Browse content similar to 30/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Don't all show that | :00:36. | :00:48. | |
once... -- shed at once, but some of Britain's energy companies to | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
greedy? Perish the thought. We will be talking to the boss of a wee | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
energy firm who thinks they are. He plans to investigate the market that | :00:56. | :01:04. | |
will be looked at by the Government tomorrow. And in the interests of | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
saving energy, we will be harnessing the hot air of this week PMQs. | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
It's round two of when Mo met Tommy. We'll be talking to the former | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
leader of the EDL. And is the NHS engine over-heating? | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
We'll be talking to one health specialist who has this rather scary | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
warning? All that and more in the next | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
ever-increasing wave of demand, it will soon break down. | :01:27. | :01:41. | |
We are coping here this morning, but more of that in the next 90 minutes. | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
And with as for the duration, Westminster's finest double act. | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
Their agents told me to say that. Al and Vern. It could be one word, Alan | :01:55. | :02:04. | |
Byrne. In pursuit of public service broadcasting, iota of vessel, they | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
were all we could afford. The International Development Minister | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
Alan Duncan and the shiny new Shadow Defence Secretary, big Vernon Coker. | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
Welcome to you both. Since I have you both here, international aid, | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
defence, should some of the aid budget be taken to help our | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
stretched forces? People think that if you took the aid budget and | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
transferred it to defence, it would make all the difference but we | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
worked so well together already. The defence budget is three and a half | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
times the size of the total development budget, but we work very | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
closely together in lots of conflict ridden places in the world and at | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
the moment, we have pressing requirement in Syria and outside | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
Syria in what is the biggest humanitarian intervention. The | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
defence budget is being slashed, yours is being increased. If you | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
want me to give money to him, if he were in Government would you want to | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
take money away from people who are eating cats and dogs in Damascus? | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
You know that is not the choice, because that kind of aid, that goes | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
directly to help people in real need, is a very small percentage of | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
your 10 billion. You gave... Two thirds of your budget goes through | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the World Bank, the EU, the UN, three bywords for waste and | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
profligacy. I don't think so, but you are right, there is a | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
significant element, 40%, that goes to multilateral organisations, much | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
of it which would happen if there was not a department for | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
International development, but don't me the United Nations is not doing | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
important stuff to feed people, to help them, keep the peace -- then | :03:47. | :03:55. | |
tell. You know how much they waste. It is very glib to say get rid of | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
them all, we know what they do and we keep a beady eye on them to make | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
sure we get value for the money we give them. You have been attacking | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
the Government for numbers only terror shall -- numbers in the | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
territorial Army, trying to beef it up, but wouldn't you need to come if | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
you are trying to do it, for extra money for defence? What we are | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
saying is the Government has one problem of reform, it is in trouble | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
in the number of reservists that are being used to take the place of the | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
number of full-time soldiers. So it is a reform problem. We should they | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
should pause, with respect to that, to see if it will save them any | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
money or whether actually, there is a better way of doing it. I | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
understand what you mean but if you were to stop this move of a | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
rebalancing towards a bigger reservist army, that would cost you | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
more money in the short run as professional soldiers are more | :04:50. | :04:51. | |
expensive. Where would you get that from? That is why you posted, it is | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
not about spending more money, it is about looking to see what is | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
happening with respect to the reform programme that the Government is | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
pursuing, and there are some doubts as to whether it will actually save | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
any money at all. He was the interesting thing that people don't | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
understand. That -- hearers. We give ?450 million a year to Pakistan | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
while we slash around defence budgets to give us the smallest army | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
since the Napoleonic war. And yet Pakistan spends how much of its | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
national budget on defence? I agree that... Let me tell you. They spend | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
54% of all federal spending in Pakistan on defence. So we give them | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
a small amount of money, so that they can do something with the | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
appalling poverty there, although it is only on the edges, while they | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
spent over half of their money on something we are slashing, called | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
defence. Explain the logic? If we don't act as we are acting in | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
Pakistan, this is the country where some of the greatest dangers in the | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
world could emanate, including having the nuclear balance next door | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
with India. So what we do in Pakistan can make an enormous amount | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
of difference. If you had a Pakistan incomplete decay, the costs of | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
curing that problem would far exceed the money spent... You cannot claim | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
that 450 million is making a difference to whether Pakistan goes | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
over the edge or not, let's be serious. It makes a contribution to | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
that but we are also focusing on course on pressing polity, there is | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
pretty ghastly poverty in Pakistan and we don't turn our backs on | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
people who don't know where their next meal is coming from. Of course, | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
they would if they didn't spend half of their budget on defence in the | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
Pakistan Government. Today, the Privy Council, the group | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
of senior ministers who advise the Queen, is due to head to Buckingham | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
Palace to finally approve the Royal Charter and press regulation. Once | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
it is approved, following the ideals of the Levinson choir is a done | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
deal, but the press has other ideas, trying to put the charter on hold. | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
Ross Hawkins watches all things Levinson, so we don't have to, a | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
very admirable role. -- Levenson. What is happening? | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
The weight of deja vu is crashing. We have been on the traffic island | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
in front of this court before four months and months, hearing from Lord | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
Justice Leveson, thinking it would be sorted out, but it wasn't | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
anywhere near. Today, finally settling on the version of a Royal | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
Charter to help regulate the press that the political parties agree on, | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
surely it will be over them? Apparently not. What the press are | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
trying to do is get an injunction to say that that meeting cannot go | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
ahead, Her Majesty cannot give the seal on this. They say that because | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
the way that version of the press charter was dealt with was unfair, | :08:02. | :08:09. | |
we heard in there that there was practically a Kafkaesque situation. | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
Two judges looking wisely over their glasses at a QC. I wouldn't dare | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
predict what judgement they will come to, but it is possible but at | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
the end of this hearing, the Queen and ministers get told, I am awfully | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
sorry, you cannot make a decision today because the lawyers will not | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
let you. Ross Hawkins, thank you. Joining us | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
is the Sun columnist Trevor Kavanagh. You are trying to hold | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
this progress for a Royal Charter, but what you really want is delayed, | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
because more delay will mean that this could be kicked into the long | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
grass and you can go ahead and set up your own regulator. No, we want a | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
regulator. We want clarity. What we have is a fudge and this is a | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
political attempt to control the press by state statute, and it has | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
been stitched up in secret in late-night meetings between parties | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
that do not involve the newspaper industry, and the Privy Council, | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
which meets in secret. We don't even know who is in the Privy Council. | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
You don't know the players at this point, you will know afterwards, but | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
what is missing in terms of clarity? Transparency, for one thing. But you | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
know what is being proposed. We do. The simple fact is we don't know who | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
is making the decision, how they are doing so, where they are even | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
meeting, in fact. When the initial plan was put together, it was at | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
3am, involving political party leaders in the office of Ed | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
Miliband, attended by the campaigning group Hacked Off, and no | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
representation from the newspaper groups. And it was proposed, not | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
voluntarily agreed, but we have put one forward that covers everything | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
that Leveson suggested except it does not require state legislation. | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
What will you do if the High Court bid today fails? I suspect we will | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
continue to operate under the terms of the charter we set up. Will that | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
be up and running by January? I should think so. So nothing is going | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
to change your mind in terms of signing up to what has been proposed | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
by the Government? Nobody is going to sign up, I think, to state | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
control. Do you know that for a fact? It is going to be a case of | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
safety in numbers, so if everybody stays on board, along the lines you | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
have said that, then you are going to have a much bigger stick to try | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
and beat the Government with. Are you worried that some of them may | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
