Vladimir Yakunin - President, Russian Railways HARDtalk


Vladimir Yakunin - President, Russian Railways

Similar Content

Browse content similar to Vladimir Yakunin - President, Russian Railways. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

HARDtalk. Barring a miracle, Vladimir Putin

0:00:040:00:14

will soon be back where he thinks he belongs, inside the Kremlin, as

0:00:140:00:17

Russia's President. Protests about the failings of Russian democracy

0:00:170:00:21

are getting louder as Moscow's foreign policy runs the risk of

0:00:210:00:28

isolation. Russia's economy is highly dependent on high energy

0:00:280:00:34

prices. My guess today is Vladimir Yakunin, the owner of Russian

0:00:340:00:44
0:00:440:00:55

Railways. It is Putinism taking Russia down the wrong track?

0:00:550:01:02

Vladimir Yakunin, a welcome too HARDtalk. Good morning. -- Welcome

0:01:020:01:09

to HARDtalk. Would you agree that Russian people are hoping for a

0:01:090:01:16

change, political change and social change? They're hoping for a new

0:01:160:01:20

life, new dimensions. I hope we will start again. Start again, an

0:01:200:01:24

interesting thought. In that context, it seems strange that

0:01:240:01:27

Vladimir Putin would be trying to convince the Russian people it is

0:01:270:01:33

good to go back - back to a Putin presidency. We had eight years or

0:01:330:01:37

more of him in presidency already, why would a Russia, if it is

0:01:370:01:41

desperate for change, invite him back? Listen, this is not the

0:01:410:01:46

problem of the leader, that is the problem of the policy. If you're

0:01:460:01:51

talking about policy, nowadays with the turmoil in the economic and

0:01:510:01:54

political situation, it is essential to understand what the

0:01:540:02:00

model of today is. You are here in the West. You are thinking about

0:02:000:02:07

that. Sure, but I come back to this idea - if change is so important,

0:02:070:02:11

is Putin the answer? Just quoting from the words of the deputy prime

0:02:110:02:15

minister the other day, he said "the roots of many of Russia's

0:02:150:02:20

economic problems are in the status quo of the political system". That

0:02:200:02:27

is Putinism that is the problem. This is not Putinism. That is not a

0:02:270:02:30

problem of nowadays's political system. There has been responsible

0:02:300:02:34

for it for the last 12 years? Correct, that is not just one

0:02:340:02:39

person, that is the society, that his society's expectations, and

0:02:390:02:44

that is the way of the policies, internal and external. You are

0:02:440:02:49

absolutely correct that that should change. That is exactly what Putin

0:02:490:02:53

published in his three new articles. I don't mean to be rude, but is it

0:02:530:02:57

not the case that there are people around Putin, and you may be one of

0:02:570:03:01

them, who have known him for an awful long time and perhaps work in

0:03:010:03:05

a security agencies with him, I know you were in the KGB, at least

0:03:050:03:09

the Russian press tells me you were, where are you all weren't you?

0:03:090:03:13

Listen, I never discuss my civil services. That is my principles.

0:03:130:03:17

Not because there is something to hide, but this is my principles. I

0:03:170:03:23

never discuss my youth and I never discuss my Civil Service as a

0:03:230:03:29

grown-up. OK, I will leave it at that. The fact is, whether or not

0:03:290:03:32

you were in the KGB, there are a whole number of people close to

0:03:320:03:36

Putin who used to beat in the security apparatus, now they are at

0:03:360:03:41

the top of big business, the top of the government, the bureaucracy, it

0:03:410:03:47

looks, too many Russians, let alone outsiders, but this is a Kabyle of

0:03:470:03:51

deeply conservative authoritarian people. Listen, I cannot agree with

0:03:510:03:59

that. Whether they were in the KGB doesn't matter. It was well

0:03:590:04:04

accepted in the world at that time that the school, the education of

0:04:040:04:09

those people, was of the highest level. It is not only, you know,

0:04:090:04:14

political brainwashing, it was also preparing the people for that kind

0:04:140:04:20

of responsibility. And it takes it to a high and sophisticated level

0:04:200:04:24

in the exercise of authoritarian repressive power. Many of them had

0:04:240:04:29

nothing to do with the repressive apparatus, as you call it. The

0:04:290:04:35

entire system, as we say, is an authoritarian, repressive system.

