12/11/2013 Daily Politics


12/11/2013

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government's changes to housing benefit. We will hear from Shadow

:00:45.:00:50.

welfare Secretary Rachel Reeves. After Carol Vorderman, Mary Porta

:00:51.:00:53.

San Kirstie Allsopp, who is the latest celebrity to be hired by a

:00:54.:00:57.

party leader to head up a task force?

:00:58.:01:01.

Are we drowning in too much data? We will discuss whether the

:01:02.:01:04.

proliferation of smartphones and tablets is leading us to information

:01:05.:01:05.

overload. And Yes, Statsminister! If you are a

:01:06.:01:20.

fan of scandi-drama Borgen, you are in for a treat. The show's

:01:21.:01:24.

screenwriter joins us to preview the return of the hit political series.

:01:25.:01:34.

And with us for the whole programme and hit series is the author and

:01:35.:01:54.

And with us for the whole programme Kirstie Allsopp on housing policy,

:01:55.:01:56.

Ed Miliband has decided he will not be out done. The Labour leader

:01:57.:02:01.

announced this morning that none other than former Tomorrow's World

:02:02.:02:04.

presenter Maggie Philbin will be heading up a task force on digital

:02:05.:02:08.

skills. Do we need somebody to do this? Absolutely. Think what the

:02:09.:02:15.

world is like today. Ten years ago, there was no Facebook, no iTunes. We

:02:16.:02:20.

are living in this age of technological advance at a speed we

:02:21.:02:24.

can't imagine. Just this week on Twitter floated for 18 billion. We

:02:25.:02:30.

desperately need to have these skills in this country. The geeks

:02:31.:02:39.

will inherit the world. Our kids are definitely not skilled in the right

:02:40.:02:43.

way. White map you think there is a gap? A huge gap.

:02:44.:03:04.

way. White map you think there is a some extent. And there are Yids'

:03:05.:03:08.

clubs that look at IT and technology, but in some ways, they

:03:09.:03:12.

are not sophisticated enough. Should coding be part of the curriculum?

:03:13.:03:18.

Yes. Moving ahead, the government needs to be thinking about how to

:03:19.:03:25.

give our kids the best chance in the future. These technology skills are

:03:26.:03:30.

essential. But we must not forget some of the older skills in the

:03:31.:03:33.

process, because we are also facing this ticking time bomb which is the

:03:34.:03:37.

ageing population. What skills will we need to look after them? Some of

:03:38.:03:42.

the caring skills should also be nurtured. But do you think that will

:03:43.:03:47.

diminish as we used digital technology more? We will lose those

:03:48.:03:55.

caring skills? It is important that we don't, because although machines

:03:56.:03:56.

will we don't, because although machines

:03:57.:04:16.

carers to be there. At my son's secondary school, they have been

:04:17.:04:22.

given mini iPads. Is that a good idea? As long as the kids are using

:04:23.:04:34.

them to actually do useful things! Yes, children should be learning how

:04:35.:04:40.

to use new technology. This morning, another of the big six

:04:41.:04:44.

energy companies announced its winter price rises. EDF Energy says

:04:45.:04:48.

its average gas and electricity price will go up by 3.9%, lower than

:04:49.:04:54.

the other power companies. It comes as the Energy Secretary Ed Davey

:04:55.:04:59.

warns the energy companies not to treat customers ask cash cows. Let's

:05:00.:05:02.

talk to our chief political correspondent, who is outside the

:05:03.:05:06.

energy industry's annual conference in London. They

:05:07.:05:23.

energy industry's annual conference hard, not just with the government,

:05:24.:05:26.

but also with the other energy companies. They are saying, we can

:05:27.:05:33.

keep our price rise down to 3.9%, but if you, the government, don't

:05:34.:05:37.

strip out some of those nasty green bits and pieces in energy bills, we

:05:38.:05:43.

may put up our prices. So we'll hardball on the chancellor to ensure

:05:44.:05:47.

that in the Autumn statement, he strips out some of those obligations

:05:48.:05:51.

such as the energy business obligation, which they regard as

:05:52.:05:55.

crucial in lowering bills. But they are also playing hardball with the

:05:56.:06:00.

other companies, because EDF are saying wholesale prices have hardly

:06:01.:06:02.

gone up at all, when the other energy companies are blaming the big

:06:03.:06:06.

price hikes they have introduced on the rise in wholesale prices. EDF

:06:07.:06:12.

are saying they only account for 0.1% of their price rise. So in

:06:13.:06:16.

are saying they only account for rises? I expect that is what will be

:06:17.:06:39.

the demand now. Just in competitive terms, it seems to place the other

:06:40.:06:44.

companies in a difficult position if they are having to say to customers,

:06:45.:06:47.

here is a 10% rise, and another energy company is only putting them

:06:48.:06:52.

up by 3.9%. The real key is what happens in the autumn statement. Can

:06:53.:06:58.

the chancellor strip out some of these green obligations? If he

:06:59.:07:03.

can't, then EDF are in effect trying to put the blame on the government,

:07:04.:07:07.

saying, this is what we could do if we did not have these nasty bits and

:07:08.:07:12.

pieces piled on us by the government. We could keep prices

:07:13.:07:15.

low. But if you don't deliver, we have to put prices up. They are

:07:16.:07:19.

trying to turn the tables in this debate were so far, all the heat has

:07:20.:07:22.

been on the energy companies. debate were so far, all the heat has

:07:23.:07:44.