pull away if the Royal Charter goes ahead today? It is always possible, | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
but if anything, they are getting more together than falling apart, so | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
I think the Government measures are not wholly supported, even within | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
the Government. So I think that there is plenty of room, even | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
there, for negotiation and manoeuvre. I wouldn't be surprised | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
if something crops up. Is there room for negotiation? What happens, Alan | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
Duncan, if the charter is sealed today and the press, the main | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
groups, say no. It is absurd to call the state control. All it is doing | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
is setting up a framework within which they can be a process of | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
independent regulation, so that neither Trevor know I know Vernon | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
can make a judgement over the press -- nor I, nor Vernon. What we have | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
lacked over many years is a genuine independent, really sort of process | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
of address. Some members of the press have behaved abominably and | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
many who think they are the victims of bad press contact me Natalie feel | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
they have no means of redress -- bad press conduct feel they have no | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
means of redress. This is doing something about it. But my question | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
is, what you do if the say no? They will run the risk of damages and | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
don't sign up? I don't know the immediate answer. So many people are | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
so bamboozled about what has really happened since Levenson, they are in | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
a muddle. If you are to as people in the street what this charter is | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
about, they will say they don't understand. But my understanding is, | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
as I have just explain that if the press do not somehow sign up to it, | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
it is a pity, because they came up with a proposal that was not | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
compliant with what Lord Justice Leveson suggested. Yes it was, it | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
was completely compliant. It was voluntary, it covered everything he | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
recommended. It wanted former editors to sit on the regulation. | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
What about the composition of those sitting in regulation? Former | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
editors... You have got to have some input from people who know the | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
industry is about. As Ed Miliband Harding in his view since the row | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
about his father with the Daily Mail -- as Ed Miliband hardened in his | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
view? I think he has been motivated all the way through by the fact that | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
we are in a situation that the press backwardly public had lost faith in | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
the complaints procedure. What we are discussing some of the most | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
awful abuses of press abuse that we have seen, cases like Millie Dowler. | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
It is not about regulating the press, as such, it is about how | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
complaints are dealt with, how ree dress is achieved by people in a way | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
which is independent of Parliament, and independent of the press, and I | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
think people would see that as sensible. How determined are the | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
Tories to see this through? I don't think it is the Tories, as such. | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Politicians are trying to find an answer to the long-standing question | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
about how to address the unsatisfactory state of press | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
regulations, as Vernon has just said. In my view, there is nothing | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
in here that would go anywhere near stopping the press saying something | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
they thought was true. As the Americans say, you can put lipstick | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
on a pig and it is still a pig. On that parroted line, we will end it | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
there, thank you. It was billed as the dirty | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
half-dozen meets high noon. But what happened when the big six energy | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
bosses, actually not all of them turned up, their surrogates, | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
appeared before the energy select committee yesterday afternoon? | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Surprise surprise, they defended prices in the rise of wholesale | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
energy. The show was not stolen by any of the MPs doing the cruising | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
but by one Lone Ranger, the managing director of OVO Energy. Here is a | :14:41. | :14:52. | |
flavour of the session. The easiest way I can explain to you | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
what has happened in the wholesale market in terms of pricing is the | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
most expensive price we have paid for wholesale gas in the last four | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
years was in May 2011, 74p, and since then, it has been below 73p | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
for this winter, last winter and next winter. We are buying for next | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
winter at the current price of 69p. So I cannot explain any of these | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
price rises other than they are not the prices that we see in the | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
wholesale market. We effectively ran our retail business as a separate | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
business unit, and one of the things the Labour Party has been talking | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
about is ring fencing generation and retail. That is something that we | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
effectively do and we would support. Is it not just about the | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
biggest problem, that is that consumers can no longer afford to | :15:48. | :15:57. | |
pay their energy bills? In politicising things, what are you | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
going to do for consumers? When it comes to... There are two key things | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
to talk about, all the profits they are? But how can the profits be fair | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
when people cannot afford to pay for energy? Because the second part of | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
this is what we do with the profits. I do not make a 5% profit in my | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
business, if that does not happen, I cannot employ 20,000 people. They | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
are equally members of our society. And cannot afford to operate the | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
company. We make a fraction of what mobile phone company makes. | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
Dashboard off on companies make. Why have written to the Prime Minister | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
and the Secretary of State Colin for a Competition Commission. I | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
fundamentally believe that this market is competitive. But iPods | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
that we are not trusted and therefore I believe that we need to | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
have a very thorough Competition Commission investigation. We're | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
trying to track down where the money is going and last time out was here | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
and the time before then, I said you will never find it. These guys are | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
the best at filibustering in the business. And the Chief Executive of | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
overall energy, you saw in front of the committee yesterday, joins us | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
from Bristol. -- overall energy. I understand that you do not pay the | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
same environmental and social charges, so that must be one reason | :17:36. | :17:44. | |
why you do not charge as much. You are right. Ofgem tried to encourage | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
more competition by allowing exemptions to small suppliers. Over | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
the last couple of years, we have not contributed to the environmental | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
levies. They make up about 4% of the bills and some of the price | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
differences we have seen are more like 14 or 15%. What is the average | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
difference between somebody with British Gas and somebody with you? | :18:07. | :18:14. | |
The average of the four of the big six, the average is about ?165. That | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
is about 14 or 15% higher. But you increased prices in April? We our | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
prices up, having not raise our prices for the whole of last winter. | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
After the warm weather last year, we decided not to have a pricing | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
crease. As it was a cold March and April, we saw a rebound in gas and | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
electricity prices. And that led to us putting up our presence. Like any | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
other energy company, when our wholesale prices go up, our prices | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
will follow. We have always said we would try to keep this to a minimum. | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
But it is not like we will never put up prices. This is not, there is no | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
magic solution. But you said that wholesale prices are lower than they | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
were two years ago and have looked at the costs and that is right. Why | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
have you not reduced your bills? As everybody has said, there are lots | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
of components that make up consumer energy bills. There are | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
environmental and social levies and wholesale gas costs. Last October, | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
we saw network costs going up considerably. This was offset by a | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
temporary fall in wholesale prices so we did not change our price | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
because, on balance, our input costs had not changed. When the wholesale | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
price moved back up again, in April, we had to pass that on. But | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
according to Ofgem, wholesale gas and electricity prices are going to | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
rise this winter, too, and that is why the energy prices have gone up. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
The price we are paying for wholesale gas has not moved | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
significantly in the last two years. Electricity is creeping up but it is | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
a couple of percentage points. All we're saying is that we do not see | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
those price rises in our wholesale costs. If the big six are paying | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
more for gas and electricity, that is a matter for them. What is your | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
profit margins? We hope to make 5% profit per customer. One of the | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
things that makes us different is that we try to make 5% of profit for | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
each customer rather than making a big profit margin on some customers | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
and a loss on others. So your profit margins is no different from the big | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
six? I do not think profits are evil. They are not the problem. I | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
think most consumers would be very happy to have a profitable energy | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
company supplying them as long as they got good service and they felt | :20:57. | :20:58. | |
they were getting good value for money. In the absence of good value | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
for money and good customer service, people look to energy company | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
profits and say that they do not deserve them. I'm not sure whether | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
you have said it but the big six have been accused of being a cartel | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
is a word with a particular meaning, cartels are actually | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
