Browse content similar to Sir Stuart Rose, Former CEO of Marks and Spencer. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
new measures will be implemented by 2019. That is it for me. Now it is | :00:04. | :00:14. | |
:00:14. | :00:17. | ||
time for HARDtalk. My guess today is one of the best-known and most | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
successful retailers in Britain. Until this year, he was chairman | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
and before that chief-executive of Marks & Spencer, the shops that | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
sell small clothes than any other in the UK. Recent figures suggest a | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
high street is struggling with sales down, shops closing and | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
confidence low. What are the chances of Britain and the world | :00:39. | :00:49. | |
:00:49. | :01:09. | ||
avoiding putting back into Sir Stuart Rose, welcome to | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
HARDtalk. There are parts of the United Kingdom where one in three | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
shops have closed. The High Street does seem to be a pretty brutal | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
place at the moment, doesn't it? is hard going, no doubt. My old | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
adverse surreal thriller Green told me that things had got very bad. -- | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
my old adversary, Sir Philip Green. If you go for what I have done all | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
my life, self-help, and due order retailer with things that people | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
want to buy and you offer quality and value and service and | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
innovation, you can survive and probably thrive. If you have got | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
none of those things, you will have a tough time. To look at the big | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
picture, even if you make the point that some shops can do all right, | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
do you think the United Kingdom is heading for a double dip recession? | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
No. I have just got back from a cup of coffee with Digby Jones and we | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
both agreed that that was not the case. Many people have an | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
optimistic view. I think we will continue to make slow but steady | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
progress through the rest of 2011 and into 2012 and 2013. I am not a | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
double dip recession man and I have got a track record of saying that. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
The head of Deutsche Bank has said that there has been sealed percent | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
growth this year, shops or under pressure, many people think there | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
is no hope and that things could get worse. I think they're wrong. | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
But, the answer is, we don't really know. Let's look at one of the big | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
drivers of recession. This recession is quite interesting. The | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
trading path of the UK plc is not in bad neck, the balance sheet is | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
in a real mess and then you can get the balance sheet sorted out... | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
There is another factor, companies are doing better in the UK for stop | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
my own company, its balance sheet is doing well. Margins of companies | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
are in good shape. We need something to happen. A lot of this | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
will be driven and should be driven by public confidence. I think the | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
biggest single factor holding back the UK and much of the world is the | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
fear factor and public confidence. That is being hit because people do | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
not have money. They do have money. Look at the plus side, you are | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
talking to an optimist, interest rates are low and people are being | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
squeezed. People are being careful and thoughtful style. -- thoughtful. | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
I was talking to a manufacturer the other day and they were saying that | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
volume has gone down. Turn a negative into a positive and it is | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
different, I accept. A full game goes down, it does not mean people | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
are eating less, it means they are wasting less. -- If of volume was | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
down. A large amount of stuff is thrown away. That has been cut down. | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
We you're an optimist. A lot of people would say that unemployment | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
has gone up. Those are people who will not have money. It has | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
consistently gone up. It has not gone up to the same degree that | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
forecasters predicted. People are taking home next money -- less | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
money. People don't want to take less money for the same job. They | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
have had to and that is why the numbers aren't as bad. People have | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
less money. People are being flexible about how they are dealing | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
with this recession. They're taking part-time jobs and being flexible | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
about their hours. You ask if it is going to be a double dip recession. | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
That is two quarters of negative growth. I don't think that will be | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
the case. I think we will continue to grow. George Osborne will have | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
to reduce his forecast. Before we look at what George Osborne does, | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
one wonders where this growth is coming from. George Osborne is | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
relying on the private sector here. We have seen exports affected | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
because the rest of the world are struggling. The eurozone is having | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
a terrible time, America is struggling, where is the growth | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
coming from? We will have to fall back on traditional strengths. We | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
have to keep supporting. The pound is pretty low and our goods are | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
quite affordable overseas. I don't know the answer, in truth. I am | :05:52. | :06:02. | |
more optimistic than you are. the UK, a financial body has said | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
it expects 0.3 % growth in the last quarter of the year was a good | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