David Dimbleby? At the end of the show, Noreena has the honour of

:07:45.:07:49.

giving us the correct answer. Now, what is the difference between

:07:50.:07:52.

a bedroom tax and a spare room subsidy? It depends which side of

:07:53.:07:56.

the green benches you are sitting on. Today, Labour, who argued that

:07:57.:08:01.

it is a welfare tax, have tabled an opposition Day debate on the

:08:02.:08:06.

subject. Neither side refers to it by its real name of the

:08:07.:08:09.

under-occupancy penalty, but what is it and what are the arguments around

:08:10.:08:15.

it? In his first budget in 2010, George Osborne announced a number of

:08:16.:08:19.

welfare reforms. One of them was to reduce housing benefit by 14% for

:08:20.:08:25.

those with one spare bedroom and a 25% reduction for those with two or

:08:26.:08:30.

more spare bedroom is. The idea behind this was to encourage some

:08:31.:08:32.

people whose children have left home to downsize and free

:08:33.:08:53.

the scheme by the University of York found that the savings were likely

:08:54.:08:58.

to be as much as ?160 million less than the government projected for

:08:59.:09:02.

the first year. The study found that the Department for Work and Pensions

:09:03.:09:06.

calculation is assumed that none of the 660,000 households would want to

:09:07.:09:11.

move. In fact, over a fifth want to downsize, with many looking to move

:09:12.:09:15.

into the private rented sector, which can end up costing the

:09:16.:09:18.

taxpayer more. The government say their policy will have the effect of

:09:19.:09:22.

encouraging people to make up their shortfall in rent by moving into

:09:23.:09:26.

work, but Labour say there are not the smaller properties for people to

:09:27.:09:32.

move into. Labour have already pledged to scrap it if they get

:09:33.:09:36.

elected. Even some Liberal Democrats are rocking the coalition boat over

:09:37.:09:41.

this, with four of their MPs describing it as unfair and a

:09:42.:09:45.

mistake. They argue that no one should be subject

:09:46.:10:02.

mistake. They argue that no one it is a tax on people who, through

:10:03.:10:05.

no fault of their own in many cases, live in a bigger house than they

:10:06.:10:08.

need. You take the housing benefit away without offering them any

:10:09.:10:14.

alternative suitable accommodation. That is unfair. It is actually a

:10:15.:10:18.

reduction in benefits, which is supported by 54% of people in a

:10:19.:10:23.

recent opinion poll. It may be supported, but if there is nowhere

:10:24.:10:31.

for people to go, is that fair? Is it fair that we have 375,000 people

:10:32.:10:36.

in overcrowded accommodation that Labour have nothing to say about?

:10:37.:10:40.

There are many options for people to take. They can do more work, they

:10:41.:10:47.

can swap with other people in social rented accommodation, which is a

:10:48.:10:53.

growing area. They can take in a lodger, or there is a

:10:54.:11:12.

people affected are disabled, so it is disingenuous to say they can go

:11:13.:11:18.

to work. Many have chronic long-term conditions. And many do not have a

:11:19.:11:22.

spare bedroom. They have a room where a carer comes to stay

:11:23.:11:26.

sometimes at the weekends. Some of them have grandparents or children

:11:27.:11:32.

coming to stay. Many of those affect it have had specific adaptations

:11:33.:11:36.

done to their home to make it possible for them to live there. It

:11:37.:11:41.

would cost millions more to have those adaptations done on a new

:11:42.:11:45.

property. So this policy is unfair and unworkable, because there just

:11:46.:11:49.

aren't those properties. Councils in Liverpool are looking to demolish

:11:50.:11:53.

larger properties because people cannot afford to live in them.

:11:54.:11:59.

Charlie, do you think this policy now may have looked great on paper,

:12:00.:12:05.

and why should people live in a house that is too big

:12:06.:12:23.

and why should people live in a hours and families who are

:12:24.:12:28.

overcrowded. -- 400,000 families. Is it right that we should have

:12:29.:12:31.

children growing up doing homework in the hallway, and say it is OK for

:12:32.:12:36.

others to have spare rooms? They are not spare rooms. Rachel Reeves,

:12:37.:12:49.

these are rooms that are not always being used and people can be sitting

:12:50.:12:53.

properties that are way too big for them. Charlie knows that two thirds

:12:54.:12:57.

of people affected by this are disabled. It is not feasible for

:12:58.:13:04.

many of them to move. But you don't disagree with the principle of, if

:13:05.:13:09.

there were properties available, of moving into a smaller property? Many

:13:10.:13:13.

would like to move to a smaller property to pay a lower gas and

:13:14.:13:15.

electricity property to pay a lower gas and

:13:16.:13:33.

policy is premised on nobody moving home. That is the only way to earn

:13:34.:13:40.

money. At what is happening is that people are turning to food banks and

:13:41.:13:44.

payday lenders because they can't afford the bedroom tax. Has that

:13:45.:13:51.

been a problem? It will not make the savings that the Department

:13:52.:13:55.

calculator because of the scenario outlined by Rachel Reeves. People

:13:56.:13:59.

would like to move they could, but they can't come up with the money?

:14:00.:14:05.