illegal under British and German law. A cartel implies people | :21:20. | :21:28. | |
colluding against the interests of the public. And IFS eyes colluding. | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
Is it your view that they are a cartel? -- and I emphasise. I do not | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
believe that they are a cartel. A cartel implies collusion, and I do | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
not think there are secret meetings somewhere where they decide how much | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
to charge British customers, but they do -- I do think they are as | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
bad as each other. They do not offer a great choice. I would like to see | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
the regulator take a stronger line on promoting competition and, in | :22:04. | :22:05. | |
particular, new entrants into the market like us, although we would be | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
happy to see more entrants offering different business models and | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
therefore more choice. Think we have to be careful. The big six have an | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
important role to play in the energy industry. There is a lot of | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
investment required. We would like to win some of their market share | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
but we're not saying that what they are doing is illegal or in anyway | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
collusive. We just think they are all pretty much the same. You say | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
you're going to have to start paying the green levies next year. | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
Wholesale gas prices, you say, are rising again. And you have to pay | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
the regulated costs of distribution to the National Grid, which because | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
we are building windmills in parts of the world weather is not | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
distribution, that is becoming an expensive part of doing business. I | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
would think that your LO just prices will have to go up to. -- your | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
electricity prices. I will not rule anything out but I can say that we | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
have no plan for a price rise. But they all say that! The boss of aeon | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
said that on the BBC this morning! Michael Heseltine said that when he | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
said he was not running against Margaret Thatcher. -- EON. You're | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
sounding like a politician now! Bad news indeed! If our costs go up and | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
we cannot absorb them, prices will have to go up. We have never claimed | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
to have the magic all it. We do not claim to have a secret answer. -- a | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
magic bullet. We are trying to be as efficient as possible. We do not | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
have any marketing gimmicks to convince customers they are getting | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
a good deal. That forces us to keep our costs down. I hope that we will | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
just be better than the competition. I do not know that we can keep a lid | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
on prices for ever if everyone else's costs are going up. Alan | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
Duncan, are we clearer yet? The Prime Minister, spoke of rolling | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
back the green levies. Are we any clearer on what that means? I think | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
we want to reduce the burden of the green levies. Which ones? That was a | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
remarkable interview because that had the answer. Anger or hatred will | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
not bring down prices. 30 years ago, in the oil business, the traders I | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
worked for drove the big companies out of their dominance. That kind of | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
market power is what we need in the utilities industry. So what is your | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
answer? The answer is that we need more companies like that. That is | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
the answer to your question. My question was, indulge me, and answer | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
the question. What green levies are we talking about? This has not been | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
defined exactly. So you do not know. No. Well, don't waffle, just say you | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
do not know. Peter Helm, the premier egg Djurdjic -- energy expert says | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
that the cost of investing in energy capital is higher so that the costs | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
will be higher, thanks to Labour. I disagree. We said that the should be | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
a price freeze. If we were to win the next election. During that time, | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
we would refund the market and do all the things that we said. But if | :25:39. | :25:45. | |
he removes the levies, he will be able to cut the price, not just | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
freeze at? But nobody has a clue. If global prices have gone up. How can | :25:51. | :26:01. | |
you reform the market? He has no idea what he's talking about. We | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
have to move. As we have been hearing, gas bills are rising, and | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
saw temperatures. Actually, they are falling. Often leaves this morning. | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
The first taste of what I've fought one got back this morning. The | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
clocks have gone back and the nights are drawing in. It is a cliche a | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
second. Our Energy Secretary is investing in knitwear. So we have | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
developed something better. Look at this, the Daily Politics mug cosy. | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
Trendier than Flashdance legwarmers and cuddlier than eight crotch did | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
Ed Davey, even a crotchety Ed Davey. To keep your Daily Politics mug | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
slug. We're not sure if it is machine washable and it may shrink | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
if washed. It was originally part of Hazel Blears' winter wardrobe. Just | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
joking. Very cheeky. This can be yours along | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
with our own Daily Politics mug. Just listen to our JoCo. You would | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
be a net to miss it. Oh, dear! -- a knit. | :27:10. | :27:18. | |
We will remind you how to enter in a minute. Mine is smaller than yours. | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
Can you remember when this happened? If something finished? No, no, no. | :27:21. | :27:35. | |
-- is hunting finished. And all that standards have slipped | :27:36. | :28:34. | |
in Washington over the last few years but for a lawyer, you are | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
remarkably cavalier with any idea of justice. | :28:39. | :28:49. | |
To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, and the tea cosy | :28:50. | :28:59. | |
or whatever you want to call it, set your -- send your answer to our | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
special e-mail address. And you can see the full terms and conditions | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
for Guess The Year on our website: Don't listen to and restoring. We | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
will reveal the answer at the end of the show. -- don't listen to Andrew | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
snoring. And Alan, you are going to knit it for the end of the petition. | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
By wanting a jumper. Anyway, is this a politics programme | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
or a daytime knitting show? Coming up, it is almost midday. Big Ben is | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
behind me. A sunny, autumnal day. With just a tinge of air | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
conditioning. By ministers questions is on its way and James Landale is | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
here. A cornucopia of things that could happen today. What will they | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
do? There is a lot. But there is nothing dominant or obvious. Ed | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
Miliband has done very well on the cost of living so think the | :30:00. | :30:01. | |
temptation will be to on their patch. But because of yesterday's | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
committee hearings, there is not much for him to bite on. He might | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
stay on the same subject or they might go to water or something else | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
like that. Mr Cameron could have fun on labour's Makkah nations over | :30:17. | :30:25. | |
HS2? Definitely that is rich pickings for him. -- imaginations. | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
Hopefully he will have a sub editor who will tell you not to use that | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
word. It is an area where Labour are vulnerable. There is an opportunity | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
for that and eye would be amazed if the whips have not got an MP to ask | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
that question. Straight to the Commons. This morning, I have had | :30:47. | :30:54. | |
meetings with my colleagues and eye There are over 1 million new jobs. | :30:55. | :31:11. | |
We were told that the Government has a programme which would clearly lead | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
to the disappearance of a million jobs. Isn't it time for the person | :31:15. | :31:21. | |
who said that to admit they were wrong and apologise. | :31:22. | :31:29. | |
My honourable friend is absolutely right. The British economy is on the | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
mend. We see unemployment coming down, the numbers in work are going | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
up. Our growth rate is now forecast to be almost three times as fast as | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
German growth. And frankly, the party opposite and the Leader of the | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
Opposition told us we would lose a million jobs. He was absolutely | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
wrong and it is time he got to his feet and told us he was wrong. | :31:52. | :32:08. | |
Mister Speaker, having listened to the select committee hearing | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
yesterday, can the Prime Minister tell us, what is the difference... | :32:12. | :32:23. | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. Can I tell the Prime Minister's PBS, his role is to | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
not his head in the appropriate places and fetch and carry notes. No | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
noise required. Mister Miliband. Having listened to the hearing | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
yesterday, can the Prime Minister tell us what the differences between | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
his policy on energy and that of the energy companies? Not a word of | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
apology about predicting 1 million jobs lost. They got it wrong and | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
they can't bear to admit it. THE SPEAKER: Order. The question | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
must be heard and the answers must be heard, however long it takes. | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
Some people need to get used to the fact that that is what the public | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
would like to see from the House of Commons. Prime Minister. The energy | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
market needs more competition and lower levies and charges to drive | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
profits and prices down. At what we have learned, Mister Speaker in the | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
last week, is that this competition should include switching. At the | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
dispatch box, he said, I will tell the Prime Minister what is a con, | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
telling people that the answer is to switch suppliers. But what did we | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
find out over the last few days? He switched his supplier. Yes! He went | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
for one of these insurgent companies to cut his bills. Isn't it typical? | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
He comes here every week and attacks Tory policy. He goes home and he | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
adopts Tory policy to help his own family. Mister Speaker... | :33:51. | :34:01. | |
The only thing people need to do, if they want somebody to stand up | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
against the energy companies, they need to switch the Prime Minister, | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
and that is what they know. Now, as the unofficial spokesman for the | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
energy companies, maybe he can answer the question that they could | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
not answer yesterday. Can he explain why, when wholesale prices have | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
