Browse content similar to 02/12/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Has the government | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
stolen Labour's thunder over energy? A number of leading energy companies | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
have promised to reduce recent increases to domestic fuel bills | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
after the government announced cuts to the green levies they face. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Ministers say they believe ?50 can be taken off the average annual | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
bill. David Cameron's in Beijing, stepping up our ties with China. But | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
is he marching too much to the Chinese tune? It's only three days | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
till the Autumn statement. What Christmas goodies will George | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
Osborne have up his sleeve? And it's only 521 days till the General | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
Election! Could the end of coalition government get messy? | :01:18. | :01:26. | |
All that in the next hour. With us for the whole programme today is the | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
former Home Office and Foreign Office Minister, Liberal Democrat | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
MP, Jeremy Browne. Welcome to the programme. Good afternoon. Now, | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
first this morning, let's talk about China because that's where the Prime | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
Minister is. Writing in a newspaper ahead of his visit, Mr Cameron had | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
this message. " There is no country in the Western world more open to | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
Chinese investment, more able to meet the demands of Chinese | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
consumers, or more willing to make the case for economic openess in the | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
G8, the G20 and the European Union. ". Pretty clear. And this is what he | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
had to say to the BBC's Nick Robinson earlier today. We have a | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
strong relationship between Britain and China including human rights | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
dialogue. We are one of the few countries to have that relationship | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
with China but very much top of the list only in China is making sure we | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
secure those British jobs at home and British investment to help | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
achieve our economic growth. Is he selling our souls of the Chinese? I | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
agree with every new said. The biggest fact of life in the world | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
today is the rise of China, the rise of Asia more generally, I think it | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
will completely dominate everything that we do in government terms for | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
the next 50 years in this country. I read an article, I think it is in | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
the Guardian, Simon Jenkins, a few weeks ago, one of the worst I have | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
ever read. What it said was David Cameron shouldn't waste of time | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
going to China, he should be concentrating entirely on domestic | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
policy but China is increasingly domestic policy because if we are | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
concerned about the future of our economy, our education system, our | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
deficit, all of these are tied up with the rise of Asia. With all due | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
respect, that wasn't quite the question I asked, because many | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
people apart from Simon Jenkins would agree that that is where the | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
investment comes from. But should we be selling our soul in the sense | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
that many critics say he's giving in he has capitulated on human rights | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
after the to-do over posing with the Dalai llama which seemed to cause a | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
big problem. It's more concentrated than that. I don't think we should | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
be selling our soul, is the short answer, but I do think there was a | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
danger with some of these jamborees that we take loads of business | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
people on a plane and a few government ministers. Cronies? | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
Important business people but we feel we have ticked the box and done | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
it the whole point of the racial job I think with China and other Asian | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
countries is about weaving them into everything we do in terms of how we | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
think about international politics, the future of the economy. But we | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
should at the same time, have the self-respect to stand up for our own | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
values, I don't think anybody in the world should tell the elected Prime | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
Minister this country who he can or cannot meet. I'm not saying we | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
should cave in Folsom we should have confidence in our own values. And we | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
shouldn't see the relationship with countries like China as just a | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
transactional relationship that we do a bit, and then they do a bit | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
back. We have to think much more in the integrated way, the way we would | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
with the French and the Germans and the Americans, about how to interact | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
with Asian countries on a daily basis, not every three years. Human | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
rights isn't going to be raised in a meaningful way on this trip. | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
Universal values have been set aside for the greater good. I think the | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
Prime Minister was right to meet the Dalai Lama. I think... It did result | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
in a problem. I don't think the primaries should be dictated to by | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
foreign governments but we have to see the relationship in the round. | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
And we have to be aware that China is already the second biggest | :05:10. | :05:11. | |
economy in the world and will overtake the Americans. It isn't | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
wise or, in my view, polite to spend the whole time lecturing them and | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
expecting them to listen to us. It doesn't work either. Also, we have | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
to be courteous to the countries we deal with and respectful of them | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
whilst, at the same time course having self-respect for ourselves. | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
It's perfectly possible to have a rounded relationship which puts | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
human rights on the list of concerns but, at the same time, we have an | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
economic and political situation into related. You have dealt with | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
the Chinese for them what are they like? You have a famous picture we | :05:48. | :05:56. | |
have shown. Any opportunity, not just to see you of course, but the | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
pandas. It was amazing. I loved meeting that panda. What did he say | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
about human rights? He loved his carrot, and he's got it all over his | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
belly. You look more pleased than he does. It was a very funny situation | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
to find myself in. What are the Chinese like? They are. . Pretty | :06:18. | :06:27. | |
hot-headed. In flexible. In their thinking for them when they come to | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
negotiating, and discussing the issues with other countries, but I | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
think the trap we fall into sometimes is thinking that the | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
Chinese are not thinking deeply about the future of world affairs. I | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
think they are very interested in what they can learn from us, from | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
other leading countries like the Germans, and we shouldn't be so | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
arrogant as to assume we can't learn anything from them either. Let's | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
leave it there. And the Panda. Now it's time for our daily quiz. Not | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
completely unrelated. The question for today is what culinary delight | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
was David Cameron served on his current trip to China? Was it: A) | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
Roasted duck heads. B) Bamboo fungus. C) Chicken feet. | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
D) Sweet and sour sea horse. They all sound and look delicious, don't | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
they? At the end of the show Jeremy will give us the correct answer. He | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
has and we have them all. The Chancellor is due to deliver his | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
