Conference Special Daily Politics

Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The weather in

Brighton's rather unremarkable, unlike the Labour conference, which

is turning into rather a stormy affair. Mainly because of a former

spin doctor and a certain book he'd like to sell. But fear not my policy

wonks, there is substance to the event too. In fact it's been hard to

keep Mr Miliband quiet. He's been keen to take centre stage - or at

least centre table - to announce he'd reverse the so-called bedroom

tax, he's been offering child care sweeteners and a brand new

apprenticeship scheme. Today the Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls will be

taking the limelight, fleshing out the party's economic policy. Let's

hope his strategy for the country is better than his footballing skills.

Should it be move over Balls, come back Darling? Adam's been putting

the "who should be Shadow Chancellor conundrum" to the mood box test. Who

would you rather hang out with? Ed conundrum" to the mood box test. Who

Balls. He is just so hunky! And we'll have you spinning in your

armchairs till you're dizzy with not one but two former spin doctors on

the programme. Messrs Campbell and Wheelan. It could get ugly!

All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the whole programme

today we've got two top economists - the financial analyst, Louise Cooper

and Ann Pettifor who was one of the few economists to forsee the

economic crisis. She's in her prime. Welcome to you both. So it's

Labour's annual big bash, time for the party to put a little bit of

flesh to its bones, so to speak, and the party Leader Ed Miliband has

been busy making a series of major policy announcements. First came

confirmation that Labour would scrap what it calls the bedroom tax - a

housing benefit cut for people living in social housing with spare

bedrooms. Mr Miliband's also promised all parents of primary

school children guaranteed access to childcare through their school from

8am to 6pm. And he wants big firms to train up an apprentice every time

they bring in a worker from outside the EU. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls

is also getting in on the act, pledging to increase free childcare

for three and four-year-olds of working parents from the current 15

hours to 25 hours a week. But how much will all this cost and how will

the party pay for it all? The Conservatives claim Labour's now

made almost £28 billion of unfunded spending commitments. Ed Balls'

answer to this is that he wants the Office for Budget Responsibility to

scrutinise all Labour's tax and spending plans before the election.

It's Labour making itself vulnerable to the charge that it is a tax and

spend party again? I think it is, actually. It is engaged in petty

politics, it seems, and salami slice economic 's. A bit of this and a bit

of that. Childcare here, tax increases there, where is the

wreath, I would ask. We want the big picture, the big story, we want

hope. Instead, what we are getting is these slices of economic policy,

which don't add up. They are not part of a big vision. I have to say,

I don't agree with the need to actually finance childcare with tax

rises. We can do it by increasing economic activity. In particular,

jobs and employment. That is what Labour is there to do. But they are

going to tell us they're not good to do what they did in the past. All

political parties have to get used to the fact there is no money

around, they have to tighten their belts, and make sure they stay

within a tight financial straitjacket. But that is not what

it seems. Of course, politicians love to announce grandly and loudly

their plans for spending. What you rarely hear that transfer how

they're going to finance it. That is my key criticism of what they are

doing now. You give us your plans, we want to know how you will fund

them. Remember, the deficit-cutting continues for many, many years. In

2015 to 2016, which is what we're talking about, what we are still

expecting to have a 90 billion deficit. So we are still spending 19

Ilium more than we are getting in taxation. -- 90 billion. So it is

not like that will be a year of plenty. Ed Balls will announce 25

hours of free childcare, and he will finance it by taxing the banks, but

I put this to you. George Osborne has already been doing it. He has

increased the rank levy because he's not getting as much as he says he

wants out of it. Financial services are in decline in this country now,

is there really scope to do it this way? To be honest, our economy is in

so much trouble, we can't really be taking more out of it than it is

capable of creating. So what is wrong with this is the idea that you

finance 1-piece with a bit of tax rises here, the way in which to fix

the budget deficit is to increase employment. We have 2.5 million

people in the country are unemployed, it is a mass and

employment situation, we had never lived with so much unemployment for

so long. There was 3 million unemployed in the 80s? For most of

the 80s. But it would deal with unemployment, the deficit will look

after itself. I wonder if he understands that if it takes 800

million out of the banks, it is that much of their capital, which given

that banks use leverage, banks will therefore be lending to the economy,

which is what petitions say, billions and billions less. If you

take money out of the banking sector, it cannot lend as much, that

is the maths. I wonder if he realises that. We will speak to his

spokesman Chris Leslie later. Earlier this morning Ed Balls was

interviewed on BBC Breakfast. Asked by Bill Turnbull whether he'd ever

been involved in the same kind of negative briefing as Damian McBride,

the Shadow Chancellor was keen to emphasise his new-found cuddly

credentials. That's not something I have ever done, it is the wrong way

to do politics. He says he has done those things, it was despicable, the

wrong thing to do. Critics is tough, and they have been times in the past

where I have had strong arguments with Tony Blair, with Gordon Brown

where I have had strong arguments on different issues, but I have

always done that in an open way. This kind of negative, nasty

briefing is wrong, but also, it's a thing of the past. That Iran is

gone, it is not how Ed Miliband and I are doing things in the Labour

Party is gone. -- that era is gone. We are in a better place now. We all

are nowadays! So are the Brownites and the

Blairites at war? Can they give it up and get proper jobs? Who better

to give us the mood of conference than a couple of tabloid hacks. I

should fire whoever called you that! The Mirror's Kevin Maguire and the

Sun's Emily Ashton. Welcome to you both. Kevin, what are they talking

about in the pubs and bars and lounges of Brighton? Quantitative

easing or Damian McBride? If you say that, it is more Damien Wright, but

actually there is surprisingly little, because that is at a level

for the people who come here, they take a week off work and pay their

own way. But there is some chatter around that, it is the recent past

but what they are talking about really is how terrible the Tories

are, you get a lot of that. Thank really is how terrible the Tories

you for that scoop! But it tells you something about the mindset, Andrew,

it is always looking at the Coalition, attacking them. As I

think coming some way behind is a discussion about where labour is,

the policies, the bedroom tax, but also that talk about Ed Miliband

two. At best, you will get people saying he has to do better. Do you

agree with that? I was in a bar last night... I can see! Everybody was

talking about McBride. There were a lot of MPs around, a lot of ex-MPs,

everybody was saying, and my name checked in the book? It is pure

gossip. But maybe this is an out there on the streets as much as the

cost of living prices, but the fact that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were

involved in this is actually an issue for real people as well as

journalists and MPs who are here. I am told that Gordon Brown has

descended and is on the conference -- at the conference. Is there any

chance he is good to say something about this? Absolutely, really, the

person who loses out most is Gordon Brown, who include Damian McBride,

and as he said, actually kind of knew who what was going on -- who

employed Damian McBride. If we fighting, I will ask him! I didn't

know he was here. But he can sometimes be elusive. You always

learn something when you are on the Daily Politics. Kevin mentioned that

a lot of Labour activists think Ed Miliband has to do better. Would I

a lot of Labour activists think Ed be right in thinking they may think

that even more after his interview with Andrew Marr yesterday, got

pretty bad reviews in the papers are even in the Labour papers? I think

this is all about showing that Ed even in the Labour papers? I think

Miliband can be prime minister, and I'm not sure he has put in flesh on

the bones, he talks about minimum wage, cracking down on employers who

don't pay it, and raising the minimum wage, but there is no detail

on those policies. Until he does that, you can't really take him

seriously as the next party leader in government. But it you think of

his performance yesterday? I wish I had watched it with my eyes closed,

he sits rather awkwardly, he keeps looking down, it's a visual medium

and if someone looks awkward on the looking down, it's a visual medium

TV, you think there aren't as are going to be awkward. I wasn't as

critical as many people, because there are signs of a manifesto and a

programme, and yes, there are chunks missing, we are 20 months from a

general election, it would be odd if you put the manifesto forward now.

