David Millar HARDtalk


David Millar

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Transport for London says it is trying to get as many services as

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possible to run. It is time for HARDtalk. Cycling is one of the

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most physically demanding of professional sports. It is also one

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of the most tainted. In the last decade a host of top riders have

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been exposed as drugs cheats, HARDtalk's guest was one of them.

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David Millar held the Tour de France yellow jersey and was a

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world champion before he was busted. Banned for two years he then came

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back, committed not just to racing but to cleaning up cycling. But is

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there room for integrity in a world where winning is everything? David

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Millar, welcome to HARDtalk. You are an elite professional cyclist.

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You are now 34. You have put yourself through the Tour de France

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again. Do you care about winning any more? I think that is a natural

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state for any professional athlete, you care whether you win, for your

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team, for your team-mates. If we are not winning we are not doing

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our job. So winning matters for you today as much as it ever did? When

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you were a young lad setting up a prodigious talent, it is the same

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feeling? If I didn't have that ambition or desire to achieve

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success, which is winning, I wouldn't be doing it and I would

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love it so much. I wouldn't work so hard and I wouldn't go through the

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suffering. Suffering is the key word that I hear from cyclists a

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lot. When you say suffering, do you mean mental or physical anguish?

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The two. It is an integral part of professional cycling - there is a

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huge amount of physical suffering and there is obviously mental

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suffering. A lot of the time you are hanging on for dear life

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waiting for the guy in front of you to crack. Once he cracks the race

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other and waiting for the guy next to us to crack before you do. A lot

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of the time it doesn't happen. have been through more than a

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decade of professional suffering as a cyclist. I would like to go back

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to the beginning of your career as a boy and a young man. You clearly

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had a talent for racing your bicycle. What was it that pushed

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you towards the idea that you could make a life of that, a career?

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Dreaming more than anything. Watching the Tour de France and

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realising it was possible... That the sport existed at that level -

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we could go do it full-time and get paid for it. When I was young it

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y or glory - I wanted to do the Tour

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de France. I thought it was an epic thing, something so magnificent and

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other-worldly. It was idealistic and sort of, yeah, it was a dream.

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And this is a loaded word, but were you arrogant enough, in the early

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years of your career, to believe you could be the best? Push

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yourself all the way, win the Tour de France? For sure, I think

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arrogance - you have to have an element of arrogance to you as a

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young sportsman if you want to achieve. If you want to become - if

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you want to get into the elite level. Just to get in, let alone

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remain there. You have to go against the grain in many ways.

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There you were, a cocksure young man. You were good and you knew you

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were good and you believed you could be at the top of this sport

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one day. At what time did you realise that a lot of the riders

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around you were using illegal drugs to enhance their performance?

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Almost immediately when I turned professional. It was quite obvious

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that there was doping going on. om

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seeing suspicious behaviour - ice being delivered to rooms. Asking

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why ice was being delivered to rooms. Asking, why does my room-

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mate need ice? And they would just say, oh, it is to keep the EPO cool.

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That was the drug of choice at the time. I didn't want to believe

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there was any doping. At the time it wasn't in the media. There had

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not been any real big drug scandals. This is before the scandal in 1998.

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To come into this world and have all my dreams shattered and realise

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that doping was prevalent was shocking. You have written about

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this a lot. On one ride with a training team-mate you asked him

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what sort of difference can EPO make. He said it could turn a

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donkey in to a racehorse. That's the truth. Doping is abuse, but it

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was amazing there were different degrees of abuse. Some guys would

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do it to just tweak a little bit, other guys would literally take as

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much as they possibly could, risking their health and pushing

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the limits of what was possible. Those guys were the guys who were

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turning themselves... They became racehorses. You were not a donkey -

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you were a thoroughbred. Very early on, you led the Tour de France. You

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had the yellow jersey. I am trying to establish the kind of mindset

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that put you over the edge from having consistently, for a number

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of years, saying you would not take drugs because you believe you can

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win without them, to then deciding - you know what, I will take the

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EPO. I will become a cheat. This is what is so hard to explain and it

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is why I wrote the book. I want people to understand the

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accumulation of factors that kind of pushed me towards doping for the

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first time. In all honesty there is not one thing I can pinpoint.

