16/03/2017 Daily Politics


16/03/2017

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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Questions over the Conservatives general election campaign spending

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have snowballed this morning, as the party is fined a record

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Meanwhile, 12 police forces investigating local Tory campaigns

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Chancellor Phillip Hammond is forced to drop a tax rise

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, so where could the Government be forced to back down next?

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With reports of student unions banning certain newspapers,

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words like "man-kind" and even "sombreros", is free speech

:01:29.:01:30.

really under threat at British universities?

:01:31.:01:35.

And style, understatement, refinement - all things

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you won't find in this limousine made for Donald Trump and about to

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

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of the programme today, someone I can assure you didn't

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arrive here by limousine - not least because he'd quickly write

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an article about the BBC wasting money - it's

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Let's begin today with the news that the Conservatives have been

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fined a record ?70,000 by the electoral commission.

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This is one of a series of investigations into how the party

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spent money at the 2015 general election and a number

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It follows a long-running investigation into claims the Tories

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may have broken electoral law by Channel 4 News, which in turn led

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Well, don't worry, because JoCo is here with the details.

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Political parties have to keep a record of all their spending

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during election campaigns to make sure they comply with

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The Electoral Commission, the independent watchdog

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which oversees election expenses has fined the Conservatives a record

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?70,000 for breaking election expense rules.

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The Commission says there were "numerous failures"

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in reporting the spending on three by-elections in 2014

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These included missing payments of at least ?104,000 and ?118,000

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that was either not reported or incorrectly reported.

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A portion of that amount was recorded as national party

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spending when it should have been written down as local

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candidate spending, which has much smaller limits.

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What's more Conservatries did not include the required invoices

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or receipts for 81 payments to the value of nearly ?53,000.

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The Conservatives have accepted the fine and said they made

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Separately, a dozen police forces have sent files

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to the Crown Prosecution Service to decide whether charges

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should be brought over how the Conservatives spent money

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The Tories aren't the only party to feel the force

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of the Electoral Commission, last year both Labour and the Lib

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Dems were fined ?20,000 each for undeclared election expenses.

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I spoke to Claire Bassett the chief executive

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of the Electoral Commission earlier and I begain by asking

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of the Electoral Commission earlier and I began by asking

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her what she thought of the Conservatives claim

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that they made an administrative error.

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What we have found is a number of failings right across three

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by-elections in 2014 and the UK Parliamentary general election

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in 2015 that covered a number of aspects of the work.

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We think these are unprecedented, the level we have seen,

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and for that reason, we have imposed a ?70,000 fine

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which is the highest we have ever imposed.

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Would you have imposed more if you had had the scope to do so?

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That ?70,000 actually represents five different separate fines

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which have been added up, and certainly, at least one of those

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we would have liked to have been higher than the maximum ?20,000

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We think that level is just too low and that, in fact,

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this could be seen as a cost of doing business for some parties,

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particularly if you are spending millions of pounds at a general

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We would like to see Parliament increase that,

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certainly, so it is in line with other regulators.

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Just to ask again about the administrative error

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line, or justification, from the Conservatives -

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do you think that is justified in terms of this explanation?

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Well, what we have found, we examined the national party

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spending return for the by-elections and for the general election

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and what we found was numerous instances where campaign spending

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was either inaccurately reported, missing, or not apportioned

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properly and what that says is that there was a system failure

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in how they were recording that spending and how those

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So it is a significant failure and what it meant

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is that we were actually unable to establish accurate

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levels of what was spent in some areas, for example.

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The whole controversy has centred around what actually

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counts as local spending, local campaign spending

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for a specific candidate in a specific constituency,

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and national spending from the central office of a party

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As far as you are concerned, what is the main difference?

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What we have looked at is only the national spending,

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Candidate spending returns are under a different regime

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and that is what the police and the CPS are looking at.

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But in terms of what we looked at, money spent on campaigning -

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was it spent on the big national campaigns that were about getting

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that party elected or were they about supporting an individual

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candidate in a specific constituency to get elected?

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I think that is the best way of summarising the difference.

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How co-operative were the Conservatives?

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Well, there have been some delays in completing the investigation

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and those are largely down to difficulties we have had

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obtaining information to carry out this investigation

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and unfortunately, at one point, we did have to seek

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Labour and the Liberal Democrats were also fined ?20,000 each.

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The Conservatives have been fined significantly more.

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Does that mean that the Conservatives were a lot worse?

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It means the scale and nature was more serious.

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The Conservatives' was also across the three by-elections

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which wasn't the case in the other two.

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But that fine also reflects the difficulty we had

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in completing the investigation, the challenges brought

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In the other two instances, both the parties very quickly

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put their hands up and co-operated fully with the investigations,

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which unfortunately was not the case here.

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And we did ask to speak to the Conservatives and Labour

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on this issue this morning, but neither want to

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Maybe they are busy doing something else.

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But let's talk now to our assistant political editor, Norman Smith.

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He's outside the Conservative Party's HQ,

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central office as it used to be known, in Westminster.

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Norman, so a record fine from the Commission and now all eyes on the

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Crown Prosecution Service. Because that will establish as to whether

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this breach of the election rules was deliberate. It was a tactic by

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the Conservative Party, in effect to give them an advantage in key

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marginal seats by enabling their candidates to spend more. Now, the

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electoral Commission are saying this is not something they investigate,

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this is beyond their jurisdiction. They simply do not know what the

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intent was, whether it was honest administrative error, as

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Conservative officials here insist, or whether there was a deliberate

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intent to give Tory candidates a key advantage in those critical wards.

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But, I mean there is no getting away, I think, from the severity and

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almost anger, you sense from the Electoral Commission at the way the

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Conservative Party responded to this investigation, the fact they had to

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get a court order to obtain the key documents. And there is also one

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telling paragraph towards the end of the report where they say they fear

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there was "a realistic prospect that Conservative candidates did indeed

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have an advantage." Now that is clearly, I suppose the smoking gun.

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Whether this at the end of the day was simply poor book keeping or

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something else was going on. Norman that's Tory headquarters behind you

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there in our shot. How worried are they in that building? ? Well, I

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think they have to be worried. I mean these are very, very serious

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suggestions and they are just allegations, let's be honest. I mean

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their response so far, it seems to me, to be rather desperately

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suggesting that really this as big news as we seem to think it is, this

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was down to some administrative mistakes. They suggest the amount of

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money involved is comparatively small compared to their overall

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election spend. 0.6%. They say they have never been fined for this sort

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of thing before. They are also crit of the electoral -- critical of the

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Electoral Commission, taking a swipe at them, suggesting they need to

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review the way they go about their work. But clearly we need to wait

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until the police conclude their inquiries to get more details as to

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whether this was deliberate and whether there was intent behind the

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abuse of rules. Busy say. Rod Liddell how serious is it for the

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Tories? Very serious. The laughable thing is Labour hasn't making as

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much hay as it as they should be. You could, at the least, if the

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smoking gun is found, as Norman say, demand a rerun of the by elections,

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even though the general election superceded, in the Will the defence

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of dome crasscy. The reality is the spend per constituent... It is quite

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small It is quite small, it could have a significant difference.

