Sarah Shourd, Former prisoner in Iran HARDtalk

The headlines: The Turkish Prime Minister has won a third term in

power and has promised to work with his rivals on a new constitution.

In his victory speech he told support as he wanted everyone to be

included. The Syrian army has taken control

of the town Jisr al-Shughour nearly one week after 120 members of the

security forces are said to have been killed there. Syrian

television says a mass grave has been discovered.

Ash particles drifting across the Pacific Ocean from a volcanic

eruption in Chile are causing disruption to airlines in New

Zealand and Eastern Australia. Hundreds of flats had been

cancelled. -- flights.

"Iran knew we were just tourists." That is Sarah Shourd's claim. She

was arrested when she was hiking with two other Americans on Iraq's

border with Iran. After many months in Tehran's notorious Evin prison,

she was released. But her fiance and friend are still there nearly

two years on. They have had barely any contact with the outside world

and while they were promised a trial, it has still not happened.

What will it take to secure their Sarah Shourd, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you. What were you doing hiking on what is one of the

world's most volatile borders? was living in Damascus with my now

fiance. We had been living there for more than one year. He had been

working in the region as an investigative journalist for nearly

one decade. We moved to Damascus and the two of us are peace

activists and it was an extension of our work to actually come and

immerse ourselves in a diverse community in the Middle East and

learn Arabic. So northern Iraqi Kurdistan is a semi autonomous area.

It is a no-fly zone. It was made that way in the 80s to protect them

from Saddam Hussein. It is a flourishing area for tourists and

nobody has been kidnapped there in decades. But you went right to the

border. It is not a very well- marked border but, you make it

clear, you are not naive and you know about the world and the area.

Why go there? We were very unfortunate. We were misled as to

how close the border is. We asked our hotel manager, our taxi driver,

a restaurant owner, they all said it was the best place to hike. It

is a beautiful area with waterfalls and we arrived there by taxi and

there were hundreds of other people, whole families, camping there

overnight. We stayed overnight and asked about a good trail. They said

there was no problem with the trail so we hiked for several hours. The

only mistake we made is that perhaps we hiked too far and were a

little over-zealous. We were enjoying ourselves so much that we

lost track of time and we thought the border was miles away. Do you

accept that it looks suspicious? accept that there is animosity

between Iran and the US that is real and it is 30 years of

animosity and suspicion on both sides of government. But it was

clear immediately when the soldiers saw us that there was no intention

from us to go to Iran. We had nothing on us, no equipment, I was

wearing shorts and no headscarf. The headscarf is mandatory in Iran.

The soldiers immediately forced us into their Jeep, drove us to the

nearest town and bought me a headscarf. They were immediately

suspicious of you? No. It was clear to them that that we came from a

tourist spot and had gone too far away and got lost. I have no idea

where the border is. Did they make it clear that they thought you were

tourists or they knew you were tourists? Yes, that was a strong

impression I got. They saw how confused we were. They saw we did

not speak the language and we had nothing on us except some food and

a few books. They said we had to come for an hour and talk to their

boss and then they would take us back to Iraq. They took us to Iran,

bought the new clothes, drove us around for days and handed us off

to different groups of people. It was obvious we were tourists from

the first second and absolutely no threat. I do not understand why,

when that became blatantly evident, we were not immediately taken back.

But at the time, another woman was only just released from Evin prison.

Another American, picked up by the Iranians, resulting in a high-

profile campaign. And there were another two American journalists

being held in North Korea. Americans had been picked up on

difficult borders in difficult places. So when they picked you up,

what did you think? Of course I was frightened. It got progressively

worse. I got more terrified as one day turned into two days. I was

convinced from the get go that we had done nothing wrong and

everything would be OK. They drove us about for days and kept telling

us we were going home. At one point, they forced us into the car and

drove us into the darkness. They drove us out into nothingness for

more than one hour and we were terrified. They were cocking their

guns and we were afraid for our lives. We had no idea. Nothing can

prepare you for this kind of situation. And then the next day,

they took us to a small prison in the middle of nowhere and drove us

to Tehran. Up until the last minute, they said we were going to the

airport and going home. Do not worry. So it was not until...

they treating you badly? No. In the beginning they were not physically

rough. But we were completely disorientated and had no idea where

we were. Do you think they always intended to take you to Evin

prison? There is no transparency. I have no way of knowing what the

decision-making process was. All I know is it was clear that they knew

we were just tourists and they picked us up near a tourist site.

