Paul Conroy - Photographer HARDtalk

minutes. Now it is time for HARDtalk.

From Syria, to Sri Lanka, to Russia, there are journalists ready to put

themselves in harm's way to shine a light on some of the darkest

corners of conflict, crime and corruption. What makes them do it?

And what difference do they make? I speak to British photo journalist

Paul Conroy who was wounded in the Syrian army's bombardment of the

city of Homs last February which killed his Sunday Times colleague

Marie Colvin. When, if ever, is telling the story worth risking

your life? Paul Conroy, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you. It is very good to see you, but how is your health? I had

some small shrapnel injuries that were taking care. It is slowly

coming together, it is slightly prone to infection but they are

making progress. They are cutting the dead meat out as it starts to

seal up. Another month or two. sound very matter of fact. When we

are thinking about what you have been through it is not just a

question of the physical injuries, it is eight weeks on - how are the

mental scars? At the moment - I got out and I launched myself into

keeping busy, rather than sitting back and reflecting. I have been

assured it will come, that point were a stop and... At the moment I

just keep busy, writing, doing interviews. Really just not

reflecting too much is the advice I have been given by professionals.

suspect for the next 20 minutes I may have to break that rule and ask

you to reflect on what you went through because the very obvious

opener in terms of casting your mind back is this one - that you

and the other journalists, including Marie Colvin, who chose

to going to Homs at a time when it was under siege, you knew what

you're getting yourself into? Absolutely. We were under no

illusions about what was happening in Homs. The videos came out, they

were on YouTube. They lose a lot of strength when they are televised

because it is always with a precursor - this can't be confirmed

or this can't be verified. In the world's I, the moment you put "this

can't be verified", it opens it up to misinterpretation by everybody,

and the regime works on that. I think it is not enough. If it needs

verification then it is a sad state of affairs - it is sad that we need

people to go in it and actually be Western and the official

journalists to make it real... will talk more about that, the

relationship between Western journalists and activist, because

you were very involved with local people. Talking over the events

that fell upon you in February. Getting in was difficult because it

was around at a new wanted to get into a besieged area. It was

besieged by tanks and heavy artillery. I wonder whether you and

Marie Colvin - you were working together - were you really honest

with each other about the scale of the risks you are running -- you

were running? We got in it at around midnight through some very

precarious situations. The first time we got in - you go through a

three kilometre tunnel and there is a walk. You can hear it, you know

the risks are mounting. We spent two Mods in Ms rata together. --

two-month. We had worked together in those conditions. We thought we

were going into another MS Ra to a situation. We both went "well, we

have done it before, let's do it again". Arriving in Syria at

daybreak, we realised it was on another scale. At that point, did

you and she looked at each other and say, will "this may have been a

mistake" was that no, we never thought that. -- mistake? We were

glad to be in. You got access to places very few other journalists

got to. You're at the centre of a story the world cared about a great

deal. There is this balance - a trade-off of great danger. You

served in the military, you have been a photojournalist for 20 years,

ready to go to dangerous places, but I assume, you have never gone

into a place thinking that there is a probability that you may get

wounded or even killed. Surely, you can't think that, can you?

never think that. When I left for this trip everyone was saying they

didn't feel good about it - it was really dangerous. You don't think

you are bullet-proof but obviously you think if anything will happen

it won't be to you. That is the mental state you have to have. You

can't go into these places thinking that you are going to die. You take

what precautions you can, you take all of the advice and soak up

information about the situation but you can't go into these places -

you can't go in thinking that, it would kill you. When your mind goes

on to that you are more at risk because you are less aware of your

environment. You saw the most terrible things in Syria, because

this was the height of the period of bombardment when the Syrian army

outside the neighbourhood was sending in heavy fire. It went on

for days. Do you now think you should have left earlier? We went

in twice. The first time we reported, we reported from a field

hospital. In the end the decision was taken out of our hands. The

activists and the Free Syrian Army told us that they had information

there would be a land invasion. They got on smack out through the

tunnel, it was very hasty -- they got us out. There was a real fear

that the troops were coming in that night, there would be a sort. We

got out in a hurry. We spent about three days outside in a village

close by trying to get angles we could cover the story from. We

couldn't communicate with the next city - that's how bad the situation

was. We decided to go back into Baba Amr. Obviously with the people

lie dead, the people wounded - it would be good to have that

hindsight. We knew what we were getting ourselves into, hopefully

it was making a difference. That is why that path was taken. So much of

what you say is fascinating. I think people around the world would

think carefully about the phrases you are using. You hoped you were

making a difference, you were getting the story. As you look back

now, eight weeks later, do you think you made a difference was

that I think we did. I hope we did. What was happening before -

unfortunately, we wait for an atrocity. Sadly, with Marie Colvin

dying and my situation, the situation in that city hopefully

took things to another level of awareness. In at tragic way, with

Marie Colvin, because she was so well known and well respected. Her

I have attempted to keep that light shining. I would like to dig into

your analysis of what is happening in Syria today because you have

connections and contacts. To finish with this story that you have been

through in the last few weeks - your luck ran out on February 22nd.

That is when the direct fire landed on the house you were using as a

media safe house. Marie Colvin was killed instantly? Yes. We took

three hits on the house. It was the fourth Shell where the back wall

fell in, I think one of the upper walls were hit and it was chaos.

Blackness. Concrete dust. Many injuries. Other people were killed.