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Labour may not be making as much of it as you think they should because

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they got fined. It was ?20,000. The Tories have ?7 o 0,000 and it is a

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record -- ?70,000 Yes but we have been looking into the Tory with more

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alack right and vigorous. And of course, Ukip. I think they got down

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and Labour. Ukip are being investigated but we haven't heard

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from the Electoral Commission from them. But Labour and the be Lib Dems

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are caught up in an investigation too. The reason they are keeping

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quite quiet. The obvious thing to ask for is a rerun of the

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by-elections, in terms of democracy, what is the last thing that Jeremy

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Corbyn wants now? Probably and more late Thursday nights for us More

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late Thursday nights for you. Those are the words

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of Chancellor Philip Hammond in this morning's Sun,

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as he explains the Government's decision to perform a U-turn

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on its planned rise in National Insurance only a week

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after he announced it at the Budget. The toxic mixture of being seen

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to break a manifesto commitment, opposition from Tory MPs,

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the newspapers, and crucially, to the plan and Mr Hammond had to go

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the despatch box yesterday to eat a fairly big

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serving of humble pie. It is very important,

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both to me and to my right honourable friend,

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the Prime Minister, that we comply not just with the letter but also

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the spirit of the commitments Therefore, as I set out in my letter

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this morning to the chairman of the select committee,

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my right honourable friend, the member for Chichester,

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I have decided not to proceed with the class four NICs measures

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set out in the Budget. There will be no increases

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in National Insurance contribution The genuinely self-employed

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carry real financial risk I know that a Conservative

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government really wants a tax system that will support risk takers

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and growth creators. Will the Chancellor commit to work

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with colleagues over the coming months who believe it is time

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to take a holistic and simplifying view of personal taxation

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for the self-employed which will support

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wholeheartedly those who build Might the Chancellor consider

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to make up the loss in revenue to bear down on those employers

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who force their employees into self-employment

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against their wish, destabilise their lives

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and thereby get out of paying National Insurance contributions,

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as all good employers do pay? As a slavish supporter

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of the Government, I am in some difficulty because my article

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robustly supporting the Chancellor's early policy

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in the Forest Journal is already Having been persuaded

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of the correctness of the course he is now following,

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I merely needed an opportunity Joining us now is the former

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Minister for Government A Welcome back to the programme. Now

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you were involved in drawing up the Tory manifesto for 2015. It stated

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four times there would be no rise in national insurance contributions.

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Did you forget to send a copy to Philip Hammond? I'm not responsible

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for sending copies of manifesto for anybody. I suspect what was

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happening was the Treasury was focussing on the legislation that

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then happened and that legislation specifically tied down income tax

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and the ordinary national insurance you and I play as employees but

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didn't tie down the self-employed such. I suspect they focussed on

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that. You know civil servants keep an eye on the manifesto as W they

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read through it and gut it before parties come into power and yet we

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learn that Mr Hammond wasn't even sure that this was a Conservative

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manifesto pledge until he heard the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg say it in

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this very studio. That's remarkable. It is not as remarkable as it would

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be if it had not been translated into law... One particular type of

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National Insurance was put into law, the manifesto did not discriminate.

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You are right it did not but the lauded. When the law was going

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through, the Labour Party said we were doing it to fulfil the

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manifesto commitment. It was what it was mainly aimed at. The manifesto

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was not consistent ultimately with what Philip Hammond did. As a matter

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of history, we will all recall, what was going on was there was a big

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hoo-ha about raising income tax and the suggestion that the ordinary

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National Insurance would be raised. Nobody thought it actually referred

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to the class two, three, four NICS. We were meant to work that out? A

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senior adviser to Mr Cameron said it was an idea you thought up on the

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hoof at the last minute, and emptied it in the election grid and you

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said, make a promise not to raise income tax, National Insurance, VAT.

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Long history, a question of whether Ed Miliband would raise taxes, the

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suggestion he would raise National Insurance instead. Would the Tories

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raise it as well? In retrospect, it would have been better if it had

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been more carefully phrased so in that, rather than just... So that it

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could have exempted what Philip Hammond is trying to do. Fact is

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fact. As we are now, it is right that we come back to this issue in

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the next Parliament after a review. Fiasco, shambles? No, no. Three

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weeks from now, you will not remember what it was about. I can

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assure you I will! Be in no bad about that! You will be on to the

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next big thing. There are some big things and this is quite a small

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thing. The big-ticket item is the question of whether the Budget needs

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to be fiscally neutral. Philip decided rightly it should be. It

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will now have to be done in a different way. We might forget it or

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put it to the back of our minds if you do a U-turn on something else,

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now you have shown you are an easy target for backbench treasure. What

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is the next? New schools funding, grammar schools? Probate charges

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which are going to shoot through the roof? I am charmed you think I am

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the representative of Her Majesty's government. I was dismissed a year

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ago. You going to defend them even though you will probably come back

:18:02.:18:05.

and say they were right to change in four weeks? I am happy to defend

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rational policy-making. I think the change Philip Hammond made was

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rational even though it contradicted the manifesto. I know it is

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extremely difficult to judge all of these things. There will be changes

:18:18.:18:21.

of course. The big issue is whether in general the Government is taking

:18:22.:18:25.

us in the right direction and it is. It has poisoned the well between ten

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and 11. Mr Hammond's acolytes off the record briefed that the people

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around the Prime Minister are economically illiterate. The

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consequence is these people who have never been known not to bear a

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grudge, they go for Mr Hammond and force him into having to back down.

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It is not yet at the Tony Blair- George Brown shade of things but it

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is not great. Compared to what happened for many years... That was

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not good for the country. This is not good for the country. I do not

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actually think there is a breakdown at all. I do not know the intimate

:19:05.:19:08.

detail but my impression is that actually both Philip and Theresa

:19:09.:19:13.

will find a good way of operating. Tony Blair and George Brown managed

:19:14.:19:20.

to run a government without operating. If you were Jean-Claude

:19:21.:19:24.