Whatever decision led to me being thrown into prison and my fiance

and I being torn apart...and now it is two years later. The situation

is persisting. Tell us about that moment when you get to the prison

and you realise that you're not going home. You are put in a cell

and separated from the men and put into a cell. Yes. Shane and Josh

and I agreed that if they tore us apart, we were terrified about

being separated, we would immediately stop eating and go on

hunger strike. We clung to each other, screaming, tears streaming

down our faces. They physically tore us apart, put us into

different cells and we stopped eating for five days until they

finally let us see each other for maybe two minutes. At that point,

Shane and Josh, we were reassuring each other. We said it was not

possible, they could not keep us, and we were sure they would let us

go any day. We had faith it would be resolved immediately. They were

put into a cell together and you were on your own. What was that

like? It is indescribable. The isolation is extreme. You go

through a complete withdrawal the first few months. Everything you

love, everything you care about, is torn away from you and you are just

flailing. It is excruciatingly painful emotionally. I would just

cry and beat at the walls. There were times when I had blood

streaming down my hands from beating at the walls because I

panicked and I feared the worst. Things got... There were so many

different phases. This was a long period, as you know. When the

investigation ended, there were two months when we had to write

everything about ourselves, they scoured through our e-mail accounts

scoured through our e-mail accounts scoured through our e-mail accounts

My interrogator came to my interrogation room after two months

and said "'I am sorry but the investigation is being shut down".

I asked why, was I going to court or going home? And he said he did

not know as my case had become political. He did not know what

would happen to me. In that two months, did you get any

information? No. No phone calls. My first phone call was five months

into detention. Not even being able to tell my mother I am alive. Shane

and Josh have had three phone calls in 22 months. The other prisoners

get a phone call every week so their isolation is extreme. The

last time we did get a phone call, about three weeks ago, I missed it.

But the mothers got a phone call. This is from the other two who are

still there? Yes. But to get a sense of what it was like for you,

did you know the outside world knew you were in there? There were two

Swiss diplomats who came to see you. Yes, after two months. That is what

kept me alive, having faith that the world would not forget us. And

that people would come to our aid. And even though it is only an idea,

it keeps you going and stops you from slipping away. You were

eventually allowed more regular contact with Shane and Josh? Twice

a day for half an hour? When the isolation was starting to take too

heavy a toll and they could see I was losing my mind, they started to

let... They put Shane and Josh in the same cell, they were in

complete isolation for the first three months, they put them

together and started to let us see each other in an open air room

which is a larger cell with bars over the roof. All we could do was

just hold each other and cry for the first several weeks. But we

kept each other going and gave each other the strength to go on. Prison

is very scary and you do not know what is going to happen. Did you

have a window? Yes, a small window. The first several months I was

terrified of violence. I would sleep with a metal plate against

the door. It was the only way I could sleep because I was afraid

someone would come in. You are completely subject to the prison

guards. How did the women guards treat you? Some were very

sympathetic because it was clear to them that I was a good person. That

I loved the Middle East. I would tell them about the fact that I

support Palestinian rights and that made them sympathetic to me. And I

lived in Damascus and was teaching refugees. We are peace activists,

the kind of people you would think Iran would applaud and not punish.

