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held in prison for a day longer. Now it is time for HARDtalk. | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
Welcome to Margate, a traditional English seaside town, which is home | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
to the turn up contemporary art gallery. My guest today is Tracey | :00:20. | :00:26. | |
Emin. She was raised in Margate and who has become an artist of | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
international renown. She has an exhibition currently on in her old | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
home town. Her work is always deeply personal. She has made an | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
extraordinary journey from Wilde used to peeler of the British | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
cultural establishment. But just how blurred has the line being | :00:46. | :00:56. | |
:00:56. | :01:18. | ||
between her art and her life? Tracey Emin, welcome to heart talk. | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
This is a very special exhibition for you. It is a homecoming. You | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
put this on in the town that you were raised in as a teenager. I | :01:26. | :01:34. | |
just wonder how much of the young Tracey Emin you feel is still in | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
you? The whole show is about the fact that there is hardly any young | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
Tracy a man in me any more, I'm nearly 50. The girl is never coming | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
back. She lay down deep beneath the sea, it is the end of everything | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
has been a goal. The understanding as an artist, I have maybe got 30 | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
years left of work, and I need to prioritise and see what is | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
important to me. In the show, obviously, art is important to me. | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
:02:13. | :02:19. | ||
And this is a different kind of exhibition. How long has it taken | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
for you to disconnect yourself from your past? Has it been a difficult | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
process? I think that being an artist and using my memory for my | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
work, I do not want to disconnect myself from my past completely, but | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
I would like to see it from a different perspective. I would like | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
to see it from the perspective of being an adult. I do not want to be | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
a screaming adolescent girl when I nearly 50. I want to get some | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
balance. But I don't want to be really boring. I want to develop. | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
And push things further. I think that in the show, I have done bad. | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
Does that process of maturing and changing, does it mean that you | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
overcome a lot of the pain and the anger that seemed to be in your | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
early work, and seemed to reflect so much of what happened to you as | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
a young woman in Margate and elsewhere. I think that I'm | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
actually lucky that I experienced so many things. I am a very | :03:19. | :03:26. | |
passionate person. I have deeper emotions. Some of my friends say | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
that I have containment issues. I'm constantly telling the truth. I am | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
always saying things that you should not say. But I am making | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
work about things that are a closed subject matter for a lot of people. | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
The show is about understanding that there is a different kind of | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
world. I always thought that love was about desire, being with | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
someone and holding them. But that is not necessary. But it can take | :03:54. | :04:03. | |
the form of lots of different guises. So it is blue embroidery, | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
it is about experiencing it in a different way. I have never done | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
that before. Maybe I did not understand love at all, all of my | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
life. Maybe I have been running after the wrong things, or | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
misunderstanding it. By working in developing these ideas, it helps me | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
understand how I want my future to be. It is not just about art, in he | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
is about leaving. You talk about love, that is | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
interesting. A lot of people will associate your name a week very | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
graphic art, not just drawing, but installation art and all sorts of | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
different presentations which alluded to terrible abuse that you | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
suffered. And also the way in which sex, for a time in your life, | :04:51. | :04:58. | |
seemed to be very Loveless. Correct me if I am wrong. I wonder if that | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
is your attitude to sex, has that changed? | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
As I said, I am really 50, any woman watching this will know | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
exactly what I'm talking about. I don't have sex any more. It is gone, | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
it is a closed subject. It might come back, who knows. But at the | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
moment, I'm interested in love and feelings and emotions and other | :05:20. | :05:26. | |
things. And something that is not dependent upon last and desire. I | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
am free from that. And I want to work with all of the other motion | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
has. Are you tired of talking about the | :05:32. | :05:42. | |
:05:42. | :05:43. | ||
stuff that we -- was so explicit, in your earlier work? The failed | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
relationships, the abuse that he suffered when you were very young? | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
I don't have failed relationships any more, because I do not have | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
relationships. My priority at my moment is my work. And about how I | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
can develop it and what I can do. I still have all of those subject | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
