29/01/2014 Daily Politics


29/01/2014

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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Britain is to take

:00:36.:00:40.

in several hundred of the most vulnerable Syrian refugees, but with

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more than two million having fled the country is it any more than a

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token gesture? Some Conservative MPs don't think the Government's

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Immigration Bill is tough enough. Can a deal be done to avoid a defeat

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in the Commons tomorrow? Labour has got its 50p tax rate, the Lib Dems

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favour a mansion tax. Is hitting the rich an election-winning formula? It

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is all smiles as the Governor of the Bank of England meets Alex Salmond.

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But will the First Minister still be smiling when he's heard the

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Governor's speech this afternoon, addressing the independence issue?

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All that in the next 90 minutes of the very finest public service

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broadcasting. And with us for the duration today Shadow Public Health

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Minister Luciana Berger and Conservative Party Chairman Grant

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Shapps. Welcome to both of you. Any truth in the rumours that Lynton

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Crosby is not very impressed with you and you'll be replaced by Esther

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McVey before the general election? No truth whatsoever. We get on

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really well. He said, just remind us, when did we ever have a cross

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word? So, you will be party chairman. That is not up to me but

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no plans. As usual, we are bringing new Prime Minister 's questions at

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noon. Now, we're expecting a statement from the Home Secretary,

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Theresa May, immediately after Prime Minister's Questions. She'll have

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details of that decision to allow Syrian refugees in. And we'll bring

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you that later in the programme. First this morning though the Prime

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Minister was holding talks with his backbenchers last night to resolve

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an impending revolt over the Government's Immigration Bill

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tomorrow. As many as 100 many conservative MPs do not think the

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bill is tough enough and are threatening to amend the bill. The

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Conservative MP Dominic Raab has tabled his own amendment and joins

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me now from Central Lobby. What do you want to see changed? It is a

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very practical unfocused amendment. I want to deal with the hundreds of

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cases each year, where claiming spurious rights to family life and

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other social ties, we have serious criminals flouting and scuppering

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deportation orders. If we do that, we could strengthen a decent bill

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and show the public we are dealing with a problem we have been

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grappling with for several years. The bill does make it easier for

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foreign criminals to be deported. As you say, you'd think the bill is

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reasonable. If you carry on along this line, it could scupper the

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whole thing. It will take five minutes to have a debate on this,

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preferably more. It is one amendment, voting for it or against

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it. I would not vote against it because my amendment did not pass.

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As for the existing clauses, they are a step in the right direction.

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They are a balancing act for the judges. They will almost certainly

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be dumbed down. Let's not just talk about the problem, let's deal with

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it precisely. Mine is a modest, focused amendment and I hope it is

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acceptable. Have you had discussions with ministers? Is their sympathy

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for you strengthening of the amendment? I am not going to brief

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on air my ongoing discussions because it is not a professional

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thing to do. Over the last three years, I have had a range of

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consultations. Ministers have been great, including the Home Secretary

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and officials. My complaint is not lack of consultation. There are a

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number of objections and I have tried to deal with them. I think we

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have seen some of the objections fall away. It has been well covered

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in the press today the concerns that Strasbourg may have issued an

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amendment against this. I am trying to get this practical and value

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adding measured through to strengthen what is a decent bill to

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deal with this problem. The public wants us to tackle issues and not

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just talk about them. It sounds in your professional way that a

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compromise is on the cards. You sound confident and optimistic that

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there will be some give here. There is many a slip between a cup and a

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lip. There is cross-party support and it is the most popular

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amendment. Senior Labour people back it as well. I am not going to sort

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of bob and weave. That is the deal on the table. It is an amendment and

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it is relatively short. I have catered for all the concerns and

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thought through the legalities and concerns. Remind me of that Billy

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the kid phrase? There is many a slip between the cup and the lip. Dominic

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Raab writes in the Daily Mail today, I have tabled a clear and robust

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amendment about the deportation of foreign criminals jailed for a year

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or more, unless they face a risk of being tortured or murdered on

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return. What is wrong with that? The bill achieved a lot of what, as

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Dominic was saying, helps matters. What is wrong with the phrase? The

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point about the bill as it stands committed to make it easier to

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deport foreign criminals it will build on the work which is to cut

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nearly a third of net immigration in the country. Doing a lot of the

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right things. Will you accept the amendment or not? It is an

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independent amendment. I would not have to ask if it was going to be

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accepted or not. It is a government Bill. Let me try one more time will

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stop will you will you not accept the amendment? The bill as it

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stands... I'm answering your question. This is as we want it.

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Will Labour vote for it? The likelihood of us reaching the

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Dominic Raab amendment tomorrow is unlikely. The Government has

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dedicated just four hours to the report stage. The Government has

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tabled 52 amendments. Dominic Raab tabled his amendment very late. If

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it were earlier, we might have a different conversation. You mean, I

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have just wasted my time. Unfortunately... If we do reach this

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amendment for a vote, how will Labour vote? I have concerns. The

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issue with this amendment as it is written means we

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Opportunities for us to vote on this tomorrow. I don't think you are

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right to tear up the human rights act. Article eight spells out there

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is a right to a family life and that is where a number of foreign

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criminals have not been deported because the courts have lent over

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backwards in many cases to rule in favour of a right to family life.

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But Article eight says that can be overruled when necessary for

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national security, public safety, preventing disorder, crime or to

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protect others. Unlike you cannot send people back to be tortured on

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which there are no exemptions. This amendment simply requires judges to

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approve the deportation of foreign criminals who have been jailed for

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more than a year unless they face the risk of being tortured or

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murdered. Why does that fly in the face of Article eight? My

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understanding of it is, I can only go on... Do you agree now your

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understanding is wrong? We have looked at this issue and it is our

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interpretation that it does fly in the face of the human rights act. I

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would not want anything to compromise that. That is the issue

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with this amendment tomorrow. The criminals pleading to a right to

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family life in the UK is accounting for 98 ascent of successful appeals.

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We had this crazy situation a couple of years back to dispute whether the

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cat was the reason they should not be deported. Theresa May got into

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hot water over that. But the fact we are having to have this discussion

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shows the balance has gone wrong. What this bill already does, as you

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suggested, it tightens up the whole different set of criteria in order

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to make it easier to deport people. This government has had a lot of

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success in getting rid of people who have been in this country for too

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long who should not have been here. Sometimes with a terrorist

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background and it should be easier to deport them. We have a good track

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record on this. It turns out that far from flat-lining, the economy

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grew by almost 2% last year. This year is expected to reach the dizzy

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heights of 2.4%. We are starting to the financial crisis behind us but

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is there an appetite to make the wealthy difference to Labour and the

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Lib Dems think so. The Conservatives not so much.

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Tax rates became the latest political tussle after Shadow

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Chancellor, Ed Balls, announced a new target for Labour on the weekend

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- Britain's biggest earners. He whacked the rich with a promise to

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raise income tax on earnings above ?150,000 to 50%. Boss class cried

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out Labour's attitude was "if it creates wealth, let's kick it" -

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complained former Trade Minister, Lord Jones. That may not deter the

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Lib Dems though. They're willing to wring billions from the really rich

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with a mansion tax on properties over ?2million and a 20% cut to the

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lifetime tax-free limit on pension contributions to just ?1million. All

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measures approved at their party conference last year. The

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Conservatives however, don't think it pays to take too much from top

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earners. David Cameron has ruled out a mansion tax saying it's not right

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if you want to reward saving and people who work hard and do the

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right thing. Whilst Boris wants them to brood on bringing down the top

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tax rate to a beneficent 40% which George Osborne has not yet ruled

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out. Basically, you could only go into coalition with Labour on that

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basis. What is right is to say we should be asking people who do have

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large amounts of wealth to be able to contribute more. That has to be

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the right thing to do. I would like to see more people moved out of

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income tax at the bottom end. The Lib Dem policy has been very

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successful and saved a lot of money. We would like to go further

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and match that to the national minimum wage. Nobody on the national

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minimum wage has to pay income tax. It seems right it is the people with

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the most money, with large amounts of wealth, who contribute to that.

