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Welcome to the Daily Politics special. Yesterday I was in the | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
factory where they are making parts for our new London buses. Manchester | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
tells London where to go away to get off! At last, a well delivered | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
conference gag. So can Boris pull off being the mayor and a member of | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
Parliament at the same time? They are considered a plague at the | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
conference, says Nigel Farage, but some Tory MPs apparently want to be | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
infected. What conditions of any conservative UKIP deals? The scheme | :01:22. | :01:44. | |
has its vocal opponents in the Party but what do activists in Manchester | :01:44. | :01:51. | |
think about High Speed Rail? And living with the enemy - what | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
happened when Tony Blair's former spin doctor went to Manchester? | :01:54. | :02:09. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration - fresh from | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
picking up gongs at the Emmy's in Los Angeles for the American version | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
picking up gongs at the Emmy's in of "house of cards" - is author, | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
screenwriter, and former Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
Michael Dobbs. Before we move on to events in Manchester, let's turn to | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
Michael Dobbs. Before we move on to Ed Miliband and an article today in | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
the Daily Mail about his late father, Ralph. On Saturday the Mail | :02:26. | :02:42. | |
published an article about Ralph Miliband under the headline "the man | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
who hated Britain". Today Mr Miliband has been given space to | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
reply, but in an adjoining comment piece the Mail says it stands by its | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
original article which it has also reprinted today. Here's what Mr | :02:52. | :03:02. | |
Miliband had to say earlier. It is perfectly legitimate to talk about | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
my father's politics but when they said he hated Britain, I will not | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
put up with that because he loved Britain. He served in the Royal | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
Navy, he was a refugee who came here, he took great comfort in what | :03:15. | :03:23. | |
this country offered him and I am was appalled when I read that in the | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
Daily Mail, and they said he hated Britain, it is a lie. They have | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
repeated that lie today and gone further, and described my father 's | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
legacy as evil. The word evil is reserved for particular cases and I | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
was not able to let that stand and that is why I have spoken out. Ed | :03:44. | :03:54. | |
Miliband is clearly disturbed and he is right to be, Michael? Yes, it is | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
probably counter-productive as well, what is the point of accusing Ed | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
Miliband of effectively being a crypto Marxist and establishing a | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
sort of idea that he is anything other than the man he is, which is a | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
man still searching for what he believes in and what he stands for. | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
To attack a father who is no longer here to defend himself, as David | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
Cameron said this morning, he would be up in arms if anybody attacked | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
his late father. I remember the Daily Express and the Daily Mail got | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
into a furious row with each other when they started attacking each | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
other's proprietors and they eventually had to call a truce on | :04:40. | :04:48. | |
the whole thing. I suppose we'll have a few skeletons in our closet | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
the whole thing. I suppose we'll but to attack a politician might Ed | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
Miliband because of what his father might have written when he was 17 is | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
probably not the strongest of arguments. His father was a Marxist, | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
that has always been known, and was not a great believer in the | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
Parliamentary system. When then they'll does this now, it is not | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
attacking his father, it is attacking Ed Miliband. I really do | :05:14. | :05:35. | |
believe that this sort of stuff should be pushed to one side and | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
let's concentrate on Ed Miliband's policies. He will not be going for | :05:40. | :05:48. | |
lunch at the Daily Mail at any time. I'm surprised he reads the Daily | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
Mail. Other people have done. Let's go to Manchester now, it is time to | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
get a sense of the mood of the conference. Let's speak to Elizabeth | :06:00. | :06:12. | |
Rigby, I understand hurricane Boris made landfall last night, what has | :06:12. | :06:24. | |
been the impact? It is Borismania here as ever. His supporters are | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
saying he is trying to be loyal to David Cameron and he is setting out | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
his pitch for a leadership battle but not for a few years. He made a | :06:33. | :06:52. | |
couple of remarks on stamp duty, made a slight take about helping out | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
in a subtle way but the Boris show is in town and we love it. When he | :06:58. | :07:05. | |
says he is loyal, we believe him 100%. We wouldn't doubt that for a | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
minute, would we? Absolutely, he has no all teary emotive. When he basks | :07:13. | :07:22. | |
in the glory of standing ovations, he is thinking of no more than doing | :07:22. | :07:39. | |
a good job as London mayor. His mayoralty runs until 2016 but it is | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
interesting to hear the Prime Minister talking about it and who | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
knows where the Boris story will go? What is the Prime Minister up to | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
here? Boris has ruled out being an MP as long as he is still the mayor | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
of London. It will still be mayor in 2015, what is the Prime Minister | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
doing here? What else can the Prime Minister do, if he is asked these | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
questions, if he appears to say I don't want Boris anywhere near my | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
Parliamentary party in the Commons, it looks like somehow he sees Boris | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
as a threat. He has to be prime ministerial about it and say, yes, I | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
would welcome Boris back with open arms but his calculation is that it | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
is better to keep Boris away from the Parliamentary party as long as | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
he can. The truth is that Mr Johnson needs the Prime Minister to lose in | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
2015. That would open up a leadership vacancy, however I'm not | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
sure whether Boris has the capability to be an opposition | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
leader. I think he can just about all off being Prime Minister but I | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
think the chances for it all going horribly wrong if he were the | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
opposition leader, which we all know is the most difficult job in | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
politics, it could go horribly wrong if that were the case. Now it is the | :09:11. | :09:23. | |
morning after the day before, how is George Osborne's speech being | :09:23. | :09:30. | |
