Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, Winner of 11 Paralympic Gold Medals HARDtalk


Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, Winner of 11 Paralympic Gold Medals

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Now it is time for HARDtalk. Who are the most ambitious, dedicated

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star in the London 2012 Olympics.

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Many more will figure in the Paralympic Games which will follow.

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Thousands of disabled competitors will be straining every sinew not

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just to win gold, but also to convince the world their sporting

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prowess matches that of Usain Bolt and the rest. I talk to Dame Tanni

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Grey-Thompson, who won 11 paralympic golds on the track, and

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is now an influential voice in UK sport. Has the time of the disabled

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When welcome to HARDtalk. Throughout your adult life you

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worry deeply competitive athlete. Then in 2007 you stopped. Has it

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left a hole in your life? Not at all. I was very fortunate that my

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coach was an ex- athlete herself. She was always very influential. In

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terms of all the athletes she coached she said you need something

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to fall back on. You need something to do in retirement. I was very

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fortunate. I got to choose my retirement date. When I had enough,

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that was it. I had 18 months to think about the crossover and what

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else I wanted to do. I had already been quite involved in different

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parts of the sport. I was on the Council of the sports in Wales. It

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gave me a lot of opportunity to think about what else to do.

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still say that you live and breathe it sport. Sports administration -

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and being a key player in UK Athletics - does that give you some

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of the satisfaction it used to come on the track? There is nothing that

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will ever be the same again as competing in front of 95,000 people.

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But I don't want it to be. I get as much enjoyment out of changing

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rules and making sure that athletes coming through are not fighting for

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the things I once... I am as ambitious now as I was as an

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athlete. I would like to talk about some of the fights you have had in

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your life and sporting career, but now I would like to stick to the

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present.Heavily involved in London 2012. You say - "the London

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Olympics greatest legacy is that they will enhance the Paralympic

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movement more than any other host city has done". What makes you so

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confident? I think it is the passion we have for sport in this

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country. We don't lose belief in ourselves that much. Does that

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apply to the Paralympics as well as... Most people would probably

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describe the Olympics as the main event. In 1996 the Lottery Act

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changed because the Olympics were disastrous. We won a single gold

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medal. We had to change. There was nothing in Paralympic sports. This

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meant for the first time that Paralympian could access the same

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funding to train. For us as athlete it put us on a whole new level. If

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you compare us to around the world, we get better media coverage,

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better sponsorship and support. It is about spreading those messages

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to make sure other countries take the steps to come to where we are.

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Before we get into the detail of what other countries are doing when

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it comes to disabled sport, London has recently seen terrible riots.

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There is an international perception that there is a security

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problem in London on its streets. Will that affect the Olympics? You

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worried organiser not just for the Paralympics - but a whole thing.

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don't think the recent events will affect the games. The Sports

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Minister and everyone involved has always said, in terms of security,

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the budget is not going to change. We have always taken security

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really seriously. It has been a dent, though, in confidence? It is

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a challenge - but the UK is still one of the safest countries in the

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world. We have to make sure people feel comfortable. Do you think

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there is a danger that the Paralympics is seen across the

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world as a post script to what we would call the able-bodied

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Olympics? I picked up one statistic the other day - on the last

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Olympics they had over 2000 staff covering the main thing, but five

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people at the Paralympics. That says something, doesn't it? About

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international interest in the sport they were involved in. Absolutely.

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That is where we have an awful lot of work to do. It is bizarre, the

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country - the USA, that has the strongest disabled policies in the

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world, they have good sponsorship for athletes, they are not

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interested in showing the Paralympics. Until the US changes,

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it will be hard to convince the rest of the world. I still get

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people saying things like the real Olympics, the main Olympics...

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can see that might but you. One of your great rivals over the last

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years, a Canadian track athlete in the Paralympics, she has said that

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she believes Equality will be achieved when she is able to

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compete in an integrated Olympics. When her 100 metre sprint in her

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wheelchair is in the Olympic Stadium with all the other events

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that go on in the main Olympics. Is that what you want to see? It would

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be amazing if we could run an integrated games, but the reality

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is different. Why can't you? size - you have 10,000 at the

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Olympics, 5,500 at the Olympics - there is not a city that could hold

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a games of that size. The aesthetically pleasing events,

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wheelchair racing, maybe tennis or swimming, would move over to the

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Olympics, the others would get dumped.... I suppose that if I had

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a chance to compete at the Olympics, there would have grabbed it. But I

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feel a responsibility for the other athletes who would have been dumped

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off the face of the Earth. I'm very interested in that phrase used "as

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they tickly pleasing" is that how easy it? -- alphabetically pleasing.

