grow. | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
into a couple of people who have moved to London because they could | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
not get jobs in their chosen field in Australia. Australians are always | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
moving to London, including yourself! I will be up watching the | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
results come in. It will be interesting to see, even if it is a | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
foregone conclusion. Coming up in a moment, it is our monthly look at | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
foregone conclusion. Coming up in a what is going on in European | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
politics. For now, it is time to say goodbye to all of our guests, | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
including Bronwen Maddox. For the next half hour we will be focusing | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
on Europe. We will be discussing Greece, the eurozone reaction to the | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
crisis in Syria and the role of the European Court of Justice. Here is | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
our guide to the latest from Europe in just 60 seconds. | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
A European Parliamentary committee held hearings on US fugitive Edward | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
Snowden's allegations that America's NSA had spied on European | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
institutions. MEPs do work to make work. | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
They voted to tackle unemployment, create jobs and tackle movement of | :35:11. | :35:21. | |
workers. Spanish relations in Gibraltar are tense than the Armada. | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
Are unlawful actions and threats against Gibraltar are unacceptable. | :35:26. | :35:36. | |
The European Parliament calls for a European defence force under | :35:36. | :35:42. | |
European command. And 15 million were gripped by a TV duel as German | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
Chancellor Angela Merkel traded blows over tax and spying with her | :35:48. | :35:56. | |
rival. Most said it was a dead heat, both claimed victory. | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
With us for the next 30 minutes I have enjoyed by two MEPs, Syed | :36:03. | :36:13. | |
Kamall add Richard Howitt. The German election campaign, is | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
Angela Merkel gets re-elected, what would be the significance of that | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
for the rest of Europe? It might see the rest of Europe read out after | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
holding their breath for a long time. So much has been, let's see | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
how German domestic opinion comes down, don't frighten the domestic | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
opinion before the elections. I do hope the SDLP party will win. I | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
think they may well be in the coalition. That would be with Mrs | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
Merkel, it will be a grand coalition. It will be a traffic | :36:48. | :37:01. | |
light coalition. They are into that colours. If Pearce dined Brooke | :37:01. | :37:12. | |
comes in, they are they do need to see more stimulus, allow some slack | :37:12. | :37:21. | |
for recovery in Europe but also in Britain's interest as well. Mrs | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
Merkel's people have been talking about perhaps looking for a way to | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
get some repatriation of powers back from Brussels for all the major | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
European countries. I would suspect the Conservatives there are pretty | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
anxious to see Mrs Merkel re-elected and not hobbled in coalition with | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
the social Democrats who do not want to see a repatriation? Absolutely. | :37:44. | :37:52. | |
It has been positive that Mrs Merkel and Mr Cameron have found agreement. | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
They have found agreement on cutting the EU budget, including | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
repatriations powers back from Brussels stock that is why we would | :37:59. | :38:08. | |
like to see Mrs Merkel re-elected. Is it not surprising that in a | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
eurozone crisis, in a time of hardship and austerity for a lot of | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
Europeans, that the main centre-left party in Germany, the social | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
Democrats, should be doing so badly? When I looked it was only about | :38:21. | :38:28. | |
22%. If there is to be a left of centre coalition, a red Green | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
coalition, they are not far short of 50%. That is income edition. The | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
social Democrats are the German Labour Party, they are your | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
equivalent. Why would a left of centre party, relatively moderate | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
left of centre party, do so badly in times of economic difficulty? I | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
celebrate they are our partners, we work closely with them in the | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
European Parliament. There have been five successes elections in Germany, | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
each one of those has been won by the social Democrats. It has been | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
the best guide to how future federal actions come down. Yes, Merkel has | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
the lead at the moment but it is a actions come down. Yes, Merkel has | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
very soft lead. Let's see what happens. Indeed, let's see what | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
happens. MEPs discuss the prospects of the | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
eurozone with the president of the Euro Group. Latest figures from the | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
European Central Bank suggest the outlook for the eurozone this year | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
has improved a bit. It improved by 0.3% in the second quarter. Not a | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
huge amount, but more than was expected. There are concerns that | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
some countries will still need further financial assistance. Since | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
2010, European leaders have committed 500 Elidh new rows in | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
bailout funds to Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Cyprus. -- 500, | :39:52. | :40:06. | |
euros. Now there is talk of a possible bailout for Greece again. | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
The International Monetary Fund estimates that Athens will need 11 | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
billion euros for new financing on top of what has already been agreed. | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
Speaking to MEPs, European President Jeroen Dijsselbloem said Greece | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
would definitely need more help next year. It is clear that despite | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