regarded? I would say the speech has been welcomed. The Tories are | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
clearly making their pitch as the protectors of the economy and when | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
we were going around the bars last night talking to senior people in | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
the party, they made the point that they can only win if they win on the | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
economy and that has to come first. George Osborne slowly but the | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
economy and economic fiscal discipline at the heart of the | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
strategy, and a few populist measures sprinkled on like fairy | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
dust with the fuel duty. Fairy dust in Manchester! Thank you. What do | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
you make of the Boris phenomenon? Is he a serious contender to replace | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
David Cameron? I think he has to be careful because every year we are | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
getting accustomed to this Boris Paxman interview on Newsnight, where | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
Jeremy asks the questions and Boris sits there and says, I may love | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
them, but he has got to start committing himself. In what way? To | :10:34. | :10:42. | |
say, yes, I have these ambitions and they will come a point when I want | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
to be a member of Parliament. He has a wonderful persona, he is | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
to be a member of Parliament. He has life and jollity but they are not | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
the characteristics people require for Prime Minister and he has to | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
make that transmission which will be a difficult one from being much | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
loved to being someone who could credibly be a national leader. | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
Should he break his word and stand for Parliament in 2015? Politicians | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
breaking their word? It would be terrifying but somehow I think he | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
breaking their word? It would be would survive. Now it's time for our | :11:17. | :11:34. | |
daily quiz. The question for today is: Which of these shoes do not | :11:34. | :11:43. | |
belong to Home Secretary, Theresa May. At the end of the show Michael | :11:43. | :11:56. | |
will give the correct answer. We can now go live to the Conservative | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
conference in Manchester, where we are joined by the Cabinet office | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
minister, Francis Maude. You have been described this week by the | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
Guardian as the keeper of the modernising flame and by the | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
Telegraph as the modernisers' moderniser. When you look at the | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
range of policies announced this week, including a crackdown on | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
welfare claimants, deporting foreign criminals before appeal, does not | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
that feel like the modernising project in reverse? Know, | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
modernisation is what the Conservative party has to do all the | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
time. All parties have to make themselves on temporary in tune with | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
what Britain is today. Some of the work I do in Government does not fit | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
in with the conventional view of what modernisation is but that is | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
what contemporary Britain requires. It requires a Government that is | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
committed to driving down immigration, and all parties agree | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
with that. We are doing it very effectively, reforming public | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
services, that is what contemporary Britain expects a conservative led | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
Government to do. What about the marriage tax break? How does that | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
thing modernisation in the context that the Tories have tried to set | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
out the Conservative party when David Cameron first became leader? | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
That is one of the very first things David Cameron said as leader. He | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
said we are going to support and David Cameron said as leader. He | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
recognise marriage in the tax system, and that will be the case | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
whether it is the marriage between a man and a woman, a woman and a | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
woman, or a man and a man, and it was a very modern approach to an | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
age-old issue. Marriage is important, it is part of the glue | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
that holds society together. Do you accept it is still judging one type | :13:59. | :14:09. | |
of relationship as superior? No, it is just saying there is a social | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
case for recognising marriage. It is interesting that the party doesn't | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
really like the big modernising policies that you have pursued. They | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
have driven your vote is arguably to UKIP, gay marriage and the | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
commitment on foreign aid. That is nothing to do with modernising. | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
Social attitudes have changed. 100 years ago there were plenty of | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
people in the Conservative party and other parties that opposed the | :14:39. | :14:50. | |
enfranchisement of women. Things move on, the commitment to | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
international development I think is one that is honourable and it is the | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
high road, saying that actually it is in Britain's national interest to | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
be the most visible proponent of eradicating global poverty as well | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
as serving our national interest in rooting out those places where | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
poverty breeds terrorism. All of this makes sense in our national | :15:16. | :15:17. | |
interest. leaders do. They lead. I am proud | :15:17. | :15:51. | |
that is a conservative led government. | :15:51. | :16:51. | |
public support equal marriage so we have to get this into proportion. | :16:51. | :17:14. | |
Lynton Crosby is brilliant, he has a great record of success in fighting | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
effective campaigns, disciplined, rigorous, competently run in the way | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
people would be entitled to expect from a Conservative party and I am a | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
big fan. It looks difference, with big banners everywhere, big | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
messages, crying down, immigration down, but when you think back to the | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
early conferences with clouds everywhere and the Big Society, it | :17:40. | :17:52. | |
has all gone, where is it? It hasn't, you are just making | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
pointless assertions. The truth is that we are doing difficult things | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
that provide the best hope for the long-term future of the country. It | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
is all about an optimistic outlook for the country. By doing difficult | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
things now that will give the best hope for people to make the best of | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
things now that will give the best their lives in Britain to prosper in | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
a competitive world and we need to get things right. That won't always | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
be popular. He's attracted large crowds, cheers | :18:18. | :18:54. | |