contract by as much as 1%. It could. You say that the Chancellor has | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
said that growth will not be as he had hoped. He went on to say that | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
he will stick to his plans for dealing with the deficit. Which is, | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
the word always used in the UK, austerity. Is she right to do so? | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
think so. I am right -- consistent about this. As a retailer, for me | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
to support the increase in VAT, that was a brave thing to do. I | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
think we're doing the right thing. I think it will be proved to be | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
right. Let's take the political side, if you're going to deliver | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
bad news, you might as well do it early on. It is like going to a | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
doctor. Would rather get the truth then the bad -- the truth and the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
bad news or would you rather people do everything was fine and then | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
produce afterwards it was not. I am not a member of the Conservative | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
Party. Many people will change their position. They will say that | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
it is a Yallourn and growth has not materialised. Alistair Darling has | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
said it will strangle the economy. -- it is one year on. He would say | :07:24. | :07:30. | |
that, wouldn't he? The economy is still growing. It may be growing in | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
a sluggish way but it has not gone negative. It is still growing. | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
America, countries and the eurozone, they are ending up going to be | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
finding themselves in the same position as the UK, forced to take | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
austerity measures. The good news for the UK is that we are separate | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
from Europe. We are dependent for exports and some imports, we are | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
important Lelant, but what the Government has done will serve the | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
UK in good stead. -- importantly linked. The issue about Europe is | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
quite simple. If you talk to a German businessman, they will tell | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
you privately, they have done pretty well on the last few years | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
about the fact the euro has been lost. The German economy is doing | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
well. The issue for Angela Merkel is domestic politics. Are they | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
going to be like the rest of Europe, and tell the rest of Europe they | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
will do that, much as they did for East Germany, or will they just | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
continue as they are? Germany has done very well. All the forecasts | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
are, poured from your own, it is not going to. Germany could be most | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
affected. -- apart from your own. You mentioned America. People talk | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
to me about America. Never underestimate two things. Never | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
underestimate deep ingenuity of former Sapience, almost Fabians got | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
us into this speech. -- the ingenuity of human beings. Human | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
beings got us out of this before. Also, never underestimate America, | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
Uncle Sam. They could surprise us all. We do not rather wake up every | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
morning being optimistic rather than pessimistic, I ask you? | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
said you supported the Government when they raised VAT up to 20 %. | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
You still support them in that. Is it not harming the High Street? | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
a different government had done it, I don't believe that if the Labour | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
Party had won the last election they would not have done that. | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
it Harminder High Street? I don't think so. I think it is tough | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
medicine. -- harming the High Street. If we get through 11 and 12, | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
next year, don't underestimate the impact of the Olympics, that will | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
lift the nation's spirits, that will mean beer through the worst | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
and can move on. It is uncomfortable to have a bit of | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
inflation at the moment. I believe that the deficit will come down | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
sharply. We will see the impact of the austerity measures and what VAT | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
has done. I think by the time you get to the end of 2012, 15-18 | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
months away, you will see a better economy. Despite the deficit? | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
coming down now. Do you think the Government can meet its targets? | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
Surely it cannot do it by the end of the Government. I think the | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
original target was to reduce it by half. But with the last government. | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
Alistair Darling was going to reduce by half. The coalition have | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
said they hope to eradicate it. They may or they may not. It will | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
come down by a substantial margin. They will be in a significantly | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
better position by the time of the next election. -- we will. | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
economists wrote a letter in the Financial Times saying the top rate | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
of tax should be scrapped because it is damaging. I don't understand | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
the academic research that they have done to develop that case. It | :11:18. | :11:26. | |
is absolutely and no no. How can I explain to my secretary that I am | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
having less tax on my income and hers is not going down? The Prime | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
Minister put that on the back- burner effectively and that is what | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
it should be. I am happy to pay extra tax will the UK is in | :11:40. | :11:48. | |
difficulty. When you hear the likes of Warren Buffett offering, other | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
top businessmen is well, all of these people... You keep saying all | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