0:04:350:04:42

Those were the kind of management beginning of that story. Now it has

0:04:420:04:46

changed greatly. Talking of change, what really has changed is the

0:04:460:04:50

Russian people's willingness to accept this. If you look at the

0:04:500:04:55

polls, and in a country like Russia, they are not reliable, completely...

0:04:550:05:00

Tell me a country where they are completely reliable? Fear point.

0:05:000:05:03

What they are telling us make is that the Russian people are no

0:05:030:05:07

longer prepared to accept this bargain with Putin and the people

0:05:070:05:12

around him, that they will give them stability and economic growth

0:05:120:05:17

and you give us loyalty, support and don't ask questions. That is

0:05:170:05:22

breaking down. Looking at the most recent polls, Putin is standing at

0:05:220:05:27

40-45%, where he used to be at 70- 80%. Again, we are talking about

0:05:270:05:30

polls, not the exact figures, which we accepted that is not true

0:05:300:05:37

anywhere. That is the tendency, you are correct. I do except the

0:05:370:05:46

bargain between society and power. The civil organism of the society

0:05:460:05:54

is... That is what the people are showing - the mentality of the

0:05:540:05:58

people, they want democracy. That is the feeling of the people - they

0:05:580:06:02

can consider democracy differently. The people, they would like to say

0:06:020:06:07

their word about the policy. You know, you cannot judge by a crowd

0:06:070:06:12

of 30,000. Or 20,000. I will tell you what you can judge by, perhaps.