Autumn Statement on Thursday, updating us on the state of the | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
nation's finances and setting out his tax and spending plans for the | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
future. -- he has, we have them all. Speaking to the BBC yesterday, | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
George Osborne said the UK economy was on the right track and denied | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
that his policies were creating a housing bubble. His opposite number, | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
Ed Balls, however, warned against over-confidence in the recovery. | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
Here's a bit of what they both had to say. The economic planners | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
working and recovery is underway. In the Autumn statement, I will say the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
job is not yet done. We have got to make sure we go on taking the | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
difficult decisions to secure that recovery. And we also want a | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
responsible recovery. We want to learn from the mistakes of the past | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
and don't see a re-emergence of some of those problems in the financial | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
system which brought this country to its knees. On housing, specifically, | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
what are the Bank of England and I say is this not a housing bubble at | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
the moment, that we want to make sure one doesn't develop and that's | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
why it wasn't just the Bank of England, at myself and the bank | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
governor working together. One of these schemes, which has been | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
underpinning mortgage lending in financial markets, we are now going | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
to focus on small business lending because they are not only the | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
lifeblood of the economy. I think you see as working together, the | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
Bank of England, the Treasury, to make sure we do not repeat the | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
mistakes of the past and monitor the economy, swap housing booms before | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
they emerge, and let's be clear, as of today, the Bank of England agreed | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
this not a housing boom. It's good that finally we are seeing some | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
growth but from a very low base, for families in our country, it's not a | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
recovery because living standards are falling month by month. If | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
George boasts about a recovery, which may be there for people in the | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
city, but for most people is not there at all, I fear it will make | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
you look even more out of touch. George Osborne and Ed Balls. With us | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
now is the former Labour Chairman of the Treasury Select Committee, John | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
McFall. And the former Defence Secretary, the Conservative MP, Liam | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
Fox. Welcome to both of you. It's going to be a big week. The economy | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
will take centre stage, as it has done over the last few years. | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
Actually, now, it's all looking pretty good. In fact, some | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
economists say the UK is projected to be public the fastest-growing | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
economy in the developed world. It's not surprising that George Osborne | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
says is looking good, but is this the right type of recovery? In his | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
October 2011 budget, he said he did not want a debt fuelled economy. He | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
did not want city bonuses, and he did not want other excesses. Now, if | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
you look at the economy just now, Mark Carney said three quarters of | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
the growth next year will come from increasing consumer spending and | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
debt. So we actually have a debt fuelled recovery and that isn't good | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
for the longer term. We will talk about the type of recovery in a | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
moment. Cynics would save you talked about growth, Ed Balls talked about | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
nothing else but getting growth back into the economy when it's back, and | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
the projections are it's going to increase faster than the forecast | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
said and, from that growth, there will be an economic recovery. What | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
are you complaining about? Actually, the economy fell so much that the | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
normal experience when the economy recovers its growth has increased | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
quite a bit, but what type of growth are we having? It's a joyless | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
growth, unemployment now was still higher than when the government came | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
in and because of his policies, it took off 1.5% of GDP every year so, | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
in many ways, it was three years of waste. We don't know whether it was | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
the Chancellor's policies, it could've been longer if Labour had | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
been in arguably but that's not the issue of the type of recovery. Just | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
before you get to your point of view, it is to to say, actually, it | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
is consumer spending, what people are worried about is a housing | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
bubble, we will return to exactly the sort of conditions that resulted | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
and exacerbated the result of a financial crash. I don't think we | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
necessarily well but we should be guarded about that danger. We should | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
try to make sure that we don't. Just to pick up on John's point for the | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
unemployment levels are lower than when the government came into | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
office. Youth unemployment? The government was rolling almost ?450 | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
million every day. It was completely disastrous and we had to restore | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
some sanity to the government. That was as a result of a financial | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
crash, to be fair. What we're doing now, slowly but surely, is getting | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
the economic situation and the government finances back on their | :12:15. | :12:16. | |
feet but there's a long way to go, so no one must think the job has | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
been done. Are those finances being fixed question mark the deficit is | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
still extremely high. If you take the figures George Osborne used | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
himself in 2010 and 11, he is postponing all the austerity he | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
really couldn't do for them the finances are not fixed, they are | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
better and the deficit is lower, but it still extremely high. I don't | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
want to see the Chancellor and the government as a whole talking about | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
the whole situation as if it has been sorted. We are out of the woods | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
and every thing is fine and dandy. We are growing, but as a | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
prerequisite for sustained recovery in this country and thought at the | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
public finances, but we are still warrant a colossal amount of money | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
and have a lot of hard decisions in front of us. Actually, Liam Fox, you | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
will talk about austerity more in the autumn statement. It's going to | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
go on for years and years and years and, despite this growth, there's | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
nothing for people to look forward to for the there's a lot for people | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
to look forward to, 1 million public sector jobs created. It's nonsense, | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
clearly the public finances are improving. But we still are spending | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
a lot more money than we are aiming at a country. Until we get back into | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
balance, we will have to continue to tighten our belts, continue downward | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
pressure on public expenditure, and on the deficit. How much further | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
would you shrink public spending and the size of the state? It is an | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
arbitrary debate, but if you think of when we were at the early 2000s, | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
it was a reasonably sustained position. Labour increased public | :13:50. | :13:58. | |
spending. Up to 52% of GDP. This government is still running off a | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