But things like child care, the bedroom tax, the minimum wage is

important for many people who don't get it and want it enforced. He has

a long way to go, and he has too convinced the public that he has

what it takes to get into Downing Street and be a prime minister and

he keeps falling short on that. His poll ratings are poor, not as bad as

Nick Clegg 's. That's a pretty good yardstick! Emily, when he was

talking yesterday about the referendum on Europe, in or out, he

said, we have made our position very, very clear and then he added,

but we will make our position clear in the manifesto. That's eight, the

position is not clear and he is able to sit on the fence until he can see

where the wind is blowing and what the public wants. This is typical of

his leadership, I have to say. He comes up with these ideas but

doesn't actually put any flesh on the bones at all until the last

minute. David Cameron has promised a referendum in 2017 and it might be

difficult to renegotiate the relationship with Brussels in the

meantime but at least he has come up relationship with Brussels in the

with the proposal. Damian McBride is coming to the conference, he's going

to do an interview with Newsnight, coming to the conference, he's going

he will then be on the Daily Politics tomorrow. If he gets out!

Will he need a couple of minders? I think people want receiving well

because they will feel at this time, the Daily Mail, he shouldn't be

washing labour 's dirty linen in public. I admire his honesty but

maybe not his timing. Kevin, Emily, our new superb double act, I think

it was for the money! Go and enjoy yourselves. The question for

today's quiz, which of these is the only one that does not made Ed Balls

cry, at least as far as we know! The Antiques Roadshow, Bambi, American

sitcom titled his modern family, or the Sound Of Music? -- Modern Family

full stop now, what do you do if you are a former Labour spin doctor.

If you are Damian McBride, you write a salacious book about your years in

office and hope you get a lot of one go for it. If you are Alistair

Campbell, , you go running with Andy Burnham to raise awareness about

alcohol misuse. A pretty good subject for a party conference, I

can tell you! I interviewed him yesterday for the Sunday Politics,

and he so enjoy that he is back again for and two, but first, as a

special treat, let's talk to another famous spin doctor from the

Brown-Blair years. Yes, I speak of none other than Charlie Whelan,

there he is, smiling away in the gloom of Brighton! Welcome to the

Daily Politics. Good morning, it is very pleasant to be back in

Brighton. It is a pleasure to see you there. Alistair Campbell says

that you are evil, evil is the word he used! What do you make of that? I

that you are evil, evil is the word don't know, I just bumped into him

downstairs, we had a little chat to talk about his football team,

Burnley, not doing as well as my team, but he didn't say anything

like that. He did, he said it on Sky News! You would not say it to me,

because he knows how much I would defend you! I do not bother with

because he knows how much I would this kind of nonsense. People here

want to talk about jobs, living standards, the NHS, the minimum

wage. They are not interested in books by Damian McBride, Alistair

Campbell or anybody else, which is why I never wrote a book. I have got

bad news for you, I am interested! So I am going to keep on with the

questions. I notice Kevin Maguire said, will Damian McBride get a

welcome here? Most of the delegates will not recognising, they do not

know who he is. This is just stop for the media. I went into the press

room, and the media was talking about Damian McBride. I went into

the conference area to talk to delegates and a number of old

friends, and nobody mentioned him. The people are interested in jobs,

living standards and the NHS. They are not as brave as me, that is why

living standards and the NHS. They I am going to as the these

questions. Did you know that Damian McBride got up to this sort of thing

cause me as you probably know as a student of politics, when I worked

for Gordon Brown in opposition then for a few years at the Treasury, I

met Damian McBride, I never met him, he did not come onto the scene

until three years after I had left frontline politics. He was there

when you were political officer for Unite. He was indeed, yes. So did

you know that he was and the mining political careers of Labour

colleagues like John Reid, Charles Clarke? -- undermining. I am sure

John Reid and Charles Clarke could look after themselves! Andrew, I

know you are interested in this, but if you talk about Damian McBride, go

to Alistair Campbell, who was waiting for you. I don't want to

talk about it, and neither do delegates. People think you were a

forerunner for Damian McBride, that you were pretty tough on anybody

that got in Gordon Brown's way - is that true? I suppose I was from a

different era, most of the time I was working was in opposition, where

it is a hard fight to win an election, which is why both eggs are

finding it difficult - opposition is difficult. -- Eds. It is a tough job

being a press officer, because we have to deal with people like you,

Andrew, Alistair Campbell did a good job, and so did I, but that was many

moons ago. Alistair Campbell said to me yesterday that there was no

equivalence between what he and Peter Mandelson did and what you and

Damian McBride did, that you were much rubber, much tougher, much more

brutal, much more unscrupulous. -- Robert. Oh, dear, I wish, I wish!

