Browse content similar to 21/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The Lib Dem crisis | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
over Lord Rennard continues, with the former party chief exec | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
considering going to court to lift his suspension from the Liberal | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Democrats. Former party leader Paddy Ashdown joins me live. | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
The Conservatives and Labour square off over changes to welfare, with | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
proposals for new benefit cuts and incentives. We will hear from both | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
sides. David Blunkett has a plan to | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
reconnect politicians with the public, and it doesn't involve going | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
to the jungle or diving in a swimsuit on reality TV. He will join | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
me live. Plus, should the rich fork out more | :01:11. | :01:19. | |
to fund the arts? All that in the next hour. And with | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
us for the whole programme today is Peter Bazalgette, the chairman of | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
England's Arts Council and a TV bigwig responsible for programmes | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
like Big Brother and Deal Or No Deal. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
Let's start with the news that this afternoon, the International | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
Monetary Fund is expected to announce that it's increasing its | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
growth forecasts for the UK by a significant amount. So the UK | :01:41. | :01:49. | |
economy is supposed to be motoring ahead. Can you feel it? I think we | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
all feel something happening. One of the newspapers this morning had a | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
survey which said that we, the public, think it is business that is | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
delivering the growth, not the politicians. We, the voters, think | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
business is delivering the growth more. Quite often, politicians say, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
we have created X number of jobs since we came to power. Of course, | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
they don't create the jobs, it is businesses that create the jobs. But | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
they do create the conditions for success. And do you think that has | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
happened over the last few years, that businesses, as a result of | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
conditions set by the government, have created jobs? Well, | :02:36. | :02:44. | |
productivity is the problem. Employment has been positive in that | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
we have not lost nearly as many jobs as we expected. But investment has | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
not been so good, particularly from large companies. Investment in | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
everything, including the arts, but we will come to that. Do you think | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
this supposed feel-good factor is limited to the south-east? No, but | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
it is stronger in the south-east. A lot of the country is still | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
suffering. If you live in London... I travel around the country all the | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
time, and it is very tough in parts of the country, in contrast to | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
London, which is booming by comparison. How much do people care | :03:22. | :03:29. | |
about growth figures if their wages have fallen behind prices for almost | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
a decade? People are worse off, and there is no question that everybody | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
is living at a lower level than they were five years ago. So people care | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
very much, because they can afford to spend less on their holidays and | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
home improvements and things that matter. That might change, but it | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
will take time. It will take time for people to feel better. We will | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
be told it a lot earlier than we will feel it. | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
So the Rennard crisis rumbles on for Nick Clegg's Lib Dems. Yesterday, | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
Lord Rennard was suspended from the party on the grounds that his | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
failure to apologise to four women who claim he made sexual advances to | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
them was bringing the party into disrepute. That was followed by a | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
lengthy statement from the former party chief executive, and the | :04:18. | :04:19. | |
threat that he might take legal action to regain his place in the | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
party. I'm joined to discuss this by Linda Jack, a party member who is | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
also chair of the Liberal Left group. She is in Luton. How do you | :04:28. | :04:41. | |
feel about your party today? Can you hear me? Let me try again. How do | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
you feel about your party today? I feel very sad, because we have been | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
deflected from more important issues. For example, yesterday, the | :04:56. | :05:03. | |
launch of the closing the gap mental health policy, which reflects | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
everything we stand for as Liberal Democrats. And instead, we are | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
focusing on something which, although I fiercely think it is | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
important, is not the whole story about who we are as a party. But | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
when we are talking about the claims that have been made against Chris | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
Rennard, some in the party have said it has all been overblown, taste | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
warm in a teacup -- a storm in a teacup. One MP likened it to | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Italians pinching women's bottoms, remarks he has since apologised for. | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
How serious are these alleged offences? They are very serious. I | :05:36. | :05:45. | |
was at the same event as one of the women after it occurred, and she was | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
extremely distressed, and rightly so. What Chris Davies said, even | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
though he has apologised, betrays an ass dude in some parts of the | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
party, not the whole of the party -- it betrays an attitude that this is | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
a trivial matter. I worry that Lord Rennard also sees it as a trivial | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
matter, urges why he does not think it is worth apologising for. You | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
were confided in by one of the women, as you have just said, and | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
there is this argument going on that what happened was actually | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
relatively minor in the minds of some people. Was it more serious | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
than just touching of the leg through clothing, as one described | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
it? Any potential abuse of power is serious. It is also about the | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
impact. Somebody may not have intended that impact, but the impact | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
is what matters. I cannot say how somebody else will react to being | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
treated like that, or how I would react. But some people are making a | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
judgement that it was just a little bit of touching, as if that did not | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
matter. That betrays attitudes I would not expect in a party | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
committed to equality like ours. Have you been surprised that those | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