lot of money over the parliament. Of course, and I think it still | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
borrowing a lot. We are still ring too much money. We would like to | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
sing deficit come down faster. -- borrowing too much money. But we are | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
making progress. We're talking about the elimination of the deficit in | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
this country within five years, which is infinitely better than the | :14:22. | :14:23. | |
performances in, double countries in Europe. And there would have to be | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
tax rises as one of spending cuts. There. As the economy grows, what do | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
you do with the extra money? Put it into deficit reduction, some of it | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
into increased spending? I would like to see us continuing downward | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
pressure on the deficit, the most important thing. And then tax cuts | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
because ultimately, interest rates are going to rise, and if we want to | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
protect people from an increase in mortgage rates, we have to see the | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
tax pressure come down. Can we afford tax cuts in the foreseeable | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
future at any stage? Well, we can, but my greatest majority -- priority | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
would be reducing the deficit. If you look at marriage tax cuts and | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
meals for schoolchildren, that is a dealer the two coalition parties are | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
done. ?1.5 billion. Is that really affordable at a time when austerity | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
is going to rain, the finances aren't fixed, and the Lib Dems are | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
throwing out these little gambits to the public before the finance | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
meetings? I think both parties of government are doing that and have | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
to look at how they continue to bear down on the deficit. Some targeted | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
tax cuts are possible. We have cut income tax for people on low and | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
middle incomes by raising the threshold to ?10,000, and that is an | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
important tax cut that benefits 25 million people in work, but what the | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
Government cannot do is, as I say, let it head down, is the end money | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
as if we are out of the woods. Let's talk about the cost of living | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
crisis, Liam Fox, and I will come to you in response to this, John | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
McFall, but the Tories have been playing catch-up, they have had to | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
move onto Labour territory, who have dominated the agenda on the cost of | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
living crisis. I, Ed Miliband's speech at the Labour Party | :16:23. | :16:24. | |
conference got considerable political momentum. -- I think. The | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
question is, what do you do when you find people are finding it difficult | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
to make ends meet because, for various reasons, prices have risen | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
faster than wages in recent years? My answer would be to not take so | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
much money out of earnings in the first place. Government should not | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
be taking so much of people's income. Government needs to control | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
spending so it is not pushing hard working people into more hardship by | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
taxing them. In terms of the cost of living, they are doing, to some | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
extent, the Tories, responding in what they would claim is a more | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
effective way than Labour's suggestion. In general, they are and | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
string what has been raised by Ed Miliband. To adapt Mrs Thatcher's | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
phrase, you turn if you want to. I am first in the queue for U-turn | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
every time on payday loans, energy, so this government are not leading, | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
they are following. We need leadership year flood is, and what | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
we will get is another bout of PR from George Osborne. -- we need | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
leadership here. Debt and deficit reduction at two completely separate | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
things. Courtesy of Fraser Nelson, he says that in the 13 years of | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
Labour government, it added ?319 billion, any five years of this | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
Government it will add ?465 billion, so let's get real when we talk about | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
debt and deficit reduction. John is that the government have added a | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
colossal amount of money to the overall national debt, but the | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
reason for that is we inherited such a massive deficit. I do not member | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
Labour saying they wanted to cut the deficit faster than that. Come on, | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
it is not... You are saying Labour as saying they would borrow more. | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
Yeah, they want to borrow more. Labour gave you growth in 2010. You | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
do not know if that would have continued. Is it true that Labour | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
would spend more, use any savings from the deficit to spend? Alistair | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
Darling said at the Labour target in 2010, and George Osborne and company | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
said, look, we are going to square the debt by 2015, and they have not | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
got anywhere near it. He would have halved the deficit by 2015. There is | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
not a single hard-headed decision that has been made in the House of | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
Commons in the last three years to get more efficient, low spending | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
that Labour has not opposed. But give them credit for one thing, Ed | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
Miliband has set the pace with his speech and his idea on energy | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
prices. The difficulty the Government has, when Ed Miliband | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
comes up with an idea like that, even an economic league illiterate | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
idea, is that the Government seems to be unsure about whether to | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
ridicule it or match it. The worst is to do both, and the Government | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
has got to, if you like, get a sense of its direction and priorities, and | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
not be driven to respond to every bad idea of Ed Miliband's, because | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
that is the danger Gordon Brown got into, and every time George Osborne | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
as Shadow Chancellor came up with an idea, Gordon Brown seemed to think | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
his main priority was to cancel it out. That will be politics for you! | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
You can be too tactical if you are not careful. One of the things | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
people will be worried about is that good news in a broader sense, Labour | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
want to focus on cost of living, Government want to focus on the | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
bigger economic picture, but what if the economy is overstimulated, the | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
pressure to put up interest rates will be overwhelming, wanted? | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
Interest rates will rise. Not before the next election. It looks like it | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
is a bit off here and in the United States, but they are historically | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
low, way below normal, and the question is, when they do start to | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
rise, what can the Government best do to minimise that and protect | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
people? First of all, it is getting control of borrowing, making the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
pressure for rising interest rates less, but making sure that the tax | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
burden is falling so that people are not being hit twice. What do you | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
think about the married couple's tax break and free school meals? It is a | :20:44. | :20:51. | |
good idea, but I would have postponed it until later. I think we | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
need to make sure the deficit is tackled. Something we have not | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
mentioned, the deficit means we have debt interest to repay, and next | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
year that debt interest is bigger than the education budget. That is | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
not acceptable, spending more money servicing debt than on education. | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