Juncker or any of the other negotiators, you would look and say,

:19:25.:19:28.

this government is a pushover, give them pressure and they capitulate.

:19:29.:19:32.

It hardly suggest that when you get to something that really matters

:19:33.:19:35.

like the Brexit negotiations that you will be able to stand up. If

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that is a mistake that EU negotiators make it will be a very

:19:42.:19:46.

serious mistake because Theresa May is no pushover. Challenged by the

:19:47.:19:49.

House of Lords on a much bigger issue, she robustly stood up for the

:19:50.:19:53.

position she was taking and the House of Lords backed down. If you

:19:54.:19:57.

are asking the question, will Theresa May stick up for her

:19:58.:20:03.

position on the EU Brexit? She will and very powerfully. I have

:20:04.:20:08.

negotiated with her for 16 years and I almost always lost. Explain to me,

:20:09.:20:12.

you said to me that this policy, the one announced in the budget, was

:20:13.:20:18.

rational. But it was counted out in the manifesto and the rational

:20:19.:20:21.

policy which was introduced last week is now no more. By definition,

:20:22.:20:26.

that makes your government is rational. No. It means there was a

:20:27.:20:31.

rational policy which it was not possible to pursue because the

:20:32.:20:35.

manifesto was badly worded. It was a mistake. The moral case, if that is

:20:36.:20:40.

as you are saying, it would have been to say, we were did the

:20:41.:20:44.

manifesto wrongly, the policy stays. Between us, I would have preferred

:20:45.:20:53.

it to be said. You backing the U-turn or sticking with the

:20:54.:20:56.

pre-U-turn policy? The pre-U-turn policy was good. It will have to

:20:57.:21:02.

come back in a different form. Sticking to the exact words of the

:21:03.:21:05.

manifesto is an important issue because at the next time we issue a

:21:06.:21:12.

manifesto, people need to know it is what we will do. I want to move on

:21:13.:21:19.

to election expenses, your party has been fined a record ?70,000, you

:21:20.:21:25.

failed to declare ?276,000 of expenses. Can nobody count in Tory

:21:26.:21:30.

Central office? As you observed earlier, all three political parties

:21:31.:21:33.

were found to have accounting systems which were not... Not like

:21:34.:21:41.

you both. The inaccuracies were in the three by-elections as well, it

:21:42.:21:45.

is a larger fine. All parties should obviously have accounting systems

:21:46.:21:50.

which are perfect. The Electoral Commission said the scale was

:21:51.:21:54.

completely different for the Conservatives, the scale and scope

:21:55.:21:57.

of the issues concerning the Conservative Party election

:21:58.:22:01.

expenses. And they could not get anything out of you. They were not

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trained to get anything out of me! The parties should always cooperate

:22:05.:22:10.

with the authorities -- they were not trying to get anything out of

:22:11.:22:14.

me. The Electoral Commission said your party was guilty of

:22:15.:22:18.

unreasonable and uncooperative conduct. At one stage, to get

:22:19.:22:22.

central office to release information, they had to go for a

:22:23.:22:28.

court order. There is law here and what parties are obliged to do is

:22:29.:22:32.

break the law and part of that is to have accounting systems that work,

:22:33.:22:35.

we should have that, it is an embarrassment... Given that the

:22:36.:22:40.

accounting systems were pretty dodgy... Not Baggio, wrong. -- not

:22:41.:22:49.

dodgy. I will not accept that they were dodgy. It suggest someone was

:22:50.:22:59.

intentionally... We do not know. We both know, we all know, that the

:23:00.:23:03.

prosecuting authorities, the police, are properly looking at it. Why

:23:04.:23:10.

didn't you call operate? I suspect the accounting systems were just

:23:11.:23:16.

wrong. It was clear you had made mistakes, intentionally or not, that

:23:17.:23:20.

is a matter for down the road. Why didn't you call operate? I think the

:23:21.:23:25.

party did have to cooperate will stop unreasonable and uncooperative

:23:26.:23:29.

conduct. You delayed the investigation for months. When you

:23:30.:23:35.

say, I did not delay anything... The party delayed the investigation for

:23:36.:23:40.

months. I suspect there are many different accounts of exactly what

:23:41.:23:44.

went on. The important point is, we should not have been in this

:23:45.:23:48.

position. If the accounts had been perfect, this would not happen.

:23:49.:23:56.

Whose fault is it? They have been reported to the police. As has the

:23:57.:24:02.

opposite number in the Lib Dems. It is the correct thing to do. The

:24:03.:24:06.

accounting systems were wrong. The fact is, 70,000 is a slap on the

:24:07.:24:13.

wrist. You need to have a blue ball and get some Tory hedge funds

:24:14.:24:20.

supporter, have little Jemima and Hamish some work express for a --

:24:21.:24:27.

work express for a couple of days. You are making it into a major

:24:28.:24:32.

political thing. The real disincentive for parties which will

:24:33.:24:35.

force them to keep proper accounts is the fact you have terrible

:24:36.:24:38.

problems in the media and with the public if you don't. The real thing

:24:39.:24:48.

is that 12 police forces are reporting your party to the CPS. I

:24:49.:24:53.

suspect they will clear the party of any wrongdoing in that sense. 12

:24:54.:24:59.

police forces are wrong? All 12? We do not know what they said. You must

:25:00.:25:07.

not prejudge these things. You are... We don't know what the

:25:08.:25:12.

outcome is. I suspect it will be to clear them. I am saying it is wrong

:25:13.:25:16.

not to have proper accounting systems. What actually keeps the

:25:17.:25:21.

parties honest in that respect and make sure they do do their job

:25:22.:25:27.

properly is the amount of exposure that goes on if you don't. That is

:25:28.:25:32.

more important than a fine. Shouldn't we go and run the

:25:33.:25:35.

by-elections again? You can do what you like! Sorry to be the moral

:25:36.:25:41.

arbiter on this programme, wouldn't that be the moral thing to do? It

:25:42.:25:45.

would be silly for someone to do that. They need to see what happens

:25:46.:25:53.

with the prosecuting authorities. Having a moral arbiter is a pretty

:25:54.:25:58.

new thing to have in politics! Oliver Letwin, thank you very much.

:25:59.:26:02.

Now, let's talk a little further about that Government U-turn

:26:03.:26:04.

on the rises in National Insurance contributions.

:26:05.:26:06.

It was announced shortly before PMQs yesterday, which didn't give

:26:07.:26:08.

Labour's Jeremy Corbyn long to work out how to exploit the climb-down.

:26:09.:26:11.