and standing ovations. But this politician's not a Conservative. The | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
UKIP leader, Nigel Farage, was working the conference fringe | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
yesterday. Here he his explaining his idea for UKIP deals with | :18:59. | :19:07. | |
individual Conservative candidates. There is not going to be a deal | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
between us and the Conservative Party at the next general election. | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
Our voters would not want it, and it would not be in our interests to put | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
Mr Cameron back in office when he wants to continue with membership of | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
the European Union. But, I am not a wholly unreasonable person. And I do | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
recognise that there are some people on the backbenches in the | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
Conservative Party, and some in the Labour Party as well. They feel, as | :19:36. | :19:44. | |
UKIP feel, on most of these key issues. And I think Peter bone and | :19:44. | :19:54. | |
Jacob Rees Mogg and Nadine Dorey 's -- Dorries have made the thought | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
that we could have a cooperation that takes place at local level | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
between UKIP associations or Tory or even Labour Party local | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
associations. Nigel Farage at the Conservative conference, but not | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
quite in it. That is the wonderful building that is Manchester town | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
Hall he was speaking up. UKIP clearly a big issue at the Tory | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
conference and we are joined by the deputy chairman, Neil Hamilton. | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Nigel Farage is making this deal to | :20:27. | :20:35. | |
individual constituencies. What would be the conditions of such a | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
deal? I think it was a bit of a teal. -- a bit of a tease. He was | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
putting the UKIP cat amongst the Tory pigeons. They have been | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
flapping around. I don't think there is a UKIP branch that would want to | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
do a deal with the Tories, why would we want to align ourselves to a | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
toxic brand? Jacob Rees Mogg's seat, I was talking to the chairman | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
there, and he said there was no way the party would do a deal with the | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
Tories to give Jacob Rees Mogg a shoo-in for the next Parliament. We | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
know that a national deal will not be done. Mr Raju and Mr Cameron have | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
made it clear. But you think there will not be any deals at a local | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
level -- Nigel Farage and Mr Cameron. You don't think there will | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
be any at constituency level? I haven't spoken to every branch | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
around the country, but with UKIP going up and the Tories in freefall | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
why we would want to arrest our skyrocketing way forward. It sounds | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
to me like you would be against it if they constituency wanted to do | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
it. I'm not saying he would try to stop it, but you would say no. Nigel | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
said that local constituencies are free to enter such a deal if they | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
wanted. Our national executive will look at each individual application | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
on a one by one basis and decide whether this is a sensible thing to | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
do or not. So you could stop the consistency from doing it if it was | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
so minded to? We could do that, but I think it's a pretty academic | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
discussion. I think it was just Nigel being naughty. I'm delighted | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
to be sitting next June, Neil, old friends, but I have to take issue | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
with you on this. You say this is an academic discussion -- next to you. | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
There was your lead on a public platform promising they would not do | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
a deal with the Tories, but on the other hand we might do deals with | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
the Tories. You are coming in and saying it is nonsense. Which side | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
actually wins? Politicians do frequently say things they do not | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
mean. Yesterday to reason they were saying we might be taken out of the | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
European Union human rights intervention, and there is no way | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
that they would take them out of the European human rights Convention. | :22:47. | :22:57. | |
You would have do leave the EU. What was the lie that Nigel Farage -- the | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
lie that Nigel Farage told yesterday? He didn't. Heat you said | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
he said something he didn't mean. He said we would consider the | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
partnership proposal on its merit. It sounds unlikely though. It is | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
unlikely. You would fight along with Jacob Rees Mogg, Nadine Dorries, you | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
would put UKIP people up against them? I know for certain that in the | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
seat of Jacob Rees Mogg, excellent man though he is, I like him along, | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
and he adds something to the House of Commons. On personal grounds, I | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
would regret his departure. But UKIP of Commons. On personal grounds, I | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
is now a political party, not a fringe pressure group. We are out to | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
win elections and we are doing it well. What is the evidence you will | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
win elections and we are doing it win any seats at the next general | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
election? If you look at the local results of May on a parliamentary | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
aggregate basis, we would have won several seats. We are going into | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
this European election campaign as the odds-on favourite to win | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
nationwide. We are looking to cause an earthquake in British politics | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
next year and change the ground rules for the 2015 general election. | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
It is likely the earthquake you will cause come the general election is | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
that you probably won't win a single seat yourself, but you will take | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
enough votes away from the Tories to let Ed Miliband in. I've given you | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
the names of half a dozen constituencies which we would have | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
won. General election, as you know, constituencies which we would have | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
as you fall them for the big parties, is very difficult. The | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
smaller parties, including the Lib Dems, it is much harder to get a | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
look in. Of course, and the first past the post election system is not | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
look in. Of course, and the first in the interest of the smaller | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
parties. I could add that in Eastleigh we had a by-election in | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
February where UKIP was 1500 votes short of winning it and it was the | :24:56. | :25:11. | |