George Osborne said he would avoid that. We are bringing it down, | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
Labour would put it back up. Our interest is ?1 billion per week, | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
just interest alone. I am glad I do not have to paid! You do, that is | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
the point! John McFall, the problem for Labour is that the people do not | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
trust you, whatever you say or do in terms of finger wagging, they do not | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
trust you to run the economy. Well, that is the challenge for labour, | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
and Labour lost the argument at the beginning of 2010 when we allowed a | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
false statement to be made that the UK was like Greece and elsewhere, | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
and the issue now in terms of interest rates, Lee made the point, | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
globally we have a savings glut. There are not enough investments to | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
match the savings that are there, and this is an opportunity for the | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
Chancellor to make sure we have an investment strategy, because | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
business investment is lower this year than it was last year. What | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
would you like to see? One thing. I want to see the deficit pressure | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
continued outwards. I agree with that. I will add to it that I also | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
think we should do more and continue to do more people on low and middle | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
incomes. We have got used to coalition government in this country | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
now, the deals, the squabbles and the patching things up, but time | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
flies when you are having fun, and it will all be over in two years or | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
less, which has got people thinking about what the end will be like. To | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
find out if parting really will be such sweet sorrow, Adam has been | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
looking at some countries where coalition make-ups and break-ups are | :22:49. | :22:57. | |
part of everyday life. # Time to say goodbye... | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
This beautiful friendship will come to an end in just 521 days' time, | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
when the next general election is held and the coalition will be | :23:10. | :23:10. | |
unwound. Some of Whitehall's finest minds are | :23:11. | :23:21. | |
wondering what that will be like here at a think tank, the Institute | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
of the and, along with some international commentators, who have | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
seen plenty of endings, happy and unhappy. -- the Institute for | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
government. First of all, Germany, which has had 18 coalitions since | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
1949. For the time being, the most important lesson is for the junior | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
partner, because in the last election, the Liberals, not the Lib | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
Dems in Germany, the Liberals, they paid a very high price for being in | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
the coalition, because they did not stick to their philosophies, and | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
their voters said, you sold everything that you promised to us | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
just to stay in power. They took a terrible defeat in the September | :24:06. | :24:07. | |
elections. Philosophies, and their voters said, you sold everything | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
that you promised to us just to stay in power. They took a terrible | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
defeat in the September elections. In Ireland, several coalitions have | :24:13. | :24:14. | |
collapsed, and the lesson from there is all about party discipline. In | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
Ireland, several coalitions have collapsed, and the lesson from there | :24:18. | :24:18. | |
is all about party discipline. Backbenchers backbenchers they get | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
very worried they get very worried about their seats, individually and | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
collectively. You need to instil confidence in the backbenchers that | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
the best thing to do is stay in government, deliver on the programme | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
for government, that is hugely important. Although we are unlikely | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
to follow Sweden, where four parties and their coalitions are thinking | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
about the next one. We have managed to create pre-election pacts, a | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
common manifesto, four parties creating a common manifesto before | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
the elections, and we won into 2006 and were re-elected in 2010. | :25:01. | :25:08. | |
So no matter what language your coalition is in, the message seems | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
to be, weirdly, the most important thing about breaking up is sticking | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
together or as long as possible. We are joined now for the rest of | :25:17. | :25:32. | |
the programme by energy Mr Michael Fallon and, from the Institute of | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Government, by Peter Riddle. Is there a theme to coalitions ending, | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
or nothing at all? Oh, there are themes, and that film which you | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
showed, based on the meeting we had last week, they all say, if you | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
break of a coalition early, if you are the junior partner, you get | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
punished, invariably. Both sides? More likely the junior partner, the | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
one who was breaking up. But there is a common pattern as an election | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
approaches, politicians will revert to electoral type. You need a system | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
which is flexible enough to accommodate them working together on | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
the immediate problems of government, but also recognising | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
they are competing as parties, not standing as a coalition but | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
competing as parties for their plans beyond. It is a mixture of | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
recognising the party system, but also having a system which allows | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
them to govern together on immediate problems, and in a sense they are | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
advocating breaking the coalition up. Wrong, anyone who does that will | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
get punished, that is the invariable message. You are not wanted was | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
advocating coalition, but do you agree that in Germany the Liberals, | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
they were wiped out, weren't they, because people thought they had sold | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
out to the bigger partner? Well, there may be a number of reasons why | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
they were wiped out, and we have to be mindful of that. I agree with | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
what Peter said, and the one thing I take exception to a bit was the | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
introduction about the squabbling and bickering in the coalition. Has | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
that not happened? It has, but to no greater degree than as happened in | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
single party governments. If you remember Gordon Brown and Cabinet | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
ministers resigning and calling on him to go, if you think about how | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
Margaret Thatcher was deposed, John Major, all parties, as they get near | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
a general election, whether in government on their own or with | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
another party, inevitably they look more to the future, but we are paid | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
to govern on a day-to-day basis in the interests of the country, and | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
that is what we need to get on with. But tribal loyalty will win out. The | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
coalition will not be on the ballot paper, and it is right the Liberal | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
Democrats and the Conservatives put forward their ideas for 2015-20, but | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
that does not stop us getting on with trying to run the country | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
sensibly in 2014. But will you sacrifice seats for, as you would | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
put it, the coalition? I hope not, we will have to have a vote and find | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
out! My hope is that people will believe that it is perfectly | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
possible to have an enlightened, generous spirited Liberal party that | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
believes in us having sane economic management, and that the combination | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
can be attracted to another people for us to do well at general | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
