09/02/2017 Daily Politics


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09/02/2017

Jo Coburn and Andrew Neil are joined by guests including writer and broadcaster Gyles Brandreth to discuss refugee children, social care, Brexit and bin collections.


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MPs have voted overwhelmingly to give the prime minister the power

:00:37.:00:56.

to trigger Britain's withdrawal from the European Union.

:00:57.:01:01.

It's now over to the Lords, but so far the bill has caused more

:01:02.:01:04.

problems for Jeremy Corbyn than Theresa May.

:01:05.:01:06.

This morning, MPs are crying foul over moves to end the Dubs

:01:07.:01:10.

scheme for child refugees, while the government

:01:11.:01:11.

Surrey Council insists ministers didn't cut a special deal

:01:12.:01:17.

to persuade it to call off a referendum on council tax.

:01:18.:01:21.

So just why did local Conservatives change their mind?

:01:22.:01:27.

And Surrey's council leader isn't the first politician to send

:01:28.:01:29.

All that in the next hour and we're joined

:01:30.:01:46.

Reading Giles' CV would take us up to the one o'clock news,

:01:47.:01:50.

but as well as being a writer and broadcaster he's also

:01:51.:01:53.

a former Conservative MP, and he once held the record

:01:54.:01:55.

for the world's longest after-dinner speech -

:01:56.:01:57.

which makes him perfectly qualified for this show.

:01:58.:01:59.

First today, it was a big moment in the House of Commons last night,

:02:00.:02:07.

as MPs voted by 4-1 to back the EU notification

:02:08.:02:12.

of Withdrawal Bill, which gives the Prime Minister the authority

:02:13.:02:14.

It survived the Commons unamended, and now moves onto the Lords.

:02:15.:02:25.

Lifelong Eurosceptics were cock-a-hoop at the result,

:02:26.:02:27.

Let's have a listen to Scottish National Party breaking into song.

:02:28.:02:36.

Miss Gibson, it's very good to hold a choir,

:02:37.:03:04.

but what I would say is, I personally don't mind singing,

:03:05.:03:07.

but I certainly can't allow it in the chamber.

:03:08.:03:13.

The Deputy Speaker getting a little angry. The tune was not Flower Of

:03:14.:03:20.

Scotland. For those of you who couldn't name

:03:21.:03:21.

the tune, it was Beethoven's Ode to Joy, which the EU has adopted

:03:22.:03:24.

as its anthem. We did ask the SNP on this morning

:03:25.:03:29.

but no-one was available. I think they were at choir practice.

:03:30.:03:41.

Giles will sing it instead. What did you make of it? I did not

:03:42.:03:48.

make much of it but given the Speaker's less stuffy House of

:03:49.:03:54.

Commons, a bit of band standing on the part of the Scottish

:03:55.:03:58.

Nationalists. Not happy, but once you begin to let anything go, when

:03:59.:04:04.

applause and cheering is allowed, it is difficult to contain other people

:04:05.:04:08.

when they are doing their thing. Anarchy could be breaking out.

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Not in the Palace of Westminster! It was sedate. And during a division

:04:17.:04:22.

by the look of it so the house was momentarily suspended, voting was

:04:23.:04:25.

going on and there seemed to be a nice choir mistress conducting. And

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the sinking sotto voce. That comes next!

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Is it a rule not to break into song? It is not Parliamentary to sing,

:04:44.:04:48.

speak in other languages, to applaud and these things still happen. I was

:04:49.:04:56.

trying to remember when Labour MPs once broke into the Red Flag. I

:04:57.:05:02.

cannot remember. No doubt Twitter will remember.

:05:03.:05:05.

And you can announce it later. That is not the quiz.

:05:06.:05:07.

We'll be returning to last night's vote a little later in the show,

:05:08.:05:10.

but now let's turn to this morning in the Commons, where

:05:11.:05:13.

the government has been asked about its announcement,

:05:14.:05:15.

made in the fifth paragraph of a written statement published

:05:16.:05:17.

after Prime Minister's Questions, that the so-called 'Dubs'

:05:18.:05:19.

scheme to take in child refugees is to finish,

:05:20.:05:23.

having helped just 350 children - far short of the thousands

:05:24.:05:26.

We will transfer the specified number of 350 children,

:05:27.:05:33.

pursuant to that section, who reasonably meet the intention

:05:34.:05:36.

This number includes over 200 children already

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transferred under section 67, from France, and I want

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to be absolutely clear, the scheme is not closed.

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Where does it say in the Hansard debate that I have here

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from our debates on the Dubs amendment that we will only help

:05:55.:05:57.

Where does it say that instead of the 3,000

:05:58.:06:01.

that Parliament debated, we will only help the

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Where does it say that when we get the chance, we will somehow

:06:04.:06:09.

It doesn't, because we didn't say that at the time.

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Labour's Yvette Cooper. Giles, do you agree with Lord Dubs who put

:06:19.:06:26.

forward the amendment, himself a child refugee from Nazi Germany,

:06:27.:06:32.

that this is a shabby move? It looks like it. I am a fan of Lord Dubs. He

:06:33.:06:40.

came over as a refugee. A lifetime of public service and secured a

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great success, persuading the government of the day to change its

:06:44.:06:49.

mind and introduce what is known as the Dubs amendment, allowing quite a

:06:50.:06:54.

small number of children who do not have people to look after them to

:06:55.:06:59.

come into this country, up to 2000 and taken care of by local

:07:00.:07:03.

authorities. It is not asking a lot. We are still a prosperous country

:07:04.:07:07.

and we should be a generous country and we should be seen to be doing

:07:08.:07:11.

the right thing by these children. It looks disappointing. Lord Dubs

:07:12.:07:18.

was surprised. There was not a time limit on this amendment. There was

:07:19.:07:24.

no specific number but calls for 3000, 3500 children to be brought in

:07:25.:07:30.

Rather than 300 and 50. Timing is interesting in the midst of debate

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and discussion over Brexit. You think this was an attempt to try to

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drop the scheme? Buried the news in paragraph 40 seven. You said it.

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Possibly. I don't know. It seems unnecessary. Such a small thing in

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the great scope of things to be seen to be generous and open. Such a

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triumph. They got brownie points agreeing to the amendment. We were

:07:57.:08:05.

at the Oldie awards. They were honoured for the work they had done

:08:06.:08:09.

on refugees, everybody cheered cross-party, even David Cameron. His

:08:10.:08:14.

government allowed the amendment to take place. It is disappointing the

:08:15.:08:19.

way it is perceived. It looks like the government is tracking. They say

:08:20.:08:24.

it is not being stopped. Don't worry, we are adjusting things as we

:08:25.:08:29.

go along and hopefully Dubs will rule.

:08:30.:08:31.

