Ali Dizaei - London Metropolitan Police Superintendent HARDtalk


Ali Dizaei - London Metropolitan Police Superintendent

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being extradited to the US. That's it from me. Now it is time for

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My guest today is perhaps the UK's most controversial police officer.

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A commander in London's Metropolitan Police and a convicted

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criminal. Ali Dizaei was born in Iran. He studied law in London and

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became a high flying spokesman for ethnic minority police officers in

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their London force dogged by accusations of racism. Ali Dizaei

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portrays himself as a victim. The courts decided he was a rogue cop.

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What does his rise and fall say Ali Dizaei, welcome to HARDtalk.

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Good to be here. You were an ambitious and successful career

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policeman and he might use it as a convicted criminal. How hard is

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that for you to accept? It is hard. All my life for the last 27 years,

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I have given my service to the Queen and the country. Three

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skulduggery and other things, I have managed to get myself

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convicted. Miscarriage of justice is nothing new in the United

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Kingdom. They were all convicted very much like me. Ten years'

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imprisonment, they ended up being apologised to by the British Prime

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Minister. Is that how you see yourself? You will eventually get

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an apology from the people at the very top. Last year exactly this

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time it happened. I was convicted, I was sent to prison, I was

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vilified and demonised by the tabloid press, extraordinary. I am

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not the only high-profile civil servant been convicted and then 16-

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month later, the Court of Appeal and the Justice of Appeal said my

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conviction was actually unsafe. Remarkably, I was retried again on

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the words of a convicted fraudster or - or we can say this because he

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has been convicted since the last trial - and I have been convicted

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again. That is the point. As you characterised correctly, you had a

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trial, at you were sentenced to four years, you served 15 months in

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prison. But was then overturned. There was a retrial and then you

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were a retrial by a jury of your Peers. By the Court of Appeal. The

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wonderful thing about this country, we have democratic values and a

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good Criminal Justice System. to the top. These are serious

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charges you have been convicted of. Misconduct of just as, for averting

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the Court of Justice. -- perverting. In the second try, the jury had the

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key prosecution against you had credibility issues, as you said. It

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is proving he fording that we claim some benefits, he lied about his

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personal details. In the end, the jury heard your evidence and his

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evidence and they decided to to be too fussed about is pretty damning.

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On the surface, I yes. We can talk about this and people talking out

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it -- about it being the most heinous crime. I arrested a man

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outside a cafe. There was no injury, and nobody was killed. There was no

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loss of life to property. I arrested a bogus an asylum seeker

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who is now a benefactor and I was sent to prison. You abused your

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authority. Yes, and the jury found that. But clearly, the jury did not

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know because the judge did not commit the jury to know that this

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man is also under investigation for very serious other criminal

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offences in this country against other British citizens. The Crown

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Prosecution Service, through all their legal play, managed to

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convince the judge that that information should be kept away

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from the jury and that what ahead in their appeal. We will not go

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down that track. What is interesting that you are the most

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senior police officer to be sent to prison in a generation. You have

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been evicted by two different injuries of your appears. Would you

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accept your police career is absolutely over? -- two juries of

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copiers. Not necessarily. Last year I was right. I remain absolutely

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convinced that I would challenge this conviction and I will win and

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be able to demonstrate that I have been a subject of miscarriage of

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justice, very much like those names I mentioned earlier on. There are

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some bizarre twists to this story. Are you electronically tagged at

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the moment? Yes. Right now as you sit before me, you are wearing some

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sort of electronic bracelet? Yes, I do. If that is supposed to

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undermine my confidence and my integrity, it does not. I take

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inspiration in the words of Shakespeare, who says they tied me

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to their stakes, I cannot fly high. Battles in Macbeth. -- that was in.

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It is a credibility issue. I do not know why you insist you can retain

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credibility as a senior Metropolitan Police officer. Why

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don't you resign from the police force? That is the easiest thing

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you can do. But when you are innocent, you do not do that. Look

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at my four colleagues, Sir Paul Stephenson. Every time there is

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allegations, allegations of misconduct, the easiest thing you

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can do is through the town in and say I have done nothing wrong, go

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and smoke cigars and get your pension. It is damaging the Match,

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isn't it? You are a damaging the police force. The Independent

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Police Complaints Commission chicken-and-egg Hardwick, he said

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the greatest threat to the police force is criminals in uniform. --

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nick Hardwick. We have challenged their integrity over racism and

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they way they deal with people of colour in many cases. It was his

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opportunity to put the boot in. I will not lose much sleep over that

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nonsense. I have an ongoing appeal and you only have to walk with me