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Didn't you push yourself? Oh, yes, I pushed myself - as I said, there

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was an accumulation of factors. It was only ever me that made the

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decision. The buck stops with me. In all honesty, I gave up. I

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stopped fighting being clean. It was like I was really standing my

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ground and being stubborn. It almost felt like I was being

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idealistic for nothing. Nobody cared if I was clean or not. Even

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your own team manager? At one point they used the phrase, after you had

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a catastrophic 2001 Tour, you had to retire in the Alps - they told

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you to go off and "prepare properly". And you said you knew

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what they meant. I completely knew what they meant. There was a lot of

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innuendo. To "prepare properly" at that time meant to take drugs. To

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say that you may have well have said - OK David, you're going to go

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and take EPO. Did you ever think of saying no? I said no for years.

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What is interesting is that you stopped saying no after you had a

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reverse. You were one of the young greats of the Tour de France and

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you had just had a serious setback. Maybe your pride was injured - you

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wanted to get to the top. It was hurt. I wanted to be what people

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expected me to be. I was aspiring to expectations - there was a lot

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of ego involved. There was pride. There was the desire for glory.

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Funnily enough, money didn't come into it. It was an ego thing in

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many ways. To not let down the people around me. There were many

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things involved. You won as a cheat. You won a terrific World

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Championship time-trial in 2003, on drugs. I dominated it. During the

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race I knew I had won it. It was just ticking boxes. It was business

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time - there were none of the raw sensations that you are supposed to

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get from the sport. It is supposed to be pure, existential, but as

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soon as I was taking drugs, especially to that degree - I was

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firing on all cylinders. It was too easy and I knew I was cheating. I

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knew that all I was there for was to win. When you stood on the

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podium, you got the garlands and the big prize, what did you feel?

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Oh, not much. Not much at all. Empty? There was not much feeling.

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You were always a smart young man, you had many options in your life.

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You chose to go down the path of cycling because you could. Because

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you were articulate and bright, why, at that point, did you not decide,

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voluntarily, to confess? To stop going down that path that was not

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satisfying? I couldn't do it. I didn't have the courage to do it.

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It was an endgame situation. If we are going back to the pride and ego

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- I would be destroyed. This image that people have of me. I would be

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disliked. That was something I was scared of doing. It was almost a

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self- sabotage, the fact that I kept those last two old syringes in

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my bookshelf. I wanted to get caught. I had to have them catch me.

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The big question for David Millar is - if the French police hadn't

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busted you in 2004, partly because they got information from your

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team-mate, if they hadn't busted you, would you ever have confessed?

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I can't - I don't know. There was a high chance that, no, I wouldn't

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have. I don't think I would have been alive now, judging by what

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happened to some of the other guys. I was on a downward spiral already,

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emotionally and I was tormenting myself in many ways. I was a very

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unstable person. I think if I hadn't - if the French police

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hadn't stepped in and society's governors hadn't taken control the

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situation I would have destroyed myself. Although I wouldn't have

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admitted it, I would have burnt that flame a little too long.

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one hell of a world, isn't it? Where the people were managing you,

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supposed to be nurturing you and responsible for you are watching

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you going down that spiral and, frankly, far from preventing it -

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are encouraging you. That has been one of my biggest things in regards

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to coming back into the sport and trying to be proactive in educating

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people on my experiences. One of the things that cut me up the most

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with what happened to me was that it was preventable. It shouldn't

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have happened to me. That angered me so much that the people who were

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supposed to look after me as a young man didn't. They did the

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opposite - that is something that I have always remembered. Is it

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personal? Are there particular individuals who you feel would have

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been happy to watch you, in your own words, come very close to,

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frankly, ending it all? Yeah. I don't have any anger towards

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individuals, as such - I have anger that it could have happened, that's

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all. This has happened to many other guys with people around them,

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different personalities and backgrounds. It is a generic thing,

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which is worse, almost. As I said - you never confessed voluntarily. In

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the end it was forced out of you and then you told all because the

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police got you. You only got a 2- year ban. Some people think because

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you didn't confess voluntarily you should have been banned forever.

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understand their opinions. Bradley Wiggins, a very successful rider

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who has always insisted that getting drugs out of sport has to

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be a priority says that cheats should be locked up - imprisoned.

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And that happens now in Europe. It is criminal to dope in France,

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Spain, Italy, Belgium. That is in the last few years that has

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happened. You get locked up now, briefly. But I think it is easy to

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lose track of the big picture. We are sportsmen. There is a certain

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vengeance to this idea of lifetime bans. I think every person has the

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right to rehabilitation and a second chance. I know that is

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personal opinion because of what happened to me - but I think other

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people can do it. That might be naive of me, but I think everybody

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should be given a chance to You have already told me you care

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enormously about cleaning up the sport. This bores of yours can

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never be cleaned up as long as one huge shadow remains, the shadow of

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Lance Armstrong, possibly the greatest cyclist ever -- this sport.