attitudes exist more broadly than you thought? I am not surprised that | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
they exist. I am surprised at how broadly they exist. I am surprised | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
at some of the responses I have had where people did not agree with me | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
in terms of not understanding that this is not just about some clumsy | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
advances, it is about a potential abuse of power. There is going to be | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
another party enquiry, as you know, about whether Lord Rennard has | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
brought the party into disrepute. If that clears him, he can come back | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
within 14 weeks. What do you think of that? This should have been dealt | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
with ages ago. The party has brought itself into disrepute by having | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
processes which were not appropriate for the case and were not robust. I | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
hope that gets sorted out. We need some sort of conciliation at the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
moment, if possible. It would have been nice if Nick Clegg had spoken | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
to Lord Rennard after last Wednesday and tried to come to some sort of | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
agreement, because this story is now much bigger than him and his | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
accusers. It is affecting the whole party. And knowing Lord Rennard, I | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
imagine this is a party he has devoted his life to. He does not | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
want to damage it. So if anyone can come up with an idea to smooth | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
everything over, that would be better for all concerned, rather | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
than it becoming a vendetta, which it feels like at the moment. Is the | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
party divided into two camps now? That may be the case in the Lords. | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
Within the wider party, it is not 50-50, but there are those arguing | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
on behalf of Lord Rennard who don't know what the fuss is about, and | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
those who see this as a fundamental issue to do with who we are and what | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
we stand for. Chris Rennard has expressed regret in the statement he | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
made. Even if he goes further, which he has said he will not do, and says | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
Warwick, that will not satisfy at least one of the women who made the | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
claims -- if he says sorry. This is the dilemma we have. We may say we | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
are satisfied if there is an apology, but at the -- at the end of | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
the day, it is down to those women. It is about the process. I have been | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
involved in a lot of internal disciplinary procedures as a union | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
official. This should have gone to a hearing, and then both sides would | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
have been able to confront and cross examine each other. That is what the | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
failing has been. And we have been joined by the | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
former Lib Dem leader Paddy Ashdown. Welcome to the Daily Politics. You | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
heard Linda Jackson Nick Clegg should have sat down with Chris | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
Rennard and they should have talked about this and stop it getting to | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
the stage. I know Linda and we have often fallen out, but I agree with | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
almost every word she said, except that. Nick could not do that. He is | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
a leader of the party. There were enquiry is going on. He would have | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
been open to criticism if he had intervened in a personal way. Many | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
of us have spoken to him on several occasions. He is a close friend, and | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
he knows I think he is wrong on this. But Linda's point is the | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
central point here. What Nick Clegg has done is stood on a fundamental | :10:28. | :10:38. | |
visible at the heart of liberalism. It is about respect for individuals | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
and respect forward. He has taken flak for that, but he is right. I | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
suspect every party in Westminster suffers from this. Most of them are | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
saying, there for the grace of God. But this is the Liberal Democrats. | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
Nick Clegg has stood up for a mental principle and he is right to do so. | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
Insofar as offence has been given, it would have been easy to find the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
words for an apology, and the absence of that is something we | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
should continue to demand. And other Lib Dem Lords are defying the Clegg. | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
-- Nick Clegg. They are defying the leadership, who are saying an | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
apology is the least that needs to come? I can only give you my view. | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
You are fiercely going to make up the division to be the biggest story | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
you can. But I don't think it is as bloodthirsty as you suggest. Here is | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
the central point. The democracy of our party is something we are very | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
proud of. Yes, it makes it difficult to handle some issues. People fall | :11:44. | :11:54. | |
out. It is not our finest moment. But when it comes to running the | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
country, that very democracy has meant that the party has been united | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
in a way that the Tories are not. Because of that democracy, the party | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
has walked into the coalition. So you can criticise us about our | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
internal structures, but when it comes to the big issues, standing | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
together and taking tough decisions to put the country right, our party | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
is united because of the democracy it has. But Linda Jack said the | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
party has brought itself into disrepute. If this investigation | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
clears Chris Rennard, he could be back within 14 weeks without making | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
the apology that Nick Clegg has demanded. And you will have this all | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
over again. I don't think that is correct. I am not going to predict | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
what happens. The Webster enquiry said two thing is. There was | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
credible evidence. Not sufficient for a criminal prosecution, and | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
maybe that should be changed, and an apology is appropriate. All of those | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
things must be followed through. You can't pick and choose. It stands | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
together. The central issue is, is Nick Clegg right to have stood on a | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
principle that Linda articulated brilliantly well, which is that | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
women now in power demand something different in terms of respect than | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
what was acceptable previously? He is dead right. On that basis, should | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