It is not about saving money. That was part of the welfare programme,

:14:06.:14:09.

to say, we are going to make savings. Rachel Reeves, we will talk

:14:10.:14:14.

to you about how Labour would make savings to the whopping welfare

:14:15.:14:17.

bill, but it will not make the savings you thought. It is more

:14:18.:14:24.

about social justice for overcrowded families

:14:25.:14:42.

about social justice for overcrowded Rachel, your counsel -- you could

:14:43.:14:48.

encourage swapping in your counsel. Then you could have at allocation of

:14:49.:14:55.

our social housing in this country. You are so out of touch. We have

:14:56.:14:59.

more than 400 thousand people who are disabled and affect it. We have

:15:00.:15:05.

ads who now can't have their children to come and stay because

:15:06.:15:10.

they will only have a one-bedroom policy. This policy targets the most

:15:11.:15:14.

vulnerable and disabled people in our community. There is a hardship

:15:15.:15:21.

fund for them. Tyre two thirds of the discretionary housing payments

:15:22.:15:24.

in Leeds have already been used in the first six months, despite the

:15:25.:15:28.

fact that Leeds council top it up by another quarter of a million. Before

:15:29.:15:33.

I ask Noreena about it, four of your coalition partners also

:15:34.:15:52.

I ask Noreena about it, four of your and housing associations, you need

:15:53.:15:56.

to take more of the responsibility in ensuring there is a fair

:15:57.:15:59.

allocation of our housing resources. They have been asleep at the wheel

:16:00.:16:02.

for years. The housing benefit bill has doubled. We ought to have that

:16:03.:16:07.

conversation with housing authorities. This policy has been

:16:08.:16:17.

made without a any real thought about how it is going to work. The

:16:18.:16:21.

mismatch between demand and supply is immense. There is only 3% of

:16:22.:16:26.

one-bedroom homes are available to the people who would want to move.

:16:27.:16:32.

When you think it is the most vulnerable in society who are

:16:33.:16:36.

worried about eviction, potentially having to live away from their

:16:37.:16:38.

social support networks, geographically, it really smacks of

:16:39.:16:42.

a policy that cannot be justified. geographically, it really smacks of

:16:43.:17:04.

policies. I just don't buy this idea that some of these are a spare

:17:05.:17:11.

bedrooms. You have not answered the question. There is not the social

:17:12.:17:15.

housing available because Labour did not build enough and got rid of some

:17:16.:17:19.

when in power. To some extent, the party created this problem. What

:17:20.:17:26.

would you do to cut the welfare bill? Annus horribilis

:17:27.:17:31.

house-building under this government is at the lowest level since 19 --

:17:32.:17:38.

house-building under this government is at the lowest level since the

:17:39.:17:46.

1920s. Let me and to the question about how Labour would reduce the

:17:47.:17:51.

Social Security Bill. -- answer. First of all, for example, building

:17:52.:17:53.

housing First of all, for example, building

:17:54.:18:12.

than a living wage. If you reduce the number is paid less than the

:18:13.:18:15.

living wage, you would be paying less out in housing benefit and less

:18:16.:18:22.

out in... They are tackling the bill. They are tackling the overall

:18:23.:18:32.

figure. They are not. It is by 9 billion. The benefit bill is

:18:33.:18:40.

rising. You have more people in part-time work, low paid work. If we

:18:41.:18:44.

can get more people into better paid jobs, if we can build social

:18:45.:18:49.

housing, that is a real way to reduce the bill. How much would you

:18:50.:18:59.

want to see come off? I would like to see it come down. I will not put

:19:00.:19:01.

a number on it. to see it come down. I will not put

:19:02.:19:21.

paid enough in their jobs. Charlie Elphicke, do you accept the benefit

:19:22.:19:26.

bill has increased because of some of your policies? To no, I don't. We

:19:27.:19:35.

are reforming welfare. Labour opposed ?81 billion worth of

:19:36.:19:40.

benefits savings. They opposed what we are talking about today, they

:19:41.:19:45.

opposed Universal Credit. They now say they supported. They oppose

:19:46.:19:52.

every single reform we have been putting through. They let the

:19:53.:19:56.

welfare bill get out of control. That is why we have been taking

:19:57.:19:59.

tough decisions. They have opposed them. The welfare bill is rising

:20:00.:20:07.

under the Conservatives because you are not building houses and people

:20:08.:20:08.

are in low paid work. are not building houses and people

:20:09.:20:30.

People with more disabilities are disproportionately housed. To take

:20:31.:20:36.

that protection away from some of the most vulnerable people, that is

:20:37.:20:41.

unjust. What would you do to cut the bill? What needs to be done is a

:20:42.:20:47.

complete evaluation of the affordable housing needs for this

:20:48.:20:52.

country in general. It is estimated we need 1 million more houses by

:20:53.:20:56.

2021 if we're going to make this country's needs. This needs to be

:20:57.:21:01.

part of a whole package of thinking about how people in this country are

:21:02.:21:06.

going to be able to afford homes. Thank you both very much. Now stop

:21:07.:21:10.

it, just stop it. Stop looking at that email when you're meant to be

:21:11.:21:13.

listening to me. Put down that iPhone. You can finish that text

:21:14.:21:18.

later. And checking out your Facebook account can definitely be

:21:19.:21:20.

left until after the programme, because you need to concentrate.