The question for today is all about a debate

:08:32.:08:34.

in the Lords yesterday, when peers were discussing

:08:35.:08:36.

the shortage of vegetables caused by bad weather on the continent.

:08:37.:08:39.

Courgettes, spinach and lettuce are all in short supply.

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But which appropriately-named peer replied for the government?

:08:44.:08:46.

What great green fingered names they have in the Lords.

:08:47.:09:00.

At the end of the show, Gyles will give

:09:01.:09:02.

The Red Flag was sang on 2006 to mark the Labour Party's founding.

:09:03.:09:19.

They sang it in 1979 when they lost the vote of confidence in Mrs

:09:20.:09:25.

Thatcher's first government and in 1976, the night Michael Heseltine

:09:26.:09:28.

grabbed the base because he was angry at Welsh MPs for singing it.

:09:29.:09:33.

The most famous was in 1945, when Labour came in with a landslide. --

:09:34.:09:41.

mace. You learn a lot on the show. Yesterday at Prime Minister's

:09:42.:09:45.

Questions, Jeremy Corbyn staged a good old-fashioned ambush,

:09:46.:09:47.

claiming to have evidence that the government had cut a deal

:09:48.:09:49.

with Surrey Council to avoid the prospect of

:09:50.:09:52.

a local tax increase. Surrey County Council,

:09:53.:09:58.

which is Conservative controlled,, had announced it would hold

:09:59.:09:59.

a referendum on raising council tax by 15% to pay for the spiralling

:10:00.:10:03.

costs of social care. To raise it by that amount you have

:10:04.:10:12.

to have a referendum. But at PMQs, the Labour leader said

:10:13.:10:15.

a text message exchange showed the council had dropped its plan

:10:16.:10:17.

after striking a "sweetheart" deal The text messages in question

:10:18.:10:20.

were sent by Conservative leader of Surrey County Council,

:10:21.:10:25.

David Hodge. It is thought they were

:10:26.:10:28.

intended for Nick King, a special adviser at the Department

:10:29.:10:30.

for Communities But instead he sent

:10:31.:10:32.

them to another Nick, believed to be Nick Forbes,

:10:33.:10:38.

the Labour leader of Newcastle In his first message,

:10:39.:10:40.

Councillor Hodge said he had been advised

:10:41.:10:46.

that the Communities Department received clarification

:10:47.:10:48.

that the numbers being talked about are "acceptable" enough

:10:49.:10:57.

for him to call off the 'R' - which we assume referred

:10:58.:11:00.

to the referendum on the tax rise. After the messages were published,

:11:01.:11:03.

Surrey's leader said there had been "no deal"

:11:04.:11:05.

with the government. But later, the Communities

:11:06.:11:09.

Department clarified that Surrey would be part of a new pilot scheme

:11:10.:11:14.

to retain 100% of the money it raises from business rates,

:11:15.:11:18.

which could in future plug It added, "All other councils

:11:19.:11:20.

will be free to apply to participate in these pilots,

:11:21.:11:26.

and the government And to discuss that we're joined

:11:27.:11:28.

by one of Surrey's Conservative MPs, Kwasi Kwarteng, and Labour's only

:11:29.:11:39.

Surrey councillor, Richard Evans. We asked the government

:11:40.:11:45.

for an interview but were told Welcome. Councillor Evans, you were

:11:46.:11:59.

at the Council budget meeting. Tell us what happened. We got there for

:12:00.:12:04.

the budget meeting be expected to start at ten o'clock and we were

:12:05.:12:08.

told there was an adjournment until 11 o'clock and then another

:12:09.:12:13.

adjournment on the budget until one o'clock when we were anticipating,

:12:14.:12:18.

even the Conservatives and Cabinet members in the Conservatives

:12:19.:12:21.

expected a vote on the 15% increase and putting it out to a referendum

:12:22.:12:26.

and then we were told by the leader, Mr Hodge, we would not need that and

:12:27.:12:32.

that he had had a promise, or he was confident he could go ahead with 5%.

:12:33.:12:37.

This was a shock to everyone. When you went to the meeting, the

:12:38.:12:42.

universal expectation was you would vote essentially for a 15% increase,

:12:43.:12:48.

which could only happen with a referendum? Absolutely. The fact it

:12:49.:12:54.

was cut to 4.9%, I think, for which you do not need a referendum, was a

:12:55.:13:00.

surprise? A total surprise, to even the Conservative cabinet members. In

:13:01.:13:06.

your view, was a deal done? Something must have been done. For

:13:07.:13:12.

months, the leader of the council told us there was no alternative, he

:13:13.:13:15.

had spoken to government about the funding needed in Surrey and the

:13:16.:13:22.

funding for adult social care has been cut and the budget would not

:13:23.:13:25.

add up without the 15% rise in council tax. I think they got wind

:13:26.:13:29.

they would lose the referendum. Which is probably they would have

:13:30.:13:35.

done? There was no evidence people would vote for it. Most thought they

:13:36.:13:41.

would lose by 75%. Did he indicate he had assurances from anybody that

:13:42.:13:47.

with 5%, to round it up, that he could fill the gap? No, he did not

:13:48.:13:55.

give that assurance. We had been asking for details and information

:13:56.:13:58.

and it has been clouded in mystery and secrecy. Cloak and dagger stuff.

:13:59.:14:02.

He kept the council in the dark on this. What happened? I have no idea.

:14:03.:14:10.

You are a Tory MP. I do know, but I do not run the county council nor do

:14:11.:14:14.

I have a seat on that county council but I know there was a lot of local

:14:15.:14:20.

activists. The party was upset about a referendum and huge pressure was

:14:21.:14:26.

applied to David Hodge from my constituency in Spelthorne but our

:14:27.:14:29.

chairman, volunteers in the county, and we did not want a referendum. We

:14:30.:14:35.

did not go into politics as conservatives to raise taxes by 15%.

:14:36.:14:40.

There are ten Conservative MPs in Surrey. I think there are 11. You

:14:41.:14:46.

could say 12 and I would not be surprised. Five in government,

:14:47.:14:50.

including the Chancellor, Health Secretary, you are an MP. This was a

:14:51.:14:55.

huge interest to the Conservative Party in the county, there must've

:14:56.:14:59.

been involvement by MPs at the prospect of a Conservative council

:15:00.:15:03.

proposing a referendum on a 50% increase? We upset about it. We

:15:04.:15:10.

tried to use persuasion. The referendum is not happening. Neither

:15:11.:15:15.

is the 15% increase. We managed to exert moral pressure, if you like,

:15:16.:15:19.

persuasion to call off the referendum and it was a decision be

:15:20.:15:22.

county council and particularly David Hodge made. -- 15%. The deals

:15:23.:15:28.

they say has been done is that you will be part of a pilot that gets to

:15:29.:15:33.

keep the business tax to see what happens. That does not come in until

:15:34.:15:39.