hardly moved since a year ago, retail prices are rising by around | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
10%? Because we need both competition and rolling back the | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
cost of charges. Switching is part of competition. And the company that | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
he switched to has this to say about his energy freeze: They said, "a | :34:47. | :34:56. | |
policy like this is potentially problematic for an independent | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
provider. Bluntly, it could put me under." So that is his policy, not | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
listening to the people providing his energy, but having less choice, | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
less competition and higher prices. It is the same old Labour. He had no | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
answer to the question. And I will its play on something quite simple | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
to him. Most energy companies do not want a price freeze. And most | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
consumers do. That is why the energy companies are against the price | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
freeze. He is so on the side of the energy companies that we should call | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
them the big seven, the Prime Minister and the big six energy | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
companies. Now, in opposition, he said this: "There is a problem in | :35:42. | :35:49. | |
the relationship between wholesale and retail prices. The first thing | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
you have got to do is give the regulator the teeth to order that | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
those reductions are made. That is what we would do." Mister Speaker, | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
why, when it comes to the energy companies, has he gone from Rambo to | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
Bambi in four short years? Who was it who gave us the big six? | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
Yes! When Labour first looked at this, there were almost 20 | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
companies, but because of his stewardship, we ended up with six | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
players. Now, they talk about a price freeze, but down the corridor, | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
they have been voting for a price rise. That is right, they voted for | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
a decarbonisation target that everyone accepts would rise prices. | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
If he wants a price freeze, why has he just voted for a price rise? It | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
is just so hard to keep up with this Prime Minister on green levies, | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
isn't it? This is what he was saying in January. Believe it or not, he | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
was boasting about the size of his green levies. He said this, I kid | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
you not, he said, and I quote, "eco-was many times the size of the | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
scheme it replaced, so when it comes to green, the bigger the better" and | :37:12. | :37:22. | |
now he says the opposite. On competition, here is the problem. | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
Here is the problem... He wants a review on energy policy, but that is | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
exactly what the energy companies want, a long enquiry, kicking the | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
problem into the long grass. How well a review that reports next | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
summer help people to pay their bills this winter? --how will. We | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
want to competition enquiry that starts right away, that is our | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
policy. The point about voting for a price rise, he has the answer, | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
because this is what the former Labour energy spokesman, Lord | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
Donoghue, said in the House of Lords, and he should listen... "I | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
have never spoken against a Labour amendment in 28 years in this House, | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
but I am troubled by the consequences for ordinary people. | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
The amendment will raise the cost of living and is in conflict with a | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
future price freeze. " That is from Labour's and policy spokesman of the | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
past in the House of Lords. The fact is the whole country can see he is a | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
one trick pony and he has run out of road. Let me tell him, if he wants | :38:33. | :38:42. | |
to talk about what people are saying... | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. Can we try to recover some semblance of calm? It | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
would be good for the health, beneficial to people's wellbeing. | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
They must try and grow up, even those below the age of 60. His own | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
former environment Secretary, the man in charge of the climate change | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
committee, says his figures are false. That is what he says. Instead | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
of having a review, he has got an opportunity to do something for the | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
public next week. He has got an energy bill going through | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
Parliament. Instead of sitting on his hands, he could amend that Bill | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
to institute a price freeze now. We will support a price freeze, why | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
does he not act? Because it is not a price freeze, it is a price con. And | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
the fact is, he is hiding behind this economically illiterate policy | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
because he cannot talk about the economy, because it is growing. He | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
cannot talk about unemployment, because it is falling. He cannot | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
talk about the deficit, because it has come down. He has nothing else | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
to say, he is a weak leader with no ideas. | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
I will tell you who is weak, it is this Prime Minister, too weak to | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
stand up to the energy companies. Nothing less than a price freeze | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
will do. Because this is the only way that we can deal with the energy | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
companies overcharging. It is time he started acting like a Prime | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
Minister, standing up for consumers and stopped acting like a PR man for | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
the energy companies. I will tell you what is weak and were too weak | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
to stand up and admit their economic failures. Too weak to stand up to | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
Len McCluskey, who tried to wreck the Scotland's petrochemical | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
industry, and too weak to stand up to the Shadow Chancellor... Order! | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
Mister Quinn, recover your composure, man. You are wholly out | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
of control. Prime Minister. Letters just examined what has happened with | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
high speed to this week. The Shadow Chancellor to ring the radio studios | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
telling everyone it won't go ahead -- high-speed two. What has he done, | :41:01. | :41:12. | |
cowered in his office, too weak to make a decision. Britain deserves | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
better than that flopped. -- ban that lot. | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
Last year, businesses, yes businesses, created three times as | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
many jobs in the private sector as well ask in the public sector. So is | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
it not high time, Prime Minister, that those who made the mistake | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
predictions that we would not be able to create as many Private jobs | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
that were lost in the public sector should go on to admit that they got | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
it wrong? My honourable friend is absolutely right. They should admit | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
that they got it wrong. Let us remember what the Leader of the | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
Opposition said as late as March 2012. He said, "you are not going to | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
be able to replace the jobs in the public sector quickly enough in the | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
private sector. We now have 1 million more people employed in our | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
country. 1.4 million private sector jobs, but they are too weak to admit | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
they got it wrong. I'm grateful, Mister Speaker. Does the Prime | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
Minister believed that the accident and emergency crisis in the NHS has | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
anything to do with the fact that he has cut 6,000 nurses since coming to | :42:33. | :42:42. | |
power? What we see in the NHS is 23,000 fewer nonclinical grades, | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
bureaucrats and managers, taken out of the NHS, and we see 4,000 more | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
clinical staff, including over 5,000 more doctors, in our NHS. That is | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
the change we have seen. Just imagine if we had listened to labour | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
and cut the NHS budget. We believe in the NHS and we have invested in | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
it. How does the chamber of commerce reported that the last economic | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
survey shows real business optimism, with the rise of the number of local | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
firms employing UK staff, a rise in UK orders an attempt cent increase | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
in staff. Theirs my right honourable friend agree that this is evidence | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
that the Government's economic plan is working and the party opposite | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
got it wrong. My honourable friend is right. We had to take tough | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
decisions, but growth is there. Unemployment is falling, we have | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
4,000 more businesses in this country and if we had listened to | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
the Shadow Chancellor, who said we were in for a lost decade of growth, | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
we would have higher debts, higher interest rates and it would be the | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
same old outcome under the same old Labour. In a recent survey, 75% of | :43:49. | :43:58. | |
people said they switch their heating of on one or more occasion | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
-- switched their heating off on one or more occasion last winter. Does | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
that rapidly to Prime Minister expect that to go up or down this | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
year -- does the Prime Minister. We have maintained the winter payments, | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
the cold weather payments and increase benefits the poorest | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
families get in this country. That is the action we have taken and we | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
can only afford to because we have taken tough and sensible decisions | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
on the economy. A few days ago, I launched the business case for the | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
electrification of the Harrogate and Knaresborough rail line, for more | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
trains, faster services and better rolling stock. After the last | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
Government electrified just nine miles in 13 years, can my right | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
honourable friend continue to prioritise rail electrification? He | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
makes a very good point, the last Government did just nine miles of | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
electrification in 13 years. Absolutely pathetic. We are putting | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
?1 billion into modernising railways in the North of England. And let's | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
just look again at this issue of HS2. It needs cross-party agreement | :45:10. | :45:11. | |
to make this important infrastructure scream go ahead, and | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
what a pathetic spectacle this week -- infrastructure scheme. One if | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
they are forward, then they are against it and the Leader of the | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
Opposition is too weak to make a decision. I have come across a very | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
interesting interview given to The Times by the Prime Minister, during | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
which he stopped off at his constituency office, to "turn the | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