:21:21.:21:23.

left until after the programme, Open, where she offers tips on

:21:24.:21:42.

wading through the deluge of information out there - and which

:21:43.:21:47.

bits to trust. Noreena says studies show that we can only hold seven

:21:48.:21:51.

pieces of information in our minds at once. As much as seven! But we

:21:52.:22:00.

make more than 10,000 decisions every day. And 227 of them are just

:22:01.:22:06.

about food. Yes, that I can understand! Although email can make

:22:07.:22:09.

life easier, it can also be our enemy - last year, more that 200

:22:10.:22:13.

million emails were sent every minute of every day. On average we

:22:14.:22:18.

change windows and check email or other programmes 37 times an hour.

:22:19.:22:22.

That's a lot of interruptions to the working day. And we've also been

:22:23.:22:25.

joined by Tom Cheshire, associate editor of Wired magazine, who has

:22:26.:22:29.

written about what's been called the hyperstimulation of our

:22:30.:22:32.

touchscreen-based lives. Welcome to the Daily Politics.

:22:33.:22:50.

touchscreen-based lives. Welcome to hunter gatherers, and go direct to

:22:51.:22:55.

the source without the spin of politicians or companies, or

:22:56.:22:57.

journalists. That is a huge opportunity that should be embraced.

:22:58.:23:02.

On the other hand, we are drowning in data. It is estimated that one

:23:03.:23:08.

edition of the New York Times has as much information in it as somebody

:23:09.:23:12.

would have been exposed to in their entire lifetime in the 17th century.

:23:13.:23:17.

Technology is racing ahead faster than our bodies are able to evolve

:23:18.:23:23.

and catch up with. There is a challenge. A challenge navigating

:23:24.:23:28.

who to trust, who to believe, what to do. That is what we are not

:23:29.:23:34.

taught about, how to sit -- sift through that information? Exactly.

:23:35.:23:41.

The reason is it is all so new to us.

:23:42.:24:02.

The reason is it is all so new to themselves a little bit. They are

:24:03.:24:04.

slightly less frazzled by it than we are. Generation worry about the

:24:05.:24:10.

amount of screen time, about losing traditional skills in terms of

:24:11.:24:13.

reading and writer with pen and paper. But actually, recently there

:24:14.:24:20.

has been more written about the advantages of having an agile mind

:24:21.:24:23.

able to deal with these electronic gadgets. Do you think there is

:24:24.:24:28.

something in that? Yes, the way the world is going, we will manage

:24:29.:24:38.

things. The default this will always be there. You lose the ability to

:24:39.:24:45.

concentrate and unless you have the stimulation of flickering lights and

:24:46.:24:47.

everything moving quickly, you lose interest. Our

:24:48.:25:09.

had before. That is our generation versus the digital natives, the kids

:25:10.:25:12.

who have been brought up by your son on the iPad, watching telly and text

:25:13.:25:20.

thing at the same time. These kids are probably, and it is too early to

:25:21.:25:25.

know definitively, they may well be developing skills that are about --

:25:26.:25:33.

very useful. Digital natives is a problematic term because they still

:25:34.:25:36.

have to learn their stuff. And they learned mainly from their parents. I

:25:37.:25:40.

think what would be really good is if Peter started bringing digital

:25:41.:25:48.

media into the classroom and teach them best practice. -- people. One

:25:49.:25:55.

thing that I am concerned about is that the kind of research skills

:25:56.:25:59.

that we had are being lost. digital literacy. That is about

:26:00.:26:21.

making the right decisions. If you are trusting one piece, if you are

:26:22.:26:28.

using random reason, then you are not going to make the right decision

:26:29.:26:32.

necessarily when it comes to choosing a hospital or a school, or

:26:33.:26:37.

a new vacuum cleaner. How do you know who to trust? We need to be

:26:38.:26:43.

cautious. Up to a third of online reviews are estimated to be fake,

:26:44.:26:49.

false. We need to be cautious navigating this space. The kind of

:26:50.:26:53.

research skills that journalists are taught, are not what kids are being

:26:54.:26:58.

taught today about how you cooperate material, how you research, how you

:26:59.:27:04.

test whether it is potentially reliable are valid. Are people

:27:05.:27:09.

everything put out there. Everything everything put out there. Everything

:27:10.:27:30.

design lead. It is great people want to do that. Because there is so much

:27:31.:27:36.

out there, people realise that. At least they are getting the

:27:37.:27:40.

information they may not have had in the first place. Do you think there

:27:41.:27:44.

is too much information on things like education when it comes to

:27:45.:27:47.

league tables, when it comes to looking at the performance of

:27:48.:27:50.

doctors and consultants? Is that a good thing? There is a danger we

:27:51.:27:56.

succumb to the cult of the measurable. Not everything can be so

:27:57.:28:11.

easily measured. But I think our opportunity to become more informed,

:28:12.:28:13.

not only through these official channels, but by reaching out on

:28:14.:28:15.

Facebook to your network and asking a question, by sharing symptoms of a

:28:16.:28:18.

rare condition that your doctor has not been able to identify, we have

:28:19.:28:21.

the opportunity to become not been able to identify, we have

:28:22.:28:40.

knowledge. Is that potentially a dangerous thing? Yes, I think it is

:28:41.:28:48.

potentially. It is interesting, this social side of it is really good.

:28:49.:28:55.