the women who have accused Chris Rennard of harassing them take civil | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
action, and should the party encourage them to do so? I think | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
this talk of civil action is foolish. I don't think it will | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
advance us towards where we want to get. Maybe with everybody in their | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
trenches, they will want to do that. I don't git will serve the party. | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
There is a way around this and we know what it is. The Webster | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
omission report is the answer, and it needs to be followed through. It | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
is simple to find the words to make this apology. There are people | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
advising Chris who do this every day for large sums of money. Not that | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
there is money involved here. It goes like this. "I assert my | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
innocence. I do not believe I did this. But if inadvertently, I hurt | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
others, I regret that." Ming Campbell said something similar | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
along those lines. And he did say something like that. At Chris | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
Rennard is considering legal action now. What is your message to him if | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
he seeks an injunction to halt this enquiry? My message to all in the | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
party is, you have done brilliantly in this coalition. You have helped | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
this country out of a terrible mess. You have shown courage and unity. | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
This is an internal matter. Give it a bit of time, let tempers cool, and | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
let's come back to the central principle, the one Nick Clegg has | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
defended with great courage. In the Liberal Democrats today, there are | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
different standards. We demand respect for individuals and above | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
all, respect for women. Test macro, as an observer, what do you take | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
from this? -- Peter Bazalgette. There does not seem to be much | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
reconciliation in the Lib Dem party at the moment and not a great deal | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
of truth. But we are asserting a new standard of behaviour and respect | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
between the sexes. As we are applying this new standards perhaps | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
to behaviour in the past. I take issue with this and other serious | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
court cases going on at the moment. They are all about saying, we used | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
to do this, it is not how we do it now. It is an issue of principle. | :15:50. | :15:59. | |
The issue is there has been a change of culture. The old standards are no | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
longer in existence. People have to come to terms with that. So you | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
would like to see him permanently suspended on that basis? I am | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
prepared to let the processes we now have in chain take their natural | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
course. But at the heart of democracy lies respect for | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
individuals and if we have stood up for that then I am proud of that. I | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
will bet you anything you like every other political party in Westminster | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
is saying today, there but for the grace of God. I am sure that they | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
are and they will lie low and give you the full spotlight. Is this | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
turning into an old liberals versus the rest argument? I think it is | :16:47. | :16:56. | |
much more a generational thing. It used to be tolerated but no longer. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
I think it is far more generally -- generational issue. And we should be | :17:05. | :17:14. | |
leading the way on issues like this. If we helped to change the climate | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
in Westminster in favour of respect for women then it may be difficult | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
but I am proud of that. Now it's time for our daily quiz. | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
The question for today is who is this being hit over the head with a | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
placard yesterday? At the end of the programme Peter | :17:32. | :17:47. | |
will give us the right answer. I am working on it! It is not easy | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
unless you know the story. Now the eagle-eyed among you will | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
notice that there's been a spate of welfare announcements from both the | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
government and the Labour party in the last few weeks. It's hard to | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
keep up. But don't worry, it's time for our welfare round-up. Two weeks | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
ago George Osborne outlined his spending plans for the first two | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
years of the next Parliament in which the welfare budget - excluding | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
pensions - is set for an extra ?12 billion of cuts. | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
The Chancellor suggested two possible changes to save money. A | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
cut to Housing Benefit for under 25s and restricting access to council | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
housing for those earning more than ?65,000 a year. That's if the | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
Conservatives win the election in 2015. Meanwhile Labour's Rachel | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
Reeves yesterday announced plans to increase the rate of job seekers | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
allowance for those who lose their jobs after at least five years in | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
employment. They'll get an extra ?20 a week for their first six weeks out | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
of work. But the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary's plan will have | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
to be approved by Ed Balls, who says that any changes must be | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
cost-neutral. So who's winning the welfare battle? Joining me now is | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
Conservative MP Mary Macleod and Shadow Employment Minister Stephen | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
Timms. Should those who pay into the benefits system get more out of it | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
when they fall on tough times? We think that the contributory | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
principle is right. It has been weakened under successive | :19:31. | :19:32. | |
governments and we think it is time to reverse that trend. You say it is | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
a trend because experienced workers are to get an extra ?20 per week in | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
payments. That is hardly an return to the contributory principle. It is | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
a move back in that direction. It will take time. But at the moment | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
people feel they pay into the system and when they need help is the help | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
there. Would you like to see it go further? Well one thing the | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
government has done that we argued against was that people losing their | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
jobs on health grounds lose their contributory allocation now. We | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
think we would like to increase that period. So I think it is an | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
important first step and most people agree that if you have paid into the | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