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through the streets of London. It is not a higher echelons of the

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matter of the tabloid press who should be judged whether I should

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remain a police officer. Let us go to some boroughs that have reduced

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it crime by 30% and increased public confidence. They will come

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to me and shake my head and say you should stay in the police force

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because we need policemen like you. So we don't suffer from their races

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and that we suffer now forced to have you introduce the idea of race

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is an entire police force. We will come back to that. -- racism. You

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spent 15 months in prison. Having spent a career locking people up,

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you were locked up yourself. What is that like? It was like living

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hell. Like putting a high-profile police officer imprisoned. Nobody

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was... Hang on. Let us not go over the case again. You were in a

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position of great authority. You were a senior police officer. You

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abused the offers, you had to pay the price and that meant serving

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time in prison. One month solitary confinement? If you had not been in

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there, you might have faced a real violence. Not really. They put me

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in solitary confinement to teach me a lesson and to teach other

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advocates of equality... With all due respect, they probably

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protected you. You have told stories of how you work assaulted

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while mixing with prisoners at one point. You were smeared with

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excrement. It was not a coincidence. My offence, in any objective view,

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was an offence which made a should have gone to an open prison

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straight away. I was not put in a open prison. I was put in solitary

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confinement in a Victorian prison and then I was put in a close

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condition prison without any proper assessment and as a result, I was

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very badly assaulted. It was a living hell. The answer to your

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question. I never lost my hope in clearing my name and I did it. And

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I would do it again. What went wrong, Ali Dizaei? Everyone thinks

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about your career trajectory, you came to the UK as an Iranian, you

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obviously studied here. You were very successful in your early years

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in the police force. You became as superintended in the Metropolitan

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Police. You were tipped for high office. For great things. At what

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point do you think things went wrong? When I refused to be house-

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trained by my employ not want to me to be talking about

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the racism I a witness. They said if I kept quiet, you will be a

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higher officer. But my position... Look at my history. One thing that

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lurks in the background and rarely gets referred to is how I actually

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delivered of performance in the streets of London, in terms of

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detection of crime and public covered its. As soon as I raised my

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head above everyone and said I will not stand dead, that is when I

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became targeted. �12 million. My employer has spent in the last ten

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years trying to prosecute or discipline may. �12 million.

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problem with this is for a long time, your race, your car, the fact

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that you are from a minority, did not impact your career. -- your

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colour. He won on a fast track. Your career began to fall in to

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trouble. There were allegations spreading that your lifestyle and

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will conduct was not that expected of a senior officer. My employer

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put me under intrinsic surveillance for two years. Tapped my telephone

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calls. It decided that perhaps I should not be going to a night club

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of their choice, I should be going down to a local pub. That is the

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gist of the allegations. Why do you think they spent so much money and

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time investigating you? It was because they had real fears about

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your conduct and Europe use of Office was a bat was not clearly

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justified. In every court other than the last one, that was tested

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before the judges and they found that conduct was completely and

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utterly unlawful. Andy Hayman, of you said this. He was recently

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involved in investigations. He said you were at control, a violent

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bully and liar who abused his position of trust. That is not the

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same Andy Hayman that you called a dodgy person, did you? If it was,

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of the hypocrisy is breathtaking. do not know what that has to do

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with it. He spent a lot of time looking at your behaviour and he

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concluded that. That operation was masterminded by Andy Hayman and it

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was found by the Morris inquiry to be a disproportionate, highly

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irrational investigation which was fuelled by raises them. How could

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anyone possibly believe what Andy Hayman has to say? -- racism.

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speak speak out about what you said was

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racist within the Metropolitan Police. Not just the Metropolitan

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Police. I have challenged misuse of race in many public sector

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organisations. -- issues of race. wonder why so many other people,

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including black police officers, do not take seriously the idea that

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you have always been this crusader for the rights of particularly

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black police officers? That is quite interesting because I was

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elected, not appointed, I was elected through a ballot by the

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National Black Police Association executive of 15,000 members. That

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is their President. If you are going to quote to me one officer

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who, because of his Angus a interest, has spoken publicly, that

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is hardly a scientific way to judge how I did. We are talking about the

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founder and the first to achieve. He sued the Metropolitan Police...

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He said you used race as a fig-leaf to cover your room going. That is

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very common, in terms of putting that to people who fight for

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equality. Often the tabloid press... This is not about anybody. This is

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the man who founded the by police. He was one of the disgruntled

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members of the Black Police Association who incidentally sued

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the Metropolitan Police for race discrimination and won considerable

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damages. You are not a member of that association any more? We call

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them and they said you were not a member. As for our as I'm

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concerned... You would like to be in it but you and not in it they

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expelled year. Unless I am dismissed from the police service,

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You have always said you were targeted by the powers at the very

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top of the Met because of your stand against racism inside the Met.

