Zoltán Kovács, Government Communication Minister, Hungary HARDtalk

for best film. Time for HARDtalk.

Hungary's centre-right government has galvanised critics at home and

abroad with its new controversial constitution. There have been mass

protest. Opposition politicians have chained themselves outside

public buildings, and the Prime Minister Viktor Orban has been

dubbed CEO. There have been rebukes of the Hungarian government over

its constitutional changes. They have been warned they will erode

democracy and entrench one-party rule. My guest today is Zoltan

Kovacs, the communications minister. His government says the reforms are

necessary to modernise the Hungarian state, but is it about to

Welcome to HARDtalk. Do you accept that Hungary has a very bad image

problem in the world? We have a lot to do to improve that image. It is

very complicated. We are in a situation... Do you still write

your wife? That is a question, there are a number of dancers.

do you think you worry in this position that you have this bad

image? The new Hungarian government that came into part one year ago is

a lot compared to the previous years in the country. Finally we

have facilitated major structure changes. But that does not enter

the question. You know what the situation is back home in Hungary.

The party led by Viktor Orban has seen its population and plump --

its popularity plummet. The latest poll says that 84% of people in

Hungary think the people is on the wrong track, that Viktor Orban pop

--'s population -- population is at an all-time low. The introduction

spoke about mass protest in the country. The opposition chaining

themselves took the gates of public buildings. This happened one time.

It is easy to... But what about the balls that I told you about? You

are losing support. But the Christian Democratic Party is

leading the polls. I know that she won the election, but I am saying...

Why do you think your popularity is plummeting within Hungary? We had a

very intensive year and a half. We made very tough decisions. These

structure changes required them. We have been under fire. It is not the

first time we have come under huge fire from all directions. But lots

of countries in the European Union are experiencing huge economic

crisis has. But it has not given are hearing about Hungary, with

Viktor Orban being dubbed 'Viktator', and people saying he is

trampling on rights, and he wants to entrenched himself in the system

so he stays in power forever. People are saying the Hungarian

government should make use of its two-thirds majority responsibly.

That is what we are doing. We know what a huge opportunity it is. The

responsibility is very peak for the government. You do not go Rover

certain lines. But you are. When he took power in April, he said that

he had to this unprecedented two- thirds majority, I am going to be

humble and responsible. But he is not doing that, is he? But do you

beat your wife, that is the question that comes up. The moment

you start to defend yourself, it is not a good position. This is not a

one party game. You always have to keep in mind the context and what

measures or tools the opposition were used. But it is not just the

structural changes. People may accept the fact that you need to

change a constitution. But it is the manner in which you have done

it. The new constitution came into effect in January, and many say

there was not enough consultation. The Council of Europe - which was

not part of the European Union - said, the constitution union making

process in Hungary has been affected by a lack of transparency,

insufficient opportunities for an adequate public debate, and a very

tight time-frame. Nine months it is not a tight time-frame. Parliament

had a one month special session to talk about it. The constitutional

process in Hungary is -- was more than 20 years ago. After the fall

of communism, every government started to have preparation for a

new one. Opposition members boycotted the vote for the

constitution. Is it for you to say, yes, we have given it enough time?

You have got a very credible critics saying he did not give

enough time to consult. That is one of the problems. They boycotted it,

they did not participate. They were invited. That is a decision they

took. So route they were invited to the process but they took no part

in it, and now calling the constitution unconstitutional is

not FS stand.. Every. I put to you, I'm sure you will have an answer.

But the current President is seen perhaps to not be seen as rigorous

as his predecessor, who was much more robust in sending bills back

to Parliament for consideration. He is allowed to do that. But so far,

he has not vetoed a single bill. This is a feeling that it is

another example of how do you do not have significant checks and

balances. I am in no position to criticise or comment on that. The

constitutional court has the right as it turns out... It started to

get Rawlings on a number of issues. There is no problem. -- Rawlings.

The queue can comment on it. The former President was head of the

constitutional Kemp. He was a very important man in helping Hungary

move towards democracy in the '90s. He knows the life of the land well.

But the current President is a party man through and through.

Critics are saying this is yet another example that you do not

have the robust checks we would like to see. What you mean a party

man? He is not any more. But his predecessor was. But --. It is

normal to have people who will politicians nominated for public

offers. The new role is going to be with the public coffers. You have

to judge his or her performance. you expect him to veto any of your

bills? I am not a for Teller, nobody knows what is going to

happen. -- fortune-teller. Back to checks and balances, this is a

parliamentary system. The approach of checks and balances is not a

practical point of view. Sovereignty comes with

parliamentary decision. People do not want tyranny of the majority.

You're unprecedented two-thirds majority, people want you to use it

responsibly. A major preoccupation for your government is the economic

crisis. You want $20 billion as a bail-out fund. You know very well

that the EU is saying, one big changes have made his you have

rules as to how the central bank in Hungary is governed. They say that

they feel there is political control as a result of your changes,

and that is not allowed. We are aware of that. That is why one of

the suggestions made, 15 of them have already been implemented. We

have a legal issue -- legal argument over one of them, but...