system for a significant period then you ought to be able to get more | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
help than available at the moment. Ed Balls says it has to be cost | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
neutral. What was suggested yesterday, at the moment you get | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
contributory jobseeker's allowance after two years of contributions. We | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
would look to extend that period. I think with Rachel Reeves on the | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
front of the pages, it is still the same old Labour. I would like to see | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
Ed Balls coming out and saying it is cost neutral, we do not think it is. | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
You voted against savings on welfare. That is not true. But just | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
to get to the point, we have a long-term economic plan in place and | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
that is about bearing down on the deficit and making sure mortgages | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
stay low. Part of that is putting a cap on housing. Why allow young | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
people under 25 to leave home and take housing benefit? That cannot be | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
fair or right. I would like to think your supporters would come forward | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
with ideas for the next election to say people under 25 should just | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
think about staying at home. Do you support that? I would like to see | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
the detail of what is being proposed. We have agreed with the | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
principle of universal credit which unfortunately is in a mess at the | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
moment. We agreed with the principle of the benefits cap. Some changes | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
did need to be made. But we should have a system where if you pay in, | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
you can be confident of support. And you do not think that there should | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
be a system for when people fall on hard times, when they have | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
contributed, that they should not be demonised as some people have | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
criticised ministers for, for claiming an effort. I do not think | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
we criminalise people. Ian Duncan Smith has done a fantastic job of | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
helping people out of the welfare trap. We are talking about people | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
who have worked with them fall on hard times. I understand that. You | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
have to live within your means. Part of that is that we take difficult | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
decisions and focus the money on those women -- on those in most | :22:53. | :23:02. | |
need. We believe in the principle of capping benefits but not the cap | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
that the Conservatives used. Labour cannot keep saying we support you in | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
these things and then vote against it in Parliament. And actually this | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
is just about electioneering, posturing? The Labour Party feels it | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
is seen as being soft on welfare and now seems to want to make itself | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
tough. Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher than the | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
Conservatives on slashing the benefits bill. How will it do that? | :23:31. | :23:37. | |
Well we want to assess people who become unemployed right at the start | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
to see which people have got a sick skills needs and then provide them | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
with basic skills training to address those needs. If they do not | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
take up that training we will have benefit sanctions. It is not just | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
about posturing. We are putting forward a programme which will be | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
developed over the coming months and will be ready for the general | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
election, where all the different parts of what we will propose will | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
come together. We spoke yesterday about education, a programme to take | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
it in forward and get us out of the mess we are in at the minute. This | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
is a battle over who is going to look toughest or fairest, which ever | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
way you look at it, on welfare. The guys have done their research. They | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
know people in work have had tough time and the public questions | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
whether the benefits system is too generous. But I would make a | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
different point, which is that we have all this pressure and talk of | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
the benefits bill. We're not talking about one of the largest elements, | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
the cost of the old age pensions. That is because old people are more | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
likely to vote and so there sacrosanct. When you do that you | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
make the pressure on the rest of the benefits bill very tough. That point | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
would be right if we had not in the last three years taken some tough | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
decisions. Not on pensions. Increasing the number of years that | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
you have to work. That is a big change in culture. Of course the | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
universal benefits will stay, rightly or wrongly. We have said I | :25:25. | :25:35. | |
think it was above inflation, the triple lock. It is being protected. | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
I have nothing against that policy but we must look at benefits in the | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
round. I fear we are putting too much pressure on one area of | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
benefit. We can take a look at the rest of the benefits bill if | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
pensions are put aside. George was born says he wants to cut the bill | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
further by ?12 million beyond 2015. Where would you find those cuts? | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
What he signalled is what he needs to do. He has talked about the under | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
25 is which Labour will not support. I hope they will changed their mind. | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
That is part of it. Looking at housing benefit for people earning | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
?65,000. Where is the rest going to come from? I will not sit here and | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
speculate, I'm not the Chancellor. What I would say is that we have | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
indicated you need to find more savings in the welfare budget. I | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
hope Labour will support us if they are serious about this. I suspect | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
they are not. It is the same old Labour with more taxation. In terms | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
of other things that Labour has been shouting about, like the minimum | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
wage, George Osborne has still underfunded. It is a welcome change | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
of heart. I hope that he sees it through. The key to bringing down | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
the Social Security Bill is to get people back in work. ?15 billion | :27:12. | :27:20. | |
more has been spent on social security because so many people are | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
out of work. So many people who want to work full-time can only find | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
part-time work. That is what we have two address. But the unemployment | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