0:06:120:06:16

Maybe not the size of the crowd, but what happens to the crowd and

0:06:170:06:19

the leaders of the opposition. What we have seen in the last few months

0:06:200:06:23

is that leaders of the crowd of protesters get arrested. Their

0:06:230:06:28

telephones are barred. That internet access is hacked. We have

0:06:280:06:32

seen it with a whole host of people were trying to speak out. For you,

0:06:320:06:36

as a close Putin ally, someone who knows him well, do you watch what

0:06:360:06:43

is happening and think "this is wrong"? My future president is

0:06:430:06:48

taking this country in the wrong direction. Firstly, when we are

0:06:480:06:54

talking about opposition leaders, this is not correct. When we are

0:06:540:06:59

talking about the actual leaders of so-called opposition, that was not

0:06:590:07:04

them within the crowd, that was other people. People living in the

0:07:040:07:12

internet. Young people. This is one point. Second point, listen,

0:07:130:07:17

everywhere the state is trying to protect itself. Everywhere, but you

0:07:170:07:22

are absolutely correct - you know... Hang on, I can't accept that. You

0:07:220:07:26

are suggesting what the Russian state does in terms of locking up

0:07:260:07:29

protesters is what happens in a democracy such as the UK or the

0:07:290:07:33

United States, of course, it is not what happens at all. Yes, but look

0:07:330:07:38

what happens to the people creating the movement on Wall Street, just

0:07:380:07:42

several weeks ago. The police was

0:07:420:07:48

considered democratic. You really think there is a direct parallel

0:07:490:07:52

between the weight in which the Occupied movement is treated and

0:07:520:07:55

the way in which a whole host of opposition leaders have been locked

0:07:550:08:02

up, harassed, but by the state apparatus? I don't know about the

0:08:020:08:08

bugging, I don't know about harassment, but I know that when a

0:08:080:08:15

crowd at met for the first time on were strictly warned to be polite,

0:08:150:08:21

to be very cautious and not to ruin the process. I suppose this is a

0:08:210:08:26

good sign. You run one of the biggest state-owned corporations,

0:08:260:08:30

businesses, in the entire scope of Russia. You have a million people,

0:08:310:08:35

pretty much, in your workforce. You have 20,000 stations. A vast

0:08:350:08:40

apparatus. Would you accept that when people take to the streets

0:08:400:08:43

these days they are protesting about the lack of political freedom

0:08:430:08:47

and also about rampant corruption and the profound failings in the

0:08:470:08:52

Russian economic system? I suppose they are protesting more against

0:08:520:08:58

the way of life. The feeling of injustice, which now possesses not

0:08:580:09:04

only the Russian community but the world, I suppose. People are

0:09:040:09:08

already more and more educated through the internet, through their

0:09:080:09:12

access to education. They would like to see their country

0:09:120:09:17

developing in order to service their needs. That is true. Here are

0:09:170:09:24

the words of a presidential aide, he said just the other day -

0:09:240:09:32

"Russia's main problems are at excessive interference of the

0:09:320:09:36

government". You run a state owned railway. This is not just a

0:09:360:09:39

question of interference, the state still dominates the economy,

0:09:390:09:44

doesn't it? Listen, this is true. You know, if you look at the

0:09:440:09:50

economic data of the United States, the amount of the state money in

0:09:500:09:57

the economy exceeds 50%. This is not the question - whether of the

0:09:570:10:02

state is using public monies to support some industries, not only

0:10:020:10:08

the military complex. The question is - how is it done? Don't mix the

0:10:080:10:12

intervention of one particular or several particular persons on the

0:10:120:10:18

political level into, say, my management work. That is not right.

0:10:180:10:23

I am running a state-owned company, we have a board of directors, that

0:10:230:10:29

is in accordance with Russian law. 100% of the shares belonged to the

0:10:290:10:34

state. No-one can dictate to me what to do but the government when

0:10:340:10:43

I suppose this is right. Please, hang on a moment. Explain how your

0:10:430:10:46

business works. Tell me in what ways it really has changed since

0:10:460:10:56

the Soviet period? For example, just in the last year we sold

0:10:560:11:02

shares, a complete package, 75% of the biggest owners of the rolling

0:11:020:11:12
0:11:120:11:15

stock. We got from this selling more than 140 billion roubles.

0:11:150:11:18

dare say there are people who can make a profit out of being

0:11:180:11:21

associated by your business, but in the end it is still owned by the

0:11:210:11:25

state and employs pretty much a million people. It not only runs

0:11:250:11:30

railways, you also run clinics, hospitals, schools, you have urine

0:11:300:11:36

security forces, I think you even had a riding school. -- you have

0:11:360:11:42

your own that security forces. An institution like yours, frankly,

0:11:420:11:45

looks very much like it did 30 years ago. This is a completely

0:11:450:11:51

wrong picture. Firstly, we are working not like the Ministry. I am

0:11:520:11:58

in the business here, competing with my challengers like private

0:11:580:12:05

operators of the rolling stock. There are some businesses which are

0:12:050:12:09

not the essential businesses of the company. When you're talking about

0:12:090:12:13

hospitals, kindergartens, that is not because we would like to run

0:12:130:12:18

them, but, unfortunately... No, it is not, it is because it is a

0:12:180:12:23

folder of, a left over from the Soviet period. I'm asking whether

0:12:230:12:27

Russia has really changed? short answer is, to my mind,

0:12:270:12:33

greatly. During the period of the last 12 years, yes, greatly. We

0:12:330:12:37

still have a lot of things to do, because you know there are two met

0:12:370:12:43

sides fighting. One side is saying "everything should be privatised,

0:12:430:12:48

the state should withdraw from any influence in Social Affairs". The

0:12:480:12:52

other side is saying "no, there is only the state that should run

0:12:520:12:57

everything properly in order to service the needs of the people".