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That is up to you. You want a mansion tax on homes of more than 2

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million and tax relief to be cut back on pensions. You want capital

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gains tax to rise on income tax. You want to keep the 45p tax rate. I do

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not think it would rule out going to 50. -- you would rule out. All of

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these things you are more likely to get from Labour than the

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Conservatives. What with the Tories agreed to? Let me ask him. We have

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the chairman of the Conservative party here. The only question we

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should be asking ourselves is, do we want to grow the economy and what

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help the poorest people the most? The answer is getting jobs and

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making sure people keep more of the money they earn. If by taking any of

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these steps it means there are fewer jobs in the economy and it means

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taxes are raised and employment levels are depressed as a result, it

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is the wrong thing to do. I do not think mansion tax makes sense. I am

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trying to find out where you are. You are against 50p as well. You can

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jack up taxes and export all of the expertise and wealth creators to

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another country. You would like a mansion tax? If I could come back to

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a point, if I could. Thank you very much. We hear from the Lib Dems and

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the Tories about how they would increase the income tax threshold.

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We have asked the people on lowest and middle incomes to pay the most.

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The average household is actually seeing a net reduction of ?891

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because of tax changes. You want a mansion tax? What we need to be

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looking at is an introduction of the 50p tax. You want a mansion tax?

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Yellow marker that is what we are looking at. Just looking at? It is

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your policy to have a mansion tax. As we heard from Ed Balls, I think

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it is fair. So, you want it? This morning my job is not to argue about

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the reasons for all against, it is to establish what you are for. You

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want a mansion tax and so does he. You want a top rate of tax of 50p?

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You would go along with that, wouldn't you? The key question is

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whether it raises more money. It is a very marginal case.

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If it did, would you go along with Labour on a 50p tax? You need to

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have more money coming from the richest to help the poor. If it

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reduces the income and damages the economy, there is no point. But it

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is a matter of negotiation for the two of you. You are both in favour

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of an mansion tax, you would want it if it brought more money in on the

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50p. The chairman of the Conservative Party is against both.

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We're talking Lib-Lab. I would be very dubious. Provocative. If the

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Lib Dems are not against it, have you got any idea what this 50p rate

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with ringing? We now essentially what has happened by reducing the

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tax rate down to 45p has seen a giveaway of ?3 billion. Where did

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you get that figure from? That is from the Treasury. No it is not,

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where did you get it from. That is the figure we have in terms of...

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No, you don't. HMRC figure that the court is down to 100 million. Not

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300. The Treasury figure is not 3 billion. We know that we saw a ?10

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billion extra raised by increasing the tax rate. We don't know that

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either. Shall we just clarify this. What was done previously was based

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on assumptions that ministers may, not made by their hatred seek, done

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in very quick time by George Osborne in the run-up to the 2012 budget.

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The 10 billion figure Ed Balls alluded to was a HMRC projection.

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The whole thing is complicated, lower rates coming in, venue hire

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rates were coming in. Between both of your parties, you have made quite

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a Horlicks of the whole thing. What we do know is when the top rate was

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cut to 45%, the amount the government talk in from that rose by

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about 7 billion. What we don't know if it was more people paying tax or

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if they had held back their income until the 45p came in. The reason I

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ask is because your party has come up with this because it is an

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essential part of cutting the deficit. But if it's main purpose

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was to cut the deficit, you need a clear idea of how much it will bring

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in? The previous estimates made by George Osborne, work done by the

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hate Jamar is the was done in quick time and there was lots of

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assumptions made by behaviour. As far as I am aware, we did see an

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increase of ?10 billion that came into the Treasury as a result when

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the tax rate went up to 50p. I have looked through the figures and that

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is not true. There is a lot of talk about the squeezed middle, where are

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all these ordinary middle-class families who don't, particularly in

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London and the south-east, don't earn that much. 40,000 a year if you

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live in London and the south-east is not a princely sum. What are you

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doing about them? We want to get rid of the deficit, we have got rid of a

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third of it so far. We said by 2017, 18 we can pay back money, or start

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to pay back money. You will only have 1.5 trillion to pay back. You

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will pay that back before any of those in the 40% bracket will get

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any relief? The important key moment is the point when we stop adding to

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the debt and start repaying it. The only argument about tax or anything

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else is what helps us get to that point the fastest. There is no doubt

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the number of jobs created in the economy and the speed at which the

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economy has started to grow can be put at risk by Ed Balls figures. He

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came out at the weekend using the wrong figures, without realising

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that those were projections and not actual figures. Julian, then

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Luciano. If we allowed you to have ?1 million tax-free annual pension,

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which is still a lot of money, ?45,000 a year to live on, but we

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will not subsidise people above that. People with a House worth ?2

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million, they can provide more money to help people at the bottom. What

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if they are asset rich and cash poor. What if they inherited the

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House, an old lady who has no income, what will they do? It would

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he set up as a charge against the House, so you would not pay it until

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you sell the House. But then you would not get the money to pay for

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what you want to spend now? Absolutely, it takes some time to

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come in. So you can't use it to finance current spending? Most

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people I expect, with pay as they go. You said people on mansion tax

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to use it to take people out of tax altogether, if you are declaring the

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mansion tax, you cannot use it? You would defer a small bit of it.

:23:35.:23:43.

Labour, cut capital gains tax to 18%, so it was less than the basic

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rate of income tax. That helps people who get paid in ways you can

:23:47.:23:53.

adjust to that. We wanted to be equal to have the balance between

:23:54.:23:56.

the different options. The times we will have to face 2015, 16, George

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Osborne told us he would be balancing the books. That is not

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going to happen. Now we will have a deficit of 79 billion. The policy is

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you are going to follow, the ones that have stopped other economy is

:24:15.:24:18.

growing and increased unemployment elsewhere. The Chancellor has the

:24:19.:24:26.

whole service -- Civil Service, it is only fair when we have seen the

:24:27.:24:30.

?3 billion giveaway to those on the highest incomes, those on the lowest

:24:31.:24:34.

have that to suffer over the course of your government. You guys don't

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even know your own numbers. As Ed Balls proved that the weekend. You

:24:42.:24:46.

take the Labour version of the mansion tax becomes a home tax,

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taxing houses of 440,000. That as it starts, no doubt it would come down

:24:54.:24:58.

after that. People would be hit because they live in an area with

:24:59.:25:02.

higher House prices like London and they would be hit by your so-called

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mansion tax. In principle, why do you think it is right those with the

:25:09.:25:12.

broadest shoulders don't contribute as much? They do, they pay most of

:25:13.:25:20.

the tax of the tax in this country. My concern is if you get rid of the

:25:21.:25:23.

wealth creators in this country, unemployment goes up and that is

:25:24.:25:26.

what has happened in other countries who have pursued the same line as Ed

:25:27.:25:35.

Balls. You have mentioned France. I have a little test for you. You have

:25:36.:25:43.

mentioned have bad things are under President Hollande. Family people

:25:44.:25:48.

are unemployed in France? 11.1%. What is the size of the French

:25:49.:25:57.

deficit? Pass. 4.1%. What is the size of the French national debt?

:25:58.:26:10.

Around 100%. 93.4%. Why is the 50p tax such a disincentive? Here is

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what I know, you can create an economy where people want to work in

:26:17.:26:21.

the economy, create jobs and they employ people. I was in Halifax last

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week and met an individual who has just done into business, she started

:26:25.:26:30.

six months ago and is ready to employ her first employee. The

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things we are doing to make it easy to employ people... We had to stop

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there. Julian we will keep you go but we will keep these two hostage

:26:45.:26:47.

because we were having so much fun. Now, the pub landlord, Al Murray, is

:26:48.:26:50.

a patriotic, right wing, Queen-loving character - just like

:26:51.:26:53.

the Prime Minister, some might say. They both enjoy a pint and a white

:26:54.:26:57.

wine for the lady, Blue Nunn presumably. And it turns out they're

:26:58.:27:00.

also related. Yes genealogists have discovered that Al Murray is the

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Prime Minister's first cousin five times removed.

:27:04.:27:10.

Who worked that out? Their great-great-great-great-great

:27:11.:27:12.

grandfather is one William Thackeray, grandfather of the famous

:27:13.:27:19.

novelist. And they don't just have shared interests, as you can see

:27:20.:27:22.

that have a remarkable visual resemblance too. Maybe the next time

:27:23.:27:32.

they meet in the Dog and Duck they can have a toast with one of these.

:27:33.:27:37.

But if either of them wants to get their mitts on one, they'll have to

:27:38.:27:41.

enter our competition. We'll remind you how to enter in a

:27:42.:27:45.

minute, but let's see if you can remember when this happened. This

:27:46.:27:50.

contains flashing images. A belief dictates that justice be

:27:51.:28:06.

served and mercy be shown. I think it is an easy one this one.

:28:07.:29:21.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug send your answer

:29:22.:29:25.

to our special quiz e-mail address. And you can see the full terms and

:29:26.:29:29.

conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:29:30.:29:31.