We will simple fiat. They write two outstanding issues, one of them is

raising the monetary council, nominated by Parliament. This sets

interest rates. But this is going to give you the chance to put Suren

people on it, and people feel it will compromise the independence of

the central bank. It was not a problem before. But people now see

it as a problem. May I come back to the previous issue of the two-

thirds majority? Keep in mind that actually, it comes not only from

the 53% of the popular vote, as is being put out as an argument by the

opposition, but it comes through with individual seats. It would be

a 90% majority. It is a huge opportunity and responsibility. In

a parliamentary system, two-thirds majority is not a danger in any way.

No, but it is the way you use it. But on the independence of

Hungary's central bank, this question of how you pack the

monetary committee that sets these important rates... That is

something that the European Union wants to talk about. During talks

with them. Double standards will not apply. What do you mean?

same kind of nomination process. They exist in Europe. It existed in

2004. We have independent governors of central banks. The government of

the central bank is going to possibly be under political

authority. It may be under your new rules emerge if the central bank,

which would compromise could political independence.

sovereignty, the independence of the National Bank is circumstance.

No-one is to touch it, we're open to all kinds of criticism should it

come that we are not in line with any kind of European Union rules.

The current governor of the central bank says that it should not take

over the institutions. But that is an opinion. Yes but it is the

opinion of the Governor of the central bank. We would like to have

the commission a legal argument. DC's Suren governor saying this.

You have got internal and external critics making the same point. --

This is your internal governor saying this. I am asking you what

you say to that? We would like to bring it down to where it belongs.

Specifically the legal and substantial issues. We will sort it

out. The government of the Hungarian parliament is ready to

put it in line. You said it is a double standard. What do you mean?

They are expecting Hungary to do things that other countries will

We have had experience with that in the past 1.5 years. I did not bring

out the media laws. That is under review. The rulings, the Hungarian

constitution France that it will be remanded. Why do you think Hungary

is being discriminated against? Having a new constitution.

intensity and number of the changes you have made it may be ill-

considered. We are in the spotlight. The political changes, the

institutional changes have come together in a very negative period

in Europe's economic life. I will not say it is unavoidable but there

are certain issues in the focus at the moment. In the flat personal

income tax rates means any Hungarian government is able to tax

a street cleaner at the same rate as a multi-millionaire. If feeling

is that is not something that should be enshrined as a basic

cardinal law in the institution as it ties the hands of future

governments. It can be changed by a majority. As the EU says, this kind

of fiscal responsibility it should fall to the elected government of

the day. They may want to change the transaction -- transaction

rates to make it more progressive. In a constitution we have to

address everything. The new government is trying to strengthen

up the middle class which is very thin compared to the western parts

of Europe. The backbone of society is very thin and weak. That is one

of the best means to strengthen it. Another political role is to

preserve the value. He says the European Union is preoccupied with

the way is your constitution violates European law. There will

be a price to pay if you do not do this. You have huge economic

problems. You are not in the euro. The market is dead. What is the

point? You have to take action. is not unusual in the Europe to

have a collision of interest. The way to solve this, the European way,

if we are not in line with the European regulations we will change.

The recorder rating agencies has downgraded Hungary's public debt to

junk status. You need to regain confidence in the market. All the

market has to regain confidence in you. It is not just political

negotiations, you know how markets respond. They see Hungary as

unpredictable winds off the terrain that tendencies. -- with

authoritarian tendencies. You use the term nationalistic and I would

use the term patriotic. I think that would be closer to. This is an

issue that requires context. They will come back to the markets.

need to get their confidence. are aware. This is how we have

started to thin away the huge pile of problems left behind by the

previous government. We were bailed out in 2009 because of the Liberal

government. It was their constitutional and political

failure. This huge mandate gets rid of the huge pile of problems, but

rebuild the country. Rebuild the country in your image? Tell me one

political party who is not trying to put their own image. Milwaukee -

- own image docks. Within one year are around 300 judges are going to

have to retire. That the usual party the opportunity to nominate

hundreds in one go. You have also nominated the wife of a political

member who is close to the Prime Minister. Hillary Clinton has

quoted been saying that it compromises. Docks. --

comprimises... This is a refurbishment of the country. You

need to have a new context to judge the constitution. You cannot

compare it to the previous one because it is following a major

update and a different system. are being judged by the US, the EU,

the IMF. The Finnish Foreign Minister says if a country with a

constitution it like this would apply for EU membership it would

not be accepted. We should defend the opposition and proved that the

system will work like the previous one. There are questions with no

good answers because of the defensive position. There is no

rights or any perspective about our devotion to the European values.

people do not accept that, what are you going to do? You people are

suffering. It has become a personalise around the Prime

Minister. If people were to say we want to see clear singles --

signals that Hungary is democratic which you say I would resign so

people will know that people -- hungry is open for business. --

Hungary. The Prime Minister has been a target for the past 15 years.

He was the sole origin of everything that according to the

previous government. He is a devoted Democrats and family man. I