Because everybody now has got a specific ailment, they are talking

:28:56.:29:00.

with each other. That is really great. That is not hypochondriacs

:29:01.:29:05.

talking about it. What the social web 's letters do is take the first

:29:06.:29:11.

step on which is pure information. We are still finding our way. Are

:29:12.:29:16.

people at risk of being socially excluded that they are not into all

:29:17.:29:19.

of the social networks, or even some of them? Some people spend so much

:29:20.:29:26.

time on them. Could you be socially excluded if you are not part of the

:29:27.:29:28.

Twitter Facebook Brigade? I excluded if you are not part of the

:29:29.:29:49.

Glasses that Google has created when you can get information. And what I

:29:50.:29:56.

discovered is that I have bad eyesight in my left eye. The glasses

:29:57.:30:01.

on your left eye discriminated against me. I couldn't actually get

:30:02.:30:10.

any of the information. Or will it stop? You -- You may not be on

:30:11.:30:17.

Twitter or Facebook and have dodgy eyesight. If you are not accessing

:30:18.:30:25.

the information, you may be at a disadvantage. Is there anything we

:30:26.:30:30.

can do as the adult generation to cope with the deluge, to try and

:30:31.:30:35.

control it and not get overwhelmed? It is about managing your attention.

:30:36.:30:39.

There is a It is about managing your attention.

:30:40.:30:58.

just being aware of it can help. You can think much should I go in and

:30:59.:31:03.

reply to a rural one and have a fun time? It is a discipline. President

:31:04.:31:12.

Obama told David Cameron that the most useful thing you can do in your

:31:13.:31:15.

day is to actively carve out thinking time. There is the allure

:31:16.:31:19.

of checking your Twitter feed or Facebook, and it is even more

:31:20.:31:24.

important to actively carve out 30 minutes a day to think. I can manage

:31:25.:31:30.

that. Over the years, there have been some

:31:31.:31:34.

classic battles across the dispatch box in the House of Commons. Tony

:31:35.:31:39.

Blair versus Michael Howard, John Prescott versus William Hague, David

:31:40.:31:43.

Cameron versus Gordon Brown. But now there was a new game in town. Look

:31:44.:31:47.

at this, from yesterday's education questions. Can the Secretary of

:31:48.:31:50.

State his GCSE reforms, because he has

:31:51.:32:12.

introduced the soft ego tree of low expectations into our education

:32:13.:32:14.

system. He might have enjoyed studying the works of Jane Austin

:32:15.:32:20.

and Wilfred Owen, but the Education Secretary is denying England's

:32:21.:32:25.

pupils the same access to our great national canon if they only take the

:32:26.:32:30.

English language GCSE. If it was all right at him on at Robert Gordon's

:32:31.:32:35.

College, why is it not okayed the kids in Harlow and Blackpool today?

:32:36.:32:39.

Will he now urgently review the changes doing this GCSE, or will he

:32:40.:32:49.

continue to dumb down our syllabus? Tragically, when I was a student in

:32:50.:32:53.

Aberdeen, I was not able to take English GCSE because I was in

:32:54.:32:57.

Scotland, and GCSEs were not on offer at that time. As they hissed

:32:58.:32:58.

Dorian, it offer at that time. As they hissed

:32:59.:33:20.

be the case that English will not count unless students study both

:33:21.:33:24.

English language and literature, and the English baccalaureate, which he

:33:25.:33:28.

supports, will only be conferred on students if they study both the

:33:29.:33:32.

English-language and English literature. He talks about Jane

:33:33.:33:35.

Austin. One of the tragedies at the moment is that fewer than 1% of

:33:36.:33:40.

students who sit there GCSE actually read a word of Jane Austin. I

:33:41.:33:44.

recommend to him one text of Jane Austin's before he asked another

:33:45.:33:48.

question in this house. Pride And Prejudice. A knowledge of both would

:33:49.:33:52.

help him be a more effective opposition spokesman. Ooh! That was

:33:53.:33:59.

the new shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt, tacking Michael Gove

:34:00.:34:01.

across the dispatch box yesterday. We have been joined by the

:34:02.:34:06.

Guardian's sketch writer and assistant editor, Michael White. How

:34:07.:34:08.

did Tristram Hunt do? He assistant editor, Michael White. How

:34:09.:34:29.

do. He is a drop-dead gorgeous looking fella. I can say that

:34:30.:34:39.

because I am a bloke. I was not the only one who likened him to Mr Darcy

:34:40.:34:42.

after that, but Michael Gove dropped him off at the knees. Jane Austin

:34:43.:34:47.

would have been proud. That was a tough baptism of fire. It was

:34:48.:34:53.

Tristram Hunt's first time. This will be great material for the

:34:54.:34:57.

sketch writer. If you have got Mr Darcy, who is Michael Gove 's some

:34:58.:35:03.

caddish vigour. It was the fellow who ran off with Jane's sister? Took

:35:04.:35:08.

her to Brighton and was forced to make an honest woman of her? Why am

:35:09.:35:13.

I saying this about Michael Gove 's I take it all back. At some more

:35:14.:35:19.

caddish fellow out of the Jane Austin can. We will

:35:20.:35:38.

caddish fellow out of the Jane historian. This guy may have

:35:39.:35:43.

potential. He is bright and energetic and he has come into

:35:44.:35:46.

politics when he could have done less demanding things. He is no

:35:47.:35:50.

friend of mine, but you wish him well. You want politics to be run by

:35:51.:35:56.

people who know what they are doing. Do you think it is enlightening?

:35:57.:36:00.

Would you ever watch this sort of debate? I think Tristram Hunt is a

:36:01.:36:09.

catch for Labour. If Labour is to have a serious chance of winning the

:36:10.:36:14.

next election, it needs these charismatic people we can

:36:15.:36:22.

recognise. And he fits very well. Will he be wounded by that exchange?

:36:23.:36:30.

They are always wounded. If your name

:36:31.:36:30.

They are always wounded. If your to check. What about the language? I

:36:31.:36:50.

was there in the House of Commons to listen to some of this debate. The

:36:51.:36:54.

language was quite emotive. Tristram Hunt said the soft bigotry of low

:36:55.:37:02.

expectations. Sounded poetic. It is a bit ground, but he is trying to

:37:03.:37:05.

throw back at the Tories the charge they constantly make against Labour,

:37:06.:37:10.

which is that they lowered expectationss and had grade

:37:11.:37:13.

inflation and all that. There is enough truth in it to stick, but it

:37:14.:37:17.

is mean, because the whole comprehensive system also raised

:37:18.:37:20.

expectations for a lot of people. I am a grammar school boy myself. It

:37:21.:37:31.

was an attempt to throw back at the Tories some class warfare. It was

:37:32.:37:37.

not the only bit of entertainment in the House of Commons yesterday,

:37:38.:37:40.

because we also had an apology from the

:37:41.:37:40.

because we also had an apology from information. I wish to apologise to

:37:41.:38:02.

the house fully for what was a genuinely inadvertent breach of the

:38:03.:38:05.

rules, which I have sought to comply with. She said the media went nuts

:38:06.:38:13.

over this inadvertent breach. Did they? Lee well, they had a good time

:38:14.:38:25.

from it. Nadine Dorries is good business for sketch writers. I don't

:38:26.:38:31.

want to sound snooty about it, but she is a gift, and she has tripped

:38:32.:38:36.

up. She made a bad mistake. How bad was it? Not declaring a high income

:38:37.:38:43.

of that kind? It was a bad mistake. The public don't like it. Do you

:38:44.:38:48.

think she should have been more humble about it? She said

:38:49.:38:50.

got a line there in the small print, but she was caught out. She loves

:38:51.:39:11.

celebrity, let's not pretend she does not relish it. What did she say

:39:12.:39:16.

about Dave and George? Posh boys who don't know the price of a pint of

:39:17.:39:20.

milk. She said that on this programme. It is a good line, and

:39:21.:39:25.

they will not forgive her for it. Now, there is no Prime Minister's

:39:26.:39:30.

Questions tomorrow, because Parliament is in recess. It is just

:39:31.:39:35.

a short break. MPs will be back in action next Monday. At inevitably,

:39:36.:39:39.

the fact that politicians are heading home early this week raises

:39:40.:39:42.

questions about the amount of holiday MPs get. In a moment, we

:39:43.:39:46.

will discuss what politicians get up to during recess, but first, here is

:39:47.:39:50.

Quentin Letts of the Daily Mail, with his A to Z guide to Parliament.

:39:51.:39:59.

R is for They have several recesses a year.

:40:00.:40:32.

The longer is in the summer, which tends to be about seven weeks. Then

:40:33.:40:36.

they have another for the party conference season. They used to go

:40:37.:40:40.

to the seaside for those. These days, it is more like town centres

:40:41.:40:46.

such as Manchester and Birmingham. Christmas is next, for about three

:40:47.:40:50.

weeks. Then you get a week during February for half term and a couple

:40:51.:40:53.

of weeks for Easter, maybe ten days for the Whit holiday at the end of

:40:54.:40:58.

May, and if you are lucky, a couple of days just before the State

:40:59.:41:01.

Opening of Parliament. It is about 14 weeks in all. Elements may halt,

:41:02.:41:07.

but MPs, as they never tire of telling us,

:41:08.:41:10.

but MPs, as they never tire of government gave very little notice

:41:11.:41:29.

of when the house was going to be in recess. Information was power. The

:41:30.:41:34.

lawmaking process is uncertain, and to let an opposition no far in

:41:35.:41:36.

advance when the house was going to be breaking up gave them an

:41:37.:41:39.

advantage. But the government has become more reasonable now. It

:41:40.:41:45.

allows MPs to get those cheap deals on the package holidays. It is

:41:46.:41:48.

possible for Parliament to be recalled if ministers ask them to do

:41:49.:41:55.

that. This happens every two years. In 2011, after the summer riots, it

:41:56.:42:00.

happened. And it happened after the Falkland Islands were invaded and it

:42:01.:42:03.

happened after 911. One good on about the house not sitting is that

:42:04.:42:06.

it stops those MPs passing too many laws. By the way, if you happen to

:42:07.:42:11.

be in London on holiday yourself and the MPs are on recess, don't worry,

:42:12.:42:14.

you can still go into and have a look around Parliament. Mind you,

:42:15.:42:15.

the place might be a bit deserted. Michael White is ill here. We did

:42:16.:42:38.

not manage to get rid of you after the last item. Peter Bone, what are

:42:39.:42:42.

you going to do with recess? If people come to Parliament tomorrow,

:42:43.:42:45.

they can see me, because I will be working on constituent is Miss. On

:42:46.:42:50.

Thursday, I am meeting constituents in the morning and I have a school

:42:51.:42:54.

visit in the afternoon. On Friday, I have a surgery in the morning and a

:42:55.:42:57.

factory visit in the afternoon and a constituent meetings in the evening.

:42:58.:43:00.

Saturday morning, the listening campaign is out all over

:43:01.:43:05.

Wellingborough, listening to people, talking, shaking hands. On Sunday, I

:43:06.:43:10.

go to church and have a constituency meeting in the afternoon. So I am

:43:11.:43:13.

not sure where the recess is getting in. It is useful for all that

:43:14.:43:21.

constituency work. Yes, there is a need to let MPs get back to their

:43:22.:43:26.

constituency and do the proper job of representing, rather than being

:43:27.:43:27.

stuck in the Westminster bubble, of representing, rather than being

:43:28.:43:46.

quick break to Majorca to take advantage of the winter sun. I don't

:43:47.:43:52.

know anyone doing that. I would say lazy voters deserve to be

:43:53.:43:56.

represented in parliament and have a few lazy MPs. If they were all

:43:57.:44:01.

working like Peter Bone all the time, it would be less interesting.

:44:02.:44:10.

There are some who work all the time. One of them always puts the

:44:11.:44:19.

boot in on MPs despite working all the time. But he is consistent in

:44:20.:44:25.

his criticism. Do you want MPs working all the time, or would you

:44:26.:44:30.

like to hear that sort of schedule from every MP? I would like that

:44:31.:44:34.

level of transparency I now feel I have with your diary. That is the

:44:35.:44:38.

problem. There is a public perception

:44:39.:44:38.

a diary like yours. I don't know about that, but maybe I should

:44:39.:45:05.

tweet. People who tweet, I am just getting on a bus, we have better

:45:06.:45:11.

things to do. But you have to justify that you are doing things.

:45:12.:45:18.

Most people know what they're MPs are like. It is MPs in general that

:45:19.:45:23.

they don't like. How do you get rid of that perception? We do things

:45:24.:45:28.

like this. A lot of stuff is perception. I did not get back to

:45:29.:45:33.

the flat in Westminster until after one o'clock this morning because we

:45:34.:45:36.

sat late and I did some more work afterwards. People see the

:45:37.:45:40.

chancellor on at eight in the morning Intellivision and see a vote

:45:41.:45:43.

at 11 in the evening, and do not put the two things together, but the guy

:45:44.:45:47.

has been working the two things together, but the guy

:45:48.:46:05.

many people, it is a sacrifice. It is a miserable job. Everybody hates

:46:06.:46:10.

you. You used to work as a lawyer in the city and got three times more

:46:11.:46:15.

pay. Do you think David Cameron could not make more than the Prime

:46:16.:46:20.

Minister's salary? They just love it. They are addicted to politics. I

:46:21.:46:27.

am quite addicted to it. Do you think they should do other things,

:46:28.:46:32.

have more rounded MPs? Do more things outside the remit of

:46:33.:46:38.

politics? I am also concerned about, is there enough time to give

:46:39.:46:44.

legislation the due emphasis it has two have with the current structure.

:46:45.:46:53.

I think that is a real concern. Why is the chamber so often empty, or so

:46:54.:46:57.

empty during debates, when Parliament is

:46:58.:47:15.

empty during debates, when are right. Traditionally there were

:47:16.:47:17.

lots of MPs who did not go to education and health debates,

:47:18.:47:20.

because they were more interested in defence and foreign affairs. There

:47:21.:47:26.

are still a few MPs who have a lot of outside interests and do not do

:47:27.:47:30.

the job properly. That is the minority. Yes, you should have other

:47:31.:47:34.

outside interests. I have only been an MP for eight years. I think this

:47:35.:47:39.

parliament is made up of a lot more people who are interested in

:47:40.:47:43.

Parliament. We are beginning to move power back from the executive. The

:47:44.:47:49.

fact that Andrew Tyree is chairman of the select committee, giving

:47:50.:47:57.

bankers a hard time. That is a good thing. The odd thing about TV,

:47:58.:48:03.

voters can see the empty benches and reporters, we stay out of the

:48:04.:48:06.

gallery too, because we can watch it on TV in our

:48:07.:48:07.

gallery too, because we can watch it are doing ten other things. We don't

:48:08.:48:31.

know what they are doing. If you go onto the Parliament channel, you can

:48:32.:48:36.

watch the lot. Giving bankers a hard time in committee is a better use of

:48:37.:48:42.

your time than making speeches. Where does the power life a

:48:43.:48:45.

backbench MP? Is it not worth sitting in on those debates? Is it

:48:46.:48:53.

better to go with trying to quiz vested interest? Michael is quite

:48:54.:48:58.

right. The select committee is really getting hold. Keith Vaz does

:48:59.:49:04.

an excellent job. Quizzing witnesses is a big part of the job. But we

:49:05.:49:08.

still have a long way to go. Parliament is to have more power

:49:09.:49:12.

back from the executive. Happy holiday. Thank you.

:49:13.:49:15.

Now, if you're a fan of That was a clip from the new series

:49:16.:50:06.

of the Danish TV series Borgen, which returns on BBC Four this

:50:07.:50:10.

Saturday night. And we've been joined by the writer of Borgen, Adam

:50:11.:50:23.

Price. I loved it. I absolutely love it. I

:50:24.:50:26.

cant wait I loved it. I absolutely love it. I

:50:27.:50:45.

not travel. They thought perhaps the Swedes and Norwegians would buy it.

:50:46.:50:49.

But that would be it. If you were a commissioning editor, would you

:50:50.:50:54.

consider five years ago buying a Danish drama about politics? Why has

:50:55.:51:03.

it been such a hit here? We are very grateful for the killing for paving

:51:04.:51:08.

the way. Then, I think, the characters. When you scratch the

:51:09.:51:13.

surface of the politics, when you get beneath the Danish coalition

:51:14.:51:17.

politics stuff, then you actually get to something which is a

:51:18.:51:25.

universal thing. The dynamics of power, the mechanics of power. It is

:51:26.:51:30.

pretty much the same. What about the fact that Birgitte Nyborg, the

:51:31.:51:36.

woman, is appealing in her role? Do you

:51:37.:51:56.

we don't consider that particular thing as exotic as you probably do

:51:57.:52:03.

here. No. We have had a female Prime Minister but not that quite recently

:52:04.:52:07.

-- not that recently. People speculated that the Denny 's was

:52:08.:52:14.

elected because of the programme. Do you think that is true? -- Danish

:52:15.:52:23.

Prime Minister. Definitely not. That was a coincidence. One of the things

:52:24.:52:27.

as a criticism is, having watched both series, I got the impression in

:52:28.:52:31.

the end you are saying that women just cannot have it all will stop

:52:32.:52:36.

that actually she became Prime Minister but only because her

:52:37.:52:38.

marriage collapsed and her home life was destroyed, if you like. Is that

:52:39.:52:43.

what you are trying to say? That is the price you have to pay? There

:52:44.:53:04.

what you are trying to say? That is we obviously cannot. The series is

:53:05.:53:06.

about that conflict you have to choose all the time. Sometimes those

:53:07.:53:14.

choices bear consequences. She had been a man, would you have given her

:53:15.:53:19.

the same outcome? It would not have been as painful to watch. We have

:53:20.:53:28.

gotten used to men. Men have 10,000 years of practice of letting down

:53:29.:53:34.

their wives and their families. What can you tell us about what is going

:53:35.:53:40.

to happen in this series? She is no longer Prime Minister. No, she is

:53:41.:53:45.

not. That was the big challenge we gave ourselves. What if she loses

:53:46.:53:51.

the election? That was the first question. Then, we meet are doing

:53:52.:53:55.

something completely different. it first started, that I am going to

:53:56.:54:15.

be a little bit narcissistic year, I used it for a piece. We used

:54:16.:54:22.

Birgitte Nyborg. Do you think that is a good rendition of organ? It is

:54:23.:54:31.

perfect! If you do another series, can I be in it? Very noncommittal!

:54:32.:54:41.

We thought it had so much impact, that it was taken up by Sony people

:54:42.:54:45.

here. I wonder if I am going to be disappointed by this third series? I

:54:46.:54:50.

hope not. We really challenge ourselves and our audience. Has

:54:51.:54:56.

reignited a passion for politics in Denmark? According to a survey, it

:54:57.:55:05.

has. Are you surprised it has taken off the way it has?

:55:06.:55:24.

has. Are you surprised it has taken you have got great stories, people

:55:25.:55:26.

trying to get their bit of power is very intriguing for us as viewers. I

:55:27.:55:31.

am looking forward to watching the box set. What about political drama

:55:32.:55:37.

in the UK? What about some kind of programme you could spearhead here?

:55:38.:55:43.

Well, I am working on a project. That is all I can say. Together with

:55:44.:55:48.

Michael Dobbs. We are having great fun. When will you be able to talk

:55:49.:55:59.

about it? Time will tell. To quote the house of cards, I could not

:56:00.:56:05.

possibly comment. You are definitely not going to do another series of

:56:06.:56:12.

Morgan? No. Morgan has ended now. -- organ. We do

:56:13.:56:35.

Morgan? No. Morgan has ended now. -- of its run? I would much rather

:56:36.:56:41.

ended, hopefully, on a mountaintop, hopefully as good as the series can

:56:42.:56:45.

possibly be, instead of letting it died out. What about the characters?

:56:46.:56:52.

They have hit the big-time in Denmark. The advantage of being

:56:53.:56:56.

Scandinavian is that most people can speak English, so travel, too. What

:56:57.:57:04.

happens to their careers? Some of them are developing international

:57:05.:57:07.

careers. Sidse Babett Knudsen has done several things internationally.

:57:08.:57:13.

Will it put Danish TV or drama ahead? I hope it will go further.

:57:14.:57:25.

There are more shows coming. Despite the fact they do not do much

:57:26.:57:46.

There are more shows coming. Despite teamwork. We have been very

:57:47.:57:50.

influenced by the directors, by the actors, obviously. Sidse Babett

:57:51.:57:55.

Knudsen had a great say in her own part. I did learn a bit of Danish by

:57:56.:58:02.

watching it but I have forgotten it now. There's just time before we go

:58:03.:58:06.

to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was: Who of the

:58:07.:58:09.

following doesn't have a tattoo? Cheryl Cole is got one on her

:58:10.:58:24.

bottom. Samantha Cameron has got one on her ankle. David Dimbleby has a

:58:25.:58:30.

scorpion on his shoulder. So it must be Andrew Neil. I'm not sure I could

:58:31.:58:34.

prove it. be Andrew Neil. I'm not sure I could

:58:35.:58:57.

Thank you very much. Have a good afternoon. Goodbye.

:58:58.:59:03.

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