But others were very cruel and they hated me and would not speak to me,

they treated me like I was not human. There is one incident that

is hard to talk about. Shane and Josh were beaten by one of the

guards. They were coming back from the open air room where we spent

time together and nearly every day, Josh and Shane would get extra food

if there was any left over after the prisoners were served. This was

a daily occurrence. Then one of the guards just went crazy. He was

filled with rage and he pushed Josh away from us and tore us apart and

pushed Josh down the stairs and we had no idea where they were taking

him. And so Shane and I were screaming and yelling, stop! And

they pushed us back to our cells and I spent the next hour pounding

my door and screaming his name. Finally, I heard his voice and he

was being taken back to his cell and he said that he was OK. So that

was 24 hours before I heard what happened and what happened was

Shane was forced back to his cell and he was so scared that he kept

banging on his cell the way I did. The same guard came back to his

cell and told him to be quiet. He kept asking where Josh was. The

guard just kept slamming Shane against the wall and he slammed him

against the wall again and again, 10 or 15 times, until the back of

his head was bloody. I saw them the next day and heard what happened.

You never know when something like that will happen. We do not know if

they are safe, we hardly hear from them. This last phone call we got

about three weeks ago, it said... I was not able to talk to them but

they said they had been on hunger strike for 17 days. I don't even

know how that is possible. So we are terrified and we do not

understand. The Iranian authorities have made many positive statements.

After I was released I met with the President and he said he knew about

The chief of Human Rights says I was incapable of espionage, which

is true. Why haven't you told that story about Shane being beaten up

before? I did not imagine in a million years that they would still

be there eight months after I was released. Did you think that by not

saying it, that would hasten their release? The last thing we want is

to be part of animosity between the US government and the Iranian

government. We have nothing to do with government. All three of us

are peace activists. We want to help people. We want to understand

the world better. That is why we went to the Middle East. We fell in

love with the region. Our story should not be mixed up in politics.

It is about two innocent people in prison. But it is so mixed up in

politics. You have been critical of the American government which you

think should have done more. Yes, I do. Nobody has done enough. Shane

and Josh are still there. What got you out? The judge told me I was

released because I was a woman and because I was in solitary

confinement which is a harsher sentence. There were fears over

your health. I had a clean bill of health before I was released. They

took me to a specialist and there was nothing wrong with me. It had

nothing to do with health. It was because I was a woman. Their chief

of Human Rights said they were able to convince the judiciary that I

was incapable of espionage. There was bail posted. $500,000 bail.

Sultan of Oman and his envoy facilitated my release and they're

still working to advocate for Shane and Josh's release. Do you give

them more credit than you give your own government? I am extremely

grateful to them. I will forever have the country of Oman in my

heart. It was incredible being there. There is no transparency in

the situation. I do not know why they are holding Shane and Josh. I

have no idea why I was released. I have no idea why they have not been

released. Or at least why they have not been allowed to meet with their

lawyer. He has been defending them tirelessly within the parameters of

Iranian law but has made no progress. The last session was

cancelled. The reason given by the judiciary was because Shane and

Josh were not brought to court. How is this any kind of reason not to

give anybody a fair trial after 22 months in prison? I wonder how

often you think that they will be released. Or do you think this will

go on and on? I do have faith they will be released. I do not know

when. All of us live in constant anxiety and fear. Shane and Josh

have done nothing wrong. I have to believe that their good records,

their good work in the world will make a difference. I do not know

why it is taking so long. All of the people who have stood up for

them, like Noam Chomsky, Muhammad Ali, these people stand up for

Shane and Josh because they believe in who they are. Their innocence is

clear. The President of Iran has suggested on a couple of occasions

that America could release Iranians. They are raising the idea of a

possible prison swap. Is that something you have tried to pursue

with the American government? When I met with the President of

Iran, he did not mention that. He said that he hoped I would be

married soon and have many children. I saw him face to face and that is

what he said. Did you think he would then go back and arrange the

release? Yes, I did. I would like to believe... He has promised

several times to pass on the recommendation for expediency for

Shane and Josh. I do not know why we have not seen that. You got

engaged in prison? Yes. It was incredible. Shane and I have been

dating for many years. It has been 5.5 years. We love each other very

much. Josh is now my best friend for life. He is like a brother to

me. Shane surprised me, it came out of the blue and it helped to keep

us going. He used cloth from his shirt and a towel to make a ring.