these big Eddie Wade names. What they are proposing is that they | :12:01. | :12:09. | |
give tax more. -- heavy weight. I am a bigger pay more tax. I am | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
paying extraying extra VAT and for other goods and services. As is | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
everyone else and the country. You are a wealthy man, should you be | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
taxed more? I am happy to have a debate about that. Should you be | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
taxed more, let's have the debate. It Warren Buffett has set very | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
publicly, takes a more money from me. Would you say that? Let's look | :12:32. | :12:40. | |
at that the other way round. I am a free market economist. I believe in | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
a free market. I believe the penal rates and tax he had before | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Margaret Thatcher have reduced it is wrong. I believed that that | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
reduction was the right thing. If, in the short-term, the occasion was | :12:52. | :12:59. | |
made for me to pay more than 50 % tax and it would pay the -- help | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
the UK, I would be prepared to do that. I would be prepared to do | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
that. Are you prepared to go further and do but Warren Buffett | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
has done and stepped forward and put their hand up... I am not that | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
type of public figure but, yes. is interesting because we have not | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
seen many British businessman come forward in the way that they have | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
an say the main thing. Maybe we should ask them more. What is it? I | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
wonder if it is a Dutch cultural thing. -- cultural thing. We should | :13:33. | :13:40. | |
not forget where we came from. you go back to go be started, even | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
from iced started work in the 1970s that until today, over a 40 year | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
period, we are all better off. There is a price to be paid for | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
that. If that price is that you have to pay more tax then fine. | :13:55. | :14:04. | |
He said how could you explain to your secretary wider tax rate was | :14:04. | :14:13. | |
being reduced. I wonder how you explained to you Secretary their | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
huge pay-out when you left. When you left, I do left with �8 million. | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
You have been criticised for being paid very large sums. I am not here | :14:25. | :14:35. | |
to debate this. What the calculation is 8 million - the �8 | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
million is a theoretical amount of money that I could have got. In | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
reality, the actual amount of cash is actually very much less. I have | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
left cash in Marks & Spencer showing I have belief in the | :14:49. | :14:56. | |
business. I got paid well. You were the best paid executive chairman. I | :14:56. | :15:06. | |
:15:06. | :15:08. | ||
was running the business. I branded business on a day-to-day basis. I | :15:08. | :15:15. | |
think this is very interesting. The man who wrote the report sent that | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
companies should comply or they should explain. He didn't say | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
comply or else. The company explained at the time. What we | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
would do come off for the record, is that since we don't have the | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
chief executive at the moment, we will move Stuart Rose up as an | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
option. We will then hire a chief executive, which we did. We then | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
hired a chairman. I have not run the company since I left in | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
December. In the meantime, the business has done fine. What I want | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
to ask you is that the question of your pay. You may not like talking | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
about you pay. You made the point that my conscience is entirely | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
clear. I am very happy. Don't you ask yourself why nobody will defend | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
you? Pay has not become a fashionable issue. I do not believe | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
the pay that I have received, I don't know what the number was, let | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
us assume that it was �2 million, was enough to run a 10 billion | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
Corporation. I don't believe that was unreasonable. One of the things | :16:29. | :16:39. | |
that we have seen is an incredible trained in Paris. When you... Would | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
you tell us what you were paid when you start third, when you took over | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
as chief executive in 2000 m for? Are probably earned more because I | :16:49. | :16:57. | |
had a signing on fee. It is not a very relevanry relevan. If you do | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
well, the argument is you should get paid. When you look at how you | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
judge value of what you have added to a company, he turned the company | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
around but you got add tremendous Arad of plaudits for that. In the | :17:12. | :17:19. | |
years before you left, it was not doing too well. We have to | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
separates Stuart Rose and the Marks & Spencer issued from the recession. | :17:25. | :17:33. | |
The company did extremdid extremp to the end of 2007. Like every | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
other company, it suffered. If you compare our share price, the high | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
point and low-point, I don't think it'll be very different to where it | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
was higher order it was low. We are in a pretty difficult hole. You | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
started your interview by saying it was difficult. Retail analysts and | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
not telling people to Rashad empire retail stocks at the moment and | :17:58. | :18:08. | |
that is why it is low. -- to buy its retail stocks. Mark took over | :18:08. | :18:15. | |
from year on a very high package. We can debate that. He failed to | :18:15. | :18:24. | |
put out one thing. There were �4 billion of dividends. I think I was | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
worth every penny in terms of the effort and time I put in. I would | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
defend myself absolutely. Those on the shopfloor would say... If you | :18:34. | :18:41. | |
talk to them,... What I ask about you, would they think they were | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
worth more. Everybody thinks they are worth more. Any time I could | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
say I have one to be paid more. Everybody believes they are worth | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
