Abdel Latif El-Menawy - Former Head of Egyptian state news HARDtalk

television programmes. That is it from me. The days time

now for HARDtalk. An information revolution is

sweeping through the Middle East. No longer can state media

organisations beat their audiences Propaganda with any confidence that

it will be swallowed. My guest is a journalist who knows what it means

to serve an authoritarian regime. He was the chief of news in Egypt's

broadcaster. Is the Arab world are Welcome to HARDtalk. You have had

plenty of time now to reflect on those momentous days of revolution

back in early 2011. Two you have any sense of shame about your role

in what happened? -- do you have? Absolutely not. I have done my

professional job with the maximum professionalism I can. I did a roll

of saving the country. In the circumstances I was in. I managed

to stop, prevent any sort of conflict or clashes between the

army and the presidential palace when I decided to take the decision

to announce the Statement number one for the army without going back

to any... You are racing ahead to some of the detail of what happened

in those 18 days. Shame is what I started this. I tell you why - I

wonder if you have pondered the words of a number of your own staff,

people employed by Egypt radio and television, who have condemned the

operation that you were leading. For example, one person to -- who

spent years working there said state television waged an

information war against democracy activists. I'm afraid some of these,

it was just a private matter of the government. I don't want to go

through the names but nobody resigned at the time. She resigned

shortly afterwards. Many refuse to to show up and went to join the

demonstration. No-one resigned at the time. I will tell you the

situation... It does not mean she is not wrong. She says "There were

people running Egypt's state television at the time had tried to

deal legitimise the protesters and smear of the revolution". We did

our job at the time as professionals under pressure. I had

three choices to make. Either to do as any state television was doing,

to be a public relations for for the regime. -- PR tool. Choice

number two - to leave the place. Choice number three is to take the

responsibility, as you understand it, do your job as you understand

it and as you can under the pressure we had at the times.

keep talking about the pressure. You did, did you not, received

calls saying you must keep the voices of protesters off air. The

first time, the first period starting from the 25th them to 2nd

February, at the time I was in the middle of the worst crisis. Parts

of the body are fighting against each other, each one trying to

control the media. You make it sound like a civil war and it was

not like that at all. People wanted to go on the streets to make plain

their desire to see a new Egypt, to see the Mubarak regime indent.

not talking about the demonstrators, I'm talking about the state, the

government of the presidential palace. I am not asking you to go

into the politics of the palace. I am asking why the state television

news did not show the scenes in Tahrir Square, day after day,

starting on 25th January. Why did she keep them off air and white

television repeatedly talked about the violence being undertaken,

according to your reports. afraid also it is not accurate

information. We didn't call it the demonstrators from us at all. --

didn't call them thugs. I had instructions not to open the

telephone line with people in Tahrir Square. First I stopped any

one, people people don't like them and are very loyal to the regime. I

asked people already who have a sort of respect. The other thing,

like a cat can right at the time. - - cat and rat at the time. Our

cameras were destroyed in the first few days at the square. We were

under siege from the army and demonstrators at the time. We could

not go out with our camera without permission from the army. Right but

it is more of a question of discussion the difficulties of the

situation when it comes to logistics. You were an employee of

the government, answerable to the information minister who sat in the

same building as you. You were a device of the Mubarak regime, Wu Di

not? Is that a judgement or make a question? It is a question. I was a

professional who except at a certain time to work with them. --

who accepted. Were you a member of the ruling National Democratic

Party? I was a member. You cannot considerate as a sort of, it is not

like the Ba'ath Party. If you wanted to be independent, fair-

minded, accountable as a journalist running Egyptian television, why

did you feel it was right to be a member of the ruling party? It was

not take party, it is a part of the state it's self.... half of the

people in Tahrir Square were members of the party. One MP now in

the parliament was a member. A lot of people were a member. It is a

part of the regime and if you can go through a few thousand years ago,

Egypt was a central society and the power was central. A lot of people

are dealing with the regime. They hate it and Lovett at the same time.

-- and love it. As the member, Diddy take any direction from the

party, Diddy folly any of their remarks was that -- did you follow?

You know... My decisions which were, at the time, five years on

television... You know as well as I do that there are many people who

want a real investigation of exactly what happened inside state

media during those days of revolution. There have been efforts

by people who want you to testify in a court. Allegations that staff

members are answerable to who undertook fake telephone calls

pretending to be members of the public. It has never been tested in

a quarter -- court of the law. you are saying has been tested and

they confirm that what the allegation, it was a fake phone

call and they said one of the names. They made a test, a voice test and

confirmed that this is not true. This guy already made allegations,

who said that against him... Just to clear it up, you have not

testified? You can test my book... It is rather different to going

into a court. What you like talking about his part of something we are

really proud of because at the time, when we had this, nobody, the state

itself, no power and we have just the Armin and a few offices in the

TV to take calls from people who are already suffering from attack

at the time... A final thought about these days of revolution. In

the end Mubarak was toppled, the army shot him aside. As you said

earlier, you took the decision to air the army's emergency statements

from the beginning without consulting the presidential palace.