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There is so much controversy about his alleged use of drugs. This is

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what the federal investigation in the US is about at the moment.

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Lance Armstrong has consistently denied using drugs and has said

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every test he has taken has never proven that he took an illegal

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substance. Unfortunately that is a whole period in the history of

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cycling that has a large shadow. We have to give it closure and maybe

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this investigation will give a closure. I want us to move forward.

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That is what I want to do with my team and myself personally. I do

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not want to spell my whole career a dwelling on the last decade. --

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spend. This is about the entire credibility of the sport. He is the

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one cyclist that people can name. He epitomised the courage and

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strength of the sport. He made these for what it is. My team

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exists because of him. We are Americans with the American

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sponsors. That is because of his effect. That is a negative effect

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of the shadows and the allegations I think as some point I hope we

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will get closure. Otherwise that will go on forever. Maybe I need

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you to be honest with me about what you mean by closure. You have

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written quoting veteran of riders, saying in the 1990s and to

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thousands it was not possible to win the three-week ruling Tour de

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France without taking substances. Is that what you believe? That was

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the wide opinion. I believe that, that is why I took drugs. I thought

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the only way to achieve greatness was by taking drugs. So use they

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whole generation -- so you see -- has been painted by that Rush?

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There are guys who are going to be tested to do not deserve bed.

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Although there is widespread doping, there are also people who are

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achieving incredible things clean. They were rare but it was happening.

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Unfortunately those guys are going to get tarnished. Look at the sides.

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I know you have studied this closely. Any cyclist cares about

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how the human body works. There are two scientists who have studied the

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physiology of cycling in detail and they say the top performances of

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the 1990s exceeded the physiological capacity of human

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beings. That is professional cycling. We do exceed the

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capabilities of human beings. It is nonsense to do a three-week stage

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race. Doing that clean now... respect they are doing it slower

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now. You can pose as many numbers on it as you want. -- perk. -- out.

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-- put. A leaving aside that investigation, you had a long

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conversation with Lance or Armstrong. He believed he did not

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do enough. Why did you say that? is a phenomenal human being. His

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legacy with his foundation... I believe that whatever he has or has

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not done, he has so much power and influence and I naively believed he

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could change the sport for the better. That is why I wanted him to

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make these for a new sport. Do you think he has mess that obligation?

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-- make this sports a new sport. think so. I always think he could

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do more. He is Lance Armstrong, he is a once off. You race the Tour de

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France this year. You are a respected member of the cyclist to

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do the tour on the professional circuit. 10 you say you believe the

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professional racers are now stress and honest cap -- can he say?

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will always be cyclist who do doping. An Austrian a cyclist who

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was third in the Tour de France three years ago says there are ways,

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sophisticated ways, in which riders can trick the system if they really

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wanted. There always will be. What we are doing now in the sport with

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the biological passport with profiles for each athletes, which

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instead of looking for the cause and the drug in your urine, looks

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for the effect it has in your body. For you, they would monitor your

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blood levels and hormones over two years and would be able to see the

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blips if something was happening. That is where the sport is going.

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It is possible to achieve that but it demands a massive amount of

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money, skill and the bottom line is that it is a criminal activity. You

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are employing a team of people to cheat the system. Do you actually

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love the sport any more? You have talked to me about the way you

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first as a young man, thrown to the walls. The EU actually love for it?

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I love it more than anything -- do you. I will miss the racing so much

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and the but. -- and the excitement. The feeling of sidling down the

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mountain and going further -- cycling. It is a wonderful sport. I

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have experience many things that people cannot buy. I get to take my

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cells to places that very few people get to go -- myself. Would

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it be too much pop psychology to suggest when you were on the 2020

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Alps in 2010 and he refused to quit, is that you are seeking redemption?

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I used to think that redemption was unachievable, a pipe dream. I think

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I have been very lucky and I feel that I hammered the achieving

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redemption. That has -- I have achieved. The dead end in the Alps

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was an epiphany for me. I did realise that I needed to do that

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for myself. I began by asking whether you cared about winning.

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Maybe you care more about restoring respect than you do about winning.

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Yes. I would like respect again. you are not respected, is there

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anything he can do any more in this sport? I have a responsibility. I

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live with that responsibility to make a difference. I take pride in

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that. I think it is a duty. I will always do that. If you ever saw a

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young man go down the path that you took those years ago what would you

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say to him? If he was considering getting the edge by taking

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