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I think the public is slightly more comfortable sports we don't see the

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impairment in some way. Wheelchair racing looks like cycling - the

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wheelchair makes it sexier. We have a job to do. The same as in women's

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sport. We have the same job to do - making people watched disabled

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sport. I'm going to come back to sport at the moment. Now I want to

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take you back your child would. I would like to find out what made

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you different. You had spina bifida, there are all sorts of people

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across this country and the world were brought up with a real

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physical problem, difficulties they have to overcome. What made you so

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determined to become an elite athlete? Given the problems he

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faced? I did not face any problems as a child. I couldn't walk until I

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was seven years old and then I was paralysed. They gave me some

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advantages in that I was in the mainstream. My parents worked very

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hard to get me into a mainstream high school. They threatened to sue

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the council of Wales. If it hadn't been for that my life would have

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been very different. I don't think I am different because I am in a

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chair. My stubbornness is a family trait. Stroppy is your description

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of yourself. (LAUGHTER).

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I wonder if sport is an outlet in which that bloody-mindedness can

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have an outlet. You have said you will not be patronised, you will

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not be condescended to. You're going to find a way to express your

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talent and determination and sport was it. I am lucky I found sport.

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If it hadn't been sport it would have been something else. I quite

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enjoyed school and a number of other things I did. It took me a

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long time to find athletics as a sport I was good at. By chance I

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dropped into athletics. I think you're right - it gave me a chance

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to show people - I can do this. It is an interesting question. How

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much of my life is affected by my being in a wheelchair? I wanted to

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prove I could do something because I am in a wheelchair - or was it...

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I think a lot of it was there any way. One thing that has irritated

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you in the past - as you accrued all these gold medals and

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achievements and honours, people have tended to talk of you as

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somebody who is truly brave and courageous. You have bought against

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that. Why? Why do those words but you so much? Because you wouldn't

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call Steve Redgrave's and brave. For 20 years I did something I

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loved. By train full-time, I travelled the world. That is not

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being brave. I think there are a lot of disabled people who are

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brave because there is a lot of discrimination out there. But as an

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Attlee - it is a great life. But up to a point - Steve Redgrave did not

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have to battle the things you did. Even resources. Early in your

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career, when you were going to races you had no resources

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whatsoever. You were representing Wales and you had to share a best

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with another competitor. You only had one vest between you. These are

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things that many athletes ever come up against. Sometimes I found it

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quite amusing. I have quite a dark sense of humour and I like the

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challenge. That side of the sport stopped being a challenge - when

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Even at the end when you were highly honoured and regarded as one

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of the UK's best athletes, was it still a struggle to get resources?

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To get the sport treated in the wake you thought it should be?

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changed during my career. It was miles better by the time I finished,

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but I think there is a long time to go for disabled athletes. When you

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came in the top three in the year 2000, you were third - they wanted

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to bring you up on the stage and they had forgotten to create

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wheelchair access so you couldn't take the prize. Were you furious

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about that? Did you then think that you are battling against something

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that was so much bigger than you? My first thought was that I get to

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take home a call camera. As a young Tron growing up - most athletes

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dream of getting in that position. It was about half an hour

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afterwards when people kept on saying - I am really sorry you

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couldn't get on stage - I thought, you know what... The media backlash

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in the weeks that followed meant I had way more publicity because I

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couldn't get on stage than if somebody had picked me up and shot

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me on board a head men handled me on. It probably did more for my

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career... That was a moment when it became clear that you were a

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national sports star. The idea of sports stars is interesting to me.

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Every sport needs its biggest names. In the Paralympic movement I

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guessed the biggest name is the South African man, Oscar. He lost

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both legs below the knee and he runs on blades. He is called a

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Blade Runner. He is now running so fast that he was disqualified for

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the - and I used the phrase - the able-bodied World Championships. He

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clearly wants to make it against the able bodied top competition.

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You have a problem with that, don't you? I don't have a problem with

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Oscar competing at the Olympics and World Championships - I think that

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is positive. Boarding you - "It is not about his advantage or

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disadvantage, he is just two different". -- quoting you. I think

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of the athletes and the rules accept him, he should be allowed to

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run. What I do think is controversial... Everything we have

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been trying to fight against an to move the Paralympics to be equal

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with the Olympics would be knocked back if Oscar competes in the 400

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metre a couple of weeks later, or chooses not to compete and then

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that event at the Paralympics becomes the event for people who

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were not good enough for the Olympics. That is a very

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fundamentalist view. You are suggesting that he is betraying the

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Paralympic movement by wanting to prove himself against able-bodied

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Any athlete that had the chance to compete at the Olympics, the chance

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is still greater. We used to have demonstration races at the Olympics

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and a number of athletes would only compete there. You clearly see the

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success of the Paralympics as a message to the world about what

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disability means. Surely the image of lining up for a final, even on a

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podium, one that not be the best message about what disability

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means? It is very positive in the Paralympics can gain coverage.