It's coming up to midday here, just take a look at Big Ben. That can

:29:32.:29:35.

mean only one thing! Yes, Prime Minister's Questions on its way. And

:29:36.:29:39.

that's not all - Nick Robinson is here. Syria, the economy, got to be

:29:40.:29:47.

two things? I think so. It is a repeat of last week. Ed Miliband

:29:48.:29:54.

will want to gain some of the credit for the decision on Syria. Labour

:29:55.:29:57.

put the motion down debated on Syria. The conservative Immigration

:29:58.:30:01.

Minister said it would be a token to have Syrian refugees. Ed Miliband

:30:02.:30:08.

will want to claim this is because of Labour pressure in Parliament.

:30:09.:30:13.

And we are only days since Ed Balls unveiled the policy on 50p tax. The

:30:14.:30:19.

day after the GDP numbers. He did not raise the economy, he would be

:30:20.:30:27.

jeered about as much as Ed Balls was jeered for the amount of time he

:30:28.:30:31.

took to get to his feet yesterday. It will be interesting to see how

:30:32.:30:35.

Labour are just position as evidence of the recovery gathers steam? It

:30:36.:30:45.

has been doing that already. But the cost of living crisis will not be

:30:46.:30:50.

sold by growth on this scale. In a sense both parties agree with that.

:30:51.:30:56.

The problem again, before the recession. Let's go over to the

:30:57.:30:58.

Prime Mr Speaker, figures showed the UK

:30:59.:31:12.

economy is growing at its fastest rate since 2007. That is proof that

:31:13.:31:20.

our plan is working. There is a choice, stick with it or abandoned

:31:21.:31:26.

the plan that is delivering a better economic future and jobs for my

:31:27.:31:29.

constituents in Norwich North. With the Prime Minister Brindley

:31:30.:31:39.

long-term decisions are helping -- with the Prime Minister agree these

:31:40.:31:45.

long-term decisions are helping? That should be the test of the

:31:46.:31:50.

decisions we are taking. It will secure a better future, more

:31:51.:31:54.

stability, more peace of mind for our children and grandchildren. Last

:31:55.:31:58.

week we saw the biggest number of new jobs in a quarter since records

:31:59.:32:02.

began. This week we see the fastest growth in our economy was she is.

:32:03.:32:06.

There should be no complacency, the job was nowhere near complete. If we

:32:07.:32:11.

stick to our long-term economic plan, we can see our country rise

:32:12.:32:27.

and people rise as well. We were welcomed the change of heart

:32:28.:32:32.

regarding Syrian refugees. We look forward to the statement by the Home

:32:33.:32:36.

Secretary. Will he reassure the house he will act with the utmost

:32:37.:32:41.

urgency, because we are talking about the most honourable people in

:32:42.:32:47.

refugee camps, who need help now? We will act with the greatest urgency.

:32:48.:32:52.

When it comes to Syria, we have acted with the greatest urgency

:32:53.:32:57.

throughout. We have made available ?600 million, which makes the second

:32:58.:33:02.

largest humanitarian donor. We have provided food for 188,000 people and

:33:03.:33:08.

clean water for almost 1 million. Medical consultations for almost a

:33:09.:33:11.

quarter of a million. We will be coming forward with a scheme to help

:33:12.:33:16.

the most needy people in the refugee camps and offer them a home in our

:33:17.:33:20.

country. We want to make sure we help those who have been victims of

:33:21.:33:25.

sexual violence. The Foreign Secretary has rightly, on behalf of

:33:26.:33:29.

the whole country, championed this across the world. I welcome the

:33:30.:33:36.

decision by the Government to accept Syrian refugees. It is a very

:33:37.:33:40.

important cause. Another subject, can I ask the Prime Minister, who

:33:41.:33:47.

said this before the election, showing we are all in this together

:33:48.:33:51.

means the rich will pay their share? That is why the 50p tax rate

:33:52.:34:09.

will have to stay. Be fact is... The question has been asked and the

:34:10.:34:14.

answer must be heard. Under this government, the richest will pay

:34:15.:34:17.

more in income tax in every year than any year when he was in

:34:18.:34:22.

office. I want the richest to pay more in tax and under this

:34:23.:34:27.

government they are. We are creating jobs, we are creating growth. We are

:34:28.:34:31.

encouraging investment. What we heard from Labour over the last 48

:34:32.:34:35.

hours is they want to attack that grows, they want to tax jobs and

:34:36.:34:44.

businesses. We now have in Britain and anti-business, and he grows,

:34:45.:34:54.

anti-jobs party. What we have is a policy with the overwhelming support

:34:55.:34:58.

of the most important people of all, the people of Britain. He is

:34:59.:35:08.

busy rather coy in telling us. It was he who said it in 2009, just

:35:09.:35:14.

before the election. It was him that said, the 50p tax rate was a symbol

:35:15.:35:18.

of us all being in it together and now it has gone. Now, can he tell us

:35:19.:35:25.

whether he rules out cutting the top rate further to 40p? The Chancellor

:35:26.:35:33.

set out yesterday exactly what our priorities are. Cutting taxes for

:35:34.:35:37.

the lowest paid and for middle-income people. I am not

:35:38.:35:40.

surprised he did not hear the Chancellor because, like the rest of

:35:41.:35:43.

the Labour Party coming here was not here yesterday. -- the Labour Party,

:35:44.:35:51.

he was not here yesterday. They left the Shadow Chancellor all on his

:35:52.:35:57.

own. While we are in the business of who has said interesting things in

:35:58.:36:06.

recent days... Let me ask him this... Mr Robertson! Mr Robertson,

:36:07.:36:21.

calm yourself, man! The lion must get back in his den. There is plenty

:36:22.:36:31.

more. There is plenty more. While we are on the subject of interesting

:36:32.:36:36.

quotes, who, in the last 48 hours, said this? Do I think the level of

:36:37.:36:41.

public spending going into the crisis was a problem for Britain?

:36:42.:36:48.

No, I don't, nor our deficit, nor the national debt. He even said in

:36:49.:36:54.

some areas, we can spend more. That is the Shadow Chancellor. We were

:36:55.:37:02.

talking earlier about our children. Can our children in future turned to

:37:03.:37:09.

the dictionary and look up the definition of denial and find it

:37:10.:37:17.

will say Balls, aired. A long time ago, I asked a question. The Prime

:37:18.:37:23.

Minister failed to answer it. Let's give him another go. Does he rule

:37:24.:37:33.

out giving another tax cut to the richest in society by cutting the

:37:34.:37:41.

top rate to 40p? Calm down, calm down. Yes, yes or no? There is so

:37:42.:37:53.

much good news I cannot wait to get up and tell him. Our priority is to

:37:54.:37:58.

cut taxes for the lowest paid in our country. That is why we have taken 2

:37:59.:38:04.

million people act of tax. Let us look to the reaction to his 50p

:38:05.:38:09.

announcement. Businesses have said it would cost jobs. Labour ministers

:38:10.:38:13.

that he's served alongside have queued up to say it is economic leap

:38:14.:38:21.

illiterate. The ISS has said it will raise hardly any money. It is a

:38:22.:38:26.

disastrous policy launch from a disastrous Labour economic team.

:38:27.:38:33.

With every answer he shows who he stands up for, a few at the top and

:38:34.:38:37.

not the ordinary families of Britain. That is the truth. It is a

:38:38.:38:44.

very simple question. I know the Prime Minister does not love

:38:45.:38:47.

answering questions at Prime Minister 's questions but that is

:38:48.:38:51.

the point of these occasions. We are asking him a very simple question.

:38:52.:38:57.

We have a very clear position which we would reverse the millionaires

:38:58.:39:03.

tax cut and put a top rate of tax back to 50p. I am asking him for a

:39:04.:39:09.

very simple question: Does he rule out reducing the top rate to 40p?

:39:10.:39:18.

Yes, or no? Our priority are tax cuts for low earners and middle

:39:19.:39:27.

earners. What have we seen from him so far this year? A banking policy

:39:28.:39:36.

the Governor of the Bank of England will say increases risk. A tax

:39:37.:39:39.

policy that business leaders said would be a risk to our recovery.

:39:40.:39:46.

There is a crisis in our country, it is a crisis of economic credibility

:39:47.:39:51.

for the Labour Party. The whole country will have heard he had three

:39:52.:39:55.

opportunities to answer and he could not give us a straight answer to the

:39:56.:40:00.

question. After four years of this government, people are worse off.

:40:01.:40:04.

This is a Prime Minister who has already given those at the top,

:40:05.:40:10.

millionaires, a ?100,000 tax cut and he wants to give them another one.