Tories that split our vote. How many do you expect to win? I'm not going | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
to put a figure on it. I might underestimate the numbers. I | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
wouldn't want to. That is how underestimate the numbers. I | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
politics is, you play down expectations. Five? Ten? If you go | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
to the bookmakers they will give you the odds. You talked about the fox | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
going amongst the chickens, has the UKIP Fox been shot because of the | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
issue that will dominate the next general election, which is do you | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
want a referendum on Europe or not? At the moment there is only one | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
party capable of delivering that, which is the Conservative Party. We | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
are going to have a voter referendum long before that because I'm going | :25:41. | :25:53. | |
to turn the European elections into the referendum that David Cameron | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
has kicked into the long grass. That will be people 's opportunity. Are | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
you going to do this single-handed? I have a huge team working with me. | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
It's not really a referendum though, is it. What is it about some | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
of your members. We have had talk of bongo bongo land, women as sluts, | :26:04. | :26:11. | |
of your members. We have had talk of and now you're chief spin doctor | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
says that a journalist is of some form of ethnic extraction. It is | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
pretty desperate stuff. We don't know the background, evidently. He | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
was taking a message on a noisy train and could not catch the name | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
of the journalist that the party official was going to meet. He knew | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
that it was a name from the Indian subcontinent of some kind, so all he | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
said is what is of of ethnic extraction. Is that not a PC phrase | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
question what he could have said Black, Asian or more pejorative word | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
-- is that not a PC phrase? We all of some form ethnic extraction. | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
What's wrong with it? If I wanted to say, by the way, Neil Hamilton is on | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
the train, and I forget what he looks like and he is of some form of | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
ethnic extraction, I would use that for you? That is ridiculous. This is | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
a bad smell. I can tell you what is happening here. This is a desperate | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
attempt by the establishment to stop UKIP's rise in its tracks. Here is a | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
photograph which purports to show Nigel Farage with a Hitler | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
moustache. It is not a joke. He has a halo as well. This is what the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
Murdoch press is doing because it's also in the Sun newspaper today. | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
They are desperately scared that UKIP is going to shoot the Tories's | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
Fox come the next election. It is not them who want to see the | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
European Union question you better take it up better with him -- with | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
him, you know him better than I do. Would you use the phrase some form | :27:45. | :27:52. | |
of ethnic extraction? What's wrong with it? That's caught you out. | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
Well, I was just letting it hang there. I am happy to take it to the | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
borough public opinion. You just have, on the Daily Politics. Neil | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
Hamilton, thank you. The blonde bombshell has hit the conference. He | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
admitted on TV last night that he did not know the price of milk, but | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
he seemed unperturbed as he received the usual adulation in the | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
conference hall. Good morning everybody in Manchester, great joy | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
to be back here. Not so long ago, my friends, and we welcome all sorts of | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
wonderful luminaries to City Hall, and a few months ago I welcome the | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
former French prime ministers. -- Prime Minister. He cruised in with | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
his sizeable retinue of very distinguished fellows, and he shook | :28:38. | :28:47. | |
hands, and we had a tete-a-tete, and he told me that he was now the mayor | :28:47. | :28:54. | |
of Bordeaux and he do things like that once you've been Prime | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
Minister. Very good idea, in my view. Joke! Joke! And he said to | :28:57. | :29:06. | |
accelerate the programme of house-building dramatically, and | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
it's time we considered allowing companies to make tax-free loans to | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
their employees to help them with the cost of their rent deposit. How | :29:16. | :29:23. | |
about that? A brainy policy, yes? Put it into the budget | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
considerations. Can I also ask to my friend, the Chancellor, to look at | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
the baleful effects of stamp duty in London, and possibly elsewhere? It | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
is called stamp duty for a reason, because it's stamping on the figures | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
-- fingers of those who are trying to climb the property ladder. The | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
choice of the next election is very simple. It's between the fool 's | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
gold of Labour gimmicks, which we all understand and have all fought | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
before, and a government that is willing to take tough and sensible | :29:56. | :30:03. | |
decisions. To cut unnecessary spending, and make the key | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
investments in transport and infrastructure and housing and in | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
our communities that will take this country forward. I know what I want. | :30:10. | :30:17. | |
What I want as mayor of the greatest city on earth. I think I know what | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
you want. Am I right? I know that we can do it. So let's go over it over | :30:22. | :30:30. | |
the next two years. Cut that yellow Liberal Democrat albatross from | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
around our necks and let it drop into the sea, by working flat out | :30:33. | :30:45. | |
for David Cameron as Prime Minister and outright conservative victory in | :30:45. | :30:55. | |
2015. Aki very much. Boris Johnson speaking this morning. In his | :30:55. | :31:12. | |
Conference speech yesterday, George Osborne urged Conservative party | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
activists to back the government's High Speed Rail plans. The | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
Chancellor told the conference in Manchester that HS2 would bring | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
"more jobs and prosperity" to Britain. But were party members | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
convinced? We asked Adam to find out. When we did this at the Labour | :31:23. | :31:32. | |
conference last week, it was 50/50. And the box fell over, and the balls | :31:32. | :31:41. | |
fell out. HS2, construct or cancel? We are builders, definitely. Will it | :31:41. | :31:50. | |
definitely happen? I don't want it but I think we need it. Construct. | :31:50. | :32:03. | |
It is only going to benefit a small minority of people, with such | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
disruption and it will not happen for 20 or 30 years, we need that | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