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There are athletes around the world, for example a South African swimmer,

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and Jason Smith from Ireland, it is really positive for them. Does it

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come back to what you were saying earlier, a two Tia Paralympics with

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some sports more attractive. -- two-tier. That is probably the

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reality with the Olympics as well. You will always get that in sport,

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there will always be a hierarchy. Paralympics has fought really hard

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to keep moving forward, trying to get to the level and it would be

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ashamed to throw that away. -- would be a shame. One case raises

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other questions and not the least is the changing nature of

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technology in sport. Your wheelchairs, over the years you

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have been racing, in them, they were redesigned, streamlined,

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aerodynamic and faster. It does raise the question whether of the

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designers, the technicians are more important in your sport than the

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athlete. If your wheelchair is so much more aerodynamic, better

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designed and faster, you are going to win even if you are not the best

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athlete. Even the countries that don't have as much money to spend,

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it is not so much different. It is more different with leg amputations

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and confusion over the technology. Absolutely. A top 400 metre runner

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does not think the story should be there because there is a real

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question about a mechanical advantage from the blades. You

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wonder where this can stop. Prosthetics can become more and

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more by a mechanically Engineer it. The rules do not allow them to

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become bionic. He cannot extend his leg link. -- length. And one

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company talks about blowing the boundary between man and machine. -

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- blurring. You are excited about the potential but technology is

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offering to increase your potential for mobility, all sorts of things.

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Where right think technology is great, companies will develop

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things that the benefit people in a wider context. People injured in

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Afghanistan are being assisted. I know people who have got Bluetooth

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chips in their legs. They can do some amazing things.

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Psychologically and for rehab, that is usually positive. This leads me

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to the thought that really struck me when I was reading about your

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life. You have said that while other people talk about you being

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confined to a wheelchair, you never had that view. It was a positive

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for you. Explain that. When I started to lose the ability to walk,

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a lot of people were obsessed with walking. I could not walk very far,

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I fell over, I could not carry anything, play with my friends. The

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gave me a systems. My parents brought me up to believe that if

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someone had a problem with a wheelchair it is their problem and

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not mine. I should never be embarrassed, apologetic. That

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helped me a lot. Not everyone in a wheelchair comes to it the way I

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did. I have a lot of friends who had dramatic injuries and feel

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differently. Differences between nations, the awareness of

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disability is so different. Do you think this sort of achievement you

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have illustrated in the sporting arena, do they have a knock-on

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effect both inspiring disabled people and also sending a message

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to able-bodied people not to underestimate, patronised disabled

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people. Is there an important message there? I think that is an

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important and secondary message of the Paralympics. The first message

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is to say that it is about sport and the second is to say that

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disabled people can contribute to society. Have you experienced, as

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an international competitor, have you experienced negative treatment?

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I have been pub, prodded. -- poked. It still happens to me sometimes.

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Can you really convince me that the Paralympics can make a difference

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to that in terms of attitude? think it has made a massive

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difference and will continue to do so. When you see disabled athletes

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in public, look around and you see them on posters advertising the

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Paralympics, the link to sponsorship. It starts to make

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people feel that it is more normal, unusual and accepted. It cannot

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change the view of the world but can be positive. The government

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says it will build a post Paralympics legacy for disabled

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sport. Then I hear that support teachers are not given mandatory

:22:28.:22:34.

training on how to get disabled children into mainstream sport. --

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that teachers of sport. If there is anything that I could achieve in

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the laws, that is something I would like to do. Also ensure that

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primary teachers get training in physical education. It is a

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difficult subject. Legacy is such a buzzword when it comes to the

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Olympics. What do you believe the legacy of the Olympics, as far as

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you are concerned with a focus on Paralympics, will be? The immediate

:23:19.:23:24.

increase in the numbers of young people involved like the Wimbledon

:23:24.:23:32.

effect. What is challenging is that everyone is talking about what the

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legacy will be. As soon as the game's finish, it drops off the

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face of the Earth. Then it is down to governing bodies, the government,

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the other home countries to make sure... It is down to your bloody

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mindedness. Will you be as bloody- minded as an administrator as on

:23:57.:24:05.

the track? Absolutely. Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, thank you for being

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Turning pretty chilly out there. Most places will start off the day

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with some sunshine however most places will see increasing cloud

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through the day. Some rain eventually arriving in Wales and

:24:34.:24:38.

south-west England. The sunny start across Wales will change through

:24:38.:24:42.

the day. An increasing amount of cloud so make the most of the

:24:42.:24:45.

bright conditions first thing on. Northern Ireland, some cloud in the

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afternoon. A few showers across western Scotland and they will

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:25:00.:25:06.

develop elsewhere during the day. The north-east will start off sunny.

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In rural areas of England, single digits first thing in the morning.

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Fresh and sunny for eastern England. A cracking start for East Anglia.

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Sunny generally across southern England but in the far south-west,

:25:23.:25:26.

the possibility of a shower or two. Showers will develop across

:25:26.:25:36.
:25:36.:25:41.

northern England and Scotland. Some places will catch a shower. For the

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Midlands and East England it will stay dry. Cooler further west. The

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rain will spread into Wales and south-west England. By eight

:25:58.:26:01.

o'clock we could see some of the rain in the Manchester area so it

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could be a little bit damp for the football. Some of the wettest

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conditions expected across Cumbria as we head into Tuesday. Light rain

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elsewhere. It will be a much milder night. 13, 14 degrees in the south.

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Single digits in Scotland. The wet weather will continue with some

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brightness possible across the south-east. Tuesday is the

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cloudiest day of the week thanks to the weather front. There is a

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