election, we will find out. Do recognise that description, Michael | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
Fallon? On a personal level, I think coalition works extremely well, | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
dealing with the deficit, sticking to one economic policy, and that is | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
why we have a lower interest rates, and I do not think there is | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
squabbling and Pickering. What about backbenchers? Perhaps, you see that | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
occasionally, but even with our own, just as much as the Liberal | :28:52. | :28:53. | |
Democrats with theirs. In the heart of government, I have very cordial | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
relations with Vince Cable and with Ed Davey, both Liberal Democrats. We | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
get on very well. What will happen between now and the election, as you | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
are defending seats yourselves and putting forward a manifesto that | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
will look, I presume, very different to Jeremy and his colleagues? The | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
evidence from Peter, and he will speak for himself, is that we will | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
have to keep focusing on big things, we will have to keep going and | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
deficit reduction, making sure the economic recovery is sustainable and | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
well-balanced, pushing on with our reforms to education and welfare, | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
but I suspect, as we get nearer to the election, both parties will be | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
looking to the future, and you are going to get more positioning and a | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
clear indication of what a straightforward majority | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
Conservative government would do. We all get the impression everybody is | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
looking now to try and position themselves in terms of the Lib Dems | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
and the Conservatives, but not much will get done. What gets done it | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
tends to be new things. A lot of legislation in this parliament is | :30:00. | :30:01. | |
now being implemented. Health, universal credit, a lot of the new | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
legislation, always the final year of Parliament is when there isn't | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
much bigger legislation. Things will happen but there won't be massive | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
new initiatives. The focus will shift. The interesting point Michael | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
made if it's in both the Tories and the Lib Dem interest to contain the | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
argument. Don't squabble too much over the current, and therefore get | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
the tone right and the balance between that and the electorate. You | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
don't care if they lose its combo Lib Dems? We will be fighting them | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
in the election. Why do you care about keeping it sweet and unified | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
until then? You have got more to gain and they have got everything to | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
lose. We all have a common interest. They didn't vote overall | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
for a winner last time. We came together in the national interest at | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
a difficult stage of the European economy, and we have stuck to that, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
and we do have to focus on what has to be done in the next year and a | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
half, as well as lookahead. What about another coalition with the | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
Tories? It's not a game. We have to make sure we have in place an | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
economy where people can have a realistic prospect of finding jobs, | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
not losing their House. But you have also got to win your seat. You have | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
got to hope, if you do the right thing, and make wise decisions... | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
But some of your colleagues may not see that. Another coalition with the | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
Tories. You have obviously enjoyed it? It was bought for the Lib Dems | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
to being coalition again after the next general election. That it is | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
possible. I think it either Conservatives or Labour were to get | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
more than half the seats, neither of them would have an appetite for a | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
coalition with the Lib Dems, although, if the Conservatives were | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
to win with a majority of four, or Labour, with a tiny majority, people | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
will look back fondly at this period of stable government compared to | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
being fitted on a daily basis by government with a small majority. | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
You have to be careful what you wish for. There's a lot to be said for | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
stable coalition. You have obviously enjoyed the coalition and maybe | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
would preferred... Some bits more than others! You have been a victim | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
of coalition shenanigans. There was a lot of surprise when you didn't | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
keep your job. I don't know if I'm a victim of shenanigans. They felt | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
they had to shuffle the deck. I'm a victim of more senior people in | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
government being able to decide who serves in government and who | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
doesn't. But I am completely committed to this government. I | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
think it is, by far and away, the best prospect Britain has full | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
dealing with its long-term problems and I think we're a good fist of it. | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
What is interesting about the coalition, as well as dealing with | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
the deficit and recovery, we have done some pretty radical things. We | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
are making big changes in welfare, in schools, | :33:09. | :33:45. | |
are making big changes in welfare, are making big changes in welfare, | :33:46. | :33:45. | |
in schools, that, honestly, you are better with | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
a majority government which is more you can get on and do the things you | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
want to do. We would you can get on and do the things you | :33:51. | :34:11. | |
human rights, for example, getting rid | :34:12. | :34:11. | |
human rights, for example, getting back fondly on Nick Clegg. I don't | :34:12. | :34:11. | |
human rights, for example, getting agree with that. I believe don't | :34:12. | :34:21. | |
Herbert says you sent letters to yourself and answer | :34:22. | :34:29. | |
Herbert says you sent letters to part of this which cut across, how | :34:30. | :34:29. | |
you deal with industries affected part of this which cut across, how | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
example, which is why the Prime Minister asked we to | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
example, which is why the Prime next time, the key thing is the | :34:42. | :34:41. | |
politicians and the next time, the key thing is the | :34:42. | :35:00. | |
different. We could have a minority-owned. Who knows? | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
different. We could have a prepared for any kind of outcome. It | :35:05. | :35:04. | |
would be great prepared for any kind of outcome. It | :35:05. | :35:16. | |
what's happening this week. As we've heard, | :35:17. | :35:16. | |
what's happening this week. As we've diplomatic to-do after meeting the | :35:17. | :35:16. | |
Dalai Lama play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
be claiming play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
for attention by play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :35:31. | :35:39. | |
Clegg will be in the ring with play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :35:40. | :36:10. | |
it. And finally, Friday sees play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
David Cameron has sold his soul for play. On Tuesday, Ed Miliband will | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
statesman and a in China. As Ms leaders will be | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
statesman and a in China. As Ms and the fact of the matter is, there | :36:31. | :36:30. | |
are some and the fact of the matter is, there | :36:31. | :36:44. | |
Washing human rights to one side. Promoting Britain as the | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
with. Other people say it's sour grapes from the French and the | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
with. Other people say it's sour it's worth it? Some people say he is | :37:00. | :36:59. | |
selling Britain's sold it's worth it? Some people say he is | :37:00. | :37:23. | |
father-in-law and people like that. It's proving a distraction for him. | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
On the other hand, out of the millions of businesses in the UK, | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
not many have people related to the Prime Minister, so is having to fend | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
off those criticisms. Maybe it's distracting from the message about | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
helping British business overall. The allegations of cronyism have | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