Oh, dear, oh, dear. Did he rerelease say that?! I will have a word with

him afterwards! Only after I have had a word with him. There are

reports that you were copied in on briefing e-mail that were sent out

by Damian McBride in 2009. You must have known what was going on. Were

you? I had no idea what he was up to, and neither did Gordon Brown,

because I must say that I do genuinely think that Gordon Brown

would be more shocked than anybody with some of the allegations that

have been made in this book. Really?! I do think... Gold belt

this man was obsessive for detail, he read the papers avidly, he wanted

to know where every story came from, and you are telling me that he saw

these things, oh, Charles Clarke is in a briefing war, no idea where

that came from! The idea that Charles Clarke could not look after

himself, or John Reid, an old comrades in the Communist Party era,

himself, or John Reid, an old it is ridiculous. I am sure you have

enjoyed reading it, I certainly have not read any of these books. I never

read Alistair Campbell's books, Tony Blair's books. When I worked in

government, I felt that what was happening was private. If I had a

bad Jonny that said, when I leave, I am going to write about what

everybody said, there are enough, but I didn't, and I think it is

dishonest, I do not like these books. I certainly do not like

Damian McBride's book. Did you not like Alistair Campbell's diaries? I

bet you looked yourself up in the index! Why would I possibly be

interested in that?! I am interested in real politics, which is about

what happening in this country, living standards, about getting a

Labour government and getting rid of the Tories. All right, we got our

message, thank you for joining us. Now, Ed Balls is bidding later this

morning, but before we do the build-up to that, let's go to

Alistair Campbell, who I think could hear what we were saying, and he

joins us again, twice in two days, it is too much for me! Same time as

well. I have changed mine, but it is the same colour! What did you make

of Charlie Whelan? Just doing his job, never delete thing wrong, this

is all a waste of time nobody cares? Well, I think I would say

borderline... No, not borderline, dishonest. He is right that the

delegates do not want to talk about it and would rather focus on jobs,

the economy, because these abuses that matter to people, but I think

that you cannot go through the decade that went through with the

sort of politics that they operated in and explain to come along and

say, oh, I don't read books, I don't know what is going on. I thought you

were right to press him with some of the questions that you did, because

the idea that he has not read those books as well is, I suspect,

borderline dishonest as well. The point is that when he talks about

borderline dishonest as well. The wanting to get a Labour government,

one of the reasons we don't have a Labour government is because of the

way that people like this behaved when we were in government. Because

a narrative was fed to the public, day in, day out, that Tony Blair was

not very good at his job, that any minister who was frankly very good

not very good at his job, that any at his job and thereby seen as a

threat by people like him and McBride were consistently briefed

against. You made the point, and he tried to laugh it off, about me

saying that Peter Mandelson and I, we never saw an equivalence, and I

did not. The reason why I felt that we were different to them is because

we understood we were part of a team, and as you know, you have been

around politics for a long time. This can get very tough, things can

get very heated, because the issues matter. But the reason why I am

still angry at people like Whelan matter. But the reason why I am

and McBride, and to be frank, let me say, Andrew, a lot of the journalist

who are now running around saying, how terrible these people work, they

were taking this poison. You just add Kevin Maguire on the programme.

Kevin Maguire would take their messages every day of the week. And

on a paper like the Daily Mirror, they would damage the Labour

government of the time. These people frankly, I have no time for them, I

never will have time for them, because they are among the reasons

why we have a Conservative government screwing up the recovery,

the health service, punishing people on welfare, and with a foreign

policy in shambles. That is why it is right that that is what matters,

policy in shambles. That is why it and they are partly responsible for

the Conservatives now being in power and us being out of power. You know,

for Damian McBride to come here and stinky can have his 15 minutes of

fame, he can sell as many thousands of his books as he wants, but he

should have it on his conscience that one of the reasons we have a

should have it on his conscience conservative and not a Labour

government is because he spent his whole time inside government at

taxpayers expense on the payroll, frankly undermining the

effectiveness and performance and leadership of that government. Lets

come onto the position that Labour finds itself in now, because I said

yesterday that when you were with Labour and in opposition, you at

this stage in the political cycle were always well ahead in the

polls, and certainly in the run up to 1997, looking like he would win

by a comfortable majority, maybe not as big as it subsequently became,

that surprised a lot of people, but big. At the moment, the polls are

narrowing, Labour is not that far ahead of the Tories, on economic

confidence the Tories are ahead in the polls. This is an unusual

situation for Labour. Well, I think one of the difficulties for Labour

is that the currently ship, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and a lot of

winning environment. -- current leadership. I think a lot of people

sensed we were going to win in 1997, and that is when most of them came

into active Labour politics. Those of us who had been through the Neil

Kinnock era and Thatcher winning election after election, we remember

what it was like to be in that position and what it was like to be

in a losing and environment, and it is a very difficult place to be.

See, I think it'll be interesting to hear what Ed Balls has to say, but

one of the things that the Labour Party has not properly is rebut this

whole message from the coalition about the mess that we inherited.

Strategically, the Conservatives now do not need to have that much of a

recovery to be able to say, look, we inherited this mess and we are

starting to move on the right direction. The truth is they did not

inherit the mess - they inherited an international financial crisis which

Gordon handled pretty well, and we had ten years of growth and

prosperity under Labour. I think the public have been allowed to have

this message given, the mess we inherited. We need to challenge

that, and obviously most importantly it is about forward policy and the

policy agenda for the future, and this is the week that has to get put

out to the public. The public do not follow politics like you do, they do

not follow politics like your viewers do, who are obviously

interested. Most of the public are getting on with their lives, they

just did in and out of the debate, but between now and the election the

key policy platforms on which we will fight the next election, they

have got to be at there, they have got to be clear, they have got to

fit a coherent strategy, and the other thing is we have to start

taking lumps out of this incompetent, useless government. A

final point, you are in Brighton as part of your campaigning against

alcohol abuse and to raise awareness of these issues - some people will

think that taking that anti-alcohol message to a party conference is a

think that taking that anti-alcohol bit like taking the car ran into a

synagogue. How is it going? And I am here to plug a book! No, it is about

alcoholism. Did you have that down your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do

not want to go there! I would not your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do

take that particular copy! It is down there now. No, the points

today, and I saw the pictures you ran of Eddie Isard, and I was really

pleased to see Andy Burnham there as well, because I really hope the

pleased to see Andy Burnham there as Labour Party seizes this agenda,

because I think that on the food industry, on smoking and packaging,

because I think that on the food and on the alcohol industry, because

David Cameron went down the road of minimum unit pricing and then did a

reversal Eddie Burnham -- Andy Burnham did say there was a vacuum

in health policy. I am going to attempt to launch an attempt to all

parties, and I'm going to the Tories next week in Manchester for the

first time in 20 years, to get all the parties to commit to minimum

pricing and to increasing treatment availability to people who are

dependent drinkers, from 6%, which is pathetic, 6% of alcoholics get

treatment at the moment, up to 15%, which are still poultry in my view,

but it would be a start. And I think that you are right, these

conferences swim on alcohol, and if anybody wants to come tonight,

5:30pm in the Thistle Hotel, it will be the one who's free reception of

the week, hosted by me and Alcohol Concern. -- who's free. We will do a

hat-trick of interviews tomorrow! Do not mess up and get any food on that

site if it is the only one you have got. Thanks for joining us from

Brighton. got. Thanks for joining us from

We are expecting Ed Balls to address conference a little after midday,

but this morning it was the turn of Douglas Alexander, who was caught up

in the Damian McBride memoirs as well. His foreign affairs team were

trying to rally the party faithful, not always easy on foreign affairs,

but let's give you a favour -- a flavour of the conference floor.