He asked me to spend the rest of my life with him. It was beautiful.

You can imagine the power of the television images there are in you

going back to get your fiancee out of prison. Do you not think it

would help secure his release if you were there? It is a very

difficult decision. It is the most difficult decision I have ever made.

But in the end I have to go with my psychologist who says that my post

traumatic stress disorder... We're all suffering from this but the

toll it has taken on me and my mental health makes us so much more

afraid for Shane and Josh. How is it still affecting you? Extreme

anxiety. Obsession with the campaign. There is nothing else

that gives my life any meaning or direction. The only thing that

keeps me going is to try to advocate for Shane and Josh. I have

insomnia. I get very triggered with panic attacks of things that remind

me of prison. It was a very difficult decision. A part of me

would like to stand with them and defend our innocence. We have been

waiting for the chance to go to court now for 17 months. That was

the first time we were told we would go to court. But I know that

they would not want me to risk my own mental health for that.

there a part of you that feels guilty for being out when they are

still in? Not guilty. The last thing that Shane and Josh said to

me when I was able to say goodbye to them is that they had total

confidence in me to advocate for them. They had joy in their faces.

I know they want me to be out here telling the truth. I am grateful. I

am grateful to be free and alive. What about Iran? What did you think

about Iran before all this happened? To be honest, I was not

at all focused on Iran. I was learning about Syria, learning

Arabic. I was focused on the Arab world. But I am interested in Iran.

It is a fascinating country with an incredible history. I do not

understand how something like this could have happened. How do you

feel about it now? It is very hard to say. One of the things that

really kept us going in prison, through everything we went through,

the endless days, was the feeling, the confidence that we could walk

out unbroken, with our values, the essential parts of ourselves intact

and unchanged. I feel very proud of the fact that I am not bitter or

angry. I see this as a huge misunderstanding. It is a tragic

one. I see that our treatment was cruel. But I do not blame Iranian

people for that in any way. They have been extremely kind to me.

the women prisoners inside were a support to you? Yes, they were.

Even though I could never see them or talk to them, they would sing to

me sometimes in English. They would knock on the wall when I was

screaming and crying. They would shout, I love you Sarah. They

showed me a lot of humanity. Sarah Shourd, thank you for coming on

We got the rain that we needed across England and Wales yesterday.

A really contrasting day today. A much brighter and warmer day across

England and Wales. Different story further north for today. Let's

recap on what we had yesterday. A massive cloud stretching across the

country that has been drifting north over the last few hours.

Clear skies behind it. A little bit misty and drizzly in one or two

places. That rain grinds to a stop in Scotland. With all the cloud

around it will be a much milder start to the morning in comparison

to the ones just past. Temperatures staying in the double figures for

many of us. 12-13 degrees greet us first thing. A mild and cloudy

start and a wet and windy day further north. The cloud will break

up and we will see sunshine coming through and it will eventually feel

quite warm. You will have to wait until the middle of the afternoon a

for that. You can see some decent spells of sunshine coming through

then. To the east of the Pennines it will be a pleasant afternoon. A

high of around 16-18 degrees, perhaps. There will be a little bit

of broken cloud from time to time along the south coast. A dry,

bright and sunny afternoon in the south-west and for much of Wales. A

breeze, perhaps, along the exposed coast, but generally speaking it

will be a pleasant afternoon. More cloud and the risk of a shower up

into the far north of Northern Ireland. Maximum temperatures

around 15 degrees. Into Scotland we will continue to see some pretty

wet weather up into the far north by the middle of the afternoon

accompanied by some strong wind. It will ease away, but those gust of

wind may be up to 60mph. In the Northern Isles in particular as

that rain eases away. As we say goodbye to Monday we will see an

area of low pressure easing away, high pressure taking over. That is

what is in store for Wednesday. Tuesday shapes up to be a lovely

day really - dry, bright and sunny with a high of 23 degrees in the