heating on, so it is nicer when I get back this afternoon" . How many | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
of my constituents does he think will afford such niceties as we | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
approach this winter? His constituents will understand that | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
their price freeze is a price can't. Prices would go up beforehand, | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
prices would go up afterwards and has he himself has admitted, they | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
wouldn't keep their promise because they don't control gas prices. That | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
is why everybody knows it is a con. One of my constituents from | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
Carmarthen left school at 16 and was told that the only choice had was | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
which prison he might end up in. Four years later he is running a | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
chocolate company. Does the Prime Minister agree that the record | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
number of new business start-ups is as much down to people like him than | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
the excellent work of the Chancellor? I joined my my | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
honourable friend in paying tribute to his constituent and the way he is | :46:35. | :46:44. | |
turning his life around. Of course Labour do not want to hear about | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
success stories. They do not care. They do not care about enterprise | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
and small businesses. But it is this enterprise and small business that | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
is turning around our country. There is a new flat launched in my | :46:59. | :47:08. | |
constituency, built as a result of public money under the government's | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
affordable housing scheme. It is a two bedroom flat and it is ?720,000. | :47:13. | :47:21. | |
Does the Prime Minister believe this to be affordable and if so, to whom? | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
We need to build more houses in our country and that is why we are | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
reforming the planning system which they posed. That is why we have | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
introduced helped by, which they opposed. That is why we introduced | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
extra money into affordable housing. They oppose that. They are | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
the build absolutely nothing party and as a result, housing will become | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
less affordable. Over the last few decades, hundreds of millions of | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
people have been lifted out of poverty in India and China. As those | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
people have increased their living standards, the energy demands have | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
increased. Would my honourable friend agree that if we are to have | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
sustainable, long-term energy, the deal which the Prime Minister | :48:10. | :48:17. | |
heralded is a good idea? Think it is an important step forward to | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
encourage inward investment into our country to fund our nuclear | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
programme. That actually means we're going to have dependable low carbon | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
electricity in the future. And to the people who oppose foreign | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
investment, the party opposite, with all the flip-flops they have done | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
this week, I would not be surprised if they started to oppose nuclear | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
energy, too. Foreign investment means we can use our firepower to | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
build hospitals, schools, roads and where Rose. -- and railways. Does | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
the Prime Minister believe that Royal mail was undervalued? When you | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
consider that Royal mail, in the past, was losing billions of pounds, | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
the whole country is far better off with it in the private sector. I've | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
just talked about flip-flops and there is another one from the Labour | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
Party. Who was it that said we needed to privatise Royal mail? | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
Anyone, anyone? Where is Peter Mandelson when you need him? They | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
said we needed private capital and I'd agree. They said we needed | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
private management and I'd agree. And it has taken this government to | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
deliver the policy. With 450,000 new businesses, we have seen the biggest | :49:38. | :49:47. | |
monthly fall on employment -- in unemployment on record. Unemployment | :49:48. | :49:49. | |
is down by 30%. Would the Prime Minister agreed that by supporting | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
businesses to grow, we can and do labour's legacy of unemployment? My | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
honourable friend is right. Whoever is in government right now would | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
have to be making difficult reductions in the public sector. | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
That will obviously leads to the reduction of public sector jobs. We | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
need a strong private sector recovery and that is what we have | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
seen. 1.4 million more jobs in the private sector, meaning that overall | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
there are 1 million more people employed in our country. That is 1 | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
million reasons to stick to our plan and reject the medicine suggested by | :50:25. | :50:32. | |
the party opposite. Current legislation to protect agency | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
workers was designed to stop the export Asian migrant workers and | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
protect the wages and conditions our indigenous workers. I know the Prime | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
Minister has spoken on this issue but can he reassure the House that | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
he will resist any temptation to download even further protection for | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
agency workers? You already has! I want to see more jobs in this | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
country, and that means making sure we keep our flexible workforce. Of | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
course, what the honourable gentleman did not tell us is that he | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
chairs the Unite group of Labour MPs. Perhaps he ought to declare | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
that when he steps up. And while he is at it, perhaps you can have a | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
word with Len McCluskey and say that we need to have a proper enquiry | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
into what happened in Unite, with what happened in Grangemouth. | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
Because we know the leader of the Labour Party is too weak to do it | :51:25. | :51:32. | |
himself. The economy is growing by 1.5% in the last six months. During | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
that time, in my constituency the number of job-seekers has fallen by | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
a fifth. Raising living standards requires rater productivity from a | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
skilled workforce. But in Chippenham, hopes were -- five years | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
ago when the national college building programme ran out of money. | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
We'll be Prime Minister join me in backing Wiltshire College's bid to | :51:53. | :52:01. | |
rebuild our campus, for local students to gain the skills that the | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
employers demand? I agree with what my honourable friend said. We | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
remember the disappointment when labour's planned investment | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
collapsed in so many colleges. It is this government that is now putting | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
in the money to see that expansion and improvement happens. And I'm | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
sure that can happen in Wiltshire as well as Whitby. Since two thirds of | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
the green levies on energy bills were established under this | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
government, why is the Prime Minister attacking himself? Many of | :52:34. | :52:42. | |
the green levies were put in place by the party opposite. Let me remind | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
him that one of the first acts of this government was to take the ?179 | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
renewable heat initiative, which the leader of the Labour Party wanted to | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
put on every single persons bill in the country, we took that off the | :52:57. | :53:08. | |
bill. We'll be Prime Minister join me in congratulating the workforce | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
at Toyota in my constituency, as well as manufacturers across the | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
country, whose hard work has ensured that car production went up by 10% | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
in the last year? I certainly join my honourable friend and I remember | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
my own visit to Derby. They do not want to hear good news about | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
manufacturing! They do not want to hear good news about the car | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
industry! This country is now a net exporter of cars and we should be | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
congratulating the workforce at Toyota. We should be congratulating | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
the workforce at Land Rover and praising what they are doing at | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
Nissan. These companies are leading the real industrialisation of our | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
country. I was at the works on Monday were the many is leading to | :53:54. | :54:04. | |
more jobs and British at -- the Mini is leading to more jobs and | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
productivity. Launching a report on electoral conduct yesterday, there | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
was shocking examples of racism and discrimination during election | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
campaigns. We'll be Prime Minister back our call to get political | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
parties, the Electoral Commission and the equality and human rights | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
commission to work more proactively now in areas of tension so that the | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
next election can be a battle of ideas and not race hate. I welcome | :54:33. | :54:42. | |
the report of the enquiry into electoral conduct. I will study the | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
report closely. If there is anything we can do on a cross-party basis to | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
keep this racism out of politics, then we should do so. Fax to the | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
regional growth fund, ?8.8 million is being spent reopening the real | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
link, cutting travel times between Burnley and Manchester in half. But | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
better real regulations are also vital for the South of England. Does | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
the Prime Minister agree with me that it is outrageous for the party | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
opposite to be challenging HS2 at the current time, putting jobs in | :55:17. | :55:26. | |
jeopardy? My honourable friend is right to stand up for his | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
constituents and the North of England. Cos there is a real danger | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
with Labour that they are letting down the North of England, letting | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
down the Midlands. Let me remind the Shadow Chancellor of what he said | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
about these transport investments. He said this. Nowhere is consensus | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
more essential than on our national infrastructure. He said this, " | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
Successive governments have docked or delayed vital decisions on | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
infrastructure, allowing short-term politics to get in the way". That is | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
what he said his own words. He is found guilty of short termism and | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
petty politicking. Rather than looking at the national interests. I | :56:03. | :56:16. | |
sensed that the Prime Minister... The Prime Minister is prepared to | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
gamble, along with the Justice Minister, on the proposals for the | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
probation service, especially in light of the tests and trials being | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
called to a halt. Is he prepared to gamble, especially with the lives | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