0:12:570:13:00

This is wrong completely, two policies. The truth is in the

0:13:000:13:06

middle. During 2008, when the banks crackdown in the most liberal

0:13:070:13:11

countries like the United States of America or Great Britain, who was

0:13:110:13:15

behind them? The state. How can someone say that the state should

0:13:150:13:19

completely withdraw from the economic Planning specifically in

0:13:190:13:23

the developing economies? You talk about this middle ground that works

0:13:230:13:27

- in Russia it doesn't work. Let's compare you with the other nations

0:13:270:13:31

we talk about, the emerging superpowers of the world economy -

0:13:310:13:38

China, the GDP has increased 5.3 ti ti1992. India, 3.5 times.

0:13:380:13:45

Russia, frankly, Russia reached its 1990 GDP level only in 2007, while

0:13:450:13:50

China and India have been rushing ahead with enormous growth. Russia,

0:13:500:13:58

in many ways, apart from oil and gas have stagnated. That is the

0:13:580:14:03

truth. That is the truth, and I suppose we have been rooted to the

0:14:030:14:08

essence of this economy. One can see that they privatised at the

0:14:080:14:13

middle level and small businesses. They never privatised the core of

0:14:130:14:20

their economies. You know, in Russia, the status off the troika,

0:14:200:14:26

they decided to privatise everything. You are saying that not

0:14:260:14:29

enough state is the problem in Russia? At that time, it wasn't the

0:14:290:14:37

state, it was the wrong model of getting market economy. That was

0:14:370:14:43

the problem. Privatisation was not - to privatise in order to boost

0:14:440:14:53
0:14:540:14:56

In China, foreign business goes into that kind she believing Bacon

0:14:560:15:00

achieved what they want to without having their profits creamed off or

0:15:000:15:07

a rules change. In Russia, corruption is their grandparents

0:15:070:15:14

yacht foreign direct investment figures have been disastrous. -- is

0:15:140:15:24
0:15:240:15:28

so rampant Europe. A matter big- company can only take 10% out of

0:15:280:15:33

the pocket. All money should be invested there. In Russia it is

0:15:330:15:42

free. You can do whatever you do with the money you owe owner. --

0:15:420:15:52
0:15:520:15:55

your own. You are correct. Corruption is one of the Maze

0:15:550:16:02

driven thought things about the economy. -- must be dreadful.

0:16:020:16:07

Vladimir Putin has are not fixed it. Why does he deserve another term in

0:16:070:16:17
0:16:170:16:18

office? Why has the not fix it? has bloomed over your country over

0:16:180:16:28
0:16:280:16:29

the last 12 years. Russia is rated as 140 said out of 180 nations in

0:16:290:16:33

terms of corruption. It is by far the most corrupt industrialised

0:16:330:16:39

nation in the world. I do not trust all these ratings. You just told me

0:16:400:16:48

it yourself there is a huge problem. Yes. But a place Russia so it Blair

0:16:480:16:56

on the bottom is not a correct. That is not true. -- so close. Bank

0:16:560:17:00

managers are running out of the windows because of the disaster of

0:17:000:17:08

2008. That was also corruption. We need to have civil institutions to

0:17:080:17:13

control the power. That is true. Just to blame Russia as the only

0:17:130:17:21

corrupt country is the fate of. is not just outsiders looking in.

0:17:210:17:28

It is rations themselves. There is a fascinating new website which

0:17:280:17:33

gives examples of corrupt practices in public tendering. Over the last

0:17:330:17:37

year, they have come up with hundreds of millions of dollars

0:17:370:17:41

worth of examples where the Russian state and public tenders have been

0:17:410:17:47

issued in a fundamentally corrupt away. This is rations Dorking.

0:17:470:17:54

There are all sorts of different rations. -- rations are talking.