2018, and I understand you've missed the first round. It is one year

:15:40.:15:45.

away. How will you fill the gap? You mentioned 4.9% of the other thing

:15:46.:15:47.

you have failed to mention was... Well, I did mention it. You cut me

:15:48.:16:03.

off. The manifesto is very clear. They are keen that they retain the

:16:04.:16:08.

business rates is that is a huge business in Surrey and a huge

:16:09.:16:13.

generator of revenue, and that will help the shortfall in revenue. Do we

:16:14.:16:21.

know how much? Sorry kept 41 million of the local rate revenue and the

:16:22.:16:25.

social care bill was 516 million, so how do we fill the gap? -- sorry. We

:16:26.:16:33.

have a 5% increase, and we all know this because it was made clear,

:16:34.:16:38.

there might well have to be some reductions in expenditure that is

:16:39.:16:45.

how you the budget, typically. Can the holding onto a bigger chunk of

:16:46.:16:48.

the business rate make much of a difference? There is business in

:16:49.:16:56.

Surrey. Prosperous business? Yes, prosperous business but it's not a

:16:57.:16:59.

solution for this year, starting at the beginning of April. When I've

:17:00.:17:03.

asked for information, this is what I got back from the leader of the

:17:04.:17:10.

council. A lot of black lines. This letter was sent to all the MPs and I

:17:11.:17:13.

was asking for details of what was going on and it has been redacted.

:17:14.:17:21.

Are they national secrets in this? I don't know. It's only from the

:17:22.:17:25.

leader of the council. Is there a D notice on this? What could he be

:17:26.:17:31.

saying to Surrey MPs that he won't say to the council? Tell me about

:17:32.:17:37.

the government code of transparency. This is David Hodge and I'm not here

:17:38.:17:42.

to answer for him. I have read it and from my recollection there was

:17:43.:17:50.

nothing to -- to sensational. Redacting is when councils are

:17:51.:17:53.

asking what is going on means there is no openness. How can we vote on a

:17:54.:17:58.

budget if we opt not given the information? My understanding was it

:17:59.:18:01.

was a full debate and a lot of the numbers were transparent. The debate

:18:02.:18:06.

had been built up for 15% and you said you'd like it, but the council

:18:07.:18:10.

proposed that that is what the budget figure was, and on the last

:18:11.:18:13.

minute on the basis of text messages being sent by the leader of the

:18:14.:18:17.

council we were told it would be all right and we could get away with

:18:18.:18:22.

just 5%. It is no way to run council. It is a shambles. According

:18:23.:18:27.

to the Council finance director, Surrey will have to find an

:18:28.:18:33.

additional ?30 million of cuts in this financial year -- 13 millions.

:18:34.:18:41.

-- 30 million. It is a large amount but in the overall context of the

:18:42.:18:45.

budget, they will have to find it. It's already lost 170 million in

:18:46.:18:49.

central government funding. You will appreciate over the last four or

:18:50.:18:52.

five years there has been the squeeze on the national budget and

:18:53.:18:56.

it has affected councils up and down the country. Every council in the

:18:57.:19:00.

country has to face the degree of financial pressure and Surrey are

:19:01.:19:04.

doing this as well as anyone. We know there has been a squeeze on

:19:05.:19:07.

budgets and the government felt they had to reduce the deficit. We know

:19:08.:19:11.

all that. But it was a political decision to do that by taking 4.6

:19:12.:19:17.

billion out of the social care system. That was a political

:19:18.:19:20.

decision by your government at a time of rising demographics amongst

:19:21.:19:29.

retired people and more social care was needed, and you took that

:19:30.:19:33.

political decision, and that is surely why even prosperous places

:19:34.:19:38.

like Surrey are in deep trouble. You are right. The country has

:19:39.:19:44.

demographic challenges, as you describe. The question was whether

:19:45.:19:49.

that commitment should be met at a national level from the national

:19:50.:19:54.

exchequer or at the local and county council level and they should take

:19:55.:19:59.

the strain. That was a political decision. This is in line with the

:20:00.:20:03.

policy of trying to devolve responsibility in terms of budget,

:20:04.:20:08.

devolving power means taking more responsibility. You have devolve the

:20:09.:20:14.

problem and cut the budget by 4.6 billion and said over to you -- you

:20:15.:20:19.

have devolved the problem. You chose some of the most vulnerable people

:20:20.:20:23.

to be affected by this. There wasn't an argument that at some stage the

:20:24.:20:29.

deficit had to be brought down, but you chose to do it in a way that

:20:30.:20:33.

hits some of the oldest and most vulnerable people in society. I

:20:34.:20:36.

disagree with that. What we were trying to do was to say that the

:20:37.:20:43.

responsibility for adult social care should be devolved down to the

:20:44.:20:46.

county councils. If the government had spent the money there wasn't

:20:47.:20:49.

going to be any more money, the government would have made the

:20:50.:20:53.

reductions. I think it was perfectly reasonable to say that local

:20:54.:20:57.

councils were best placed to decide how to spend this reduced amount of

:20:58.:21:02.

money. Where is the situation now? Let's assume that council tax will

:21:03.:21:10.

go up by 5% and not 15% and there will be something done on business

:21:11.:21:14.

rates coming in in 18 months' time or so. What is the situation between

:21:15.:21:19.

now and then as far as you can tell? There is a big gap in the budget

:21:20.:21:23.

because unless there is some sort of secret deal being done between

:21:24.:21:27.

Surrey and the government to fill the gap there will be a big hole in

:21:28.:21:33.

the finances of Surrey because one minute it was 15% are now it is 5%.

:21:34.:21:37.

It's no good saying that adult social care should be funded by

:21:38.:21:40.

local councils. Everybody recognises that this is a central government

:21:41.:21:44.

responsibility. Adult social care funding will increase as people get

:21:45.:21:49.

older, more people, particularly in Surrey and it has to be a national

:21:50.:21:53.

government responsibility. It strikes me there are two things on

:21:54.:21:59.

this. One is the natural journalistic suspicion that thinks,

:22:00.:22:04.

here is a Tory heartland, Tory council, only one Labour MP on the

:22:05.:22:14.

council. He didn't come on. I am sorry that our guest of the day is

:22:15.:22:19.

so rude to our guests. Let me finish the question. And it is dealing with

:22:20.:22:24.

a Tory government, the Chancellor and the Health Secretary come from

:22:25.:22:31.

this county area, distinguished backbenchers like our other guests

:22:32.:22:35.

here today. That is one thing. That is one thing, but even if keeping

:22:36.:22:39.

more business rates was a solution for Surrey, that is because Surrey

:22:40.:22:44.

has lots of businesses. There are other parts of the country where

:22:45.:22:47.

they don't have that many businesses and this is not a route that helps

:22:48.:22:51.

the social care fund. There is a double tension here. Going back 25

:22:52.:22:56.

years when I was an MP, I recall the same conflict between local

:22:57.:22:59.

government and national government. There is nothing new in this.