and safety of my constituents, and other people in this country? And | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
will his gambling wok holdout? What we want is a service that is much | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
more is focused on stopping reoffending and getting results. And | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
also making sure that we give people rehabilitation from the moment they | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
leave prison. That does not happen today but it is interesting. Body | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
six minutes past 12 and not one question from Labour on the economy. | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
The have got nothing to say. They have nothing to offer and they are | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
embarrassed that prediction after prediction was completely wrong. | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
Like my right honourable friend, I agree... Order! A question from the | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
honourable member must, and it will, be heard. Like my honourable friend, | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
I welcome the fall in unemployment. Indeed, down to 3.7% in my | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
constituency. But will he recognise with me that one of the biggest | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
problems is young people with special needs, particularly autism, | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
getting into work. And will he congratulate the London Borough of | :57:46. | :57:47. | |
Redbridge and the interface parents group, where eight project has | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
started with the first young people with special needs in work? I | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
certainly pay tribute to Redbridge and to all those who help children | :58:02. | :58:11. | |
with special needs. We are trying to focus on those who need the help | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
most. Have a question on the economy for the Prime Minister. -- I have. | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
How about this? Does the Prime Minister agree with his own advisers | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
that the government's youth contract is bailing to tackle the appallingly | :58:28. | :58:36. | |
high levels of youth unemployment? -- failing to tackle. What we have | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
seen with the youth contract is thousands of young people to work | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
through our work experience scheme. It has been more successful in the | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
future jobs fund but has cost six times as little through the youth | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
contract. We have also seen 20,000 young people get work opportunities. | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
That is why the youth claimant count is coming down so rapidly. There is | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
far more to do to get young people into work at the fact that we have | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
backed over 1.5 million apprenticeships is a sign of how | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
much we care about getting young people back to work. Does the Prime | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
Minister agree with President Obama that there needs to be additional | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
constraints on how we use intelligence, that we need to more | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
effectively weigh the risks and rewards of our activities? Will he | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
follow the Prime Minister -- President's leads? I have said this | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
in the House before and I'll repeat it again. We will always listen to | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
what other countries have to say but I believe that in Britain we have a | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
good way of having intelligence and security services overseen by a | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
Parliamentary committee, having their work examined by intelligence | :59:43. | :59:45. | |
commissioners and ensuring that the act under a proper legal basis. I'd | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
take those responsibilities very seriously believe we have a good | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
system in this country and we can be proud of the people that work in it | :59:54. | :00:02. | |
and oversee it. We have recently learned that energy security in this | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
country has been outsourced to the Chinese and French, that pensions | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
will be frozen this year and we have no control over the big six. Does | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
the Prime Minister had any regrets about the cack-handed privatisation | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
of the utilities by the former Tory government and the decimation of our | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
call industry? He backed a firm that never built a | :00:22. | :00:48. | |
single power station. I think we should welcome foreign investment to | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
build these important utilities so we can use our power to run | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
hospitals and the things we need. There are in my constituency soon to | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
be 100 wind turbines. These turbines are paid for by my constituents, but | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
they are not constricted or creating jobs in my constituency. Tension he | :01:12. | :01:20. | |
ensure that the changes in green subsidy that I can he ensure that | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
the changes in green subsidy are here in the United Kingdom. We will | :01:26. | :01:40. | |
aim to retard that investment. Will the Prime Minister join me in paying | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
tribute to the positive role played by trade unions in the work of the | :01:44. | :01:52. | |
automotive Council which has brought about a change in the UK car | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
industry. I think it has been very successful and where trade unions | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
play a positive role, I will be the first prize. But where, frankly, we | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
have a real problem with a rogue trade unionist at Grangemouth who | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
nearly brought the Scottish petrochemical industry to its knees, | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
we need to have a proper enquiry. A Labour enquirer. If they had any | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
courage, any vision, any decision-making they would need to | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
recognise they have to have an enquiry to get to the bottom of what | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
happened. Well, and prime ministers questions, | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
they were still shouting at the end the Prime Minister firing on all | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
cylinders -- at PMQs. The usual confrontation across the dispatch | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
box was dominated by energy prices, which will probably not go away as | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
the winter weather comes in and other energy prices announced what | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
their prices are. You can tell the level of debate that was reached | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
when the primaries the called Ed Miliband a one trick pony who has | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
run out of road -- when the Prime Minister called Ed Miliband. I am | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
not sure ponies use the road. He described the Prime Minister is a PR | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
man for the energy companies. Mister Cameron was once a PR man, but not | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
for the energy companies, it was another monopoly he was a PR man | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
for, called ITV at the time. That is a cheeky aside. | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Let a return to energy. The emails are about that issue, although some | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
people are getting fed up with the subject being dominated by energy. | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
Ian Franken says that if all the Prime Minister has got personal | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
attacks on Ed Miliband, he has lost the argument. This one says that | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
Cameron is hard to listen to and he has no answer to the energy | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
companies and is part of the problem. | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
Colin in Rugby says that Ed Miliband sees to change the record and his | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
continued questions and sound bites about energy prices show a distinct | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
lack of awareness about everything else on the political agenda. Ray | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
Jones from Ashford says that Labour is clearly a one trick pony. All | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
predictions of doom and gloom have failed so their only card to play is | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
energy, and they have even got that wrong, as they have no answer as to | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
what happens in a rising market. Now, the interesting thing, James, | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
was that all of the discussion was about the energy price freeze, | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
proposed by Ed Miliband. We know, putting aside the economic summit it | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
is a politically popular move. -- putting aside the economics of it. | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
There was no viable alternative from the Prime Minister, even though a | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
week ago he said he would float the idea of reducing the green levies | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
and cut bills. So although the Prime Minister did better than last week, | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
the argument was still on Ed Miliband's territory. I think we saw | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
an attempt to move that argument away by the Prime Minister. Ed | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
Miliband back on the same subject but repeatedly, the Prime Minister | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
tried to draw the gym and back to the economy. The Conservatives were | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
better organised than last week -- draw the argument back. They were | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
trying to drag the subject back, to say that Labour, by focusing solely | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
on energy prices, want to talk about it as an exclusion of everything | :05:22. | :05:32. | |
else. But you are right, they will not be able to draw it away from | :05:33. | :05:42. | |
that until they have cancers. The Autumn statement is not another four | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
weeks -- until they have the answers. The Autumn statement is | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
another four weeks, and looking at the green levies and the social | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
policy, but also the actual transportation, the network costs, | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
which is a large part of that, they are talking about looking at that to | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
see if they can do anything to reduce costs. These are the | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
distribution and transmission costs, they are regulated by off game, | :06:06. | :06:14. | |
because it is the National Grid -- Ofgem, whereas they have no power to | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
regulate retail prices, unlike some regulators in France. Ofgem does | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
regulate these prices and there is a bigger chunk of the bill, because | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
they are having to rebuild a transition system to bring in all of | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
the offshore and onshore wind farms, and solar power, which have gone to | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
areas, unlike the new nuclear stations, which are where the grid | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
already exists. I think they are looking across the piece, they know | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
they have to come up with something, but equally, they have to come up | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
with something that is simple and there has to be a figure at the end | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
of the day. However they cook it, there has to be a number at the end | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
that it can be reduced by. The difficulty the Labour is having set | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
the political weather, since the Labour conference and Ed Miliband's | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
speech, is it now gets overtaken by events. The Government has had the | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
time to look at ways not just freezing the bills but actually | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
cutting the bills. The problem for the Government is they seem to make | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
it up as they go along. We feel a very simple policy, which is to | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
freeze energy prices, woodwork, but this week the Prime Minister is | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
talking about green levies and the distribution network. The reality | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
