HARDtalk on the Road in Egypt Part 2 - Economy HARDtalk

dollars of the budget deficit. Egypt is in turmoil. A power-

struggle between the military and the people is playing out on the

streets. HARDtalk is on the road in a country desperate for a fresh

start. A political and economic. Revolution carries a price. Are

Egyptians ready to pay it? People here want radical change,

not just in politics, but in the economy also. Workers are pushing

for better pay and conditions. The jobless are demanding work. And

everyone wants to see an end to the era of endemic corruption. The

revelation faces a fundamental challenge. Can it deliver a new

economic deal for Egypt? Slowly, painstakingly, Egyptians

are trying to piece together a new nation. The politically free,

economic clear revitalised. -- economically. This fact we ought to

be an inspiration. The family-run business employs more than 1,000

workers, turning out fabrics and furniture exported to a host of the

world's best known stores. For 20 years, the founder has backed his

faith in Egypt's economic potential by investing his own money. But

since January, overseas orders have fallen by up to 50%. International

partners are worried. Is the continuing revolutionary turmoil

bad for business? Welcome to HARDtalk. The last year

in Egypt has been a time of turmoil. A sense of uncertainty and

instability. Has that affected the business climate? Foreshore. This

situation is very difficult for us to read what is coming. Most of the

Egyptian people stopped making any new investment. They are afraid of

what is coming. All of them are saying, wait until everything has

settled. We have not seen any improvement because nobody wants to

make any decisions right now. has been over many years a

consistent message that Egypt is being held back by corruption at

the top, by the need for kickbacks and sweeteners and bribes to be

paid to government officials. Everyone knows that it is not easy

getting your licence, your permissions to do easy work. There

is always someone asking for something in to give you your

licence. You can spend a few years waiting to start work. Did you have

to offer sweeteners? Without offering these you will never move

it forward. You have to pay to get your rights. This is what the

problem was. It strikes me that fall of the political excitement

around Tahrir Square and the revolution, this is the real front

line because if Egypt can't fix its economy, offered jobs, particularly

to young people, then this revolution can't succeed. You are

right 100%. We need to depend on young people more in the future. We

need to completely change with the new generation. We need to give

them a different education. Vocational education. Training,

supporting them to lead, giving them the right standard of living.

We have talked about uncertainty affecting the business climate. Is

it affecting the way you are looking at your business right now?

Yes it is. I started a project one- and-a-half years ago and I invested

�18 million -- Egyptian pounds in a factory close to hear. All of the

machines and everything is ready to go. But we have to wait for the

cables for the electricity. I have paid so much to start that up.

can't start the project because there are so much uncertainty?

are right. This is a fact. 240 new jobs there. But I'm afraid to start

it. This situation, I don't know what will happen. Thank you.

200 metres from his business, graphic evidence of Egypt's

economic malaise. A factory closed, now derelict. In Egypt, grit has

stalled and unemployment is right - - unemployment is rising. With its

mean streets hugging the Mediterranean shore, Alexandria can

still evoke memories of a golden age of cosmopolitan prosperity. But

head away from the sea into the city's poorer neighbourhoods and

you enter a very different world. In this neighbourhood in Alexandria,

it is one of the poorest parts of the city. I have been invited here

by local people to see how ordinary people have to live in Alexandria.

We will go into the depths of the neighbourhood. It is very narrow.

What we have our families living in a desperate conditions. Here, there

is a family of six living in one room. We go into the neighbourhood

a bit further. We find a toilet. This toilet have to serve the

entire building. There are dozens of people reliant on this one

toilet. If we go a bit further, this lady has lived for 30 years

she says inside his room with her family. This 27-year-old has lived

here all his life. He is out of Four out of every 10 Egyptians live

in poverty. For under a dollar a day. 50% of this nation's wealth is

in the hands of an elite 5% of the population. If the revolution is to

mean anything for the people who live in this neighbourhood, those

numbers will have to change and change fast. The uncomfortable

truth about the period since the Mubarak regime was toppled is that

economic circumstances for people around here have not gotten better.