When the government get it right, we flavour of the conference floor.

should support them. The truth is, just look at the legacy. Forces

housing has been neglected, forces and allowances have been cut and

they have been sackings of specialists who served on the front

line. When it came to the big vote on Syria, two government ministers

lock themselves away in a soundproofed cupboard and missed the

boat. Is there any wonder this is a government doesn't listen? These are

the people gave us aircraft carrier without an aircraft, they are at it

again. They sacked 20,000 soldiers without an aircraft, they are at it

to be replaced by reservists. They now have two deployed soldiers to

risk the private sector contract now have two deployed soldiers to

that was meant to find the reservists to replace the soldiers

that the country didn't want to lose in the first place. It's time for a

new era of international cooperation, it's time to reform

Europe and its institutions, strengthen NATO and better

coordinate capabilities. It is time to deepen our partnerships with Asia

as economic power moves inexorably to the east. We need that

corporation and that engagement, because you are on your own is as

hopeless a guide to foreign policy as it is a guide to domestic policy

here in the UK. Sadly the Conservatives just don't get that,

they never have and they never will. Douglas Alexander addressing the

they never have and they never will. conference this morning. We are

joined now by Emma Reynolds in Brighton. Welcome back to the Daily

Politics. Can I start on the German election results? The British Labour

Party and the German social Democrats are very close, lots of

ties between them, why did the SPD do so badly? I think the question is

why did Angela Merkel do so well. No, my question is what the SPD do

so badly, never mind her. The reason that the SPD did badly is because

Angela Merkel is an extremely difficult politician to deal with,

to oppose. I think this is really relevant. What she has done if she

has stolen their clothes. She has relevant. What she has done if she

talked about introducing minimum wages, she has talked about

introducing rent controls, these are policies that are more typical of

social Democrats, so they have really been squeezed, she has moved

to the centre and taken up a lot of their ground. It has been extremely

difficult for them to have policies that are distinctive, that's why

they haven't done as well as we would have liked them to do. What

happened in Germany hasn't happened in isolation. Why, after the slump

of 2008, a slump caused by capitalists, has the right one in

the UK, Spain, Greece, Australia, Norway, New Zealand, now Germany?

What is wrong with the left? I do think the results of those countries

are disappointing but we have also seen the centre-left win in France,

lead a government in Italy... That has been a big success! There are

nine countries in Europe where the centre-left leads the government, so

it is not a total wash-out for the centre-left in Europe. No, but you

would have thought, after the slump, which wasn't caused by trade unions

or pay demands or strikes or whatever, but caused by the

activities of bankers, surely you would have expected the left to

activities of bankers, surely you largely sweep the board, and they

haven't. So there must be something wrong with their appeal across

Europe if it is doing so badly. I would like the left to do better but

I also think that it is generally about anti-incumbency, and you have

seen government after government in the EU for in the last two or three

years, because of the economic situation -- fall. Germany is an

exception, because we will see if the same thing happens in Austria,

they may hang onto power, but this about incumbency and about the

economic situation of the particular country. Apart from Australia, but

it just shows what happens when a very divided party, in this case the

Australian Labour Party, when they go to the polls, they really get

punished. When you go to the polls that divided, you will receive the

same treatment. Yesterday, Ed Miliband said on the BBC that labour

's policy on an in out referendum for Europe was very, very clear.

What is that policy? We have been clear that we would keep on statute

the legislation that has been recently passed, couple of years

ago, that if there is a transfer of power from our Parliament to

introduce and of the European Union based in Brussels, then there would

be a referendum. But we have said we are opposed to the Tory promise of a

referendum before the end of 2017, are opposed to the Tory promise of a

which creates great uncertainty and could put jobs and vital foreign

direct investment at risk. Thank you for that. Ed Balls is on the stage.

last. An economy that works were just for the few but for working

people in every part of Britain. And conference, three and a half years

after the general election defeat, we have learned from that experience

and our time in government. Where we got things wrong on immigration

control, on the 10p tax rate, the next Labour government will be

different from the last. And where change is needed in our party, we

will reconnect with our members and working people across the country by

making necessary changes. But conference, let us also be proud of

what the last Labour government achieved. National minimum wage,

schools and hospitals rebuilt, NHS waiting times down from 18 months to

18 weeks. More apprenticeships, not joining the euro, 1 million more

this small businesses, crime down, child poverty down, and 3000 500

more sure start, one of the most important reforms ever delivered by

more sure start, one of the most a Labour government. And conference,

replacing the Tory abomination that was clause 28 with civil

partnerships. Paving the way for a landmark reform, something that

wouldn't have happened without Labour votes in parliament, the

progressive triumph that is gay marriage. And as we look forward to

the general election to come, determined to win a Labour majority,

I want you all to know, as the Labour and co-operative MP, majority

just 1101, the state that David Cameron needed to win to get a Tory

majority in 2010, but because of our hard work and determination, the

seat he failed to win in 2010, I am up for the battle to come. And as

chair of our economic policy commission, I know this whole party

is up for the battle to come. And please join me in thanking my

co-chair, Margaret Eckert, for her continuing hard work and service to

this party -- Margaret Beckett. Not just over the past year but in four

decades in Parliament, we thank you, Margaret. And conference, as a proud

member of the Unison and Unite trade unions, I know to this whole

movement is up for the battle to come. And in the coming months, let

us a cure the foundations for the general election. Selecting the best

parliamentary candidates we have ever had, with more women candidates

parliamentary candidates we have in key seats than ever before.

Winning council seats and by-elections up and down the

country, with the toughest and best generation of local government

leaders we have ever had. Winning more seats in the European

elections, and let us end next year in the European elections, the stain

on our country 's reputation, by in the European elections, the stain

kicking the BNP out of the European Parliament. And conference... In

next September 's Scottish recommend -- referendum, now showing so

powerfully up there that the case for suppression is falling apart,

when Alex Salmond is in a state of total confusion on the single most

important decision a country can take on the economy, which currency

to have, first he wanted the euro, saying sterling was a millstone

around our neck, now he says he wants independence but to keep the

pound all the same. Let us win the argument that we are better together

in next year 's Scottish referendum. And let us demonstrate as Welsh

Labour have done so brilliantly that it is our Labour values of

cooperation, solidarity and social justice that best secure our union.

And conference, it is Labour whose leader is facing up to the need for

reform, leading from the front on phone hacking, on banking firm,

putting the crisis of the squeezed middle on the political agenda

before anyone else. And who on Syria, had the courage to stand up

and say that if the case was sound and the United Nations was properly

engaged, Labour would support military action but that Labour

would not support a gung ho prime minister putting the decision for

evidence in a reckless -- to conflict. Conference, Ed Miliband

was right. He prevailed. My friend, our leader, Britain 's next prime

minister, Ed Miliband. And conference, when David Cameron and

William Hague now have the nerve to go around saying that Parliament has

Mac refusal to be bounced into military action in Syria has

diminished Britain, let us reply, no Labour government will ever stand

aside when terrible expertise are committed and international law is

broken. -- terrible atrocities. But we know what has diminished Britain.

Flouncing out of a European summit, leaving Britain without influence,

isolated, that is what has diminished Britain. Absurdly

comparing Britain to Greece, and choking off business confidence and

our recovery, that is what has diminished Britain. Stigmatising the

unemployed and low paid and calling them shirkers, driving vans read our

streets, telling immigrants to go home, attacking our police, teachers

and social workers, peddling the lie that Britain is broken, that is what

has diminished Britain. Conference, we know who has diminished Britain.

We know who has diminished Britain. David Cameron has diminished

Britain. Although, didn't you feel a David Cameron has diminished

little sorry for our promise to this summer? Didn't you? -- for our Prime

Minister. Back in August, on the beach, changing into his swimming

trunks, behind that Mickey Mouse towel, captured on camera 's,

unflattering pictures spread across the national press conference, I

have in there, I know what it's like. But when Yvette saw the

pictures, she said, rather pointedly, she said that for a

46-year-old man, David Cameron looked rather slim. Slim! Who on

earth can she have been comparing him to? ! I just thought, for a

prime minister, it was a surprisingly small towel. But

conference, let us all agree, after the last three years, the sooner

David Cameron throws in the towel, the better. Conference...