been in the papers. Whether or not that the tracks from the trip, this | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
would also say some things that Western governments can't tell a | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
Chinese what to do because they will freeze the right and you won't get | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
what you want? Boris Johnson said it well on his recent China, when he | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
said you can't go into meetings and say, how is this freedom stuff | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
going, chaps? Western leaders know they will be put in the deep freeze. | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
They are reluctant to tread into sensitive water. China needs | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
European countries almost as much as we need them. They need our | :38:18. | :38:26. | |
services. Their economy is heavy in manufacturing to services and the UK | :38:27. | :38:28. | |
provides good accountancy, legal services. They need us. Foreign | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
leaders have a duty to raise human rights issues when they are there. | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
The Autumn statement, the UK economy motoring ahead. It's more | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
austerities, isn't it? That is the message George Osborne yesterday was | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
trying to deliver and he will stress that again on Thursday that things | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
are turning the corner. He has got a delicate balance to adopt here will | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
stop he is trying to say the economy is doing better but also he hasn't | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
got much room for manoeuvre. We are expecting growth figures to be | :39:05. | :39:06. | |
upgraded by the biggest increase for three years. So that's great. | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
Hurray. We are expecting some giveaways. Perhaps on petrol duty, | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
perhaps a cat. Help for small businesses in the high Street -- | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
cut. Some Tories, Liam Fox MP, are pushing hard for tax cuts, permanent | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
austerity, George Osborne yesterday said to have lie ahead. But of | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
course, they have another 18 months to go before the general election, | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
so he'll want to save up some sweeteners for later on. It's a | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
difficult balancing act, I think. The worry now, which we have been | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
discussing if that there are fears of a housing bubble and actually, | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
this growth is not sustainable, particularly if it's based on a | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
housing bubble and another credit room. That's one of George | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
Osborne's concerns, the recovery will look a bit like the kind of | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
recoveries with hard in the past based on inflated housing prices, | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
consumer credit and the rest of it. That's what he's trying to pull | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
together the visit of the Prime Minister to China to show it will be | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
a broader-based recovery, the exporter manufacturing going, to | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
make sure we're not just dependent on a housing bubble. OK, both of | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
you, thank you very much. Ever since Ed Miliband announced at his party | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
conference that a Labour Government would implement a price freeze on | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
energy bills, the Coalition has looked a little as though it's been | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
running to keep up. Better news on the economy has apparently not led | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
to better poll ratings, with the political debate focused on what | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
Labour call a cost of living crisis. Over the last week we've been | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
hearing clues about what the Government plans to do to keep bills | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
down, and this morning we got the full details. Policies announced | :40:55. | :41:02. | |
today will enable companies to reduce bills by an average of about | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
?50. The energy company obligation or ECO scheme, which pays for home | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
insulation, will be implemented more slowly. That should lead to a saving | :41:09. | :41:18. | |
of ?30 to ?35 for customers. The Warm Home Discount, which provides a | :41:19. | :41:20. | |
rebate for vulnerable households, will from now on be funded from | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
general taxation, rather than added to bills. Meaning a further saving | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
of ?12. And the electricity distribution network companies have | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
agreed to cut their charges for a further one-off saving of ?5. It | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
looks as though the Lib Dems have won some concessions to make sure | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
the changes don't lead to higher carbon emissions. People who buy a | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
new home could get up to ?1,000 from the Government to spend on | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
energy-saving measures. And ?90 million of public money will be | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
spent over three years to improve the energy efficiency of schools and | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
hospitals. This morning the major energy companies have confirmed that | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
they will pass on the savings to customers although most people's | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
bills will still rise overall. Labour is launching its own Green | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
Paper on energy today to consult on how their policy of freezing bills | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
could be implemented. Ed Miliband says the changes to energy levies | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
announced today are just smoke and mirrors. And Labour's Julie Elliott, | :42:17. | :42:23. | |
who is a shadow energy minister, joins us now. Welcome to the | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
programme. Michael Fallon, just to recap, today's announcement will | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
mean those go up by less than they otherwise would but they are still | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
going to rise overall, aren't they? It depends what happens to wholesale | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
gas prices. Labour said you could freeze prices without explaining how | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
you can free costs. No government can freeze international costs of | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
gas or indeed of oil. We can deal with our own taxes, the levy is put | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
on top of the bill, and we are to be not immediately. The government has | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
already announced today that don't pass this through, so the bills now | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
will be around ?50 lower than they would otherwise have been. Right, | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
they have shot your fox, haven't they? Not at all, all they're doing | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
is passing some costs of fuel bills onto general taxation and, to save | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
energy prices are coming down, a British Gas customer who today's | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
prices would have gone up by ?130, their bills are still ?80 more than | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
they would have been lasted, so they haven't solved the problem, the | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
energy market, between the companies, it's simply not working. | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
These measures do nothing to address that. How do you control wholesale | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
gas and oil prices? You can't. You can make it transparent. The freeze | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
is a mechanism while we sort out the market in this country. You can't | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
control the price of gas from the Middle East on the price of gas from | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
Russia Makkah Orange and it has the importing. But you can make the | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
market in Britain work, which it isn't at the moment. Because we | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
inherited the big six companies from you. There were originally 14. By | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
the time you finish in government, there's only six. We are going to | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
annual competition. More competition. Making switching more | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
easy, but in poorer households onto the cheapest possible tariffs, | :44:26. | :44:27. | |
introducing... You are putting everyone on the same tariff, aren't | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
you? There will be fewer of them. The most honourable people will get | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
onto the lowest tariff, so we are tackling the problems of | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
competition. Which we have inherited. We are also providing | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
immediate help now full we don't have to wait for some mythical | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
freeze in three year's time. It's not mythical. It has helped | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