for people, and I don't think they will get bored with this, because as | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
soon as they bills land on their match at home, they look at it | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
gassed, -- soon as their bills land on their match at home, they look at | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
it gassed. As winter approaches, soon as we get a cold weather snap, | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
nobody once... A lot of people will die, that is a reality. That is what | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
we are saying. We want the Government to act now, that is what | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
we are saying. The Government can act now, you are in Government, you | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
are the party in power. Do something about it. Is an energy person in the | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
past, the promise of a freeze is a straightforward political life. -- | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
is an energy person. Because of global prices rising, you cannot | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
deliver that freeze without very expensive subsidies and he's | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
refusing to commit to that. The real issue is whether, in the face of | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
expensive global energy, we have a market which is a fare structure, | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
delivering a competitive environment where people can choose and where | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
companies can give the most efficient prices. There, I think, is | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
a perfectly fair argument, saying let's get an independent group like | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Ofgem to say here is how it works, here are the facts. Are they saying | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
there is a cartel in this report? No. What we are seeing is that in | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
the course of the last two years, seven new companies have come into | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
the utility supply. We want more companies so it is not dominated by | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
the big six. This is an issue the both of you and the whole political | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
class in Westminster, and it is this, at the moment green levies and | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
those associated with green levies are adding around 10% to add bills, | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
around ?112, you both voted for. You can reject those... Let me finish my | :09:24. | :09:32. | |
point. You have also put into the pipeline, both you and the climate | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
change act and you win the coalition came to power, increases in these | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
levies including the carbon floor tax, which will increase these | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
levies so that they become 30% of our bill by 2020, and well at 40% to | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
the price of electricity -- will add 40%. So it is a strange thing when | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
you are lecturing the energy companies to do something about | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
prices went between you, you have consciously added to the nation's | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
energy bills. That is partly true. As you say, both parties, us, when | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
in Government, and the coalition Government, have introduced green | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
levies, which we have all supported and why? Because there are social | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
policy objectives alongside it. See God but you are adding 40% to the | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
bills. -- you are adding 40% of the bills. In the long run, it will | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
reduce bills and it has contributions towards some of the | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
fuel poor. Are we going to abandon that? People wouldn't be fuel poor | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
if they didn't have to pay these extra levies. And the argument that | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
both parties use, that fewer bills are actually going to be less in | :10:48. | :10:56. | |
2020, involves that a Government department has heroic consumptions. | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
Per unit of retail electricity, the price rises by 40%. Things in the | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
pipeline, the two parties have agreed to. You have a fair point in | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
some aspects, which is, perhaps over the last 15 years, we have put more | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
and more obligations onto the utility companies, be it for | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
addressing a fuel of a teak, rue flagging, -- fuel poverty, roof | :11:20. | :11:29. | |
lagging, and now we say, we hate you, you are expensive. So we have | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
forced on them one economic model and blamed them for the | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
consequences. David Cameron is saying we are going to look at that | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
again, in terms of green levies and is it right that by putting the | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
burden on them, it is the consumer who pays? One of the things the | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
Government did do was abolish the warm front scheme, a subsidy for the | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
fuel poor paid out of taxation. It was transferred to the bill payer. A | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
final thought, James? The Government had to come up with something fairly | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
soon. We know they are working hard. The question is whether or not they | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
ultimately produce enough to match Labour's policy in a retail, simple, | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
straightforward on the door sends, around all of the incredibly | :12:21. | :12:29. | |
complicated organs. And there will be a Daily Politics special on | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
December the 4th about the Autumn statement. Something to look forward | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
to. Now, yesterday, we spoke to prominent British Muslim Mo Ansar. | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
His meeting with the former leader of the English Defence League leader | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Tommy Robinson was the subject of the BBC documentary. They have | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
campaigned against what they see as the Islamic occasion of Britain. | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
Tommy Robinson is explaining his view of the Koran. You can take | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
sexual slaves. You can take outside of marriage... Tell me that path. I | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
don't think you can find it. It is nice to see you reading it, but it | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
is not making a difference, because you distorted. Marry those that | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
please you of other women, two, three or four. If you fear that that | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
not be just, take what your right arm possesses, like slaves. Where | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
does it say sexual slaves? Where does it say it? Don't distorted? | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
Yesterday, when I spoke to Mo Ansar, he had this to say. I did | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
have an impression of Tommy. I had painted him as some kind of figure | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
like Goebbels, the 21st century. And he wasn't like that? Spending time | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
with someone always humanises them and there is a soft side to Tommy, | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
although his rhetoric has been disturbing and the impact he has had | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
on Muslim communities across the country has been disturbing. Like | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
many people, Tommy is a complex character. Mo Ansar talking about a | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
Tommy Robinson, who is in the studio now. He described you as a complex | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
character. How would you describe him, having spent time with him? I | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
liked him, personality wise. What I found was that he was in denial. | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
Even at the end of watching his interview yesterday, when they | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
brought a grooming, he was trying to push the problem away and when | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
Muslim leaders are given platforms, he spends 95% of his time talking | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
about Islam phobia and all of these different things from people who | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
criticise the ideology. If he spent that time tackling the problems | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
within the community, we might be getting somewhere. But Mo was to be | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
seen as a defender of Muslims and Islam, rather than accepting that we | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
have these problems. He has this image of me, that is the image that | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
everybody has been given of all these ordinary people. Why did you | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
leave the English Defence League? I felt it was the way forward. For | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
years, I had been making a noise and trying to get issues that | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
working-class people were feeling in their communities and then I did not | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
want to... I wanted to be part of the solution. You think the EDL is | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
not working. Are you ashamed that you were part of it? I am not, I am | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
a proud that I started it and it has given people a platform but we need | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
to solve the problems, rather than just making noise about it. Moving | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
forward is working with reformists and true moderates within the | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
Islamic community who are willing to accept the problems. Have you | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
actually changed your views? The documentary was all about you going | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
on a journey of supposedly enlightenment that culminates in | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
your decision to quit the EDL Mobutu tweeted just before the programme | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
that your views haven't changed. I was 20 61 started this movement. I'm | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
on a journey at the present. -- when I started. A lot of my views have | :16:04. | :16:11. | |
been distorted. What is your goal now? Initially, you wanted Muslims | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
out of Britain. You have accepted that that cannot happen. That has | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
never been my goal. Never. My goal now, there is a massive gap. | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
Working-class communities have been pushed to the side and people do not | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
feel part of the fabric of the society. That is not the fault of | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
the Muslim community? There is a reason why working-class children | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
are now the biggest underachievers in this country. There is a reason. | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
People do not feel they have the opportunities. A lot of the | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
opportunity for people to turn to the far right is coming from | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
resentment that they are seeing. My goal is to give a healthy platform | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
for debate, rather than being on the streets, to bring these issues to | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
the forefront. They need to be debated and people need to see that | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
they are getting somewhere with them. Do you still regard Islam as a | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
religion of violence and fascism? I think it is untrue that it is a | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
religion of peace. It is not factual. You believe it has a | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
belligerent of violence? It is down to the interpretations of that | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
Scripture. When I met Osama Hassan from Quilliam, he was a very | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
religious man. He is not calling for violence but we cannot say that | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
people who wish to interpret it for violence can do that. I do not | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
understand what you're trying to achieve. You to stop the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
Islamification of Britain, as you see it? I saw a poll that said that | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
up to 40% of people believe that this will end in an inevitable | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
violent conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims. That is terrifying. | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