money ploughing into the economy now. Are you pro HS2? I am a | :32:11. | :32:20. | |
constructor. It will make a huge difference because we have capacity | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
constraints, we need to link the city is better. Is Boris signed up | :32:25. | :32:33. | |
to HS2? You would have to ask Boris. I am not a fan of trains. They | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
always go to one destination, don't they? It is massively overcrowded, | :32:40. | :32:47. | |
it is not about speed, it is about capacity and we need good | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
connectivity to Sheffield and Huddersfield where I live. I think | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
it is unnecessary and I don't think the capacity argument adds up | :32:58. | :33:05. | |
either. I have changed my cancel to construct. In the space of one | :33:05. | :33:17. | |
morning? My polling is only what other people think. I don't trust | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
morning? My polling is only what big projects like Concorde or the | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
millennium Dome, they tend not to go well. David, would you like to take | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
part in a Daily Politics survey? I am surprised at the moment you have | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
more on that side than on that side. Maybe it is stuck on a slow train. | :33:41. | :33:51. | |
It is a huge amount of money to be spending without the infrastructure | :33:51. | :33:59. | |
in the area, so cancel. Construct. It is about making the capacity | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
doubles. There we go, a massive majority in favour of construction. | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
I have to say, while a lot of people were inspired by George Osborne's | :34:10. | :34:19. | |
pep talk on the subject. Interesting, I didn't think there | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
would be such an overwhelming majority. Do you agree with them? I | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
am sceptical. I don't think the case has been made as well as it should | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
be. Goodness knows what the cost will be in ten years. The cost will | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
go up and up. I remember the row in the House of Lords and indeed the | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
House of Commons a little while ago about the west line fiasco with the | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
Department of Transport really being seen to be incapable. The transport | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
Department of Transport really being Secretary now says we have the | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
Olympic dream team running the project, said David Higgins and Lord | :34:59. | :35:07. | |
Deayton. Does that reassure you a little more? Yes, but there are | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
still big questions to be answered and the Government has to go the | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
extra mile to satisfy sceptics that this is really good value for money. | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
We should be sceptical, this was a project from the last Labour | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
Government and as a decent Tory I am always sceptical! Labour look as if | :35:27. | :35:34. | |
they are wobbling in terms of value for money, would you encourage Tory | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
MPs to back Labour if they withdraw support for HS2? The Government need | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
to do more explaining of the costs and making us convinced because it | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
does have a chequered track record, that it can deliver on budget, on | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
time. The problem is that supporters of HS2 say we will never build | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
anything in this country, there will always be scepticism about whether a | :36:02. | :36:09. | |
project is value for money. Like Heathrow's third runway. Why is HS2 | :36:09. | :36:16. | |
so much more important? To quote Patrick McLoughlin, he said the | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
high-speed line would leave the country stronger and provide a boost | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
for the great cities like Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
Nottingham, Derby. This will create a link between the north and the | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
South and the people down south, he says, should stop moaning. One | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
conference speech is not enough. This is such a massive project, it | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
need selling to the hilt and I don't think we have done that yet. Now, | :36:45. | :36:57. | |
you never know who you're going to bump into at Tory party conference. | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
One minute you could be rubbing shoulders with Eric Pickles, the | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
next hanging out with Alastair Campbell. Yes, that's right Tony | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
Blair's former Director of Communication,s Alastair Campbell. | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
We found him enjoying the stands in the exhibition hall. So what on | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
earth is a former Labour spin doctor doing at the Conservative | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
conference? It is my first Tory conference for 20 years and I am | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
here to have a row with loads of Tories, and secondly to persuade | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
them to do a U-turn on the U-turn David Cameron did and get serious | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
about dealing with alcohol abuse in Britain. Why did David Cameron say | :37:25. | :37:39. | |
he would bring in minimum unit pricing and why has he since decided | :37:39. | :37:48. | |
he will not? In Scotland it is considered a more serious issue with | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
more worrying figures in the north. I personally support it. You will | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
not find many students in favourable as a nation we know it is a concern. | :37:57. | :38:04. | |
Are you going to get drunk tonight? Why, are you coming along? No! That | :38:04. | :38:19. | |
is a bad picture of Ed Miliband, he looks like desperate Dan. What is | :38:19. | :38:30. | |
funny is that he said a lot of the Tories were deciding which beer to | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
choose, and he whispered to me they were all the same. You lose your | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
argument when you start finger jabbing. So you are selling, you | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
have the Labour beer here and the Tory beer over here. Margaret | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
Thatcher is the God of the beer with body. ELVIS SINGS are you going to | :38:50. | :39:33. | |
sing with me? I'm sorry, sir, I have got to go and | :39:33. | :39:40. | |
do my show. Will you support me on minimum unit pricing for alcohol? | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
Why did Cameron say he would do it and then decide, after a Cabinet | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
discussion they claim... You know better than me how these things work | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
behind the scenes. Don't you think we have a real problem with alcohol | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
abuse in Britain? There are a number of areas we can try to address and | :40:02. | :40:09. | |
needless to say we must look carefully at some of those issues. I | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
have had a nice time, more importantly many people agreed with | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
me and I will take that back to Alcohol Concern because this is a | :40:19. | :40:27. | |
fight we can win. Who would have thought Alistair Campbell could find | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
inspiration in an Elvis song. What about this minimum alcohol pricing, | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
was Mr Cameron right to do a U-turn on it? Firstly I want to say that | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
Alistair Campbell has done a huge amount of good in terms of attention | :40:45. | :40:52. | |
to alcohol problems and mental illness so I am looking forward to | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
taking his advice when I share a platform with him at the Cheltenham | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