straightaway. You have welcomed the government taking action. They are | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
doing something, and you have got to welcome anything that can be done | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
but with three pathways that years into the government, energy prices | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
have gone up hugely in the last three years and they have only acted | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
when we have taken a decisive policy decision to do something in the | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
general election. What are you going to do, you win the election, the | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
frieze art enacted, the companies put prices up beforehand, wait until | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
the freeze is over and do the same again? Well, if they collude, Ofgem | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
have the power to act on that, and they should, because... What is to | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
stop them putting up prices when the freeze ends? You cannot control | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
energy prices, which is why what you have been saying about our energy | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
frieze is misleading. We are planning to freeze them for 20 | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
months while we make the market work properly, while we make it open and | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
transparent so that if companies own production and sale in the retail | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
market, the cost to sell to each other is open, transparent and | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
clear, so people know they are not paying above and beyond the odds, | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
which at the moment they do not know. Is that not the way to go, | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
breaking up the six companies? What you are doing is a short-term | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
response to the fact that, politically, this has dominated the | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
agenda, but isn't Labour right to say you have got to do something to | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
reform the market properly? Responding to the increase is a | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
short-term response to the fact that, politically, this has | :46:28. | :46:28. | |
dominated the agenda, but isn't Labour right to say you have got to | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
do something to reform the market properly? Responding to the | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
increases of like fuel duty, council tax. The new competition review will | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
do that, it will look at the cost and the structure of these | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
companies, and it will see whether or not there is cross subsidy | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
between the two things, the generation and retail supply. We | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
will look very hard at that, and we will know the answer by the spring. | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
The Warm Home Discount will be paid for out of general taxation, you are | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
going to be accused of robbing Peter to pay Paul. It is going to be much | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
better focused. Too many of these levies are regressive, which means | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
that the benefit goes to middle-class or wealthier households | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
and is paid for by ordinary rate taxpayers. What we are going to do | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
is target the levy is far better, so that the Energy Company Obligation, | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
ECO, the biggest of them, gets to the house all to need it most, that | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
is extremely important. Are they regressive, the Greek levy did not | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
do what they were supposed to? I think Ed Miliband's initial proposal | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
is completely economic leak illiterate, but I think that the | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
Government's response has been in glorious, and I don't want the | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
Government to lose its nerve. It promised to be the greenest | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
government in history, and I think there is a danger of thinking that, | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
if we give people a discount of less than ?1 per week, they will be | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
tremendously grateful and the argument will have gone. Go. The | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
Government should focus on cost of living, the fact that we have lifted | :48:00. | :48:08. | |
people out of tax. -- gone full circle. If you earn ?15,000 per | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
year, this Government as cut your tax bill by ?700 per year, and that | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
is dealing with the cost of living, not 50p here or there as a response | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
to Ed Miliband's tactical manoeuvres. You are not going to be | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
the greenest government ever, George Osborne made it clear that Britain | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
cannot afford it, David Cameron has called it green crap, it has gone. | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
We are the greenest government ever, we have more offshore wind than any | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
country on earth, we are inundated with applications for onshore | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
turbines, solar energy, 15% of our electricity comes from renewables | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
and we said at the green investment bank. We are pursuing the green | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
agenda, but it has to be affordable, cost-effective. We are | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
not abandoning our green commitments, but we are making sure | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
the burden does not fall unfairly on some households and certainly does | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
not fall unfairly on our businesses compare to others in Europe. I agree | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
it needs to be cost-effective and we need rational policy-making. What I | :49:09. | :49:17. | |
said, if you earn ?16,000 per year, by April of next year this | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
government will have cut your tax bill by ?700, a real cost of living | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
bonus. I think the Government is in danger of losing the focus on its | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
real achievements, what is doing to help people on low and middle | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
incomes by being true and by Ed Miliband's economic leak illiterate | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
ideas and energy prices. If the Government is drawn into that, it | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
will lose the argument. The savings come from changes which are mostly | :49:42. | :49:53. | |
social programmes. So we are all still paying big subsidies for low | :49:54. | :50:04. | |
carbon energy. Because there was no plan to replace the coal-fired and | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
oil fired stations, we have to invest in all sorts of new power | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
stations and that includes renewables. That has to be paid for, | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
and the reforms we are announcing today do not undermine the | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
renewables obligation of the new contracts for difference, we are | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
still going to get investment made which we should have had years ago. | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
If you are struggling to pay your bill, do you care whether or not | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
some of it is going to pay for new green renewable energy? You just | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
want lower bills, don't you? I think it is not fair to say that people do | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
not want a greener energy mix. Do they care? What's this has actually | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
done, extending ECO for another two years is the same amount of money, | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
it could mean that in some terms it is a cut to make homes | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
energy-efficient because you are spreading the money over twice the | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
period of time. Also, what really needs to happen with ECO, we would | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
have got rid of it, because it needs to be targeted at people who cannot | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
afford to pay their bills. At the moment, 60% of people who get ECO | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
can afford to do the changes themselves. It is not targeted at | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
poor people. It is going to be better targeted, there are going to | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
be more households in deprived areas that will be eligible for it. It is | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
being spread over two years rather than four, that is good, some | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
companies have not been able to discharge their obligations under it | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
in the first two years, so it will be spread further out. It will be | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
better targeted at the most vulnerable, and I'm sorry to hear | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
that Labour would scrap it, I did not realise that. It is a good | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