But it also caused problems for some on the Conservative side,

:26:12.:26:14.

including the International Development Minister, Rory Stewart,

:26:15.:26:16.

who had been defending the tax rise in this very studio just before

:26:17.:26:19.

It is important to understand that the majority of self-employed

:26:20.:26:28.

people will not be worse off as a result of this measure.

:26:29.:26:35.

The pension benefits have gone up over time and the reason for the

:26:36.:26:38.

discrepancy is gone. It is important to understand

:26:39.:26:41.

that the majority of self-employed people will not be worse off

:26:42.:26:44.

as a result of this measure. So, if you're on, for example,

:26:45.:26:47.

?17,000 a year, like the majority of my constituents, you would be

:26:48.:26:49.

?309 better off in terms of your tax It sounds to me as though

:26:50.:26:53.

the Government has made a difficult decision,

:26:54.:26:57.

which I think is the right decision, which is that we have to keep

:26:58.:26:59.

to the spirit of the manifesto. Amazing how quickly the U-turn is

:27:00.:27:02.

can change people's mines! We're joined now by Tom Newton-Dunn

:27:03.:27:09.

from the Sun and by Kate McCann It was a big screeching U-turn. It

:27:10.:27:20.

was. Record-breaking. We have never had the main tax policy of a budget

:27:21.:27:23.

collapse within seven days. Six days. That is true. The credibility

:27:24.:27:30.

of the Chancellor? It has not helped him a huge amount. I would say he is

:27:31.:27:35.

damaged but this is far from terminal. Rumours of Philip

:27:36.:27:42.

Hammond's demise and sacking in the summer are grossly exaggerated. The

:27:43.:27:45.

truth is the PM and the Chancellor are an old married couple and like a

:27:46.:27:50.

lot of old married couples, there is not a lot of love left but they will

:27:51.:27:56.

go on together. Speak for yourself! The last Tory manifesto was before

:27:57.:28:00.

his time, he said, before the time of the current leadership, it does

:28:01.:28:03.

not really wash, does it? It does not. I do not think Oliver Letwin's

:28:04.:28:08.

comments will wash either, him saying we were only talking about

:28:09.:28:15.

class one NICS. We have all had to learn the differences! It is

:28:16.:28:19.

disingenuous to make that argument. It gets to the heart of the problem

:28:20.:28:23.

which is that you should not put things like this in the manifesto

:28:24.:28:30.

because National Insurance is of -- is a massive revenue raiser. Massive

:28:31.:28:38.

learning curve, what have we learnt about this government? What does it

:28:39.:28:40.

say about Theresa May and Philip Hammond? We have learned they are

:28:41.:28:46.

seriously capable of major screw ups. We will get to the bottom of

:28:47.:28:51.

this eventually. I am told there is a great story at the time of the

:28:52.:28:56.

making of the decision. The original tax rise or the U-turn? The original

:28:57.:29:03.

tax rise. Philip Hammond is an excessive physical disciplinarian,

:29:04.:29:06.

he has to make the budgets balanced and find ways of paying for things

:29:07.:29:10.

that will not come out or borrowing so he won the original battle to pay

:29:11.:29:14.

for the 2 billion of social care and Oliver Letwin could have tried to

:29:15.:29:17.

explain how on earth he left Philip Hammond with the hospital pass of 1

:29:18.:29:26.

million ring fences. He won the original battle and it went terribly

:29:27.:29:28.

wrong and Number 10 say they predicted it in advance, hence why

:29:29.:29:33.

then forced a pretty rapid U-turn. We know from that that decisions are

:29:34.:29:39.

made in Number 10 far too quickly and informed and there is another

:29:40.:29:43.

element, putting all of this into the wider perspective, the Tory MPs

:29:44.:29:48.

are talking about this today, the sheer workload on top of the

:29:49.:29:52.

Chancellor and the PM, Brexit, Donald Trump, the fiscal problem,

:29:53.:29:57.

how to pay for social care and the NHS, and the Scottish referendum.

:29:58.:30:00.

You think these mistakes will become more frequent as a result? Four

:30:01.:30:05.

crises pretty tough to deal with and it is almost inevitable the wheels

:30:06.:30:09.

will come off on one of them. We talked briefly before with Oliver

:30:10.:30:14.

Letwin about if they folded under pressure over this issue, in

:30:15.:30:21.

physical terms, ?2 billion, what will be the next thing they will

:30:22.:30:25.

fault over? Problems with the schools funding already. The

:30:26.:30:28.

government whips are worried about the bus services Bill which sounds

:30:29.:30:32.

boring but lots of backbench MPs are upset about that, cutting bus

:30:33.:30:37.

services in local constituencies. The wider problem is exactly what

:30:38.:30:42.

you say, what it means for party discipline. Tory MPs have

:30:43.:30:45.

effectively become the official opposition. Jeremy Corbyn is not

:30:46.:30:49.

holding Theresa May to account. We saw that yesterday. The U-turn was

:30:50.:30:53.

forced by the Tory backbenches. It is not anything to do with the

:30:54.:30:55.

Labour Party. In terms of Tory backbenchers, we

:30:56.:31:05.

demonstrated with Rory Stewart, he had to about-turn on air and Dominic

:31:06.:31:09.

Raab was defending the policy after the Budget, how upset will they be,

:31:10.:31:14.

in terms of having defended a policy that then makes them look stupid

:31:15.:31:17.

when it is dropped? Very upset. There is the policy mess and the

:31:18.:31:21.

communications handling of it. To have a mid-rapging Government

:31:22.:31:26.

minister, live on television and not telling him, no-one bothering to

:31:27.:31:31.

ring up and say - don't go too strong on this, we are about to pull

:31:32.:31:36.

the rug from under your feet. Although a letter was sent. Why does

:31:37.:31:40.

number ten not know we have a minister live on air defending this.

:31:41.:31:45.

It wreaks of a shambles. Let's talk about Labour, Jeremy Corbyn had to

:31:46.:31:49.

respond. He had about 20 minutes or so when this became apparent that

:31:50.:31:53.

the Chancellor was going to drop these tax rises on national

:31:54.:31:56.

insurance contributions and it seems he did not handle it W what impact

:31:57.:31:59.

does that have on Labour and the Government? The impactd on the

:32:00.:32:03.

Government is to cheer them up immensely. There is, as Kate says,

:32:04.:32:08.

there is no official Opposition effectively. No attempt to hold

:32:09.:32:12.