:23:00.:23:02.

Essentially the people at County Hall thinks they can do think better

:23:03.:23:06.

than the national government and the national government knows it can do

:23:07.:23:09.

things better than at county level. So there is always this tension. It

:23:10.:23:15.

goes back literally decades. The new dilemma, of course, is that we now

:23:16.:23:20.

believe in localism so we are heaving no authority and power and

:23:21.:23:25.

more money to people we don't always really believe can do the job as

:23:26.:23:31.

properly. And problems as well. Now there is a big national problem

:23:32.:23:35.

about this. Let's devolve and see what happens. OK, we have run out of

:23:36.:23:40.

time. An interesting subject, and thanks for both of you. You didn't

:23:41.:23:43.

have to talk about Brexit. Don't worry, we're going to now. After

:23:44.:23:50.

that brief interlude we turn back to Brexit.

:23:51.:23:51.

Now let's turn back last night's Brexit vote,

:23:52.:23:53.

as MPs finished three days debating a piece of legislation

:23:54.:23:55.

which looks certain to end up in the history books.

:23:56.:23:58.

The debate has been at times tetchy, at times it's repeated

:23:59.:24:00.

well-rehearsed arguments, but it's always been passionate.

:24:01.:24:02.

Here's a look back at just some of the moments that

:24:03.:24:05.

This House has spoken and now is not the time to obstruct

:24:06.:24:13.

the democratically expressed wishes of the British people.

:24:14.:24:17.

The Supreme Court was right to make clear that Parliament should exert

:24:18.:24:20.

That influence should be felt at the start, throughout,

:24:21.:24:26.

and, most importantly, at the end of the formal

:24:27.:24:28.

Does he really think that in a negotiation,

:24:29.:24:36.

many months, and be extraordinarily complicated, is it in the best

:24:37.:24:42.

interests of the United Kingdom to have to reveal their hand

:24:43.:24:44.

All of this will have an impact on the devolution process,

:24:45.:25:04.

be it in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

:25:05.:25:07.

If ministers respect the devolution process,

:25:08.:25:08.

then they should have no problem with the additional scrutiny

:25:09.:25:11.

Isn't the truth that she knows, we know, the whole House knows,

:25:12.:25:18.

that the Scottish National Party have no interest and no desire

:25:19.:25:21.

She knew that before tabling this amendment,

:25:22.:25:26.

so members on this side of the House will be asking, surely this is just

:25:27.:25:29.

It's quite clear that the honourable lady had not resumed her seat.

:25:30.:25:34.

Being in the chair accords you many privileges,

:25:35.:25:36.

but you cannot reinterpret the wishes of the honourable

:25:37.:25:42.

I can confirm that the government will bring forward a motion

:25:43.:26:04.

on the final agreement to be approved by both Houses

:26:05.:26:08.

of Parliament before it is concluded, and we expect and intend

:26:09.:26:11.

that this will happen before the European Parliament debates

:26:12.:26:13.

and votes on the final agreement.

:26:14.:26:20.

That is a huge and very important concession about the process

:26:21.:26:23.

What the House wants is the opportunity to send

:26:24.:26:30.

the government back to our EU partners to negotiate a deal,

:26:31.:26:33.

That is exactly the vote we had on second reading of this Bill.

:26:34.:26:42.

If you are at all worried about leaving the EU,

:26:43.:26:44.

you should clearly not have voted for this Bill on second reading.

:26:45.:26:47.

That is the point of the irrevocable debate.

:26:48.:26:51.

I feel sometimes I am sitting along with colleagues who are like jihadis

:26:52.:26:54.

We ought not to trigger Article 50 until we have given some sort

:26:55.:27:20.

of assurance to EU nationals living in the United Kingdom

:27:21.:27:23.

The quicker we get this Bill on the statute book,

:27:24.:27:29.

the quicker we get Article 50 triggered, the quicker we can get

:27:30.:27:32.

that arrangement in place and reassure EU nationals in Britain

:27:33.:27:34.

I will not be voting with the opposition.

:27:35.:27:41.

I am very content with the government's current

:27:42.:27:43.

I urge all honourable and right honourable members who have tabled

:27:44.:27:51.

amendments now to withdraw them, so that we can progress the Bill,

:27:52.:27:53.

start the process of withdrawal and work to deliver a deal that

:27:54.:27:58.

respects the vote of the British people in the referendum.

:27:59.:28:01.

We're joined now by the shadow international trade

:28:02.:28:22.

Welcome back. The government celebrating, and no wonder. Labour

:28:23.:28:34.

put down 120 amendments, none of them were passed and you failed to

:28:35.:28:38.

extract any concession from the government. If you look back three

:28:39.:28:42.

or four months, at that time, we were saying that we wanted a vote in

:28:43.:28:48.

parliament, we wanted a white Paper, we wanted clarity on the final

:28:49.:28:52.

negotiated agreement and a vote on that. So, actually, over that period

:28:53.:28:58.

the government moved and conceded those points. You're absolutely

:28:59.:29:02.

right, and what they didn't do, and I regret it, is that they did not do

:29:03.:29:06.

what the Supreme Court said should happen, which is that the people had

:29:07.:29:10.

decided we should leave in the referendum but it was for Parliament

:29:11.:29:14.

to then shape how we left. I think that was a mistake on the

:29:15.:29:18.

government's part because it would have been stronger if Parliament had

:29:19.:29:21.

felt it had the control of the process going forward. Just to argue

:29:22.:29:30.

the point about three or four months ago, Gena Miller brought a court

:29:31.:29:32.

case and that is why you got to debated in Parliament and Tory MPs

:29:33.:29:35.

also demanded a White Paper. That was conceded and Theresa May had

:29:36.:29:38.

already promised to have a vote on the actual deal done. I ask you

:29:39.:29:41.

again, what did Labour actually extract from the government? I don't

:29:42.:29:47.

think that is a fair analysis of what was going on. What happened in

:29:48.:29:52.

the last three days? The government have conceded nothing and that is

:29:53.:29:55.

the problem of being in opposition, you don't have the votes because you

:29:56.:29:59.

are not in government. It's hardly surprising that if the government is

:30:00.:30:03.

obdurate and the government is not trying to reconcile the whole of the

:30:04.:30:07.

country and bring it back together and simply says, no, we will do it

:30:08.:30:11.

our way, no matter what anyone says then of course that is what happens.

:30:12.:30:14.

What did Jeremy Corbyn mean by tweeting that the real fun -- fight

:30:15.:30:20.

starts now? What do you does he mean? You have a great repeal Bill

:30:21.:30:26.