picture is not as bad as you predict. It is now looking up. We | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
were told after the election that there would be steady growth but it | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
took three years of no growth. Finally there is some growth and the | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
opportunity must be taken to get people back into work. Where would | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
you set the national minimum wage? We would take advice from the low | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
pay commission. Would you like it to be beyond ?7 an hour. I'm happy to | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
wait for advice on that. But we would encourage employers to pay the | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
living wage and there are ways to encourage them to go further. How | :28:11. | :28:19. | |
would businesses feel about that? It would make life more affordable for | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
people working in London. It might cause problems for some businesses | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
employing some of the lower paid workers. But personally, it is not a | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
political point, it is good to hear both parties backing a living wage. | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
I am pleased to hear everyone backing this principle. The | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
important thing is incremental increases to the minimum wage do not | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
hurt businesses, small or large. All the research I have seen indicates | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
that there is not that damage if it is incremental. | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
How we pay for the arts in this country has always been contentious. | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
And never more so than in these austere times, where every penny of | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
public money counts. The government would like to see arts organisations | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
moving closer to the American model, where philanthropy rather than the | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
state funds the lion's share. In 2012, more than $14 billion were | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
donated in the US. In Britain, it was just under ?700 million. But are | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
the two systems comparable? And could what happens in the States | :29:28. | :29:41. | |
work here? David Thompson reports. The take written, one of the great | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
national galleries and free to all comers. Most people agree that the | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
arts are good thing. We are proud of our galleries. We love it when a | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
Brit wins an Oscar. It only gets tricky when it comes to funding it. | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
This government has been urging arts organisations to do more to raise | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
their own revenue. But how much the public prepared to stump up? People | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
to not give that much to the art. Their favourite causes are medical | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
research, international development. The arts has never been a popular | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
fund-raising calls except for major donors who always gave a lot of | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
money to the arts. He here is one of those donors. His home is testament | :30:34. | :30:45. | |
to his wealth. There is nowhere near the same magnitude of fundraising | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
that you find in the United States. In this country, it is moving in | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
that direction, but it is not there yet. Therefore, the government has | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
to give organisations in this country and a four effort of trying | :31:02. | :31:09. | |
to move the needle -- they have to give an A4 effort. But we have a | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
longer to go before we can compare apples with apples between New York | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
and London. But even if ministers can make London more like New York, | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
what about the rest of the country? The government has put a lot of | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
building blocks in place to encourage donors to make | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
contributions to our arts facilities. I suspect it may do more | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
in time. What it hasn't done is thought through how to encourage | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
more giving to the small, regional arts organisation. For donors like | :31:39. | :31:46. | |
John, sustaining Britain's cultural heritage is too important to be left | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
to short-term financial necessity or longer term ideology. This is a | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
serious part of this country's culture. If you are going to change | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
the funding base, you should develop a long-term plan and do it. The | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
reality a 20 or 30 year plan with these institutions to try to say, | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
let's look at this over two decades. In that time, we would like these | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
institutions to be financially independent. Private patronage of | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
the arts is hardly new. The challenge now is to harness the | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
values of the Medicis 28 when she first century renaissance in how we | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
pay for our current -- 21st century renaissance in how we pay for our | :32:34. | :32:34. | |
culture. Why is philanthropy so much bigger | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
in America than here? Actually, Britain is quite a charitable | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
nation. Although not as much money gets given to charity in Britain as | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
America, if you look at the international league table, we are | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
high up there. But to the arts? You have put your finger on it. Less | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
money goes to the arts than probably should do. Probably 1% of charitable | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
giving goes to the arts. We did some research that told us that only 9% | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
of the population knew that arts and cultural organisations were | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
charities. That is a marketing issue for the arts sector. But there are | :33:14. | :33:21. | |
things we can do. The interview who said -- the interviewer who said it | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
was a problem outside London is right. 80% of the philanthropic | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
money raised for organisations goes to London. The Arts Council can only | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
do its bit, but we are doing some things. We are doing a scheme where | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
we have given money to be matched by private donors, which will help | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
raise more than 100 million. We are putting money into training a new | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
generation of fundraisers and improving the fundraising | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
departments. But we need to do more. But why is it more successful in | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
terms of giving to the arts in America than here? Well, as I say, | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
arts and culture here has not presented itself as a charitable | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
object. And it does over there. Also, there are tax breaks. For | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
instance, did you know that if you leave more than 10% of your estate | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
to a charity, you get a 4% reduction in your inheritance tax? No. I do | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
now. Very few people know about it. I have discovered that the Treasury | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