Theresa May to K he simply cannot do it. All he can do is wish everybody

:32:13.:32:18.

a happy St Patrick's Day. An, enanity. So, off Labour Party where

:32:19.:32:23.

the majority of the Labour MPs do not like him and are clubbed

:32:24.:32:27.

together because the alternative could be worse than Corbyn and an

:32:28.:32:32.

electorate which also does not like him and mistrusts him even more than

:32:33.:32:36.

it mistrusted Ed Miliband. It is absolutely disastrous. And I can't

:32:37.:32:40.

see any way out of it at all in the short term. You know, this is going

:32:41.:32:45.

to go on for two years. Thank you both very much.

:32:46.:32:51.

We are getting reports of a shooting in the French down of Grasse in the

:32:52.:32:58.

Cote d'Azur. We don't have any details yet. Implications is that it

:32:59.:33:03.

is a terrorist incident but we don't yet know.

:33:04.:33:06.

Are universities restricting free speech?

:33:07.:33:08.

The practice of "no-platforming", where individuals are banned

:33:09.:33:10.

from speaking on campus, aren't new, but there have been reports that

:33:11.:33:12.

an increasing number of people and activities are being restricted

:33:13.:33:15.

over questions of sexuality, race and gender.

:33:16.:33:17.

Jenny Kumah's been back to university to find out more.

:33:18.:33:29.

University - a place for debating, challenging ideas and analysing

:33:30.:33:32.

But campuses also strive to be places where all students feel safe

:33:33.:33:43.

and able to get involved without judgment and intimidation.

:33:44.:33:47.

It seems these two ideas are causing conflict on campus.

:33:48.:33:49.

There is growing concern that some student unions are becoming

:33:50.:33:54.

increasingly restrictive as they try to balance

:33:55.:33:56.

allowing free speech with protecting different groups.

:33:57.:33:59.

There have been a number of high-profile incidents recently,

:34:00.:34:02.

like one union banning Mexican hats from a freshers' fare

:34:03.:34:10.

for being racist, and some unions have banned cross dressing for fun.

:34:11.:34:14.

Here at Queen Mary University of London, the Free-Speech Society

:34:15.:34:17.

isn't happy that a vote has resulted in a ban on the Sun,

:34:18.:34:20.

the Daily Mail and the Daily Express being sold at union-run shops here.

:34:21.:34:24.

Why shouldn't students be able to purchase them on campus

:34:25.:34:27.

and discuss the ideas and challenge them if they don't like them

:34:28.:34:30.

We should have that debate and have those discussions,

:34:31.:34:37.

but banning them or banning the sale of them doesn't help

:34:38.:34:39.

The student union told me there is no one available

:34:40.:34:47.

to give an interview today, but they have just e-mailed me

:34:48.:34:50.

a statement and they say this is a commercial boycott

:34:51.:34:52.

and the union should not tolerate hateful

:34:53.:34:54.

discourse in its venues, including in the

:34:55.:34:56.

But questions have also been raised about student unions

:34:57.:35:00.

Six groups are not allowed a platform on campuses

:35:01.:35:05.

But recent decisions to exclude some high-profile

:35:06.:35:15.

Feminist writer Julie Bindel was barred from speaking

:35:16.:35:25.

They said her views on trans people would incite hatred.

:35:26.:35:29.

And a National Union of Student representative refused to share

:35:30.:35:32.

a platform with gay rights activist Peter Tatchell, accusing him

:35:33.:35:34.

Your party's long history of anti-Semitism, homophobia and

:35:35.:35:39.

When you have got a massive platform in the media and elsewhere

:35:40.:35:46.

suggesting that your freedom of speech has been curtailed

:35:47.:35:48.

by you not being invited to a student union event,

:35:49.:35:50.

Students are exercising their freedom of speech

:35:51.:35:53.

by calling out and disagreeing with certain views.

:35:54.:35:59.

But last October, police were called to the University College London

:36:00.:36:05.

when things got heated as pro-Palestinian supporters

:36:06.:36:07.

protested about a former Israeli soldier's talk.

:36:08.:36:09.

A university report found individuals planned to stop

:36:10.:36:13.

the event and created an intimidating atmosphere.

:36:14.:36:17.

This week, Baroness Deech called on the Government to write

:36:18.:36:20.

to university authorities to urge them to make sure that

:36:21.:36:24.

their self-governing, democratically-elected student

:36:25.:36:33.

Universities need to act promptly when the law is broken and deal

:36:34.:36:44.

with the offending students quickly, otherwise the students will go down,

:36:45.:36:46.

it will be the end of term, and the situation will not

:36:47.:36:49.

Baroness Deech says she is considering putting

:36:50.:36:52.

forward an amendment to the Higher Education Bill

:36:53.:36:54.

to strengthen free speech at universities, but the Government

:36:55.:36:56.

insists there are already sufficient laws in place.

:36:57.:36:58.

Before we move on. More reports of what is happening in France. Several

:36:59.:37:03.

people seem to be injured in a shooting incident at a French

:37:04.:37:06.

school. A gunman son understood to have opened fire at a high school in

:37:07.:37:13.

Grasse, about 30 minutes north of Cannes on the Cote d'Azur. The

:37:14.:37:16.

headteacher is said to be among those wounded. So we are getting a

:37:17.:37:20.

little bit more of a picture there, but still a lot yet to come through.

:37:21.:37:25.

Going back to the story we did the film on now. We are joined by author

:37:26.:37:29.

and journalist Kate Welsh. Welcome to the programme. A recent free

:37:30.:37:37.

speech survey by Spike said 94% of UK universities have censored free

:37:38.:37:42.

speech in the past year, some have no platform, people like Germaine

:37:43.:37:50.

Greer, Roger sth Scruton and a human rights' activist called Miriam

:37:51.:37:53.

Namasi. Are you happy? I don't believe it is censorship. I think

:37:54.:37:57.

freedom of speech is the right to accept the consequences of that

:37:58.:38:00.

speech. That means if certain institutions don't want to promote

:38:01.:38:03.

or give you a platform to say these things, then you have to accept

:38:04.:38:07.

that. Really? Yes, I do. That's not curtailing freedom of speech? No, I

:38:08.:38:13.

don't think it is. But people... People like Germaine Greer. But you

:38:14.:38:17.

have taken away the freedom of these people to speak at the university?

:38:18.:38:21.

They can speak wherever they like. But it freedom of speech is not

:38:22.:38:24.

freedom to be invited wherever you want. What is the point of a

:38:25.:38:27.

university if you don't allow a variety of views to be expressed? A

:38:28.:38:31.

variety of views, that's absolutely fine. Clearly not if you are

:38:32.:38:36.

Germaine Greer. I think - students are being asked to pay increasingly

:38:37.:38:43.

higher fees. I think that if they object to people like Germaine

:38:44.:38:49.