That is a sign of your realisation I realised that Mubarak was

finished. This was the time to finish the job of. I knew from the

beginning that Mubarak should make a hard decision. He did not take it.

This is why the army was convinced. Any kind of pressure should be

taken. I took this action from the army, the right decision. It is not

because he was going away. I want to straighten out one final thing

before we move on. After she was corner, who suffered the

humiliation of having some of your own or staff trying to overtake you.

You were only saved because there were soldiers in the building. What

sort of message does that send to you? This happens on a 13th

February. I resigned after six weeks. There was a lot of

demonstrations. I got a phone call from one of my colleagues. They

were asking for races on sour please. We are talking about 20% of

people. When you are talking about people chanting a political slogan,

I had my people believing in what I've told them. We are working for

her a nation, not a person Moree regime. Time to broaden the

conversation beyond the days of the revolution. You say you were

working for the nation. You regard yourself as an Independent

journalist trying to uphold a journalistic standards in a

difficult situation. Let us consider the sort of compromises

you had to make rata time working for a state television and radio.

You acknowledge that the 2005 election was a sham. And if you

continue to work for the government. I wonder why you did that.

presidential election of 2005. This was the parliamentary election. We

had the best coverage for the election. We were the most balanced

at the time. My point is that you, in the book, say that the democracy

that the regime allowed to was a sham. And yet in that very same

year you continue to working in a state television. Are you saying

that it was fair? It was fair. You can share it with the Muslim

Brotherhood. There were three stages. The first stage was there.

The second and third was a disaster. There were big mistakes. You seem

to be rewriting history. You write that your relationship with the

regime. You talk about the growing arrogance of the state apparatus.

This is the regime you decided to work for. You're given high-profile

interviews. The questions were gone over with you before the interview.

You say that he respected Hosni Mubarak very much and that he

respected you. This was the regime that ruled Egypt for 30 years. Most

of the people were dealing with the Mubarak regime. They were looking

for a man at to have this blessing. -- minutes. Let us be as fair as we

can be to the people of Egypt who have looked at what has happened to

their country. They see corruption, exploitation, a widening gap

between the rich and poor, many senior officials convicted of

corruption, they even see your old boss sentenced to seven years in

jail for misappropriation of public funds. Not a single breath of this

was reported by you and your news teams in the five years you were in

charge. We reported more than that. We talked about corruption. I was

trying to have this kind of freedom against oppression. We can go

through everything. Are you telling me that he went after Hosni

Mubarak? We know that hundreds of millions of US dollars... D's was

discovered after the uprising. you do any investigative

journalism? This was something I was trying to do. We had people

signing contracts with us to work for her my team of. We were trying

to train journalists for investigative reporting. We were

trying to improve the quality of the journalism. In 2007 I thought

many times, I discovered that the winds of change was not a true

thing at the time. I thought I should resign. Do you wish you had?

To tell you the truth, maybe yes. But you did not. There are so many

important things a need to talk to you about. I did not, because it is

either doing what every you can do, or leave it for someone else. It

would be a disaster. Egyptian people can notice the improvement.

They can compare between January 2005 and when I left. I want to

bring us up to date and consider where Egypt is today. It is being

controlled by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. We have seen

many dissident journalists arrest an put into military detention. We

have seen thousands of other people go to the military court system. We

have seen it freedom of expression time and again stamped upon by the

Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Where is Egypt's revolution today

when it comes to freedom of expression. Egypt is passing

through a difficult time. The country is being pushed towards

disaster. We are trying to think about the future. Nobody is

challenging what they are doing. That is the problem. There is no

freedom of discussion. There is nobody in jail now. Many of them

have suffered weeks and months inside military prison. I am

against any decision taken against a freedom of expression. I have

told my friends and colleagues. I push for transparency. You have to

know how to deal with them. The Army are not ready for it. Isn't it

a wider question them that? Consider what is happening in Syria.

Too many people in the Arab world still do not get it. The

Information Control they used to exercise is no longer tenable. It

is not possible for them to control information the way they used to.

do not think people are trying to control information and the media.

I came last night from Egypt. why have some stations been shut

down? We have not got time for the long version. I have asked the

question at the very beginning, is the Arab world really ready for a

free media? We have two media's - the private and state media's. We

have a lack of this code of ethics. It should be done by the media

people themselves. We should be supervising and observing the media.

I know you have plans to set up a Pan Arabic media organisation. Do