matters that our work with and I still work with them, but maybe in | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
a more different way, or maybe I have exhausted doing it in one way, | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
this squealing adolescent girl, maybe she does not have it any more | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
energy. Maybe I need to sit down and think, what have I got, what | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
can I work with? I can work with my hands and my knowledge and my love | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
of art history. When you talk about the screamer | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
stuff,r stuff, I wonder how you feel about | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
it? Do you look back and think, one of the most famous works, my bed, | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
which was the disabled bed, which whole of the signs of sexual | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
relationships, it had the mess around the bed, it was so personal | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
and so brutal and so on us, Kenya later that any more, is it | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
difficult? Occasionally when it is shown, a few years ago in a number | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
I had a 20-year retrospective and I had to keep reinstalling the bed, | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
and every time I did it, every time I had to take a deep breath, | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
because it was like really throwing myself back into the past, into a | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
place which I would never be now. I would never have a bed like that. I | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
can't even believe that I lived like that. But it was part of me | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
and I accept that. I don't have any regrets about anything that I have | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
done. It was a seminal piece of art that a lot of people recognise and | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
identify a week, so I'm really pleased with it. | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
The in terms of technique, I find it very interesting. You had a | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
recent major retrospective at the Hayward Gallery. There were rooms | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
in the gallery that you could look through and look at so many | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
different objects taken from your own life, whether your bathroom or | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
your bedroom or whatever. There was a sense in which I felt at times | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
that it was almost going through a Tracey Eni Museum as much as an art | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
gallery. The subject on display constantly, was you. When I was | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
young there, I made work that was so close to me, it touched me. | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
And in the beginning, a lot of people did not see it as being art. | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
They could not relate to it as art. And still, people have a lot of | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
difficulty with those works. But for me, it was just me making | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
something with the reality of the subject. Instead of making a | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
sculpture of it, I just used the real thing. To do that, it meant | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
that I had to separate it from my mind. I had to take it out of the | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
environment and put it into a different space. I had to create it | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
and say, this is art. I had to defend it and justified it to the | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
end. Two the day I die, I will still have to have arguments about | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
taxi driver -- with taxi drivers about the bed. Some people must say, | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
it is interesting, it is simply not art. But a lot of people don't | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
understand I spent seven years at art school. I did not go through | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
all of those things and become this, but nothing. | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
Is there anything, that through your artistic Rea, you have always | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
regarded as off-limits? Because so much of your life is out there, in | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
your art, is there anything that you have not been able to touch. | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
Lots of things. What? Like other people's lives, for example. When I | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
was younger, I made a lot of what about my family. But then nobody | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
knew why was, so it was OK for me to do that. I never had exhibitions, | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
it was fine. Now I have made of Asians, I censor myself. I would | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
never make a tent with the names of everybody that I ever slept with. I | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
can't believe I ever did that. But nobody was interested in what are | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
was doing, so it was time for me -- fine for me to do with it. I did | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
not know what it would represent for other people. One more point on | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
the past before I want to discuss what you are working on now, you | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
said that you have had to live with people saying, it is not art, for | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
so long. That does include critics. One of the most senior critics in | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
the UK, Bryan Steel, I just want to quote you one thing that he wrote | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
about you, because it may be sums up one field of criticism, he said | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
- being Tracey Emin, is Tracey Emin's core activity. She barks, | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
look at me, look at me, all the time. She is like some sort of | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
fraudulent medieval Margaret relics. She puts on a show these trivial | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
keepsakes of herself. When you get that sort of savage criticism, how | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
deep does it could you? Typing that he is a very entertaining writer. | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