Egypt's grim economics and turbulent politics come together.

One of Egypt's strict Islamist parties is selling cheap meat to

the needy. The upcoming Parliament election is clearly in mind. Beef

is sold for little more than half the normal shop price. Is this the

opportunist politics of poverty? have been doing this a long time,

but we were prevented by the authorities. They have been aiming

us to give us a bad image in the media. Giving charity to people and

giving them cheap food giving us a good image. That is bad for the old

authority. The critics would say you are exploiting the poverty of

the people to buy their votes with cheap food. Is this your way of

buying votes? We have been doing this for 30 years. We had done this

before but went to jail. Everyone knows this. One votes were we

buying them? Maybe he wed buying boats then, but you are buying

boats now. If you're doing the same job, the same thing, what is the

change? But it is a very strange form of democracy if your main

attraction to the people is to say, vote for this party and we will

give you cheap food. That is not a strong political argument. We are

not only giving food but help. What are the other parties doing?

Nothing. They might be saying slogans but you don't find them

doing anything. Across Egypt, levels of economic discontent are

rising. A recent poll found 40% of people saying it was very hard to

get by on their current income. A wave of industrial unrest is

sweeping the country. Arriving in Cairo, I find riot police barring

access to a government ministry. The reason is a strike over pay and

conditions. The very police man reviled for brutalising democracy

protesters have now themselves taken to the streets. They want

more pay and better conditions. They have blocked the road outside

the Interior Ministry. I will talk to some of them and see what they

grievances are. Why are the policeman so unhappy? We don't have

How much money do you get for one What about the SCAF? De believe

they will help you will not? -- in The police are in revolt. Nothing

better sums up the economic chaos of Egypt after the revolution. This

is 1,000 km south of Cairo. Life unfolds at a different pace.

Dictated by the grace and beauty of the Nile. Even here, a chill

economic wind is blowing. Tourism has been hard hit since the

revolution. Numbers are down by more than one-third. Cruise boats

are tied up. In the long run, the revolution may

be remaking Egypt but in the short run, it has been extraordinarily

bad for the tourism business. Political upheaval, tension and

street violence have kept many visitors and their wallets away

from the country. Here on the Nile and made all of the wonderful

ancient antiquities, those ed.

This table is an extraordinary monument to ancient Egyptian

artistry. -- temple. These days, you don't have to endure heeding --

heaving crowds to see it. We found out the Egyptians were possibly the

first in the history to explore the Nile. The tour guides are still

here, their stories are compelling, but the audiences are small. How

would you describe the last year? Particularly the months since the

revelation -- revolution in terms of business? Very difficult. It is

an intermediate period. Things are not stable. They started to get

better for a while but it has its But is it because there is such a

sense of uncertainty? People normally go where they feel safe.

You would not take your kids way you do not feel safe. Media focus

on Egypt so whatever happens here shows within minutes around the

world. People hope that will change. When a tourist numbers are down, it

has a huge impact, not just on particular sites like this bar one

of the wider economy. The first time any tourist things of visiting

a country like Egypt, he makes his booking. The money goes to a

company. He takes taxis, he buys from shops, he goes to restaurants.

That money goes straight from his pocket to these people that he

needs every day or every other day. What do you want from the next

generation of Egyptian leaders? People that feel the pain of the

people. To know that at least 40% of Egyptians live under the poverty

line. To know that there are a lot of problems in the educational and

medical fields. You have been through tough times in your

business and city. There is still a sense of uncertainty here? Are you

optimistic? Ferry. There is no 100% trust -- ferry. You cannot get that.