thing, insulating homes? I want the Government to be environmentally | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
ambitious, it could have a better record on reducing demand for | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
energy, new-build houses with solar panelling, all of those types of | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
areas. The point I am making on the big political tussle is that, yes, | :52:07. | :52:15. | |
Labour left this garment with an economic catastrophe, and Labour | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
have seized the initiative with their economically illiterate | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
policies, the Government has been badly wrong-footed, given we have | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
created over 1 million private sector jobs... I have to give you a | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
chance to respond to that. This Government is sending all the wrong | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
signals to business, so investment in renewables has fallen through the | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
floor, a direct result of the actions of this government. I will | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
leave it there, thank you very much. You will all remember scenes like | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
these from not so long ago. The British Government has so far given | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
?50 million in emergency aid to the Philippines after the devastation | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
wrought by Typhoon Haiyan. But it seems that our counterparts have not | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
been as generous, let's have a quick look at this clip now. | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
What they need now is more water, but today it rained and rained and | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
rained. In most places, when the rain comes down, people go inside. | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
Here, foremost, is no inside. And so they huddle under whatever cover | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
they can find, although some seem blissfully unaware of the misery all | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
around them. Of course, those were tragic | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
pictures that we saw over a period of days and weeks, the consequences | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
of that dreadful incident, and there has been plenty of talk about the | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
money that has been sent. Talking about emergency aid to the | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
Philippines, it seems that our counterparts have not been as | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
generous, and the Sun report it has raised more money than the French | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
government and that the furniture chain IKEA has donated more money | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
than China and Russia. With me to discuss this is Emily Ashton from | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
the Sun, I use a prized by that, Jeremy Browne? Not at all. -- are | :54:13. | :54:24. | |
you surprised. British people are extremely generous, and in Taunton | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
two Rotary clubs were raising money, and it was not just loose change, it | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
was ?10 notes. There is also a slightly bigger point to go around | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
to David Cameron's trip again, which is that although China has | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
potentials of world leadership, when it comes to the crunch, even in | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
Asia, in the Philippines, it is the West End countries like Britain and | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
the Americans that are stepping up to the plate and helping the | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
Filipinos, whether it is the government or the British people. We | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
are still playing a major role in the world, and countries like China | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
have an onus on them to start thinking in global terms beyond | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
their own borders in terms of how they can help people in desperate | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
circumstances. Emily, you must be feeling good. Absolutely, we | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
launched this last month, and hopefully people have seen it. We | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
launched the campaign last month, when we saw the devastation, and | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
there was an amazing response, ?550,000 has been raised by the | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
campaign, it will can text in ?1, and that is what thousands and | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
thousands of people have done. You can also donate online, and we are | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
asking bosses to donate ?1 for everyone of their employees. That | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
has raised about ?550,000, more than the French government! Which seems | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
to amazing, is there something particular about the British psyche | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
that makes as generous? I think we are a bighearted nation, a generous | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
nation, and the UK Government have donated ?50 million, the most out of | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
any government. Is that something you are proud of? We are proud of | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
our record on overseas aid, this is not a political point. The public | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
has been generous, the government has signed up to the 0.7% target, | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
and we are one of the leading nations not just in the amount of | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
aid, but in the quality of aid we give and the speed of our response. | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
Given that ?33 million was raised by the British public, does it raise | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
questions about how we manage foreign aid? Should it continue to | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
be ringfenced? I think it is important to ring fence it as we | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
head towards the target, and I do not think it is right to take out on | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
the poorest areas of the world, whether Africa or these disaster | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
areas like the Philippines, our own domestic economic problems. They are | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
not their concern. But we talk about countries like India. And we are | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
stepping down the aid to India, that is happening already, so we can | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
better focus on the poorest areas of the world, which is still Africa. Do | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
you think the British public, generous though they have been, do | :56:58. | :56:59. | |
they really sign up to this ringfencing of foreign aid as a | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
percentage of GDP? I think people make the distinction between areas | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
of real crisis, where people simply do not have the basics of water and | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
food to survive, that is a very different thing to some of the other | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
things. I agree with Michael that we should stick to this evil .7%, it is | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
something we should be very proud of. -- this 0.7%. What about being | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
the nasty country over immigration? I strongly disagree with that! We | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
are an extremely generous hearted country, and every time we have one | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
of these major international disasters, this appeal, people | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
collecting money in the street, the British public give very generously, | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
but we are doing it for the right reasons, because we see these people | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
on television, and we feel extremely sympathetic for them. But I make the | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
wider political point, do not think the Government and the main people | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
in the Philippines will not notice. They will notice and they will | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
appreciate that when it came to the crunch, countries like China held | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
back and Britain stepped forward. In terms of our status in the world, | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
people say that Britain does not matter any more. I think it is not | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
just what the government does, it is that people right around the world | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
can see that the British people are international in their outlook and | :58:17. | :58:18. | |
extremely charitable and sympathetic. Thank you very much, | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
Emily. The answer to the quiz, I hope you remember this, what | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
culinary delight was David Cameron served in China? Roasted decades, | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
bamboo fungus, chicken feed or sweet-and-sour sea horse? They all | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
sounds delicious! Have you eaten all of them? The only thing I do not | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
really like is rice pudding, so I would... Not for breakfast may be! | :58:43. | :58:49. | |
Which one to Mac may be the fungus. That was a guest! From all of us, | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
bye-bye. | :58:57. | :58:58. |