gives us tax breaks, but they never publicise them. Of course. But as | :34:35. | :34:43. | |
you said, we know Britain is a charitable nation. We know that | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
interims of disaster appeals. But we give more to donkey sanctuaries than | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
we do to the opera. Does that upset you? I think people should give | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
their money to whatever cause they want to. If we are going to compare | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
donkey sanctuaries to opera, that is difficult all stop quite a poser for | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
this time of day. But we do need to raise more money for the arts, and | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
we can get a bigger slice of the charitable cake for the arts if the | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
arts present it in the right way. It is difficult outside London, but we | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
are going to have a go. Is it taboo to celebrate people's generosity | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
here? That is another thing. We should do that. We are good at | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
getting arts organisations to put arts Council funded or Heritage | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
Lottery Fund did. Maybe we should write, do John Studzinski funded. | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
So we have discussed who should pay for funding the arts, but what about | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
how that money gets distributed? We have been joined from Birmingham by | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
Dorothy Wilson, chief executive of the Mac Arts Centre. How do you feel | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
about the imbalance? Is it something that has been there since time | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
immemorial? Has it improved over the last few years? It is a big picture, | :36:03. | :36:11. | |
of course. The arts Council has been channelling the department of | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
culture support and local authority support, together with donations | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
from individuals, corporate organisations and foundations. That | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
makes up the whole picture in terms of investment out of London. Each of | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
those are challenged. I agree with Peter that there are signs of some | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
improvement in terms of philanthropic giving that is coming | :36:37. | :36:44. | |
outside London. But it is slow. The point was made by one of your | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
earlier speakers that this has to be a 20 year plan. I agree with that. | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
But how big is the discrepancy between, say, London and York, or | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
Birmingham, in terms of the money they get for their theatres and art | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
galleries? It varies enormously. A recent report illustrated that the | :37:05. | :37:13. | |
amount of government money going into the arts is very much dominated | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
by London. It is therefore easy to say that that should be rebalanced. | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
Everyone would agree that there should be some rebalancing, but | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
London is our capital, and it is also an international centre for the | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
arts. So we would expect that to be carrying the lion 's share. Let's | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
look at the figures. You are aware of the imbalances, Peter, but but | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
you are also presiding over it. Arts Council 2013's spend was ?163 | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
million. ?20 per head went to serve the capital, versus ?3 60 outside | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
London. That is a big discrepancy. Dorothy makes a good point. She and | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
I have discussed this in the past during my visits to Birmingham. | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
There is a historical imbalance between London and outside London. | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
The main reason for that is not to do with the arts Council, it is to | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
do with the fact that the government directly funds the National | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
museums, things like the Tate, the British Museum and the National | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
Gallery. 80% of that money goes to London, because that is where most | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
of the national institutions are. By comparison, the arts Council has | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
always been the champion of arts outside London. It has two sources | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
of finance. One of those is lottery money, and the other is money from | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
the taxpayer. 60% of that money goes outside London. It used to be less | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
than that. So the trend is towards outside London. I hope Dorothy and I | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
would agree that we need to keep that trend going, because investment | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
outside London, where the money is really needed, like the fact that a | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
quarter of ?1 million has gone into Birmingham in the last few years, | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
there is a national is usual in the West Midlands, the royal Shakespeare | :39:04. | :39:05. | |
company in Stratford. We have to keep the trend going. Dorothy, what | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
about complaints about community projects, things that are | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
experimental? Those struggled to get funding. How do you boost those? I | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
agree with a lot of what Peter was saying. But we must also remember | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
that whilst most of the major institutions are still based in | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
London and the South, we need to be careful not to focus production only | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
in the capital. What is really important is that we need to be | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
nurturing centres of production and engagement throughout the country. | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
It is tough. I see small green shoots in my own experience, which | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
indicate that some, particularly the London based foundations, are | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
starting to look outside London. That has to be encouraged. | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
Now, do you remember this? If you can't be asked to vote, why should | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
we be asked to listen to your political point of view? You don't | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
have to listen to my point of view but it is not that I am not voting | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
out of apathy. I am not voting out of absolute indifference and | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
weariness and exhaustion from the lies, treachery and deceit of the | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
political class that has been going on for generations and which has now | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
reached fever pitch where we have a disenfranchised, disillusioned, | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
despondent underclass that are not being represented by the political | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
system. So voting for it is tacit complicity with that system. | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
That was the comedian Russell Brand, talking to Jeremy Paxman on | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
Newsnight last autumn. His attack on politics and the political process | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
got some headlines, and prompted politicians to scratch their heads | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
and wonder why the public hate them so much. One senior backbencher has | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
been thinking about this a lot. He joins us now. David lunk it, | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