Festival in a couple of weeks. We won't be singing Elvis. Was he right | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
to do a U-turn? All prime ministers are allowed to try something and | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
change their minds. If you enter are allowed to try something and | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
those things with a fixed point of view, it means you cannot take the | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
advice that inevitably comes when these things become a matter of | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
public discussion. Should he have changed his mind? I think he | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
probably should because I don't think that was the right way of | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
doing it. You can explain that to Alistair Campbell in Cheltenham when | :41:33. | :41:46. | |
you see him. Now - they're terribly helpful | :41:46. | :42:04. | |
people these Conservatives. Earlier in the week they announced they'd be | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
extending Help To Buy then yesterday the Chancellor announced "help to | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
work" This is the latest scheme to get the long term unemployed back to | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
work here's Jo Co with all the details. Currently, if you've been | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
unemployed for up to a year and want to claim the dole the you have to go | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
on the Work Programme. This scheme provides training and help in | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
getting back into work. But those who are still jobless after two | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
years on the scheme will now face a tougher regime as a condition for | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
staying on benefits. Yesterday the Chancellor announced the 'Help to | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
Work' programme. Under the plans, the 200,000 people a year who failed | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
to get a job under the Work Programme will lose benefits unless | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
they take up one of three options. Six months of community work - such | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
as making meals for the elderly, cleaning up litter and graffiti or | :42:51. | :43:06. | |
charity work. Sign on at the JobCentre every day to search for | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
work or undergo intense training or rehabilitation. Refusal to do so | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
will result in the loss of benefits for up to three months. Let's have a | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
listen to what the Work and Pensions Secretary had to to say about his | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
plans earlier today. Today I want to tell you about those who are not | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
plans earlier today. Today I want to committing to their obligations of | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
work. Prior to the work programme we will pilot a mandatory attendance | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
centre where selected individuals will receive expert support and | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
supervision while they search and apply for jobs. That is from nine | :43:33. | :43:40. | |
o'clock to five o'clock, 35 hours a week for up to six months simulating | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
the working day. These pilots will be targeted at claimants who will | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
benefit from the intense support, one pilot before the Work | :43:51. | :44:03. | |
Programme, and one after. Alongside this, this marks the something for | :44:03. | :44:13. | |
-- the end of the something for nothing culture. And the Secretary | :44:14. | :44:24. | |
of State for Work and Pensions, Iain Duncan Smith, joins me now. Coming | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
up with measures to get the unemployed back to work, that has | :44:27. | :44:34. | |
become your life 's work so why did George Osborne make the big policy | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
announcement yesterday? We agreed to divide up the announcements, so I am | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
dealing with the stuff prior to the Work Programme, which will | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
eventually be enormously helpful in making sure that we don't have to | :44:49. | :45:00. | |
have so much work so together they make a complete package. He got the | :45:00. | :45:07. | |
big one, didn't he? No, I believe the big one is about us targeting | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
people who are looking like they are not able to get themselves ready for | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
work, they are struggling, before they even get to the Work | :45:15. | :45:22. | |
Programme, which is revolutionary. We are asking JobCentre staff to | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
really start looking and profiling the people in front of them so they | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
spend more time with the people who need help to get them ready and make | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
sure that in the course of that they are not also doing something else | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
and that is critical to making both announcements successful. As you | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
know better than most, it has re-stirred the bad blood stories | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
between you and the Chancellor, going back before the coalition. | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
What do you make of this claim, which seems incredible to me, in | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
this new book that the Chancellor regards you as thick? Well, I heard | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
and saw him in the last couple of days saying it is completely untrue. | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
Honestly, I've been in politics long enough and I've had plenty of | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
insults thrown at me. The Chancellor, George and me, are very | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
good friends and I don't think he's ever said it. If anybody believes | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
that kind of thing out there, that's fine, I'm in good company. Margaret | :46:20. | :46:27. | |
Thatcher was told he was not -- was told she was not intelligent enough | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
to run the country, and so was Sir Winston Churchill. I've got the | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
determination and drive and I will let others debate the level of | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
intelligence I have. So he does not need to think? -- he does not think | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
you are thick. I'm not too worried about it. You are putting great | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
emphasis on people who are long-term unemployed to sign up and go to job | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
centres to do a lot of things to stay at the job centres. You talked | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
about going from nine to five. Is that because you think a lot of | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
people on welfare or benefits are actually also working in the black | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
economy? This is not directly set for that, but we do know two things | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
economy? This is not directly set about this. When I go around the job | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
centres, and you know this because you've done a lot of work in this | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
area in the last few years, and often wrote about it, well in | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
advance of many of us, but the reality is that what happens out | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
there is that some people when they have left work for different issues | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
and problems and they fall out of the habit of work, they lose morale | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
and they cannot focus on it, really it is about getting them back ready | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
for work. But there are also some, we know that, who are out there and | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