:40:11.:40:15.

He can only govern for the few, he can never governed for the many. I

:40:16.:40:20.

will tell you who we are governing for, the 1.3 million people who got

:40:21.:40:26.

jobs under this government, the 400,000 new businesses under this

:40:27.:40:29.

government, the 2 million people we have taken out of tax under this

:40:30.:40:33.

government, people on the minimum wage you have seen tax bills come

:40:34.:40:37.

down by two thirds under this government, that is who we are

:40:38.:40:41.

governing for. We have more factories producing more goods and

:40:42.:40:45.

more people taking home a pay packet, more security for

:40:46.:40:50.

hard-working families. Now we can see their risks - Labour, a wrist to

:40:51.:40:55.

jobs, a risk to the recovery and the future of Britain 's security. Mr

:40:56.:41:09.

Speaker, the severe flooding on the Somerset levels is causing acute

:41:10.:41:13.

distress to the people who live in that area. Will the Prime Minister

:41:14.:41:17.

gave a commitment today to both take immediate action to try and clear

:41:18.:41:22.

the flood water from the Somerset levels as soon as possible, and also

:41:23.:41:26.

to put in place a long-term plan to try and make sure that this does not

:41:27.:41:32.

happen again in the future? I can give my honourable friend both those

:41:33.:41:42.

assurances. COBRA will be meeting again. The system is not -- the

:41:43.:41:48.

situation is not acceptable. Dredging will start as soon as it is

:41:49.:41:55.

practical and as soon as the waters have started to come down. The

:41:56.:41:58.

Environment Agency is pumping as much water as possible, given the

:41:59.:42:02.

capacity of the rivers around the levels. I have ordered high pressure

:42:03.:42:10.

pumps to be made available to increase this operation as soon as

:42:11.:42:14.

there is capacity in the rivers to support that. We are looking at

:42:15.:42:21.

further help and I will try to get this problem sorted. Can I invite

:42:22.:42:27.

the Prime Minister to visit my constituency in Corby? Spend a day

:42:28.:42:36.

on a zero hours contract with someone on the minimum wage and he

:42:37.:42:39.

can get an insight into the world of work for many people on his watch? I

:42:40.:42:47.

will be visiting his constituency in the next 16 months. It is

:42:48.:42:53.

unacceptable that people are paid below minimum wage. We want to see

:42:54.:42:56.

more enforcement, more action to make sure that does not happen. It

:42:57.:43:02.

is not accessed double. We have a minimum wage for a good reason and I

:43:03.:43:09.

want to see it properly enforced. Is it not the case we have learned over

:43:10.:43:14.

successive years over the last two or three decades that irresponsible

:43:15.:43:25.

economic policy to maximise tax rates, if they are set too high,

:43:26.:43:30.

they are the politics of envy and raise less taxes? Might honourable

:43:31.:43:37.

friend makes a very sensible point. The point of this is to raise

:43:38.:43:40.

revenue and not to make a political point. What the party opposite wants

:43:41.:43:45.

to do is make a political point because they believe in the politics

:43:46.:43:48.

of envy and not raising money for public services. In the end, the

:43:49.:43:53.

truth is this... The top 1% of taxpayers in our country are paying

:43:54.:43:58.

30% of the total income tax take. The richest taxpayers are actually

:43:59.:44:01.

going to be paying more in every year of this government. Mr Speaker,

:44:02.:44:15.

over 300,000 people are reported to be paid less than the minimum wage.

:44:16.:44:20.

I was heartened by what the prime minister just said. If that is the

:44:21.:44:24.

case and he is really committed to the minimum wage, why have only two

:44:25.:44:31.

employees been prosecuted and half the level of investigations? We have

:44:32.:44:36.

seen around 700 penalties issued for not paying minimum wage. We are

:44:37.:44:39.

taking enforcement action and we need to take more enforcement

:44:40.:44:44.

action. The Chancellor has made very clear that we also want to see the

:44:45.:44:48.

opportunity for the minimum wage to rise as the economy recovers. It

:44:49.:44:53.

should be possible to see the value of the minimum wage restored. We are

:44:54.:44:58.

keen to see that happen. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I know the Prime

:44:59.:45:02.

Minister deals in facts. We have more jobs in this country than ever

:45:03.:45:08.

recorded before. We also have a gross prediction that is higher than

:45:09.:45:13.

anyone would have thought a year ago. Will we now consider looking at

:45:14.:45:17.

the minimum wage and considering whether the level of the minimum

:45:18.:45:21.

wage could be racer that we ensure that everyone benefits from this

:45:22.:45:29.

recovery? -- could be raised. It is extremely good news we have over 30

:45:30.:45:33.

million people in work - record numbers in work. What has happened

:45:34.:45:37.

under this government is that the minimum wage has gone up by 10%. We

:45:38.:45:42.

have cut taxes are low earners and that means another 10% increase in

:45:43.:45:46.

the minimum wage. I hope it will be possible to see the real value of

:45:47.:45:51.

the minimum wage restored. I think we should listen and allow the low

:45:52.:45:53.

pay commission to do their work. I do not want to see this issue is

:45:54.:45:58.

becoming something of a political football. Everyone agrees, as an

:45:59.:46:02.

economy recovers, it should be possible to restore that value.

:46:03.:46:11.

A man who lived in the UK for 40 years and who has family in my

:46:12.:46:20.

constituency has been convicted of blastomeres and sentenced to death

:46:21.:46:25.

in Pakistan. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in 2010 and

:46:26.:46:29.

was treated in Edinburgh. But the judges refused to take that into

:46:30.:46:33.

account. I wrote to the Foreign Secretary yesterday, but can the

:46:34.:46:36.

Prime Minister is your meat the government is doing what they can to

:46:37.:46:44.

return this man to the UK to get the treatment he needs? I can get the

:46:45.:46:48.

honourable lady the assurance she asked for. I am concerned about this

:46:49.:46:53.

death sentence, and it is our long-standing policy to oppose the

:46:54.:46:55.

death and naughty in all circumstances. But the Pakistani

:46:56.:47:00.

authorities can be in no doubt of the seriousness with which we view

:47:01.:47:06.

this. We spoke to the Punjab in Monday, and the high commission in

:47:07.:47:09.

Islamabad continues to raise this. Foreign officials are meeting

:47:10.:47:15.

Pakistani officials in London today. We take this seriously and we are

:47:16.:47:26.

making that clear at every level. Portsmouth is an entrepreneurial

:47:27.:47:33.

city delivering eight drop of 25% in GSA claimants over the last year.

:47:34.:47:37.

With this in mind, is the Prime Minister aware of a commercial plan

:47:38.:47:42.

put forward to build a number of specialist vessels designed to

:47:43.:47:46.

revolutionise and facilitate the industrialisation of the tidal

:47:47.:47:50.

energy sector. Would the Prime Minister agree that Portsmouth would

:47:51.:47:54.

be an excellent place to build those ships? Can I congratulate the

:47:55.:47:58.

honourable lady for everything she has done to highlight Portsmouth and

:47:59.:48:06.

all matters and maritime. I am aware of this project. I understand there

:48:07.:48:10.

will be a meeting with the business department. It is testament to the

:48:11.:48:15.

excellent reputation Portsmouth has that there is so much interest in

:48:16.:48:18.

this sector that we want to see expanded. The appointment of a

:48:19.:48:24.

minister the Portsmouth will make a big difference. It is good news the

:48:25.:48:28.

youth claimant is down so far in Portsmouth, but we must stick to the

:48:29.:48:34.

economic plan. Increasingly in London, young people are finding it

:48:35.:48:39.

impossible to be able to afford or rent or buy a home. Why is it under

:48:40.:48:43.

this government we are seeing the fewest number of housing starts

:48:44.:48:48.

since the 1920s and a housing bubble that is being driven by wealthy,

:48:49.:48:55.

overseas buyers? First of all, on that last point, it is this

:48:56.:48:58.

government that is introducing capital gains tax for overseas

:48:59.:49:02.

buyers, some think the Labour Party for 13 years never did. When it

:49:03.:49:09.

comes to housing, you have nearly 400,000 new homes delivered since

:49:10.:49:12.

2010. Huge amounts of money going into social housing. It is this

:49:13.:49:18.

government reforming the planning system, often opposed by the party

:49:19.:49:20.

opposite, to make these things happen. Does my right honourable

:49:21.:49:27.

friend share my concern that the Public Administration select

:49:28.:49:31.

committee enquiry into police recorded crime statistics has found

:49:32.:49:39.

flaws in reliability. While crime is undoubtedly falling over all, would

:49:40.:49:41.

he agree with me the Home Office should work urgently with police

:49:42.:49:47.

chiefs across the country to restore the authority of these statistics

:49:48.:49:50.

and police chiefs should concentrate on leadership based on values and

:49:51.:49:55.

service to the public, not on discredited targets? On his last

:49:56.:50:02.

point, we scrapped all targets apart from the target of reducing crime,

:50:03.:50:08.

which is the most important thing. It is important statistics are as

:50:09.:50:12.

robust as possible, that is why we transferred responsibility to the

:50:13.:50:15.

independent office of National statistics. We have passed HMRC to

:50:16.:50:21.

carry out an audit on crime recording in every Louise Fors. The

:50:22.:50:27.

Home Secretary has written to all police constables to make sure

:50:28.:50:32.

statistics must be recorded credibly. It is whether you look at

:50:33.:50:40.

crimes recorded by the police or the British crime survey, they show

:50:41.:50:42.

crime is falling and has fallen by more than 10%. I would like to thank

:50:43.:50:50.

the Prime Minister for his comments about the man in Pakistan who has

:50:51.:50:56.

given the death sentence. Dozens of your own back ventures have said

:50:57.:51:00.

they will support the amendment to the Immigration Bill which will be

:51:01.:51:03.

incompatible to any treaties. One Tory MPs have demanded British

:51:04.:51:09.

Parliament be able to veto every single European law, which he knows

:51:10.:51:12.

is unworkable. The Prime Minister has given concession after

:51:13.:51:17.

concession to the anti-Europeans. When will he learn they will never

:51:18.:51:22.

be satisfied with anything except a British withdrawal from the European

:51:23.:51:28.

Union? I don't agree. We need to correct in the Immigration Bill, the

:51:29.:51:33.

fact it has been so difficult to deport people who don't have a right

:51:34.:51:36.

to be here, who should be facing trial overseas, or should be

:51:37.:51:42.

deported overseas, but they make spurious arguments about the right

:51:43.:51:46.

to a family life. It is right we are changing that. It is a sensible step

:51:47.:51:50.

and nothing anti-European about that and we should pass the Immigration

:51:51.:52:01.

Bill with speed. Mr Speaker, last year the government successfully

:52:02.:52:04.

deported Abu Qatada. The new Immigration Bill will crack down on

:52:05.:52:10.

illegal immigrants make it easier to deport foreign criminals. Can he

:52:11.:52:16.

confirm immigration law applies to political parties and their gurus? I

:52:17.:52:22.

can, but I am sure I should not comment on this case that is now

:52:23.:52:30.

being investigated. Don't tempt me! It is an important piece of law we

:52:31.:52:34.

will be discussing on Thursday, because we don't just need to have

:52:35.:52:37.

control at our borders, we need to make sure Britain cannot come to

:52:38.:52:40.

Britain and abuse our health service or get rights to counsel or other

:52:41.:52:46.

housing, bank accounts and driving licences if they have no right to be

:52:47.:52:51.

here. The Immigration Bill makes those important changes. And many

:52:52.:52:56.

more, including making it possible for us to deport people who don't

:52:57.:53:00.

matter have a risk in their own country before they have an appeal.

:53:01.:53:03.

They can appeal from overseas. I hope we will not delay too much

:53:04.:53:09.

before passing this bill. People in my constituency and up and down the

:53:10.:53:12.

country are working harder just to make ends meet, as their pay is

:53:13.:53:16.

outstripped by prices. Does the Prime Minister agree with the

:53:17.:53:20.

Business Secretary who said a property fuelled recovery is the

:53:21.:53:26.

wrong recovery? And the answer is on page 37 in his folder! What I think

:53:27.:53:31.

he will find is the Business Secretary said, it is welcome that

:53:32.:53:37.

in terms of our GDP growth, we have seen strong growth in manufacturing

:53:38.:53:40.

and industrial production and not just in services. In terms of making

:53:41.:53:46.

sure we genuinely help people, as our economy grows, we need to cut

:53:47.:53:52.

taxes. We have cut taxes, because we have made difficult decisions about

:53:53.:53:58.

public spending. Every one of those decisions has been opposed by the

:53:59.:54:01.

party opposite will stop if we had listened to them people would have a

:54:02.:54:05.

more difficult situation with the cost of living. Can I thank the

:54:06.:54:10.

Prime Minister for his announcement on the dredging of the rivers in

:54:11.:54:18.

Somerset, an area where we have an area bigger than the size of Bristol

:54:19.:54:23.

underwater and it has been under water for more than a month. Can I

:54:24.:54:28.

take it from him, that what he is doing is committing the whole of

:54:29.:54:33.

government, including DC LG, transport and the Treasury to

:54:34.:54:38.

working with Defra to deal with this situation, not now, but for future

:54:39.:54:43.

years as well? I can give him that assurance. I don't want to see

:54:44.:54:50.

dredging work being held up by arguments in other departments. We

:54:51.:54:55.

have got to crack this problem. I would like to praise all the

:54:56.:54:59.

emergency services, Environment Agency, local flood wardens who have

:55:00.:55:02.

done such a valuable work, including in the Somerset Levels. We now need

:55:03.:55:07.

to move more rapidly to things like dredging. Mount Pleasant in my

:55:08.:55:11.

constituency is a development site that used to belong to Royal Mail.

:55:12.:55:19.

It was sold for an absolute song. Is it morally right for at least half

:55:20.:55:25.

of that site to be used for local people. Independent valuers have

:55:26.:55:29.

said developers could build 50% genuinely affordable housing and

:55:30.:55:33.

still make a huge profit. In those circumstances, given the level of

:55:34.:55:38.

local opposition, would it not be outrageous for the Mayor of London

:55:39.:55:41.

to approve the development of this site? How can 12% affordable housing

:55:42.:55:46.

help with the cost of living crisis for Londoners? I am happy to look at

:55:47.:55:52.

the site she mentions. But I think it is important we allowed the Mayor

:55:53.:55:57.

of London to carry out his planning responsibilities. When there are

:55:58.:56:01.

redevelopment opportunities, it is important they are not endlessly

:56:02.:56:04.

blocked because we need the developments, we need the growth and

:56:05.:56:10.

we need the housing. With the Prime Minister... The honourable gentleman

:56:11.:56:17.

is talking about Holocaust Memorial Day, let's have some respect.

:56:18.:56:21.

Holocaust Memorial day to race on Monday, will he join me in

:56:22.:56:29.

commemorating the Holocaust Memorial trust? I am grateful to the

:56:30.:56:35.

honourable gentleman for his question. Holocaust day is an

:56:36.:56:41.

important day. It gave me an enormous pleasure to welcome to

:56:42.:56:45.

Downing Street, no less than 50 Holocaust survivors who came and

:56:46.:56:50.

talked about their stories. Incredible and brave. We should rank

:56:51.:56:55.

them for the work they have done going into school after-school

:56:56.:56:59.

reminding people of the dangers of what happened in the past and how we

:57:00.:57:02.

should drive out hate and prejudice from our national life. The

:57:03.:57:07.

Holocaust commission has been set up and it is a cross-party commission

:57:08.:57:11.

with representatives from all parties, in order to ask the

:57:12.:57:18.

question, as tragedy -- tragically these Holocaust survivors come to

:57:19.:57:20.

the end of their lives, what should we do as a country to make sure the

:57:21.:57:25.

memory of this never fades? Whether it is recording their memories,

:57:26.:57:28.

museum, all these things will be looked at. I am sure the report will

:57:29.:57:33.

have support across this House. Despite the rhetoric, for most

:57:34.:57:37.

ordinary people, the reality is child poverty up, foodbank usage up,

:57:38.:57:42.

payday lending up, energy costs up, and wages down. The Prime Minister

:57:43.:57:48.

said he wanted the top job because he thought he would be good at it.

:57:49.:57:54.

So, when will he start to govern for all of the people in all of the

:57:55.:57:59.

country? Just to correct the first thing that came out of his mouth,

:58:00.:58:02.

under this government child poverty is down. I am not satisfied with the

:58:03.:58:10.

measure, I think we need a better measure. But employment is up,

:58:11.:58:17.

growth is up, the number of businesses is up. Yes we have a long

:58:18.:58:20.

way to go to restore our economic fortunes but we have a long-term

:58:21.:58:26.

economic plan, delivering for Britain's families. We have got to

:58:27.:58:32.

stick at it. Mr Speaker, I am pleased to report large companies

:58:33.:58:36.

are finding Watford and attractive place to do business from. I want to

:58:37.:58:46.

mention Wickes who are setting their headquarters up. But I went to the

:58:47.:58:53.

enterprise Hub in Watford last week and saw quite a few small businesses

:58:54.:59:01.

such as AC Solutions who said to me they were frustrated why the amount

:59:02.:59:06.

of bureaucracy and red tape that is hindering their business. I would

:59:07.:59:10.

like to ask the Prime Minister what he intends to do about it? I am

:59:11.:59:17.

grateful for what he says about the business environment in Watford. We

:59:18.:59:20.

are helping with taxes and red tape and helping with exports on red

:59:21.:59:26.

tape. This is going to be the first government in modern history that at

:59:27.:59:28.

the end of the parliament we will have less regulation than at the

:59:29.:59:33.

beginning of the parliament. I would commend the Minister for government

:59:34.:59:36.

policy and the business Department for his heroic effort to get those

:59:37.:59:42.

legislation onto websites so people can tell us what we can remove. We

:59:43.:59:47.

are on target for scrapping 3000 regulations under this government.

:59:48.:59:52.

This month, Cabinet papers revealed the Thatcher government sought to

:59:53.:00:01.

escalate the miners strike, close pits and the scars of that dispute

:00:02.:00:06.

are deep in communities like Wigan. Some families have never recovered

:00:07.:00:10.

and some have died waiting for justice. 30 years on they deserve

:00:11.:00:14.

the truth and an apology. Why are they still waiting? As my right

:00:15.:00:19.

honourable friend said, we have a system for releasing paperwork from

:00:20.:00:23.

ten, 20, 30 years ago and we should stick to that. If anyone needs to

:00:24.:00:28.

make an apology for their role in the miners strike it should be

:00:29.:00:33.

Arthur Scargill for the way he made that union. If other people want to

:00:34.:00:38.

ask about their roles, there was the role of the leader of the Labour

:00:39.:00:42.

Party, who at that time never condemned the fact they would never

:00:43.:00:47.

hold a ballot. There are lessons for Labour to land, and judging from

:00:48.:00:49.

their performance today, they have not learned any of them. Thank you

:00:50.:00:59.

Mr Speaker. There are plans to how is the new Bishop of Bath outside

:01:00.:01:04.

the city. Can the Prime Minister do everything in his power to postpone

:01:05.:01:09.

the residents of the bishops of Bath and Wells which has served perfectly

:01:10.:01:14.

well for 800 years? I think that might be a question for the member

:01:15.:01:19.

for Banbury, who guides me in these important issues. But I will go away

:01:20.:01:24.

and look at the issue of the Bishop of Bath and Wells. I will try and

:01:25.:01:30.

put the image of Blackadder out of my mind and try and come up with the

:01:31.:01:34.

right answer. If we are to have a parliament that reflects the people

:01:35.:01:39.

it serves, the Prime Minister must he disappointed that one in ten of

:01:40.:01:48.

his women MPs who came in in 2010 have indicated they will not

:01:49.:01:54.

re-stand. And that one of his most senior chairs of committee is facing

:01:55.:01:59.

deselection. What is the Tory party's problem with women? I am

:02:00.:02:06.

proud of the fact in the last parliament we had 19 women

:02:07.:02:08.

Conservative MPs and now it is closer to 50 in this Parliament. Do

:02:09.:02:13.

I want is to go further and faster? Yes I do. We will start by targeting

:02:14.:02:23.

his seat at the next election! I am sure the whole House will wish to

:02:24.:02:28.

congratulate my right honourable friend, the chancellor of the

:02:29.:02:30.

Exchequer, in sticking to their economic ones which is producing

:02:31.:02:38.

prosperity for the country. Would he agree with me it would be a foolish

:02:39.:02:44.

mistake if the British people were to place their trust in the shadow

:02:45.:02:51.

chancellor who has never owned up to their responsibility of last Labour

:02:52.:02:55.

government the catastrophic budget and sticks to the Socialist party of

:02:56.:03:02.

tax and spend which will ruin Britain? He put it with Carrick

:03:03.:03:10.

touristic strength and clarity. The party opposite have learned no

:03:11.:03:14.

lessons from the past, they said they will do it all over again and

:03:15.:03:18.

have a tax policy that tack -- cost jobs and now they have as Ms saying

:03:19.:03:24.

they have not got a clue. They remind me those two, have you seen

:03:25.:03:32.

the film Gravity? It is about to people who stepped out into a void

:03:33.:03:41.

and had no clue what to do next. Caroline Lucas. In light of the

:03:42.:03:44.

Prime Minister's welcome recognition at last week's PMQs, Brighton is a

:03:45.:03:52.

superb and sunny place. Will he visit Brighton energy co-op in my

:03:53.:03:56.

constituency that is showing the real potential of renewable energy,

:03:57.:04:03.

particularly solar power? And if we can see the energy strategy

:04:04.:04:07.

particularly provision for energy providers to sell to consumers, its

:04:08.:04:10.

potential would have far more. We pursue this strategy instead of

:04:11.:04:17.

fracking? I am sure I will be in Brighton before long and look

:04:18.:04:19.

forward to hearing about the renewable energy story. We need both

:04:20.:04:25.

of these things, we have set out the strike prices and the energy act, so

:04:26.:04:29.

we can be a real magnet or investment in renewable energy. We

:04:30.:04:34.

also need to take advantage of shale gas, clean gas, helping to keep

:04:35.:04:40.

energy bills down. I would say to those in the green movement who

:04:41.:04:45.

oppose it simply because shale gas includes carbon, it is a misguided

:04:46.:04:49.

approach. We want affordable energy as well as green energy. That should

:04:50.:04:51.

be our goal. The Home Secretary is about to make

:04:52.:05:04.

a statement to the House following PMQ 's. He only asked one question

:05:05.:05:08.

and then moved on, perhaps because we are getting this statement. It

:05:09.:05:14.

was then argy-bargy about the economy. It was interesting because

:05:15.:05:20.

the Prime Minister came off the back of the announcement by Ed Balls of

:05:21.:05:25.

Labour going for a top rate of 50p, it was not the best received

:05:26.:05:29.

announcement. Then we had the growth figures. The Prime Minister seemed

:05:30.:05:33.

to be less than sure-footed, despite the backdrop to today's PMQs. Last

:05:34.:05:48.

week, Christopher says, Ed Miliband asked David Cameron to allow Syrian

:05:49.:05:52.

refugees into the UK. This week he well. Maybe all this lark works.

:05:53.:05:58.

Another tweet saying we have descended into farce. Quite a few

:05:59.:06:01.

e-mails and tweet along that line, because of the noise and bickering.

:06:02.:06:11.

Philip Jones, Ed Miliband smells the Prime Minister -- nails the Prime

:06:12.:06:14.

Minister. The runner can Nelson from Liverpool, Ed Miliband attempts to

:06:15.:06:23.

raise the politics of envy. Ray from Nottingham, how does Ed Miliband get

:06:24.:06:28.

away with the tax cut for millionaires jibe? A bit messy,

:06:29.:06:36.

Nick? In a way because Ed Miliband did a simple tactic in asking a

:06:37.:06:44.

question, don't get the answer, ask it again, don't get the answer and

:06:45.:06:49.

ask it for a third time. That is what the Labour leader decided to

:06:50.:06:55.

do. The Prime Minister does not want to rule this out because one day

:06:56.:07:05.

they may want to do it. He had not got easily a kind of easy answer to

:07:06.:07:09.

it. He said all the things he should have been able to do, about the

:07:10.:07:13.

growth rate and inflation and unemployment, and pulling out all

:07:14.:07:17.

those quotes from business leaders and former Labour ministers having a

:07:18.:07:24.

go. He struggled to do. What is most interesting about it, Ed Miliband

:07:25.:07:27.

was criticised internally for not sticking with strategy. He announced

:07:28.:07:32.

something in a speech and talked about something different. What it

:07:33.:07:35.

showed what he had learned that lesson. If you're going to make a

:07:36.:07:39.

big announcement and think it is popular, stick with it. Keep it in

:07:40.:07:44.

peoples minds and keep banging away with it until people have caught and

:07:45.:07:49.

on that is what you are about. Why would a Conservative Prime Minister

:07:50.:07:53.

not say that one day, when finances allow it and economic conditions

:07:54.:08:00.

are, we would like to return to 40p? We want all taxes to come down,

:08:01.:08:05.

including all rates of tax. He did not say that. What he did say in

:08:06.:08:10.

response to this political manoeuvring from Ed Miliband, trying

:08:11.:08:16.

to kind of stick around this 40, 45, 50p tax thing, the Prime Minister

:08:17.:08:19.

said his main concern is getting tax down for lower and middle income

:08:20.:08:24.

people. You are going to expect it Prime Minister to stand at a

:08:25.:08:31.

dispatch box -- you are not going to expect a Prime Minister to stand at

:08:32.:08:37.

a dispatch box before the election and bright a budget. What we're

:08:38.:08:42.

looking for is principles of taxation. Why did he not say, of

:08:43.:08:49.

course he is taking those at the lower end out of tax? He has not

:08:50.:10:09.

done anything Labour has got you on the run on this, they have made you

:10:10.:10:15.

nervous about top rates of tax. Where as most conservatives would

:10:16.:10:19.

like to see a red return to the top rate of 40%, because of Labour's

:10:20.:10:24.

position, the Prime Minister is frightened of the political fallout?

:10:25.:10:28.

For Labour it is all to do with positioning. For us it is what

:10:29.:10:35.

creates a better economy. We have come out over the weekend and said

:10:36.:10:39.

it would be mad to sign up to putting tax up to 50p, if that means

:10:40.:10:47.

it loses jobs. We would only return to taxes under a Labour government?

:10:48.:10:53.

The Prime Minister was asked three times, a direct question. He did not

:10:54.:11:02.

and set it. While we have seen this ?3 billion giveaway to these people

:11:03.:11:07.

earning the top rate of tax, when the average working person is now

:11:08.:11:13.

?1600 worse off. If you don't include the fact they have had their

:11:14.:11:23.

taxes reduced. The equivalent of those tax credits and child benefit,

:11:24.:11:29.

it is ?881 per household. The Prime Minister was asked a direct question

:11:30.:11:37.

about the top 1%, who had not had to experience any pain. It is a much

:11:38.:11:52.

larger amount than 1%. You will probably have the figures? Who pay a

:11:53.:12:04.

higher tax rate. Higher, not top. Three .5 million paid 40%. It would

:12:05.:12:09.

be close to 5 billion by the end of your government. Why is 40p and then

:12:10.:12:14.

now if it wasn't unfair for 13 years of Labour government? We are coming

:12:15.:12:20.

back to what is happening now. The average working person, ?1600 worse

:12:21.:12:27.

off. What do the cuts to the top rate of someone earning tax meant?

:12:28.:12:34.

Reduce their income down from 116,000 to 114,000. I'm talking

:12:35.:12:40.

about the current context of deficit reduction. Millions of households up

:12:41.:12:45.

and down the country are expected to pay while those with the top incomes

:12:46.:12:49.

have not reduced the bonanza. I don't think it is fair. Do you agree

:12:50.:12:56.

with the 2.7 million who have been taken out of paying any tax? All of

:12:57.:13:02.

those people have been taken out of tax entirely. Rather than talking

:13:03.:13:09.

about those 2.7 million... You cannot talk about that in isolation.

:13:10.:13:12.

You have to look at the combination, the other fact is child benefit, you

:13:13.:13:18.

have to look at the impact of working tax credit. In my

:13:19.:13:22.

constituency I have working couples who cannot make up the hours because

:13:23.:13:26.

of the local supermarket in my constituency, don't have the hours

:13:27.:13:31.

for them to do. You must accept employment has gone up, more people

:13:32.:13:35.

are in work, including in your past, certainly in the north-west and the

:13:36.:13:41.

last election. The rate of wager my constituency has gone down by 1%.

:13:42.:13:47.

And they have been increased to ?10,000, the amount they can earn

:13:48.:13:58.

tax-free. What Labour have concluded is they do not want to get stuck in

:13:59.:14:02.

an economic debate. The Chancellor made an announcement on economic

:14:03.:14:12.

deficit reduction and then made a statement about the 40p tax. Whose

:14:13.:14:18.

side are you on is one of the most powerful questions in politics.

:14:19.:14:24.

Briefly, Andrew, Barack Obama used it again and again. That is why he

:14:25.:14:29.

beat Mitt Romney. He could say that Romney was on the side of the rich.

:14:30.:14:38.

He did his best to prove that. The when asked, did he like football, he

:14:39.:14:43.

said, yes, two of my friends own teams. We need you to stay. While we

:14:44.:14:53.

have been talking, Theresa May has been giving MPs details of plans to

:14:54.:14:57.

allow some Syrian refugees into Britain. Here is what she said. Our

:14:58.:15:02.

country has a proud tradition of providing protection to those in

:15:03.:15:05.

need. Whether are particularly difficult cases of honourable

:15:06.:15:10.

refugees who are at risk, we are willing to look at those cases.

:15:11.:15:15.

Following a meeting in London in recent days, I can tell the house

:15:16.:15:18.

that the Government will be launching a new programme to provide

:15:19.:15:23.

emergency sanctuary in the UK for displaced Syrians who are

:15:24.:15:29.

particularly vulnerable. There we go. A small number of Syrian

:15:30.:15:32.

refugees will be allowed in. You said, taking in a small number of

:15:33.:15:37.

Syrian refugees was tokenistic. I did not want to see happen we are

:15:38.:15:42.

putting over half ?1 billion in aid. That is as much as the other

:15:43.:15:47.

European countries altogether, that be discounted and then a relatively

:15:48.:15:55.

small move of taking in the small number being replaced. You said it

:15:56.:16:01.

was tokenistic. I was being asked in an interview, isn't it good that all

:16:02.:16:05.

these other countries, Germany, France and elsewhere, are taking

:16:06.:16:09.

people in? I was trying to point out we are giving more help than all of

:16:10.:16:13.

those countries put together. Why don't we take in more? There are 2

:16:14.:16:18.

million people and we cannot take in all of them. 5000, 10,000 is more

:16:19.:16:27.

than tokenistic and is a humanitarian gesture. The cases we

:16:28.:16:34.

are talking about now is children, where both parents have been killed

:16:35.:16:38.

and they do not have that support. Perhaps women who have been sexually

:16:39.:16:43.

abused. We are looking at the most honourable cases. The very worst

:16:44.:16:52.

cases. People in Britain can stand proud. We have given a huge amount

:16:53.:16:56.

of aid and we have this approach as well. We are stepping up to the

:16:57.:17:01.

plate and doing our bit. Is it not a sign of how toxic this issue has

:17:02.:17:05.

become that even Labour is only arguing for 500 Syrian refugees?

:17:06.:17:17.

I would like to understand the detail of how it will work. I'm not

:17:18.:17:27.

sure how it will work. We have to look in the context of the other

:17:28.:17:31.

countries that are signed up for it. Ireland is taking 90 people. France

:17:32.:17:39.

is taking relatively the same number as us. But we are British, aren't we

:17:40.:17:44.

meant to be better at this? We have a proud history. Why don't we argue

:17:45.:17:52.

for more? We want to be part of the process, set an example. It will be

:17:53.:17:57.

hundreds, rather than thousands, that is the indication? The scale of

:17:58.:18:02.

this thing shows with 2 million people displaced in Syria and moving

:18:03.:18:07.

out of Syria, there is not a physical number we could reach that

:18:08.:18:11.

could solve the problem. It is right to take the most vulnerable cases.

:18:12.:18:15.

At that to the extraordinary amount of British aid, ?600 million. It is

:18:16.:18:25.

a foreign aid budget of 14 billion, we should give more instead of how

:18:26.:18:28.

we do spend it. Giving money to India that has its own space

:18:29.:18:32.

programme. That is coming to an end. But it is not ended yet. 27

:18:33.:18:39.

countries in the EU, we are giving more than all of them put together.

:18:40.:18:44.

The Home Office have resisted taking refugees. They want to get net

:18:45.:18:51.

migration down to meet a Tory promise of getting net migration

:18:52.:18:54.

down. Like it or not, people think refugees are different -- different

:18:55.:19:01.

from immigrants, in terms of the merit of them coming here.

:19:02.:19:08.

Now, Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England is in Edinburgh

:19:09.:19:12.

today to discuss the currency implications of a "yes" vote in the

:19:13.:19:15.

Scottish independence referendum. Mr Carney, who met First Minister Alex

:19:16.:19:17.

Salmond for discussions this morning, has agreed to provide

:19:18.:19:20.

technical, objective, dry analysis ahead of the vote in September. The

:19:21.:19:23.