0:17:540:18:04
0:18:040:18:08

The only proof of misty is the court decisions. Nobody bears any

0:18:080:18:13

responsibility in Russia. They can publish whatever they wonder with

0:18:130:18:21

no responsibility. Do you think that is free information? In Russia,

0:18:210:18:26

we know, there have been many examples of the journalists were

0:18:260:18:30

hide-and-seek ensued the malpractice of business people and

0:18:300:18:35

politicians and they have ended up dead.

0:18:350:18:40

Unfortunately, some facts are there. You do not know through is

0:18:400:18:47

responsible. Through it you think it might be responsible for the

0:18:470:18:50

killings of independent journalists? Sometimes it is

0:18:500:18:59

powerful criminal groups. There are links with caucuses. Some of them.

0:18:590:19:09
0:19:090:19:11

Link to powerful players in businesses and politics? I am

0:19:110:19:16

talking about how well people. Those who got their wealth not in a

0:19:160:19:23

proper or acceptable way. Let's look at a wider horizon. You are in

0:19:230:19:27

London to lecture on what you hope is the modernisation of Russia to a

0:19:270:19:33

British audience. Russia is looking increasingly isolated. Eight looks

0:19:330:19:43
0:19:430:19:47

like they are standing against the tide of history. Do you worry how

0:19:470:19:54

back please sit an international audience? We are tackling this

0:19:540:20:03

matter professionally. That is my strong belief that the future lies

0:20:030:20:10

in greater co-operation between Russia and Europe. Exchanging, not

0:20:100:20:20
0:20:200:20:21

only goods, but people exchanging ideas and speaking out. I felt

0:20:210:20:28

insulted when it was broadcasted the killings of an elderly person

0:20:280:20:38
0:20:380:20:40

who used to be Saddam has sent. I am not fond of his person. It is

0:20:400:20:46

disgusting have the matter was tackled. You are offended by it but

0:20:460:20:50

the Americans did in Iraq. There and many Russians who share your

0:20:500:20:56

opinion. But right now, do you believe it is riots or ethical for

0:20:560:21:00

the Russians insist they will continue to sell arms to the Syrian

0:21:000:21:10
0:21:100:21:12

government led by a share -- President Assad? The have problems

0:21:120:21:16

when international sanctions are being imposed on Iranians?

0:21:160:21:26

sanctions are limited. I do not think anybody can blame Russia

0:21:260:21:35

Railways for this. What we do, we are developing construction. It the

0:21:350:21:43

end it decided to close Iran, it could be a great mistake because no

0:21:430:21:49

sanctions can deal with the problems other nuclear disarmament

0:21:490:21:59
0:21:590:21:59

spot security. What about answer to Syria? DC in a sense and is the

0:21:590:22:07

right thing for Russia to do to sell weapons? -- do you think it

0:22:070:22:13

makes sense. We need to see what is going on on the other side. Where

0:22:130:22:20

do all the rebels get their weapons? A final thought. You

0:22:200:22:27

identified itself a very closely as a Russian nationalist. A national

0:22:270:22:37

tradition. I wonder where pick him up over the years have said, the

0:22:370:22:46

collapse of the Soviet Union was a major disaster. do you share those

0:22:460:22:55

feelings? I do share. When an empire was demolished in a very

0:22:550:23:05
0:23:050:23:07

short route of time, been this a very tiny glow, it was not like a

0:23:070:23:17
0:23:170:23:18

blow of the wind. Eight influences civilisation's. It influences

0:23:180:23:28
0:23:280:23:34

society. It is interesting you say that. With the election approaching,

0:23:340:23:39

with the Russian people rather have a genuine democracy and economic

0:23:390:23:45

modernisation rather then all of this talk of the Soviet Union and

0:23:450:23:52

Russia's great past and tradition? One should look forward. But I do

0:23:520:24:00

not believe in genuine democracy. There are some aspects of democracy

0:24:000:24:08

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS