Browse content similar to 19/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Hospitals in England will have to publish details of their staffing | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
levels from next year, as the Health Secretary makes a series of changes | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
to improve patient care. The SNP says independence would | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
boost Scotland's economy. We'll talk to the Scottish Finance Minister | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
John Swinney. Should companies be forced to have | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
more women on their boards? We'll debate a plan being discussed by | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
MEPs which would set a target of 40%. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
And, we'll have the latest on the crack-smoking Toronto mayor who | :01:11. | :01:19. | |
refuses to step down. Everybody has skeletons in their closet. Mine have | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
been exposed. If the council wants to strip me of all my powers, do | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
whatever they want to do. It would never happen here, of | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
course! All that in the next hour. With us | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
for the whole programme today is the radio presenter, Conservative | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
blogger and political publisher Iain Dale. Welcome back to the Daily | :01:44. | :01:44. | |
Politics. Let's start with the latest on the | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
Canadian mayor who has admitted to smoking crack cocaine. Yesterday, | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
members of Toronto City Council voted to strip Rob Ford of most of | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
his official powers because he's refused to resign. And he's showing | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
no signs of going quietly. He's declared war on the city council, | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
and took to the airwaves last night on his own TV show. | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
Everybody has skeletons in their closet. Mine have been exposed. I | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
can't speak for anyone else but if the council was to strip me of all | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
my powers, do what they ever -- do what ever they want to do. They have | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
their rights. I think it is wrong, it is illegal. But the people will | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
have their say on October the 27th. A return on every phone call in my | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
office. I will continue to go to people front door to serve them. | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
He is really fighting to stay on. Where does this end? | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
If he was in this country, he would have gone weeks ago. Because of what | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
he did. These are not minor transgressions. Watching that film, | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
I thought, is that the head of the Co-op bank? There is a remarkable | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
physical similarity. We have a fairly colourful London | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
Mayor, can you imagine if he got up to those shenanigans? It does seem | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
remarkable he is still there. He doesn't see the writing on the | :03:13. | :03:14. | |
wall. Do you think the case he is making | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
that people can have their say, he is an elected official, he has | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
admitted what he has done. But now, he is clean. | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
Perhaps he should put himself up for re-election. He might actually win, | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
he still has a remarkable level of support among the people. He wants | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
to come across as a man of the people. | :03:41. | :03:48. | |
What you think of the idea that he would like to run for prime | :03:49. | :03:50. | |
minister. We think of Canada as a boring | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
country! One of our reporters said, for the | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
quiet, genteel city of Toronto, this is a shock, they have never seen | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
anything like it. I interviewed a Toronto radio | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
journalist. He asked if this was big news in England. He was surprised by | :04:09. | :04:17. | |
it. Word is surprised by him? A maverick personality. This has come | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
out in the last few months. Has it taken the city by surprise, they did | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
not know their city mayor. He is a larger than life character. | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
Mavericks do well in elections, we know that from London. But he should | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
go. It's time for our daily quiz. | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
According to one well-informed columnist, Ed Miliband's team have a | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
nickname for Ed Balls's team. So what are they known as? | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
Is it: The bandits? The cowboys? The pirates? | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
The clowns? At the end of the show, Iain will | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
give us the correct answer. I'm sure you know. You reckon? | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
The report of the Francis Inquiry into the failings at Mid | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
Staffordshire NHS Trust, was published in February this year. In | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
March, the government set out its initial response. Today, the Health | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
Secretary Jeremy Hunt is making a further statement to Parliament, | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
which will explain what the government plans to do in response | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
to Francis's 290 recommendations. The aim is to bring about a radical | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
change in the culture of care in England's hospitals, as well as | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
making reforms to how they are run. At the weekend, Mr Hunt talked about | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
creating a new criminal offence of' "wilful neglect" for medics, which | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
would be punishable by a jail term. But the BMA, which represents | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
doctors, warned that it could create a "climate of fear", and discourage | :05:42. | :05:50. | |
whistle-blowers. There will also be a new duty on doctors and nurses to | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
report "near misses" when patients have been put at risk. | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
But perhaps the biggest change will be on staff levels. Francis found | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
that a "chronic shortage of staff, particularly nursing staff, was | :06:02. | :06:03. | |
largely responsible for the substandard care" at Stafford | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
Hospital. So, from April, hospitals in England will have to publish | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
staffing levels on a monthly basis, on a publicly available website. | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
This morning, the Chief Nursing Officer from NHS England, Jane | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
Cummings, explained how that might work. | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
What we want people to do is to use evidence to determine what the | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
staffing should be on a ward by ward basis. And to talk about that | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
publicly, to publish whether they are meeting those staffing levels. | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
If they are not, to describe what they are doing about it. The key is | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
making sure we give patients and their relatives and carers the | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
confidence we are able to provide safe care. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
With us is Janet Davies from the Royal College of Nursing. And, in | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
Salford, Jennie Forcett from the pressure group Patients First. | :06:59. | :08:02. | |
Is it a good idea We know more than one qualified | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
nurse for eight patients, more than that is dangerous. Within that | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
land, sometimes less, it depends on the patient. The important thing is | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
it needs to be based on evidence. It depends on the speciality and tap | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
the patient. Do you agree, would you like to see | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
those ratios put in place? One nurse to eight patients, | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
evidence shows that is where patient care starts to become compromised. | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
You have to look at the dependency. That can change from day, to | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
night-time, depending if you are caring for the elderly who have | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
greater needs, in maintaining their care needs, or paediatrics. Also, | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
you are looking at patients who have high dependency because of their | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
illness. Patients on intensive care, it needs to be properly looked at. I | :09:07. | :09:17. | |
believe that the government have now asked the experts to look at this. | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
How many nurses will we need? We need to work out how many is | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
right for each hospital ward first. We can't give a total number for | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
England. We are short staffed. It is also the vacancies. This puts the | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
attention of the trust board and managers on to what matters. The c/o | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
the patients, resources, nursing numbers, to ensure that care is safe | :09:46. | :09:57. | |
and beyond safe -- the care of the patients. | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
It is interesting to hear that it is one nurse to eight patients which is | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
worth caring starts to become unsafe. Labour says there are 6000 | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
fewer nurses than when they were in power. | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
We know that posts have been lost. On top of that, the vacancies that | :10:18. | :10:26. | |
are currently in England are about 20,000. We are very short of | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
nurses. It will go some way to redressing the balance, but we need | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
high recruitment of nurses. There need to be 20,000 more nurses | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
according to the Royal College of Nursing. 20,000 vacancies, posts | :10:42. | :10:49. | |
which are already there but not filled. | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
The Francis Report did talk about chronic shortages in some areas in | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
the health service. And a culture in hospitals. Will more nurses | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
necessarily deliver it transformed culture of caring in hospitals? | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
You mentioned earlier on about the duty of staff to report near | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
misses. That is already embedded within the NHS, that has been around | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
for many years. However, staff fear that if they raise concerns, then | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
they will be targeted. And so they remain silent. And, we have had many | :11:28. | :11:38. | |
nurses and doctors who have come to Patients first who have raised | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
concerns about patient safety. And have suffered significantly, boast | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
them and their career, and their families. We feel it is critical | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
that, in order for the government to truly understand the culture that is | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
within the NHS, is to look at cases, whistle-blowing cases where | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
staff have been stopped from working. | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
Iain Dale, will this encourage people to mop -- come forward? | :12:14. | :12:22. | |
You would hope it would. This is partly about numbers, and the | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
standard of compassion of care. There have been too many stories | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
about the lack of compassion shown by some nursing staff. It is also | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
about continuity of care. My mother was in hospital three weeks last | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
year, she died at the end of it. At the end of each week, there were | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
never the same nurses. In three weeks, she saw over 100 nurses. | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
It is sadly not about numbers only. Numbers are the basis. Then we can | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
do some of the other things. Because we don't have the right numbers of | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
staff, we seek agency and temporary staff. A different person every | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
day. If you have a really good team that is constant, you have a chance | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
of really getting the care right, a better attitude. The ward sister is | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
there to manage care and communicate. It's not just about | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
numbers. But you have situations. I remember | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
our experience, it is difficult to make complaints because you worry. A | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
mother asked me not to complain because she was worried the staff | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
would take it out on her. That is a worrying attitude. We say | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
to nurses, that should never be the case. When people complain to the | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
nurses, they really want to make it better. There is that fear, because | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
you are vulnerable as a patient, at the mercy of everything going on. | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
You are not well, in your pyjamas, invulnerable situation. | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
The doctors may understand but are powerless. | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
It is about how we put power back so that care can be provided. We can | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
never defend poor care where it is wilful. Quite often, we don't have | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
the resources or people, and it is difficult to provide compassionate | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
care. Do you think, with the publication | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
of staffing levels, hospital by hospital, we will seek hospitals | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
fall below the expected standards? There have to be the financials | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
resources to meet that demand. It will be critical. It is not just | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
reporting numbers. It is how many registered nurses are on the ward. | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
If you are going to include non-qualified staff in those | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
numbers, that is not really a true reflection. We have concentrated on | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
numbers. These skill mix is critical, making sure you have the | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
people with the right skills to deliver safe, compassionate care in | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
a timely manner. So says a campaign group hoping to | :15:20. | :15:36. | |
stop politicians dithering about infrastructure decisions. Boris | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
Johnson recently reiterated his support for more airport capacity at | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
a speech to the CBI. I welcome the recent statement that we need more | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
runway space in the south-east of this country. Its progress. But we | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
need to go further and to accept there's no point in adding runway | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
space at airports where it will not be used. We already have capacity at | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
Gatwick. We have spare capacity at Stansted. But what is needed is a | :16:05. | :16:13. | |
hub capacity. Adam Fleming is outside Parliament with a more. I'm | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
joined by two people who got -- have got very strong views on this. They | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
are John Allen, the chair of Dixons Medi retailer, who is part of this | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
campaign group, and Nick Faraday, from the campaign group, Airport | :16:33. | :16:43. | |
Watch. The UK needs more airport capacity, particularly hub capacity, | :16:44. | :16:52. | |
to support economic growth. We need politicians to read the report and | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
make a decision and get on with it. Were not taking a view on what the | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
solution should be, simply that the politicians should address it and | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
show some leadership. We have talked about the committee chaired by | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
Howard Davies looking at the long-term issue. He is not going to | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
report until 2015, after the election. Is that to report until | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
2015, after the election. Is that too far in the future for you? It | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
would be better if it were soon, and when he gives the -- but when he | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
gives his report, I think that is still soon enough. Whatever decision | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
is taken, it will take some years to implement. The sooner we start, the | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
sooner we finished. 2014 would be better than 2015. But 2015 is better | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
than nothing. If we don't do anything, if the country parks the | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
issue, what is the worst case scenario? We will lose a share of | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
trade. We will lose a share of inward investment. We will lose a | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
share of tourism. All others are important to the economy. This is a | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
broader issue than just business. We need is a port a growing | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
population. -- we need to support. We may go through the town of years | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
in future that we have seen in the recent past. So, next, you are | :18:22. | :18:30. | |
putting the economy at risk. No, we're not. You have just heard | :18:31. | :18:32. | |
aren't unfounded assertions about how we need more airport capacity to | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
grow the economy. There is no evidence that shortage of airport | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
capacity is harming the economy at the moment. There is no evidence | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
that it will, for a long time, even by 2030. There will still be spare | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
capacity at some of London's airports. There is no immediate | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
problem. Therefore, the politicians will be advised not to be panicked | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
or urged into action or decisions on the basis of just assertions and | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
hype about a shortage of their cup -- airport capacity. They said to be | :19:06. | :19:17. | |
an 80% increase by 2030. National Grid there is said to be. -- there | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
is said to be an 80% increase by 2030. We have authoritative | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
forecasts up to 2050. Issues they would be virtually no shortage until | :19:32. | :19:41. | |
2050. -- it shows. I would rather not trust chomping -- something from | :19:42. | :19:53. | |
a campaign trip. That argument overlooks the importance of hubs. If | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
every runway was used to capacity, there will be more capacity. That is | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
not what travellers want. The travellers can go more conveniently | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
through Amsterdam or Paris, they will do. Surprise surprise, our | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
capacity will cope because people will be going elsewhere. It is | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
equally an assertion that we don't need additional capacity. I travel | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
on business and I see what is happening in the rest of the world. | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
I see that we are in danger of losing a share. This is an | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
enhancement about the future, not now. But the decisions need to be | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
made soon if we are going to be ready when capacity crunch arrives. | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
I know your organisation doesn't have a view of the future option | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
that you should plan for, but do you have a personal view? I am content | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
to wait for the report. The commission are going to study this | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
objectively. They are going to address all the issues that need to | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
be thought about. They will come up with a considered view. I am happy | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
to wait, studied the conclusions and then come to a view once I have read | :21:04. | :21:11. | |
what they have to say. I do not have an entrenched position. I know we | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
need more capacity. How it is delivered, there are a number of | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
ways. The important thing is that whatever the decision, politicians | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
should make it an lead and stick with it. That is important for | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
employment, among other things. We have a lot of young, unemployed | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
people. The right investment is going to help that. It is not just | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
an issue for the south-east. Nick, you can have the last word. Do you | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
think the politicians are on your side or the side of businesses? It | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
is a mixed bag. Some of the politicians around Heathrow are | :21:53. | :21:54. | |
concerned about their constituents, the people who live around the | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
impact of noise and air pollution. Those that are concerned with fraud | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
issues are concerned about the impact of climate change. The | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
government's own committee has pointed out that we can't simply | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
expand aviation indefinitely and build new airports and runways if we | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
are going to take climate change seriously. That has got to be looked | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
at. The Davies commission is going to do that. The politicians will | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
consider that. While I agree that it needs to be looked at and they care | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
decision needs to be made, the decision isn't that we just go ahead | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
and build new airports. In particular, we have just heard that | :22:36. | :22:45. | |
the argument is going on to, we need a hub. Hubs are for people changing | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
planes. That is not a fundamental requirement. We need sufficient | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
capacity for people to fly to and from this country. There is no | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
evidence we don't have it at the moment. There is another two years | :23:00. | :23:08. | |
before a decision. That is the problem. There is still | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
so much time, Iain Dale, before a decision is made. It is a massive | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
political issue. That is the scandal. We're going to go into the | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
next election not knowing what people think about airport capacity. | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
20 years ago, in the halcyon days, they launched a report into capacity | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
in the south-east. Nothing has happened since then. Leticia is all | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
parties have let us down. It really is a scandal. -- politicians of all | :23:41. | :23:49. | |
parties. What should the Conservatives say? | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
They need to say, well, there is going to be an interim 40 in | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
December, they need to give an indication of what their | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
preferences. -- for an interim report in December. Somebody has got | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
to make a decision. Otherwise we are going to become a second rate | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
aviation power. Yesterday, the Institute for Fiscal | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
Studies told us about the economic consequences of Scotland deciding to | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
leave the union and they painted a gloomy picture. The IFS said an | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
independent Scotland would need to raise taxes, cut spending, or both, | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
to keep their public finances in check. Today the Scottish government | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
has released its own paper offering a different view, surprise, | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
surprise. Is that Scotland can afford independence if it is given | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
control of economic policy. Let's talk now to Scotland's finance | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
minister, John Swinney, who joins us from Dundee. Welcome to the | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
programme. Can I start by asking you, the Scottish government is | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
going to get more tax powers under the forthcoming act. Why, in your | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
view, will that not be enough? For the simple reason that once we get | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
all of the control that is vested in the Scotland act, which comes into | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
force in 2015, we will have control over about 15% of taxes raised in | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
Scotland. We don't think that is nearly enough, for the simple reason | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
that if you take the current situation, Scottish economic | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
performance is outclassing the rest of the UK but we don't get the | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
revenue benefit of the fact that we are generating more economic | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
activity and presiding over more economic activity than we were | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
before. What the Scotland act brings is further taxation but not nearly | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
the opportunity to create the economy we need to create to | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
generate opportunities for our people. But economically, the IFS | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
said an independent school and would face a fiscal gap of 2% of national | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
income compared to just 0.8% for the UK. That is looking over the next 50 | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
years. That would require significant spending cuts or tax | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
rises. You accept that? It is important to bear in mind that the | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
context of the IFS report was that they were setting other proposition | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
about Scotland continuing on the current structure. It was in | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
projecting what could happen if some of the measures that we set up this | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
morning were implemented by an independent government. The IFS | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
analysis isn't a surprise. The analysis about the UK is that the UK | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
will be Endeavour set for the next 50 years. What Scotland has got the | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
opportunity to do mid-September is to get out of that situation and to | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
start to take decisions ourselves. -- next September. Even on that | :26:47. | :26:58. | |
basis, though, use API versus using a context that disadvantages | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
Scotland, but actually that is not true. They said to me that you can | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
make a difference and do things better. What is highly likely is | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
that you could do in better things to growth to upset -- offset the | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
challenges you are going to face. You could do things that would be | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
more efficient and perhaps more money, more growth for Scotland. But | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
it still wouldn't meet the gap because the oil revenues are | :27:29. | :27:30. | |
diminishing and you have an ageing population. Scotland, on ageing | :27:31. | :27:39. | |
populations, has a better dependency ratio than the rest of the UK until | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
the 20 30s. We have got to make sure we take action to create the best | :27:46. | :27:52. | |
conditions going forward. Some of the measures we set out today, for | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
example we spoke about the measure to increase economic activity by | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
better childcare services. If we increase the level of economic | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
activity in Scotland by just 1%, it creates over 20,000 new jobs in | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
Scotland, which contributes to our economic future. People have got to | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
consider the depth of analysis we have set out today in the context of | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
the current economic performance of Scotland, which has got better since | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
Gollum was a devolved country because we have more control of the | :28:23. | :28:31. | |
issues here. -- since Scotland. But you say it yourself, there are | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
possibilities. These are projections that you are putting forward. The | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
Scottish economy would have to perform unbelievably well in order | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
to offset the disadvantages of those oil revenues diminishing over time. | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
Do you say the FS is wrong? Are the figures wrong? There is a broader | :28:51. | :29:00. | |
context. I understand that... Look at the comparison of the last 30 | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
years of small, independent European countries. Their growth rates have | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
been about 0.6% higher than the rates in Scotland. If we took the | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
same level of growth, the Scottish economy would be billions of pounds | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
larger than today. What that says to me is that we are able to deliver a | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
better economic future if we have the control of the economic levers | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
that will put Scotland at an advantage. What we have demonstrated | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
since devolution is that we can exercise control more effectively in | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
Scotland. We have to do it across broader ranges of issues. Will you | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
stick to your spending commitments, if Scotland goes independent? We | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
will stick to our existing commitments. There is no facility | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
for tax rises in Scotland. We need to improve economic performance of | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
the country and get Scotland out of the austerity agenda that all of the | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
UK parties seem to have signed up to. We believe there's a way to | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
encourage growth in the economy. We have set out 200 pages and proposals | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
today of how it can come about. It is funny how nobody shares your | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
optimism, even the IFS, who said that under the most optimistic | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
scenario, bringing our national debt would require a 6% reduction in | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
total public spending, a rise of 9% on the basic rate of income tax, or | :30:26. | :30:35. | |
a VAT rate of 28%. The IFS is projecting the analysis of the | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
current arrangements. What I have saying is that if we have economic | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
control and levers at our disposal, we can do things differently. If you | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
look at the current performance just now, the Scottish economy is growing | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
by 1.8%. The UK economy is growing by 1.3%. When we have got control, | :30:57. | :31:07. | |
we can do things better. Corporation tax, where would you set it? | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
We believe corporation tax in Scotland should be set at 3% lower | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
than the rate in the rest of the UK, projected to be 18%. That would | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
realise 27,000 jobs, new jobs creating new taxes, contributing new | :31:26. | :31:33. | |
tax revenue. That's the expansionist agenda we want to take forward, | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
rather than being tied to the austerity agenda of the UK | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
government which has created further economic damage. | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
Alistair Darling has said, why should voters in Scotland gamble on | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
being potentially worse off than they are now? He says on the basis | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
of the ISS reports, your strategy is in tatters. | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
Alistair Darling is hardly a neutral commentator. Hardly a neutral | :32:03. | :32:12. | |
observer. But why take the risk on this? It is a gamble, you said | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
yourself, these are the possibilities. | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
If Alistair Darling were standing here now, and was asked what the tax | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
rate of the UK would be in future, he would not give you an answer. | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
People in Scotland have to take an informed decision over whether they | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
want to be in control of their affairs. My simple point is, based | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
on the performance of the Scottish economy since devolution when we got | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
some control, we have made a good job and improved long-term economic | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
performance. If we have more economic levers, we can do much more | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
to strengthen the Scottish economy and create real opportunities and | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
tackle the damaging inequality that exists within the UK. | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
John Swinney, will you stay with us to answer some questions by | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
viewers? One of the issues is, should Scotland vote yes in the | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
referendum and what would happen to Scottish Parliamentary seats? | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
Scottish Parliamentary seats would still be contested in 2015. Scotland | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
will still be part of the UK in 2015. We envisage the transition | :33:33. | :33:41. | |
being completed in 2016. Does Scotland take on any UK debt, | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
and how much? There are two ways you could | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
consider this. One is on a population basis. So, they do take | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
on the debt? I think, clearly, we would take on a proportion of the | :34:00. | :34:13. | |
debt and a proportion of the assets. We can discuss this on a per capita | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
basis. Or on a historic basis. On both of these measures, Scotland is | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
in a strong position. Why can't Scots in England have a | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
vote on independence? This is a very difficult issue. We | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
want to look at it carefully. I quite understand the fact many | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
people from Scotland live in England, may be temporarily. It is | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
very difficult to establish a reliable franchise base for | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
eligibility to vote. What we opted to do and what has been agreed is | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
that we should take forward the franchise is used for electing the | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
Scottish Parliament and the people eligible will be those eligible to | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
vote in the referendum. Thank you for answering those | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
questions in Dundee. These days, politicians argue how we | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
protect it, who has the right to see it, and how it can help govern. So, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
it was only a matter of time before data became a tool for elections. | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
2015 looks like being the first really digital election. And, as | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
Giles has been finding out, thanks to some big American influence, in | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
all parties' campaigns, data about us is fast becoming king. | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
The sight of our politicians out glad-handing provokes three | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
thoughts. One, oh, hell, it's election time. | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
Two, they've been doing it the same way for years. | :35:43. | :35:44. | |
Or, three, will it ever change? The answer to that is yes. For 2015, | :35:45. | :35:53. | |
it has. What is fascinating is it will be a | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
macro level campaign about big economic questions, living | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
standards. And terribly micro, very localised and targeted. | :36:03. | :36:11. | |
We can move from Mondeo man, Worcester woman, clumps of people. | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
And work out which individuals in each seat are interested in hearing | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
from us. Parties discuss campaigns in terms | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
of an air war. Broadcasting message policy on media platforms. And | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
ground war. Campaigning on the doorstep and in communities | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
face-to-face. Both are crucial. But there may be a new front on the data | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
war. The Conservatives have divided the | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
lecture into eight tribes. Anxious, aspirational, disaffected, and each | :36:45. | :36:52. | |
group will be targeted with personalised campaign literature and | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
information. Data is allowing parties to not just | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
target types of people, but understand which individuals in | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
which seats are the ones which will make the biggest difference. | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
The upshot is, instead of a mass mails hot, you could find your own | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
bespoke message In those places where the seat may be decided on a | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
narrow majority. You, yes, you, may have become very special, whether | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
you like that or not! Research is based not just on what | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
people say about particular policies, it is about their values | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
and attitudes. MPs are being told to ask questions, do you think the | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
future will be better for your children than for you? More | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
promotional stuff rather than just information. | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
Labour are countering in a slightly different way, because they do have | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
a ground war advantage. They have more members, and are using them in | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
community campaigning action, cleaning up public spaces, hosting | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
soup kitchens. It could be an edge. Their best results were in seats | :37:54. | :38:02. | |
with community building. The Labour Party will spread that out across | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
the country. So, it is better at bringing people into the party by | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
making sure they can contribute their time usefully. That gives the | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
Labour Party a bigger volunteer force. | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
It's the Americans who are blame for all this Both the Tories and Labour | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
have Obama campaign veterans recruited. 2015 is looking like our | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
social media election. What the parties have all worked out | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
is people are far more likely to listen to their friends advising | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
them to vote in a particular way than to listen to some random | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
politician turning up on the doorstep. They are hoping to harness | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
this power of Facebook and Twitter to encourage their existing | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
supporters to get people to vote who are not necessarily already | :38:48. | :38:48. | |
supporting them. But there's a warning to disciples | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
of data. It is a national mission that | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
ultimately will drive most of the change in the vote. If you focus on | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
each little part you miss the big picture. | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
And that means any new techniques will campaign hand-in-hand with the | :39:05. | :39:05. | |
old. Giles Dilnot reporting. | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
Iain Dale is still with me. Is this going to be the digital | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
campaign that everyone will remember? It will be about Facebook | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
and Twitter? I sat here four years ago, and that | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
question was put to me. The last election was about the television | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
election. The next election, depending on the debates, will | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
probably also be the television election. The Internet will play an | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
important part but I doubt it will be decided. E-mail is the most | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
important thing. Of course the parties want to use Facebook and | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
Twitter but you could be forgiven for asking if they are serious. The | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
Conservatives launched a new website last week, one of the most dire I | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
have seen. It is exclusive, cold, not interactive, it does everything | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
a political website should not do. The other parties aren't that much | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
better. Although they are slightly more welcoming. They have a long way | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
to go. The Tory election guru says you can't fatten the pig on market | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
day. You can't get into Internet campaigning if you months before the | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
election. But the parties say it is under way. | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
There are some MPs who have been helped by Twitter. It is the idea of | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
personally tailoring politics I am intrigued by. They will cut through | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
the geographical divide on constituencies and personally target | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
people in conversations. This has been going on for years. In | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
1997, I was running a campaign for the Tories and we used direct mail, | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
that was a major innovation. That is now by e-mail. MPs have the value of | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
incumbency. Grant Schapps, he has 23,000 e-mail addresses which he | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
e-mails every week. Of course it will help. Most MPs have maybe if | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
you hundreds. Their task is to build up their e-mail database. | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
Central office will be going for the marginal seats. Tories have the | :41:25. | :41:39. | |
40-40 strategy, keeping 40, targeting 40 marginal seats. | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
Labour do not have as much money. Will they be thinking, this is a | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
cheaper and effective way of targeting? | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
All parties will be thinking that. There is a maximum each party can | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
spend. Never ship is dying out, particularly for the Tories, they | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
don't have the activists on the ground. | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
Will that hand the Labour Party and advantage? Their membership is going | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
up slightly, and they are slightly younger. The Lib Dems, their | :42:10. | :42:19. | |
membership has halved. UKIP, they will mount in much stronger campaign | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
because them ever ship has gone up. I don't see the next election being | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
that much different from the last one in terms of what the parties are | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
doing. Interesting. | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
Should government force companies to increase the number of women on | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
their boards? The EU Commission thinks so and, today, members of the | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
European Parliament are debating the idea of a 40% target. Let's talk | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
about this now with the Labour MEP Mary Honeyball. And Marina | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
Yannakoudakis for the Conservatives. They both join me now from | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
Strasbourg. Welcome to the programme. Mary | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
Honeyball, would it be compulsory for companies to have 40% of women | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
on their board? It will be, this is legislation. We are debating it this | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
afternoon and boating tomorrow. Assuming it goes through the | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
European Parliament, it will have to go through a process, go to the | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
Council of ministers with intense negotiations. Should it go through, | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
then it will be legislated. How would it be enforced? | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
There are provisions in the report for sanctions which each member | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
state will apply. It will be up to the member states to apply the | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
sanctions but the report suggests what they are. That is something | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
Labour MEPs are taking issue with. We think some sanctions in the | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
report are too strong. There is 1's action which talks about liquidating | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
companies if they do not agree. If they do not implement the demands. | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
We will be voting against that. Marina, you are opposed to it in | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
principle. The figures haven't improved much. The UK's -- the UK | :44:09. | :44:17. | |
stands at ten best out of 20 member states. | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
It is never going to be good enough, we have to keep working at it. We | :44:23. | :44:30. | |
need more women, greater diversity. How we do it is where we differ. I | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
think this report, this directive, will be using, it is dealing with | :44:37. | :44:45. | |
the symptoms and not dealing with the actual problem. That is why we | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
need to look further, looks at pathway, how to get women ready to | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
go into boards, to make sure more women want to go into boards. A | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
survey yesterday by a recruitment agency said that women do want to go | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
on board but only 6% want compulsory quotas. | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
Figures have worked in other countries. Norway has seen an | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
increase from 9% up to 40% in under a decade. You can't reach those | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
figures without quotas. It has indeed. It has seen 40% in | :45:26. | :45:33. | |
nonexecutive positions. It has seen no increase in executive positions. | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
It has seen no increase in other levels of business. The 40% they | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
have, one woman holds 90 posts! I wonder what sort of women they are | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
putting in, with what quotas. She is wrong to say that Norway has not had | :45:51. | :46:00. | |
an increase in executive directors. They have gone up. It has been up by | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
3%. I agree with Marina that we need to make sure women are ready, that | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
they can go on boards, that they want to, that they have the training | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
and experience. But they are not mutually exclusive. Creditors does | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
not mean you don't take those measures. Of course we need to make | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
sure women can do the job. I firmly believe women can become | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
nonexecutive directors. There are enough good women out there. They | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
are just as good as men. That is what we should be doing, encouraging | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
them, not just catapulting them or creating posts. They need to get | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
there on merit. If you just have a quota, a random quote, you are | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
encouraging tokenism, on cue? You are going to have women who aren't | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
experienced enough. I don't believe you will. There are women who are | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
experienced enough. The Commissioner who has been piloting this through | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
the commission has been out to business schools around Europe, and | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
she has one in who are ready to do these jobs. We know the -- she has | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
women who are ready to do these jobs. We know the women are out | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
there. There are, at the moment, enough. Women are just as good at | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
this as men. There is a good business case for having women on | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
boards. Fiona Wolf has made this point often, that diversity on | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
company boards has improved performance. There are good business | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
reasons for doing this. Let's look at the business reaction. Germany | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
has agreed a women's quota. They will be required to have at least | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
30% of women on supervisory boards. Clearly, they don't think it's bad | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
for business. You are right, Germany did just announced that. What I am | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
saying is that it is not up to the EU. It Germany would like to do it, | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
it is up to the member state. They will be having problems, though. I | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
believe they have said they don't know how they will enforce it, and | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
they are saying that if they have these 30% seat and they are not | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
full, they will keep them empty. How good that will be for business, I | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
don't know. The point is, the EU is coming up with a piece of | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
legislation that is one size fits all. Really, we need to let member | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
states decide. Stay with us. What do you think about this idea? Marina's | :48:35. | :48:45. | |
first point is crucial. If the British government or political | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
party was to have that policy, fair enough. I think Mary is also right, | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
many companies are missing out on talent by not promoting women to | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
boards. Are the women there, though, in the first place? If not now, then | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
they will be in five or ten years. This is something that in time will | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
correct itself. Very slowly, though. Maybe, but in FTSE 100 companies, | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
the number of women has shot up. What about that point, but why | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
should the EU force this on member states? Firstly I would like to say | :49:25. | :49:35. | |
that the number has gone up on FTSE 100 boards. It has gone by 9% in two | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
years. It is still slow. That is in the UK where we are making a big | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
effort. There are many countries in the EU who are nowhere near that. | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
This is a legislation to bring everybody up to a similar level. | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
That is the's role in it. If member states are better, some are ahead of | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
the EU, that is good. That is what we would like to see. We want more | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
parity and more equality. That is so that all member states can take | :50:06. | :50:07. | |
advantage of the talent of women out there. Thank you. As we have already | :50:08. | :50:17. | |
discussed today, whether Scotland votes for independence next year or | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
not, war powers will be handed to Edinburgh because of new legislation | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
passed last year and Westminster. -- more powers. Earlier this year, | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
David Cameron announced the world 's semi would get more power over | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
things like stamp duty and income tax. -- the Welsh Assembly. Where | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
does this leave England? Eddie Bone leads the campaign for owning this | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
Parliament. We have also been joined by Barry Sheerman, who backs the | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
idea of regional assemblies across England. Make your case, then. | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
England was left out in 1998 by the Blair government. It didn't register | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
that England was a country. They gave devolution to Wales and | :51:04. | :51:05. | |
Scotland without knowing the full consequences. What we are arguing | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
for is that the people of England deserve a First Minister, fairness, | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
and equality. Presently, not one of the main political parties and even | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
produces a manifesto on English policies. Because devolution is | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
growing, there are clear policy divides in health, the NHS, and | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
within education. We need to see the people of England having a voice, | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
and a First Minister. What is wrong with that, Barry Sheerman? We have a | :51:38. | :51:45. | |
British Parliament that is biased towards England. 53 million people | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
in this country live in England, and only 10 million in the other | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
devolved assemblies. We have power for England in a very interesting | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
way. I'm not a nationalist. I don't mind the fact that we have to talk | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
about English nationalism. I don't want that to become a rallying cry. | :52:08. | :52:16. | |
Isn't it true that England dominates? It makes our campaign | :52:17. | :52:25. | |
easier because it puts it on to the political agenda. We have to make | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
sure the system is fair. Barry is encouraging one-way. It is not an | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
English parliament, it is a UK Parliament. -- Barry is incorrect in | :52:33. | :52:41. | |
one way. Health and education are very separate. We need a First | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
Minister, he has to accept that, and there are clear divisions now | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
between England, Scotland and Wales. There is such a thing as positive | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
national, the same as in Scotland and Wales. If there was a democratic | :52:56. | :53:05. | |
upsurge for this. . . I would support it. All of the polling I | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
have seen as shown indifference about this. People are happy with | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
the status quo. I'd share a group of MPs. -- I chair a group of MPs. All | :53:17. | :53:26. | |
we see in the regions is one strong region, London and the south-east, | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
dominating the conversation. That is wrong. Who would be your First | :53:30. | :53:37. | |
Minister? That is for the people of England to decide. He stuck in this | :53:38. | :53:49. | |
issue of regionalism. There is no support for that. It is nice to see | :53:50. | :54:00. | |
you, Iain Dale. I have only ever met you on Twitter! There is not a great | :54:01. | :54:12. | |
demand for this. Oh, there is. The Parliament use Jess will be | :54:13. | :54:20. | |
dominated by Boris. -- you suggest. It will be dominated by the South, | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
wouldn't it? It would be dominated by England, which is the point Eddie | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
makes. England deserves its own parliament, I have been sympathetic | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
to that idea. Barry is wrong about the polling. But it depends on when | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
they do the polling. If there is a major Scottish issue, we support | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
finding less Parliament rises. It doesn't have to be bureaucratic, it | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
doesn't have to have a separate building. -- the support for an | :54:49. | :54:57. | |
English Parliament rises. This has been going on for years. I remember | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
going to a group of yours in 2003. Nothing has changed since then. You | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
haven't with a figurehead. I do agree. We have an event tomorrow. We | :55:10. | :55:19. | |
are finding that a number of MPs are expressing concern. We are all aware | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
that the status quo cannot exist any more. There is quite a bit of | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
support for this in all parties. I don't know if Barry would agree, but | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
it is below the surface. But there is a difference between caring | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
passionately about England... Yellow Matt Frei I do, thank you. -- I do, | :55:44. | :55:57. | |
thank you. English nationalism doesn't have to be a negative thing. | :55:58. | :56:05. | |
When the England flag was associated with the BNP, that was negative. It | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
is no longer the case. I have seen no traction for another layer... | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
Would it lead to the break-up of the union? We are looking at crisis | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
point. The first is the Scottish referendum. If Scotland votes yes, | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
it would mean the dissolution of the UK. The agreement was with the | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland. England needs to have | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
people negotiating on their behalf. We have just seen John Swinney | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
talking about, would they take the debt. We need people to represent | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
England. That is the Prime Minister's job. How would a | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
relationship between the First Minister and the Prime Minister | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
work? We are looking at clearly defined areas. And politicians | :57:01. | :57:09. | |
always stick to those! We are seeing growth of a Welsh identity on home | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
policies. There are clear differences between a federal system | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
of UK policies, which would be foreign policy, defence, etc, and | :57:19. | :57:28. | |
actual national issues. You would like to see the end of the UK | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
Parliament? You are saying you would like to have four separate | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
governments. The rationale of you are committed to breaking England | :57:39. | :57:48. | |
are completely. -- your rationale, you are committed to breaking | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
England down completely. There is no doubt that an incoming Labour | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
government could look at what the Coalition have created in terms of | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
their local economic partnerships. They could easily be democratised. | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
City regions could be the way forward. Don't underestimate that | :58:13. | :58:21. | |
there is emphasis on democracy but not on English nationalism. We have | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
to finish there. There is just time to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
The question was, how do Ed Miliband's team refer to Ed Balls' | :58:31. | :58:41. | |
team, according to the newspaper? All four could apply. I wouldn't say | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
that. And it's? No, Pirates! That is all today. Thanks to all of my | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
guests. Goodbye. | :58:51. | :58:55. |