He really does not like contemporary art. I don't know how | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
much he likes women. He never writes nicely about women, in any | :10:50. | :10:58. | |
circumstance. He also reduce cars. He is a jack of many traits. I | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
would not take what he says too seriously. I think there is little | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
bit of envy. He had a bit of jealousy of my lifestyle. Last year, | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
he became one of many two women to be appointed professors of drawing | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
at the Royal Academy. The only woman. The NRA is now a professor | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
of painting. We are the only professors in the whole history of | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
the Royal Academy. More than 250 years. Do you think that it is a | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
very gender unequal Business, the make King of art? Definitely, but | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
it has changed a lot since the Second World War. One of the big | :11:37. | :11:45. | |
problems is, when women come to the front lot more, that was in the 70s. | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
They used lots of throwaway materials that would not stand the | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
test of time. Because even if they were really great artists, museums | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
would not buy their work, because it would not survive. Many use | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
heavy waited materials. But men peak when they are in their 40s. | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
One big dined peak. And then they usually go down. Women, over 40, | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
they just keep going on and on and getting better and better and it is | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
like that with sex. Women keep coming, mangers ejaculate once. And | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
that is how it is with art. But we don't have much proof of this. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Because men don't like to talk about this subject. It is only in | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
the last 30 years that women have become art historians, museum | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
directors and curators. The art world is not just artists, it is | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
about the whole art world that pushes this forward. When you look | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
at your career, you have had great success, critical success and | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
commercial success. Kenya. Two times in your career when you feel | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
that your gender has worked against you, that it has been a real | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
problem for you? No, not me. I was quite lucky. When | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
I first went to art school, I had an interview and they asked me what | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
I put about feminism, and a set, I don't. I said I don't think about | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
it, I just get on with a -- with what I have to do. I was on the | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
panel of a women's forum at the Tate and the subject of children | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
came up. For a number of women, they stop making work for a number | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
of years to have their families. It is to do with any career own | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
profession. A lot of women, they want to be at the top of their | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
career, for their own personal trajectory and journey, and that is | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
very difficult if you have to take a family with you. It is | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
extraordinarily difficult. That leads me to a quote that I was very | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
struck by. I was reading about the Austrian artist, who does a lot of | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
painting of human form. She has won a lot of awards. She is now in a | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
90s and she said this - I do not understand young women who want to | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
make art and have a big family. She said, don't think it is possible to | :14:03. | :14:13. | |
This woman was 90. People sit at it's quite a controversial thing | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
but many women achoo and they include artists but not great | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
artists. That's the difference. It is not Picasso or and it will all. | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
They are not kick-ins. Do you think it you had children you would move | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
had been the Overture was a would not have been an artist I think | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
Woodstock I would probably be delayed. It was good going to | :14:38. | :14:46. | |
happen. My life in my creativity is something else and it's about me | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
inventing things and creating things and being an artist and not | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
a minute during mother. It's about events and art which exist in the | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
world. That is what I am good at. Oh No! Again, going back to some of | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
the trauma you have been through in your life, you had an abortion, he | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
found that very tough. Is it part of your art that has been about | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
that since of Rick rate and loss? It was about questioning abortion. | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
It was not pro-choice all pro-life but about a woman going through | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
that experience. That really helped a lot of women whether or not a la. | :15:33. | :15:41. | |
I identified with me. Its members closed subjects. People get up in | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
the morning and go to work and at an abortion in the afternoon in go | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
back to what next day without telling anyone because they feel | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
more of it and push him. If they have a sense of regret her not in a | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
position to tell them because nobody would be sympathetic. At the | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
UN what you will feel like until the be a bit? No-one wants to have | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
an abortion. Choice situation at the time feeling what you have to | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