welcome. -- David Blunkett. Why do you think young people are so | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
disengaged with mainstream politics? There are lots of reasons. Partly, | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
we don't talk the language. We are not as honest as we should be about | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
where power really lies and what influence we have and where we don't | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
have it. But actually, there is a corrosive influence taking place, | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
and Russell Brand is part of that, to pretend that this is something to | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
do with what he described as the political class. Whereas, of course, | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
politics is to do with all of us. It is not a spectator sport. It is | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
about people getting engaged with their own lives and participating, | :41:44. | :41:50. | |
and also voting. This evening, in a speech I am making, I will make the | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
point that the people who need politics the most are the least | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
likely to engage. That has always been the irony. Do you think | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
celebrity culture has damaged politics? I am fully in favour of | :42:02. | :42:09. | |
satire. I am totally against sneering. I am in favour of being | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
sceptical. That is part of a healthy democracy, but not cynical. Too | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
often, we just get straight abuse. They are not very funny either. But | :42:20. | :42:27. | |
they are also helping to disengaged other people. And the people who are | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
in the know, who actually do have a voice and can get on Question Time | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
or get a radio programme on the BBC, they know where the power lies. | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
They have a voice and some influence. To encourage other people | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
to disengage and to do away with their little bit of influence in the | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
world is a disgrace. Let's put that to Peter Bazalgette. You know | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
something about celebrity TV. It is damaging politics and stopping the | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
people who need it from getting it. That is pretty ten pensioners. -- | :42:59. | :43:06. | |
tendentious. A few years ago, I cooperated with the Hansard Society | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
to do research into fans of TV shows and their attitude to politics. Why | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
do young people not vote? It is a good question we will be talking | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
about this evening. Young people are after authenticity and decency. One | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
thing I hope you will address this evening, David, is the tenor of the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
debate between politicians, because it is depressing. If I may say so, | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
in the media, they constantly disagree with each other and people | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
get very tired of that. It seems very inauthentic. We need a more | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
authentic political discourse to engage young voters. David, the | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
anti-politics you dislike so much is proving to be popular for that | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
reason. Well, we are caught. If we are not entertaining, we get | :43:52. | :44:01. | |
ignored. I grant you that. With Prime Minister's Questions, this | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
must be a matter of age. I find Prime Minister's Questions a | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
complete turn-off. I sit there, thinking, who is this reaching? | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
There are plenty of our viewers who like that argy-bargy. So we can't | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
win on that. We have to address where people are at. One of the | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
great thing is nine years ago was something called make poverty | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
history, a major campaign across the developed world. Here in Britain, at | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
the beginning of July 2005, we had over 2 million mainly young people | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
involved, 1.5 million on the streets of Edinburgh, peacefully walking and | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
influencing the G8 summit which took place at Gleneagles that week. | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
Sadly, at the time of the London bombings as well. And they did make | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
a difference. That campaign changed the minds of world leaders in terms | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
of debt relief in Africa and to a degree, on climate change. But there | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
are events where politics has been damaged by politicians themselves. I | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
can quote you Lord Faulkner . In 2012 on the 10th anniversary of the | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
Iraq dossier, he admitted that the war had had a hugely damaging effect | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
on politics and political discourse. Do you accept that things like that | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
have eroded trust and belief in politics? I do accept it has a major | :45:20. | :45:29. | |
influence. We need a sensible dialogue. We need to disagree when | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
we disagree instead of for the sake of it. We have to get across that | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
sometimes in a do not receive you do not get your way. I was the first to | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
say in 2010 that you have to lose elections as well as the women in at | :45:46. | :45:57. | |
democracy. -- as well as when them. I do think that kind of honesty will | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
bring people back. The tragedy from the Hansard report is that many | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
young people say they are determined to vote in 2014. And they have been | :46:08. | :46:15. | |
hit most by austerity. They are in danger of being disenfranchised. | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
Earlier in the programme we said old-age pensioners have been made | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
sacrosanct part of the benefits budget because they vote. Young | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
people are in danger of being disenfranchised. Voter turnout is | :46:31. | :46:42. | |
down. If young people get out and vote they can actually get power | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
back. What about the lack of political ideology, as many people | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
see it. Having a powerful narrative is some past leading politicians | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
had, because that has gone away, that in itself has meant that people | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
are less interested? Well we have 24 hour news streaming, that has made a | :47:05. | :47:17. | |
difference. But we have to engage with people in different ways. On | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
the bigger issue, I think... Occupy, that did engage people. It | :47:25. | :47:35. | |
caught their attention for a moment. And actually mobilise people as | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
consumers. They have had an impact in terms of social media when they | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
have said we do not like what you're doing. I think Ed Miliband touched | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
on this at the weekend, there is more work to do on that. But could | :47:49. | :47:56. | |
we get citizens advice involved in mobilising consumers and giving them | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
a voice? That is an area to explore. Now, have the Conservative Party got | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
a problem retaining their female MPs? Yesterday Jessica Lee became | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
the latest Tory MP to say she was standing down at the next election, | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