deliberately playing the system. We know that, that is what the job | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
centre staff tell us and we have a new sanction for them. We also have | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
the mandatory work programme where we believe they are trying to do | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
something else. We found that 70% of people just disappeared off the | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
benefit role. This is about accommodation thing -- a combination | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
of things, it's about getting people not ready for work ready for work | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
before they fall out of the habit completely. You have been unemployed | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
twice before. Do you think picking up litter or serving meals to older | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
people help you find a job? Know, the point I am making is that the | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
vast majority of people who fall into unemployment are incredibly | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
motivated, something like 75 or 80% backing work in six months. You | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
don't really have to do huge amounts with them because they are out there | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
working and they just need a bit of assistance, not much. You then begin | :48:36. | :48:37. | |
working and they just need a bit of to deal with those who are a | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
distance from going back to work. It is this group, and they do it in | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
Germany now, where they profile better than we do, to look at those | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
who have issues and problems that are causing them to fall away from | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
work. It is that group who you want to get back into the practice. To | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
begin with, we want them to be in there if necessary, signing in, but | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
also working with the staff every day to look for jobs. After the work | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
programme, the bit about doing community work, that comes after two | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
more years where they might struggle. Now it's the time to get | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
them to do something every day that gives them a sense of purpose in | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
their lives. That is really what it's all about. But you have already | :49:17. | :49:24. | |
got this work programme, and now we have the help to work programme. | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
They're all manners of programmes. There are almost as many programmes | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
as unemployed people. It seems a lot of these programmes don't really | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
work. The latest figures shows that fewer than 15% of those on the work | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
programme have found themselves in work for at least six months. 15%. | :49:42. | :49:49. | |
Hold on. Remember, we don't pay any of the providers until they have | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
sustained a six-month outcome. That can take up to two starts to get to | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
six months, but the reality is, of those going back into work is a much | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
bigger number. There are 400,000 people now of those that they have | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
taken on who are backing work, far more than just a six-month outcome. | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
And remember, it's not just about getting them into work, the work | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
programme sees three quarters of those on the first tranche who have | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
left benefits. So it is about getting people off benefits and | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
getting them into work. Three quarters of those have either gone | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
back into work, sustained work, or have left the benefit roster. That | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
is a major success. Bear in mind previously that these providers who | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
is a major success. Bear in mind paid up front, lots of money, they | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
never achieved anything. This is more successful than any other | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
programme. You and your party always going on about the need to make it | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
paid to work and it should always be more benefit -- beneficial than | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
spending time on the dole, which is fine, why therefore have you allowed | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
the minimum wage under the Coalition Government to fall in real terms? | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
You are increasing it today, but it's only by pennies. If you really | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
wanted to make it worthwhile, have a proper, higher minimum wage. Most of | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
these people will go on to minimum wage jobs to begin with. So make it | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
worth their while. Pay them a decent minimum wage. Well, the reason we | :51:11. | :51:18. | |
have raised it is to start achieving the objective. But as we bring in | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
various other changes the idea is to ensure that that first entry into | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
work does make work pay more than being on benefits. That will happen. | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
The debate about the minimum wage and living wage, I am clear about | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
it. In my own department and with the contractors now, we paid a | :51:34. | :51:41. | |
living wage. This is a debate not just with us, it's about the Labour | :51:41. | :51:48. | |
Party. Why let it fall? We have raised the minimum wage. Not in real | :51:48. | :51:55. | |
terms. It was the Tories who let the minimum wage fall. In picking up the | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
pieces of a disastrous economy, first and foremost we have to ensure | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
people get back to work. As we pick the economy we might make the | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
changes that are necessary, but right now, honestly, the key thing | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
is to get jobs produced. We have over 1.4 million new private jet -- | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
sector jobs that have been created as a result of the changes made. You | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
can't do everything at once. I'm not resistant to the argument, I'm | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
simply saying that the priority now is to get people back to work, as we | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
know that jobs tend to develop and you'll pay tends to go up as you | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
develop your skills. As you know, we can't cover everything in one | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
interview, and I hope you can come back and we can cover some of the | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
ground. Iain Duncan Smith, thank you. And with us now is Iain Duncan | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
Smith's opposite number, Labour's Liam Byrne. Are you, and do you | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
welcome a policy from the Conservatives that could finally | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
address the problem of long-term unemployment? Yes, if we had a | :52:51. | :52:57. | |
policy that we thought would do the job, we would welcome it with open | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
arms, but that's not where we are. Why? Because the plan we heard from | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
the Chancellor yesterday would only affect 2% of job seekers, and | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
frankly that when make much of a difference. In terms of long-term | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
unemployment, people who have been out of work for two years, the | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
Tories argue that the number of households were no member has ever | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