Cumming and there are hundreds of pieces of legislation that need to

:30:27.:30:30.

go through Parliament -- and we will scrutinise them and make sure that

:30:31.:30:35.

the government cannot simply take us into the sort of deregulated

:30:36.:30:36.

offshore tax haven that many of us You said if the government wants to

:30:37.:30:47.

do that you as the opposition cannot stop them. What can you change, what

:30:48.:30:52.

will you do in terms of effecting change in the government as the

:30:53.:30:56.

Labour opposition that you have not been able to do up till now? We are

:30:57.:31:01.

a Parliamentary democracy and we have to speak out when we believe

:31:02.:31:04.

what the government is doing is not in the best interests of the British

:31:05.:31:09.

people. That is what we have done and will continue to do. You are

:31:10.:31:15.

right, on our own, we cannot win the vote. I hope there may be members of

:31:16.:31:20.

the Conservative Party who will see the rationality of some things we

:31:21.:31:24.

are putting forward and who will then choose in their conscience to

:31:25.:31:29.

vote with us. I am not sure it will be the case, because clearly the

:31:30.:31:35.

government has the numbers. Diane Abbott, Shadow Home Secretary,

:31:36.:31:38.

tweeted Tory Brexit will be a disaster and voted for it. There are

:31:39.:31:48.

two competing principles. One, and I also believe leaving the EU is

:31:49.:31:52.

really going to be potentially disastrous for the British economy,

:31:53.:31:59.

but... Wide not vote against it? Because of the principle of

:32:00.:32:03.

respecting democracy in a referendum and the British people have been

:32:04.:32:07.

given the opportunity to vote. It ill behoves politicians to say we

:32:08.:32:13.

know better than you do, you are ignorant about these matters, we

:32:14.:32:18.

understand the economy, we understand World Trade Organisation

:32:19.:32:22.

rules, get back in your box, we will do it our way. If I were on the

:32:23.:32:27.

winning side of the referendum and the government said, we know you

:32:28.:32:31.

won, but we will ignore that, I would have been furious. My best

:32:32.:32:35.

judgment, which is what I owe my constituents as a member of

:32:36.:32:39.

Parliament, is that if that had happened and we turned round and

:32:40.:32:44.

refuse to accept the will of the people, people would have been

:32:45.:32:47.

outraged and we may have seen an upsurge in hatred and violence. That

:32:48.:32:52.

is a passionate defence of what you did. Why did you fail to persuade

:32:53.:32:58.

Clive Lewis, a member of the Shadow Cabinet, and 49 others to vote the

:32:59.:33:05.

same way? I regret that. I know that Clive wrestled with that and

:33:06.:33:08.

accepted the Democratic principle on the second reading. By the third

:33:09.:33:14.

reading he felt we should have been able to move the government forward,

:33:15.:33:19.

that is what he wanted to do. He respected democracy by voting for a

:33:20.:33:26.

second reading. It then went through without a single amendment being

:33:27.:33:30.

accepted by the government. They were intransigent. At that point,

:33:31.:33:34.

Clive thought he could not vote for that. Life is not black and white.

:33:35.:33:41.

We have to understand members of Parliament have been wrestling with

:33:42.:33:44.

these competing principles and they have tried to do what in all honesty

:33:45.:33:48.

they believe is the best for their constituents. Do you have sympathy

:33:49.:33:55.

for Barry Gardner's arguments? What amuses me looking back on it as a

:33:56.:34:00.

former whip, is to see how successful the Conservative whipping

:34:01.:34:04.

has been, that because there are differing views on the conservative

:34:05.:34:08.

side, only three Conservatives did not vote with the government and

:34:09.:34:13.

about 50 Labour MPs voted against the three line whip imposed by

:34:14.:34:19.

Jeremy Corbyn. One party is much more publicly divided than the

:34:20.:34:23.

other. It must be curious for knew to be in the lobby joshing shoulders

:34:24.:34:31.

with Bill Cash. All your old friends. Did you feel tainted, or

:34:32.:34:38.

OK? I do not feel that being with people taints me. What I feel is

:34:39.:34:45.

very sad, because I feel that our country is going to become more

:34:46.:34:50.

divided. I think people will be less kind to one another as a result of

:34:51.:34:54.

this. It deeply troubles me. Parliament has embarked on a course

:34:55.:34:59.

that will not just make is poorer, but also I think we will be less

:35:00.:35:05.

kind. There is something about society that is worrying. It is

:35:06.:35:11.

alarming rhetoric. I was Remained that when the decision was made I

:35:12.:35:15.

thought we have to go along with this. My instinct is now we have to

:35:16.:35:19.

really go along with this which means supporting it and going with

:35:20.:35:22.

it and what you are trying to give us now is going along with it, yet

:35:23.:35:29.

there will be agony down the line. Barry Gardner, is that why you

:35:30.:35:34.

called for Labour MPs to abstain? Did you call for that? I never

:35:35.:35:37.

discuss what we say at Shadow Cabinet. Did you call for an upsurge

:35:38.:35:48.

in? -- and abstention. I do not discuss what we say in Shadow

:35:49.:35:51.

Cabinet so we have a full and frank discussion. I understand exactly

:35:52.:35:57.

what you are saying about now we have to go with it, which is why I

:35:58.:36:02.

voted for it, but we need to try to shape it in the right way, so that

:36:03.:36:08.

the 48% of the population who felt it was wrong, do not feel

:36:09.:36:12.

marginalised. That is why I think Jeremy said the fight Naz starts, on

:36:13.:36:17.

individual pieces of legislation. We have to ensure we shape it in the

:36:18.:36:26.

best way -- the fight now starts. There is no renegotiation on offer.

:36:27.:36:31.

It is as it was promised, a vote on the deal or you fall on to WTO

:36:32.:36:35.

rules. You do not think any more than I that is a real choice the

:36:36.:36:40.

government is offering. I am not commenting on choice, I am asking

:36:41.:36:47.

the concession. Precisely what I am saying is the government is trying

:36:48.:36:52.

to pretend it is giving Parliament a choice when it is not. That is

:36:53.:36:58.

dishonest. The way they have dealt with the amendments during the past

:36:59.:37:01.

three days has been equally dishonest. When can we expect a

:37:02.:37:09.

reshuffle? That is a matter above my pay rate. It cannot be above your

:37:10.:37:12.

pay grade, you are in the Shadow Cabinet! Jeremy Corbyn dismissed

:37:13.:37:20.

rumours about setting a date on his departure. Saying it was fake news.

:37:21.:37:26.

Have people discussed it? Can you rule out there was any discussion

:37:27.:37:30.

about a date on his departure? I can tell you for certain, I have not

:37:31.:37:34.

been party to those discussions, I know nothing about them. There have

:37:35.:37:39.

been rumours, they have been in the press, but as far as my first-hand

:37:40.:37:43.

knowledge is concerned, absolutely not. Jeremy Corbyn said he did not

:37:44.:37:48.

want Donald Trump to be allowed into the UK. I Shadow trade Secretary, is

:37:49.:37:54.

that wise? We have to have good relations with America. We have to

:37:55.:37:59.

ensure we have a good trade relationship with America. Including

:38:00.:38:04.

getting him into the country? As many people think, I think President

:38:05.:38:10.