Scottish Government say they plan to keep the pound under independence,

:19:24.:19:27.

but the UK Government has said any such currency union would be

:19:28.:19:40.

unlikely. The Bank of England is an independent institution. It does not

:19:41.:19:44.

take a role in party politics. We had a splendid discussion and have

:19:45.:19:49.

agreed to continue the technical discussions. Not negotiations, but

:19:50.:19:56.

the technical discussions the Bank of England has been having with the

:19:57.:19:58.

Scottish Government so our proposals are soundly based on technical

:19:59.:20:05.

terms. Clear as mud! A lot of the use of the word, " technical". What

:20:06.:20:12.

is quite interesting is, people have said is it right for the governor of

:20:13.:20:17.

the Bank of England, it covers the whole of the UK. And founded by a

:20:18.:20:24.

Scotsman. He is a Canadian. Mark Carney, because he is a Canadian,

:20:25.:20:29.

because he was governor of the bank of Canada, because they have had to

:20:30.:20:33.

independence referendums in Q where the issue of the currency was an

:20:34.:20:38.

issue, he is well placed to judge the complexities of this argument.

:20:39.:20:47.

Quebec. We are told he is giving a speech, which will be playing a very

:20:48.:20:52.

big in the politics of Scotland in the next few months. One of the

:20:53.:20:58.

messages will be, a successful currency coming out of the economic

:20:59.:21:03.

European monetary union, is it does involve ceding some national

:21:04.:21:06.

sovereignty which is a difficult issue for the Scottish Nationalists

:21:07.:21:11.

who want Scotland to regain total national sovereignty. Then say as

:21:12.:21:17.

part of a national union we will give back some of our national

:21:18.:21:20.

sovereignty. Exactly, the question whether Britain should join the

:21:21.:21:25.

national sovereignty, then we would give some power over our interest

:21:26.:21:30.

rates, and fiscal spending to Brussels. Of course, if you are

:21:31.:21:37.

going to say, a bank in England, a bank in London will set your

:21:38.:21:40.

interest rates, the Scottish might think it is not really governing

:21:41.:21:47.

yourselves at home. We shall see. Let's return to the issue of Syria.

:21:48.:21:52.

So the government has announced that Britain will take in some of the

:21:53.:21:56.

most vulnerable refugees fleeing from the Syrian conflict. But as the

:21:57.:21:59.

death toll tops 100,000 should we be intervening more directly? In our

:22:00.:22:03.

Soapbox this week, Sunny Hundal, founder of the left wing Liberal

:22:04.:22:06.

Conspiracy blog argues that it is time to contemplate taking military

:22:07.:22:09.

action. His report contains images that some viewers may find

:22:10.:22:10.

upsetting. More disturbing pictures from Syria.

:22:11.:22:37.

Most are too upsetting to show. These are amongst 55,000 images

:22:38.:22:44.

smuggled out of the country showing systematic murder by the government.

:22:45.:22:48.

It is compared to what happened in that see Germany. I think the time

:22:49.:22:52.

has come to discuss military intervention. Not only has the

:22:53.:22:55.

bloodshed. Worse and has the potential to get worse, the conflict

:22:56.:23:02.

is spreading elsewhere. The two main arguments against intervention is we

:23:03.:23:05.

could aggravate the situation or, it is their mess and we should not get

:23:06.:23:09.

involved. Both arguments are redundant. Syrian rebels forced to

:23:10.:23:16.

recruit Al-Qaeda groups, who are not interested in freedom but want to

:23:17.:23:20.

establish a permanent base away from Afghanistan. They want to share a

:23:21.:23:26.

state in both Syria and Iraq before other Middle Eastern countries are

:23:27.:23:30.

absorbed. If they get the upper hand they will use that new base to

:23:31.:23:34.

launch audacious attacks in Islamic countries and the West. The

:23:35.:23:38.

humanitarian crisis gets worse every day. Over 100,000 people have died

:23:39.:23:45.

since this conflict began and nearly 10 million people have been driven

:23:46.:23:47.

away from their homes. More worryingly, the civil war in Syria

:23:48.:23:52.

is spreading to nearby countries like Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and

:23:53.:23:57.

Pakistan. As they get drawn in further, thousands more will die and

:23:58.:24:03.

millions more will become refugees. We cannot sit by and watch another

:24:04.:24:06.

Rwanda take Les. Despite peace talks there is no viable, diplomatic

:24:07.:24:11.

solution. And Bashar al-Assad will not lead because Russia and Iran are

:24:12.:24:17.

backing him. Al-Qaeda groups will not simply disappear. I am not

:24:18.:24:21.

saying the UK and the USA act alone. They can work with NATO, and other

:24:22.:24:30.

groups in the region. But Syria will become a danger. Intervention is not

:24:31.:24:38.

a matter of if, but when. If we wait the cost of human lives is likely to

:24:39.:24:43.

be much, much higher. Very moving.

:24:44.:24:48.

And Sunny Hundal joins us now. You are arguing in favour of

:24:49.:24:52.

intervention, have you always been in favour of intervention in this

:24:53.:24:56.

conflict? Yes, in Syria. I was against the war in Iraq, but I have

:24:57.:25:00.

said we have got to do something about Syria because it will become a

:25:01.:25:06.

much broader civil war, draw in other countries and become an

:25:07.:25:09.

intractable conflict that will draw us in sooner or later. What was your

:25:10.:25:14.

reaction when the British Parliament had its say and voted against some

:25:15.:25:18.

sort of incident -- intervention? I don't think that was right. The US

:25:19.:25:23.

government had not explained what their plan was. Their focus was just

:25:24.:25:28.

on chemical weapons. I wanted a broader intervention. We hadn't even

:25:29.:25:34.

explain to the public until what the vote was for and why we would go in.

:25:35.:25:42.

At that time I said it was right to have a pause, but not just take it

:25:43.:25:46.

off the table entirely. The problem is, the Conservative government

:25:47.:25:51.

said, we will not do anything about this now. We have taken the option

:25:52.:25:54.

of the table and Labour have followed them. It is the wrong thing

:25:55.:25:58.

to do because it sends out a signal saying the UK Government will not

:25:59.:26:03.

get involved, so resident is sad can do what he wants. What sort of input

:26:04.:26:10.

-- intervention do you envisage? The Arab League is calling on us to do

:26:11.:26:15.

more of an intervention. There have been two cease-fires, 2011 and 2012,

:26:16.:26:20.

which fell apart and the massacres followed after that. The Arab League

:26:21.:26:27.

has been saying for a while, gets a military firepower. What we need is

:26:28.:26:32.

a no-fly zone. We need to be much stronger on President Assad in

:26:33.:26:38.

saying he has to leave. There is no way he will leave, he has been

:26:39.:26:44.

backed to the hilt. Who or what would replace President Assad? I

:26:45.:26:49.

think this Syrian people should make that choice. Don't you have to make

:26:50.:26:53.

that a thought. The argument people by many in Iraq was the lack of

:26:54.:26:56.

planning and what would happen afterwards. Do you not have to think

:26:57.:27:01.

through a strategy after President Assad? Yes, but we need to get the

:27:02.:27:07.

local people involved, get the surrounding countries involved. So

:27:08.:27:11.

it is not just the UK and the US intervening. You get the local

:27:12.:27:17.

countries involved, the Arab League have a peacekeeping force, get some

:27:18.:27:20.

stabilisation and then we can have peaceful elections. The UN has

:27:21.:27:27.

accused the opposition, and the opposition is broad in that sense,

:27:28.:27:31.

of war crimes. Last week, so quite recent. Are they any better? There

:27:32.:27:40.

is a danger of lumping the opposition in one block. There is

:27:41.:27:45.

lots of groups. Al-Qaeda affiliated groups are starting to get the upper

:27:46.:27:50.

hand. These groups have come in and said, we are not interested in just

:27:51.:27:57.

getting rid of President Assad, we want to establish ourselves in Syria

:27:58.:28:00.

and Iraq and have a conflict in Lebanon and other places. They are

:28:01.:28:05.

part of the problem. I don't think we should work with them. If we

:28:06.:28:12.

don't help the Syrian rebels, the moderate rebels, they will lose

:28:13.:28:15.

out. The only option we have is between President Assad and

:28:16.:28:17.

Al-Qaeda, which is the worst solution. We are running out of

:28:18.:28:21.

time. But we have to pick the winner of

:28:22.:28:23.

our competition. Very nice part of the world. That is

:28:24.:28:37.

it for today, thank you to our guests. The one o'clock News is

:28:38.:28:45.

starting on BBC One. We will be back tomorrow with the big elliptical

:28:46.:28:51.

stories of the day. Make sure you join me here. From all

:28:52.:28:55.

of us, goodbye.

:28:56.:29:00.

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