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This is dismissed by the people at the top off the Met today, and also

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by a number of other people who care deeply about race relations

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inside the M aye. I think he'll are cherry-picking a conversation with

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one person. It is not to do with a genuine belief that we should have

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a positive strategy against racism in this country. If what I had done

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was so much of a fig-leaf, I would not have been commended by Jack

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Straw. My employer as far as race was concerned said I was

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exceptional in delivering race Just to get this straight in my

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head. You are saying that the people you work within the Met from

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2002 now are guilty of, spreading the cancer of racism. And at the

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same time you tell me you are desperately eager to go back into

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this police force. Two these people cancer of racism. If this was a

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problem in the BBC, would you just throw the towel in and walk away?

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No, you love your job. I love my job. I am good at what they do. I

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catch criminals, detect crime and increase public confidence. I have

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been commended for delivering fine police work. Why shouldn't I want

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to go back to their job? Because you are a criminal. When you talk

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about catching criminals, it is difficult when you are a convicted

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criminal. I accept that, but I will clear my name. I have already clear

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did once before. All of this hinges on whether I clear my name. I will.

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I have done it once and I will do it again. Racism spreading like a

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cancer - let's look at the facts. The Met has had a difficult time

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with allegations of racism and the murder of Stephen Lawrence, which

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talked about institutional racism within the MPS. The number of black

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police officers in London has risen from 3% to 10%, approximately. The

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current Commissioner said that racism and racists will not be and

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are not tolerated in his police force. Those sentiments have been

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ventilated before. And the figures speak for themselves. No, they do

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not. An analogy - the Metropolitan Police looks like a pint of

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Guinness: Black at the bottom, white at the top. You can have many

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police of colour in the streets of London and die support that. But it

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in my lifetime in this country we will never see a black or Asian

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Commissioner. How do you know that? Commissioner. And look what

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happened to him. He did not have the talent in the end to get

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anywhere close to the top. I have worked with him and I certainly

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think he had all the acumen and the credentials to be a Commissioner

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and certainly a chief constable. He relentlessly applied to be a chief

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constable in the Midlands and Greater Manchester. The police have

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made a lot of the inroads in tackling racism. The problem we

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have is the question of sticky floors. So, what about Mike Fuller,

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the black chief of police in Kent. He got to the very top in his

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County. We have been read uprooting people of colour into the police

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force since 1960s. -- recruiting. And only one chief constable? We

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have cities like Leicester with Super diversity and you are quoting

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one black chief constable in 50 years of recruiting. That does not

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stack up. We have no black chief constables, no assistant

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commissioners in the Met, despite the fact that by 201560 % of people

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in London will be from the ethnic minorities. -- by 2015, 60% of the

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people. I wonder whether part of your mind is thinking: I have

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betrayed the cause that I truly believe in. By ending up as a

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convicted criminal when for so long I was the figurehead of the Black

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Police Association. I have let a whole number of people down. That

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is the same old chestnut which we started this conversation with, in

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terms of the circular argument. actually yet this issue down.

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tall. I am a victim of a miscarriage of justice. They

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laughed at the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six. Thank God we do

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not have capital punishment or you may have hung them. And they turned

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out to be totally innocent people. ICT comfortably telling you that I

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am innocent and the victim are of a miscarriage of justice. You keep

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talking about the rotten system which has convicted due. What about

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Ali Dizaei himself? What have you learned about your failings and

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weaknesses as a result of this? choose my words carefully. You

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alluded to the fact that I was born in Iran and I came here as an

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immigrant. I am heartily grateful as an immigrant it to be given the

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opportunity to get where I am. When I talk about the system I am not

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saying that it is all bad or corrupt. In any democratic society

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you will have miscarriages of justice. Systems occasionally do

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not work because when you are persecuted, when your employer

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spends �12 million trying to put you in jail and finally succeeds,

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you can comfortably say that something is not right. That does

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not mean that the system of justice in Britain is totally flawed.

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about your personal flaws? What have you learnt about herself in

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the last couple of beers? I have never suggested that I can walk on

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water. I am a human being with the same frailties as anybody else. If

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I was to put you under intrusive surveillance and listen to your

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telephone calls for a three-and-a- half years - 3,000 calls - I'm sure

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I could cherry-pick bits of anyone's private life and feed it

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to the daily press. I have had to sustain a media lynching for the

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