more. An awful lot of the women do. An awful lot of a man are not | :18:57. | :19:04. | |
getting paid the same amount as the men they are working alongside. Why | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
do you think Marks & Spencer is a rarity? We are told there is a pay | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
gap of 15.5 %. It is not true. It is an historic thing, which is bad. | :19:19. | :19:29. | |
:19:29. | :19:31. | ||
Is it not true? Are very is a pay gap? There ip? There ip. If you | :19:31. | :19:38. | |
take the proper companies, I don't think that is the case. You having | :19:38. | :19:44. | |
an accountant doing the job in- company X. I think men and women | :19:44. | :19:53. | |
are paid the same. We don't pay them different rates of pay. I am | :19:53. | :20:02. | |
with you. I am against it. Female managers are paid less than men | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
doing the same job. If they are doing exactly the same job and they | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
have the exact same length of service and benefits, it is wrong. | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
Why is it happening? It is hard to get rid of historic issues. You | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
ca caall women's pay up by 30% overnight. You would have a | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
massive problem. Over time, they would catch up. There is | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
transparency in large companies today. What about lower down? What | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
a bad if you are not on the board? There should be transparency. They | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
should be open pay scales. Is it right and proper that Mary knows | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
:21:01. | :21:02. | ||
wh whows what Philippi is earning. Identity that is right. -- | :21:02. | :21:12. | |
:21:12. | :21:13. | ||
people doing the same job for study could be a girl, not a boy. There | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
should be a marriage scale or whether you are and eight graded | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
person or a be graded person. apart from the fact that you have | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
more equality then you could ever deal with come up there is really | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
no glass ceilings. There are a glass ceilings in some companies. I | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
think it has two sides to the glass. Women feel they can't get through. | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
I don't believe that. I have worked for women twice in my career - two | :21:46. | :21:56. | |
women bosses. It was great. Do you think women learn too much? I think | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
there is a slight feeling from themselves - I can't do it, or at I | :22:02. | :22:09. | |
am a woman. Look at some of these were men. She had four and five | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
children and ran a job. It is a little bit of a Pope issued there. | :22:17. | :22:27. | |
:22:27. | :22:27. | ||
I don't need it is as big an issue as people make out. We should | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
explain, Mervyn is one of the company's that has been asked to | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
make it clear what their plans are about women. Only eight came | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
forward with plans. Marks & Spencer was one of them. Marks & Spencer | :22:43. | :22:52. | |
have women on its board for a long time. It is odd. Or perhaps it | :22:52. | :23:02. | |
:23:02. | :23:02. | ||
isn't? We could debate this. A short debate is that women are as | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
good as men. They seem to be better organised and just as able as men. | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
If you had a man and a woman and 21 of them was better than the other, | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
you should not be promoting the woman just because she is a woman. | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
I do believe in equal opportunity. You have given up a job at Marks & | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
Spencer. It is a very high profile role. You enjoyed the limelight. | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
You are an outspoken man. What are you going to do next that is going | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
to satisfy? satisfy? oing to be a box sticker. I don't know what I am | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
going to do. My father retired 25 years ago and he felt he was ready | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
to retire. We will exercise and to live better. I am not ready to hang | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
my boots up. I am looking for something to do. I am a remarkably | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
busy unemployed man. I had five days off in August when everyone | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
:24:15. | :24:34. | ||
seemed to have the whole month. The gales swept in on the Atlantic | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
during Monday cannot bring him problems to the northern parts of | :24:38. | :24:48. | |
:24:48. | :24:48. | ||
the UK. -- bringing problems. The warnings have downgraded on Tuesday. | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
Potentially one or two problems. You will need to take some care out | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
there but not as windy as it was. Some pretty big gusts coming | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
through northern parts of England. Also across Wales. Those winds | :25:03. | :25:11. | |
bring in one or two showers as well. A largely dry story for Northern | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
Ireland. Still a pretty windy start to the day. The rain likely to | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
become an increasing problem across many north-western parts of | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
Scotland - heavy and persistent across many parts of the Highlands. | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
Still blowing through the central belt. Some care needed on the north | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
and south roads for high-sided vehicles. We come out of the | :25:35. | :25:45. | |
:25:45. | :25:46. | ||
sunshine and into the cloud. One or two showers heading into London. | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
Driven on quite quickly by does brisk winds. They will not last | :25:52. | :26:02. | |
that long. That rate never gives up across north-west Scotland. Perhaps | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
into the Glasgow area come the afternoon. Those winds coming | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
through. Very unpleasant with that combination of wind and rain. Might | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
just squeeze up to 20 degrees in the far south-east of England. As | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
we go through the night time he read, a Tuesday night into | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
Wednesday, the winds definitely showing signs of easing down by the | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
end of the night. Just one or two showers. A few clear spells as well. | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
Most places holding in double figures. Just dipping 28-9 across | :26:37. | :26:46. | |
northern Scotland. A quiet Day on Wednesday. Not a huge amount of | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
sunshine on Wednesday. Temperatures near the mid-September average. | :26:55. | :27:01. |