Trump's remarks have been thoroughly objectionable, and his policies,

:38:11.:38:14.

what he's doing in terms of refugees... Should he be allowed

:38:15.:38:18.

into the country? Of course he should be allowed in. What honours

:38:19.:38:23.

he is allowed when he is here is different. Jeremy Corbyn said he

:38:24.:38:26.

should not be allowed in, you disagree with him on that.

:38:27.:38:27.

And while we're talking about Brexit, in recent weeks

:38:28.:38:30.

you may have noticed we've been trying to make sense

:38:31.:38:32.

of some of the words, phrases and acronyms that

:38:33.:38:34.

politicians use when talking about our exit from the EU.

:38:35.:38:37.

Many of them we don't even understand -

:38:38.:38:38.

Here's our Adam with his third and final guide

:38:39.:38:45.

Here's what you need to know to understand the script.

:38:46.:38:54.

It stands for Department for Exiting the European Union,

:38:55.:39:01.

headed by the Brexit Secretary, David Davis.

:39:02.:39:05.

300-plus staff examining the Brexit effect on 50 different sectors of

:39:06.:39:08.

the economy, while preparing the UK's negotiating position.

:39:09.:39:14.

Article 50 sets out the process for a

:39:15.:39:17.

Except it doesn't, it's just an outline of the process

:39:18.:39:22.

And it says it all has to happen in a two-year period.

:39:23.:39:28.

And if you're interested, Article 49 is the process

:39:29.:39:31.

A transitional period is a sort of halfway house between the UK

:39:32.:39:39.

finalising its departure and realising its full post-Brexit

:39:40.:39:41.

It's a way of buying a bit more time to sort out particularly

:39:42.:39:49.

complicated aspects of our membership.

:39:50.:39:51.

Remain campaigners like it because it's not really like

:39:52.:39:54.

Leave campaigners don't like it because it's not really like

:39:55.:39:57.

Theresa May wants the UK to have free trade agreements with the

:39:58.:40:07.

EU and other countries around the world post-Brexit.

:40:08.:40:15.

They are bespoke deals to reduce the barriers to

:40:16.:40:17.

and recognising each other's regulations.

:40:18.:40:26.

This one is my favourite, because it's amazingly

:40:27.:40:28.

If the EU negotiates a deal that also affects policy areas that

:40:29.:40:34.

are controlled by individual member countries, then

:40:35.:40:38.

it is deemed to be a mixed agreement, which means it has

:40:39.:40:41.

usually by votes in every parliament.

:40:42.:40:47.

The Great Repeal Bill is a piece of legislation promised by

:40:48.:40:50.

the government, which will cancel the original piece of legislation

:40:51.:40:53.

that took us into the EU in the first place.

:40:54.:40:58.

It will simultaneously copy and paste EU law into British

:40:59.:41:01.

law, so that MPs can decide what measures to keep

:41:02.:41:07.

It involves something called Henry VIII powers, as well.

:41:08.:41:10.

And, trust me, that's a whole other movie.

:41:11.:41:14.

And you can find the Daily Politics guide to the Brexit process

:41:15.:41:22.

on our Twitter page, that's at 'Daily

:41:23.:41:24.

And if you aren't on Twitter then Jo will send you a copy in the post.

:41:25.:41:31.

I have been stuffing envelopes all morning. Handwritten!

:41:32.:41:33.

You pay your council tax, we assume, so at the very least

:41:34.:41:37.

you expect your local authority to empty your bins?

:41:38.:41:39.

But the time between collections in some areas has been getting

:41:40.:41:50.

longer, and a handful of areas in the UK now have to wait a month

:41:51.:41:53.

Jenny Kumah's been out on one Welsh bin round to find out more.

:41:54.:42:08.

Bin day here in Conwy in North Wales.

:42:09.:42:17.

Recyclable waste, including food, paper and glass is

:42:18.:42:19.

But a trial of three-weekly and monthly collections

:42:20.:42:22.

People can get really worked up about the issue of rubbish,

:42:23.:42:33.

especially when there are changes to bin collections,

:42:34.:42:37.

and here in Conwy, the council is one

:42:38.:42:39.

to move to a system where they will only collect general waste

:42:40.:42:44.

The council says it's not just about saving money,

:42:45.:42:49.

it's also about trying to get people to recycle more.

:42:50.:42:54.

The council says it is a success, with initial figures showing a 15%

:42:55.:43:00.

increase in recycling and a 28% drop in residual waste.

:43:01.:43:03.

But it's not clear whether it's working for everyone.

:43:04.:43:08.

There are six adults and several pets living here.

:43:09.:43:12.

They say that, by bin day, they've got so much rubbish,

:43:13.:43:15.

despite having extra bins to help them cope.

:43:16.:43:18.

We have ashes from the fire going in in the winter.

:43:19.:43:27.

Monday they will be coming to collect.

:43:28.:43:33.

There are going to be bags piled on top.

:43:34.:43:38.

We have paper, we put paper in the top.

:43:39.:43:42.

The family argue they are recycling everything they can,

:43:43.:43:46.

but Fiona admits she puts food in her black bin rather

:43:47.:43:48.

In nearby Kimnel Bay, the local councillor isn't happy

:43:49.:43:55.

that animal and some human waste products can end up in black bins

:43:56.:44:01.

for several weeks before the monthly bin day comes round.

:44:02.:44:04.

He has had numerous complaints from residents.

:44:05.:44:07.

Overflowing bins, fly-tipping and problems with seagulls

:44:08.:44:09.

Food waste is collected weekly, so there should

:44:10.:44:15.

But you will have wrappers off takeaway, things like that,

:44:16.:44:21.

so the actual smell of food odour will attract.

:44:22.:44:24.

They will go looking, because of the smell.

:44:25.:44:28.

The councillor responsible for bringing in the new service admits

:44:29.:44:32.

For example, with helping young families access the weekly

:44:33.:44:37.

But he denies there has been increased fly-tipping and vermin.

:44:38.:44:45.

He argues that if people recycle properly, monthly

:44:46.:44:47.

Landfill tax costs the taxpayer ?128 per tonne.

:44:48.:44:54.

We need to get every recycling out of every residual bin.

:44:55.:45:01.

Believe me, you will come back here in six, seven years

:45:02.:45:05.

Wales is the only UK nation to set legally binding recycling targets,

:45:06.:45:16.

and they are higher than those set by the EU.

:45:17.:45:20.

Councils can be fined if they fail to deliver.

:45:21.:45:23.