recent row Gres, Greece's troubles will not have been completely | :40:33. | :40:40. | |
resolved by 2014. It is realistic to assume that additional support will | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
be needed beyond the programme. In this context, the Euro Group has | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
indicated clearly that it is committed to providing adequate | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
support to Greece, during the current programme and beyond, until | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
it has regained market access. We are now joined by the financial | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
commentator Louise Cooper. Another bailout, seems to be on the cards | :41:05. | :41:14. | |
which will upset a lot of people. The break-up of the eurozone, the | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
exit of Greece, all of that seems to be on the table. There are a couple | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
of things which have happened. First of all, we have a new boss at the | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
European Central Bank, marry draggy. Under him the European Central Bank | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
is more political, very different from the previous boss. The second | :41:34. | :41:44. | |
thing is the prospects for the whole of the eurozone has been | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
significantly improving over the last few months. The combination of | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
those things is we are no longer expecting the eurozone to implode. | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
What are the politics then of Greece getting another bailout? If Greece | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
gets another bailout, won't others come back for another bailout? | :42:02. | :42:13. | |
Exactly. To be honest, 11 billion euros is tiny. Markets are | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
completely ignoring it. It is nothing we did not know. It is | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
almost irrelevant. But today we are already seeing reports that Ireland | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
is saying, you know what, we would like a 10 billion or 11 billion, two | :42:28. | :42:38. | |
credit line to help us of. Portugal expects the same as well. Do we know | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
what the Greeks have done with their bailout? It is interesting when you | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
ask them, they say we have implemented several measures. Greece | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
is basically a very sick patient and all we seem to be doing is providing | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
a very expensive sticking plaster rather than solving the fundamental | :43:01. | :43:09. | |
problem. One solution is to exit and the other solution which would be a | :43:09. | :43:17. | |
psychological blow would be for the country to leave the euro, the other | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
solution is that there will have to be fiscal transfers, money from the | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
rich countries to the poor to keep it together. We have not done | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
either. Until then we will apply expensive sticking plaster. We have | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
heard from Louise and we know from the market is not going to implode. | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
I am not saying it will be easy. See Greece has done nothing, I do not | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
defend parts mistakes in Greece -- past mistakes in Greece. It has had | :43:46. | :43:53. | |
the biggest fiscal retrenchment of any country in history. Public | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
service cuts, tax increases, has that austerity message worked? No, | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
it has had the biggest GDP reduction, three years, 12%. You go | :44:04. | :44:12. | |
to Greece, you see prostitution, UC suicides shooting up. The idea that | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
they have done nothing, I am afraid you have got to open up your eyes | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
and see it. This is going to be a bailout that written will not pay a | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
penny for in the eurozone, yet British businesses and British jobs | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
are going to be supported by that taking place. Why should we be | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
against it? Europe may not be sliding into further recession. The | :44:35. | :44:43. | |
eurozone may slide in intact. Would I be right in thinking there will be | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
eurozone may slide in intact. Would a long slow painful recovery and if | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
you are young and unemployed in Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, it | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
will be a long time before you get a job? Absolutely. The damage done to | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
the Greek economy cannot be underestimated. We are talking about | :45:03. | :45:11. | |
Greece, it is getting slightly better, but the economy is still | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
contracting. Second quarter GDP figures, the Greek economy | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
contracted by 3.8%. A quarter of the rate? That is a year-on-year rate. | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
You compare that to the first quarter of 2012. Still disappearing | :45:29. | :45:36. | |
but Dave smaller rate? Yes, it is still contracting but not | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
contracting quite as fast. It is decelerating. It is not great, it is | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
not getting worse, it is marginally improving, but the Greek economy has | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
some substantial challenges yet and the process is incredibly slow, | :45:50. | :45:57. | |
because of the political problems, both in Greece and across the euro. | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
That is the problem. The process is so slow that it takes time. They are | :46:02. | :46:11. | |
in budget surplus. What is holding them back is the debt, otherwise I | :46:11. | :46:18. | |
agree. The debt is the problem, 11 billion bailout is irrelevant, the | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
big picture is Greece still has enormous debt. It has accumulated | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
national debt. It had 100 billion euros of debt reduction and it needs | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
another at that is politically of the table. Is the conclusion not | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
just for Greece, but would it not be fair to say the prognosis for the | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
Eurozone in the years ahead, the next two, three, five years, is not | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
depression but pretty much stagnation? It is pretty much | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
stagnation. If you look at any successful currency union, what you | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
have, whether it be sterling in the UK or dollars in the United States, | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
you have a situation where the rich part pay for the poor parts. When I | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
talk to my German political friends, they say they know eventually, they | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
will have to pay by fiscal transfers. I could not say that by | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
the election -- before the election, and they say, why should we pay when | :47:19. | :47:28. | |
we have tightened our ballot -- our belt and the Greeks have not? Thank | :47:28. | :47:35. | |
you, we will see what happens. World leaders, meeting at the G20 in | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
Syria, have been unable to reach agreement on what to do about Syria. | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
And there is a similar diversity of views at the European Parliament. Jo | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
Coburn has been in Brussels, gauging the range of opinions. | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
100,000 people have been killed so far in the Syrian conflict. | :47:48. | :47:49. | |
100,000 people have been killed so Diplomatic efforts to end the | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
bloodshed have failed but images of people choking to death after a | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
chemical attack on a suburb of Damascus was a game changer. It | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
crossed the red line drawn by the US President and a military strike | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
against the Assad regime seems imminent. The only European country | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
likely to join forces is France. The pressure on the Assad government and | :48:10. | :48:16. | |
the decision of Assad and this dictator is very important. If we do | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
not have any threats, there is no way to change his mind. In the UK, | :48:19. | :48:31. | |
it has been a different story, after MPs rejected any British military | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
action against Syria. Even the principal of intervention was voted | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
down, with blame on all sides. The Prime Minister ruled out a further | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
vote. Some MEPs believe that may have to change. If there is another | :48:44. | :48:51. | |
vote for another reason, another atrocity or say more pressure from | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
our allies or whatever, I suspect atrocity or say more pressure from | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
the vote would go through. I am not, I know the Prime Minister has | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
said, but I would not say never to these sorts of things. We have to | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
keep all options open. The capital cities in Europe seem a long way | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
from the crisis in the Syria and while politicians have been | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
agonising about taking political action against the Assad regime, the | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
public is broadly sceptical about another war in the Middle East which | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
they fear could make things worse. If an intervention takes place, | :49:24. | :49:31. | |
especially an attack against the Syrian army, it will not lead us to | :49:31. | :49:41. | |
any solution of this humanitarian tragedy. The European Union has been | :49:41. | :49:49. | |
notably quiet Syria, more involved in the crisis in Egypt's. Some | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
believe that is the wrong approach and want the leaders in Europe to | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
play a more prominent role. I believe the high representative and | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
others have been remarkably quiet and I do not think that is an | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
appropriate response in light of the urgency that the international | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
community is facing with chemical weapons being used, with the | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
humanitarian disaster growing every day and with the global discussion | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
about how to end the killing of the people in Syria and how to enter | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
that war. The prospect of increasing numbers of Syrian refugees arriving | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
at the Borders of Europe may demand a clear response from the EU. 2 | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
million people have fled and true macro. But politicians in Brussels | :50:31. | :50:44. | |
are divided. -- 2 million people have fled Syria. It is impossible | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
for Assad to use aeroplanes, helicopters and even missiles to | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
launch his weapons and his chemical weapons in particular. Syria has | :50:54. | :51:00. | |
dominated discussions, with world leaders gathered in St Petersburg | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
for the G20 summit. Finding a solution will take much longer. | :51:04. | :51:11. | |
European countries have taken positions on Syria, France, written | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
notably. But there has been no European Union view on it. -- | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
Britain notably. I do not agree with it. Our representative, our high | :51:24. | :51:31. | |
representative has spoken out. She spoke this week, last week. What is | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
her policy? Her job is not to tell member states where they do not | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
agree, this has to be the position whether you like it or not. This is | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
where the Eurosceptic mindset is challenged. What is the European | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
Union policy towards Syria after the chemical attack? Working for a | :51:52. | :52:00. | |
political solution. £1 billion of humanitarian assistance, and a third | :52:00. | :52:07. | |
comes directly from Britain. That is fantastic and it is essential, and | :52:07. | :52:13. | |
the people need it. But it is not a foreign policy. It is part of a | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
foreign policy. And there is discussion this week in Brussels | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
about whether distributing masks to protect from chemical weapon | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
attacks... That is not a foreign policy. That is very worthwhile but | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
it is not a foreign policy, so I ask again, what is the European... I | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
cannot detect a united European... There cannot be one, it even the | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
countries are not united. I am quite surprised. You are arguing there is | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
a united European foreign policy and that seems to me that you are | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
arguing night is day and day is night. In France and Britain cannot | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
agree, there is not one. There is not one unless Foreign Minister is | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
agree and they do not. So there is not one! Let's compare this to the | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
position on Iraq or where Europe was split down the middle. There was no | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