Greer, Julie Bindel and others being given, frequently pretty hefty

:38:50.:38:52.

speaking frees and a plot form at their universities. Julie Bildel

:38:53.:38:56.

does not take fees for that and she has worked for 30 years raising

:38:57.:39:01.

awareness of violence against women and done so, you know, thanklessly

:39:02.:39:05.

and for her to be bored from universities, simply because she has

:39:06.:39:09.

a different view to you or so. People in that university about

:39:10.:39:13.

transgender issues is a disgrace, as it is with Peter Tatchell. Hold on,

:39:14.:39:17.

hold on. Let Kate Welsh come back. Just to save money. It is ludicrous.

:39:18.:39:24.

I think Julie Bindel has done some fantastic things for women's issues,

:39:25.:39:29.

I will not decry that. I believe she has frequently incited hatred

:39:30.:39:31.

against transgender people. She hasn't. She has defended them. I

:39:32.:39:36.

have heard her do it. She has done it to me of I have spoken to her

:39:37.:39:41.

about it. She has supported trapped gender people. She look test notion,

:39:42.:39:47.

a scientific fact that someone who has transitioned from a man to a

:39:48.:39:53.

woman is still, technically, essentially, a man. The issue is not

:39:54.:39:57.

right or wrong, the issue is shouldn't you be able to hear the

:39:58.:40:02.

views on both sides of the argument. The Lincoln university, the student

:40:03.:40:07.

union t banned the university Conservative Association from social

:40:08.:40:11.

media because the Association had point odd out that the university

:40:12.:40:15.

had a low ranking what enit came to free speech. This is getting

:40:16.:40:20.

ridiculous I don't think that is on the same par as criticising who is

:40:21.:40:23.

being invited to speak at universities or to say that a

:40:24.:40:28.

democratically elected student union, preferring not to sell papers

:40:29.:40:32.

like the Daily Mail. Why would you do it at all? Why are you scared

:40:33.:40:38.

of... ? I'm in the remotely scared. Isn't a university exactly the place

:40:39.:40:42.

where there should be this cross fertilisation of ideas of political

:40:43.:40:49.

opinions, a breadth of ininformed opinion, of contentious opinion, of

:40:50.:40:51.

things which you might find difficult to accept and things which

:40:52.:40:55.

I might find difficult to accept. That's what should happen at

:40:56.:40:59.

university. Surely that's point? But freedom of speech and freedom of

:41:00.:41:02.

expression for minority groups has traditionally been oppressed or made

:41:03.:41:05.

difficult to access by people who criticise their ability to exist,

:41:06.:41:09.

like Julie Bindel with transpeople. She doesn't criticise that. We havep

:41:10.:41:14.

been around that. The principle at issue is here is not the rights or

:41:15.:41:20.

wrongs of any of the issue, it is that a of university, if you are

:41:21.:41:24.

lucky enough to get to one, is one of the view times in your life when

:41:25.:41:28.

you can go along and hear every view under the sun, but, in fact, what is

:41:29.:41:34.

happening now, is that the views are being channelled into a very narrow

:41:35.:41:37.

tunnel and if you are outside of that with your views, you don't get

:41:38.:41:41.

in? I think it is a very exciting time to be a student right now. I

:41:42.:41:47.

graduated ten years ago, we didn't - the progressive movement that's

:41:48.:41:50.

flowering now was reallip only in bud then but I think students are

:41:51.:41:55.

turning around and saying no to bigotry and hate speech. Well they

:41:56.:41:58.

can go to meetingsings and say that. It is a main or the doing that. It

:41:59.:42:02.

is the minority in the student unions doing that. I speak to

:42:03.:42:07.

someone with a kid at university. He said all this rubbish, this idiocy,

:42:08.:42:10.

this politically correct nonsense has no purchase whatsoever amongst

:42:11.:42:15.

the wider student body. It has a purchase only amongst the perenlely

:42:16.:42:18.

active amongst the political groups within there. . Who are generally

:42:19.:42:25.

from oppressed groups. Universities have been a safe place for straight,

:42:26.:42:30.

white men. We are seeing now an increase, a levelling of the playing

:42:31.:42:33.

field for other voices to be heard. You are stopping other people's

:42:34.:42:38.

voices being heard. That will mean removing the platform from one

:42:39.:42:41.

person and giving it to someone else. Well, a women removing it from

:42:42.:42:49.

a gay woman. City University in London, a who runs a well-known

:42:50.:42:55.

journalism course, voted to ban the Daily Mail and The Daily Express.

:42:56.:43:01.

Running a journalism course, fabulous The Daily Mail and

:43:02.:43:04.

journalism don't go hand in hand. That is your view. That doesn't give

:43:05.:43:09.

you a vote for banning them They are saying that in this specific campus,

:43:10.:43:13.

they are not banning it anywhere else. Where people are studying

:43:14.:43:20.

journalism. If you don't like the Daily Mail, I can understand that,

:43:21.:43:25.

but... It is commercial boycotting. There was theed a am Smith institute

:43:26.:43:30.

support recently which suggested, I think that 85% of university

:43:31.:43:34.

lecturers tended to the left, were liberals, tended to the left. Sure

:43:35.:43:38.

but that's always been the case. That's regularly the case, pretty

:43:39.:43:42.

much. Back in the '60s they did this comparison it was something like

:43:43.:43:47.

60%, still a majority but nothing like the hegonomy within those

:43:48.:43:53.

universities now, is all from this sort of left, liberal, censorious,

:43:54.:43:56.

intolerant and there are tearian. Well that's your view as well. Sthoo

:43:57.:44:03.

yes, I have just said it. Yes, in terms of viewpoint, it isn't

:44:04.:44:06.

generally accepted by everyone that that is the view at universities.

:44:07.:44:09.

Well left-wing view is. Thank you very much. We'll move on.

:44:10.:44:14.

Now, it's been another interesting week for Ukip,

:44:15.:44:18.

after they were forced to deny on Tuesday that they had suspended

:44:19.:44:21.

former donor and founder of the Leave.EU campaign,

:44:22.:44:22.

Mr Banks had previously donated ?1 million to the party,

:44:23.:44:26.

but in recent months, he had been very critical of the new Ukip

:44:27.:44:29.

leadership and of the party's only Westminster MP.

:44:30.:44:32.

On Tuesday morning, Mr Banks tweeted that his Ukip

:44:33.:44:35.

He claimed this was because he had accused the current Ukip leadership

:44:36.:44:43.

of not being able to "knock the skin off a rice pudding".

:44:44.:44:46.

And also confirmed he would be setting up his own "movement" -

:44:47.:44:57.

calling it Ukip 2.0 the force awakens - on Twitter.

:44:58.:44:59.

A Ukip party spokesman instead said that Mr Banks

:45:00.:45:01.

had not been suspended but that his membership lapsed

:45:02.:45:03.

in January and he "chose not to renew, despite reminders".

:45:04.:45:06.

Ukip's only MP, Douglas Carswell, who isn't exactly best

:45:07.:45:08.

friends with Mr Banks, made the slightly barbed response,

:45:09.:45:11.

"It's always very sad when one of Ukip's 40,000 members leaves

:45:12.:45:14.

the party for whatever reason," he said.

:45:15.:45:15.

And we are joined now by the Ukip MEP, Bill Etheridge.

:45:16.:45:20.

Welcome to the programme. Is the party trying to silence Arron Banks?

:45:21.:45:30.

Ukip does not silence anyone, we are often in the headlines for debating

:45:31.:45:36.

things voraciously between us. You could not silence Arron Banks if you

:45:37.:45:43.

wanted to. Has he been suspended? His membership lapse. There is no

:45:44.:45:49.

hard feelings for the leadership towards Arron Banks and I would hope

:45:50.:45:53.

the other way round either. Even though he has been critical of the

:45:54.:46:00.

currently. Paul Nuttall? Arron Banks does not say things in a politically

:46:01.:46:04.

correct way. He did a fantastic job in the referendum. I wish him well.

:46:05.:46:10.

Relations cannot be that cordial or he would not be setting up a new

:46:11.:46:14.

movement, he would be staying with Ukip. He has been speaking about a

:46:15.:46:18.

new movement for some time. It will not be competing with Ukip, as I

:46:19.:46:23.

understand it. It will be called the patriotic alliance and we have heard

:46:24.:46:27.

today from Mr Banks's spokesman that it will be launched the day after

:46:28.:46:30.

the May elections. Good luck to him. Democracy. You said relations are

:46:31.:46:37.

still cordial and there are no hard feelings, that does not smack of

:46:38.:46:41.

cordial relations if you go and set up a rival party. You can have a

:46:42.:46:44.

difference of opinion. He can do whatever he wants. He is a very

:46:45.:46:50.

political guy and that is great. Do you support him in his venture?

:46:51.:46:56.

Would you consider joining? No, I am Ukip until the end and I am going to

:46:57.:47:01.

be a part of it until the end. If it is called Ukip 2.0, the force of w

:47:02.:47:08.

is, Star Wars and allergies, doesn't it feel as if Ukip is at war with

:47:09.:47:16.

itself or not with itself, with another party? -- the force awakens.

:47:17.:47:22.

He did a cross-party organisation and his aim was very similar to ours

:47:23.:47:26.

and he has been a great help, a donor and many other things and I am

:47:27.:47:30.

very grateful. Are you welcoming this new party adding to the colour

:47:31.:47:34.

of democracy? No, it sounds ludicrous. The title of it and the

:47:35.:47:41.

way it has been presented. The thing which Ukip is often prone to,

:47:42.:47:54.

occasional bursts of amour propre. There is a huge deficit in this

:47:55.:47:58.

country, a vast number of people are not prepared to vote for Jeremy

:47:59.:48:02.

Corbyn's Labour Party and they are not prepared to vote for what has

:48:03.:48:08.

become a shambles of Ukip, what we saw at Stoke and Copland. There are

:48:09.:48:13.

all of the votes out there looking for a conduit. Ukip is effectively

:48:14.:48:19.

dissolving. That is how it seems to me. I am not going to sit here next

:48:20.:48:24.

to you of all people and say, we did a great job in Stoke. It was

:48:25.:48:30.

disastrous. However, it does not mean we cannot improve and learn

:48:31.:48:34.

from it. There is a whole range of things we can do. This country needs

:48:35.:48:39.

a party that is more about lower taxation, smaller state, less

:48:40.:48:44.

politically correct. I do not think that appeals to many of the Labour

:48:45.:48:48.

voters in the north. Moving on election spending, as you know,

:48:49.:48:53.

files have been sent to prosecutors and the Tory party has been fined

:48:54.:48:57.

?70,000 by the Electoral Commission for issues to do with the election

:48:58.:49:03.

expenses. In theory, as Rod Liddle raised earlier, there could be a

:49:04.:49:06.

by-election. Why haven't you asked for one in South Thanet? We are

:49:07.:49:11.

waiting to see how things develop. I would love to see one and I think we

:49:12.:49:15.

would come up very strong. You could have challenged it at the time? The

:49:16.:49:20.

party is watching and seeing how it develops. If there is not unity, we

:49:21.:49:24.

will go at it, all guns blazing, and we would have a very strong

:49:25.:49:28.

candidate. You would support Nigel Farage Rennie again? Great

:49:29.:49:33.

politician. Did you listen to his interview with Marine Le Pen? I have

:49:34.:49:38.

not listened to it yet. It will be good, I am sure. When I spoke to him

:49:39.:49:43.

about Marine Le Pen a while ago, he distanced himself from the French

:49:44.:49:46.

presidential candidate, she was not that then. He said, we do not want

:49:47.:49:52.

anything to do with her. Why is he cosying up to her now? There are

:49:53.:49:56.

fundamental differences in policy between Ukip and the National Front.

:49:57.:50:01.

Many of them. It was right not to go into a grouping. For Nigel to speak

:50:02.:50:06.

to another patriotic leader in Europe, have discussions, that is

:50:07.:50:10.

perfectly legitimate. Now they are friends? Nigel is friendly with lots

:50:11.:50:17.

of people, it does not mean they are on the same page politically. There

:50:18.:50:24.

is an arguing for saying Theresa May should speak to her as well. An

:50:25.:50:32.

intruder burst into the high school in southern France and open fire.

:50:33.:50:39.

The town hall in Grasse saying it is not a terrorism incident, it

:50:40.:50:45.

involved students. The BBC News Channel will keep you abreast of

:50:46.:50:50.

developments during the day. Theresa May has just been speaking about the

:50:51.:50:54.

second independence referendum for Scotland which has been proposed by

:50:55.:50:58.

the Scottish Nationalists. She has said, now is not the time. Just now

:50:59.:51:07.

we should be putting all our energies into making sure we get the

:51:08.:51:10.

right deal for the UK and Scotland in our negotiations with the EU.

:51:11.:51:14.

That is my job as Prime Minister. Right now, we should be working

:51:15.:51:19.

together and not pulling apart, we should be working together to get

:51:20.:51:22.

the right deal for Scotland and the UK. That is my job as Prime

:51:23.:51:28.

Minister. For that reason, I say to the SNP, now is not the time.

:51:29.:51:35.

Argument developing as to when the next referendum for Scottish

:51:36.:51:37.

independence should be. The Prime Minister saying not one Brexit

:51:38.:51:40.

negotiations going on. -- not while. Now, if you're a fan of cars

:51:41.:51:49.

with plenty of leather, gold, wood-panelling and high-tech gadgets

:51:50.:51:52.

- it sounds a bit like Jo-Co's Austin Allegro -

:51:53.:51:54.

then you could be in for a treat this weekend because a limousine

:51:55.:51:57.

that was made for one Donald J Trump Introducing the ultimate

:51:58.:52:00.

Trump-mobile. In 1988, this luxury limo was

:52:01.:52:08.

designed exclusively by Cadillac to carry The Donald around

:52:09.:52:13.

his business empire. But for the last ten years,

:52:14.:52:22.

it's been in this mechanic's yard in the little less

:52:23.:52:31.

glamorous Gloucester. It's now owned by Craig Ayres

:52:32.:52:33.

who says he saved it from the He knew I was interested

:52:34.:52:36.

in Cadillacs and limos I knew it was something different,

:52:37.:52:42.

I bought it there and then and drove Rumour has it Trump made

:52:43.:52:48.

a deal with Cadillac to This was a prototype but the plans

:52:49.:52:51.

were abandoned and Trump just kept It's different to drive

:52:52.:53:02.

than anything else. You don't drive a Cadillac,

:53:03.:53:04.

you pilot one. It had a lot of features

:53:05.:53:06.

on there well ahead of its Everybody looks at it,

:53:07.:53:09.

a lot of people like it. When this car was built,

:53:10.:53:13.

no expense was spared. It was designed to cater

:53:14.:53:15.

for Trump's every mood. Its rosewood interiors housed

:53:16.:53:19.

a once state-of-the-art TV, VCR and even

:53:20.:53:21.

afax machine. The roof was heightened

:53:22.:53:26.

for extra space, and the personalised branding left nothing

:53:27.:53:29.

to the imagination as to who might Howdy, young lady,

:53:30.:53:31.

what do you want to know? What was it like being

:53:32.:53:48.

owned by Donald Trump? It was pretty hair-raising,

:53:49.:53:51.

let me tell you. There's a lot of beautiful women

:53:52.:53:53.

that's ridden in me, I tell you. I hope I can find another

:53:54.:53:59.

owner to love me. The car is up for auction on Sunday,

:54:00.:54:04.

so, soon, someone else can Joining us now is the design critic

:54:05.:54:12.

and author, Stephen Bayley. This limousine, the auction estimate

:54:13.:54:35.

is between 10- ?12,000. I believe everything we buy tells stories

:54:36.:54:41.

about us. It probably betrays us. You can see this in Trompe's

:54:42.:54:48.

properties. Churchill once said about, we shape our buildings and

:54:49.:54:52.

our buildings shaped us. Here we have a man who wants to live on a

:54:53.:54:57.

golf course. Someone once described golf as the last refinement of the

:54:58.:55:05.

suburban mind. Here you have a man, the leader of the free world,

:55:06.:55:08.

dedicated himself to it. There are other paradigms where a president

:55:09.:55:12.

might live, Frank Lloyd Wright, on the Prairie, the could have chosen a

:55:13.:55:25.

heart. -- hut. The first television interview he did after he won the

:55:26.:55:32.

election, he was sitting on the Louis XVI Simon King golden throne.

:55:33.:55:40.

-- Sun King. How will you liberate the dispossessed of Kentucky?

:55:41.:55:45.

Someone once said there was a marvellous line about the woman who

:55:46.:55:48.

did all of Henry Frick's collecting for him, he introduced new American

:55:49.:55:55.

money to old French furniture. There has always been that sort of thing

:55:56.:56:00.

in American taste, you project status, the Cadillac, gold helps,

:56:01.:56:08.

French references help. The Cadillac, the stretch limo, there

:56:09.:56:13.

was a time, in the 80s and 90s, that was not an unusual sight in New

:56:14.:56:16.

York. The thing unique in having that. It was a commodity stuff for

:56:17.:56:24.

midtown Manhattan. It has rather changed now. You do not see the

:56:25.:56:30.

stretch limos so much now, even in New York. Were they ever considered

:56:31.:56:37.

good taste? No, I do not think so. I would be prepared to bid for the car

:56:38.:56:47.

except it is not quite bling enough. I want it to offend people. The

:56:48.:56:54.

problem is, these cars may work on the avenues and streets of New York,

:56:55.:56:59.

they do not work on the Ben Delaney is of the Home Counties. -- bendy

:57:00.:57:10.

lanes. It is a projection of tasteful stop he has a lot of taste

:57:11.:57:15.

and it is always bad. It is 70s, is it? What about Donald Trump's taste?

:57:16.:57:22.

I am told an MOT comes with it for a couple of months. If the tax comes

:57:23.:57:29.

as well, I am in! You have your own flag on the door! I think it is a

:57:30.:57:36.

rather beautiful car and I do not like cars very much. Is it

:57:37.:57:44.

snobbery...? Yes, of course it is. He seems to be assessed with gilded

:57:45.:57:50.

stuff. There is the strange thing in Trump Tower, I was speaking about

:57:51.:57:55.

his preference... Trump Tower, the interior, the lobby is designed to

:57:56.:58:02.

be waterfalls and gold and escalators, reflective surfaces

:58:03.:58:07.

often used by people insecure in their tastes in order to project,

:58:08.:58:11.

his apartment, I have not been invited but I have seen pictures,

:58:12.:58:14.

that was designed by one of the people who worked on his casinos.

:58:15.:58:20.

The president, golf and casinos, his parameters for interior design.

:58:21.:58:26.

Heaven for him! In most parts of America, that will impress them.

:58:27.:58:32.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:33.:58:35.

I'll be back here tonight on BBC One after Question Time for This Week,

:58:36.:58:38.

with Michael Portillo, Liz Kendall, Agnes Poirier,

:58:39.:58:40.

historian Kate Williams and Andrew Rawnsley.

:58:41.:58:43.

I'll also be back at noon tomorrow with all the big political

:58:44.:58:46.

The psychiatrist was a figment of his imagination.

:58:47.:59:03.

You never live in the moment any more.

:59:04.:59:10.

Can we find her before he does something?

:59:11.:59:18.

If anything were to happen to her, Charlie...

:59:19.:59:22.

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