Conference, we all remember, as Margaret has just said, what David

Cameron, George Osborne said on the economy three years ago - they

claimed in 2010 Baxter tax rises and deeper spending cuts would secure

the economic recovery and make it stronger. They said their plan would

make people better off and get the deficit down. On every test they set

themselves, the Prime Minister and Chancellor have failed. They did not

secure the recovery, they choked it off, as we want, and a flat lined

our economy for three wasted and damaging years. They claimed living

standards would rise, but they have fallen year-on-year. They made the

number one test of their economic credibility keeping the AAA credit

rating, and our country has been downgraded not once but twice. They

promise to balance the books by 2015, but the deficit is now said to

be over £90 billion. And now, after three wasted years, David Cameron

and George Osborne try to claim their plan has worked. Worked! It we

have worked for a privileged few at the top, but for the million young

people trapped out of work, that Tory plan has not worked at all.

For... For millions... For millions of

ordinary families worried about how to make ends meet, when wages are

falling and prices are rising, for the young couples struggling to get

on the housing ladder because the chronic shortage of homes is forcing

up prices, for ordinary working families, the aspirational majority

who work hard, pay their taxes, who wants to get on and not just get by,

but who are working harder for less as the cost of living keeps on

rising, this Tory plan is not working. And for the 400,000

disabled adults forced to pay the government's perverse and deeply

unfair bedroom tax, this Tory plan has failed them absolutely. And that

is why, in our first budget, the has failed them absolutely. And that

next Labour government will repeal the bedroom tax.

So when David Cameron and George Osborne say that everything in the

economy is down to them, let us remind them prices rising faster

than wages for 38 of the 39 months since David Cameron went into

Downing Street, three years of flat-lining, the slowest recovery

for over 100 years, 1 million young people out of work, welfare spending

rising, more borrowing to pay for their economic failure. That is

their economic record, and we will not let them forget it. I say to

David Cameron and George Osborne, you cannot just airbrush away three

wasted years, you cannot just airbrush away your economic failure.

And, conference, as for their claim that we are all in this together, we

don't hear that line much anymore. And with the deficit still high and

ordinary families still struggling with the cost of living crisis, how

can it be right or fair for David Cameron and George Osborne to have

chosen this year to give the richest people in our country earning over

£150,000 a £3 billion tax cut? Isn't it is now clear whose side David

Cameron and jaws bottom -- George Osborne are really on? Cutting taxes

for hedge funds, trying to bribe working people to give up

for hedge funds, trying to bribe rights, country suppers at Chequers

for Tory party fundraisers, protecting the privileges of the few

while the many work hard and do not see the benefit. For all their claim

to be modernisers, with Cameron and Osborne, it has not been, who wants

to be a millionaire? It is who wants to help a millionaire. It is not

to be a millionaire? It is who wants phone a friend, it is cut taxes for

your friend. It is not 50-50, it is winner takes all. Conference, isn't

it about time they asked the audience? Because... Because we...

Because we know the truth. We know the truth. After the last three

years, David Cameron and George Osborne, for the few not the many,

more of the same, from the same old stories. And, conference, after

three years of stagnation, it is good news our economy has started to

finally started to grow again. It was going three years ago before

they choked it. That it was growing. So don't listen to the Tory

propaganda that says that Labour does not want the economy to grow,

what nonsense! Because when the economy was in recession, we know

which communities lose out. When unemployment becomes entrenched, we

know which constituencies suffer most. When the cost of living is

rising, we know which families are hardest hit. And we know that three

years of flat-lining, far longer than any of us expected, has caused

long-term damage. Businesses bankrupt, investment in capacity

lost, long-term unemployment entrenched. And now even as growth

finally returns, with prices still rising faster than wages, with

business investment still weak, with unemployment still rising in half

the country, with bank lending still falling to businesses, we cannot be

satisfied. For millions of people in our country, this is no recovery at

all. And when, around the world, emerging markets are jittery, China

all. And when, around the world, is slowing, oil prices are rising,

the eurozone is still stuck with chronic low growth, I say, this is

no time for complacency, to sit back with fingers crossed. That is why we

no time for complacency, to sit back have urged George Osborne to act to

secure a strong recovery, because what Britain needs now is strong

enough growth to catch up all that lost ground and so that everyone can

feel the benefit, and not the view. Not a recovery that just works. ,

not early hikes in interest rates and mortgage rates as a weak British

economy hits the inflationary buffers, but a recovery that works

for all and is built to last. And that is why, along with voices from

bankrupt England and the IMF, we are right to be concerned that the

government is boosting housing demand. The taxpayer mortgage

guarantee on houses up to £600,000 in value while doing nothing about

the supply of housing which has fallen to its lowest level since the

1920s. George, its basic economic, its basic economic. If you push up

housing demand and do nothing to boost supply, prices go up and up,

and the end result is that the very people you should be helping - young

first-time buyers, will find it even harder to get on the housing ladder.

Conference, I have to ask, when we need to secure stronger growth and

invest for the long-term, how can it be right George Osborne to be

planning to cut infrastructure investment in 2015? That is why we

have consistently said, why the IMF have said, bring forward £10 billion

of infrastructure investment now. Build 400,000 affordable homes over

the next two years, create 500,000 jobs and thousands of

apprenticeships. That is the way to secure an economy that works for all

and is built to last. But, conference, we cannot rely on

George Osborne to do the right thing. And with George Osborne doing

the wrong things, we stand to inherit a very difficult situation.

After three wasted years of lost growth, far from balancing the

books, in 2015, there is now set to be a deficit of over £90 billion.

And I need to be straight with this conference and with the country

about what that means. The Government's day-to-day spending

totals in 2015-16 will be our starting point. Any changes for

current spending plans will need to be fully funded and send out an

advanced in our manifesto. There will be no more borrowing for

day-to-day spending, we will set out to fiscal rules to balance the

current budget and to get the national debt on a downward path. Of

course, Labour will make different choices, we will combine iron

discipline on spending control with a fairer approach to deficit

reduction. And with our 0-based review, a review of every £1 spent

by Government from the bottom-up, Rachel Reeves and my Shadow Cabinet

colleagues have begun the work of identifying savings so we can switch

to Labour's priorities. But we will not be able to reverse all the

to Labour's priorities. But we will spending cuts and tax rises that the

Tories have pushed through. We will have to govern with less money

around. The next Labour government would have to make cuts to, because

while jobs and growth are vital to get the deficit down, they are not

going to be able to magic away a £90 billion deficit at a stroke.