So monthly collections could become more widespread,

:45:24.:45:25.

as the drive to get people to be more green gets more intense.

:45:26.:45:36.

And we're joined now by the Conservative MP Jake Berry,

:45:37.:45:41.

who's campaigning for a return to weekly bin collections,

:45:42.:45:43.

and by the Green Party co-leader Jonathan Bartley,

:45:44.:45:45.

welcome to both of you. It would seem most residents do want to see

:45:46.:45:57.

regular bin collections. They don't want them to be scrapped. Why are

:45:58.:46:02.

they wrong? I don't think they are necessarily wrong but it is the

:46:03.:46:05.

wrong approach and we are going to tackle recycling we are facing.

:46:06.:46:10.

There has been a great increase in recycling rates, until last year,

:46:11.:46:14.

where it plateaued and now it is falling. We need better education

:46:15.:46:20.

and give clear recycling systems. In South Oxfordshire they have

:46:21.:46:23.

alternate collections, recycling and food waste and refuse the following

:46:24.:46:30.

week. There is regularity and they have a huge recycling rate. What do

:46:31.:46:34.

you say to that? I agree we should all recycle more but this is an

:46:35.:46:40.

issue in places like Lancashire or places where people have no back

:46:41.:46:44.

garden and living back-to-back terraces and have the rubbish bin

:46:45.:46:48.

under their front window for two weeks without being emptied. If you

:46:49.:46:53.

have a young baby who is going through three or four nappies a day,

:46:54.:46:57.

and you have it by your front door for two weeks, or a month, it is

:46:58.:47:01.

pretty unpleasant. On the issue of all recycling, some local

:47:02.:47:07.

authorities, including Blackbird, the original plan was to reduce the

:47:08.:47:12.

size by two thirds of the non-recyclable bin but still ended

:47:13.:47:15.

it every week and I think that is the right solution for households

:47:16.:47:21.

across the UK -- Blackbird. What is underlying this move from local

:47:22.:47:24.

authority level are cut from central government. It's not about boosting

:47:25.:47:32.

recycling. Guys, you talked about a crisis in recycling. What do you

:47:33.:47:37.

mean? We are meant to hit 50% by 2020 and we had been on the up until

:47:38.:47:42.

about two years ago and then it plateaued and now it is going down.

:47:43.:47:45.

Why do you think that is happening? Because of the cuts from central

:47:46.:47:49.

government. We look at the waist resource action plan which has been

:47:50.:47:54.

cut by 50% which means there is money not going into education and

:47:55.:47:56.

how we can develop a circular economy and used waste material as

:47:57.:48:04.

at commodity. Local authority budgets make no difference to

:48:05.:48:08.

people's ability or desire to recycle. Responsible people want to

:48:09.:48:12.

recycle. But it is a basic service that every local authority should

:48:13.:48:16.

offer, to say we should bin once a week. It's all very well for those

:48:17.:48:21.

with large gardens to talk about the bins at the end of the lawn being

:48:22.:48:24.

emptied once a month. If you live in a small house with a big family,

:48:25.:48:28.

it's frankly disgusting and unacceptable to have the bin not

:48:29.:48:32.

emptied. But with more recycling you will boost the recycling rate. Look

:48:33.:48:40.

at the budgets and say we can cut this. We see this every street,

:48:41.:48:46.

every week. They empty food waste every week so why not emptied the

:48:47.:48:50.

non-recyclable bin every week. Just give people a smaller bin but empty

:48:51.:48:57.

it once a week. Back to recycling, what are we not recycling that we

:48:58.:49:01.

should be recycling? Across the board. If you look at people's bins,

:49:02.:49:09.

60 or 70% in bins on average could be cycle -- recycle. A bottle return

:49:10.:49:13.

scheme would be a good way of addressing it. It's not just about

:49:14.:49:16.

waste collection, it's reducing the amount of waste and the amount of

:49:17.:49:20.

re-use we can heading to. The plastic bag levy, everybody said it

:49:21.:49:25.

wouldn't work and we have cut billions of plastic bags and it's

:49:26.:49:29.

worked like a dream. What about a bottle recycling scheme? But it

:49:30.:49:33.

shows if you work with people rather than punishing them they are happy

:49:34.:49:39.

to recycle. Local authorities in other areas take even more extreme

:49:40.:49:44.

steps, and if you live in a rural property they are now refusing to

:49:45.:49:47.

empty your bin unless you drag it a mile to the nearest collection

:49:48.:49:52.

point. I think the local authorities need to listen. This is a core

:49:53.:49:58.

service. You said it was nothing to do with cuts or central government

:49:59.:50:03.

money, but Eric Pickles promised a fund to restore weekly bin

:50:04.:50:06.

collections and it was quietly dropped because there wasn't enough

:50:07.:50:12.

money to fund the fund. I think, unfortunately, Eric was too little,

:50:13.:50:15.

too late. You could never say that about Eric Pickles. So many local

:50:16.:50:21.

authorities had changed to a fortnightly collection and I think

:50:22.:50:24.

people could live with fortnightly collections but it should be weekly.

:50:25.:50:29.

But going onto monthly is frankly absurd. That is going far too far.

:50:30.:50:35.

It is not absurd. The problem is that nobody likes change. That is

:50:36.:50:41.

why Eric, speaking to the people, we will always have weekly, if we could

:50:42.:50:47.

be making it work on a monthly basis, you have to cope with it. If

:50:48.:50:51.

you can't cope with change and become unhappy. There is also the

:50:52.:50:54.

question of different delivery trucks coming to pick up different

:50:55.:50:59.

types of waste all the same time, as in on the same day. That surely

:51:00.:51:05.

could be cut or modified so you did not have one coming to collect the

:51:06.:51:08.

non-recyclable bin and coming to collect and so on. There has been a

:51:09.:51:14.

lot of inefficiency in local government but good models like

:51:15.:51:18.

Germany have 62% recycling rates, and South Korea is doing better than

:51:19.:51:22.

we are in the recycling rates. They have efficient systems that are

:51:23.:51:26.

clear. One of the problems with the different systems we have with local

:51:27.:51:30.

authorities is with migrating populations you have different

:51:31.:51:34.

schemes in different borrowers. Local authorities would prefer to

:51:35.:51:38.

preserve their inefficient behaviours, sending bin lorries

:51:39.:51:41.

different descriptions to different houses on several a week. Rather

:51:42.:51:46.

than effect real change, which is to reduce the size of the bin and empty

:51:47.:51:52.

it every week, the cans and bottles, batteries, all the things you can

:51:53.:51:55.

recycle rather than take the difficult decision to say that the

:51:56.:51:58.

way that we do it is wrong. They prefer to punish their own

:51:59.:52:08.

residence. What would be wrong with doing what was suggested earlier,

:52:09.:52:12.

that one week they come along and take away the recyclable stuff, and

:52:13.:52:18.

the next week they come and take the stuff that isn't? Over time, you

:52:19.:52:23.

could move some that isn't being recycled into the recycled as you

:52:24.:52:26.

become more sophisticated. What would be wrong with that? There is

:52:27.:52:32.

nothing wrong with it per se. But if you are sending a bin lorry to

:52:33.:52:36.

people's houses every week, why not take away their non-recyclable

:52:37.:52:39.

rubbish at the same time? Could you can't do it all together. People

:52:40.:52:47.

want to know where they are. Is there something wrong with that? It

:52:48.:52:52.

is working very well in South Oxfordshire. I think it's up to 62%,

:52:53.:52:58.

the Germany level, because they have the regularity. People know where

:52:59.:53:01.

they stand. They know what to separate and they have clear food

:53:02.:53:05.

waste and recyclables. I am glad we have solved the problem. Job done.