Other wounded journalists. Syrians as well. Shrapnel and broken bones.

Our ran -- our Trans later had his arm snapped. The two met

journalists I was with died instantly, there is no doubt about

that. I caught the edge of the blast. You say you feel the need to

ask I ask

ask you one more question - Ma Colvin was dead and you were in a

bad situation, wounded in the lake. You needed to get out but you were

stuck there for several more days. out, safe passage for you to leave

that terrible situation and you refused to take it.

name name names, but when the Red

Crescent came to the House the Free Syrian Army were naturally

they had been allowed in. a

a lot of commotion. Eventually one of the people from the Red Crescent

entered the room that the four journalists were in and he said "if

you want my advice you will wait for at the International Red Cross

and the diplomatic presence. I have been were ordered by my government

to enter over to security forces at the gates of the city. If you want

my advice, you will wait for the Red Cross".put

you in a difficult situation. I suppose the only problem with the

decision you talk is that the Red Cross were not coming - in the end,

you were smuggled out by helpers and activis

alongside you. In the cause of that, by not taking the Red Crescent

option, we or so Syrian people who were

helping, not just you, but the number of wounded people to get out,

were killed in that dangerous operation. That must be difficult.

That is very difficult. I don't think there is a day that goes by

we don't think of those people. I out, nobody was killed, but the

tunnel was attacked. I think this goes back to the heart of what we

do and why just people - casual people - these

were people we had a relationship with. They took us in, they fed us.

They understand, because of their situation. They understand the need

to get the story out from a Western journalist. It is difficult, no

doubt. I don't sit and think"if we had an air ambulance, people would

be alive ". People understand we are risking a lot by going in. We

knew the people who took us-mac out. They were not just individuals.

telling ambulance". That was long before an

ambulance arrived. It's difficult, from

from local them They're doing video journalism,

photography. In a way, by associating with people like you

enormous da enormous danger. I wondered if,

sometimes, you felt that your I am sure prisons did make it worse.

house house was attacked. It is very

difficult for people on the outside to see the perspective that we had.

These people were taking us through the backstreets. If we told them

that we were putting them in danger they would have laughed. Another

Syrian military. It is possible he is undergoing a very difficult

situation. It feels strange to be war special ones are made. Are you

observer? Absolutely. But I could not exactly come in and ask the

Syrian army if I could watch them at shelling Baba Amr. But you have

to stay impartial. It is quite easy to stay impartial. I am a

photographer. I've put up what I saw and I photographed that. Can

you look at a picture of a day that child and asked if that is

impartial journalism? Maybe if I had taken it from a different angle,

were some very striking things written after Euro Colley died. --

your colleagues. Someone said that they were troubled by the amount of

coverage given to what had happened to Western journalists. He said

there was something faintly colonialisting.

We have bee to the war correspondent being a hero that

they have become more important than the people they report on. Do

you agree on him a? I agree with him. I wish it did not happen. I

would much rather talk about the women and children sitting under

mortar fire mortar firech of what they suffered. I have a small

level of suffering in comparison. I understand the mediathe media

more or safe headlines. But I do not think that is good. Because you

have spent a long time observing the Free Syrian Army, do you

believe they are a credible and coherent fomme I

spoke to a senior figure inside the Syrian National Council. He said

that if only more resources could go to these people they would be

able to get rid of the Assad regime. Do you believe that? Were

artistically even if it could be developed. -- logistically. As an

armed force in Homs they worked To take that on to the scale needed

to take dowime would be incredibly difficult. They would

They are very localised. Whereas in Libya the heavy weaponry was in --

available. And from what you have seen of the civilian population and

that President Assad can impose his will and authority on Syria? No. I

think the genie is out of the bottle. Regardless of the strength

these people would rather die than go back. There is a long tire

before an end game is reached in The regime is holding on in the

only way they can. They cannot go back. I also want to reflect a

little bit more on your profession. Reporting. It seems to me that

have more a have more and more of the material

we are consuming internationally coming from young, local people who

are not trained journalists. They are activists with a cause. He

worked alongside them. You have spoken very highly of them. But

what is it doing to journalism? were being presented with the

videos of what happens. We took these videos and checked them.

were fake. They were told that that was what was happeni

was what was happening. I have seen the work of a courageous young man,

a Syrian a Syrian that conflict area who has admitted that

in one particular shot he a smoke

smoke and make more dramatic. It is rely

rely on everything we are currently seeing. We cannot simply. That is

why these videos cannot be verified. That is where the gate weakened.

There is al There is aluse for doubt. -- they get weekend. And that is

why there will always be people like you. We have to be able to

come out and make sense of what we are seeing. People still have to go

in and do it on those level. Would you be prepared to testify before

any sort of International Criminal Court or tribunal if President

Assad and some of his people were ever brought to a tribunal? I would

civilian civilian homes being destroyed, yes.

Even if the reporters Without borders organisation said that if

journalists in war zone are now seen as aids to international call-

ups, the job will become almost impossible. To the job is almost

impossible anyway. Journalists are so targeted. It is changing. The

days of being able to go up to roadsides are long gone.

Journalists are watched. brilliant war photographer before

Europe Day said it at the end of his career he had had enough. He

said he wanted to photograph landscapes and flowers. I am

sentencing myself to peace. Are you ready to sentence yourself to

peace? I am not quite ready. you going to go back to convict?

That is what is it me through this. is what I t