Delivering our Labour goals will be harder than at any time than we can

member, but it can be done - if we get people back to work, strengthen

the economy, cut out waste, focus relentlessly on our priorities, and

make sure difficult choices are not ducked but are rooted in our values,

fairness and common sense. So, conference, at a time in the public

services that pensioners rely on under such pressure, we cannot

continue paying the winter fuel allowance to the richest 5% of

pensioners. We will not be able to allowance to the richest 5% of

reverse the Government's cuts to child benefit for the highest

earners. We will keep the benefit stab at major problem reflects

housing costs. We will have to have stab at major problem reflects

a cap on structural social security. Over the long term, as our

population ages, there will need to be increases in the retirement age.

But a fairer approach to deficit reduction means we will also crack

down on tax avoidance, scrap the shares schemes, and reverse the tax

cut for hedge funds, and we will insist that all the proceeds from

the sale of our stakes in Lloyds and RBS are used not for a one-off

pre-election tax giveaway, but every penny of profit used to repay the

national debt. Conference, that is fiscal responsibility in the

national interest. And with our 0-based reviews, we

will make different choices, so we will ask, can we improve care and

save money, as Andy Burnham has proposed, by pooling Health and

Social Care Act a single service with a single budget and joint

management? And, conference, we will repeal the damaging and costly Tory

privatisation of our National Health Service.

And we will... We will ask, does it really makes sense to have separate

costly management and bureaucracy. Many separate governments

departments, agencies, fire services and police forces? -- for so many.

We will not pay for new free schools and police forces? -- for so many.

in areas where there are extra school places well parents in other

areas are struggling to get their children into a local school.

And on infrastructure, we need more long-term investment. And we will

assess the case for capital investment as we prepare our

manifesto, but we must also set the right priorities and get value for

money. Conference, we support investment in better transport links

for the future. We continue to back the idea of a new North-south rail

link, but under this government, the High Speed Two project has been

totally mismanaged, and the High Speed Two project has been

have shot up to £50 billion. David High Speed Two project has been

Cameron and George Osborne have made clear that they will go full is team

ahead with this project, no matter how much the costs spiral up and up.

They seem willing to put their own pride and urbanity above best value

for the taxpayer. Maria Eagle and I are clear that we will not take this

irresponsible approach. Let us be clear, in tough times, when there is

less money around and a big deficits to get down, there will be no blank

cheque from me as a Labour Chancellor for this project or any

other project, because the question is not just whether a new high-speed

line is a good idea or a bad idea, but whether it is the best way to

spend £50 billion for the future of our country.

Conference, in tough times, it even more important that all our

policies and commitments are properly costed and funded. The

policies and commitments are British people rightly wants to know

that the sums add up, so we will go one step further and ask the

independent Office for Budget Responsibility, the watchdog set up

by this government, to independently audited the costings of every single

individual spending and tax measure in Labour's manifesto at the next

election. This is the first time a Shadow Chancellor, the first time

any political party has ever said he wants this kind of independent

audit. It is a radical change from what has gone before, but it is the

right thing to do to help restore trust in politics, and that is why

we are going to do it. Conference, you know we need

economic responsibility and fiscal rigour. And we can't write all the

details of our first budget today, where we don't know the estate of

the economy and how bad the where we don't know the estate of

finances are going to be that we will inherit. But after three wasted

years of Tory failure, people are rightly now asking, what will Labour

do differently? And now, with 19 months to go to the election, this

week, today and tomorrow and in the coming days is the right time to set

out Labour's alternatives. Conference, as Liam Byrne has said,

Labour would stand aside without almost 1 million young people out of

work and when long-term unemployment is so high. We know can't make our

comic grow more strongly, get the cost of welfare down and deal with

the deficit if we are squandering the talents of so many. We will fund

this by repeating the tax on bank bonuses and restricting pensions tax

relief for the very highest earners to the same rate as the average

taxpayer. We will work within ploy is to make sure there will be a paid

job for all young people out of work for more than 12 months and adults

out of work for two years or more, which people will have to take or

lose benefits. That is welfare reform that works. That is what we

mean by matching rights with responsibilities, eating young

people into work and ending the scourge of long-term unemployment

once and for all. -- getting young people into work. Conference, when

people get into work they should always be better off, it should

always pay more to be in work than on benefits so we must do more to

make work pay. The national minimum wage is one of our proudest

achievements. It was opposed by the Tories every step of the way, even

now some Conservatives say the minimum wage should be suspended.

And its value has fallen by 5% in real terms since 2010. So we must

now fight to protect and strengthen the national minimum wage,

increasing the fine for those who exploit workers, strengthening it

and restoring its value, catching up the ground lost over the last three

years and encouraging employers to go further and pay the minimum --

living wage. And conference, to move Labour on from the past, to put it

where it should always be, on the side of working people, we will

introduce a new 10p starting rate of tax will stop a tax cut for 25

million hard-working people on minimum and lower incomes. And we

will pay for it by introducing a mansion tax on property is worth

over £2 million. -- properties. Introduced in a fair way, so that

foreign investors who buy a property in London to make a profit will

finally make a proper tax contribution to our country. But the

many families, high childcare costs are a real problem, it can mean it

many families, high childcare costs doesn't even add up to go to work.

Childcare is a vital part of our doesn't even add up to go to work.

economic infrastructure. That alongside family support and

flexible working should give parents the choice to stay at home with

their children when they are very small, and balance work and

their children when they are very as they grow older. To make work pay

for families, we must act. Stephen Twigg said that yesterday how we

will guarantee childcare available for all primary school children from

8am until 6pm. And today, I want to go further. As we need to do more

for families with nursery age children, too. Conference, here is

how we can. After the financial crisis, it is right that the banks

make a greater contribution. In the last financial year, the banks made

a staggering £2.7 billion less in overall tax than in 2010. Over the

last two years, the government 's bank levy has raised 1.6 billion

less than even they said it would. At a time when resources are tight

and families are under pressure, that's not right, and we will act.