foreign policy for Europe that time. Britain and France appear to have | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
changed sides in terms of military intervention but there are strong | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
voices, Germany itself, who are not prepared to sit by while attacks | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
take place and I believe that Europe will be part of the solution | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
internationally trying to build the consensus so we can get action to | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
change. We heard a Dutch MEP criticise the European Union and the | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
high representative Catherine Ashton for not doing enough. How can Europe | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
act as a united body of Europe is clearly not united itself on the | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
issue? There are huge divisions over what the response should be. You | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
have hit the nail on the head, what power does Europe have? We are going | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
to spend a lot of time and we spent a lot of time this week in Brussels | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
and next week intro -- and next week in Strasberg talking about this, but | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
we have no power when it comes to this. Assad will not be sitting in | :54:14. | :54:21. | |
Damascus play scheme in his boot waiting for -- sitting in Damascus | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
quaking in his boot waiting for the European Union to make its decision. | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
It is quite right it is left to member states, particularly ones | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
It is quite right it is left to with military capability. | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
Time now for the latest in our guide to the A-Z of Europe. Adam has been | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
to Luxembourg to visit the European Court of Justice. | :54:40. | :54:51. | |
This is how justice is served EU style. We are about to watch a | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
judgement delivered in the European Court of Justice. Airing in mind | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
this is not a European court of human rights that | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
this is not a European court of hate, this is a different | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
organisation in a different city, doing a different thing. This place | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
deals with European union organisations, countries and | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
companies who are accused taking the rules of the EU. Last year, they | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
passed judgement on whether airlines rules of the EU. Last year, they | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
should pay compensation if passengers are delayed, if people | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
from outside the EU are entitled to housing benefit, and most often the | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
response to national courts who have asked for clarification of any EU | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
response to national courts who have law. This case has been heard by a | :55:36. | :55:41. | |
panel of 15 judges, sometimes they're less depending on how | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
complicated it is. There is one judge from each member said -- each | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
member state, serving terms of six years, and they have a legal | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
background. Sitting on the sidelines, a role British courts do | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
not have, and advocate general. There are eight of them and this is | :55:58. | :56:06. | |
Britain 's, her job is to analyse cases and suggest what the court | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
might do. People find it easier to understand what the court is saying | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
and the reasoning behind the understand what the court is saying | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
thinking of the court if they have an advocate general 's opinion which | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
gives more back around and set the scene, explains what the options | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
were that the court had to consider. And then you might go one way or the | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
other. Secondly, most supreme courts, when they are dealing with a | :56:31. | :56:38. | |
case, have the benefit of judgements that have been given by the courts | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
below. With this court, many of the cases that come to ours are cases | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
that come straight here. Christie -- critics of the justices over the | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
years excuse -- accuse them of expanding pe you by stealth even if | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
they are not elected, but they say judges at home are not elected | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
either. Personally, I am amazed how much the building looks like | :57:03. | :57:04. | |
either. Personally, I am amazed how boutique hotel! This is a big place, | :57:04. | :57:11. | |
doing a big job. There are 600 new cases lodged here every year and in | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
the league table of which countries and up here most, the UK is near the | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
bottom. Not a squeaky-clean as the Feeney but not accused of being | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
naughty as often as France. And it is definitely not the European Court | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
naughty as often as France. And it of human rights! -- not a | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
squeaky-clean as Slovenia. Yes, it is based in Luxembourg. It | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
is not as controversial as the European Court in Strasberg. The | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
problem is to make sure people can play to a ruling. So when France is | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
fined over British beef, France have still not paid that and that is part | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
of the problem. When I did a question to the commission asking | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
when France would pay their final, they ignored it. But by and large, | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
people do follow the rulings. As they should. Tory Eurosceptics who | :58:06. | :58:12. | |
deliberately confuse people between the courts just want to slam the | :58:12. | :58:19. | |
whole thing. But we won the case on the beef ban, David Cameron is | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
saying over Gibraltar we will take a case, and in my view Ron glee, -- | :58:23. | :58:32. | |
incorrectly, quite happy to use the court when it is in the interests of | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
Britain, but to go to the Eurosceptic press... You are off on | :58:35. | :58:43. | |
a party political tirade! It is a political programme! Thank you. That | :58:43. | :58:49. | |
is all for today. Thanks to my guests Syed Kamall and Richard | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
Howitt. Bye-bye. | :58:51. | :58:56. |