do to survive all but Fullwood for what it reason. No-one ever wants | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
to have an abortion. The at me ask you about money. Its key you have a | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
brilliant entrepreneurial flair. You have been commercially | :16:24. | :16:32. | |
successful. Making a lot money, and that's dive all your creativity? | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
infinitely not. When you had not got the money to pay and gas bill, | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
or electricity, and you only have enough money for one. I had a very | :16:44. | :16:52. | |
poor upbringing as a child. I was very called a lot. Ice water and | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
more are still poor would never be called. What really would stop her | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
Mini occasions, be cause theories so to hide my work, he wants the | :17:03. | :17:13. | |
:17:13. | :17:17. | ||
one full eye clinic Collins at, awesome All York-New work I'll to | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
you about quilts. Before the recession one of the galleries said | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
he would be a big recession coming. We had in people that would what | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
you will will and blankets. Start making more blankets balls stop I | :17:34. | :17:43. | |
was building must use it. I set myself a light rather than make a | :17:43. | :17:51. | |
blanket. Harvey it off in the opposite direction. I was like | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
sulking child. On that subject, is it true about that terrible for her | :17:57. | :18:05. | |
in the warehouse and one or it most famous works which you referred to | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
about everybody you ever slept with, at got destroyed. Did the owner of | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
that work or for you are vast amount of money to recreate it? | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
They was the chance of �1 million to recreate it but I could not | :18:22. | :18:29. | |
possibly recreate something at me in my small in water them. It took | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
me six months. It was my idea of all my old clothes and nightdresses. | :18:35. | :18:43. | |
Could not recreate that. All of that smacks of what you are present | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
or to us. It's have committed you. It was a unique creation. You set | :18:51. | :18:58. | |
up shop and went international. I went online. You can buy a big cups, | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
months, balls, teachers and handbags. You want it in yourself | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
into a wholly proper will brand. which the little shop did not make | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
such a big profit. I am fully for people in the shop stop with us at | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
the wheel full of artistic integrity? It means people can buy | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
things directly from me and from a studio. I have a good commercial | :19:26. | :19:34. | |
hit. They were no jobs will money back in the 80s and 90s it was very | :19:34. | :19:43. | |
difficult. He won the galleries for collectors. Has changed in the last | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
30 years, it's the normal and fantastic. It does mean again in | :19:48. | :19:57. | |
Funes all where you have borne in your career, it's a raw Rebel yell | :19:57. | :20:05. | |
that you unknown full. It's there a bit since then you are woven into | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
the Establishment. You have commissioned by for Mitchell | :20:10. | :20:17. | |
Torrance to sketch the Queen to mark Jubilee. I met the Queen here. | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
I met her twice. It's not about the establishment. I've been around for | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
20 years and I am not going away and the establishment is growing | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
with us, it's the symbiotic thing. There is not a war going on. I am | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
not a social adolescent punks speaking at everybody. I am nearly | :20:39. | :20:47. | |
50 and I am taking seriously. I'm an artist. I'm respected. I enjoyed | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
it. There is nothing wrong with that and I will not be cynical | :20:52. | :20:59. | |
about things in my life, I want the best of every situation. It's not | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
about the establishment. The Prime Minister is younger than me. Family | :21:03. | :21:11. | |
enough, he introduced the idea. -- finally enough. You have taken some | :21:11. | :21:18. | |
flak. Some say you have forgotten where you have come from. You were | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
very public but voting for David Cameron. You support the | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
Conservatives. You walk lower taxation. That has robbed a lot of | :21:26. | :21:34. | |
people up the wrong way. I think they have forgiven me we're all | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
stop this boroughs those comments, had not got me where I have come | :21:38. | :21:47. | |
well. I have a brand new gallery only built last year. I am fighting | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
for there is and what is to happen in every seaside town. The Tory | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
government as good appreciation of bit parts. But they have cut the | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
art budget. Also in that user and other artistic endeavours to say | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
their particular field has been really badly damaged by the Tory | :22:08. | :22:18. | |
:22:18. | :22:20. | ||
cuts. Labour made some chronic cuts also. None more so than the Tories. | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
There's no money. It is no money anywhere in the world. We eat up | :22:26. | :22:36. | |
:22:36. | :22:38. | ||
almost out of time but back tee all work and - you will work, and the | :22:38. | :22:46. | |
way you admit you. What is next for you? You say that women peak much | :22:46. | :22:56. | |
later. I have an exhibition in Argentina, on a series, and then in | :22:56. | :23:05. | |
Rome, -- when a series, New York, Miami, and in a new space and that | :23:05. | :23:15. | |
:23:15. | :23:15. | ||
takes me up to 2014, I'm very busy. That is what I am doing. You had | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
written in and neon sign or something right and you said I do | :23:18. | :23:25. | |
not expect to be a mother but I do expect to do him. I wonder it we're | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
supposed to win to put that in a bleak way? Knitted way? Is it make | :23:31. | :23:41. | |
:23:41. | :23:42. | ||
it? It is not negative. Its state of the fact. Not adding up family | :23:42. | :23:51. | |
puts you in a different position. After media reasonable. What I do | :23:51. | :23:56. |