citing personal reasons. In the last few months Laura Sandys and Lorraine | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
Fulbrook have also said they are leaving Westminster. The party | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
increased its number of female MPs from 17 to 49 at the last election. | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
But could that situation get worse rather than better in 2015? We've | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
been joined by Andrew Gimson from the Conservative Home website. Why | :48:33. | :48:40. | |
are so many Tory women finding life at Westminster itself on appealing? | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
A great many Tory men find life at Westminster on appealing as well! I | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
think three things are tough for women. One is the continued feeling | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
that the series decisions are taken pretty much entirely by men. This is | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
true also of the Labour Party. And you may be arise with some | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
particular knowledge of some field of policy which are burning to put | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
into effect and no one pays you the slightest attention. Then the hours | :49:15. | :49:21. | |
are so long. It is difficult. Most women who have got to Cabinet level | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
under David Cameron do not have children. Also if you have elderly | :49:27. | :49:34. | |
relatives. And also the vulgar abuse you get from a certain type of | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
horrible boorish man on social media. Has that not always been the | :49:40. | :49:51. | |
choice? The pressures of public office versus the pleasures of the | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
more private one and the strain on family life. That is true. Margaret | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
Thatcher worked phenomenally hard and did not spend all that much time | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
with her twins. The first job she was given was a highly technical job | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
to do with pensions. None of the men thought it was of the slightest | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
importance. It was a horrible job and for a long time she was | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
excluded. But she came through. If David Cameron concerned about this? | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
I think he is. As Leader of the Opposition one of the most | :50:30. | :50:31. | |
conspicuous things he was doing was to get more women as candidates in | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
sexy and he succeeded pretty well. -- in safe seats. There is now a | :50:39. | :50:45. | |
danger that the numbers could actually fall back. The House of | :50:46. | :50:52. | |
Commons authorities and various leading backbenchers have said they | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
have done a lot to change life of Parliament. Is it still as | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
incompatible with family life as it used to be? It is still difficult. | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
The idea that you can pop home and give your child a bath and read to | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
them in the evening is for most MPs entirely impractical. You're pulled | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
in both directions. You are expected to do fantastic amounts of work in | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
the constituency and also a great deal at Westminster. To have time | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
left for family whether you are a man or a woman is very difficult. | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
The more cynical view, after Louise Mensch step down -- stepped down and | :51:34. | :51:41. | |
Nadine Dorries suggested that she had left because she thought she | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
would lose the seat? She left actually because she married the | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
love of her life who lives in New York. When Lorraine Fulbrook, she | :51:52. | :52:00. | |
gave up in September, she did not cut and run like Louise Mensch. She | :52:01. | :52:09. | |
said she had given 12 years of her life to her constituency and that | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
that was enough. Unless you're extraordinarily strong minded it | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
consumes every moment of every day if you're not careful. | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
Does it matter if your local pub shuts its doors for good? This | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
afternoon MPs will debate the issue of pub closures and what can be done | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
to keep them open. One option available to local communities is to | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
make use of a new set of community rights, which came into force over a | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
year ago. We asked the Communities minister Stephen Williams to explain | :52:40. | :53:00. | |
how they work. Here's his soapbox. I have supported Oxford United for | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
more than a decade. It is an important part of my life. You | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
cannot underestimate how popular this club is. The football club is | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
really important to Oxford and Oxfordshire. This is the stadium, | :53:19. | :53:28. | |
home to Oxford United. Back in May last year they succeeded in getting | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
the stadium listed as an asset of community value. Now if the owner | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
ever wants to sell the stadium the club will have six months to put in | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
their own bid in order to buy it, so preserving it for future use. It was | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
the first in the country to get this status and now joins 13 other | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
stadiums. Football clubs are often at the centre of communities, | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
bringing people of all backgrounds together. So we felt it was | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
important for supporters to be able to protect their club. Just down the | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
road we are in great Milton. This is the last remaining pub in the | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
village but sadly the brewery put it up for sale. Through the community | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
shares policy around 300 people came together to form a great Milton | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
community Pub Co. They took it into community ownership last year and | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
raised almost ?280,000 in shares. After our first meeting we had | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
promises of over ?200,000 within a week. That enabled us to buy it and | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
to refurbish it upstairs. It had been neglect did for some years. | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
People volunteered their skills and expertise. We had teams of | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
gardeners. All completely voluntary. It is not just pubs and football | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
clubs. Tame was one of the first places in the country to vote on a | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
neighbourhood plan. Residents planned and drafted where they | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
wanted new homes and a school to be built. They prevented new houses | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
being built as one mass development outside town and instead spread the | :55:14. | :55:22. | |
houses across and around the town. People are at the heart of their | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
community. Without them there is no market, no local pub. Now the | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
government has given people a real chance to shape their own community. | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
They can list assets of community value and develop their own town | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
plan. People are now in charge of shaping how their community will | :55:41. | :55:46. | |
look. That is surely a good thing. And Stephen Williams joins me now. | :55:47. | :55:53. | |
Looked like a lovely pub! How many of these projects have actually | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
caught -- got off the ground? There are hundreds of project | :56:00. | 0:49:05 |