worked doubled under labour from 136,000 in June 1997 to 269,000 in | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
June 2010. Do you accept that? Obviously the recession had an | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
impact on unemployment. So, it doubled, on what they are trying to | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
do is alleviate the number of people who are out of work longer than two | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
do is alleviate the number of people years by taking these three stages? | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
Do you not support that? We don't think what they have put on the | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
table will make anywhere like enough difference. What evidence do you | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
have for that? Look what's happened over the last couple of weeks. They | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
show that 1 million people have now been failed by the work programme, | :53:57. | :54:04. | |
and eight out of ten people who float through the work programme | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
don't go on to get a steady job. Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
does not think Iain Duncan Smith is clever enough to do his job, and | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
said when he came to the spending review that the DWP was failing in | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
its back to work programme. This is not just the arguments of Liam | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
Byrne, these are the arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer as | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
well. Do you welcome the fact that workless households are at record | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
lows, despite the fact we have continued to be in a recession until | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
recently? Any progress on unemployment is good news. That must | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
be as a result of government policy then. You have a million people out | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
of work long term and a million young people out of work. You have a | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
welfare bill that is £20 billion higher than before -- forecast. | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
There is no way you can look at the figures and say well done, great | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
job. That is why we said you need a much bigger, bolder, more radical | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
approach. We have said there should be a two-year limit on the amount of | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
time you can spend on jobseeker's allowance, and at that stage will | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
benefit payment should stop and you should get a job in the private | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
sector, and if you can't find one, we will invest in making sure their | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
minimum wage opportunities. You would like to go for a bigger, | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
bolder programme. But let's look again at the fact that the number of | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
workless households, which was a big issue that you made something else | :55:18. | :55:33. | |
-- of, is at record lows, that must have something to do with the | :55:33. | :55:36. | |
success in some way of the welfare reforms? The unemployment figures | :55:36. | :55:37. | |
speak for themselves. Just the workless households, because that's | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
an indicator. You cannot duck the fact, and this is the reality, is | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
there 1 million people who are out of work long-term, 1 million young | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
people out of work, and those figures aren't moving. You have a | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
work programme that we were promised would be the biggest back to work | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
programme in human history, so big you could see it from space. We now | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
know from the figures last year it failed 1 million people, and eight | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
out of ten people who go through it don't actually get a steady job. You | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
said after two years, and that is wrong. This is after three years. | :56:02. | :56:11. | |
Remember that someone is out of work for a year, then they go onto the | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
work programme for two years, and at that stage, after three years on | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
welfare eight out of ten people that stage, after three years on | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
don't get a steady job. That is a programme that is failing | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
catastrophically. What do you say to that, Michael? Would pay Labour | :56:21. | :56:29. | |
government spend more? You want to achieve more but spend less? We want | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
the welfare bill to go down completely. It is a track record of | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
failure here because they have not got the country back to work. The | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
problem is that the Labour Party goes round the country denying it | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
has anything to do with the economic circumstances that it left behind, | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
and you are the man who said that, notoriously, infamously, that there | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
is no money left. So how can we find anything that the Labour Party says | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
credible if you can achieve more and spend less? Three years ago we were | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
promised a welfare revolution and it was collapsed. We heard a 13 under | :57:07. | :57:16. | |
Labour. Is employment going up or down at the moment? I think the | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
statistics say it is going up? There's not enough work to go round, | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
and that is why... Where is the trend? Up or down? Wages have not | :57:28. | :57:33. | |
risen as fast as prices in the last 13 months. In my constituency, that | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
means that living standards are being hammered. What does the | :57:37. | :57:38. | |
means that living standards are government used to do to help? Give | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
a tax cut to millionaires while everybody else has tax and benefit | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
changes that means they are £820 a year worse. This is a government | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
that stands up the privileged few while the rest of us take a kicking. | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
Your proposal for a jobs guarantee scheme, can you see yourselves | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
Your proposal for a jobs guarantee taking away the benefits of those | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
who take -- do not take away a guaranteed job? Yes. There you go, | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
you can get a straight answer. He sounds almost like a Tory at times. | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
They may say there is no money around, but at this party conference | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
season they have been spending it around, but at this party conference | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
the parties like never before. Time to go, but the answer to the quiz | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
was which of these shoes do not belong to to reason me -- to raise a | :58:20. | :58:29. | |
May. -- to raise a May. YELLOW the wellies. It has to be those black | :58:29. | :58:37. | |
things up the top. They belong to a Conservative MP called Cheryl | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
Murray. The one o'clock News is starting over on BBC One o'clock | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
news is starting over on BBC One now. We are here very early | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
tomorrow, at 10:30am. You will have to get up early. David Cameron's big | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
speech, we will bring you live in an to get up early. David Cameron's big | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
interrupted tomorrow. Goodbye. | :58:55. | :58:56. |