No. The Mubarak dynasty than Egypt as a family business. Swiss banks

froze hundreds of millions of dollars in his account. They

embrace capitalism, are on their terms. -- Butt. Now the cracks are

beginning to show. There is wealth in Egypt but it has not spread. The

old economic order looks increasingly unsustainable. Now,

when one of the country's richest men, whose family founded a big

conglomerates, looks out of his suite and sees a city convulsed by

political violence and a future shrouded in uncertainty. Welcome to

HARDtalk. Thank you. Does Egypt need an economic revolution?

but we are now at a standstill. We cannot have a revolution when you

do not have a government that is sustainable. We are waiting for the

elections to choose a new government. How can we have a

revolution it economically if you do not have the government to share

in this? So you are suggesting for the ten months since the free --

revolution, the country has been in a limbo? Exactly. It is difficult

for anybody to achieve anything. Nobody is signing anything. It

could be misunderstood. We suffer, from democracy, because we cannot

justified approvals. Nothing is being done. Who is going to invest

in a country that has a temporary government that is very weak? It

has gone back on many of its investment promises to investors

who came on good faith. It seems across the country a groundswell of

support for the idea of reversing some of the economic liberalisation

policies we saw in the years of the Mubarak regime, because people

believe those policies were a form of crony capitalism. His family

were helping their friends. They want to see those policies undone.

That is fair enough, isn't it? Egypt has adapted the free economic

pattern. We have adapted and Investment... Let's say an active

role for investors to come and provided the environment to create

jobs... But there wasn't free. It was based upon corruption. We now

know of the corrupt deals was part of every day... How do you know

that? How else can you explain that there are hundreds of millions of

US dollars in bank accounts of the Mubarak family? Somebody was

putting it there. Most of this is outside of the privatisation

programme. When he talked to someone who knows the system or

invested in it. I am not here to defend the Mubarak family. Are we

have never been subjected to any pressure to make any payments to

any member of his family. You never had to pay sweeteners to get

permits ordeals? You run the biggest telecommunications business

in this country. We are industrialists. Most of our work

has been built on building factories. We did not participate

in the privatisation programme. We have built everything from scratch.

You still need permits. On the low level. It was never a political

licence. Your plea for greater entrepreneurial spirits and for new

investment, overseas and domestic, how is there going to be delivered

when your first point to me was that this economy is in limbo,

there is no leadership or strategy and nobody knows where this economy

is going. It is not going to happen. This country will go bust in a few

months. Who is going to invest when you do not have stability? You do

not have a democratically elected governments, the police are on

strike, the lawyers and judges are on strike. UK into Egypt with the

most attractive time. -- UK. are smiling but you have just said

the most disturbing thing. You said this country is going bust. That

means the revolution is going to go bust as well. If the economy goes

down, all the dreams of the Egyptian people... Because the

revolution and the people here should give Egypt a break. They

should stop demonstrating and striking. The country cannot afford

to give them anything. With respect, it is easy for you to say here on

the 26th floor of the finest Office building in Cairo and Sami people

who have virtually nothing have to stop demanding more. I would

understand demonstrating for something. It is not lawyers,

judges, engineers, doctors, factory workers. People from the telephone

company striking have the highest salaries in any public sector. If

any people in the poor slums strike I understand. The nurses people of

Egypt are the poorest. -- nicest. They do not complain. They take a

lot of hardship. The ones who once more are the ones who have. We need

to give the country a break to survive. Do you think survival is

at stake now? There is a real possibility this country could go

under. We did not see any of the $30 billion from the European

community. We have seen nothing from that. The Arab countries have

talks a lot about that bar have not done that yet. Why? In my opinion

they do not want this revolution to succeed. If it succeeds, it is like

a disease. Anything today is better than where we were. It is a great

country. We will rise again. We will get out of this. I am not

upset with the government or the Army. I am upset with my people. If

he wants to change this country, people have to change. -- you want.

You cannot go out and work for three hours a day and say you do

not have any money. How long will it take to change the people? Thank

you for being on HARDtalk. Tahrir Square is once again full of

the fines. The protesters's goal is to end military rule -- defies.