The next Labour government will increase the bag levy rate to raise

an extra £800 million and we will use the money for families where all

parents want to work and are in work, to increase free childcare for

three-year-olds and four-year-olds work, to increase free childcare for

from 15 hours to 25 hours. For parents in work, free childcare for

three-year-olds and four-year-olds from 15 to 25 hours a week, for the

first time, parents able to work part time without having to worry at

all about the cost of childcare, that is what we mean by making work

pay. That's what we mean by tackling the cost of living crisis, that is a

radical transformation in the provision of childcare in our

country. And conference, we need a radical transformation in our

economy. Because the countries that radical transformation in our

succeed now are those that exploit the huge opportunities that digital

media and education, medical technology are coming, will Britain

seize this opportunity or squander it? As we and

seize this opportunity or squander know there is no future in trying to

undercut the merging market economies like India, China and

Brazil on wages and cost. That's why so many companies look at this

government 's record on industrial policy with increasing dismay. The

Heseltine growth review muted, the British bank a damp squib,

apprenticeships for young people actually falling. Energy policy in

chaos. On infrastructure, dither, actually falling. Energy policy in

delay and inaction. We cannot succeed with this race to the

bottom, with laissez faire deregulation and trickle-down

economic. Because it's NRO and defeatist vision, it is doomed to

fail and we have seen it fail before. Just look at the British car

industry in the 70s and 80s, trying to compete on cost, cutting back on

innovation, quality and skills, played by terrible industrial

relations. And now look at the Renaissance in Jaguar Land Rover,

creating thousands more jobs, exporting around the world, not by

cutting corners but waste of world-class, long-term investment in

innovation, skills and supply chains. We are determined to learn

from that success and that is why we can announce executive director of

Land Rover will now lead a review for us on how we can help strengthen

our supply chains and deliver the skills and innovation Britain needs

to succeed. Following the review on short-term is, we will change

takeover rules and corporate incentives and reform taxes to stop

asset stripping in the short-term and instead, support long-term

investment. And why not use any revenues from the planned increase

in the license fees for the mobile phone spectrum, expected to be over

£1 billion in the next Parliament, to capitalise the British investment

bank so that region by region, we can get small businesses, the

finance they need to grow and create jobs. Conference, we will set up an

independent infrastructure commission has recommended by the

chair of the Olympic delivery authority, to end either and delay

in infrastructure planning. We will legislate for us to get free banking

code of conduct and demand real reform and cultural change from the

banks. We will legislate for a decarbonisation, and unlock billions

of pounds of investment in renewables, nuclear, clean coal

technology and we will give the green investment bank borrowing

powers it needs to do it is job. That is what the next Labour

government will do. So conference, even in difficult times, even as we

face a huge deficit, we will rise to the challenge. We will build an

economy that works for the many and not just a few at the top. And we

know it can be done. Because we have done it before. Conference, we are

know it can be done. Because we have not the first Labour generation to

face a huge deficit and the need for spending restraint and a country

crying out the change. We are not the first generation to be awed by

the scale of what needs to be done, to transform our country. As we

prepare for the 20 15th general election, to be held in the 70th

anniversary year of the Second World War, let us take inspiration from

the great reforming Labour government of 1945. Conference, that

past Labour generation faced huge economic and fiscal challenges. But

they did not flinch. And they built lasting change. New homes for

returning heroes, universal welfare state and national health of which

65 years on is still weak and four British values, for all and not just

a privilege few. -- privileged few. So conference, let us not be the

a privilege few. -- privileged few. Labour generation that fringed in

the face of hardship. Let us show we will not duck the great challenges

we are going to face on spending and the deficit. And let us build an

economy that works for all working families, in every part of our

country. And in the coming weeks and months, when people ask what would a

Labour government do? Let's go out and tell them. Jobs for young people

guaranteed. Expanding free childcare, a British investment

bank, infrastructure delivered, green investment unlock, the deficit

down fairly, tax cuts for millions, not the millionaires. Reforming our

banks, the NHS saved, tackling tax avoidance, rail fares capped, the

bedroom tax scrapped, building the homes we need. That is what a Labour

government could do. Let's come together, go out there and make it

happen. Thank you, conference. They get to their feet as Ed Balls

finishes his address as Shadow Chancellor. He spoke for just over

half an hour. The new story in it, he started to distance himself from

HS2, the rail line from London to Birmingham, originally a Labour idea

picked up by the Coalition Government but he seems to be

worried about the escalating cost of it. He says there is no blank cheque

for it and he wants to review it along with all the other

infrastructure projects he might get involved in. He also said he wanted

the Office for Budget Responsibility to look at his sons and spending

plans, to get an endorsement, to get them independently audited. He took

awhile to get the economy, even though he is Shadow Chancellor, he

spent the first pages of his speech sounding more like the Labour

leader, but I'm sure there is nothing in that. He promised tough

fiscal constraints, he wants a compulsory jobs guarantee. He will

pay for that with a tax on bankers bonuses, takeaway pension relief

from the highest earners, so everybody gets it at the basic rate

of tax. He wants to encourage a living wage and he wants up a levy

of tax. He wants to encourage a to be able to pay for more child

care. These are the highlights of his speech. We are joined by Sajid

Javid to get some reaction to that. Would you make of that? I'm made of

that that he is showing a lack of confidence. The conservative

government is embarking on a massive £50 billion investment in

infrastructure, which tells us that they know that the government as to

invest in infrastructure in order to get the economy ticking again. And

yet what he is saying is that he's not talking about that, talks about

that in a small way, what he's emphasising is he will raise taxes

to pay for childcare and to pay for jobs guarantees. But he is losing is

the big picture, which the Tory government has finally got, which is

the only way you're going to get the revenue you need to bring down the

deficit is to invest in infrastructure, stimulate the

private sector and then your tax revenues will flow. He's suggesting

that HS2 may not be the most productive way of doing that. He

wants a rail line to the North but his wandering why it is so

expensive. But here you have his wandering why it is so

political consensus between all the parties, that £50 billion is needed

to kick-start something, in this case for HS2. We have agreement, so

the salami slicing around little bits per childcare here and there,

that is not what it is about. What did you make of it? Clearly he wants

to criticise the Tories further economic policy and he talks about

these wasted years of stagnation. What is the real case is that after

a global financial crisis, we were never going to recover properly.

There has been plenty of analysis, and they take a long time to recover

from. The matter who was in charge, we would have years of negative

growth and an economy that flat lined -- no matter who was in

charge. What is interesting is the economy starting to bloom now. Boom?

Many economists are now predicting 3% growth. The profession always

gets the amplitude wrong, and it is not until the data comes out

properly years later that we realise the down periods were a lot more

than and the other periods were a lot more of. So that is what I

think, he has missed that. Let me bring in Sajid Javid, the fact is

that the economy did not go for three years. We inherited an economy

that had just experienced the mother of all recessions, the deepest

recession we had seen in peacetime. There was a worldwide financial

crash. That did not mean we have to have the biggest deficit of any

industrialised country. But our financial services were bigger, so

it was going to hit us more. That is because we took our eye off the

ball, and when the alarm bells were ringing, no one was listening

because we changed the regulatory system. You never objected. With the

encouragement of the Conservative Party. We voted against those

changes, and Peter Lilley said it would be a field day. It is and

groups, and he has been proven right. But you were urging for less

regulation. What was important, what I took away from Ed Balls' speech

regulation. What was important, what just now is that, first of all,

let's look at the words he did not use. He did not say plan be, too far

too fast, he did not say triple dip, recession made in Downing

Street. Why? Because he knows he has lost the economic argument. The

economy is recovering, I would not say it is booming but it is turning

the corner. There are still a lot of work to do, and Ed Balls knows that.

Now he has not got any policies, other than what he has been talking

Now he has not got any policies, about. You would have thought he

would have learned the lesson, but it is about more spending and debt.