:53:06.:53:12.

You have got your weekly. Thank you very much.

:53:13.:53:14.

Now, earlier in the show we talked about the mis-directed text messages

:53:15.:53:17.

that landed the Conservatives on Surrey County Council in hot

:53:18.:53:20.

They went recycled. But I bet they will be. -- they weren't recycled.

:53:21.:53:29.

But it's not the first time that a rogue text,

:53:30.:53:31.

e-mail or tweet has caused a political upset.

:53:32.:53:33.

It's that moment you send a text message about a certain person to

:53:34.:53:42.

someone else, but then realise you have sent it to that certain person

:53:43.:53:46.

by mistake. And you cannot press cancel quick enough. Take Lucy

:53:47.:53:52.

Powell, while chief of staff to Ed Miliband when he was Labour leader,

:53:53.:53:55.

ranted about the ludicrous nonsensical, unreal opposition of

:53:56.:54:00.

the party. It was a text message intended for a select few and it

:54:01.:54:05.

went to, well, loads of people. Then there was Labour's John Woodcock who

:54:06.:54:10.

tweeted to his 27,000 followers his hairy thoughts on one of Jeremy

:54:11.:54:15.

Corbyn's PMQ 's performances -- swearing thoughts. He meant to send

:54:16.:54:20.

it as a direct message, privately. The leader of the tweeting world,

:54:21.:54:23.

Donald Trump doesn't seem bothered about being private. When he was

:54:24.:54:27.

tweeting to his daughter, he was publicly proud. Just a shame he got

:54:28.:54:32.

the wrong woman. That was a council worker from Brighton. Sometimes

:54:33.:54:38.

blushes spared. In autumn 2007, just before the Tory conference a

:54:39.:54:41.

conservative staff member wrote an e-mail about George Osborne's plans

:54:42.:54:45.

to raise the threshold on inheritance tax and he sent it to

:54:46.:54:48.

Mike Hancock, the Liberal Democrat MP, who is a totally different

:54:49.:54:53.

person to Matt Hancock, George Osborne's chief of staff and who the

:54:54.:55:03.

e-mail was presumably meant for. If leaked, it would have probably

:55:04.:55:05.

persuaded Gordon Brown to call an early election that the Tories

:55:06.:55:08.

didn't want to have. But the Lib Dem Mr Hancock replied to the sender,

:55:09.:55:10.

simply saying, I think this is yours, and he kept Shrum. How very

:55:11.:55:15.

honourable. There are the grace of God go I. Have you ever sent a

:55:16.:55:18.

message to someone who should not have question a sweet message for my

:55:19.:55:27.

wife Michelle. That went to the PRS Michelle Mone. Yes, the lingerie

:55:28.:55:35.

woman? I won't ask exactly what she said -- you said, but I get the

:55:36.:55:41.

gist. This is how this one happened. It is the first names now and you

:55:42.:55:46.

might have lots of people called Nick and a few people called

:55:47.:55:49.

Michelle and you can press the wrong one and it is too late. So what

:55:50.:55:55.

should you do if you realise that you sent it incorrectly? What should

:55:56.:55:59.

be the etiquette if you have made a big boo-boo? Sent in error. But in a

:56:00.:56:06.

different life, things I would have liked to have said to you. That

:56:07.:56:11.

might be too much information, but thank you. Should we make political

:56:12.:56:17.

capital out of mistakes made by politicians? There is an American

:56:18.:56:21.

politician whose reputation was enhanced when he sent a text message

:56:22.:56:25.

saying he had laid the open air. He had actually paid to the open air,

:56:26.:56:34.

but misspelt it -- the au pair. He was seen as a conservative

:56:35.:56:38.

character, but his reputation rose as a result of this. It has

:56:39.:56:46.

distracted me somewhat. She has lived a very sheltered life. What

:56:47.:56:52.

about the whips? Do you think text in would be wise if you were sending

:56:53.:56:57.

out group text messages and you were trying to coerce people?

:56:58.:57:04.

Essentially, in life, you have to remember the Walter Cronkite rule,

:57:05.:57:07.

never do anything, say anything write anything that you are not

:57:08.:57:12.

prepared to see on the front of the New York Times. Do not put anything

:57:13.:57:15.

in writing that you would regret. And the best whipping is done by

:57:16.:57:21.

person-to-person contact, making sure you persuade your people and

:57:22.:57:25.

you know them and to speak to them one to one. Yes, you don't want on

:57:26.:57:29.

the local newspaper, then don't write it. What about what SAP? Group

:57:30.:57:37.

messages. Again, people can forget there are a list of people in the

:57:38.:57:44.

group so how careful you have to be? -- What'sApp. The problem is

:57:45.:57:48.

nowadays we have things further down the text. You find you are sending a

:57:49.:57:53.

whole history. There is a long thread. Once you get to the group

:57:54.:57:57.

things, it just grows exponentially. So, say less. As Andrew does, just

:57:58.:58:04.

tweet from the heart knowing that the message can be shared by anyone.

:58:05.:58:09.

When it comes to Twitter, you are my role model. Absolutely. Which bit,

:58:10.:58:15.

particularly? You don't need to probe, just do the quiz.

:58:16.:58:17.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:18.:58:21.

The question was which peer responded for the government during

:58:22.:58:23.

So, Gyles, what's the correct answer?

:58:24.:58:34.

You have caught up with the thread. Do you have a clue? I will go for

:58:35.:58:41.

Green. I'm afraid it is Lord Gardiner of Kimble. Is he the son of

:58:42.:58:51.

the old Lord gardener? I don't know. He's not related to Barry Gardiner

:58:52.:58:52.

either. The One O'Clock News is starting

:58:53.:58:54.

over on BBC One now. I'll be on This Week

:58:55.:58:56.

tonight with Liz Kendall, Matt Forde, Andy Parsons,

:58:57.:58:58.

Liam Halligan, and Michael Portillo When author

:58:59.:59:01.

Sir Terry Pratchett died,

:59:02.:59:07.