People will start preparing for that. I do not want the communities | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
we live in to be the communities affected by this conflict. But you | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
believe that it is a religion of violence? Do you want to ban the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
building of mosques? We must regulate mosques. We should not have | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
Iran and Saudi Arabia and Qatar dictating which form of Islam, | :18:12. | :18:21. | |
extremist sects, to move forward. We need a platform. Mo Ansar is the | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
wrong person to be pushing forward because he does not accept the | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
fault. You have to ask a question about an Islamic state, governed by | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
sharia law, do you believe that you should chop off hands? When he was | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
pushed, he could not get out of it. In that clip, you are distorting the | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
fact to fit your narrative. You distorted the facts on a part of the | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
Koran, on keeping women as sexual slaves, and that is how you have | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
interpreted it to link it to the cases of Pakistani men grooming | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
white girls. Do you stand by that? In the Koran, it says 14 times that | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
they can take non-Muslim women as slaves. We have to explore the | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
reasons for why 90% of these grills are men and Muslim men called | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
Mohammed. Maybe the men that are justifying their crimes, in large | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
groups of brothers and cousins and friends from work, that is not | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
normal paedophilia. That is a problem. We have to look into this | :19:28. | :19:35. | |
root cause. Do you speak to anyone in the English Defence League? I | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
have buried my head in the sand because this is a community. It is | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
where I'll live and it is the people I see on a daily basis. I have upset | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
a lot of people but and people who understand the causes, the cause is | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
not to have conflict. Do you still speak to people from the EDL? I have | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
not for two weeks but will I, yet? --. I think the only way to solve | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
the problem is to show people from the English Defence League that this | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
is the way. I believe that they should work and listen and reform | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
and meet my breasts. Do you want to see -- mate more -- meet my breasts. | :20:12. | :20:32. | |
Are you aware that you are more likely to die in hospital at the | :20:33. | :20:34. | |
weekend than during the week? The government wants to change this and | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
provide full-time care seven days a week. It would have thought that, | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
and NHS with seven day a week care? But can we afford it and can the NHS | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
treat people all the time? Thomas Hughes Hallett, the chair of the | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
Institute of Global Health Innovation, thinks that some | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
services need to be provided by charities. This is his soapbox. | :21:00. | :21:14. | |
Most of us look after our cars. We have a contract with society to keep | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
them healthy, while they are on the road. And so we get MOT is and | :21:18. | :21:27. | |
servicing. -- MOTs. If only we treated our bodies so well, we could | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
keep them off the scrapheap or avoid unnecessary trips to A We need to | :21:32. | :21:39. | |
take more responsibility for our health and the health of our | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
families, to keep the health service ticking over for everyone. As a | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
society, we have to understand that if we expect the NHS to cope under | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
the ever increasing wave of demand, it will soon break down. To stop | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
this happening, we need to make some tough choices now about what we | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
really need for free from the health service. And the rest, well, we | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
should accept that we need to pay for it, like extras on a car. And we | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
need to provide more for each other in our own communities. For example, | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
the voluntary sector provides services like bereavement | :22:18. | :22:28. | |
counselling or play therapy we need to see more examples of this instead | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
of murdering -- burdening the service. In my study, what stood out | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
is that people want to take back control of their own care. What they | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
need is Saturn have or trip advisors to point them to what is | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
most successful. Chemists, the community support centres, to steer | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
them away from the NHS when they do not need it and sometimes do not | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
want it. That way we can keep the health service on the road for | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
ourselves and future generations. And Thomas Hughes Hallett joins us | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
now. Welcome to the show. You mentioned bereavement counselling | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
and play therapy come examples of services that the voluntary sector | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
could bring in. Where would you draw the line? The evidence that I'd took | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
in Essex demonstrated that the people of Essex recognised fully | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
that what they want from the state is support and emergency care. And | :23:26. | :23:34. | |
they are realists. They know that in 2030, instead of 35,000 people being | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
dependent on social care, 135,000 people are going to be dependent, | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
and the state cannot possibly afford to provide that. For the sake of | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
this argument, let's accent that that is true. Where would you draw | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
the line? -- lets accept. Should gastric band surgery be on the NHS? | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
Yes, if there is a clinical needs. Acupuncture? Acupuncture, I am a big | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
fan of acupuncture and my wife uses it a lot for her back. But the | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
reality is that there are lots of people out there who would be | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
prepared to offer voluntarily, care that is not necessarily clinical in | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
vitro visual sense. As Chief Executive of Mary Creagh, I had | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
100,000 volunteers who supported us every year, from physiotherapists to | :24:25. | :24:36. | |
surgeons. Berwick in Spain is? If there is a physical reason, yes. -- | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
Marie Curie. -- varicose veins. Fertility treatment? This is what | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
makes your thesis or difficult because where do you draw the line? | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
People might accept in theory, the argument. That the NHS should get | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
back to basics. But if we go down that road, the question I am asking | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
is the question that will need to be answered. They will. And difficult | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
questions are going to have to be answered. But what I have to be | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
answered. But what I've learned from talking to hundreds and hundreds of | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
people over the last 12 months is that the public is up for it. It is | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
the politicians who are shying away. Alan, where are you on this? It is | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
free of the point of need and that will not change. But demand exceeds | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
supply other has to be a process for determining what is needed. At the | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
moment, everything is done on the NHS? Not absolutely everything. As | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
Tom says... But you expect it. Lots of people are going to Osteopaths | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
and paying themselves. But for the mainstream medical needs of any | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
person, the health service... But he is not arguing about that. You were | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
saying for four -- you are saying that for that to continue, some of | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
this other stuff will be have to moved off balance sheet. I was asked | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
by the government to do a review of the services that the government | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
should provide for end of life care and published that report years | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
ago, which made it absolutely clear what the government would provide, | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
what the voluntary sector would have to step forwards to provide, and | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
what people would have to provide for themselves. That was accepted. I | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
have to say, this is the thin end of the wedge. They will have real | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
problems if you are going to start charging because certain things will | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
be charged and the fundamental principle of the NHS is that it is | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
free at the point of use. If you start charging, you will have a | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
2-tier NHS and the purist will be excluded from some treatments will | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
stop that is not what I was saying. But that is the consequence of what | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
you are proposing. No one is mentioning charging. That is the | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
consequence. I've spent several days in Canvey Island, working with | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
people who are coming together to provide community support networks | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
to support the professionals to deliver better care to the ageing | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
population. But would that be enough people out there to do that? | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
Absolutely. People want the state to be honest with them. They want state | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
to tell them precisely what they will offer free at the point of | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
delivery. So some of these things will be charged for? They could be | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
and people, many of them are happy to pay. High Court, if I could gets | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
to see a doctor at 6pm at night, when I cannot currently, I might be | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
paired to pay for it. What is happening is that 40% of the people | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
by interview in Essex now no longer go to the state as their first point | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
of contact for health care. 25% of pharmacists, 15% Google. The | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
chemists provided for free, for free! The Tories support this? Will | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
leave this question hanging. I have already entered it. Here is a big | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
political question. Is it? Wait for it. Who is the net one and who is | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
the plural one? Our reward for the best guest of the day goes to that | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
woolly wonder, Alan Duncan. Here is taking up the Daily Politics crush a | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
challenge. We were filming you during PMQs. You are looking at him | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
in action. The speed of the man. His fingers a pillar. And what was the | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
finished product? -- blur. It took me half an hour, and it is a bit | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
scrappy but I have done rather well. More Tory deception! The honest | :28:31. | :28:40. | |
truth... We need to give you the answer to GUESSED THE YEAR. Alan, | :28:41. | :28:52. | |
press it. Mike, in Romford. It is a good time for Essex. That said. The | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
one o'clock News is starting on BBC One. I will be on my own tomorrow | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
doing the Daily Politics. Yeah, me. She is going to crochet. Bye-bye. | :29:05. | :29:12. |