By 2015, will people be worse off or better off than 2010? I hope they

will be better off. They are not now. That is our target, to make

sure that everyone feels the benefits of economic recovery, and

if we are going to do that we have to be serious about tackling our

record budget deficit. We have to keep interest rates low and major

our economy keeps generating jobs. It is generating jobs today faster

than any other country in the G7. There are more people employed today

in Britain than at any other time in our history. Excuse me, the Governor

of the Bank of England has made it clear you cannot have a substantial

fall in unemployment and low interest rates, it is one or the

other, what do you want going into 2015, unemployment below 7% or

interest rates at 0.5%? We are going to keep focusing on bringing

unemployment is down, and the claimant level is coming down. If

you look at the forecasts of the major bodies, the major think tank

said so forth, they are showing increasing economic growth. I

understand that, so in return for unemployment going below 7%,

understand that, so in return for although I am not sure it will by

2015, although it could, under what you're saying, you are happy to see

interest rates rise? That is what the governor says. I think if we

stick to our economic policy, which is bringing back confidence, keeping

stick to our economic policy, which interest rates low, keeping mortgage

rates low, and if the Bank of England decides to do that, it is up

to them. With this forward guidance, the governor has told us

that if unemployment falls below 7%, he will take it as a sign that the

economy is under way and interest rates will have to rise. You

comfortable to go into the next election rising interest rates? I

trust his judgment. That is not the answer to my question. You are

comfortable with rising interest rates? Once the economy starts to

recover, and right now we're just the corner, and we have to keep

working, it is not a judgment for the government to make. What we have

got to do is keep focusing on the deficit, keep reducing taxes on

business to generate jobs. Coming back to living standards, at the

moment they are substantially below 2010, when you came into power.

Prices have consistently risen higher than wages in the public and

private sectors. Can I get it clear, are you telling us that that will no

longer be the case by 2015, that he will fight the next election with

living standards higher than 2010? What I am saying is that we will

keep working hard to help people with their living standards and the

keep working hard to help people best way to do that is the root

page, full-time employment. The fact that the economy is generating jobs

faster than anyone else in the G7 is a good thing. Will people be better

off or not by 2015? I hope so, but I cannot judge the future. Will you

let the office for budget responsible do to an independent

audit on Mr Balls' manifesto policies? -- the office of budget

responsible to. We created this office in the first

place because Gordon Brown fiddled the figures whenever he felt like

it, so we have this independent office... That would politicise it.

You will not allow it? It would require primary legislation, so it

is high in the sky to even think about it. That is not what the Tory

chairman of the banking committee says. It would require primary

legislation, and Ed Balls has used this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to

take us away from the real argument, this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to

which is an unfunded spending commitments. -- this argument. Thank

you for your figures. These are Treasury figures that I have

collected. Let's go now, fresh from the speech, to the Shadow Treasury

minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Ed Balls

minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to made it clear that he will stick to

the existing coalition spending plans if he is in power for 2015-16,

but that is only the first year of any future Labour government, and it

does not include capital spending, so you could unleash, put the taps

on for 2016? You have only committed to one year, correct? ? We had their

Spending Review in 2015-16 in the summer, that one year, and we are

only able to talk about that starting point in the context of the

announcements that the Chancellor has made. Sadly, that is the bases

we are starting from the -- there, even though we have this deficit.

You could tell us what your pistol rules would be for the subsequent

years, because at the moment we have no idea, and you may be very much by

stopping in year one, but you could go back to your profligate ways in

years two, three and four. Well, no, look, I think it is a commitment

that is quite important for opposition to make. People want to

know how we would approach fiscal policy, and I think the fact that we

are recognising that we are still going to have a legacy of the

deficits despite all the promises that George Osborne made, that it

would balance the books, that deficit is still going to be very

considerable indeed, and therefore it is only the responsible thing to

say to the public, you know, we cannot magic that away, we will have

to use it as a starting point, the plans that they have sat out. If

Sajid Javid and others are going to be decked for future years, we will

look at that at that point. -- going to project. Let me ask you a couple

of details, very important details on mansion tax - on houses worth

more than £2 million, will that mansion tax be on the value above £2

million, or on the whole value of the house? Well, it will not be

hitting anybody with properties below £2 million. I am not asking

that. We need to have an approach to the mansion tax that looks at those

properties... I understand that. It is only on those amounts. Know,

clarify that for me. Let me ask you the question again, it is very

important - is it on the value over £2 million, supposing it is £3

million, the value of the house, is it on that final £1 million, or

visit on the full £3 million? Well, no, the rate of tax would be

dependent on the calculation is of the numbers of properties at that

point in time worth... Am not asking you the raid. Let me finish, please.

I have to finish the sentence to explain it. The Government, for

example, have just introduced a new regime called the annual tax on

envelope dwellings for £2 million and above, where they are owned by

companies. The Government, the Treasury have all the methodology

for dealing with high-value properties of £2 million and above,

the question is, why would they extended... The question is, no, Mr

Leslie, the question is quite simple, and you have yet to answer

it! Let me try one more time. If we look at a house that is valued at £3

million, above the £2 million that you have said will be where the

mansion tax kicks in, will be you have said will be where the

mansion tax, whatever level it is, will it fall just on the incremental

1 million, or will it fall on the full 3 million? Well, obviously, on

the incremental, because properties below £2 million will not be

affected by this. They will not be below £2 million will not be

classified as mansions. The Liberal Democrats came up with a proposal

that they think around £2 million can be raised from this, so it is

not just something that is the preserve of the Labour Party. You

have not and my question, that is fine, that is your privilege. No,

you do not like the answer. No, I do not understand, because you have not

and said on that distinction. How big will the bankers' levy have to

be to raise the extra 800 million? Well, the bank levy was supposed to

be yielding £2.5 billion from the moment at which the Chancellor

designed it in the way that he did. It was unusual, because he set out

the amount that he was targeting explicitly, 2.5 billion in every

year. Every year in the House of Commons we have had that debate, it

raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He has had to increase it. And every

raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He year he has failed to get it. How

big will you make it? We believe that it needs to be, the methodology

needs to be adjusted so we can get the extra £800 million, and we would

use that, importantly, to increase the hours of free childcare from

15... I know what you are going to do, I understand that. You are going

to use the money for that, I just wondered what the rate would be.

Finally, briefly, do you take 800 million out of the banks, it is less

they will have to lead to small businesses, correct question me I do

not accept that. Banks have all sorts of reserves, they have costs,

compensation, as they call it, to senior management. They are more

than able to deal with the £2.5 billion that George Osborne said

they should be paying. Why hasn't he got that amount of them? It is a

scandal, the banks are paying less and less tax under this government.

All right, we have run out of time. Everyone else is paying more. Oh,

still going! Just time to get the answer to the quiz, which film

doesn't make Ed Balls cry? I have got no idea, Bambi, he did not cry

at Bambi. I do not know why you would cry at the Antiques Roadshow

at Bambi. I do not know why you but not at Bambi! What kind

at Bambi. I do not know why you person is that?! Anyway, there you

go. Thanks to our guests today, you have had to sit through the party

conference speech. We have got more of it next week with the Tories!

Sorry that we did not renew Adam's mood box, I have heard it is very

good. Thanks to all of our guests. The one o'clock news is starting on

BBC One, James Landale will be hosting today at conference after

Newsnight on BBC Two. And we will be back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not

one but two programmes on the Labour back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not

conference, what value we give you! From midday, and normal conference

Marshall, then a quick break, back at two o'clock for a very important

speech for Ed Miliband. Goodbye!